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Stumbled upon this site a few weeks ago and have finally decided to request the assistance of the group. The basic break down is been married to W for 14 years and together almost 17 years. The marriage the last 2 years had become complacent much like most long term marriages. My W went on a cruise the week before Thanksgiving 2016 with her sister and her sisters family. I stayed home with our S13, allowing them to have a so called "sister trip". Needless to say two days into this 4 day trip my W cheated on me with one of her sisters cousins. A man who just happens to be married with 3 children of his own. The remainder of the trip the two kept sneaking around and having sex. Afterwards my W returned back home to TN, while this married man returned to his own family VA. From the moment my wife returned home her behavior had totally changed. Initially I thought nothing of it. But over the next few days, it seemed that she would go out of her way to start arguments with me.

It took another week for me to start to notice that she would be up late at night texting and messaging. Not to mention in the evenings, I would walk into the room while she on the phone. And suddenly she would getup and completely move. Even when talking to mutual friends of ours who apparently she had confessed the cheating on the cruise to. After becoming curious, I found a message on her phone to the AP in question. The message pretty much was her telling him that she had zero regrets about what happened between the two of them. And that she intended to leave this marriage. Regardless if he was still married, she still wanted to [censored] with him, but not at the moment due me becoming more and more curious. Instead of yelling and waking her up. I went through the phone and took pictures of as many text as I could for proof of infidelity.

The next night I confronted her after giving myself time to calm down. And she admitted to cheating on me. W said that who it was with and when wasn't important and wanted a Big D. At the moment she had no clue that I knew who it was already, so I kept that information to myself. Over the next 48 hours, I went through a series of emotions that goes against the 37 rules, which I wish I had known about back in December.

The AP had plans to sneak into town on December 4, but apparently backed out and called off the affair after my W told him that it was to risky. After getting hold of his phone number, I called him telling him to no longer contact my wife or I would make contact with his. He agreed and we left the conversation with that. Three days later, I discover that my W is messaging the AP again. So I decide to contact his W on December 8. Apparently this man is "Serial Cheater" according to his wife who has a habit of sleeping with married women. These women eventually leave their H to be with him, but he never leaves his own W or tends to always return back to her. His W confronts him with some of the evidence I shared with her about the PT. And on December 11 AP calls threatening me about telling his W. I hang up on him initially a couple of times telling him I won't talk with him until he calms down. During this period AP contacts my W telling her that I know his identity and everything else. Fast forward past his yelling AP and myself come to an agreement that he would not contact my W and I wouldn't contact his. AP then told my W not to contact him in any way.

Life was a little rough over the next month and half, W still wanted a Big D. But we were actually starting to become friendly. Also during this time we still have an active SL. But in February AP contacted my W apparently to see how she was doing and to say that things were back on track in his marriage. From what my W tells me they agreed to be friends and have been contacting each other secretly. They act as if its innocent, but I have seen messages of flirting and my W sending sex poetry she has written about him. By this time, I discover the DB site and decide to handle things a bit differently. I had already decided to GAL on my own back in early February, so I was already on the right track in regards to that.

Not sure if it was a mistake or not, but I informed AP W that our spouses were back in contact with each other last week. Told her not to say anything about me telling her. Later that evening, I found out that my W and AP were no longer friends on FB or IG. My W was acting a bit bothered that evening. My guess is that my W is figuring out that when it comes to her AP choosing between her and his W. His W wins every time, while my W is willing to lose everything for "Serial Cheater". Things have been going well, but W still wants a Big D. Part of the issues in our marriage was neglect on both our parts. So the advice to stay away in my opinion would just be the same as usual in her mind. Giving her space has worked, because now she goes out of her way to seek me out. But if I want to show her that I have changed. I seriously need to find away to be more affectionate. There is no issues with her wanting to have sex with me several times a week, but if I want to avoid a Big D, there has to be other forms of PT. Welcoming all advice.


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Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.


Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon


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Two things spring to mind..... Do you really want to be with a wife who has cheated on you, and is only with you now because her lover keeps choosing his wife?
And, find a marriage counselor.

Best of luck. Keep posting. It helps.


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I am all for forgiving. Minus the last couple of months she has been a good wife, though there have been issues. I believe our problems are communication and complacency. Just need her to want to out the effort in as well. She told me that she believes this issues can be fix, but doesn't want to bother. Claim to ILYBNILWY. But prior to the cruise we were planning our 15 year anniversary and she was telling me she lived me. Came back from the cruise a different person. That's when I started to learn about Affair Fogs. This guy is clearly no good according to his own W. But yet my wife can't see the obvious. The list for the AP seems to be blocking the efforts on my part. To a coworker who works in mental health section at my job says it sounds as if she having a mid life crisis. W33 was married to me at 19 and mother at 20. He claim this is the exact time a woman her age and life experience would be going through this. Which is why I am trying to be patient and hoping this would blow over.


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Tread...the affair is the symptom of the issues within your marriage. Since your W is unwilling to put much effort into the relationship, it will be up to you to lead the way.

You said neglect is/was part of the problem in your marriage. Can you provide us with more information on the other parts of the problems? Then we might be better equipped to help.

Have you read DR? The links Cadet has provided?


Me:45 ExW:48
M:04/97
3 Bombs & 2 ReCons
1st BD 11/10
D Finalized 4/20
D-16 S-14
Going in one more round when you don't think you can. That's what makes all the difference in life.~Rocky Balboa
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Romance and sex was at an all-time low last year. I was going through a slight depression last year and didn't even realize it. My W was having periods that would stop for a day and continue on for weeks at a time. Which put a stop to sex for the most part. The issue there stopped right before ahe went on that cruise. Apparently my wife feels that I stopped trying to get to know her. But after almost 17 years together, I know everuthing about her. The AP is basically just learning things that I already know. So I believe the excitement is about having somebody new to tell everything about herself to. Communication was bad on her part, because she told friends things that she was upset with me about, but never bothered to tell me until now. So I have made the changes and W has said that she has noticed. But there seems to be something holding her back, which I believe is the AP making false promises I assume.


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Did you overcome your depression? How?

Also, do you feel since you believed that you knew everything about your W, did you become complacent? We all get comfortable and put our efforts in cruise control.


Me:45 ExW:48
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3 Bombs & 2 ReCons
1st BD 11/10
D Finalized 4/20
D-16 S-14
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When finding out about the affair, I kind of just snapped out if the depression. It wasn't a big thing. I just was going through the routine of the day. I was functioning, but the relationship was being ignored. I've been talking with a counselor. My issues were based on nit being were I want to be career wise. Complacency was my biggest issue and why the marriage took a wrong turn. We were never the type to get into shouting matches. I believe our problems have simple solutions. It s just getting W to go along.


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Originally Posted By: Tread
I am all for forgiving. Minus the last couple of months she has been a good wife, though there have been issues. I believe our problems are communication and complacency. Just need her to want to out the effort in as well. She told me that she believes this issues can be fix, but doesn't want to bother. Claim to ILYBNILWY. But prior to the cruise we were planning our 15 year anniversary and she was telling me she lived me. Came back from the cruise a different person. That's when I started to learn about Affair Fogs. This guy is clearly no good according to his own W. But yet my wife can't see the obvious. The list for the AP seems to be blocking the efforts on my part. To a coworker who works in mental health section at my job says it sounds as if she having a mid life crisis. W33 was married to me at 19 and mother at 20. He claim this is the exact time a woman her age and life experience would be going through this. Which is why I am trying to be patient and hoping this would blow over.


Hello Tread,

I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.

Little compares to the devastation people feel when they discover their spouse has been unfaithful. Couples often struggle to get past intense emotional pain, mistrust, resentment and never ending arguments about the betrayal. Healing from infidelity is achievable for both of you with the right support and tools.

I'm glad you said you are trying to be patient. Being hopeful is great too, although waiting for this to blow over isn't going to get your marriage moving in a more positive direction.

Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.

Cristy

Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004


A Divorce Busting Coach can help you save your marriage, even when your spouse wants out.

Email virginia@divorcebusting.com or 303-444-7004 for more information or to get started right away.
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Christy

Thank you. I might just take you call soon. The difficult part in my case is doing a 180 when that will clearly contradict a few of the 37 rules.


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What 180's do you feel would contradict the rules?


Me: 48 y/o
W: 47 y/o
Together: > 20 yrs
BD: Dec '15, then S
2nd BD: Mar '16, then I filed for D
April '16: started piecing
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what do you mean contradict the rules? the 180 is a complete mindset, stop chasing, begging, pleading, bargaining...

The 180

1. Don’t pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.

2. No frequent phone calls.

3. Don’t point out “good points” in marriage.

4. Don’t follow her/him around the house.

5. Don’t encourage or initiate discussion about the future.

6. Don’t ask for help from the family members of your wayward partner.

7. Don’t ask for reassurances.

8. Don’t buy or give gifts.

9. Don’t schedule dates together.

10. Don’t keep saying, “I Love You!” Because if you really think about it, he/she is, at this particular moment, not very loveable.

11. Do more than act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!

12. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.

13. Don’t sit around waiting on your spouse – get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!

14. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don’t push any issue, no matter how much you want to!

15. If you’re in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.

16. Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that “they (the wayward partner)” are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack there of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life…without them!

17. Don’t be nasty, angry or even cold – Just pull yourself back. Don’t always be so available…for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you’re missing.

18. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Make yourself be someone they would want to be around, not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self-assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.

19. All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!

20. Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control. YOURSELF!

21. Don’t be overly enthusiastic.

22. Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!

23. Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Hear what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!

24. Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.

25. Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.

26. Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.

27. Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.

28. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.

29. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It’s not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don’t care.

30. Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.

31. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It “ain’t over till it’s over!”

32. Do not backslide from your hard-earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.

33. When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don’t work out with the affair partner.


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Originally Posted By: LiM
What 180's do you feel would contradict the rules?


Don't buy gifts or schedule dates.

These are the things my W actually wanted to see more during the marriage. So shouldn't I make it a point to do these type of things? My W likes things like me texting "I love you" messages every now and then. So shouldn't I be doing more of this, since neglect was our marriage issues?


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I believe I may have messed up this morning. Woke up this morning to W questioning me about contact the AP W last week, which is why he stopped communicating with my W once more. I admitted it. And them W proceeded to play stupid by saying she doesn't understand why I would be bothered by them trying to be friends. I explained once more that nothing good could come from having a friendship with someone she was having an affair with. W stated that I don't trust her. And I stated that I trusted her with everything, except for all things related to him. W started to yell and I simply just laid in bed looking at her. She then once again mentioned that she still had plans on BD me. I simply responded okay. W tried to explain that her reasons for wanting D had nothing to do with OM. Believe she caught me rolling my eyes, because she got upset stating what she was saying was the truth. I told her the messages I found from months ago said something different. W got mad and stated that I'm living in the past. And unable to let things go.

Also she complained about my change in attitude over the last few months. Claimed that I was only being nice was only conditional. Honestly I had no idea what she really meant by that. But it seemed like an excuse to start an argument. Whenever things start to get good, she always finds a way to sabotage the relationship. And it always involved the OM in some way. The only arguments we have had during the last couple of months involve her interaction with the OM. Needless to say W went to work upset. But around lunch called me asking if I wanted to come by her job for lunch. They were having an event. So I came by we talked, ate and even took photos together. Its been a weird day so far.


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Originally Posted By: Tread
Christy

Thank you. I might just take you call soon. The difficult part in my case is doing a 180 when that will clearly contradict a few of the 37 rules.


Hello Tread,

It is common to think that many of the strategies are counter intuitive or contradictory. As you know, one size does not fit all.

It sounds like your changes have been noticed, just difficult to believe at this point. These changes need to be made for you. They need to be long lasting and sincere. Prove that to yourself and anyone else through your actions, not your words.

The best advice I can give you is to call a Divorce Busting Coach today. Many of your online friends will agree that Divorce Busting coaches will give you the best advice on how to save your marriage. Your DB Coach will be able to customize the strategies for your specific situation. Please call me to discuss our coaching program 303-444-7004

Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004


A Divorce Busting Coach can help you save your marriage, even when your spouse wants out.

Email virginia@divorcebusting.com or 303-444-7004 for more information or to get started right away.
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Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.

Originally Posted By: Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.

It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.

We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.

Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.


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Thanks for the advice. Been doing so every day, since I found the site weeks ago.


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My next question would be on how to get intimacy outside of the bedroom? We're having plenty of sex and the W has noticed and is clearly pleased with the changes I have made(which I made for myself). But still wants a BD, which I believe could be solved with other forms of intimacy on the regular (example: hand holding, hugging, kissing, touching flirtatiously, etc.). So how do I go about making these things happen? Because right now it feels like we're great friends with benefits.


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Just noticed that my W was looking at some of the poetry she wrote over her sexual experience with the OM. This guy is in another state and ended contact. But yet she is still thinking about this guy. Had sex with me this morning and then invited me to church with her. Today was actually going good, then I find this. If I confront W, then its another argument with nothing but lies on her part. So I have to sit here and let it go, while venting on here. Hoping the W isn't thinking about him, while I'm doing the actual work in the bedroom.


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Tread - just read your thread, and you seem to have much more of an opportunity to fix things than i do. Good to hear yiur wife is still intimate and wanted to go to church with you. Keep up whatever you are doing that she said she noticed.


M:39 W:36 - D1:2 D2:6
11/19/16 BD1: ILYBNILWY, EA/PA
Dec/Jan: MC, pursuing, not DBing
1/11/17 BD2: W wants 1 month break
2/1/17: Divorce Remedy. Start DBing
2/17/17 BD3: W - separation to start D process
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KevinIn- Thanks for the encouragement. Hardest part is trying to get past her stubborn ways. But trying to be intimate outside the bedroom is where I'm stuck. Trying to be cool without possi my scaring the W off.


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Originally Posted By: LITB
Tread...the affair is the symptom of the issues within your marriage. Since your W is unwilling to put much effort into the relationship, it will be up to you to lead the way.

Yes^^.

You are here trying to save the m, she's not. You said in an earlier post that "neglect on both sides" or complacency was the cause...For me that is a bit vague to help you with. To me it feels like your focus is on the A and not the cause of the A. Plus, saying there was "complacency/neglect" on both sides, well, it sounds like a scorecard you have making sure you don't own too much b/c you want her to be wrong.

Hey, affairs are lousy things to do, especially when there's no remorse yet. But it also means she has justified a lot of it and that means unmet needs in her. Can you explore those more thoroughly *even if only privately*?

Oh and I have a pet peeve of thread titles that say "cheating wife wants to leave marriage."

The label of her being a "Cheating wife", makes it seem as if the affair is the reason you are here as opposed to her wanting out of the marriage.

Plus it comes off as self righteous, almost like saying "Slut wants out"

and I'm not sure how that helps you.




You said neglect is/was part of the problem in your marriage. Can you provide us with more information on the other parts of the problems? Then we might be better equipped to help.

Have you read DR? The links Cadet has provided?


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
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Hopefully the DR book will be arriving at the library this afternoon. Been reading as much of the links that I believe apply to much sitch. Is there anything in particular that you would recommend?
Other than neglect and sex issues within the past year. Whichever both have been resolved in the past few months. I discovered through counseling that I have a slight anger issue in regards to disrespect. When someone disrespect me, I have a habit of taking their heads off verbally. Whichever normally wouldn't be a bad thing, but not good to have in a marriage. Even even your W is saying things to deserve it. I have changed this behavior as well. Even though it seems that my W is constantly doing things to get me riled up. I recognize that I can only control my actions and gave remained calm.


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Also I addressed the marriage as the problem that lead to the A. I gave a sincere apology my W in regards to my actions, whichever got us to this point days after finding out about the A. It's just at this I believe the urge to leave a fantasy (a word she used in messages to the OM) is blinding her. Right now I'm combating fantasy vs. reality.


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Alright everyone, I picked up the DR book from the library this evening. And it is absolutely amazing. So far on page 76 and this book has literally broken down my marriage and what went wrong. Just wished my W would be open to reading the book. But I know she wouldn't be the least bit interested. So I will just keep it's existence to myself.


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Your wife is also likely to view whatever you try to do to improve the marriage, including the suggestions in the book, as manipulation. So, it may just make her mad if she knew you have the book. All of a sudden, trying to impress/woo her is "manipulation", but it wasn't manipulation, somehow, when the two of you were first dating.


M: 33, W: 30 @BD
M 7, T 10
BD: Early Dec
W left: Late Dec
W got stuff: Late Jan
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OM cnfrmd: Late Feb

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It could never be viewed as trying to figure out where things went wrong. And trying to make things right. I feel like things have improved in many ways already, but every few days my W will find ways to blatantly disrespect me. My W did things to sabotage the marriage and s she continues to do so now. I know she had a bad childhood. But it's as if she refuses to be happy.


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Tread,

I have read your thread and in some ways it is very similar to mine. My wife is in the middle of an affair and we had very similar issues leading up to this. Over the past 6-7 weeks since our arguing had come to a head, I found this site and have been practicing a lot of 180's. My wife has noticed and she is actually getting closer to me everyday. We went from her not being in the same room as me to her texting me and working out with me. I too was in a depression for the last year and a half but this has been a huge wake up call and like you it was shock enough to snap me out of it. We haven't been intimate the last 7 months while we were fighting and we still haven't been. She has this loyalty to her AP and it is killing me. I try to remain positive and keep doing what I am doing because I focus on the small steps that she has made. All I can say is keep working on the 180 and show her the consistency of your changes. She will start to believe that she can trust that these are permanent but it will take time for both of us. Since it appears you two still have sexual relations there is still a connection between you. You realizing all the things you did wrong in the marriage regardless of what her faults were will eventually help build into a fuller connection with your W. At least that is what I believe. It is not an easy process but, like me it seems you really love your wife no matter what and you want your M to survive. I wish you the best of luck in all of this. Just keep working on yourself. It is really all we can do.

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PEW,

Thanks for the encouragement. The part you mentioned about the loyalty to the OM is what's killing me as well. Its as if giving accepting the marriage is somehow a betrayal to him. And the saddest part is that he is married in another with 3 children. With no intent on leaving his family. But my W was willing to simply be the OW. Even though she now claims that their just friends with no intent on going any further. Which I believe is another lie.

I discovered yesterday last night that my W is also in contact with someone else via Facebook that she cheated on me with. Apparently she claims that only a kiss happened between them and from the messages I found between them, I believe that no sex took place. But that doesn't mean that more than just a kiss took place. I have decided not to push on what more happened between them. But a few weeks ago, she removed him as a friend on Facebook, but I noticed that he liked a photo of my W and S13 when they were at the park yesterday. I checked out his page and she had liked a new profile picture of his. And when we were lying in bed, I noticed that she was following him on her timeline. But still aren't friends on Facebook. So somehow they're able to be on each others timeline without being friends on Facebook. Not sure how they do it, but it adds a whole new dynamic to sneaking around. And just when I figured that there might be some small sense of loyalty returning on her part. Do you and your W have any intimacy going on at the moment(holding hands, kissing, etc.)?


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No. We do not have any intimacy going on at the moment. The last 2 years were rough and really we lost our connection in the last 6-7 months prior to me DBing. I know she has her issues too but I honestly realized all of my faults leading to where we are and what I could have done differently to change this outcome. I am a very different man today than I was almost 7 weeks ago and I am very proud of who I have become. I have been able to show my wife love and understanding knowing that I will not be getting anything in return. Yes It hurts a lot and sometimes too much. These past weeks she has been making baby steps closer to me and I feel like I am discovering my W all over again.

I have been listening to a lot of music which helps keep me calm and focused on my goals. I try not to think much about what she does and I try not to snoop as it will only set me back on my growth. Knowing or not knowing details is not going to change what is currently happening. So I try to focus on the small positives.

I don't accept her choices so far but I accept that she is free to make them. I understand the process she went through to get here because of our failing M and I accept the part I played in it. I finally do not take responsibility for her making the choice of having an affair. That one is on her and if she wants to try and save our M, she will be the one to have to accept the damage she has caused by her actions. I am willing to forgive her which I never thought I was a person able to forgive an A. I lover her and right now I just try to show it in little ways when she lets me.

I do not try to compete with the OM. I truly enjoy her presence whenever she comes to me and I try to remain happy even though I am heartbroken on the inside. I have not confronted her about the affair. I need her to make the choice to come back to me on her own. I need her to choose me first and not because she felt she had to. If she doesn't than as hard as it is I am better off out of this relationship. Hopefully I won't have to make that decision. I am giving her the time and space she needs. In the meantime I am becoming the husband that she will have to think twice about before leaving.

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I often wonder if I should have been silent about the A like yourself. And just make the changes needed. It doesn't help that my W told a few male friends about the pending BD. And now a few of them have made their intentions known to her. So now she just loves all this extra attention. I'm sure that she isn't messing with them, but I know their in her ear giving advice that doesn't work in my favor at all. I went from having a loyal wife who would kicked these guys to the curb to suddenly entertaining marriage advice from them. And most of the clowns have wives or long term girlfriends of their own...smh


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I wouldn't second guess yourself now. You did what you thought was right at the time. No one really knows what is the best way of handling it. Each situation is different even though there are similarities between each one.

At this point, I would say keep improving yourself and maybe start trying to detach yourself from her. I am currently trying to do that while I do my 180's and it is becoming a little easier dealing with this whole mess. I am not fully there yet but I keep my breakdowns to when I am alone. Sometimes it feels good to just let it all out. You can't just keep bottling these feelings inside as I feel eventually they will eat at you from the inside and obstruct your personal growth.

As caring individuals and men who truly love their W's, we have to realize we are not without feeling and would not want to be cold individuals anyways. We have to just learn how to cope with our feelings and realize that the pain won't last forever either way. Its a hard fact that I am currently trying to accept. I pray for all the posters on this site and it truly saddens me to see so much pain out there.

I hope for the best for you and for all of the other DB posters in this forum. This site has been one of the most mentally and emotionally reassuring forums for me. I find strength in the kindness and sincerity of the many posters here. Thank you all.

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Originally Posted By: Tread
Christy

Thank you. I might just take you call soon. The difficult part in my case is doing a 180 when that will clearly contradict a few of the 37 rules.



The "RULES ARE NOT RULES" - they were Sandi's attempt at summarizing DB principles.

When people think that her summary substitutes for what a DB coach says it is unnecessarily complicated.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
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Completely detaching is going to be hard. I don't want to come off like I'm neglecting my W again. But I do see where my wife is taking advantage of my kindness in some ways. Unless that's just way of her subconsciously testing my responses again.


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The way I am detaching is I don't ignore her, I just don't initiate contact and do my own thing. When she texts me or calls me I am always attentive to what she says and respond to her accordingly. I don't linger on phone calls so when she is done really talking I am the first one to say good bye politely and I will talk to you later. I feel there are ways of going about this without ignoring them. My W feels that I ignored her in the past too so I do not want to continue behavior that will remind her of the past. I just want her to realize that I have a life too and that she can be a part of it whenever she wants to be included. I hope that makes sense. I have only been practicing these DB principles for the past 7 weeks so there are many veteran posters that could probably give better advice. I just don't agree that these principles are a one size fits all and I tweak them to what feels right in my situation but in no way am I an expert on this.

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Originally Posted By: Tread
Completely detaching is going to be hard. I don't want to come off like I'm neglecting my W again. But I do see where my wife is taking advantage of my kindness in some ways. Unless that's just way of her subconsciously testing my responses again.

Be careful with too much non-pursuit, given that you say you neglected her. Neglect was basically my wife's biggest complaint, I think. I've found that I seem to make the best improvement with her when I'm making contact and giving her attention. You have to try a lot of different things, and do whatever seems to work, and avoid whatever seems to make things worse. That is the most important DB rule, I think. Just make sure the things you try seem very reasonable. For me, the worst thing has been making my wife mad, since BD. She feeds on anger to do hurtful and cold things to me, and to stay on the divorce/OM train. If you watch the Last Resort Technique video series, you'll see where MWD warns against using a lot of no contact toward a wife that has been neglected. You definitely don't want to aggravate the cr4p out of her, either. I would suggest talking to a DB Coach. When everyone on the forums was telling me to not write letters or make any contact, Coach Chuck told me to call her and told me what to tell her, because I told him that she seems to respond most to me contacting her, versus giving her a lot of space. Remember to look for baby steps in the right direction, Tread. And this is all advice coming from someone in a very similar boat as you. So, take this with a grain of salt, because I'm learning, too.


M: 33, W: 30 @BD
M 7, T 10
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W left: Late Dec
W got stuff: Late Jan
W sent S papers: Mid Feb
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Originally Posted By: PEW1974
I just don't agree that these principles are a one size fits all and I tweak them to what feels right in my situation but in no way am I an expert on this.

I agree completely.


M: 33, W: 30 @BD
M 7, T 10
BD: Early Dec
W left: Late Dec
W got stuff: Late Jan
W sent S papers: Mid Feb
OM cnfrmd: Late Feb

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Originally Posted By: WshIKnw
Originally Posted By: PEW1974
I just don't agree that these principles are a one size fits all and I tweak them to what feels right in my situation but in no way am I an expert on this.

I agree completely.


the very essence of DB says this exactly. It says do X and monitor for results and if it works, keep at it, if not, reassess.

Not sure where the problem is. NO ONE ever said one size fits all, anywhere in DBing.

Oh, the part where we work on ourselves that is unclear? That's not just to prepare us for things in the m not working out.

That's to make us better people, happier, and coincidentally more appealing as spouses.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
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Originally Posted By: Tread
Completely detaching is going to be hard. I don't want to come off like I'm neglecting my W again. But I do see where my wife is taking advantage of my kindness in some ways. Unless that's just way of her subconsciously testing my responses again.


Detaching is a huge piece of this to protect you from taking everything she does so personally (b/c even though it feels very personal, much of it is about her path, not yours). Detaching is not just an approach in DB land for the m, it's for YOU as well.

I mean, GAL is key to detaching b/c otherwise you'll just wallow or obsess with nothing on your mind but your m.

Detaching is to make you a stronger man on your own, not attached to the results but doing your best, and to keep your emotional self safer.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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I found this

Healthy Detachment...(Posted by DBer Peanut originally)

I. Detachment

Detachment is critical to the process of altering and repairing a relationship.

Attached, we take personally ALL that is said, not said, done and not done.

When our ego gets wounded, we are more inclined to do/say things that undermine our goals.

When we are Detached from the actions of another, we can meet anger or indifference with love.

Met with love, we are in a position to diffuse the situation, and transform it in a way that will be in alignment with our goals.

On the flipside, detachment allows us to play it cool when we do get a positive reaction from our spouse. It is a way to break the distance/pursuer cycle.

Detachment is not withdrawal. It is not indifference. It is not the mind saying, ‘I am not getting what I want so I must pull back.’

It is the natural acceptance that we alone are responsible for how we act. We cannot control another person, but we can control how we respond to them.

We are responsible for our own actions (no one else is).

We are responsible for our own happiness. (No one else is)


PART II Detachment (found around here)

Detachment is the:

* Ability to allow S the freedom to be him/herself.

* Holding back from the need to rescue, save or fix S from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational.

* Giving S "the space" to be him/herself.

* Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with S.

* Accepting that I cannot change or control S and it was never my "duty/job" to do so.

* Establishing of emotional boundaries between me and S, so that both of us might be able to develop our own sense of autonomy and independence.

* Process by which I am free to feel my own feelings when I see S falter and fail and not to feel responsible for his/her failure, faltering or learning.

* Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring, without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing, demanind or controlling.

* Placing of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective. (=Balance is a piece of detachment).

* Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to hang on beyond a reasonable and rational point.

* Ability to let people I love and care for, accept personal responsibility for their own actions and not to bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them.

* Ability to allow S to be who he/she "really is" rather than who I "want him/her to be."


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
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25yearmics,

Thanks for breaking that down for me. It's clear now. Anyone have any idea on how imitate intimacy other than sex? Trying to get to the point of holding hands, kissing and etc. That's what she wanted during the marriage that got neglected.


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PEW,

That's exactly I've been doing with detaching. Doing my own thing and GAL, but when she calls and text, I make myself available to her. I've noticed that if I am in another room to myself, W makes a point to find and inquires what I am reading, watching, etc. Sometimes it feels like were in high school. And I am ignoring a girl to gain her attention. Wondering how long does it have to be like this.


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WshlKnl,

I made that mistake initially when I first discovered the A. Followed my W into every room trying to spend time with her. Because I knew she wanted attention throughout the marriage. But looking back a few months later, I provably came off crazy to her. And she hated me doing that.


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Originally Posted By: Tread
PEW,

That's exactly I've been doing with detaching. Doing my own thing and GAL, but when she calls and text, I make myself available to her. I've noticed that if I am in another room to myself, W makes a point to find and inquires what I am reading, watching, etc. Sometimes it feels like were in high school. And I am ignoring a girl to gain her attention. Wondering how long does it have to be like this.

Yeah. I thought I could relax after several years with my wife, and I did, and it was awesome. But often I've felt like I've been dealing with a teenager, since BD.

I got too relaxed when we were together, and couldn't read her because of her putting on a happy face. But I've learned a whole lot.


M: 33, W: 30 @BD
M 7, T 10
BD: Early Dec
W left: Late Dec
W got stuff: Late Jan
W sent S papers: Mid Feb
OM cnfrmd: Late Feb

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The one thing that I have come to understand from this forum and a lot of internet reading is that the situation you find yourself at hand did it happen overnight so it will not be repaired quickly either. My M and a lot of other ones here broke down over time and I feel that if we truly love them then we owe it to our S's to invest a great amount of time into making it whole again and in the process realize our shortcomings and failures and become better people who can actually have better relationships. Just use this time wisely and you won't focus on the negatives as much. I have my moments of weakness but they are for ny eyes only and the occasional time my best friend is around. Other than that I try and remain strong and happy in front of her. My W was getting ready to leave to go out tonight and she came downstairs where I was getting ready to workout and she said what is wrong with me and that I have had this happy look for awhile and I just told her that I was just staying positive. She left wondering why I was happy. I find that truly ironic.

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I definitely now believe that the only person you can change is yourself. I'm in the second in the DR book now. And the first part itself explained my marriage perfectly. I can see exactly where I went wrong. Glad that your W is noticing.

The thing I also find interesting on the part of my W. Is that she used "I need to be by myself to better myself. But since this DB/A been going on. W has done nothing to improve herself. If anything she has become a worst person. Going out drinking and lying. Myself on the other has improved a lot in the first quarter of this year. Life is funny like that.


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Last night I noticed that my W mentioned the OM. Had no idea what it was about. But it amazes me the obsession with some other W husband. When all they had was sex a few times on a cruise ship. And everything after that has been conversation via FB messenger and text. The OM hasn't even bought my W a drink and she can't seem to stay away. I'm so bad, but now she's chasing after married 'Serial Cheater' who never been able to stay faithful to his own W. Not seeing how she can view this as an improvement or some kind of hard decision to make.


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Originally Posted By: Tread
Last night I noticed that my W mentioned the OM. Had no idea what it was about. But it amazes me the obsession with some other W husband. When all they had was sex a few times on a cruise ship. And everything after that has been conversation via FB messenger and text. The OM hasn't even bought my W a drink and she can't seem to stay away. I'm so bad, but now she's chasing after married 'Serial Cheater' who never been able to stay faithful to his own W. Not seeing how she can view this as an improvement or some kind of hard decision to make.


Ive never really done drugs, so take what Im about to say with a grain of salt.

But I kind of think of affairs like starting on some type of illegal drug. You know going in that its bad for you and that youll only wind up in trouble. Youve seen the "Intervention" shows and read the stories. But someone gets you to try it once and then you are hooked.

This isnt a logical decision of you vs him. This is a decision of who makes her 'feel good' and the logic is out the window.

My advice is to stop comparing yourself to 'prove' you are the better choice. Instead, just BE the better choice.

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Originally Posted By: Kaizen
Originally Posted By: Tread
Last night I noticed that my W mentioned the OM. Had no idea what it was about. But it amazes me the obsession with some other W husband. When all they had was sex a few times on a cruise ship. And everything after that has been conversation via FB messenger and text. The OM hasn't even bought my W a drink and she can't seem to stay away. I'm so bad, but now she's chasing after married 'Serial Cheater' who never been able to stay faithful to his own W. Not seeing how she can view this as an improvement or some kind of hard decision to make.


Ive never really done drugs, so take what Im about to say with a grain of salt.

But I kind of think of affairs like starting on some type of illegal drug. You know going in that its bad for you and that youll only wind up in trouble. Youve seen the "Intervention" shows and read the stories. But someone gets you to try it once and then you are hooked.

This isnt a logical decision of you vs him. This is a decision of who makes her 'feel good' and the logic is out the window.

My advice is to stop comparing yourself to 'prove' you are the better choice. Instead, just BE the better choice.


I forget where I saw it, but someone on the MLC board just recently posted that they spoke to a couple of women who were the "OW" to some married men. They described it to her as just that...a type of high. They knew it was wrong, but they were hooked on the feeling that it gave them...I guess some type of rushes are irresistible.

In my case, my W is from a very addicted family...ranging from drugs to alcohol. She has never indulged in any of those things, but I can now see addictive tendencies in her with this OM and her extreme desire to move on with either him or whatever. This will never make sense to any of us that are thinking normal.


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Kaizen,

I hear what your saying that A is like a drug. And I understand that it is caused by chemicals in the brain. Also know that there is no logic behind it. But this is a long distance thing being held together by messages and the occasional short conversation. The drug like influence you would think would be at a bare minimum. Still plan on being the better choice when its said and done. But this situation is causing me to learn so much about my W and other people as well.


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Tread, go google "Affair Fog"

I don't recall all of the chemicals off the top of my head, but it's not "like" a drug. It IS a drug -- actually more than one. It's a real thing that is happening in their brains. There's legit research that has been done on it.

It's hard, for me at least, to empathize and understand what that must be like (like Kaizen, I haven't done any drugs), but reading about it may help a little.

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Went and looked it up for ya, mostly because I wanted to read it again:
Quote:
"Scientists have found that romantic highs are fueled by mood-lifting neurotransmitters such as dopamine and norepinephrine. However, the strongest cause of euphoria is a hormone called phenylethylamine. This particular hormone is released during fresh infatuation and resembles the chemical make-up of morphine. These neuro-chemicals distort your sense of reality. You are, in essence, under the influence of drugs.

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So let me tell you all something trifling. One of the two nicknames my W has for the OM is Left Twix. And ever since the A, I catch her walking around eating these damn things like crazy. Now she claims that this has always been her favorite candy bar. But 17 years together I can't recall her ever eating more than five. When I questioned her about the confidence she claims that she didn't buy them before, because I don't like Twix. But she doesn't see why I'm bothered by her nicknaming this guy after her so called favorite candy. Either she is that disrespectful leaving these wrappers lying around or the fog has her that blinded to her actions.


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What are you gonna do about it Thread?

You can only control how you react to her disrespect.

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A few months ago I would have went off. Now I'm just going to vent on this site. Nothing I say will make a difference as long as she in this fog. If she decides to have a change of heart and stay in the marriage. Then we can address this and several other issues. But for the most part I think these wrappers are a test. When things are going well shell sabotage things. W did the same things in the marriage.


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I agree with you. It's bait. Don't react.

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Crazy thing is there was a time it would have extremely difficult to hold my tongue. Now it's not issue at all. Tough part is just realizing wjat issues are actually worth the trouble of bringing up


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Originally Posted By: Thornton
I agree with you. It's bait. Don't react.

She might feed off of anger, like mine would, using the anger to do hurtful things. Don't give her anything to be mad about, as much as you can, while still maintaining your self-respect, and hopefully contributing to rebuilding her respect for you. Some anger from her is okay, if it builds her respect for you, like not letting her take advantage of you. Don't take the argument baits, though. Don't defend yourself. Instead, try to empathize with her and be compassionate regarding her complaints, unless you believe she is being completely unreasonable. Then, maybe tell her you think she is being unreasonable and walk away, because "I don't want a fight". That would be a 180 for me, and probably most guys -- to not defend and debate, but instead, empathize and be compassionate. Have you read Sandi's threads on the wayward wife? Thread one: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554&page=1


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Yeah, I read it. My W is a small combination of the WW. The A in my opinion is what pushed her into declaring the BD. But the characteristic of WAW is what was happening before the A. Other than the occasional sabotage, while testing me and the A with OM. There are no other forms of disrespect. If anything she still appears to support me in many ways like she did before all of this went down. Neglect is what made her a WAW. But her behavior as far acting like a spoiled teenager is very her attitude in regards to messing with the OM. As if she is entitled to messing with someone else's H with no consequences.


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That sounds so similar to my W. It was the neglect and disconnect that led to her A. Aside from the disrespect of having the A, she doesn't really show me any other signs of disrespect. She is also acting like a teenager who is entitled to things. I truly feel that both our W's actually can see the consequences of their actions but disregard the gravity of the them. In their heads right now the value of these consequences are much less than the value of their infatuation. Keep hanging in there.

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You seem way too engaged with her. Get out of the house and have a blast. Let her see you going out and having a blast. Do things that make you happy. Who gives a sh*t about a friggin candy bar? You shouldn't. Let her suck them down until she weighs 300 lbs. if she wants to. No skin off your back.

Ever gave up a fun activity you love because it's not her thing? Well? Go do it. Get out there and GAL, detach, and live like she doesn't exist. Do it for real. Don't fake it. It might change your perspective of this whole situation.



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I haven't read up on your whole thread yet but seen a few of the recent ones. I agree with txhubby. You are focusing way too much on her and the Twix situation. Get yourself a snickers and go have some fun. I'm not saying this in an ignorant way, but in a way that I know exactly what you are feeling and how this is consuming your thoughts. Back when my sitch was fresh, my own son knew OM as her pet name for him. Killed me a little inside every time I heard it. It wasn't until I truly GOT A LIFE and kept my mind busy with other things that I started feeling progress in the healing. For me it was kayaking, racing, even cleaning my house and retail therepy hat got my mind in a better place. Grab a nice new outfit, some new cologne and go out. Let your phone at home or in the car and actually have fun.

Don't pin on the troubles you are feeling at all moments of the day. Start small, a half hour. No thoughts of W. then go for an hour. Then two. Soon you will have days without the chest crushing thoughts consuming your life.

In my situation, as much as I thought I did, I never really detached. Now that I have, XF is a different person. I am living a happy, fulfilled life. To me, it now seems as if things clicked for her and she's waiting for my new girlfriend to slip up in any way. This all takes time and I'm not saying my path was always the correct one. But I have seen first hand that this process works if you are able to follow the steps and really GAL and detach.

Best of luck, I'll read up more here as soon as I have some time


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Originally Posted By: TxHubby
You seem way too engaged with her. Get out of the house and have a blast. Let her see you going out and having a blast. Do things that make you happy. Who gives a sh*t about a friggin candy bar? You shouldn't. Let her suck them down until she weighs 300 lbs. if she wants to. No skin off your back.

Ever gave up a fun activity you love because it's not her thing? Well? Go do it. Get out there and GAL, detach, and live like she doesn't exist. Do it for real. Don't fake it. It might change your perspective of this whole situation.



TxHubby,

Your definitely right about the candy bar, which is why I didn't say anything about it. I've been GAL, just need to do it a little more. And definitely will do so. May have post up pics on FB and IG, while doing so...LOL


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Originally Posted By: Uphill
I haven't read up on your whole thread yet but seen a few of the recent ones. I agree with txhubby. You are focusing way too much on her and the Twix situation. Get yourself a snickers and go have some fun. I'm not saying this in an ignorant way, but in a way that I know exactly what you are feeling and how this is consuming your thoughts. Back when my sitch was fresh, my own son knew OM as her pet name for him. Killed me a little inside every time I heard it. It wasn't until I truly GOT A LIFE and kept my mind busy with other things that I started feeling progress in the healing. For me it was kayaking, racing, even cleaning my house and retail therepy hat got my mind in a better place. Grab a nice new outfit, some new cologne and go out. Let your phone at home or in the car and actually have fun.

Don't pin on the troubles you are feeling at all moments of the day. Start small, a half hour. No thoughts of W. then go for an hour. Then two. Soon you will have days without the chest crushing thoughts consuming your life.

In my situation, as much as I thought I did, I never really detached. Now that I have, XF is a different person. I am living a happy, fulfilled life. To me, it now seems as if things clicked for her and she's waiting for my new girlfriend to slip up in any way. This all takes time and I'm not saying my path was always the correct one. But I have seen first hand that this process works if you are able to follow the steps and really GAL and detach.

Best of luck, I'll read up more here as soon as I have some time


Seeing my son know and hanging out with the OM would piss me off to the point of saying something. Not too bothered about the Twix. Just pointing out how my W tries to be slick with the things she does at times. GAL has helped and I plan on stepping it up even more that its getting warmer outside. Time to dig deep and bring out the old me. Which actually might be me having too much fun...lol


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Originally Posted By: Tread

TxHubby,

Your definitely right about the candy bar, which is why I didn't say anything about it. I've been GAL, just need to do it a little more. And definitely will do so. May have post up pics on FB and IG, while doing so...LOL


I understand it's hard to get rolling on it because as married guys we're used to compromising and only engaging in stuff that our wives like or are at lest cool with. You lose a lot of yourself because you haven't been an "I" for a while. You've been a "we". Well, she made herself an "I" and you need to do the same thing. She pulled back from you and did her own thing (albeit it was cheating, which is a horrible thing) but when she did that made you want her even more. When someone doesn't need us we want them all the more. You'll see that if you follow the plan. Get out there. Buy new clothes. Hit the gym. Do fun activities with friends. If you don't have available friends then go to a meetup for something you're interested in. Move on without her and there's a darn good chance it'll change her behavior. If it doesn't then no sweat, you were moving on anyway. It turns a really bad situation into a win-win situation. I myself 180'd, GAL'd, detached, and moved on so authentically that it turns out I don't even want to be married to my wife anymore. Now it's me who is leaving her and not the other way around. Get your mojo back my friend. Life is too short to be without your mojo.



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TxHubby,

Glad you brought that up, because the hardest part is going from "we" to "I". As an H, I dedicated my life to the my family. So all the people I partied and hung out with are gone once I settled into family mode. My goal for 2017 is to definitely recover my mojo.


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Originally Posted By: Tread
TxHubby,
Glad you brought that up, because the hardest part is going from "we" to "I". As an H, I dedicated my life to the my family. So all the people I partied and hung out with are gone once I settled into family mode.


Preaching to the choir my friend. Been there.


Originally Posted By: Tread
My goal for 2017 is to definitely recover my mojo.


That is AWESOME and is truly what GAL/detaching/moving on is all about. Your future will be as bright as you demand. You'll love it. Will there be times of doubt or sadness? Of course. Then again, when I think back to my childhood dog that has been long dead it makes me sad too. Fortunately I don't sit around thinking about my dead childhood dog or my dead marriage. Life is too short. I have confidence you're going to be fine.



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Hey Tread,

How have you been making out. I was catching up on your story for the last 2 days. I agree, the hardest part with GAL is going from we to I. Sometimes even with good friends you have a sense of loneliness but I am trying to refocus to positive thoughts when that happens. Hope your doing better.

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PEW,

Today we volunteered for a community service day with my W company. It's an event that we have done for the last three years, so the whole family went as usual. Had a good time, meeting other people and helping to make an impact in the community.

Couldn't help but to wonder if I should have decided not to go this year due to the current state of our marriage. Supposed to GAL, but it seems that we find ourselves doing a lot of things together, because we attend many events or volunteer for the same things every year. We haven't had issues at all doing these things and we still enjoys doing them together as a family. But I am wondering if I should be pulling away more. Even though these things bring me joy and possibly could be helping my W remember that I am actually a good guy.


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I understand how confusing this all is. If you have fun together and it doesn't set you back mentally then I don't see any harm in it. I know there are probably many different opinions on this.

I am running into a similar situation. Unlike between you and your W, me and my W were completely miserable 2 months ago and she hated me. So we haven't done anything together recently except her asking if I am going to be able to come to my son's baseball games. Which I do because I was always working before so it's nice to make the time to watch him play. But just this week she texted me saying that she sent me an email and before I could get to my email she called me. She said that our town has limited tickets to the Yankee game where they are retiring Derek Jeter's number so I said if it's something you really want to do let's get tickets. So she agreed and said she will buy 3 (for her, me and our son). Then the next day she calls and says maybe we should leave our son home since we will be out for over 6-7 hours and she doesn't think he will handle it well. He is only 7 and has your typical kids short attention span. So I agreed and said I will call up to cancel one of the tickets. This is the first time in a long time that she has wanted to do something with just me. So I am taking it for what it is which is just a chance to have a good time with my W without any of the normal daily issues we might have when we are together. Trying to stay detached and just find moments to enjoy with or without my W.

I have bunk you are handled by yourself fine and it seems you are becoming more confident in who you are. Keep doing what you are doing. I am praying for you brother.

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PEW,

Two week's ago my W emailed me at work wanting to know if I wanted to meet her at Applebees for drinks. So I agreed to me her. Showed up and had a good time. I know my W wants us to be friends if the marriage should end. We started off as good friends before dating, so being friendly has never been an issue. But after drinks we rented a movie, whichever later led to sex.

So whatever small opening your W is giving you, then take it. These W are curious because it is in their nature to do so. At the end of the day they just need to get back that feeling of hope in the marriage. Once that hope returns, then the marriage building can begin. And I'm praying for you as well


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Thanks. I am still learning a lot from Sandi2. I value her opinion since she was a WW. Getting that kind of perspective is so valueable. I see what you are saying with them maybe starting to see hope. It is not going by to change anything immediately but it might start the process. Like Sandi2 says, I realize my wife does not respect me and to an extent I can understand why with all the issues I brought to the table. The active affair is unacceptable and I am going to have to get her to either respect me or move on. Just waiting until after my daughters HS graduation party.

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Two quick questions.

1. Mothers Day is coming up. Do I celebrate it with my W and S13 like we do every year? Giving a card and going to breakfast/dinner? Or should I just go out of town this year to spend the day with my own mother?

2. My wife has a birthday coming up later this month. Do I do something nice for her(She has been hinting about trying horseback riding for the past year. And I wanted to surprise her with that before finding out about the A.)? If I shouldn't do anything special for that day, then how should I proceed?

Thanks in advance for any advice on the matter.


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Tread,

Wow, so you've got to dance through this for Mother's Day and a Birthday. I hope your Wedding Anniversary isn't in early June. :-)

My W and I are now physically separated sharing an apartment so the kids stay at home (place to crash when we're not at home with kids). For Mother's Day, I'm not doing anything personally for my W, but have helped my kids with gifts. My D13 is making a scrapbook for the W and I'm helping her.

For the bday, that's tough. If she's been talking about horseback riding all year and you've recognized this, that shows serious thought and listening on your part, but...

I'm not sure that penetrates a WW's mind as being thoughtful. I don't know that for sure, but that's how I read Sandi's post on this.

Best of luck in navigating.


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Tryin2figuritout,

Now that you mention it. This month also marks our 17th year together. Married almost 15 years. Sandi advice on the WW is good, but I wonder if everything applies to every WW. This surprise for my W could be a great thing and work in my favor. Or it could be a way for her to look at me like a sucker.

We still sleep in the same bed and are still having sex. Even though she still wants to leave. But has taken no steps to make that happen. OM is around in EA fashion at this point, whichever is limited to messaging. Neglect was our big issue, so wouldn't this be a huge 180? Even though I've done things for her birthday on past years.


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Tread,

You obviously have to go with your gut and do things as you see fit. It is very thoughtful of you to think of horseback riding lessons and if neglect was an issue this is good.

Just made 17 years with my W (married 16) in January. Is this the 17 year itch they're scratching???? Mine scratched 4 years ago but DB'ing prevailed. Not sure DB'ing will prevail again, but I'm all in.

Best.


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Hi Tread, I am flattered you asked me to take a look at your thread. I will try to catch up and then post my comments.


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Check this out. So I'm about to head out the door to get a pedicure. Something I do every month, since I am a diabetic and I get my toe nails clipped professionally. W asks where I'm going to, so I tell her that I'm going somewhere to get my feet looking right. So she makes a joke and playfully slaps me on the ass on my way out the door. I get back and she is real eager to look at my feet, then talking about how good they look.

I am not going to put too much into this. But it looks as if I'm continuing to head in the right direction. Also the DR book is amazing. Already mostly through it. This book should be handed out at the court house as your receive the marriage license.


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it certainly does sound positive, keep on the same path, don't revert


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hey Sandi, wondering if you would be so kind and have a look at mine as well. I respect your opinion


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Okay, read your thread and see that W told you she wanted a D. So as of right now, where does the M stand? Has she seen a lawyer or made any other attempts that would look as if she's preparing to leave the M?

You are having sex with her, knowing she had sex with OM. Was she tested for STD? Had your sex life fizzled out before she took the cruise and slept with OM?

I'm mostly asking questions here, not telling you what to do. However, I want to give you a word of caution about her easing back into the MR without making a commitment to do whatever is necessary to have a healthy and strong MR. The board has seen this played out many times in other stories. When a H tries to better himself (which is good) and the WW is friendlier for awhile......but still holds the "I want a divorce" over his head.........it can tie him to that roller coaster. One day he thinks things are better, but then his W doesn't want to give up her sources that help feed her waywardness. She does nothing to earn his trust, continues her disrespect. In order for him to be able to live in the M........he tries to turn a blind eye to her unacceptable behavior and activities. He will repeat things he picks up from the board and try to wear a convincing front by saying he can't control what she does (which is true) and he's doing x,y, & z for himself, yada, yada. He doesn't truly heal, and she remains in her wayward status. The couple eventually falls back into their old slack ways and the W continues to keep the lines hot looking for the next OM.

You can go for the rest of your life living just like things are now. It may get a little better. Of course you cannot cross your W b/c she holds the power in this relationship. Being wayward and her making no effort to change, or even being remorseful........ things may get worse between the two of you. How many affairs (EA, PA, IA) has she had since you M her? You don't seem too phased that she had sex a few times with the guy on the cruise. Is that b/c of the length of time it has been (before last Thanksgiving)?

I think you are trying hard to stop the divorce train. From the view of other LBS, you may look as if you are doing fine. ( I agree you need to seriously GAL. ). IMHO, I think she will hold the divorce sign over your head, and whenever you say a word that doesn't set well for her.......she'll pull out the sign, b/c that's her leverage. She has seen how it's worked to whip you in shape.

You mentioned her childhood, can you tell us what she experienced?

Have to run, but I'll check back later.


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Sandi,

Your definitely good. It hurts knowing that you just got a verbal kick in the ass, but you're good. W has not said anything about a BD in 3 weeks. But hasn't committed to MR either. Both of us got tested after I found out. Both came up clean. And our sex life was suffering in 2016. Mostly due to her nonstop periods throughout the year. They would stop for a day or two and pick up again. It was like this up to a few days prior to going on the cruise.

As for previous A. She admitted when I found out about the OM that she kissed a childhood friend back in during a visit to our home city. This guy has a W and apparently asked and she said yes. It happened at a bar she was with her cousin at and the moment the cousin went the bathroom this guy made the request. W said it was insignificant, so she kept it to herself. Then other one was a week after the cruise. Again while visiting our home city, another childhood who had a crush on her who she turned down back in the day. He invited W to his house, which I had no clue about because she had went to her uncles house to visit. But then left to see this guy(she left that out when I asked how her uncles was doing initially). I found messages with a friend of hers about meeting up with this guy. From the message no sex clearly happened. And when I confronted W, she claimed he asked for a kiss. In her words "she didn't say yes, but didn't say no either." So he kissed her and when he tried to do it a second time, she pulled away. Then left back to her uncles house. To be honest, I believe something more may have happened. But without proof, I let it go.

OM who she is she was having the PA and now EA is the elephant in the room. And the trigger for the BD. There was problems in the MR, but his presence is what pushed her. We both saw a lawyer in December, but no moves have been made by either of us. For someone who wants to leave W has made no moves whatsoever to save money or anything for an apartment. And technically hasn't even mentioned getting an apartment in about a month. Right now its if she is waiting to see how things go with me at the moment. DR suggests not bringing up the R, so I just stay quiet, until W brings it up.

But I agree heavily with in regards to her holding the DB over my head. At first, I felt I didn't have a leg to stand on by making her decide. Because at the time, I would have lost that bet. Now my legs are much stronger and she can see that losing the MR is not a good thing. Figured I could carry on this way for the next 2 or 3 months before pushing for W to decide to leave or stay. But I won't tolerate the blatant disrespect of the OM in the picture, even if its just through messaging. Any further advice would be very much appreciated.


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Quote:
Both of us got tested after I found out. Both came up clean. And our sex life was suffering in 2016. Mostly due to her nonstop periods throughout the year. They would stop for a day or two and pick up again. It was like this up to a few days prior to going on the cruise.


Very smart in getting tested, and I'm sure you are relieved at the results.

What are the ages of you and your W? Has her doctor given her an answer for why her periods are nearly nonstop?

Quote:
As for previous A. She admitted when I found out about the OM that she kissed a childhood friend back in during a visit to our home city. This guy has a W and apparently asked and she said yes. It happened at a bar she was with her cousin at and the moment the cousin went the bathroom this guy made the request. W said it was insignificant, so she kept it to herself. Then other one was a week after the cruise. Again while visiting our home city, another childhood who had a crush on her who she turned down back in the day. He invited W to his house, which I had no clue about because she had went to her uncles house to visit. But then left to see this guy(she left that out when I asked how her uncles was doing initially). I found messages with a friend of hers about meeting up with this guy. From the message no sex clearly happened. And when I confronted W, she claimed he asked for a kiss. In her words "she didn't say yes, but didn't say no either." So he kissed her and when he tried to do it a second time, she pulled away. Then left back to her uncles house. To be honest, I believe something more may have happened. But without proof, I let it go.


These events happened in a time span fairly close? I realize this has to be extremely painful for you. Has your W always had a flirty personality when around other men? I mean, like trying to get their attention? In the past, did you ever have arguments over her behavior when around other men?

I will pass along what Starsky/Puppy Dog Tails (who had a WW, and saved his M) use to tell LBH's. A WW will usually confess at least one level lower than the true facts. In other words, if she says they only kissed, it probably means it was more than just one little kiss and that's all. We've seen stories where a WW will tell her H that she spent the night with OM in a motel room....but didn't have sex. The best one I've read is where the WW claims she stopped in the middle of having intercourse b/c her guilty conscious bothered her. And of course, the H said he "chose" to believe her. WW's seldom feel a lot of guilt during the affair, b/c they justify their actions. Anyway, you can take all of that for whatever you think it's worth.

I think your W is in serious trouble, but she can turn around and commit to doing whatever is necessary to save her MR. It will take a strong man who will not tolerate any more of her inappropriate behavior with other men. By strong, I mean he has to set clear boundaries and if they are dishonored, he has to be prepared to backup his word. She will, no doubt, test you. I strongly believe in boundaries being necessary when having a wayward wife. This is a component in DBing a W who is wayward. When I see someone in this type of inappropriate behavior (especially one act following another same act) I have to wonder if she's ever had deal with consequences of dishonoring someone's boundaries.

Does your W have a sense of entitlement? Does she act as if she's a little spoiled girl when she doesn't get her way? Do you often feel manipulated, but you go along with her, trying to keep the peace? Some H's just don't think it's worth the fallout, so they suck it up and don't make waves. However, a WW sees him being passive and weak.....b/c he won't stand up for himself, and pretty much allows her to rule his everyday life.

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We both saw a lawyer in December, but no moves have been made by either of us. For someone who wants to leave W has made no moves whatsoever to save money or anything for an apartment. And technically hasn't even mentioned getting an apartment in about a month.


I don't think she wants a divorce......not right now, anyway. If she is conducting inappropriate behavior and bouncing from man to man while getting all the benefits of being married to you......why would she throw it away? She threatened, and now it has rocked on this long without her being required to make changes in her life.....so, I'm thinking she feels pretty secure. And, I think she will continue talking online to men or flirting in person, taking more risks. She gets a "high" from it, and that's what draws her. So, all of this seems to be working for her. It's not working for you, however, and you have to do more than have relationship talks.

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Right now its if she is waiting to see how things go with me at the moment. DR suggests not bringing up the R, so I just stay quiet, until W brings it up.


Setting boundaries about what you will do if she continues to disrespect you, is not having a relationship talk. If you have read my posts to Pew, then you'll see how I explained it to him. I agree it is pointless to have a R talk. Yet, you can't just sit back and do nothing. In other words, you don't need to talk you way out of this, you need to use action.

Quote:
Figured I could carry on this way for the next 2 or 3 months before pushing for W to decide to leave or stay.


First of all, why on earth would you do that ^^^^^^to yourself? Secondly, if you apply boundaries and start showing some spunk....you won't be pushing her to decide anything, b/c you make it about YOU, not her.

Your mindset is not at all unusual for a newcomer. However, you are thinking to yourself that "she" will make the right decisions and start working on the MR when she's had enough time. At best, the WW will stay legally M, but she won't put forth effort to make the MR a happy one, nor an intimate one. She has to be motivated by what she sees in you.

She has to see that you are a man, not some wuss she can kick around. What has she seen in you, so far? Is she concerned she is losing you due to her bad behavior? Her waiting around to see what you do.....is not her worrying that you will leave her. The longer you quietly sit around, the less chance she will give it a second thought.

Having said all of that, let me clarify something. I don't want you to jump off into something before you learn what to do and how to go about it. Okay?

It bothers me for a H to take & take his WW's treatment......but instead of him doing what he needs to do, he will give up and see divorce as his only option. It's not, and that's why I would like to help you, if I can. I can't guarantee it will save your M, but neither can anyone else.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Sandi,

Forgot to discuss my W childhood. He parents never married. Father was neglectful, even though they have a good relationship now(they tale pretty much every day). He mother very abusive and was known to sleep around, especially with people's husbands. Seems to be a generational family curse. My W was the exception who managed to stay a virgin until meeting myself. For her sex without love made no sense. Now her views have seemed to completely change, since the cruise. Hearing her talk now is like listening to MIL and I hate it. Because my MIL is trifling.

I am 36 and W is 33. Her period were always sporadic over the years, last year it just got bad. So in November the doctor gave her hormone pill and it finally set everything straight like a day prior to the cruise. I was very excited and looking forward to my W returning. But apparently she made up for lost time with somebody else...smh

As far as the peck she said claimed to have with the first guy in July. I'm sure it was a little more kissing than that. As for the guy she claimed to have just kissed at his home. I believe there was probably some kissing and groping. And she likely stopped things before it went too far, judging from the text to her friend.

Both her parents are flirts and she is one as well. I've never had an issue with it, because its never happened in front of me. And there was never any signs of phone numbers changing hands or anything. Prior to this, she was heavily against this type of behavior. Now she has thrown her morals out the window. Lately she has been acting like an entitled teenager and her best friend caught it as well. Which is why he and his wife have decided to have nothing to do with her. When I read her explanation of the WW, it matched damn near perfectly with W change of behavior.

At the moment, I feel that she likes the attention from text, FB and IG from other men. But is currently messing with no one I believe, because the obsession/fantasy is with OM who lives in VA. There seems to be a loyalty towards him, even though he clearly has no loyalty towards her. Based on when his W finds out, he has disappeared and cut contact twice already. But when I question my W when catching her, I get nothing but defiance.

Boundaries is where I'm stuck. Not sure what the consequences should be at this point. Like I said before she didn't give a damn. Now that she is getting the changes she always wanted. W might actually care about the boundaries I set. But I need example of consequences, because I honestly can't think of any other than putting her out. And I believe that's where PEW and myself are stuck at.

Currently I'm at the part of DR where Carol is changing for her husband who is unwilling to give up OW. So Carol put that on the back burner at the moment. I just assumed that was the place, I'm at currently. What she has seen in me is change. But also when I get fed up, I block what her and other OM are doing. I have contacted OMW twice already. And by doing so the A has stopped. The first time was a month and a half. And the second time they removed each other from FB and IG. Though they probably still contact each other via messenger now probably. So she knows I won't take it, but I have no real options with consequences. Its not as if I'm dealing with my child. Even though W behavior matches that of one.


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So I get home from work and my W is in the bedroom with the door closed talking with her sister. She had just got home from her counseling session . And I over hear her talking about how the counselor was asking her what type of man she wanted after the divorce. Now she was joking about how she no longer wanted a short man. Now I'm 5'5" and ironically enough the OM is only 2 inches taller than me. But this woman has the audacity to joke with her 220lb sister. While is she 280lbs at this point has the nerve to talk about me...smh. This is also the same sister who's cousin she was screwing. At this point I'm real tempted to tell SIL about how devious her older sister has been to the both of us. This woman is seriously going to take kindness for weakness. And now has the nerve to ask if I'm helping her cook. The old me would have taken her head off. She lucky that someone lives her big ass enough to fight for her, even when she is doing wrong. Because there are women out there with better attitudes, loyal and in much better shape.


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Alright something interesting just happened. About an hour after venting in here went to clean the kitchen and assist with cooking. My W walked up to me and said "I hate to admit it, but you really are changing for the better. Keep it up."

This may not seem like much, but two week's ago, she thought this was some kind of trick. Now she is starting to believe. For a moment I was wondering if I actually getting somewhere with her.


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Her comment does sound positive but you never really know the real reason she said it. These WW are very confusing and very intentional with their words/actions. I have been trying to really pay attention to Sandi2 comments and suggestions and over all I have been feeling more confident in what I need to do to try snap her out of this way of life and get myself to not focus so much on my W and her actions and move toward a healthier and stronger me.

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I know what you mean. Came home yesterday after talking with my father who isn't happy about the situation. So W may have seen the look on my face that said get rid of her. Especially after overhearing what I heard. But she also saw her counselor who probably inquired about me and caused her to realize that she had absolutely nothing to complain about in regards to me. So what ideas have you come up with for consequences for breaking those boundaries? Still waiting to hear back from Sandi with ideas.


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To be honest I am still trying to figure that out. Going to try and work on it with Sandi2 and get her opinion. Regardless of the outcome of my situation, she has been a tremendous help and an emotional light for me through these very dark day. I find comfort in her knowledge and suggestions.

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Seems like the only boundary with a consequence I could think of. Is evicting my W for getting in a PA with OM at this point. Not sure what I can do about the messaging at this point. But the last 2 weeks, since I contacted OMW. Which led to W getting kicked to curb again by OM. I see less signs of that happening of contact between W and OM.


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I don't think you can set a consequence for her past mistake with the PA. From what I believe it means you put an action/consequence in place from this point on. I could be wrong but it seems the point of boundaries is what you will and will not tolerate going forward. Again, this is coming from someone who is trying to figure this portion of DBing out too.

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Boundaries are something you set now and enforce from this point forward. I will not be disrespected in "......." manner anymore and if I am, this will happen. Do not set a boundary you are not willing to enforce because you will be tested. If the line is crossed without repercussion, you will be tested further and further.

As far as messaging, you can very well set a boundary on that but just expect that to drive it underground. Somewhere untracable such as Snapchat, Skype, google hangouts... the possibilities are endless these days. None of them will ever show up as a flash on the radar.

Just remember. A boundary set is a boundary which you need to enforce. Nothing undermines you more than weakness.


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Sorry for the confusion, but I actually meant from this moment forward. Or actually back in late December. I apologized to my W for my actions, which led to her A. And that I was going to make changes necessary for the MR. But I told her from that point on continuing to the A was solely on her. And using me for an excuse for her actions was not going to work. Also that I wouldn't tolerate further PA between the two of them. Figured there is no need to enforce that boundary, since it should be obvious.

And let's not forget that messenger now has a secret conversation setting for the cheater who forgets to delete their messages. Found that being used back in December when I was finding things on FB messenger. But what should the consequence be for catching W using these tools to contact OM?


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Originally Posted By: Tread
Now she was joking about how she no longer wanted a short man. Now I'm 5'5" and ironically enough the OM is only 2 inches taller than me. But this woman has the audacity to joke with her 220lb sister. While is she 280lbs at this point has the nerve to talk about me...smh.

She lucky that someone lives her big ass enough to fight for her, even when she is doing wrong. Because there are women out there with better attitudes, loyal and in much better shape.

Just reposting this so you can look at these words again. I wonder what your W would think reading your inner thoughts about her - regardless of the A.

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Kaizen,

And that is why I vented on here, instead of going to her or someone we know. Was that harsh what I said, yeah. But I loved this woman regardless of weight gain, health issues or what childhood issues she brought into this relationship. Any other man would have ran for the hills.

But I'm still here regardless. And her sister wouldn't be laughing if she knew that her sister was having an A with her cousin who has a family of his own. Hopefully my W would realize that she is out of line. And I have never felt this way about W in regards to weight until I heard her say what she did. And the audacity of it all came to mind.


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Originally Posted By: Tread
Kaizen,

And that is why I vented on here, instead of going to her or someone we know. Was that harsh what I said, yeah. But I loved this woman regardless of weight gain, health issues or what childhood issues she brought into this relationship. Any other man would have ran for the hills.

But I'm still here regardless. And her sister wouldn't be laughing if she knew that her sister was having an A with her cousin who has a family of his own. Hopefully my W would realize that she is out of line. And I have never felt this way about W in regards to weight until I heard her say what she did. And the audacity of it all came to mind.


I know you were venting, but do you truly believe that no one else would want her because she is over weight and has childhood issues and she is lucky to have you?

Because if that is your true belief, she senses it. And how hurtful is that? You are with her when no one else would want to be?

I'll be honest, I unfortunately know women who (although very wrong) who lived this and what did they do? Set out to prove their H's wrong. That they COULD get someone else.

You may think because you love her when no one else would that you are raising her self esteem, but really, you are destroying it.

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Ginger,

The point is that not too many people would tolerate those things. Especially when they know she has been talking bad about them. By your logic, I have to prove her wrong based on the things she said about me. Once again, I never thought that at all prior to her saying those comments about me. I was just pointing out the audacity as if my height makes me not good enough. But there are those who could say the same about her weight. But you all seem to be ignoring that fact...smh


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No one is ignoring that. You think she is fat and she doesn't want to date short guys anymore. I get it.

I'm looking at the bigger picture here, something that could help you in the long run.

How would you feel if she her thoughts all along have been " he's lucky I love him because other women would run from a short guy"

I am asking an honest question here. Have you always felt she was lucky you love her because she is fat and has childhood issues and no one else would want that? Because you stated that. I am asking you if you mean that or that has been the way you have felt all along.

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So you are saying you said it out of anger and really don't mean it?

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Originally Posted By: Tread
Ginger,

The point is that not too many people would tolerate those things. Especially when they know she has been talking bad about them. By your logic, I have to prove her wrong based on the things she said about me.

you mean, 180s? Countering her negative images of you with new positives?

Once again, I never thought that at all prior to her saying those comments about me. I was just pointing out the audacity as if my height makes me not good enough. But there are those who could say the same about her weight. But you all seem to be ignoring that fact...smh


No, we are not ignoring that fact. I am surprised you are here trying to save your m.

here's a tough question & I really want you to dig deep about it...are you here to save the marriage, or are you here so you can "win" and not feel rejected?


I feel like you speak of your wife with such contempt, and I don't mean just about the affair

but about HER. I suspect you do think she's lucky to have any man, and that this attitude affected her deeply.

So Ginger's point about her proving you wrong, is insightful for you.

Just take it in. No one is attacking you. We are giving you feedback about what your comments seem to reveal -

that might have been revealed in your behavior or comments to your wife...

Saying you "apologized for your behavior that lead to her A" but then constantly making her A the focus, and now her weight,

undermines your whole personal accountability issue, imo.

How are you a different man now? How would you be a better h to her, now?

Remember, she's not here trying to save the m. You are.


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Originally Posted By: Ginger1
No one is ignoring that. You think she is fat and she doesn't want to date short guys anymore. I get it.

I'm looking at the bigger picture here, something that could help you in the long run.

How would you feel if she her thoughts all along have been " he's lucky I love him because other women would run from a short guy"


I am asking an honest question here. Have you always felt she was lucky you love her because she is fat and has childhood issues and no one else would want that? Because you stated that. I am asking you if you mean that or that has been the way you have felt all along.


Her bringing up me being short was her way of demeaning me. So that's actually up there with saying that I'm lucky she chose to be with a short man. I've never felt that way ever that she was lucky to have me. I was pissed at the time, said in the forum which is a safe place to vent. Prayed and then helped my W cook dinner. I'm not going to around telling my W that she lucky to have me, because nobody else wants an overweight woman. Just pointing out that there are men out who might reject her saying they don't want to deal with an overweight woman. Just like she's saying that about short men.


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25yearsmic,

I bring up the A, because it is continuing at an EA level. So yes, I have been discussing ways on stopping that. As for 180s, I don't have an anger issue. But if someone says something smart to me, them respond taking it up a notch. Realizing that was my issue, through counseling I have made it a point to simply respond to my W differently and I have seen the results of that. I have been giving my W more attention and helping out more. Which she has also noticed.

The only time, I have spoken with contempt was in regards to the comment she made about me. Which also stems from several things I have found she has said about me in messages I have found. Trust me the things she has said deserves harsher words. But I have let it go for the sake of fixing the MR. I am the only in this MR taking personal accountability and I am fine with that.

But somehow you think bringing up how to deal with my the elephant in the room, which is my W EA is somehow solely focusing on the A makes no sense. Saying your surprised I'm here means that you skimmed through most of the comments and focused on one short vent session. I'll remind myself next time to keep it all to myself.


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Originally Posted By: Tread
25yearsmic,

I bring up the A, because it is continuing at an EA level. So yes, I have been discussing ways on stopping that. As for 180s, I don't have an anger issue. But if someone says something smart to me, them respond taking it up a notch. Realizing that was my issue, through counseling I have made it a point to simply respond to my W differently and I have seen the results of that. I have been giving my W more attention and helping out more. Which she has also noticed.

well done


The only time, I have spoken with contempt was in regards to the comment she made about me. Which also stems from several things I have found she has said about me in messages I have found. Trust me the things she has said deserves harsher words. But I have let it go for the sake of fixing the MR. I am the only in this MR taking personal accountability and I am fine with that.

most LBSers have to start and end with this accountability thing for a long long time. It's valuable to know.


But somehow you think bringing up how to deal with my the elephant in the room, which is my W EA is somehow solely focusing on the A makes no sense. Saying your surprised I'm here means that you skimmed through most of the comments and focused on one short vent session. I'll remind myself next time to keep it all to myself.



really?? That's what you are taking away from this?

We cannot do anything about your w's EA/PA. She is not here trying to save the m.

We can only help you. Hence the focus on you and your choices.


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You clearly missed something in previous conversation. In regards to my W EA, I was discussing boundaries. Which involves focusing on me.


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