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Hello Mighty Job!!

Thank you for responding! I've done most of what you've suggested in the way of joint accounts and credit cards. I hate to jinx myself, but H hasn't gone crazy with the money. He has been giving me what I need but probably less than I want. Lol. We don't keep any money in the joint checking acct other than what he gives me for bills. So far, so good. But I know exactly what you're saying about squirreling away 'my' money. I don't keep any money in my personal account except for personals and maybe utility money that he hasn't agreed to pay. Things like the cable bill and my cell aren't worth arguing over.

My issue is that I've started all this with me moving out thing and feel like I have to follow thru with it. I've had stuff packed up in boxes for 8 months but still haven't done anything in the way of moving out. I know he thinks I'm all talk bc I told him that if I leave bc of his crazy antics, I won't be returning...ever. He said, "Well, you haven't gone anywhere, yet!" In other words, he's saying that he's not going to stop his crazy antics because he knows that I'm not going to leave. I'm scared to leave bc I know myself well enough to know that when I'm gone...I'm done. It's always been like that with me. I run. I run far. I don't look back. It's just something I've always done as a survival technique. I've been abandon so many times throughout my life and I only know to start over in order to save myself.

I can tell my H is getting nervous. He was very reluctant to figure out the financial agreement. I guess he thinks the money convo is the end all..?? He put it in the mailbox and sent me a text saying "if there's anything that you don't agree with, I'll fix it." I was short in my response. I've been ending my text by saying his name at the end. Ex; Thanks, Larry. His name isn't Larry but you get the idea. He doesn't like that at all. He always ask why do I keep saying his name? I think he believes that I'm cutting him off by doing it and it's certainly not to be meant as friendly. I've done some spewing since then by reminding him of everything that's happened. I know not to do this. I know it's not DB'ing but sometimes I can't help myself. It washes over me like a flood and I need for him to know what he's done right that minute. WHY??? Why do I do that??!! I know that he knows what he's done. He's even told me that he cries all the time and that he doesn't know how to fix this. He said the last part right after the OW was discovered. I just spewed hate back then so it really didn't get very far in the way of reconciling.

I know H is asking my brother to find out if I'm seeing anyone. My brothers worship H so they will do whatever he ask of them. So, what's your take on this? Just when I've asked him to do something like the financial agreement that he thinks is the first sign of divorce, he starts trying to find out if I'm seeing anyone. Also, he's having a fit that I'm going to be out of town a few nights next week an he has to stay with our dog. He said "you're staying overnight?" I've rarely done that at all since he's left. Why is he so inquisitive right now? He has the mind of a 8 year old so I'm I can't help but think that he is starting to feel like he's losing me all together. Any thoughts?

Thank you in advance, Job!!

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Hey Own It,

You intrigued me, so I read the beginnings of your sitch and feel your pain. I know you must feel drained. I often wonder why I've stayed as long as I have, too. Why?? I've always been told that I'm easy on the eyes, so I know I could find another man to put up with me.lol I'm sure you're equally HOT!

Anyway, I highly doubt the reward is worth all this pain and heartache these men have caused us. I will occasionally remember the good times in my marriage and quickly go back to what's happened the last 15 months...then I start hating him again. My emotions get the better of me sometimes but I've kept it fairly cool under the circumstances. I know my H knows exactly what he's doing but does it anyway. I would watch him watch me while he was texting OW. I know they like the euphoria behind the possibility of getting caught. Then it got to the point that he was texting her constantly in every situation we were in. We could be in the middle of a family function and he would be texting her constantly. It was so obnoxious. As I sit here and type this, I'm making myself sick to my stomach.

As far as me putting too much of this on me, I've always been guilty of that. BUT, I have been awful to him over the years. I emasculated him in front of others, made him feel replaceable, kinda cheated (long story) and just downright mean. I have issues that I've been dealing over the years and it wasn't easy to see myself in that light. I finally got off drugs, quit drinking and made a conscious effort to stop my bad behavior. I think I had my own MLC and he was there but only in body. He was addicted to alcohol, porn and video games for years. I'm talking 12 hours at a time playing World of Warcraft and countless hours watching porn. I got tired of being ignored so I found a place that made me feel special. I swear, I was so close to putting my foot in that damn computer!

I wonder how you feel about questions on intimacy? I have to share bc I feel like you have either been thru this or something close to it. So, I did EVERYTHING he wanted in the bedroom dept. Some of it was humiliating. He was selfish in every way and the bedroom wasn't any different. This is the sort of thing that makes me wonder why in the he!! Am I sticking around?! Why would I want to go back to this kind of marriage??

My confusion comes when I read the 6 stages of MLC. The part when they have their first awakening after replay. They supposedly make all these changes they should have made years ago; for a while. My H actually did get to that point but it was too short lived and I'm not sure he was in the complete awakening. I shouldn't have brought up OP bc I know that's what put him back in the tunnel for a much more difficult round for me. BUT, aren't they suppose to come out a much better person when all is said and done? I saw where Vanilla talked to you about abuse and I feel my H is the definition of NPD. I'm just not sure if it's true because of what's happened since MLC began or if I've lived with it from day one. Could I have been that blind?? I honestly don't know. Do you still think your H has NPD by the way he treated you throughout your marriage? I'm so confused.

Today is my 17 wedding Anniversary and I'm pretty much numb to it. He's already texted me to see if he can pick up our dog to spend time with him. He was being cordial and agreeable. He's like that sometimes but I can't remember if it's when I'm being nice or if he still does it when I'm being not so nice. Hard to tell these days bc I'm too hurt and angry to care about his feelings. I've been wanting to manipulate him into sending me a sweet text (I can do that) and then sending it to OW. I know how wrong it is so I've been good. It's probably just because it's my anniversary but I've been known to do a lot worse before my marriage. Before I was a better person. I'm hoping that I keep my composure and save what little bit of dignity I have left by not doing it. I've been so manipulated and lied to so many times that I often feel spiteful. I want to rise above this and stay cool. I pray I do that at all times in the future.

Anyway, I'm thru with my rant. Thank you for any perspective you may have on my sitch. It's much appreciated!! I hope your weekend is fabulous!!

Xx, Nee

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Nee, you really have to come to terms with what you want. You are all over the place. If you were in your car driving from point A to point B (but weren't sure if you wanted pointed X or point Z) you would need to know where you were heading to have any chance of getting there. I don't think this is all that different.

I'm not sure at this point if my H is NPD, MLC, or PA or some combination thereof. I am in NYC to see my daughter perform at a recital. Apparently he flew here overnight on the redeye and will fly home immediately after today (and we live on the opposite coast). This is a guy who can't even text or call her consistently. Nothing they do makes sense.

On the intimacy issue, mine acted very much like a prude with me and constantly withheld emotion, affection, sex, etc. (Although I do believe he is a cerebral narcissist with a serious madonna/whore complex). I was literally shocked to find his CL ads for threesomes with lesbians. Did not see that coming. At this point I don't feel like I have any idea who he is or perhaps who he ever was.

Sounds like you have some compulsive and/or addictive behaviors. It is good that you own your problems from the past but what are you actively doing to change them. It seems as though you want to move to prove to him you will move in the hope that he will take you seriously and/or want you back. Stop looking over your shoulder to see what he is doing.

Not surprising that he is asking about you. Both NPD and MLC like control. He probably wants to know what you are doing. Mine also has a very big control thing. I feel him keeping tabs on me but I let it go.

At the end of the day it is very simple. Work on you. If you want a chance with him, stay in the house. What if you unpacked? I would think that would freak him out. What if you unpacked and stopped all communication except responding to business type requests. What if you worked on the addictions, got a meaningful job and moved forward with your life. You want to see him freak out? Try those things. If you are done, move out and put him in your rearview. Much easier thing to do with no kids (and I don't recall seeing any mentioned).

As a first matter, where are you going?

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Nee,

Please understand that the 6 stages of MLC are just a guideline. Nothing is set in stone. In fact, the stages aren't linear, but they can bounce back and forth until they finally realize that they've exhausted all avenues of escape. In fact, the stages are very similar to those of grief. I've said this many times over, do not try to figure out where he is in the crisis because he'll be bouncing off the walls for quite some time and the timelines are just a guideline. Each person is unique because of their childhoods and the issues that they have and so shall each of their actions be different while in crisis.

Put the stages away and focus on you. No matter what, there's nothing you can do to wake him up or making his crisis go any faster...it's on him. You can't control him, nor fix him. He has to do the repair work on his own.

Again...keep the focus on you! Take care of you!


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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I knew I liked you, Own it.

It's all so crazy, isn't it? I can give so much useful advice sometimes to others but can hardly see what I'm doing wrong at any time of the day. That's why I came here. You folks talk me off the ledge every single time I need it. I actually just sent you a response from your other thread "Not sure if it's NPD'.." to give you my perspective on what you're husband was doing in the beginning stages of your sitch. I hope you'll read it because your H is SO much like mine.

You're right, Own it. I am all over the place. I'm in a unique living situation so it's not all that cut and dry. Still, I like your advice. I just don't know right now if I want to save my marriage. I know he doesn't really want me to leave in his heart but I sure don't know what his MLC is trying to say. He refuses to communicate on any level understanding. I know I just probably follow thru with moving out but I know I will be done if I do. That's my dilima. If I did my pros and cons as ive always done, I would be out the door in a heartbeat...but we're not dealing with something that logical. I hate it. I really do.

I'm still continuing to work on myself and learning who I am at my core. It's strange to know that I'm still discoverying myself at 46 years old but I figure that it's better than not doing it. I know I'm a good person but am I good all the time. Can I do better? Will I do better? It's a test that I'm doing daily and it really helps me.

No one said life is boring. wink

Xx, Nee

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Hi Job,

I know..I've heard it a million times over. Don't put any real thought into the stages. It's hard not to but I'm getting better at leaving it be. Trust me, I use to look for hours at these stages trying to figure it all out. Moving forward.

Things go well when I'm dark or dim and he gets very attentive but I don't know how to handle his attempts on willingness to interact during this time. He'll ask me to go to breakfast with him but i get confused because I don't know if he's been with OW the night before. I typically know bc he's at his mom's prior to he invitation but it still gets to me if I'm unsure if he's seen her recently. Is this a good idea to go with him to breakfast? We do seem to enjoy the time together and he does get closer to me widen I cut the visit short without him initiating the goodbye first. Still, should I get together with him when I'm getting good results from not contacting him until he reaches out to me. I don't like the idea that he may be just checking in rather than really reconnecting with me. He does make good eye contact with me and continues to move forward with a good attitude...until I get resentful again. I guess I need to deal with this anger and hurt inside but I don't want to miss the opportunity to reconnect with him if he's genius. Should I go to breakfast with him?

Thank you, Nee

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Nee, I just checked out your response on my Newcomer thread. Yes, the people here and the stories here have helped me considerably in a short period of time. I don't think I would have been able to detach as much as I have had I not come here. But, I have much wore work to do. The fact that his coldness and his treatment of my daughter (not to mention completely ignoring my son) continue to bother me show that I am nowhere near where I need to be. But I am proud of how I have handled the journey and proud of my success.

Onto you. While you don't know what you want, sit tight. Moving out is making a choice and it likely will have long-lasting consequences for you.

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Figure out what you want. You cannot negotiate, you cannot move forward, you cannot really do much of anything that will be in alignment with your rue self unless you know what you want. Impatience will not help you. Trying to adapt what you want to what your spouse wants will not help your marriage or your husband, not to mention the damage it will ultimately do to you.

OwnIt is right - the best gift you can give yourself is to sit tight until you really know what you want. That advice came from our mediator, and it's proven to be exceptionally sound in my case. It's not easy to resist the temptation to jump to a quick fix, but if you really sit with yourself long enough to figure out what it is that you really want, you can then move forward from a position of strength.

In my case, I had lousy cards to choose from - either sell our house so our son could stay in his school, or stay in our house and have son move to a school in a town he never lived in where he didn't really know anyone. My son loves his school and to him that house was his home. When he was little he would say to us after an outing, "I've had fun but let's go back to our cozy home." It was and remains very painful to me to have sold that property, but what I wanted for my son was a solid education with as little disruption to his life as possible. He would have left in two years for college and the house would have been sold at that time. To me, it was better to keep him in his school, where he'd been and thrived since 7th grade. That was what would give him the most advantage and good memories in his life. This was not an easy decision to come to for me, Nee, but I gave myself time to sit with my thoughts and feelings, sort through it all with as little emotion as possible and then I moved forward. I did it on MY timetable, not my exh's. BTW, doing it on my Exh's timetable wouldn't have save the marriage. It would have only put me in a position of weakness on the business end of this relationship.

Figure out what you want. Take as much time as you need to do so.


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
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^^^true self not rue self. acting precipitously will absolutely be in line with your rue self, lol, as there's a high probability that you will rue any decisions made in haste.


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
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Nee Offline OP
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Own It,

I need to go back and read all your threads and follow your journey, I can tell just by responses to me that you've come a long way from where you were in the beginning,

One thing I am SO grateful for is the no kids part of my sitch. We do have 2 dogs and they were pitiful when he came and went at his leisure, but I know it would be nothing compared to watching my children be neglected or just tossed aside.

I think about what I would do to my H had he done some of these things had we had kids and I see a monster in me. I don't know how you mom's do it. From what I can tell, y'all go into survival mode (mama bear) and protect your young by showing strength to your children and living life as a single parent. I'm sure I would if I had to in order to protect the child, but I garauntee I wouldn't have the grace most of you mom's have during this difficult time.

I wonder if your mother-n-law has scolded your H. My mother-n-law would have a fit if she knew what her son was doing, but I spare her of the details BUT, I don't think I would have to worry about my H doing this much damage had we had children bc his mom would crawl his a**...but then that would be a whole set of other problems.

I detest MLC! Other than the death of my H, I can't think of anything worse than going thru MLC with a spouse. In fact, my H did die. He's not the man I married, so I consider him dead and gone most of the time. I see MLC as some sort of breakdown of sorts, but I rarely treat him like he's 'unwell'. I had a lot more compassion for him before I discovered OW. It all went down hill from there, of course. No more compassion..just anger and hurt..hurt and anger..anger and hurt.

The loyalty we had as a couple was unheard of...I thought. If he knew what he was doing while in MLC and was in his right mind, he wouldn't believe he could do such things. Maybe that's what happens for the awakening to come about but they sure don't want to go there anytime soon, do they??!!!!

I'm just ranting this morning and not focused whatsoever on what I need to do in the way of my living situation. I guess that's what you all have been saying to me every chance you get. I DON'T KNOW what I want. Why do I have to know???? I mean, I can play house by myself for as long as I want without having to move, but I don't want to seem like waiting on him to come back bc I don't think I could live with who he is today. Maybe that will be my breaking point...he decides to move home and i get the heck out! It sure makes more sense than me paying rent somewhere any sooner than I have to.

Should I continue packing up my stuff and putting them in boxes just in case? I don't know what kind of message that is sending but I hope it's telling him that I'm willing and ready to move out at any time I feel froggy. Is that wrong??

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