Here again part 5

[T384]

Hi Sandi, thanks for stopping by. I always appreciate your words.

When I was asking normal H was better in his actions. He stopped going out, left his phone out, etc. however this entire time even when it comes to him being asked about how he feels he says I don't know and I'm not sure I want to be together. So his actions get somewhat better. He still remained distant but he couldn't say he was in/committed.

I'm not concerned about OW anymore. I've let that go. If it's happening then it's only happening at during work hours or it's just via the phone but I've let it go and don't consume myself with that anymore at all. C also feels there isn't someone else. He's point blank asked H several times (not that I believe he would admit it) but bottom line I've let it go unless something else comes up then I'll revisit it if needed.

H saw the counselor alone and so did I. The counselor doesn't want to see us alone. He wants to see us together. We've gone twice. H followed what the counselor asked if him the first time. This last week he hasn't so much. The counselor told him to be more affectionate and open to me. He hasn't done that. The only thing that has changed is that he kisses me in the morning before he leaves for work even if I'm sleeping which is what he used to do but stopped. Other then that he's changed no other behaviors but I haven't said anything because over the weekend his words were that he was done.

The counselor said we are both still waiting for each other to make a move. That I'm anxious because ah chose to step out of the M before so I'm just waiting for that to happen again. He said H is waiting for me to be warm and loving so he knows that I will be that person again before he can be affectionate and open wth me. He told H that he needs to be the one to take the risk. That he doesn't know I will be that person even though I am telling him I will but that H needs to take the risk and change his behavior so we can get out of this place we are in and move forward to repair our M. So in my mind if H doesn't do this then that's his decision that it's over.

I'm leaving it be... going to go back to just being my normal self. Acting as if the words he says don't affect me. That was the only time he seemed to respond well. He knows if he's truly done he needs to leave. I made it very clear when he told me Jess done that he needed to make other living arrangements. That I refused to live with someone that didn't want to be with me as their wife and I sure as hell wasnt going to live with him as a roommate.




Hi 25 --

Thanks for all your words of wisdom, I'm on my phone so I may not fully address everything. I do not understand why H goes to counseling and does the things he does but cannot verbalize giving me certainty. I know I shouldn't waste my time trying to understand. That's just where I'm at.

I'm trying to mentally prepare myself for divorce. I hate the feeling of waiting for the other shoe to drop. We are scheduled for counseling again this week. I don't remind him of the appointments or ask about it. I'm not even sure what to say this week. I want to let the C know H said he was done and couldn't give me any other answers. I'm not sure though if that will be helpful

Divorce for me means forever. I will not work things out with h after that. I won't put the boys through it again. Ask as I said if he leaves that's it also. I won't go yo with the boys with him being back and forth. We spent so much time discussing this when he came back. I was given so many empty promises that he would never leave again that he doesn't want to feel the way he felt again.

My mind tells me if he leaves he is going to be sorry and that he can't see any of that right now because all of his needs are being met in this home right now. We sleep next to each other every night. Spend time together as a family. Beside him being distant everything is almost the same. We spend the weekends together. We went to lunch yesterday in between soccer games with some other families and he asked me if it was okay if he went to look at boats at the boat place next door. A month ago he wouldn't have done that... he's texting me during the day to ask about the baby and if I'm tired from him being up so much. I give short but nice answers. I send him pictures every other day... so I'm reciprocating a little here and there.

I'm not sure if it's safe to open my heart and be warm when he can't give me any certainty.

The way the C phrased it was that H needed to take the risk in order for me to reciprocate because he stepped out before and he knows I'm all in but I don't know if he is. He doesn't know if he is.

Sorry this is all over the place. I hope this makes sense.

What I was getting is not enough. He knows I need more. I said I did. That's why the counselor told him he needed to show me more affection and be more available.

[T384]

Well against my better judgement I went to C. H said he was 50/50 staying going when C asked him. C had me ask him ... he said he is done. He's done with this M and being unhappy. That nothing he does is good enough for me. That we take one step forward three steps back. He's realized it will never change.

C spent time discussing how we got here. Also that these issues will be continued on in H next relationship. C asked h if he was willing to give it 2 weeks. H agreed. He told H he needed to text me something positive twice a day and take me on two dates between now and our next appt in 2 weeks. He asked me to be loving reciprocate and not ask H any questions about our M.

I am devastated all over again.

I'm working on accepting its over. I'm not sure how to be pisitivr for 2 weeks.

H tried to kiss me goodbye as we were leaving counseling. I just turned away and got in my car. Don't bother kissing me after you just told me it's over.

[Maybell]

I'm so sorry you have to go through this with a tiny baby. My ex was the same way in counseling -- he was waiting for it to be a magic bullet instead of a slog. He wasn't up for the slog. He wanted to party.

You have inside you a mighty woman. You parented little tiny children, worked full time, went to school, had a monster commute, and still managed to look adorable when you wanted to when you went through this the first time. Whatever happens here, you are going to be AWESOME. You should not need to earn your way back into his heart. And if he doesn't want to earn his way back into yours, then he is losing out on one h3ll of a woman.

Remember what you're worth, T. You are MIGHTY.

[25yearsmlc]

Well against my better judgement I went to C. H said he was 50/50 staying going when C asked him. C had me ask him ... he said he is done. He's done with this M and being unhappy. That nothing he does is good enough for me. That we take one step forward three steps back. He's realized it will never change.

this^^ is about the 8th time you've had this^^^ exact conversation. Seriously. There is a different answer to the C than you, which has also happened before. Perhaps you ask a different way, like with a lot of expectations, or IDK


C spent time discussing how we got here. Also that these issues will be continued on in H next relationship. C asked h if he was willing to give it 2 weeks. H agreed. He told H he needed to text me something positive twice a day and take me on two dates between now and our next appt in 2 weeks. He asked me to be loving reciprocate and not ask H any questions about our M.

So, you both agreed to this^^^ and then below, you act as if there's no agreement. I'm confused.

I get the feeling you'll return in two weeks to hear how it went and be in the same place.

Either your h is really on the fence or he wants you to file. But I have the strong impression your h won't file. Period.

I am devastated all over again.

I'm working on accepting its over. I'm not sure how to be pisitivr for 2 weeks.

Okay you went in with low expectations and then it SEEMS like all you heard was the negative he gave you, (not shocking)

then you agreed to be positive but you don't really intend to be...

I wish I'd seen the MC appointment b/c it's as if you didn't hear whatever your h said to your C and you only heard what he said to you.

What did the C say when he heard 2 different answers? That's something crucial to address.

Did the C act as if all that mattered was what your h said to him, or what?

H tried to kiss me goodbye as we were leaving counseling. I just turned away and got in my car. Don't bother kissing me after you just told me it's over.

this^^ means you already broke a promise to the C. So now your h can say "she's still cold to me so why bother?"

I mean, you are on the fence and it shows, and it's this impasse that I spoke of - and your C speaks of. Then when your h does make a positive move, you turn away b/c he also says (what I see as) cowardly, on the fence remarks about his commitment.

Much as I want to slap some sense into him, (which is a lot) I also want to know why YOU Would agree to something in MC, and then break that agreement 20 minutes later.

*Why not refuse in the office to his face? Own it and leave? OR do what you promise?

You cannot expect your h not to ever notice that you are cold even though you just promises otherwise, it's like you just gave him "proof" that nothing he DOES is ever going to make a difference.

and then you wait for the other shoe to drop.

Both of you need to get off the fence, either way.

((( )))

[T384]

Hey 25

His answer to the C was minutes before his answer to me. All I asked was if H was committed to our M. Then he gave me the answer that was 'tbh I'm done'. C said usually when you ask people that they can't answer because it's a difficult question. So he said it means a lot or speaks a lot that H can come out and say he's done. The only reason I asked that in C is because the C told me to ask.

I don't know that H is on the fence. I think he just doesn't want to be seen as the bad guy. I heard what H said but everything pretty much surrounded on negative and how he was done and it would never change.

The C asked for 2 weeks because he said we haven't had 2?' Weeks of positive. He said if it really is over we should both try before we throw in the towel.


The C took H being done when he said it to me and focused on that. He didn't focus on the 50/50 answer.

I want to be positive but I don't know how. I asked the C what am I supposed to do. He said just not to have R talks and reciprocate H actions if he does them. He told me he would be shocked in a good way if H actually did the things he promised he would. So it makes me believe the C knows H is done too.

The kiss thing .. I was hurt. He just told me it was over and yo be honest I just wanted to get in the car and process it alone.

He didn't come home til late and I just fell asleep so we didn't say goodnight or anything.

I'm scared. I'm scared to be positive make an effort and show up in 2 weeks to hear he's done and it's a divorce all over again.

[T384]

Sorry I'm feeding the baby and half awake.

I'm not on the fence. .. I just don't know what the hell im going to do to save my M. I believe it's past that point. I don't know how to be positive with low expectations. I'm trying to figure that out in my head.


And may bell, just saw your post. Thank you for your kind words. I hope I can become that person again. She seems so far away right now.

[25yearsmlc]

T0, I have not read the other replies so I'm going by my gut to each of your comments, okay? So I'm not sure of other info but just taking this post (below) and what your session was like...

Hey 25

His answer to the C was minutes before his answer to me. All I asked was if H was committed to our M.

so I assume he told the C that he IS committed to the marriage but when asked by YOU, he felt somehow, otherwise. Which is a "fence like" answer

b/c if it were really All about not wanting to look bad, then he'd give you the same answer he gave the C, at least in front of the C. Make sense?


Then he gave me the answer that was 'tbh I'm done'. C said usually when you ask people that they can't answer because it's a difficult question. So he said it means a lot or speaks a lot that H can come out and say he's done. The only reason I asked that in C is because the C told me to ask.

I don't know that H is on the fence. I think he just doesn't want to be seen as the bad guy.

see above^^ he would not bother to "lie" to the C and then only tell the "truth" to you. I read it as a "conditional response" when you asked.

it's the whole impasse we have discussed at quite some length

I heard what H said but everything pretty much surrounded on negative and how he was done and it would never change.

The C asked for 2 weeks because he said we haven't had 2?' Weeks of positive. He said if it really is over we should both try before we throw in the towel.


From what I've followed on your thread, this^^^ is true, right?
I mean, in the past 3+ months, there have not been more than a few days go by without you saying you are "just done" correct?

(btw, SIDENOTE when you say it, it would really hurt me and the r. It's "Divorce" talk, and yet it obviously been a bluff so far. It's always conditioned on something else your h can do . You say "I'm just done IF IF IF HE won't make you feel safe.

I'm not sure he knows how to "make you feel" safe, but when he does the small gestures designed for it, he feels rebuffed.
.

The C took H being done when he said it to me and focused on that. He didn't focus on the 50/50 answer.
[b]
I want to be positive but I don't know how.

that's ^^very VERY significant to me.

Much as we harp on his idiotic behavior here, this^^ is something YOU can work on.


I asked the C what am I supposed to do. He said just not to have R talks and reciprocate H actions if he does them.[/b]

this is about YOU^^^ . For 2 weeks this ^^^ is where your focus needs to be. This is what you are responsible for and what you CAN control


He told me he would be shocked in a good way if H actually did the things he promised he would. So it makes me believe the C knows H is done too.

You are mind reading the C now!...

What you KNOW is that the C gave you guys a paradigm, a test. Your h passed the first part of that that test...


The kiss thing .. I was hurt. He just told me it was over and yo be honest I just wanted to get in the car and process it alone.


HE ALSO said he was committed to the marriage! And He also agreed to try for 2 weeks.

YOU also agreed to try and reciprocate his actions right after your h's main complaint was that no matter what he does, you won't be warm or reciprocate.



He didn't come home til late and I just fell asleep so we didn't say goodnight or anything.

I'm scared. I'm scared to be positive make an effort and show up in 2 weeks to hear he's done and it's a divorce all over again.

T0,

1) TBH, no, I don't have a lot of hope for your m working out this round. And it's not all about him.

2) But I have SOME hope b/c behind all his fears AND yours, there is love.

3) My fear is that you are not doing your part in THIS^^^^ scenario, and others like it.

4) While your fears are understandable. There is another fear to consider -

What about the fear of you NOT taking a chance for 2 weeks, and knowing that in your h's eyes, you refused? What about over estimating the sacrifice of a 2 week "be warm & reciprocate" challenge? It's TWO weeks...

What about how you will view yourself later, when you are alone and in a regretful mood? Because at this moment, you are feeding into his view and from what I can tell,

your h is very needy, very afraid of never being forgiven, has poor boundaries with other women (in general, I mean) and also, he loves you and the boys.

I think he wants to start fresh. As the groundwork for that (later boundaries would come, of course)

for now, all the C asked for & which you both agreed to do, is be warm to each other and reciprocate. For 2 weeks.

I hope you can emerge from this ordeal TRULY knowing you did all you could, to keep your m together and these 3 little men in an intact marriage.

Watch Amy Cuddy's TED talk about "Faking it till You Become it" and Sean Achor's piece on positive psychology. They have real data.

((( )))

[T384]

Hey 25. I'm going to get. Back and reply to all of this after I read it a few times but I wanted to clarify that H did not tell the C he was committed. He said he was 50/50.

When I asked if he was committed he said he was done. These questions from the C and I were only a few minutes apart.

[T384]

I don't know how to quote on my phone so I'm just going to go down in order of your post and try to address everything that way so hopefully it's easier to follow.

So H has been saying he's done since March. I haven't told him I am done. I've said it here but not to him. I possibly said it once back in March that if he didn't come home to never come home again when he was going out one night and said he might not come home. Other than that that I can recall I haven't said those words to him. Usually my words are quite the opposite.

I do not understand why he's 50/50 on being in this marriage and to me he's done. Even answering the same question with a different answer to the C. That was my reason for thinking he was trying to not be the bad guy with him but what you say makes sense that if he didn't want to be that person he would be dishonest with both of us. Point taken


In the past three months we have some sort of R discussion brought up by either of us. That's what H is referring to. He wants to talk about nothing and he left alone. He needs time, etc. he only wants to discuss our R with the counselor and not at all any other time. That's why the C gave me this as to not engage in any R talk for the next two weeks.

The C said H knows what he needs to do to make me feel safe but the concerning part is he knowingly chooses not to. Which is exactly why the C said he would be shocked if H sends me two texts a day and takes me on 2 dates. Because last week he didn't show me more affection like the C asked him to .. and the C said his actions are speaking loud that he's completely checked out. He told us both last night were going to end up getting divorced. I shed some tears and said I loved H and didn't want to lose my husband.

I truly don't know how to be positive. I'm trying to fake it. If he does initiate a date night I don't even know what to talk about. The last time we went to dinner was in the beginning of April and he sprung on me at dinner that he was going out the next night and I wasn't invited. I just sat there calmly and didn't get into anything. How can I be this fun living carefree person knowing a divorce is coming. I know I need to be able to be that person and I'm trying to find her in me

So what if H doesn't initiate texts or initiate a date night. Am I supposed to then do those things or just do nothing and go back to the C in 2 weeks to say none of those things happened

If I'm being raw and honest --- I fear him not doing these actions will hurt me in these two weeks. Because in my mind that is him showing me he is done. His lack of action to do the things he C asked is him showing his decision. His lack of action.


H complaint isn't that I don't reciprocate it's that I don't notice that he's trying. That what he does isn't good enough. That I can't take what he's doing as improvement that I have to talk about it. The C said I like to talk and H likes to be left alone when there's a problem. ... And with the kiss thing / the words him being committed have not exited his mouth since this started. He only shook the C hand agreeing to do the things he asked so as the C said - 'lets at least say we tried to make this work before you throw in the towel'

I know I have to stop my negative thinking. I need to recognize the positive from him. There's not much positive right now. I did not expect H to tell me he was done in C. Because last week in C he told the C he only says that when he's mad but didn't mean it. Now yesterday he says he's done when asked directly whereas previously he couldn't or wouldn't say that.



I spent a lot of time and tears last night and today. I know what I have to do and I'm goi g to do it. I'm scared. I'm scared to get more hurt. I'm scared to lose him forever and I'm scared to get my hopes up. I really thought yesterday at C it was going to go differently.

I love H. I don't want to lose him. I don't want to break up my family. I don't want any of that at all.

Also I have been kind to H. The only thing I've done is have the R talks. But I send him a picture of the baby everyday. I ask him how his day is. I have been doing the things the C said before this.

But as far as todaycstarting my 2 Week commitment. This morning we had to go to our boys school for end of the year awards. He was quiet in the car I made small conversation then took his cues that he didn't want to talk and kept quiet. We had a good time with the boys and came home he had to leave for work. He kissed me goodbye said he loved me and told me to have a good day. I told him I loved him and to drive safe. I asked him if he wanted me to make him lunch before he left and had cut up strawberries I bought for him at the farmers market yesterday to take to work.

The baby had a dr appt. I didn't wait for H to text me to ask me about it. I called him we talked and I ended the conversation. That's it for today. I haven't heard from him otherwise texting me like The C asked. I think if he doesn't do it tomorrow then I'll feel a little
More discouraged but im trying not to let it affect me. I need to give him no ammunition against me in C. We go back in 2 weeks to reevaluate how we did with the things the C asked us.

I appreciate your help 25 and challenge me or give me a difficult time all you want. That's what I need to see a way other than my own. I do not want a divorce. I know ther is nothing here that's broken beyond repair. But I also know my H needs to be the one to commit back to me. He has to want me in his life as his wife. He knows that's what I want. He just doesn't want that right now.

[T384]

I need advice as this next 2 weeks continues

Who am I supposed to be and what am I supposed to do?

I don't know how to be warm and loving without coming off as pursuing.

Also, he hasn't done anything the C asked. No two texts a day. Yesterday was the first day but if he doesn't today I feel that's my answer that he's done