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#2739592 - 04/19/17 01:06 PM Re: Flotsam [Re: FightOn]
CaliGuy Offline
Member

Registered: 07/29/14
Posts: 2450
Loc: California US
Originally Posted By: FightOn
So, should I even point this out to him in some way? Is it worth it? Part of me does want to show him the reality of what this will be like, but I just don't know if me saying anything would be worth it or would even matter. I would want to tell him something along the lines you can do what you want in your house, and I will do what I want in mine. Since you fired me, there is no need to collaborate on these types of issues.


Nope .... there are 2 things that pop into my head as I read this.

1st- Understand there is co-parenting, and co-parenting with a MLCr, these are 2 VASTLY different things and you should have a different approach. You are spot on in the parallel parenting approach/concept, there will be a different set of rules in his place Vs yours. Mine is similar, my place is a safe house and less rigid ... my S feels free to express his thoughts and feelings and with her its chore after chore ... her house her rules. I understood long ago I can not do anything to change this, my S has adapted to this and has done well but there is no question whom he prefers to be with ... again .. not my circus nor my battles. Funny thing is he helps without asking and does more at 'our' place than he does with her ... not right or wrong but we do have different parenting styles.

2nd ... the statement "Part of me does want to show him the reality of what this will be like". Hopefully me just pulling it out will allow you to see this for what it is ... its that expectation filled statement .. if I just show him the error of his ways he might snap out of MLC and start behaving better .... MLCrs do not like to be called out on anything, nothing but a conflict will come of this and I can about bet my check he is not going to see it your way ... its all about him at this point and he has a fantasy built up in his head about how its going to be and you will not be able to tell him differently ... sadly they have to live it for a bit before doubt sets in. So yeah ... nothing you say/do will matter in this so why add stress to the issue?
_________________________
M: 44
W: 44
M16 T26-S8
BD Sept13




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#2739617 - 04/19/17 02:46 PM Re: Flotsam [Re: CaliGuy]
SBJ Offline
Member

Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 652
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: CaliGuy
... sadly they have to live it for a bit before doubt sets in. So yeah ... nothing you say/do will matter in this so why add stress to the issue?


Cali, I needed to re-hear that today...I'm glad that I saw you posted to FightOn. Sorry for hijacking, but I am agreeing more and more.

They have to complete their own journey, even if it leaves a path of destruction in their wake.
_________________________
Me 46 W43
T25 M22
S19 D14 S10
W had EA Apr-Jul 2016
Dropped Bomb 7/9/16
ILYBINILWYA
HER DIVORCE IS FINAL...8/18/17
Dropping the rope to SURVIVE & THRIVE!!!

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#2739619 - 04/19/17 02:53 PM Re: Flotsam [Re: SBJ]
job Offline

Member

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 24285
Loc: Maryland
Cali did a very nice job of explaining co-parenting w/a MLCer and also showing them the "error of their ways".

I would continue as you have been and when he moves out, he'll quickly learn that it's not as easy as he thought it would be.

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#2739772 - 04/20/17 11:11 AM Re: Flotsam [Re: job]
FightOn Offline
Member

Registered: 09/26/16
Posts: 213
Cali, Coly, SBJ, and Job - thank you! I am going through a lot right now and appreciate all the feedback and support. I don't know where I would be without this place and all of you.

Cali, you are so right about the expectation aspect of my statement. I didn't see it. Thank you for pointing that out to me. I would have expected the statement to have an impact, however small. And I know better. I know I should not no expectations and I know that there is nothing I can do to change his mind. Knowing that, there would be no other point to make that statement. So why make it.

I had a therapy session yesterday and my therapist encouraged me to talk to H about his comments about the foods I choose to feed S (i.e., H's obsession about sugar). The therapist suggested that my reluctance perhaps stemmed from fear that originates from my childhood issues. Unfortunately, I don't see it this way.

The therapist agreed that it will probably go nowhere, but it would be good practice for me AND it would make me feel better for at least trying.

I'm tired of trying.

The way I see it is this is MLC. Anything I say will be twisted around or he will use it to try to provoke an argument or worse, he will agree, but then turn around and still do the same thing which will only compound my frustration. This thought process may be counterproductive and it may involve mind reading on my part, but I really don't see any point in interacting with H anymore that is minimally necessary.

I have been able to step back and watch him. He isn't yelling, screaming, cursing, calling me dirty names, throwing things, or being physically abusive. None of that is happening. It is much more sinister than that. It's the constant passive aggressiveness, the talking through S to get to me, the veiled jibes about this or that, the contrarian viewpoints.

There have been points along this journey where I have sincerely doubted whether something was really amiss with H. Some of the things he was doing did not seem to fit MLC. I believed the cause of all this was solely me and my childhood issues. I don't know if the EMDR therapy is working or perhaps if his recent behavior has just gotten too much or what, but I don't see it that way anymore. How he has behaved this last week has been a clear indication to me he has issues too.

The sad part of this is I feel S is starting to sense something is amiss. He is becoming more clingy; he won't leave my side. This morning when I dropped him off at daycare was one of the worse mornings we have ever have. Normally, he is very happy and doesn't mind being there. Today was a different story. Ugh. Perhaps he senses something in the way H is talking? Perhaps he sense something in me as well?

I am utterly baffled at the hostility and anger he has directed my way. I just can't understand it. He is the one who cheated, who quit and wants out. He is the one who filed. Yet he is so angry at me. Shouldn't it be the other way around?

Have any of you reached that point where you just don't want to talk to them anymore because you feel you know exactly where it will go?

Perhaps I am being lazy and taking the easy way out. Maybe. I also think I feel like I am tired of his shenanigans.

Maybe you can stick a fork in me because I am done?

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#2739777 - 04/20/17 11:48 AM Re: Flotsam [Re: FightOn]
job Offline

Member

Registered: 01/16/00
Posts: 24285
Loc: Maryland
I do believe that people do get to a point where it's just easier to detach and leave the MLCers to their own drama. When I was going through this, I got to the point that I actually wished he were dead because he was like a bad penny, i.e., popping up when I least expected it, spewing and angry all of the time.

I know exactly what you are saying and trust me, sometimes it's best not to have anything to deal w/them, much less talk to them. Have you visited HaWho's threads? You might want to go back and read her earlier ones because her h has issues with the food she cooks and still does. You might find some valuable info in her threads that could help you.

Just remember...it's not you...it's him.

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#2739778 - 04/20/17 11:50 AM Re: Flotsam [Re: FightOn]
Cristy Offline
Member

Registered: 04/08/14
Posts: 1121
Originally Posted By: FightOn
I am utterly baffled at the hostility and anger he has directed my way. I just can't understand it. He is the one who cheated, who quit and wants out. He is the one who filed. Yet he is so angry at me. Shouldn't it be the other way around?

Have any of you reached that point where you just don't want to talk to them anymore because you feel you know exactly where it will go?

Perhaps I am being lazy and taking the easy way out. Maybe. I also think I feel like I am tired of his shenanigans.

Maybe you can stick a fork in me because I am done?


Hello FightOn,

Maybe he is angry with you because your DB efforts are working? It is easier for him to be passive aggressive with you than to reflect on himself and what he has chosen, right?

Sure, leaving might seem easier, but it isn't. Leaving just creates a different set of issues. Speaking with one of our DB Coaches will help you clarify your goals.

Cristy

Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
_________________________
A Divorce Busting Coach can help you save your marriage, even when your spouse wants out.

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#2739920 - 04/21/17 05:08 AM Re: Flotsam [Re: Cristy]
OwnIt Offline
Member

Registered: 03/16/17
Posts: 982
Loc:
Fight my H is obsessed with food and fitness and it has been a huge strain on our relationship, our family, everything. He is also massively PA. I recently read a book I saw mentioned here about living with passive agreessive men. It was quite enlightening for me. Much of what I have viewed as narcissim and MLC is described in the book. Unfortunately it doesn't tell you a whole lot about how to deal with these peeps. For me, as everyone here says, detaching is everything. I am finally at peace and starting to enjoy my life. His punches will only land if you let them. Next time he is talking to your S to get to you, just remember what a child he is in terms of his emotional development and give him your pity rather than your pain or frustration.
_________________________
M 25 years
EA 6-12/11
ILYBINILWY 11/13
BD 1/16 PA w/OW1 (6/13-1/17)
Sep 10/16
OW2 as of 3/17

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#2739940 - 04/21/17 08:02 AM Re: Flotsam [Re: OwnIt]
Brubeck Offline
Member

Registered: 03/03/16
Posts: 138
Loc: Chicago
CaliGuy -

Wow, reading your sitch sounds a little similar. My W doesn't want to coordinate on any decisions regarding the kids, and we are still under the same roof.

She lathers on the rules with spew. They come to me so I may enforce the rules with guidance and calm. It makes her angry that they come to me (even though I am technically backing up whatever chore or task she just demanded) and then she searches for something gone wrong in the house so she can also spew at me.

Thank you for your post on co-parenting and trying to reason with the MLCer. On time. Needed to hear that right now.
_________________________
M: 43, W: 40
T: 21 M: 14
S9, S5, S4
BD / EA #1: 01/24/16
PA: 04/29/16
W leaves MBR: 07/11/16
W files for D: 10/18/16

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#2739950 - 04/21/17 09:03 AM Re: Flotsam [Re: Brubeck]
FightOn Offline
Member

Registered: 09/26/16
Posts: 213
Job - I like the bad penny analogy. And preferring him to be dead. Lol! Been there, done that!!! Thank you for the suggestion of going over HaWho's threads. I will reread them for further enlightenment. When I see him acting the way he does, it really is easier to accept that it is him, and not me.

OwnIt - "his punches will only land if you let them." Yes!!!! A great line to remember while he spews.

H seems to be cycling. Yesterday evening he was sweet and kind and considerate! He told S in a sweet sincere sounding voice, I am going to take out the trash cans, ask your mommy if you can come outside with me to help. What?!? I wanted to ask "Who ARE you?"

This morning he was as sweet as pie and talkative as ever. He tried to engage me in some conversation about some issues in our line of work. I responded politely, but with fewer words than normal. I didn't offer my thoughts, feelings, or opinions on the matter. S picked up a catalog I received in the mail and H asked him if he was picking out a Mother's Day gift for me. Huh?!?

He mentioned an event a nearby city is having in early May that S might enjoy and said we should go. What on earth?

I have no idea what is going on in that rollercoaster, fog-filled brain of his. I am doing my best to ignore it and not let it have an impact on what I do or say. I know I would drive myself mad trying to figure it out.

This does get easier over time. For me, I have noticed if I take myself completely out of the equation - do not react, limit my words and interaction (go "gray rock" on him), I can see his behavior independent of mine. And I can confidently conclude, it is him, and not me.

In the meantime, I am continuing my therapy and working on trying to figure myself out. I am not where I would like to be, but I think I am on the right road.

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#2740569 - 04/25/17 10:25 AM Re: Flotsam [Re: FightOn]
FightOn Offline
Member

Registered: 09/26/16
Posts: 213
A little bit of a frustrating weekend. S developed an ear infection from his cold. Poor thing. We took him to Urgent Care Saturday morning. He has been given some antibiotics and is on the mend.

During that time, H was up to his usual nonsense. He came home Friday night and inquired about S. When I told him his day care provider reported that he had an off day - H said "well, he was fine when he dropped him off." I didn't respond.

I have to vent for a moment. Rather than consider the fact that S could have started feeling yucky after we dropped him off, he makes that passive aggressive remark. So either I am lying or the daycare provider is lying?

Then Saturday morning after S woke up, S wanted absolutely nothing to do with H. S kept repeating "no daddy!" to everything H tried to do with him. H became increasingly frustrated. He didn't say anything to me, but at one point while in the kitchen and S was protesting to H, H mumbled, "hmmmm." I ignored it.

When I expressed concern about S's demeanor (lethargic and not eating), H minimized my concerns saying there is nothing the doctors can do for a cold and S just needs time to get over it. I just told H that if S didn't make a turn around by the afternoon, I would be taking him to see a doctor.

Five minutes later S threw up. To the doctor's office we went.

I am so tired of being treated like a piece of garbage. He uses me as a punching bag to avoid his own issues. The passive aggressive remarks, the minimization of my concerns, does wear on me. I am reminding myself that his behavior says more about him than me and that detachment is the key.

I'm getting there. But my goodness, this is a very long, bumpy road.

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