Flotsam

[Gordie]

Fighton,

So many of us experience this. It is exhausting at time so as others have said, just try to be steady and at peace whether he us distancing or pursuing. My w basically ignored me all weekend and then wanted to be all cuddly yesterday.

[skyhigh]

Don't put too much hope into those tiny "warm ups", Job described it so well, I will add also, since you have been distancing/detaching yourself so well lately this could be just a tentative to be nice just to see how you can react to some positive attention from his part, another weird way to his influence/power on you, and since it didn't work, it left him "puzzled". Your actual way to relate to him is so different from what it used to be, you are not playing into his PA game anymore and you are not trying to "seduce" him either. He must me wondering what's going on with you. You became "indifferent" (detach) to him, you are not flattering his ego or neither pursuing him.

Also keep in mind, an affair is based on fantasy (la la land) so the the longer it's going on, the least it's possible to sustain it without having to face some reality at one point, usually the OW plays it very "cool, loving, not demanding at the beginning" then she starts to make demands.

Demands mean you HAVE to make a CHOICE based on reality, until now the choices made were "justified" in a very twisted manner based on the behavior/reactions of the LBS but when you are not "reacting" anymore, choice is left to them only without anybody to blame, it's much more difficult... So the least "demanding or reactive you are" AKA being detached, it starts to show off as a positive side in regard of the nagging OW. You become the "easy going" and she is now the "annoying".

I know it's kind of a long twisted explanation, but MLC is a twisted journey.

[FightOn]

Thank you everyone for your insight.

Gordie, you are so right. It is exhausting. I have to constantly remind myself that he is in MLC and this is just a hit and run. As Skyhigh said, I can't get my hopes up. It is so easy to do. It's hard not to attach something more meaningful to the change in behavior. But that is me projecting. And I do know better.

I feel like a fool because I let him draw me in a little this morning and it didn't end well for me. I brought up an issue about S that I (and his caregiver at daycare) have noticed recently regarding an undesirable behavior. S has been starting to tattle on other children when he seems them breaking minor rules (running in areas they should be walking, taking toys from each other, using toys inappropriately). When I spoke with his caregiver she said she has noticed it and has tried not to make a big deal out of it, but wants to curtail the behavior. So do I.

This morning I mentioned it to H. I did so in a joking manner referring to S as a "snitch." I described the behavior and mentioned that the caregiver at school also noticed the behavior. I also said I would like to notice when he does it and discourage it as I don't see this as a positive behavior. H became combative. He wasn't raising his voice, but was very argumentative. He said things like "well, what does tattle tale even mean," "when does he do this," "why is this an issue," "how do we know if this isn't just normal 2 year old behavior." He also said, why are you (meaning me) making a big deal out of it. Ugh.

I am so frustrated with H and did start to feel defensive. I felt criticized and attacked. I did my best to keep a lid on my frustration and tried to let him know that I am not making a federal case out of this issue, but merely want to keep an eye on it to keep it from getting worse. However, I don't think I did as good of a job as I could have b/c I felt defensive. I also allowed him to turn the focus of the conversation onto me, rather than S and how we should handle this.

I am a little perplexed as to why he turned this around onto me. I don't understand that behavior and the reasoning for it.

I am disappointed in myself for not recognizing what he was doing as it was happening. I allowed myself to become defensive and fell into his "trap."

[As an aside, what I really wanted to tell him was I am sorry you don't spend enough time with S to see how he behaves with other children. It's unfortunate that you don't have any interest in really getting to know S and you feel the need to turn things around on other people.]

Now that I just wrote that I am wondering if he turned it around on me because he felt defensive because he hasn't noticed this behavior?

I am also frustrated over this because all it does it make me not want to talk to H about anything. What is the point? He seems to just want to be combative and a contrarian. Since he is in this state, it all just seems pointless as it goes absolutely nowhere. He lacks insight and hasn't changed one bit. I am saying in my head "why bother?"

Thoughts? Suggestions?

[OwnIt]

Fight, my H cannot handle it when I say anything about the children not doing well, having a problem, etc. because I believe he thinks I am accusing him and his leaving of being the source of these issues. I only tell him things that are huge and that I think could come out in a custody battle. For what you are talking about, I would not mention that stuff to him. He felt attacked in some way and since he isn't when S when this stuff happens he really doesn't need to be there to reinforce the behavior. If you do have to tell him something "big" do so in a factual and straight-forward manner. Also, had you broached this as the caregiver is concerned about this behavior and wants us to do something about it, you are not making yourself the accuser and the source of the fingerpointing to him. Remember, in this state they cannot handle criticism, blame, or accountability of any kind.

[FightOn]

Hi OwnIt.

I wouldn't be surprised if my H had the same thoughts your H did re the belief that a comment about the children not doing well equates to an accusation. I also think he sees it, whether consciously or unconsciously, as an opportunity to provoke me. It was odd as he kept asking "what does that mean . . . what do you mean by 'tattling' . . . how is this a problem." He also turned it around on me and kept saying, "well, I would have asked this that and the other thing . . ."

It would be nice to be able to have a normal conversation. It would be nice to be able to parent with someone who sees the value is talking about issues in a reasonable manner without criticizing and demeaning the other parent.

What he doesn't see, know, understand, or get is that all this does is cause me to lock up. I don't want to talk to him about anything anymore. But that is not the stance I want to take.

I think this is all about my expectations. I expected to have a normal civil discussion. Now. after some reflection, I realize this is a ridiculous expectation!!!! Perhaps the better approach from here on out is to state what the issue is without any expectation of a discussion or resolution with him and then just walk away.

What is becoming clearer and clearer by the day is H's inability or lack of motivation to do any work. I keep looking at him and seeing a "normal" person. But he's not. He doesn't have a scarlet A on his shirt, he doesn't have a brand across his forehead proclaiming his scrambled eggs, Swiss cheese MLC brain so I have moments where I think he's normal.

I am really getting tired of this nonsense. I am tired of putting in all this effort and work toward trying to relate to him better. It's good practice, and while I certainly need it, it is becoming an exercise in futility and the harm to my emotional health is exceeding any potential gains. It is hard for me to believe that one person in a relationship can really make a difference because I don't think I am seeing any.

Aside from him not serving me with the Petition for Divorce, yet, there have no long term or consistent gains; perhaps that is a gain and I should look at it that way. It just doesn't feel like one. The bottom line is I think I need to see some progress in order to have any motivation to continue with him. At some point I have to excise the gangrenous relationships that weigh me down.

And I need to seriously think about this. Part of me wants to go ahead and file an Answer to the Petition without being served and get this party started and give him what he thinks he wants. Another part of me, perhaps the childish side, says, no, if he wants it, he will have to put in the work. The more I think about this the more I realize that if I take option B, I will have to come up with a better plan to deal with him in order to maintain my sanity. The only plan I can think of is further detachment. An "I'm done, whatever" attitude.

[FightOn]

Hi All!

Still not much to report. Same old, same old.

Yesterday, we returned from H's nephew's wedding. The ceremony was nice (but long) and the reception was fun. Well, as much fun as it could be with a toddler.

The trip was uneventful save for several remarks about how old H is getting. More remarks about how S will have to push him around in a wheelchair. The remarks had seemingly died down for a while, but they have resumed lately.

H was nice to me during the trip, but not talkative. In typical fashion, he appeared like father of the year in front of his family. Volunteering to change dirty diapers, feeding S, swimming with him in the hotel pool. It was actually a nice little break for me, but nauseating to see how over the top he was being. This past four days H spent more time with S than he has in an entire month. How sad for S.

On the 9th we had an argument over the phone. He called me to announce he was leaving for the other coast for two weeks in August for some training. At least that is what he is telling me. No way to know the truth with him anymore. I couldn't resist baiting him a little bit by asking whether he was "telling me" or "asking me" if the dates would work for me. He stammered and didn't know what to say. Then, in typical fashion, turned it around on me and claims that I just go off and do whatever and don't tell him in advance.

He is such a master at turning things around. I fell down the rabbit hole a little bit and said I was just following his lead.

I need to detach even more. I roll along and mostly ignore most of his antics, but then the little things do start to add up and it ends up in a confrontation of some kind that ends up going nowhere.

All along the way, I will journal my complaints and sometimes air them to my close friends. They still find a way to build and get to me. My therapist has tried to encourage me to talk to H. Lol! He tells me I should be the person I want to be with H.

I'm not certain my therapist understands. Maybe I don't understand? It seems to me that trying to have a logical discussion with an MLC'er in full blown limerence is nearly impossible. To expect a resolution of the issue is an exercise in futility. It is such a recurring theme with H, I cannot help but wonder if it is me?

[OwnIt]

Fight,

Sadly most therapists don't believe in MLC. I think you know where the discussion is likely to lead were you to have it. All you can do at this point is wait it out, work on yourself, and try to keep things calm for your S. Limerence does come to an end and you can see what you have at that point.

Journaling is helpful. Mine has been in a lot more contact while with OW2 and has been much nicer. Not sure why.

[FightOn]

So I have been served.

What is my next DB move?

[25yearsmlc]

So I have been served.

What is my next DB move?

DB says to protect yourself so the first thing to do, is see a L.

Not to speed up the divorce or make things ugly, but to see if you can drag your feet or what your options are

and protect yourself.

[skyhigh]

Interview a few lawyers to find the right one to you, ask around you for references.
Don't give your WH any potential information about your next moves also he might try to be "nice" (let's be friends...), just to appeal to your emotions to get something that he knows is not in your best interest. Don't be fooled! When they file it means they are ready and organize already and thought about all their moves.

Document everything, stay polite but distant!
Separate your phone account if it's to your advantage so he doesn't know who you are calling.
Change your passwords put a password on your computer/iPad... check if he put any software in it.
Call the bank and make the necessary changes if you gave him any power of attorney or administrative rights.
Take pictures of everything you have, he may or not remove items from the home when he will move with or without your approval.

Ask for a temporary alimony and a child custody orders if you need them. Show him that you are ready to stand up for your rights and not going to accept whatever bones he will give you to chew on it. He might think he still can manipulate you by appealing to your feelings (be ready for some surprising affectionate moves...).

Copy any legal documents (retirements, accounts, investment funds...) you can have, follow the money trails, sadly from my experience (a few friends), before filing the H hid money somewhere.
Remember also a marriage is a financial partnership so if he spends money on the OW, you are entitled to be reimbursed 50% of it (that's what my lawyer told me...).

Doing all of that doesn't mean you want a divorce it means only that you are protecting yourself. Knowledge is power. The more knowledge you have the better you will be have to navigate the months ahead of you.

Limerence and its fantasy land don't do very well with obstacles, so slowing down the process in a very clever manner can be an advantage for you.

Tell him that you are not going to share his version why you are separating with others, since he filed you are now free of expressing your side. MLCer don't like to be seen as the bad guy, they have a high opinion of themselves.

You might want to expose him and his affair partner if he has one... but only if you have proof, don't do a full exposure but a targeted one, just to show him that he is not fooling you anymore, that you are way smarter than he thinks. I did that... they hated it. It disrupted their la la land, being seen as a home wrecker or a cheating husband is never good for your own image in regard of others. It's up to you, each situation is different but I noticed that exposure is a way to shake the situation, it brings the secret relationship to light and it removes some of its "excitement", by forcing them to deal with actual facts and making decisions.

Something not to do, begging, crying, trying to negotiate.
Stay detached, keep your eyes open, trust your guts and avoid any confrontation or to send him anything he can use against you to try to picture you as unstable.