Figured I was getting close enough to needing a new thread.
I ended up going to counseling last night with H. I kept pretty quiet and didn't bring up much except for what I was asked by the C.
I left not feeling any different then when I went in. The C said he just wanted to meet with us to touch base before the baby was born but that he didn't intend to listen to people fight or hash things out. He said that H and I have had enough of that the last 6 weeks and that we need some positive in our relationship. He basically wants us to focus on being parents and come back for marriage counseling in a couple weeks once we get settled at home with the baby. He said we can decide to split up or work things out at that point.
He did ask H directly if there was someone else (not that he would admit it anyway) but he asked if there was someone he was talking to, texting, calling, having an emotional relationship, or any female that he was spending time talking to.
He spoke a lot with H about trauma and how I cannot unsee or forget things that have happened in the past. And that while yes we are moving forward, if H gives me reasons to go back to the past then thats where my brain is going to go. He told H he is absolutely giving me a lot of reasons to be concerned. He said he understood. He said that he feels as though I feel like he is my third child and that it is hard to go to work and work hard every day and come home and be accused of things you aren't doing.
C asked H about changing the password on his phone. He said that he had been talking to a friend about things and didn't want me looking and getting upset about them talking about us. I called BS because H told me he wasn't talking to anyone. But we didn't dive into it any further.
The C asked me to tell H what I need from him to trust him again. He said that I am very anxious and wanting to talk because I am in fight or flight mode and that H is the opposite and shuts down. And we are both pushing each others buttons and pushing each other further away. He said we both need to meet each other's needs to not continue pushing one another away. So i said that I needed him to change his passwords to the passwords they've always been. Not because I want to look through his stuff but because then I can feel that he has nothing to hide. I said I didn't want to be in a relationship where I had to snoop and that isn't why I care about the passwords that I just care that he felt he has a need to change them secretly. I said what was more important than that was the way H treats me. I said I have never cared about the passwords or looking at the phone because H always made me feel number 1 and like a priority. I said I don't feel that way and that's what makes me the most uncomfortable because he used to always make me feel that way. I also said that I didn't feel safe in this relationship because this is our first issue we have had since reconciliation and he jumps to I'm done, I'm moving out after the baby. The C told H he cannot use words like that. H said that he said it in a moment of anger because we were fighting every day and it felt like the only answer. I reiterated that H has said it multiple times. The C said H is done with feeling unhappy and not trusted but if he was done with the M he wouldn't be sitting next to me in the office. Neither of us said anything.
He asked me to not bring anything up to H about our M. In turn he told H that he needed to treat me as his wife and be affectionate toward me (not kissing my ass) but just to let me know he's still here in this marriage. So we both agreed to that. H told me last night he understood some things better but still isn't sure how he feels and that he is just going to do as the C said and we can go back in a few weeks and 'see what happens' He kissed me goodbye when we left C. Came in the room at an earlier time last night to watch TV with me and kissed me and told me he loved me.
The counselor wants me to be loving in return. H brought up that I push him and say he's not trying but that he has done things for me (the mulch and the pool stuff he specifically brought up - the damn mulch will be the death of me lol) and said that he did that to show me he's trying and instead I focused on what he wasn't doing.
The C said we are both playing the game of chicken, like who is going to do what first. I said that H used to always text/call me ask me how my day was etc but he doesn't do that anymore. H told me now I know how it feels to do something and it not be reciprocated. So the C said we both need to be doing these things to bring us back closer together.
So here I am, no further away or closer to my goal. Like I said before, I know that I need to see a change in H's behavior to trust him again. So I'm going to continue to not engage in R talks and be polite and see what happens.
I'm not entirely sure what I am supposed to be doing. The C wants me to be 'loving.' I don't know if I'm in a place where I reach out to H and ask how his day is occasionally or if I leave him be. I guess I am still left feeling super uncertain.
Call me crazy, but that sounds like a pretty good session and as productive as things can be right now.
You seem to think you are no closer to your goal because things didn't go from one extreme or another. You wanted a "yes I'm having an A and I'm done" or "I want to work on this marriage and recommit fully right now"
You know realistically that it doesn't work like that.
Real changes are slow and gradual. A change overnight I believe cannot be trusted.
The C said what we have been saying. Table big decisions and big actions until after the baby is born. This is a totally sensitive time and that's where the focus needs to be.
Maybe he will change his secretive behavior. You say you don't know if you can ask him how is day is in a loving way right now. Well, lets be honest, why would he act that way with you if you cant act that way with him? I mean, I get what the C is saying. You want him to treat you like a priority. But you aren't willing to even ask him about his day?
He's hurt you very badly and lets be real, I'd want to smack him if I were in your position right now. But you also want change and you want your M to work. For that to happen, you both gotta work.
You have your shower this weekend right? Have fun! It will be wonderful being surrounded by your friends and family all who are excited for the baby's arrival.
The C said we are both playing the game of chicken, like who is going to do what first. I said that H used to always text/call me ask me how my day was etc but he doesn't do that anymore. H told me now I know how it feels to do something and it not be reciprocated. So the C said we both need to be doing these things to bring us back closer together.
So here I am, no further away or closer to my goal. Like I said before, I know that I need to see a change in H's behavior to trust him again. So I'm going to continue to not engage in R talks and be polite and see what happens.
I'm not entirely sure what I am supposed to be doing. The C wants me to be 'loving.' I don't know if I'm in a place where I reach out to H and ask how his day is occasionally or if I leave him be. I guess I am still left feeling super uncertain.
TO - This all sounds great to have it out there. This cr@p is so slow and painful and I'm not pregnant about to give birth to a beautiful baby!!!
The balance of reaching out on your H day while going dark. Being loving while withdrawing. It's all difficult to manage and monitor and we all know the struggle is real.
You've got to do what's comfortable for you so only extend as far as you feel like you can and maintain control of your emotions. I have no idea how you do that at 9-months pregnant. My youngest is 10, I'm a dude and I'm feeling emotions as a pregnant woman in reading your story, so I have no idea how you're handling this. As echoed by many, we're all with you. :-)
Me 42, Wife 39; Married 16; Together 17; Kids: D13, S10 Wife asks for Divorce: 03/19/13 Reconcile: 07/07/13 Round 2 Starts: 02/19/17 Apartment Life: 04/21/17 PA Confirmed: 05/23/17
The counselor wants me to be loving in return. H brought up that I push him and say he's not trying but that he has done things for me (the mulch and the pool stuff he specifically brought up - the damn mulch will be the death of me lol) and said that he did that to show me he's trying and instead I focused on what he wasn't doing.
I think a lot of men are like your H. They see going to work every day, mowing the yard, washing the car, etc........as signs they love us. And if we say anything about the pool or mulch, and they take care of it.......OMG! They think they've hung the moon for us! We look at it as just work around the house that has to be done.....just as we have work that has to be done. Difference is, they usually have to be told what needs to be done.
I think men need stars on their helmets, medals around their neck, stripes on their arms, and a variety of things on their chest........for their accomplishments and/or services. Even if it is cleaning the pool.
In my M, my H's love language = acts of service.......and I appreciate what he does, however, acts of service is not my love language.
I'm wondering when you tell your H you need to see him trying to work on the MR, or doing more/better to assure you he loves you.....if he is processing the correct image in his head. You know how the LBH's on the board are always saying their W did not speak plainly enough and in a way the could understand she was unhappy and what she needed from him? And we women are saying to ourselves..."un-huh". As one man said, "Men are very simple minded. We need you women to draw us a picture of what you want, b/c we can't understand what you are saying". From the look on my H's face when I am talking......I agree with that person's statement! They don't get it. We might as well be speaking a foreign language.
The two of you seem very compatible when it comes to the physical affection, which I think is fantastic. So many MR break down in the bedroom. There is something else you need from him to assure you that no other person takes priority over you. Does he need to verbally tell you more than just ILY? Does he need to be more romantic? Does he need to send you flowers or buy something specific? Does he need to spend more time with just the two of you? These are all love languages.
Draw him a picture, honey. Color it and put arrows on it, if necessary. Cause he just doesn't get it. I know, I know......how could he be that dumb, right? What can I say?
(I hope the guys on the board will take my poking at men with good humor).
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Sandi, I told him what I needed and I have been telling him that and he hasn't done it.
I read these posts and still feel like there's such a generic nature to what you say in terms of what you need/want from your h. "H has to Make me feel like a priority" and "make me feel safe", means, What, specifically?
If your h were here, how would he describe how you are "working on the m" & how it's going?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I hope the guys on the board will take my poking at men with good humor.
I don't understand.
good one
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I thought the session went as well as you could (realistically) hope.
What if you tried, for now, to put the focus on what you can give your h more than what you need or want from him?
IMHO, The all or nothing approach is not to be used at this time.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
H described me as a roller coaster - one day I am nice and friendly and the next day we are arguing and I'm telling him he needs to fess up to cheating and tell the kids we're getting a divorce. That's not really the reality but I have been a little up and down (not on a day to day basis). he said we have good days and bad days, but in reality those days are dependent on both of us. The counselor told H his behavior makes me very anxious and that if he wants me to step back he needs to give me a reason to. H just said things are 'up and and down.' I don't think that H really thinks I am trying to work on the M so to speak. He thinks that I just want to flip a switch and have everything be okay. He said he can't do that, that he's trying and it will take time. I struggle because I know that he is lying to me about things that I haven't told him I know. He doesn't know I look at the phone bill so when he lies and says he never has talked to the OW in question I know its a lie but I'm not willing to show all my cards. I also know for example he went to lunch and ignored my calls during lunch. Then when he calledm e back he said he had been working the whole time and didn't have his phone. Again, I know this is a lie and it's like if he has nothing to hide why lie? So it spirals me down a path of WTF. I do want to believe him but when he lies and I know it's a lie how am I supposed to? I told him I knew he was lying and that I know he has called that girl. He just said he left work for a little bit to get drinks (a lie) and that yeah shes probably called him or vice versa about work related things. I just told him that the truth will come out eventually. He told me I should call her and ask her. He then said that he hopes I look for stuff so that when I find nothing and see that he's telling the truth I can be the one that's sorry and looks like an [censored].
So back to how H can make me feel 'safe or important' I told H and the counselor it's his behavior and treatment toward me. Changing his phone password back to what it's always been. Being more involved in my life for example calling me like he used to on his way home from work, asking how my day was and yes I said it should go both ways but maybe he could initiate those things. I really don't want to have to go through his phone, I don't want to be in a relationship like that. I want someone that makes me feel secure and not have the need to go through the phone.
So what does this all mean? Where does this lead me? I don't know. I am so damn torn on what I should be doing. The C wants me to make an effort and be loving and stop playing chicken and reach out to H and him reciprocate and to the same. Part of me thinks that's what he needs. Then the other part of me (my brain) is telling me he's lying to you and being suspicious. Leave him be and go about your life without him. I really don't know what the right course of action is.
I totally get what you're saying - I vacillated between being able to understand WH's actions and totally hating his guts. I am talking murder-grade hate.
Things clarified for me a lot when I spoke to a friend who is a devout Christian. Her advice really resonated with me and you don't have to have faith to apply it. Quite simply, which frame of mind (forgiving/loving vs. suspicious/angry), gives you peace? That's the one you want to be practising - drop the mindset that produces actions that create conflict etc. The right course of action is the one that gives you a sense of peace - it will resonate with your core and your values.
So even though my WH is, to all appearances, going strong with OW, I'm not getting het up about it anymore. I've accepted his reasons for doing it. I'm acting in a way that I am happy with. I don't want to attack him anymore. It might make me look a fool, a doormat in front of my friends, but I'm not going to quit trying to save my marriage for anyone else but my son. At this point I don't care about what anyone else thinks except me and my DS.
It helps that I've had a kind of lightbulb moment and understand why WH did what he did. I've accepted it and forgiven him. I don't agree with what he's done, it's still a superbly crappy thing, but I've realised he wasn't doing it to deliberately hurt me. I keep coming up against this statement - hurting people hurt people. That helped me understand him and what he's done.
I don't know. I am so damn torn on what I should be doing. The C wants me to make an effort and be loving and stop playing chicken and reach out to H and him reciprocate and to the same. Part of me thinks that's what he needs. Then the other part of me (my brain) is telling me he's lying to you and being suspicious. Leave him be and go about your life without him. I really don't know what the right course of action is.
T0,
What do you really gain at a time like this if you keep your guard up? What are the potential benefits?
And what would you gain if you let your guard down?
Let's make a list:
Guard up
Benefits
Feels safe (but is that an illusion?)
Drawbacks
Loss of potential emotional intimacy with H
Stress of constantly needing to be on guard
How can H prove a negative?
H may leave or want divorce
Guard down
Benefits
Potential for lower stress experience welcoming new baby
Potential for emotional intimacy with H
H feels trusted and less likely to leave or want divorce
Oh ya for sure... I've been going at it for 6 weeks.
H is working this weekend. Apparently it's mandatory this weekend (first time ever). I didn't even ask twice about it. He's going to do what he's going to do. But the boys and I will be gone all day they have 4 soccer games all over the place in about a 100 mile radius then we have 2 birthday parties so I'll be too busy to care and too exhausted by the end of the day lol. Then Sunday is my shower and I have a huge exam Monday morning that I'll be cramming for Sunday evening. Tuesday is my last free day to finish up logging all my clinical patients and prepping for the baby then Wednesday morning I have to be at the hospital at 8am! I am hoping and praying it will be a fast easy labor. Both my boys came within 5 hours of being induced. I feel like royalty at the hospital they already have my nurse picked out and the best room reserved for me it's the little things lol.
I'm sure I mentioned this already but my grandma is coming in town the following Saturday for a week after I have the baby so I'll be staying at the beach condo with her since H will be returning to work. I'm so appreciative of her coming and helping me.
Sandi what do I do with him with the lying... Does that automatically mean he's up to something? I'm just a cut to the chase kind of girl like don't waste my time and the truth will come out eventually so why drag it out.
Do you suggest I follow the C advice for these next few weeks of being living and reaching out and reciprocating? I am torn on what's the right thing to do.
Gosh, T, I feel so much of my old self in these most recent posts.
It seems easy for those of us on the outside to see the positives in this latest development ... and probably especially to those who are currently separated and feeling they'd give anything to get from their spouses just that little bit of hope that you got from your H. I mean, it does sound like a pretty successful counseling session. But to us "old hats" who have been here before ( ), it's easier to be cynical ... and expect a bit more.
And if your H had shown some truth-telling ... or some remorse ... I think it would be quite easy to take the C's advice and run with it. In fact, I think his advice sounds very much like what my H and I had to do when we began piecing our M back together.
But there's a little step that feels like it's missing between where you are right now and where the C wants you to be ... like, *now*. First: a commitment on both of your parts to the M. That, in my experience, was a critical first step before I could take that blind leap of faith and start "acting as if" in earnest. Second, it would be awfully hard for me to be vulnerable and act "loving" toward a man who I knew was actively lying to me (even about something "small") - and specifically about a girl that I felt in my gut was baddddd news. It's *good* that you're a little suspect about this C's advice. It's hard to jump from having a Ph.D. in something to acting like you're stupid. I feel you!!!!
That being said, *if* you want your M to work, I agree with the others: you have to start *somewhere* - and fast - in meeting your H's stated needs. And I also firmly believe that a small change in one spouse's behavior (actions ... not necessarily words) can spark a change in the other's. (And FTR, I sooooo agree with sandi about how so many men need gold-star stickers for everything they do on top of what's "expected." And the PRAISE! Ugh! )
Try to look at it like a sandwich and you're taking off just a tiny nibble. Come up with something small you can do every day to meet his stated needs in a way that does not compromise your core values and boundaries. It could even be something subtle that maybe he doesn't outwardly recognize so you don't feel you're choking back your dignity or pride to do it. Make an effort to do it daily. When you've got it down pat, add a second thing. It can be as simple as smiling at him. (Remember a week or so ago when that felt impossible?)
Three days and counting until D-Day, yes? Oh my!
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
Missed you these last few days. And yes I believe having been here before is a double edged sword. It makes me more like ... I call BS. Been there done that.. but then again it doesn't necessarily mean that's the case this time but hard not to relate to that. The C explained all that to H.
I told H my reservations about this girl that she looks very similar to previous OW and I'm pretty sure they're the same age. It's just that when I know he's lying it's like how am I supposed to believe anything he says? Even if he says the sky is blue I would still be hesitant to believe if he's telling the truth. If that makes sense.
But in the same sense. I get what you're saying. I'm pushing him further away IF there is nothing
If he had said it C he was commited to the M or willing to make it work I would be able to let go. But he did t say that. Being the devils advocate he also didn't say he was done and he's willing to continue MC after the baby comes. But the counselor said if we come back and decide to split that's something we can discuss in C so then I start thinking is that his intention for when we go back to tell me he's done?
I know My actions directly impact him. As I stopped bringing stuff up he started sleeping in the room and kissing me goodnight. I think I need to continue to do less talking and more action.
I just don't know what that looks like or what it is. I do smile at him and I am pleasant at the house. C said to act as his loving wife not his mother. I guess it would be easier if I knew where he stood or if he was commited. Because I don't want to do things and be a pushover when I know he's lying.
So what actions do you suggest? My brain is literally fried. I was driving my son to. Soccer today and he's like mom where are you going. I drove him to school lol ... pregnancy at its finest. I had an hour and a half webcam interview with my school faculty today simulating a patient scenario/exam so today I am exhausted.
So I may need a little more hand holding or suggestions because I really don't know what to do that doesn't come off as a kiss ass or push over but still meets his needs.
lying $ucks, I'm sure we all agree. But are all lies really the same?
Have I EVER "lied" to h? Well, yes. I for sure flattered him more than I felt, and did not say I minded things I did mind, b/c he could not change them.
I covered for the kids - and justified it b/c he over reacted or I didn't agree with what I believed his reaction would be, and the mistake was already done--(and I'm justifying it now!)
AND I am sure I glossed over some aspects of things, or left out things someone might say that would offend h...
did I knowingly lie solely to protect my own self interest? Can't think of one but I'm sure there were some bc it was a long m.
Point being, I wasn't hiding a big dark secret. (Just lots of stupid ones?)
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I guess it's just that he never lied about these things before and now he is??
I put on my fake face and was pleasant at home. I got home with the boys from soccer and H was home. He greeted me at the door and gave me A kiss. I asked him about his day and he took a ride with me to the grocery store. We talked about work and he said he was hoping they cancel the requirement for work Saturday and that he's feeling really stressed with this pay cut and has been talking to his regional manager about needing to move shops or leaving the company (he's down over 20k from what he had made at this time last year).
Anyway I had asked him a question. About the tent we use for the soccer games since I'll be going alone. H usually takes care of everything. I just asked if he thought it would be heavy for me to carry alone. He told me it was heavy and I shouldn't be carrying it. He said he would tell his work he couldn't come in so I didn't have to go alone this weekend. I told him that wasn't necessary. I don't know if any of you ladies went through this before with pregnancy but my face is so sensitive to the sunlight. I'm getting all those little dark spots from being in the sun so much and I even put 50spf on my face. It's terrible! I hate those sun spots and I'm too young to have them lol
Anyway we came home and put a funny Movie on to watch with the boys... I'm putting them to bed now.
Oh and when I checked the phone bill H called the questionable OW today. This is the third time since BD that they've talked on the phone. He never called or her she never called him prior to March.
My advice would be for you to follow suit. Go with the flow. Be pleasant when he's pleasant. If he distances himself, you just casually back off and do your own thing.
From where I sit, it looks like the door has opened for a calm, BEAUTIFUL birth of your baby boy.
There's hard work ahead, but let's forget about it for now, okay? Just relax and let things ride.
I don't say this often because I don't want it to come across as patronizing, but ... I am proud of you!
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
(Because it's possible that he called her to tell her he can't talk to her anymore after-hours because he's going to try to work things out with his W. My H did this in BD1, but it was "goodbye sex" instead of a phone call. And I literally walked in on them ... while I was pregnant. So yeah. Let's not put too much stock in that phone call.)
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
... Also, it's possible that they really do talk mostly about work stuff. But maybe she showed a little interest ... or was a little "flirty" ... and that gave him an ego boost for a bit. Especially if he came home and felt his wife was acting like his mom. (And I *do* think that some of that "black-and-white," cards-on-the-table personality might make it seem like you're more motherly than "wifely," which is something you can work on ... for BOTH of your benefits. I had to work on it, too; it was hard, but life is so much sweeter now!! We'll get to that later.)
I would contend that it would be very hard for a man to "pretend" to love his W while he's infatuated/having an A with another. So take his behavior the past day or two as good news. And maybe let this phone call roll off your back for now?
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
I guess my overall concern is the calls have become more frequent. They are only ever during work hours and never more than 1 minute long. So it's just strange. As I said I can't see if they text because it's iMessages and those don't show on our phone bill.
I'm struggling to keep my mouth shut.
And thanks for saying your proud of me. I know I'm not very good at this. It means a lot
And I'll give you advice that Wonka once gave me, and it's one of my all-time favorite pieces of advice:
Be the OW to the OW.
To me, that was the best way to explain how I should be acting.
You are his W. You are the mother of his children. You guys share a past. You're lightyears ahead of any other woman in your H's world. Remember that. And then go act like it!
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
I don't know how to be the OW. I'm huge and pregnant and hormones are out of control and literally all I want to do is have sex (damn testosterone from this baby) but he hasn't tried in a long time.
Bahahahahaha!!!!! I know, girl, but that's alllllll about to change! You just hold tight. After this baby is born, we're gonna get you back to you, okay? It might take a couple months, but those couple months will fly.
And nope. Stay mum about the phone call. Work on those little things you can do daily to draw your H closer to you instead of pushing him further away. Whether y'all end up together or not, this is important because you both need to be able to bond with your new son.
I knowwwww it feels like we're encouraging you to drag things out. And sort of we are. But all of us see that there's no hurry right now in your situation. The only thing impatience will do is move you backwards.
You're doing a really, really good job just holding the line right now, T. Keep it up.
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
The only great thing about having been so sick since the get go with this pregnancy is I've only gained 4lbs! Holla! Lol and if this baby really is 10.5 lbs like they're thinking this is going to be the best diet without exercise ever. And maybe I'll even have some abs after all the puking my abdominal muscles got worked.
I am going to continue to check the phone bill and do My due diligence because it's just who I am but I won't say anything we will probably go back to the counselor a few weeks after the baby. I won't have too much time because I go back to clinical for school 3 - 8 hour days a week May 31 through July 28th so it's gonna be rough.
Is this going to turn around for the two of us? I just want the old H back as I've said so many times. I wish he could just say if he was willing to work on. The M or not. The few people that do know what's going on keep saying the baby is going to bring us closer but I'm not so convinced.
In my M, babies made things more stressful. Lol. BUT, the baby may remind you both of what all is at stake.
Your family is worth fighting for.
Your plan sounds great. No boat-rocking. Just slow and steady in these last few days. You're about to meet another little boy who thinks you hung the moon.
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
*Stop checking his phone for now. Let his actions do the talking. For now.
truly^^^^!!!
plus, hey, you know better...
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Oh ya. Definitely more stressful. Well not so much baby number 1 because we were on cloud 9 but baby number 2 was stressful because our son had just turned 3 and was jealousss
I think it will be stressful but it will be so worth it. But I do think it will remind him of our family and what all we have. That's what the counselor said yesterday. He said it would be a shame to see this marriage end when you're both two good people who love each other and have a beautiful family with a new baby coming.
We both just shook our heads in agreement but neither of us said a word.
I am so excited to meet this baby as the time draws closer. Once I get things buttoned up around here the next few days and get this exam behind me and all my clinical paperwork I can rest and get ready to enjoy this baby uninterrupted. I will only have 1 final after baby and some paperwork for next semester if I get everything done by Monday.
The boys are so so excited too!
I retired to my room early tonight after the boys went to bed and H came in rather early too. Said he had a migraine and has been trying to fall asleep. He kissed me goodnight said ILY and I reciprocated and went to bed.
Proud of these pregnancy hormones for not getting the best of me and saying something about the phone call like I did last week. I almost wonder if he's testing me to see if I'm checking it.
The only great thing about having been so sick since the get go with this pregnancy is I've only gained 4lbs! Holla! Lol and if this baby really is 10.5 lbs like they're thinking this is going to be the best diet without exercise ever. And maybe I'll even have some abs after all the puking my abdominal muscles got worked. I am going to continue to check the phone bill and do My due diligence because it's just who I am (my first 3 of ever)
1) WHY NOW???
And 2) so, your "due diligence"...??? b/c that's Just who you are", (and you cannot change any behaviors because...you know, that's just how you are, but your h - HE has to b/c he's not who he is and he's not feeling what he is feeling and everything he says is a lie and nothing he does is an effort or sincere and you say and do all this,
despite the promises You made at the C...
T0...um, wtf? To me this ^^ is just not good for you or the baby or the m.
Even if you think you'll get info that is somehow useful in a divorce,
There is no reason you cannot do that LATER...the baby is coming in less than a week and you've got so much on your plate OTHER than snooping and planning on snooping too. That's the part that makes me smh the most.
Oh sweetie, you need to settle down big time
but I won't say anything (but will you resent and seethe for the last week of the pregnancy and the first weeks of the baby in your family?)
we will probably go back to the counselor a few weeks after the baby. I won't have too much time because I go back to clinical for school 3 - 8 hour days a week May 31 through July 28th so it's gonna be rough.
Is this going to turn around for the two of us? I feel like so much sabotage is coming from both of you but YOU are here saying you want to save the m, and some of your behaviors are not consistent with that.
I think your fears of being hurt again are so high that you think preemptively getting out is protective.
I just want the old H back as I've said so many times. I wish he could just say if he was willing to work on. The M or not.
Well, he wants a warm loving wife before he feels like committing again, and he's not getting that, so he really isn't sure.
And you want him to be sure and say so, before you'll be warm and loving...so..."conditions precedent" can really undermine marriages.
It's like seeing someone explain why they can't exercise b/c their back hurts, but they have to exercise to lose weight to help their back pain, "but but but"....and so on and so on...
You guys have what L's call "conditions precedent" and each of you wants the other to meet those conditions BEFORE you will comply, & give what the other really needs.
I don't know what your h is risking by doing what you need first, or if he's simply being honest about having mixed feelings.
Look, I'm not happy with your h's behaviors - especially with such bad timing for this crap. But dear T0, your timing for snooping and obsessing isn't too great either.
The few people that do know what's going on keep saying the baby is going to bring us closer but I'm not so convinced.
hmmm...well, what should you DO about how unconvinced you are?
Focus on your doubts, right? UGH!
FYI, that's^^ the most I have ever given.
Hey, T0, it's 6 days till your baby boy comes. So here's the last 2 x 4 I'll give you. (Got a helmet on??) Just this one time I need to say it...
Please hand over to your coming baby, all the headspace & heart space you're presently giving this obsessing and doubting about your marriage
and let your baby be fully welcome into the world, with a mother who puts his needs for love, ahead of her need for marital certainty.
Deep down your rational self knows you will be alright no matter what happens to the m, so shelve it for now. Let your 3rd son be the focus he deserves to be.
((( )))
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
There's no why now all of the sudden, I have been checking the phone bill since BD - keeping myself in the know.
Me checking the phone bill, IMO, hasn't interfered with me doing my school work and getting ready for the baby. I guess I justify it in my mind because it would be eating away at me wondering if he was calling her, etc. Now yes, when I see that they've talked on the phone it bothers me of course.
I am so anxious, I know I am, the C said it too. He said I am in fight or flight mode right now. He explained this to H. He also told H he is giving me plenty of reasons to feel this way.
I do not get why they talk on the phone if they work in the same office... plus he NEVER called her prior to March. I understand not to say anything but I would be lying if I said I wasn't concerned. Especially because he does not talk to any of the other girls in the office on the phone.
I know I am not doing everything perfectly and I know you are disappointed in my actions and don't agree with them. I am sorry because I do appreciate you taking your time but I am trying to do the best I can in the situation I am in. Not that it excuses it by any means. It is very hard to explain - it's like I don;t want a divorce BUT in the same sense I don't want to be continued to be treated this way/given these doubts and no reassurance from H while we're living in the same roof. I keep comparing everything to last time over and over. I feel like every single day I am waiting for the other shoe to drop. In my mind, hes leaving like last time and this is the same as last time EXCEPT he's still in the house because I'm pregnant but if I weren't pregnant he would be gone... he just doesn't want to be seen as the bad guy to people leaving his pregnant wife. I also KNOW this may not be the case but this is what my brain is telling me.
In my mind, and I am not saying this is right by any means but just the way I'm thinking/feeling, things would be better or he would be showing me more if he was really here wanting to be in this marriage and not preoccupied with someone else. I take every single gesture he does as just trying to buy time to stay here since he knows and I've told him if he's done he needs to move. He doesn't have the money to leave and put down first, last and a security deposit because he just had to shell out many thousands of dollars for our tax return.
Again, not saying any of this is true but it is how my brain has been feeling and continues to feel. Why can't I trust that any gesture is genuine? I really would like to not feel this way and I want to believe he IS making an effort but my mind won't let me do that right now. I don't want to feel this way.
I do have to say I am bothered by the phone call but I did not sit in the house resentful one bit last night. We watched a movie with the boys and all laughed and had a good time. I went to my room (as I've been doing most of the nights) after I put the boys to sleep. My youngest likes me to read to him and rub his back (he is very spoiled) so I usually end up laying with him for a bit anyway. H fell asleep on the couch and I went out there and covered him up and shut the lights off. He woke up and came to the room said goodnight, etc as I said and he went to bed. So yes internally I was bothered but I didn't show it one bit. I posted here when I wanted to say something and it helped tremendously.
You are very right that my fears are through the roof of him putting me through what he did last time. It was terrible. Just as C told H, he chose to step out of the M last time and leave the M filing for D -- not me. So my reaction from that trauma is natural and H's lack of assurance pushes me further into this downward spiral. H just agreed and said he understood but didn't say much on the subject. I don't want to push him away but I guess maybe I am subconsciously.
The C also told H that he lied to me so much before in previous BD that now I feel like I have to ask the same thing 50 times because last time he eventually admitted the truth about OW. So he said I figure if I keep asking maybe on the 51st time H will give me a different answer that's the truth. He said that is why I continue to ask the same thing over and over because last time I eventually got a different answer - the truth.
The C said it is like we are both waiting for the other person to do something, like a game of chicken. He said we both need to make the effort and both need to reciprocate when the other person makes the effort. I feel I did that yesterday and H did as well.
Oh and I am very ready for this baby and he IS a priority. My boys are a priority. Yes I post all of this here but it does not interfere with my day to day life with my time with my kids and school. Well maybe a little bit of school and house work because I take some time to post here when prior to this I might be cleaning or doing something similar.
I hope this clarifies or helps you understand my mind a little bit. I really really don't want to feel this way. My brain and my rationale reverts back to last time. I felt understood in the C because he explained all of my feelings are normal to H and the C is actually the one that brought all of this up on his own. He wanted to explain to H why my behavior and actions are what they are. I don't know if H was in a place to hear it and absorb it but it was nice to feel understood by someone and that I'm not just a crazy lunatic that's hanging on by a thread.
As far as for this morning, I couldn't sleep so I got up early to make the boys' lunches, etc. H came and gave me a kiss goodbye (he usually leaves early while we are all sleeping but he slept in this morning). Anyway he kissed me and said see ya later, I told him to have a good day and he wished me the same and that was it. I am trying to do what the counselor asked
When he told you how stressed he was about his pay reduction, what did you say?
[That was him taking a step toward you. An opportunity.]
Me: 46 W: 44 Married: 17 Together 21 D13; S10 BD: 03.03.15 (Not attracted to you) Almost 2 years trying, alone, to save marriage Status now: Divorced (effective 06.13.17)
I told him I understand it's stressful and maybe we could look at selling some things to reduce our monthly expenses and pay some bills off so he has less to worry about paying each month so that he doesn't feel he has to leave his job.
I'm not disappointed in you, I'm just worried about your health, etc.
If you are a believer, maybe this mantra will help as it helped me (bc you know in your head that you will be alright in the long run, regardless of what happens in the m).
When you operate in fear, you are not operating in faith.
T0, There's no need for you to be living in fear, today.
Make sense?
And your suggestion to sell something to help pay off bills and reduce stress was a good one. Maybe you can follow up with a specific idea of something to sell- so your h won't think you mean his motorcycle...
(& now that I write that out, I wonder if that what you were thinking?)
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
given the givens, you are doing quite well. You are in the last lap, until the next - sleepless - marathon starts.
But that too, will pass. You will get to the other side of this.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Ha 25, I wanted to suggest the motorcycle but I didn't. I actually suggested specific things that are joint things. We have 2 extra trucks that we use to tow the boats we have. So, I suggested those as I thought it would be quick and easy. He just said, I don't know. So I left it at that.
(And I *do* think that some of that "black-and-white," cards-on-the-table personality might make it seem like you're more motherly than "wifely," which is something you can work on ... for BOTH of your benefits. I had to work on it, too; it was hard, but life is so much sweeter now!! We'll get to that later.)
I would contend that it would be very hard for a man to "pretend" to love his W while he's infatuated/having an A with another. So take his behavior the past day or two as good news. And maybe let this phone call roll off your back for now?
I agree!
T, you must keep your mouth closed...... even if you have to duct tape it shut!
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
You are doing GREAT, T! We have a few more days to STFU and stay off his phone and bring that beautiful bouncing baby boy into the world! YAY! And the calmer you are at home, the more welcoming and comfortable home is, and the more H is going to think about home ... and you and the family ... *even if he is at work*.
Big hugs! You have a busy next few days to prepare for!
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
Yes, TO, I agree that you are DOING GREAT! Keep ShuttingTFU and when you're tempted to go negative or fussy, just inwardly see all of us peeking in your kitchen window shaking our collective heads NO, and it is bound to bring a smile to your face!
M-60 H-51 M-14 years BD 12/26/16 S 1/1/17
"First the pain, then the rising." Glennon Doyle Melton
Haha I can totally picture the way I've pictured everyone in my mind staring through my kitchen window
Not much to report. H chose not to go to work today and came to all 4 /9,,23 games with the boys and I. He was pretty quiet/distant but I was friendly and made casual conversation.
The boys just left to go stay the night with my mom so it will be just H and I here til tomorrow. He is outside working in the garage right now and I'm inside cleaning and organizing baby stuff.
He told me he will be going to work tomorrow. I have my shower and then my uncle is in town and we were supposed to have lunch with him. But now H is working so it will be just the boys and I going. I didn't say anything just ok.
I was thinking of asking H if he wanted to go to a movie or get dinner. Not sure if that's something I'm supposed to be doing.
Well, you have to eat, right? And a movie might be a good way to do something together without the temptation to talk. If you ask, just be prepared to not react if he says no. NO EXPECTATIONS. You're doing great!
M-60 H-51 M-14 years BD 12/26/16 S 1/1/17
"First the pain, then the rising." Glennon Doyle Melton
Now I'm all nervous about whether you're at 6 centimeters, wanting time to pass faster, and the dang epidural to happen, or you're pushing or you're changing a diaper or what... I'm also vicariously excited!
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
It's been a wild couple of days. I had my shower Sunday which was great and then started having strong contractions shortly after. H and I got into it over him being dishonest as always and I had been trying to get in touch with him. But not getting into that.
Anyway I came home with the boys and laid down and tried to rest hoping they were just from stress and being up and busy all day. I slept terribly that night and had my exam the next morning. As soon as I stood up at 7am they were pretty frequent like every 4 minutes so I sent my dr a text and she happens to be at the hospital and wanted me to come in. I told her I would after my test at 11am. She wasn't happy about it but she knew I wasn't budging. They were prettt all over the place sometimes every 3 sometimes every 8 minutes but were oh so painful. Long story short I called H and my mom and told them I needed to go to the hipsiral and that they needed to get here ASAP. H works an hour away and. My mom was only 30 mins away so she picked me up as I was finishing my exam and the contractions were like 1-2 minutes apart in a matter o a few minutes.
H met us at the hospital and My dr was waiting. I was 9cm when I got there and begging for my epidural. Well that didn't happen! My precious boy was born at 2pm. Less than 2 hours after finishing my test at home and less than an hour from when I got into a room. I am so thankful for my close friend who works here as an L&D nurse having everything waiting for me and for my amazing dr coming in on her day off and being available at the drop of a hat for me. I couldn't ask for a better group of people to trust me welcoming my beautiful son into the world with. he is absolutely perfect and I am so in love. My boys are over the moon. I am on severe lack of sleep about 3 hours in the last 2 days so I am ready to crash.
I will be discharged tomorrow and it's back to reality of soccer school making dinner etc so I'm enjoying my last bit of time with the baby.
Haha I'm pretty sure whoever proctored my exam thinks I have something very wrong with me lol ... it's proctored via webcam and microphone.
We are supposed to be discharged today but baby has lost quite a bit of weight and my milk hasn't come in yet so we are doing a few feeds and weights this afternoon and then we will get the final word. Hoping to go home but okay with staying if that's what's best.
SO, I'm kinda (not totally, b/c of the Superwoman standard you're setting)
but kinda LOVING The "must finish this test first, (breathe)....AND Then (breathe)
have a baby!..."
we women love to multi task!!
YAYYYYYYYYYY
Sorry about the no epidural but you get more of a story this way
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I KNEW IT!!!!! Ahhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!! I haven't stopped thinking of you since Sunday!!!!! I'm not even kidding!!!!
CONGRATULATIONS, you warrior momma!!!! I am SO in awe of you!!!!
Hug that new sweet baby for me. And smell his head once for me too. Ahhhhhh .... new baby.
Beathe deep and ENJOY, T!!!
Call me crazy but I LOVE the smell of a baby's head! I guess it's hormonal. It makes me feel warm and fuzzy and calm --- OMG, now I feel like lactating....
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Call me crazy but I LOVE the smell of a baby's head! I guess it's hormonal. It makes me feel warm and fuzzy and calm ---
Me too! Back in the day before they started finding something wrong with baby powder, we would put baby oil on their top and powder on their bottom. That smell would just make me purr.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Oh yes baby hair well baby skin in general. I am enjoying and savoring every single second with school breaks in between. I had my final today submitted a ton of paperwork for next semester. The only thing standing between me and 4 weeks off is logging some clinic patients!
I cannot believe the baby is 1 week today! My older boys are so in love and have surpassed any expectations I had of them as big brothers. My grandma came in Saturday and is here for the week so the boys and I are staying at the condo on the beach with her ... and the baby of course so it's like a mini.vacay for us all
I'm obviously not DB'ing and have left H to himself for the most part with the exception of a recent conversation. To which he has started coming around more and doing things for me. He told me he wants our marriage to work and that things are getting better. He wants to continue going to counseling but said that he wants to be in this marriage and he still loves Me and is trying to figure out how we got here. I just had a [censored] or get off the pot attitude. I just said I didn't want to continue living like this and it's been almost 2 months and I'm not going to continue on in a situation like this. Either you love me and want this to work or you don't. I'll respect whatever decision it may be but it's time to figure it out.
I want things to get better but I also want to be able to communicate even if it's something he doesn't. Necessarily agree with or want to hear. I also want to focus on the baby and be happy. I want everyone to be happy. haven't made any counseling appointment yet. We are supposed to go soon but I really just want to focus on the baby and if H continues To come around then I will make one but I need to see more commitment from him before I make another C appointment. In the meantime I'm going to love on my baby and my older two and enjoy this uninterrupted time with them.
I'm really feeling like I'm done. My family who is visiting has commented H seems so Unhappy. That he isn't excited to see his kids when he gets home And shows no emotion.
I saw on the phone bill he's been calling/communicated with ex boss. That was discussed by us when we R that he wasn't to speak with any of those people. I haven't said anything but I just feel like this is over.
His words say he wants this to work but his actions tell me the opposite. I believe actions much more than words especially from someone who has shown he can be very dishonest.
I'm trying to figure out how *I* handle this and I don't really know the answer to that. Majority of me doesn't want to deal with it because I want to Focus on the baby but the other part of Me wants to tell him to get out.
I'm just checking in to say hello, rub the baby's tummy and hug your boys for me!
Thinking of you.
((( )))
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
The baby and the boys are great! The baby and I are still figuring out this breastfeeding thing.. well he has it figured out I'm dealing with the first couple weeks of discomfort that comes along with it lol
My grandma left today after being here for the week. We sure are going to miss her. We go back home tomorrow so back to reality. The boys and I have been staying at the condo on the beach since last weekend. My mom and her husband came out to stay tonight so we will go to dinner and enjoy the day tomorrow and then pack up to go home.
The baby is still as perfect as can be. Minus having his days and nights mixed up but if that's the worst I have to deal with I'm happy with that.
I finished up school this week so I'm off til May 30th. Can't wait to enjoy doing nothing besides being a mom.
I forgot the C had us make a C appt last time we went it's this Thursday. I'm going to see how the week goes before deciding if I'll keep the appointment.
There's not much new to report on the home front. H continues to be distant and dishonest about trivial things. I'm not pushing or letting on I know he's lying. But I continue to keep my guard up. I think I posted that I did give him the you're in or out ultimatum. Just said I can't live like this anymore you're either in this marriage or you're out and need to move out. He continues to say he wants to be together but his actions in my opinion say otherwise. He is making an effort in his mind but I need more from him than just him sleeping in the room kissing me hello and goodnight and saying I love you before bed. I haven't been initiating anything. No kissing or I love you. I do send him a pic during the day while he's at work. I'm feeling frustrated he doesn't send me a text checking on us while he's st work and hasn't once asked me how I'm feeling but I guess I can't expect those things of him.
I told him his actions feel forced. I asked him what he needs to be able to be more present. He says nothing just time.
At least we are all enjoying the baby to the fullest despite the circumstances. That's my number one concern. I don't want this to take away from these moments I'll never have back. I'm not ready to accept he's my last !!! I already want another lol. I'm emotionally unstable obviously Haha
My beautiful baby is 3 weeks old. I cannot believe it he has fit so well in our family and my boys are still so in love. I am so thankful for them they are a huge help. The baby is great minus having days and nights mixed up. I start back to clinical June 1st so I am a litttle nervous because I'm not getting much sleep at night. Hoping his sleeping schedule gets a little better by then.
As far as other things go. I am feeling indifferent. I really don't have any desire to do anything. He still kisses me good night etc says ILY and I find myself now not reciprocating anything. it's only been like this for a week so I'm sure my feelings will change 100 times. I cancelled counseling last week but we went this week at H's request. The C pushed him a lot this session. I just said what I had needed from H. But I also said it's been almost 3 months what are we doing. I'm going back to school and don't want this added stress so if it's a divorce he wants and that's what will make him happy then I'm okay with that. I also said I'm so tired of hearing it's over. The c told H he needs to decide what he wants because his actions and words show that he's done and he's removed himself from our marriage. He also told H he was full of excuses and that H knows what he needs to do to do but he chooses not to. So who knows. I know I've felt much better this last week not focusing on our situation. In this moment I feel like if he wants a D I will be okay and it's his loss. His head is too far you know where to see that clearly right now but he will when it's too late and that's something he will have to own and live with.
So that's it for me. Just going to continue enjoying this time with the baby and my boys. School is out next week and the boys are so excited. Hope everyone is well
I cannot believe it he has fit so well in our family and my boys are still so in love. I am so thankful for them they are a huge help.
TO - That is absolutely wonderful. I know it makes you filled with happiness seeing your boys loving on the new addition and giving you the support you need too. Good luck with the sleeping.
Originally Posted By: T0324
In this moment I feel like if he wants a D I will be okay and it's his loss. His head is too far you know where to see that clearly right now but he will when it's too late and that's something he will have to own and live with.
This is where I'm at too in my sitch. It's all about being able to lay your head on your pillow at night, right? My mother-in-law told me last week that she knows this is all going to catch up with my W at some point. I'm not waiting for that point, but I know it's not my problem.
I wish you well and I wish you continued peace. Sounds like you are getting to a good place of detachment.
All the best.
Me 42, Wife 39; Married 16; Together 17; Kids: D13, S10 Wife asks for Divorce: 03/19/13 Reconcile: 07/07/13 Round 2 Starts: 02/19/17 Apartment Life: 04/21/17 PA Confirmed: 05/23/17
It usually catches up with them hopefully your W will figure it out before it's too late. I think that's why it's so important to remove yourself from their craziness so. At when things go south you're not there to blame as part of the problem.
I do agree with a lot of why Sandi says about WAW/WW... I hope you'll read her advice if you haven't already. It's so easy to give advice to others and not necessarily follow it in our own sitch - I speak from experience haha
H and I had a R talk last night. He just said he didn't know if he was 'in or out'. That he 'wants things to get better but isn't sure they will.' He said he can't say if he's committed to making things work or not. That some days he is and some days he isn't. I just said that mind as well be a no. He said well if I want an answer at this specific moment in time then he's done. That things have been bad and he doesn't want to live that way. My response was I didn't want to live this way either. I also said that it hasn't always been this way and that doesn't mean it will always be this way if two people are committed to making it better. I again I said I wasn't going to continue going to counseling. He said that the point of going to counseling was to see if we could make it work. My response was it is pointless if his mind is that he's done.
He said all I do is push him away.
In my gut I feel like he's done and hasn't want to move out because of the baby. The counselor even told H he's obviously checked out.
I'm not sure where I go from here. I'm not as detached as I thought I was because hearing he's done yet again hurts me
Sorry to hear this. I wish I had something to give you for encouragement. I have said this before, but I still think there is some issue in him that isn't directly tied to you. In other words, whatever it is, I think he would have gone through the same behavior if he had been in the same situation with some other woman.
Believe me when I tell you that I understand the frustration, hurt, and anger you might feel when your H does not open up and share with you what's going on in his head/heart.
I have no doubt in the world that you will be fine, no matter what he decides. In fact, you may experience getting to the "fine" level quicker than the last time you went this route. I'm sure 25yrsmlc and you can really relate about being faced the second time with the craziness the H has brought into the MR. It doesn't mean you don't feel the sadness, hurt, anger, etc. However, you know you won't spend the rest of your life waiting for him, and trying to become whatever the heck he is seeking in a MR........while he's doing whatever he's doing in the dark and away from the W. He continues to say things are not getting better, but what is he doing to help it get better? Ugh! I'm not even M to him and I can get riled.
Of course, I don't know your H, and I may be as wrong as sin.......but I don't think he is as strong as you. He can't cope under pressure, like you. He won't lay his cards on the table to know what you are really dealing with......and have a clue as to how to fix the problem. The answers he gives sound immature to me, and some of his behavior says the same. So, IDK if he will ever be the H you need. It's not easy when the woman outgrows her H (so to speak). This happens with lots of couples. They get M when they are young, and traditionally, the H would be older than his W. ( I have a theory as to why, but I'll save it for another time). Sometimes, the W starts emotionally/mentally maturing at a faster speed than her H. If she is a realist and knows what needs to be done to maintain an orderly family & lifestyle, and hopefully have a productive life........and if he does not have the same drive, or the same goals, and agrees in how to get there with her and the kids in tow.....then she's going to experience a lot of frustration with him. It may look as if he's not stepping up and she has to tell him everything to do......etc., etc. It's like he lays down or digs his heels in the ground and refuses to cooperate. Sometimes it may feel as if he's dead weight on her, ..........or he's taking a detour to something else, .........or cutting out all together.
My heart feels for you, and I wish he would get his act together. Maybe he will continue seeing the counselor for himself. If not, I think he will take detours looking for something that makes him feel better about himself.
I know you are really busy. It is good to hear about the baby and the good care you've received. Take an old fool's advice and give your body time to heal, before you jump back into everything as though you had not recently given birth. You can hurt yourself in ways that take a long time to get over. Listen to me telling a medical student who has had three babies.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
So what am I supposed to do? I don't want a D obviously. I just don't get how he doesn't know if he wants to be in this M yet says ILY kisses me etc. I mean don't get me wrong he's still very distant but why do those things. Is he that sick that he's just doing those to lead me on until he leaves?
Do I continue to go to MC with him if he wants to go? He says I'm pushing him into a decision and he needs time. That I want to tell him how he feels etc. it's far from the truth but it's how he feels. I don't feel 3 months is pushing him to just want to know if he wants to see if we can make this work.
You're right I know this is within him. I said in counseling I don't know what switch flips that he goes from being so happy and loving to the tin man.
What if you suggest he continues with this particular counselor (since the C has met and talked with you) and then when/if the C wants you to join......you can.
I don't know what your H wants from you. When you act happy and loving and all is well in the world, he seems okayish. But did he not continue with his vague R with the coworker, as well as stay out late without his family? Did you ever see any action from him that indicated he was trying to put forth effort in making "things better", too, or was he just expecting you to make it better?
You might want to consider privately meeting with the counselor to see if he has recommendations, since he may know the other side of your H's problem. However, he may not advise you to stay or leave.
I just don't know anything different to suggest that hasn't already been said. I think you are looking at him and wondering how much longer it will be until he decides what he wants. Makes sense, but maybe you should think of how much longer you can hang on. IDK, just thinking out loud here.
I will suggest this much........if things get no better and divorce seems to be getting closer, consider physical separation before going straight to divorce. I have known many people over my lifetime that separated for a while and then reconciled. These days, couples go straight for the jugular. Sleep in the same bed one night and divorce the next day. If you discover he is in an affair, then I wouldn't blame you for going to divorce. At the same time, I don't want you to get obsessed over the possibility of OW, again.
It must be miserable being in this spot you've been in for three months. The baby will naturally sense your tenseness, nervousness, and frustration. I hope somehow, someway, you can let it go enough to not miss one second of enjoying that baby boy. They stay tiny for such a short time, don't they? Goodness, that brings back sweet memories, and tears to my eyes. ((hugs)).
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Please read Sandi's post ^^^ above, carefully...the part about a separation first - really struck me.
I also read an article about divorced couples who actually reconcile and almost all of them said that a physical separation to work on themselves as individuals, really was vital.
[quote=T0324]So what am I supposed to do? I don't want a D obviously.
actually that^^ is Not obvious to me. What would a divorce mean to you?
I just don't get how he doesn't know if he wants to be in this M yet says ILY kisses me etc. You do NOT have to "get it". You will likely NOT ever "get it."
Here is a small, (I hope), 2 x 4....
All you have to do is decide if what you are getting is enough for you. If it is, then accept it & stop requiring, or acting as if you require, more from him.
The best predictor of future behavior is the past behavior...
I mean don't get me wrong he's still very distant but why do those things. Is he that sick that he's just doing those to lead me on until he leaves?
SIGH....you (we) ask way too many questions without good answers. We should start a club and call it the "Ask Why'? Club.
That way, we can spend chunks of our waking hours obsessing about
someone who a) thinks of us 0- 1/10 as much,
and or b) who either lacks an empathy gene which we will never relate to (OR understand)
OR c) is too psychologically damaged and screwed up for us to ever understand...
and OR d) who may someday come out of their fog, and then communicate their wishes clearly...at which point we can address our own reaction...
Meanwhile we can keep circling and fuming...till we feel sick inside, or worn out, or bitter...
OR OR OR...?
WE can make a deciosn, and take steps to regain our own power, (alone??) and write the next chapter of our lives, instead of letting someone else write how our story goes.
Do I continue to go to MC with him if he wants to go? He says I'm pushing him into a decision and he needs time. That I want to tell him how he feels etc. it's far from the truth but it's how he feels. I don't feel 3 months is pushing him to just want to know if he wants to see if we can make this work.
From where I sit, he's been clear in that he cannot or will not give you the certainty you say you want and need. You want certainty before you can give your heart fully (warmly and with trust) and he can't/won't give you that, without your warmth and trust.
You're still at an impasse. What has changed?
As for what he feels/means/says - a year ago my h and i were on national TV discussing how we kept our m strong even with differing political views and it was a light hearted fun piece, h calling it the "best thing we have done a in years" and laughed our rear ends off. A short while later I discovered he had been making Alaskan plans again, and my h completely denied wanting a divorce when I asked, AND he assured me he would say so, if he did...
but with his actions (and indifference when I was sick) he practically dared me to file. My point...Pay no attention to his words...decide what you can live with as it is.
Finally, please explain so I can understand, what specifically is confusing you?
Is it his actions/behaviors or your own fears of what they mean?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Hi Sandi, thanks for stopping by. I always appreciate your words.
When I was asking normal H was better in his actions. He stopped going out, left his phone out, etc. however this entire time even when it comes to him being asked about how he feels he says I don't know and I'm not sure I want to be together. So his actions get somewhat better. He still remained distant but he couldn't say he was in/committed.
I'm not concerned about OW anymore. I've let that go. If it's happening then it's only happening at during work hours or it's just via the phone but I've let it go and don't consume myself with that anymore at all. C also feels there isn't someone else. He's point blank asked H several times (not that I believe he would admit it) but bottom line I've let it go unless something else comes up then I'll revisit it if needed.
H saw the counselor alone and so did I. The counselor doesn't want to see us alone. He wants to see us together. We've gone twice. H followed what the counselor asked if him the first time. This last week he hasn't so much. The counselor told him to be more affectionate and open to me. He hasn't done that. The only thing that has changed is that he kisses me in the morning before he leaves for work even if I'm sleeping which is what he used to do but stopped. Other then that he's changed no other behaviors but I haven't said anything because over the weekend his words were that he was done.
The counselor said we are both still waiting for each other to make a move. That I'm anxious because ah chose to step out of the M before so I'm just waiting for that to happen again. He said H is waiting for me to be warm and loving so he knows that I will be that person again before he can be affectionate and open wth me. He told H that he needs to be the one to take the risk. That he doesn't know I will be that person even though I am telling him I will but that H needs to take the risk and change his behavior so we can get out of this place we are in and move forward to repair our M. So in my mind if H doesn't do this then that's his decision that it's over.
I'm leaving it be... going to go back to just being my normal self. Acting as if the words he says don't affect me. That was the only time he seemed to respond well. He knows if he's truly done he needs to leave. I made it very clear when he told me Jess done that he needed to make other living arrangements. That I refused to live with someone that didn't want to be with me as their wife and I sure as hell wasnt going to live with him as a roommate.
Hi 25 --
Thanks for all your words of wisdom, I'm on my phone so I may not fully address everything. I do not understand why H goes to counseling and does the things he does but cannot verbalize giving me certainty. I know I shouldn't waste my time trying to understand. That's just where I'm at.
I'm trying to mentally prepare myself for divorce. I hate the feeling of waiting for the other shoe to drop. We are scheduled for counseling again this week. I don't remind him of the appointments or ask about it. I'm not even sure what to say this week. I want to let the C know H said he was done and couldn't give me any other answers. I'm not sure though if that will be helpful
Divorce for me means forever. I will not work things out with h after that. I won't put the boys through it again. Ask as I said if he leaves that's it also. I won't go yo with the boys with him being back and forth. We spent so much time discussing this when he came back. I was given so many empty promises that he would never leave again that he doesn't want to feel the way he felt again.
My mind tells me if he leaves he is going to be sorry and that he can't see any of that right now because all of his needs are being met in this home right now. We sleep next to each other every night. Spend time together as a family. Beside him being distant everything is almost the same. We spend the weekends together. We went to lunch yesterday in between soccer games with some other families and he asked me if it was okay if he went to look at boats at the boat place next door. A month ago he wouldn't have done that... he's texting me during the day to ask about the baby and if I'm tired from him being up so much. I give short but nice answers. I send him pictures every other day... so I'm reciprocating a little here and there.
I'm not sure if it's safe to open my heart and be warm when he can't give me any certainty.
The way the C phrased it was that H needed to take the risk in order for me to reciprocate because he stepped out before and he knows I'm all in but I don't know if he is. He doesn't know if he is.
Sorry this is all over the place. I hope this makes sense.
What I was getting is not enough. He knows I need more. I said I did. That's why the counselor told him he needed to show me more affection and be more available.
Well against my better judgement I went to C. H said he was 50/50 staying going when C asked him. C had me ask him ... he said he is done. He's done with this M and being unhappy. That nothing he does is good enough for me. That we take one step forward three steps back. He's realized it will never change.
C spent time discussing how we got here. Also that these issues will be continued on in H next relationship. C asked h if he was willing to give it 2 weeks. H agreed. He told H he needed to text me something positive twice a day and take me on two dates between now and our next appt in 2 weeks. He asked me to be loving reciprocate and not ask H any questions about our M.
I am devastated all over again.
I'm working on accepting its over. I'm not sure how to be pisitivr for 2 weeks.
H tried to kiss me goodbye as we were leaving counseling. I just turned away and got in my car. Don't bother kissing me after you just told me it's over.
I'm so sorry you have to go through this with a tiny baby. My ex was the same way in counseling -- he was waiting for it to be a magic bullet instead of a slog. He wasn't up for the slog. He wanted to party.
You have inside you a mighty woman. You parented little tiny children, worked full time, went to school, had a monster commute, and still managed to look adorable when you wanted to when you went through this the first time. Whatever happens here, you are going to be AWESOME. You should not need to earn your way back into his heart. And if he doesn't want to earn his way back into yours, then he is losing out on one h3ll of a woman.
Remember what you're worth, T. You are MIGHTY.
Me42, H40 D12, S8, S7 A revealed: 7/13 Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15
Well against my better judgement I went to C. H said he was 50/50 staying going when C asked him. C had me ask him ... he said he is done. He's done with this M and being unhappy. That nothing he does is good enough for me. That we take one step forward three steps back. He's realized it will never change. this^^ is about the 8th time you've had this^^^ exact conversation. Seriously. There is a different answer to the C than you, which has also happened before. Perhaps you ask a different way, like with a lot of expectations, or IDK
C spent time discussing how we got here. Also that these issues will be continued on in H next relationship. C asked h if he was willing to give it 2 weeks. H agreed. He told H he needed to text me something positive twice a day and take me on two dates between now and our next appt in 2 weeks. He asked me to be loving reciprocate and not ask H any questions about our M. So, you both agreed to this^^^ and then below, you act as if there's no agreement. I'm confused.
I get the feeling you'll return in two weeks to hear how it went and be in the same place.
Either your h is really on the fence or he wants you to file. But I have the strong impression your h won't file. Period.
I am devastated all over again. I'm working on accepting its over. I'm not sure how to be pisitivr for 2 weeks. Okay you went in with low expectations and then it SEEMS like all you heard was the negative he gave you, (not shocking)
then you agreed to be positive but you don't really intend to be...
I wish I'd seen the MC appointment b/c it's as if you didn't hear whatever your h said to your C and you only heard what he said to you. What did the C say when he heard 2 different answers? That's something crucial to address.
Did the C act as if all that mattered was what your h said to him, or what?
H tried to kiss me goodbye as we were leaving counseling. I just turned away and got in my car. Don't bother kissing me after you just told me it's over.
this^^ means you already broke a promise to the C. So now your h can say "she's still cold to me so why bother?"
I mean, you are on the fence and it shows, and it's this impasse that I spoke of - and your C speaks of. Then when your h does make a positive move, you turn away b/c he also says (what I see as) cowardly, on the fence remarks about his commitment.
Much as I want to slap some sense into him, (which is a lot) I also want to know why YOU Would agree to something in MC, and then break that agreement 20 minutes later.
*Why not refuse in the office to his face? Own it and leave? OR do what you promise?
You cannot expect your h not to ever notice that you are cold even though you just promises otherwise, it's like you just gave him "proof" that nothing he DOES is ever going to make a difference.
and then you wait for the other shoe to drop.
Both of you need to get off the fence, either way.
((( )))
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
His answer to the C was minutes before his answer to me. All I asked was if H was committed to our M. Then he gave me the answer that was 'tbh I'm done'. C said usually when you ask people that they can't answer because it's a difficult question. So he said it means a lot or speaks a lot that H can come out and say he's done. The only reason I asked that in C is because the C told me to ask.
I don't know that H is on the fence. I think he just doesn't want to be seen as the bad guy. I heard what H said but everything pretty much surrounded on negative and how he was done and it would never change.
The C asked for 2 weeks because he said we haven't had 2?' Weeks of positive. He said if it really is over we should both try before we throw in the towel.
The C took H being done when he said it to me and focused on that. He didn't focus on the 50/50 answer.
I want to be positive but I don't know how. I asked the C what am I supposed to do. He said just not to have R talks and reciprocate H actions if he does them. He told me he would be shocked in a good way if H actually did the things he promised he would. So it makes me believe the C knows H is done too.
The kiss thing .. I was hurt. He just told me it was over and yo be honest I just wanted to get in the car and process it alone.
He didn't come home til late and I just fell asleep so we didn't say goodnight or anything.
I'm scared. I'm scared to be positive make an effort and show up in 2 weeks to hear he's done and it's a divorce all over again.
I'm not on the fence. .. I just don't know what the hell im going to do to save my M. I believe it's past that point. I don't know how to be positive with low expectations. I'm trying to figure that out in my head.
And may bell, just saw your post. Thank you for your kind words. I hope I can become that person again. She seems so far away right now.
T0, I have not read the other replies so I'm going by my gut to each of your comments, okay? So I'm not sure of other info but just taking this post (below) and what your session was like...
Originally Posted By: T0324
Hey 25
His answer to the C was minutes before his answer to me. All I asked was if H was committed to our M. so I assume he told the C that he IS committed to the marriage but when asked by YOU, he felt somehow, otherwise. Which is a "fence like" answer
b/c if it were really All about not wanting to look bad, then he'd give you the same answer he gave the C, at least in front of the C. Make sense?
Then he gave me the answer that was 'tbh I'm done'. C said usually when you ask people that they can't answer because it's a difficult question. So he said it means a lot or speaks a lot that H can come out and say he's done. The only reason I asked that in C is because the C told me to ask. I don't know that H is on the fence. I think he just doesn't want to be seen as the bad guy. see above^^ he would not bother to "lie" to the C and then only tell the "truth" to you. I read it as a "conditional response" when you asked.
it's the whole impasse we have discussed at quite some length
I heard what H said but everything pretty much surrounded on negative and how he was done and it would never change.
The C asked for 2 weeks because he said we haven't had 2?' Weeks of positive. He said if it really is over we should both try before we throw in the towel.
From what I've followed on your thread, this^^^ is true, right? I mean, in the past 3+ months, there have not been more than a few days go by without you saying you are "just done" correct?
(btw, SIDENOTE when you say it, it would really hurt me and the r. It's "Divorce" talk, and yet it obviously been a bluff so far. It's always conditioned on something else your h can do . You say "I'm just done IF IF IF HE won't make you feel safe.
I'm not sure he knows how to "make you feel" safe, but when he does the small gestures designed for it, he feels rebuffed. .
The C took H being done when he said it to me and focused on that. He didn't focus on the 50/50 answer. [b] I want to be positive but I don't know how. that's ^^very VERY significant to me.
Much as we harp on his idiotic behavior here, this^^ is something YOU can work on.
I asked the C what am I supposed to do. He said just not to have R talks and reciprocate H actions if he does them.[/b] this is about YOU^^^ . For 2 weeks this ^^^ is where your focus needs to be. This is what you are responsible for and what you CAN control
He told me he would be shocked in a good way if H actually did the things he promised he would. So it makes me believe the C knows H is done too. You are mind reading the C now!...
What you KNOW is that the C gave you guys a paradigm, a test. Your h passed the first part of that that test...
The kiss thing .. I was hurt. He just told me it was over and yo be honest I just wanted to get in the car and process it alone.
HE ALSO said he was committed to the marriage! And He also agreed to try for 2 weeks.
YOU also agreed to try and reciprocate his actions right after your h's main complaint was that no matter what he does, you won't be warm or reciprocate.
He didn't come home til late and I just fell asleep so we didn't say goodnight or anything. I'm scared. I'm scared to be positive make an effort and show up in 2 weeks to hear he's done and it's a divorce all over again.
T0,
1) TBH, no, I don't have a lot of hope for your m working out this round. And it's not all about him.
2) But I have SOME hope b/c behind all his fears AND yours, there is love.
3) My fear is that you are not doing your part in THIS^^^^ scenario, and others like it.
4) While your fears are understandable. There is another fear to consider -
What about the fear of you NOT taking a chance for 2 weeks, and knowing that in your h's eyes, you refused? What about over estimating the sacrifice of a 2 week "be warm & reciprocate" challenge? It's TWO weeks...
What about how you will view yourself later, when you are alone and in a regretful mood? Because at this moment, you are feeding into his view and from what I can tell,
your h is very needy, very afraid of never being forgiven, has poor boundaries with other women (in general, I mean) and also, he loves you and the boys.
I think he wants to start fresh. As the groundwork for that (later boundaries would come, of course) for now, all the C asked for & which you both agreed to do, is be warm to each other and reciprocate. For 2 weeks.
I hope you can emerge from this ordeal TRULY knowing you did all you could, to keep your m together and these 3 little men in an intact marriage.
Watch Amy Cuddy's TED talk about "Faking it till You Become it" and Sean Achor's piece on positive psychology. They have real data.
((( )))
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Hey 25. I'm going to get. Back and reply to all of this after I read it a few times but I wanted to clarify that H did not tell the C he was committed. He said he was 50/50.
When I asked if he was committed he said he was done. These questions from the C and I were only a few minutes apart.
I don't know how to quote on my phone so I'm just going to go down in order of your post and try to address everything that way so hopefully it's easier to follow.
So H has been saying he's done since March. I haven't told him I am done. I've said it here but not to him. I possibly said it once back in March that if he didn't come home to never come home again when he was going out one night and said he might not come home. Other than that that I can recall I haven't said those words to him. Usually my words are quite the opposite.
I do not understand why he's 50/50 on being in this marriage and to me he's done. Even answering the same question with a different answer to the C. That was my reason for thinking he was trying to not be the bad guy with him but what you say makes sense that if he didn't want to be that person he would be dishonest with both of us. Point taken
In the past three months we have some sort of R discussion brought up by either of us. That's what H is referring to. He wants to talk about nothing and he left alone. He needs time, etc. he only wants to discuss our R with the counselor and not at all any other time. That's why the C gave me this as to not engage in any R talk for the next two weeks.
The C said H knows what he needs to do to make me feel safe but the concerning part is he knowingly chooses not to. Which is exactly why the C said he would be shocked if H sends me two texts a day and takes me on 2 dates. Because last week he didn't show me more affection like the C asked him to .. and the C said his actions are speaking loud that he's completely checked out. He told us both last night were going to end up getting divorced. I shed some tears and said I loved H and didn't want to lose my husband.
I truly don't know how to be positive. I'm trying to fake it. If he does initiate a date night I don't even know what to talk about. The last time we went to dinner was in the beginning of April and he sprung on me at dinner that he was going out the next night and I wasn't invited. I just sat there calmly and didn't get into anything. How can I be this fun living carefree person knowing a divorce is coming. I know I need to be able to be that person and I'm trying to find her in me
So what if H doesn't initiate texts or initiate a date night. Am I supposed to then do those things or just do nothing and go back to the C in 2 weeks to say none of those things happened
If I'm being raw and honest --- I fear him not doing these actions will hurt me in these two weeks. Because in my mind that is him showing me he is done. His lack of action to do the things he C asked is him showing his decision. His lack of action.
H complaint isn't that I don't reciprocate it's that I don't notice that he's trying. That what he does isn't good enough. That I can't take what he's doing as improvement that I have to talk about it. The C said I like to talk and H likes to be left alone when there's a problem. ... And with the kiss thing / the words him being committed have not exited his mouth since this started. He only shook the C hand agreeing to do the things he asked so as the C said - 'lets at least say we tried to make this work before you throw in the towel'
I know I have to stop my negative thinking. I need to recognize the positive from him. There's not much positive right now. I did not expect H to tell me he was done in C. Because last week in C he told the C he only says that when he's mad but didn't mean it. Now yesterday he says he's done when asked directly whereas previously he couldn't or wouldn't say that.
I spent a lot of time and tears last night and today. I know what I have to do and I'm goi g to do it. I'm scared. I'm scared to get more hurt. I'm scared to lose him forever and I'm scared to get my hopes up. I really thought yesterday at C it was going to go differently.
I love H. I don't want to lose him. I don't want to break up my family. I don't want any of that at all.
Also I have been kind to H. The only thing I've done is have the R talks. But I send him a picture of the baby everyday. I ask him how his day is. I have been doing the things the C said before this.
But as far as todaycstarting my 2 Week commitment. This morning we had to go to our boys school for end of the year awards. He was quiet in the car I made small conversation then took his cues that he didn't want to talk and kept quiet. We had a good time with the boys and came home he had to leave for work. He kissed me goodbye said he loved me and told me to have a good day. I told him I loved him and to drive safe. I asked him if he wanted me to make him lunch before he left and had cut up strawberries I bought for him at the farmers market yesterday to take to work.
The baby had a dr appt. I didn't wait for H to text me to ask me about it. I called him we talked and I ended the conversation. That's it for today. I haven't heard from him otherwise texting me like The C asked. I think if he doesn't do it tomorrow then I'll feel a little More discouraged but im trying not to let it affect me. I need to give him no ammunition against me in C. We go back in 2 weeks to reevaluate how we did with the things the C asked us.
I appreciate your help 25 and challenge me or give me a difficult time all you want. That's what I need to see a way other than my own. I do not want a divorce. I know ther is nothing here that's broken beyond repair. But I also know my H needs to be the one to commit back to me. He has to want me in his life as his wife. He knows that's what I want. He just doesn't want that right now.
Who am I supposed to be and what am I supposed to do?
I don't know how to be warm and loving without coming off as pursuing.
Also, he hasn't done anything the C asked. No two texts a day. Yesterday was the first day but if he doesn't today I feel that's my answer that he's done
Can you go back to remember simply being a warm and loving wife when things were good between the two of you? be like that. Block out all the crap going on and bring yourself to a time when you guys were a married couple not on the brink of divorce and be that warm and loving wife you were.
What Ginger said. But also, can you try to not see every single thing he does or doesn't do as code for "he's done" or "he's not done"? HE has said to you over and over, that he doesn't KNOW if he's done or not done. I know you think, well for crying out loud, either someone's in or they're out.... and I thought that too about my own sitch, when I kept saying, but either you want this marriage or you don't, and he kept mumbling, I don't know what I want. That just didn't make sense to me. And I sense that is how you are feeling too. But the further I get away from those conversations, the more I truly think he was being honest. I don't think he DID know. And my trying to decide for him, or pushing, pushing pushing him to declare one way or the other, pushed him further down the road in the OPPOSITE WAY. I see in you that Type A, who wants their food brought to the table in a timely manner, their photos developed and delivered within an hour, the dry cleaning dropped off and ready for pick up the same day, etc. And there's nothing wrong with that. I think we all do, to a certain degree. But relationships are not like that. As much as we want answers NOW, sometimes we just have to sit with it, be still, and give them time. When you feel like you are going to scream, "JUST CALL IT ONE WAY OR OTHER"- have a back up plan, whatever works for you. Walk away, get in a closet and take 10 deep breaths, get on here, call a friend, take a shower and scream it there. Then collect yourself, and move on. Just my thoughts. I want you to be at peace with yourself, no matter what happens to the marriage. (((( )))))
M-60 H-51 M-14 years BD 12/26/16 S 1/1/17
"First the pain, then the rising." Glennon Doyle Melton
He did say he was done at C ... so that's why I'm feeling this way now. Before at C he told the counselor he only said he was done when he was angry but didn't mean it. But this last appointment he said he's finally feeling his decision is that he's done.
Yesterday I just acted as if everything was fine. I didn't hear from him like the C asked but he did text me about something related to the kids. So after I answered that I asked about his day. I didn't call to see when he was coming home or say anything when he came home later than usual. I had dinner ready and the kids taken care of. I went to cuddle with him in bed because that's something I would normally do. I kissed him and we talked for a little bit just about nothing important and went to bed. He kissed me again this morning before he left for work and said ILY and that was it.
I don't think I'll text him today. We are supposed to be going to a graduation party this evening. I'll just be my normal self ... with possible a drink to take off the edge haha.
I'm trying to eliminate my negative thinking and I probably do it because I'm trying to protect myself from getting my hopes up. I'm feeling super discouraged because of his words in counseling. That he's done. It really discourages me and I feel like it means a lot that he said it out loud to the counselor instead of saying he didn't mean it like he had I previous sessions. Combining that with him not doing any of the things the C asked really has my head spinning. What ocelot and I'm trying not to let it consume my thoughts or drive my actions. Typing it here helps
Who am I supposed to be and what am I supposed to do?
I don't know how to be warm and loving without coming off as pursuing.
Also, he hasn't done anything the C asked. No two texts a day. Yesterday was the first day but if he doesn't today I feel that's my answer that he's done
Stop this^^^ thinking. It's 2 weeks. Please drop the scorecard. Just get through the next 13 days and Not do any r talk till you see your C again.
It's not easy but it's not complicated...
more later
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
He did say he was done at C ... Omg he said to YOU when you asked, "to be honest, I"m done" and yet 2 minutes earlier in front of you and the C, he said he was 50/50." The C saw him give 2 semi different answers, as did you. But here you only mention the negative. This is a huge pattern.
so that's why I'm feeling this way now. Before at C he told the counselor he only said he was done when he was angry but didn't mean it. But this last appointment he said he's finally feeling his decision is that he's done. The revision continues and you are ignoring the red flag piece that he says he's "done" when he's angry...
How do you ask the question when you ask him, b/c I don't think you ask, rarely.
If my h were upset with me and THEN asked me if I felt committed, I can see saying "I don't know"...or worse.
CONTEXT matters and here^^ you have your h admitting he says it when he's angry, AND it's not what he said to the C in front of you.
I would just stop honing in on that, b/c it's not nearly as significant as you are making it, imo.
Yesterday I just acted as if everything was fine. I didn't hear from him like the C asked but he did text me about something related to the kids. So after I answered that I asked about his day. I didn't call to see when he was coming home or say anything when he came home later than usual. I had dinner ready and the kids taken care of. I went to cuddle with him in bed because that's something I would normally do. I kissed him and we talked for a little bit just about nothing important and went to bed. He kissed me again this morning before he left for work and said ILY and that was it. this^^^ all seems good and positive to me.
I don't think I'll text him today. We are supposed to be going to a graduation party this evening. I'll just be my normal self ... with possible a drink to take off the edge haha. I'm trying to eliminate my negative thinking and I probably do it because I'm trying to protect myself from getting my hopes up. I'm feeling super discouraged because of his words in counseling. That he's done. Forget the words in counseling and focus on the 2 weeks. Otherwise you could use those comments for the rest of your life.
It really discourages me and I feel like it means a lot that he said it out loud to the counselor instead of saying he didn't mean it like he had I previous sessions.
Pffft! I'm a wordsmith, yet I am just lost about when he said what, and when he meant it and what he said in front of the C, then to you, etc. Can you just Stop asking or pondering the past questions/answers, since they are confusing/confused
and now, in the past?
Combining that with him not doing any of the things the C asked really has my head spinning. What ocelot and I'm trying not to let it consume my thoughts or drive my actions. Typing it here helps
There was affection and peace. You didn't ask him about his expected arrival time and then you didn't say anything about him being later than usual...um, okay well, no offense, but is that something you are upset about or feeling disrespected by?
Because I don't get that. I'd see the evening as a win.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I wouldn't say disrespected... but our son had a project H was supposed to help him with. He said he would be home by 7. He walked in around 830. Normally I would call and see where he was or when he was coming home. It's definitely a lot to juggle making all the teachers gifts, cupcakes for end of the year parties, a newborn eating every 2 hours (in a pro at breastfeeding in any parking lot in the car lol) and running the boys to soccer practice, making dinner feeding the dogs etc etc. The last time H left me with a list like that and didn't come home til late with no heads up I called him and we got in an argument because I said I felt very alone and needed help. BUT today is the last day of school and the boys are so excited!!
Normally he would text and say he's running late or text on his way home. He doesn't do that anymore. So I guess just a little frustrating about the project. Normally I would step in and do it and be angry inside about it but instead I left it be and H did it with him when he got home. I thanked him when we were laying in bed for doing the project (making a rocket) with our oldest. I said I know it meant a lot to S and you guys did a really good job. Joking about how it might have looked if I did it.
I'm trying not to focus on him saying he's done. I promise I asked it the same way the C asked him. That's when the. C said for someone to be able to answer that question like that it means a lot. He told us we're going to end up getting a divorce. But he also said he's a marriage counselor and doesn't want to give up just yet.
I think if you don't stop these negative behaviors of yours you will have major regrets some day. Why not do as others have said and just take a break from all this stuff and try to remember the man you fell in love with and pretend that he is standing there (he is, he just has a lot of crap covering him up right now).
The fundamental rule we are told is to believe nothing they say and half of what you do. Yet, this is now your mantra. He said he was done. He said he was done. Guess what, he also said he would give it another two weeks.
You sit there criticizing him for every mistake he makes and for not following the counselor's instructions. Yet, you are the one who first violated that by refusing his kiss and being snotty to him. You seem to be very good at holding him accountable and letting yourself off the hook.
I'm not trying to be harsh here. I know you've been through a lot and you have postpartem hormones coursing through you. But, your marriage seems to be at a critical juncture. You are not behaving as someone who wants it to continue. Where is everything you have learned here? I see no DBing go on whatsoever. Just bratty, negative talk and actions from you.
Spend the rest of the time you have with him being the girl he would be an idiot to leave. You know that. Now do it and stop whining.
Also, he hasn't done anything the C asked. No two texts a day. Yesterday was the first day but if he doesn't today I feel that's my answer that he's done
Just a guess that he saw your rejection of the kiss as you rejecting "him". You weren't really rejecting the man, you were just punishing him for telling you he was done.
I see you both punishing each other. He doesn't do what you think he should.....so you react in some way that punishes him. He sees it and thinks there is no pleasing you. So, both of you are in this vicious cycle. You love each other, but both of you are stubborn, and waits on the other one.
You are angry at him b/c he has not done what the C said to do. You are standing with your hands on hip and tapping your toe. And he is doing what he does when he is frustrated.
Do you want the man, or not? No "if, and, or but" attached. Don't say you want him under certain terms, b/c we get it. Truth is.........it isn't working. If you don't want him, then tell him to go. If you do want him............then you've got to behave like a woman who accepts him just as he is right now. You have got to stop the attitude of being "done"...... if you want him. Why? B/c he is not going to try and live by some standard you lay out for him to fill. IMHO, that is what he's fighting against. He believes he has given his all for you since his affair (whether you agree or not), but somehow he senses you standing over him with a ruler in your hand. I don't claim to know a lot about men, but I know enough to tell you he is through living with a W who he feels has a criticizing/negative attitude toward him. He will find someone who makes him feel good about himself!
Who are you suppose be and how do you act positive for two weeks? Stop measuring everything he does. Stop closing your heart to him and showing him cold hardness. Start thinking about the time you fell in love with him. Who were you then? Who did he see coming down the aisle on his wedding day? Who was that woman? I can almost hear your answers before I send this post. I do not disagree with your arguments, b/c I am like you in some ways. Of course, I can see your stitch more objectively than I could see my own.
I am not telling you the decision you should make. I am only saying what I think it would take to show him a positive W for the next two weeks.....or longer. Someone will have to bend..........or there will be no M. I don't think it will be him. I'm not suggesting you turn your head if he is being unfaithful or anything else you are not willing to tolerate.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Hi ownit - I had a long response typed while the baby was sleeping but he woke and I forgot to hit submit !
I'm not being negative or anything to him anymore. I'm going to RBI I like you all and the C said. There's no point in mulling over the past it happened here we are let's move forward. So I'm starting as if yesterday fresh. I'm Not going to say I'll be perfect but I'm going to do my best. I will come here to jot down my feelings instead of saying it to him. Thank you for your words. I really appreciate them. I know the man I fell in love with is there somewhere. We are both ugly people right now. The C said we are both hurt and both waiting on the other person. He emphasizes that H needs to be that person to jump in but he hasn't so I'm taking it upon myself. The C said it's hard for. S to be warm and loving because I'm anxious and H refuses to give me any reassurance. So I thought H would come around and be that person but he hasn't. So I'm going to take the leap of faith and open my heart to be warm and loving I feel it's my only chance.
Hi Sandi thanks for coming by I always appreciate your wisdom and words.
I am angry at him for everything in the last 3 months and I know it has radiated from me. I sat back the last 2 days since C and thought about everything that has happened as objectively as I was able. I thought back about the things to me that aren't a big deal but it was his olive branch. He drove over to the condo in the middle of the night to bring me my special breastfeeding pillow. When we got in an argument and I left and refused his help he called my family to make sure someone came down to help me bring all my stuff up. He was texting daily to see if I needed things on his way home. This was all just 2 weeks ago. Then we had a big blow out about me catching him in a lie and him refusing it. That's when everything changed for him. He realized no matter what he did it wasn't good enough. I stopped asking questions in those last 2 weeks but wasn't necessarily loving. I was kind but didn't go out of my way to be affectionate
I said it counseling it hurt me to continue to reach out and he didn't reciprocate. He said 'now you know how I've felt'.
I'm going to be that girl. I think it will help school is out for the boys. Less stress for me and soccer is on break so really all I have to worry about is school and the rest is just fun for the boys and I.
I was thinking of suggesting a date night if he doesn't in the next few days depending on how things are going... I know the C said he wanted him to do it. But if he doesn't I don't mind asking if you guys think that's not out of the question.
So my answer is yes I want this man. I don't want the M the way it is but that can be worked on at a later time.
I just am afraid/scared me doing all of this won't matter to him.
There you go TO. The date night sounds like a good idea if he doesn't bring it up, but don't wait too long. You may have to do a little damage control for a bit and put yourself out there more than you have. You wouldn't have so much emotion about this if you didn't care, so yes, vent to us and be loving and kind to him no matter what he does now. If you can begin to turn the ship here you will have lots of time in the future to deal with the anger and the rest. For now, just be kind, loving, affectionate, thoughtful . . .
I do really struggle that he hasn't done anything the C asked. He shook his hand and agreed to do it. I just feel it's very telling.
I'm not sure if there is OW. I haven't found any concrete evidence but he is always on the FB messenger throughout the day so it does make me concerned he's having his needs met elsewhere and that's why he has no desire to try and make this work.
Well I'm going to a graduation party. He's supposed to meet the boys and I here. I am going to need a couple drinks to help fake it haha
TO, let go of what he is saying and doing. If YOU want to try to save your marriage, then it is on YOU. He is not living up to his end of the bargain. He is not doing what you want or the counselor wants. He is not in a place to be the one to save this marriage. Why can't you get that? The question is very simple, do you want a chance to save your marriage. If you do, forget about what he hasn't done and focus on you and how you need to behave.
You are going to have to let go of the other woman thing. There more than likely is another woman. Mine lied to me for 3 years and maintained an affair with someone who lived 4.5 hours away. Every time I took my kids to a competition, he went there. He called me and acted normal. There were no suspicious bills or phone calls.
Your entire attitude and focus on this stuff is turning it into a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you keep thinking it will happen (the D), then it will because you will cause it to happen. If you change your attitude pronto, you MAY have a chance.
The emotional violation you have suffered is far worse than the sexual. If you can live with that, you can live with him having sex with someone else. Just protect yourself.
I do really struggle that he hasn't done anything the C asked. He shook his hand and agreed to do it. I just feel it's very telling. it's been 3 days... and yes he has
I'm not sure if there is OW. I haven't found any concrete evidence
for 12 more days, can that^^^ wait? It would keep me distracted from the goal.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I feel refreshed today the baby slept 6 hours straight for the first time! Must have been the graduation party haha. I think he was a little over stimulated.
The evening went off without a hitch. H had a good time (from what I saw) with my family. I went and sat with him with the baby to talk for a bit. He told me he was going into work tomorrow. I swear I almost think he tries to test me to see what I'm going to say or if it's going to start a fight. I just replied.. well that stinks but at least you have Monday off. Hopefully you won't have to be there all day and left it at that.
This morning I called him to see when he was thinking he would be done. The boys stayed with my mom last night and his work is close to her and it's 45 minutes from me so I asked if he would pick them up if he wasn't going to be late to save me s drive. I had asked him last night if he wanted to do something together this weekend. He said ya I don't care. So this morning he made a point to tell me he was going on the boat tonight. I just said maybe we can do something another night then.
I'm not worrying about OW. I mean yes it's in the back of My mind but not something I'm going to investigate. I've not checked the phone bill in almost a month. He still continues to lie about stupid things. I'm working on letting it go and trying not to analyze it. He lied about going to get his hair cut. I don't get it. Like who cares. I'm obviously going to notice you got it cut lol. It's like he doesn't know how to tell the truth.
Anyway, I don't think in his mind he will be the one to do the things the C said my grandma also told me she thinks it's unfair of the C to put all of that on him with no expectation of me to initiate anything. I'm not sure if the C did that because H is the one who Said he was done and he wants to see if he's willing to make an effort but I've decided (if you guys think it's a good idea) that I will Uniate the things the C said. I won't text H everyday but I'll continue sending pics of the baby and asking about his day every couple days and I will ask him to go out to dinner or a movie etc.
Im going to be the person only a fool would leave. It really is true though. When I can stop being negative and letting my emotions and pain drive my behavior. I am the person only s fool would leave and our life we have built with our boys - he would be stupid to leave. He's not in a place where he can see that right now. He's very distant and shut off... I'm hoping that with time he will open up
Thanks, Doodler.....I was counting on ya.
) 
through July 28th so it's gonna be rough. 
?? Just asking!
