Married 23 years, together 26, two kids, boy 17, girl 15. I was told she wanted a divorce in July '16, and she filed immediately. She has talked about it for a long time, but finally made the decision. She says we want two different things in marriage. I want a companion, friend, confidante, lover; she says she just doesn't ever see wanting a physical relationship with anyone ever again. She wants me to find someone that will make me happy, and fulfill my needs. She bought a house in Dec, and is moving out imminently. We've been through years of counseling, but she doesn't want to go any more. She says she has no desire to reconcile (I know, believe none of what you hear and half of what you see....).
We had a good marriage for a long time, but issues with her smoking, her deteriorating health (9 surgeries in the last 8 years.... bunion surgery gone horribly wrong), her fibromyalgia, her depression, her “putting the minimum effort into marriage I can get away with until things improve between us”, her putting kids first-marriage last, her withdrawing into back room/garage for 23 hrs/day to smoke (she didn't smoke in the house, but set up a little smoking area in the garage, with a heater, table, chair, 'fridge, outlets for cell and laptop until she got pissed at me one day two years ago and moved into a bedroom in the back of the house. She stays there literally all day, except for bathroom, food, or when she goes out. She claims not to be depressed...”I've been depressed and know what it's like. I'm not depressed, and can't wait to get out of this room”).... put a serious strain on our marriage. Recent money troubles haven't helped. I'm not blaming her, just giving background.
I don't mean to imply that it's her fault. It's not. I admit, there were times during her depression that I was not as supportive as she needed me to be, but I was absolutely as supportive as I could possibly be. There are times I was not as respectful as I could have been. She also feels I have been controlling, and to a certain extent, I have. I have tried to validate how she feels. I realize I've given her what I want, not necessarily what she wants, thinking it was the same thing.
I know “time is my friend.” I've tried a lot of the techniques in DB and DR. I don't pursue anymore, no more gifts, I'm getting a life, I've done the 180 in every way I can think would be helpful. We get along fairly well, even go out together with friends, don't really fight or argue, but she doesn't want to stay and work on our marriage. We talk, but mostly just about the logistics of running the house, and who's going to drive the kids around. As I said during counseling, "it's hard to hold a conversation through the garage door."
Like I said, she's moving out imminently. Her house needed work, and is almost ready. The court's support decision was vacated because she didn't move out soon enough, and in the last 6 months my pay has gone down, through no fault of mine (company decision) so she isn't going to get as much support as she thinks.
Money is getting very tight. I have not picked up overtime in 20 years. She's pushing me to do so. I'm not inclined to, because if I do, my support obligation will increase. I don't want to HAVE to work overtime forever just to pay her support, just because money's tight today. After the support conference determines how much I have to pay, I will probably work some overtime to pay my bills.
I am trying to get a life. I'm going to the gym, getting together with friends I haven't seen in a while, going for long walks, visiting family more, busy with taking care of things around the house rather than putting them off, and I've always been very involved in the kids. She has suggested and encouraged me to date. Is dating part of getting a life or should it be avoided at all costs? I haven't seen that addressed here. I have been out with a few women, and enjoyed myself, but feel guilty for feeling like I'm cheating on my wife, and knowing these women are looking for a relationship, and I know I would avoid one, so I feel like I'm wasting their time.
I guess my last question is.... How long do you implement these techniques and pine away for your wife until you are a chump and a doormat?
thanks in advance.
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I guess my last question is.... How long do you implement these techniques and pine away for your wife until you are a chump and a doormat?
Jim,
The real objective is to stop pining and start living. In other words, work on yourself and let your wife go on her journey. It's a lot easier said than done.
Sorry you find yourself in this mess. You have some to a great place!
As you said, time is your friend. And, unfortunately, also your enemy. You seem to have a grasp on things and doing better than most newcomers. It's not easy, but you got this.
Quote:
She has suggested and encouraged me to date. Is dating part of getting a life or should it be avoided at all costs? I haven't seen that addressed here. I have been out with a few women, and enjoyed myself, but feel guilty for feeling like I'm cheating on my wife, and knowing these women are looking for a relationship, and I know I would avoid one, so I feel like I'm wasting their time
Just because she suggested means you don't have to IF you don't want, to. Her suggesting you do that expresses guilt and that she is trying to get you to move on. Sorry if that is blunt. Now, do you have to? No. Some will say don't. Some will say do. Listen only to yourself. I subscribe to the "do" crowd. Even if its just coffee, it can work wonders on a soul that has been beat to hell and back. I get the part about feeling guilty and like I was cheating - felt the same way at first...then I realized she wasn't coming back and at some point I have to live my own life...with or without her.
Quote:
I guess my last question is.... How long do you implement these techniques and pine away for your wife until you are a chump and a doormat?
That's a question that only YOU can answer.
There are moments in this life when you are so confident in the rightness of your actions, that not even for a second do you consider the option that you might be wrong.
I am trying not to argue, but I could use a little advice. She is moving out this weekend, and keeps bringing up support. My pay has decreased, and she's not going to get as much support as she thinks she will. How do I validate her point of view, and still say "No way."
Also, she had her paycheck deposited into a separate account from our joint account from which we pay the household bills, in anticipation of moving out and needing her own money. How do I get her to contribute to what is still our joint household without causing a huge fight about money?
One more thing.... we're due a substantial tax refund. She contributed about 5% of our tax bill, and I paid the rest. I know she's going to want 50% of our refund, which will give her 10 times more than she paid in taxes. How do I avoid this minefield? What have others in our situation done?
thanks
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka that I totally agree with.
Originally Posted By: Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
She is moving out this weekend, and keeps bringing up support. My pay has decreased, and she's not going to get as much support as she thinks she will. How do I validate her point of view, and still say "No way."
Don't worry about validating anymore as that's not what is important. Just tell her straight up the situation, and that if she wants to go that route, then the lawyers will figure it out.
Quote:
Also, she had her paycheck deposited into a separate account from our joint account from which we pay the household bills, in anticipation of moving out and needing her own money. How do I get her to contribute to what is still our joint household without causing a huge fight about money?
Let's see. You are still married and that money is considered marital property. I'd talk to your lawyer, but I'd be willing to bet that you will be told the same. A huge fight? Not important. What is important, is your well-being and responsibility. It seems like she is after more than her fair share. Don't discuss anything other than "we will have our lawyers look at it." At this point, that's what is necessary.
Quote:
One more thing.... we're due a substantial tax refund. She contributed about 5% of our tax bill, and I paid the rest. I know she's going to want 50% of our refund, which will give her 10 times more than she paid in taxes. How do I avoid this minefield? What have others in our situation done?
You can't. See marital property above. She will get half.
There are moments in this life when you are so confident in the rightness of your actions, that not even for a second do you consider the option that you might be wrong.
Also, she had her paycheck deposited into a separate account from our joint account from which we pay the household bills, in anticipation of moving out and needing her own money. How do I get her to contribute to what is still our joint household without causing a huge fight about money?
One more thing.... we're due a substantial tax refund. She contributed about 5% of our tax bill, and I paid the rest. I know she's going to want 50% of our refund, which will give her 10 times more than she paid in taxes. How do I avoid this minefield? What have others in our situation done?
thanks
Jim,
The way you handle your financial stuff is to open your own checking account now and put everything you can into that account including the check for the tax return. Currently, you're separating, not divorcing. You may have to pay some child support while separated. Make sure the money is in a safe place and go see a lawyer. After talking with the lawyer, you can decide how to divvy-up the money.
Let's see. You are still married and that money is considered marital property. I'd talk to your lawyer, but I'd be willing to bet that you will be told the same. A huge fight? Not important. What is important, is your well-being and responsibility. It seems like she is after more than her fair share. Don't discuss anything other than "we will have our lawyers look at it." At this point, that's what is necessary.
Quote:
One more thing.... we're due a substantial tax refund. She contributed about 5% of our tax bill, and I paid the rest. I know she's going to want 50% of our refund, which will give her 10 times more than she paid in taxes. How do I avoid this minefield? What have others in our situation done?
You can't. See marital property above. She will get half.
technically, we are legally separated; does that make a difference?
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
I guess my last question is.... How long do you implement these techniques and pine away for your wife until you are a chump and a doormat?
Jim,
The real objective is to stop pining and start living. In other words, work on yourself and let your wife go on her journey. It's a lot easier said than done.
Jim,
Sorry you're here, but this is good stuff from Doodler. Pining gets you nowhere and definitely makes you unattractive to your W.
Also, all of this is so much easier said than done. You'll go through stages, phases, ups and downs, but this place is a good place to vent, seek advice and even pine.
We're all in different sitch's but all here for you.
Trying
Me 42, Wife 39; Married 16; Together 17; Kids: D13, S10 Wife asks for Divorce: 03/19/13 Reconcile: 07/07/13 Round 2 Starts: 02/19/17 Apartment Life: 04/21/17 PA Confirmed: 05/23/17
I'm hoping to get some group input on something that happened yesterday....
For those who haven't read the whole thread, my wife's moving out imminently.
I have been doing a 180 by disengaging. We have a large open floor plan, where the kitchen, family room, dining area, are all one big open space. I spend a lot of time hanging out there, eating, reading, watching TV, playing on my laptop, etc. She has complained that I'm always there, and even when I'm not, she says my personality so dominates the space, that it's like I'm there even when I'm not. So I disappeared. Spending a lot of time out of the house at the gym, going out with friends or walking the neighborhood, and a lot of time in our master bedroom suite. Also, usually, I would stick my head into my wife's room and say "Hi", or "good morning", let her know if I'm going out, where, when, etc, or inviting her out when I arrange to meet our friends. No more. I leave without telling her I'm going, don't invite her to join us, don't seek her out to talk, and end the conversation first by leaving, but I'm pleasant when we talk. This has been going on for little more than a week.
Yesterday, I just got in the car to leave for the gym, and she came out of her room into the garage and crossly asked "what's the matter with you? You can't even tell me you're leaving? Why are you so angry at everyone?" I suggested we go inside and talk. I calmly explained that I've had a lot of time to think, and realized I've been a lousy listener. I've realized that I tried to give her what I wanted in our marriage, which was more time together, more physical affection, and less space, instead of what she was telling me she wanted, which was more space, less physical affection.
I told her I finally heard a lot of what she was telling me, and I was trying to give it to her. She replied that she was still leaving, and then the conversation just ended.
I'm not sure what to think, but I keep thinking I should not have put it in terms of "hey, I finally understand what you were asking for", but "hey, I'm doing these things for me."
Thoughts?
Thanks
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
I'm not sure what to think, but I keep thinking I should not have put it in terms of "hey, I finally understand what you were asking for", but "hey, I'm doing these things for me."
Doesn't matter one way or another. It is what it is. She is on her own road, and her road only has room for her. That's all.
So, for you, the best thing to do is not worry about her and what she thinks and all, because its irrelevant. Take care of yourself.
Remember the butterfly???????????????
There are moments in this life when you are so confident in the rightness of your actions, that not even for a second do you consider the option that you might be wrong.
I saw someone else post this, but it looks like you are doing the 180s for her and not for you and that you are looking over your shoulder to see if she is noticing. You have to stop that. It takes time. While it seems better if they stay, you can't force her to do so. All you can do is to work on you and detaching and not allowing your every thought to be dominated by her actions.
That said, sounds like you have a good idea of what to do and need to keep doing, but more. I think that while validating is necessary, you don't want to over-apologize and take all the blame. You can validate without doing that.
I saw someone else post this, but it looks like you are doing the 180s for her and not for you and that you are looking over your shoulder to see if she is noticing. You have to stop that. It takes time. While it seems better if they stay, you can't force her to do so. All you can do is to work on you and detaching and not allowing your every thought to be dominated by her actions.
That said, sounds like you have a good idea of what to do and need to keep doing, but more. I think that while validating is necessary, you don't want to over-apologize and take all the blame. You can validate without doing that.
You are partially right about doing the 180 for her. The working out, distancing, and GAL I'm doing for me, but I am hoping she notices, and changes her mind. I appreciate the tip about over apologizing. That's the kind of insight I'm asking for.
And Jeep74, I appreciate your insight as well, but I can't remember what the butterfly is about
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
Just curious, but you keep mentioning giving her support, and at the same time talk about her putting her paycheck in a separate account. Is this child support, or spousal support you're talking about? If it's spousal support, why?
Just curious, but you keep mentioning giving her support, and at the same time talk about her putting her paycheck in a separate account. Is this child support, or spousal support you're talking about? If it's spousal support, why?
Beyond paying the lion's share of our bills, I am not yet giving her any financial support, but I found out I was incorrect when I said her pay is going into a different account (she actually didn't receive a paycheck last week, which is what confused me).
The decision in the original support conference was vacated because she had 60 days to move out and didn't. She's going to have to drag me back there to get a new ruling on child and spousal support for when she moves out. Since the first conference, my pay's gone down about 20%, through no fault of mine, so she's not going to get as much as in the first conference.
Does that clear it up?
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
And Jeep74, I appreciate your insight as well, but I can't remember what the butterfly is about
Very simple yet very, very hard.
What happens if you squeeze a butterfly in your hand? It kills it, right? Think of your marriage/relationship/wife as the butterfly. If you squeeze it to hard to keep it from flying away, it will kill it - just like the butterfly. The best thing you can do is open your hand and let the butterfly fly away. Yep, let it go. You can provide a safe space for it to return if, and that's a big IF, it decides to return. Most likely it won't. But if it did and your opened hand isn't safe, it won't alight. Period. And to make your hand a safe place, that means work on you.
In other words, let your wife go. No easy way to say it. Leave her alone. Everything. She may/may not come back...but that's not up to you. The marriage is dead and gone - however, the possibility (DO NOT construe this as FALSE HOPE which is so readily spread here) of a completely new one does exist if conditions are right. Just live as if she doesn't exist.
There are moments in this life when you are so confident in the rightness of your actions, that not even for a second do you consider the option that you might be wrong.
In other words, let your wife go. No easy way to say it. Leave her alone. Everything. She may/may not come back...but that's not up to you. The marriage is dead and gone - however, the possibility (DO NOT construe this as FALSE HOPE which is so readily spread here) of a completely new one does exist if conditions are right. Just live as if she doesn't exist.
Thanks, I needed that.
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
I am in the process of separating our bank accounts, and my paycheck has gone into my new account, so my wife has walking around money, but no access to the two thousand that she needs to pay the contractor fixing up her new house. This afternoon she was talking like she needs money to pay the contractor. My first thought is to tell her no f%#@ing way, but I'm asking the cooler heads on the board for input....
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
IMy first thought is to tell her no f%#@ing way, but I'm asking the cooler heads on the board for input....
Jim,
I'm a no f%#@ing way kind of guy. So yep, that's what I'd do. But, you ultimately have to decide that for yourself based on your circumstances.
That was my 180 of sorts; I went from being an easy going, laid-back husband to being tough as nails. I really needed that for myself. I'd set a boundary, and if she tried stepping over it, I'd just raise it higher. I needed to show her that I could match her and raise the stakes. But, that doesn't mean that it's the right approach in your situation. [Subliminal message: She's been playing you; it's time to put a stop to that.]
[quote][Subliminal message: She's been playing you; it's time to put a stop to that.] [/quote]
Yep.
There are moments in this life when you are so confident in the rightness of your actions, that not even for a second do you consider the option that you might be wrong.
How did showing tough love work out for you guys? Did it bust your divorces or just help you get on with your lives?
Jim,
Yes, I think tough love has worked well for me in my situation. But, it was as much for me as it was to try to save the marriage (I'm now divorced). For many years I'd allowed my wife to rule the roost. I wasn't a complete pushover, but I never wanted to raise the ire of my wife knowing that she could make life miserable if she wanted to.
Like many of the spouses who come to this forum, I allowed fear to reign. I think losing the fear is the key more so than tough love. Once you truly lose fear, it's much easier to navigate and do what's best for yourself and your family.
Couldn't agree more. Fear of rocking the boat, mountains out of molehills, etc. just end up making you weak and weak ends up making one not all that attractive. You think you're doing good by not stirring up stuff, but in the end its way way worse than you could imagine.
One thing I've learned recently is trying to letting go of all attachment to outcome. When you think of outcome first, you're not doing for you, but others. I'm not saying to ignore others, but thinking of outcome makes you more walk on eggshells than just being.
Of course, this is all in my head and haven't really put into production, but we're warming it up buttercup!!!
Best of luck Jim.
Me 42, Wife 39; Married 16; Together 17; Kids: D13, S10 Wife asks for Divorce: 03/19/13 Reconcile: 07/07/13 Round 2 Starts: 02/19/17 Apartment Life: 04/21/17 PA Confirmed: 05/23/17
I agree with the others, Jim. Giving or not giving her $2 grand to help her leave you won't make her love you or not. It won't save or break your marriage. Do what you feel is "the next right thing". Personally I would not spend 2 grand to fund something that benefits only her and promotes her new "freedom" from you. But that's your call. If you only act based on what you think it will do to save your marriage, it's not going to help you grow stronger as a person who is prepared for either ending. Make decisions that will make you a stronger, better man, with no thoughts of how they affect W. You are on this road alone right now. She's on a different road in her own car. She should have planned how she was going to pay for her own gas, oil changes, etc.. before she bought the car. Hang in there and keep posting. This is a great place to air out your thoughts and get perspective. We are here for you.
M-60 H-51 M-14 years BD 12/26/16 S 1/1/17
"First the pain, then the rising." Glennon Doyle Melton
How did showing tough love work out for you guys? Did it bust your divorces or just help you get on with your lives?
Bust our divorces? Not at all. Maybe helped get on with my life. It's been a month now and I haven't been this good or happy in a long time.
She made her road. She decided to cheat, and once someone has done that and proven untrustable, then divorce isn't a problem. Not at all.
There are moments in this life when you are so confident in the rightness of your actions, that not even for a second do you consider the option that you might be wrong.
So Friday, we attended our daughter's poetry reading. We had different things to do before and after (GAL) so we didn't go together, but enjoyed ourselves there.
Saturday, my plans fell thru, so I met mutual friends (a couple) downtown for drinks and dinner. They had invited others to come, but only one showed up, an attractive single woman, so it kind of seemed like a double date. Anyway, later, my wife, who was also invited, showed up, had some drinks with us, and drove us all home. Very pleasant evening, no drama.
The only thing weird was that when she was outside the bar smoking, she asked my friend whether she was a fifth wheel on a double date, and he said "no".
I don't know what it means; it probably doesn't mean anything.
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
Went out for beers with a friend on Friday. He offered the opinion that she may be so slow to move out because she realizes she's made a mistake, but can't figure out how to back out of it without looking foolish or losing face.
Had a good Easter weekend. W was on a trip overseas for a few days, so she wasn't in the picture. Took my kids to my parents' for Easter weekend, had a good time with the family. My birthday was Saturday, and she sent me a text wishing me happy birthday.
She came home Sunday. As dinner was breaking up, my kids were going with their cousins to a movie, and W called my son. She asked him to ask me to call her. I did a few hours later. Had a nice conversation. She asked about dinner and the family, how was the weekend, etc. I was cordial and forthcoming, but I didn't ask about her trip, and was the first to say "time to go".
Still trying......
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
Yesterday she said she "wanted to talk". I'm agreeable, but she seems angry, and she starts off by saying she's moving out this weekend. Fine. I haven't said or done anything at this point to upset her, and our last chat over the phone on Sunday went well, but she seems angry with me.
She says we're overdrawn on our checking account and it's my fault because I now have my paycheck deposited into my own account while her whole paycheck is deposited into our account and she has bills to pay and needs some money (she made $400; I made $5000). She's getting angrier and angrier. I stay calm, don't argue, but validate like crazy, and remind her that I've kept her abreast of everything I've done. But at one point, I think to myself, "you're insisting on the divorce, you bought a house, you wanted the separation, how the heck did you think you were going to pay for all this? You're getting exactly what you wanted, and your inability to pay for it is not my problem." Unfortunately, a smile crept across my lips at this last thought, which really sent her into orbit. She just started with the "Oh, you think this is funny that I can't pay my bills!" bit when our son came home, and she said we'll talk about it later. I said "great!" and went to play golf with a friend.
Today, I put enough money into our account so it's not overdrawn. This afternoon I stuck my head in the room where she stays and smokes, saying I'm going to the hardware store, does she want anything? She's still angry.
(We cashed in a large number of shares so she could buy a house, with the understanding it was an early distribution of her marital share of our assets. There was about $30K left she was planning to use to furnish and do work on her house, but it's all spent now.)
I asked her why she seemed so angry with me, and she said it was because I still owed her $30K, and she has bills to pay and things she wants to buy. I said as far as I was concerned, that money was already spent on her house, and it wasn't my job to keep track of it.
Any advice?
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
Just wanted to tell you that I've been very impressed by your take on different peoples' situations. I hope the agreement re the distribution was run through an attorney and documented.
I feel you on "it's what you want", but you seem to be handling it really, really well. I struggle with the validating more than I should because of this.
For your sitch and money, it seems like you're doing a good job protecting yourself. Seems like she wants to walk all over you on money and you're doing what is necessary.
I wish you luck navigating.
Me 42, Wife 39; Married 16; Together 17; Kids: D13, S10 Wife asks for Divorce: 03/19/13 Reconcile: 07/07/13 Round 2 Starts: 02/19/17 Apartment Life: 04/21/17 PA Confirmed: 05/23/17
I appreciate your compliment, but I don't FEEL like I'm handling it well. I FEEL like my heart was ripped out of my chest and stomped on. I don't even care too much about the money. All I'm really doing is acting "as if".... as if I'll be ok.... as if I'm not upset every time I realize she's about to move out.... as if I am getting a life.... as if I'm trying to protect myself financially..... and hoping someday it becomes real.
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
Totally understand. It takes convincing many days that I'm doing fine. What's my alternative though? Think about that.
I can cower under a rock, let the pain consume me and how attractive does that look? Pretty terrible, right? My W like the look of that? Probably not. My kids want to hang out with Dad who is suffering or Dad who is rising up? I think we know that answer.
I'm with you on the money. It [censored] if I end up splitting that, but it's just money. Don't get me wrong I need to protect my interests and then it's just calculating the split.
None of this makes it easier, but when you take it one day at a time, sometimes one hour at a time, it can be easier.
I'm not trying to discount the painful heart ripping, fear you're feeling, loss, etc. The ball is in your hands on how you handle it. One phrase I've learned in this is "accept the feelings; challenge the thoughts". Your feelings are going to be there, but what you think/chose to do next is under your control.
All the best Jim.
Me 42, Wife 39; Married 16; Together 17; Kids: D13, S10 Wife asks for Divorce: 03/19/13 Reconcile: 07/07/13 Round 2 Starts: 02/19/17 Apartment Life: 04/21/17 PA Confirmed: 05/23/17
Thanks. I'm too close to my own situation to see clearly, though.
The agreement was run through the lawyers and documented, but now I suspect it probably could have been documented better. I think it will stand up.
Hello Jim1234,
I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.
You are so smart to recognize that you are too close to your situation to see things clearly.
Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator The Divorce Busting Center 303-444-7004
A Divorce Busting Coach can help you save your marriage, even when your spouse wants out.
Email virginia@divorcebusting.com or 303-444-7004 for more information or to get started right away.
I've come to learn that educating myself and utilizing forums such as this helps distract your mind during the toughest days. So too does knowing you're not alone , Your story is not too dissimilar to mine as i suspect in time my separated wife will come to realize her financial reality
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
it sounds as though you may have the same question i have. I've heard repeatedly, if something doesn't work, try something else. Yet when you are too close to see what may work its difficult to fathom what something new may mean. Any suggestions on different approaches? or variations thereof?
If i knew how to start a post of my own i'd do so with further description to evoke brainstorming and sharing of best practices and variances on what worked and what didn't, although i recognize specific circumstances may apply
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
I agree, you're handling it really well. You said earlier you thought I was doing a better job at GAL, but it doesn't FEEL like it. So I know how you feel.
Btw Sjs777, PMs are disabled here. It's a little frustrating, but it's their place and their rules, so I get it.
M-32 W-32 (both military) T-8 M-6 PA Oct/Nov 16 (happened twice) Discovered PA 11/30/16 S 12/1/16 MC 12/1/16 - 1/18/17 BD 1/18/17 A continues? 1/24/17 texts resume with W & OM W Filed 3/8/17 W Deploys 7/17
I'm not sure any one of us has the answer, but only suggestions or a potentially different perspective. I sometimes feel the one unspoken and undefined variable is time and timing. Its very tough to tell when or if time may change things.
The one thing i keep in the back of my mind is that in time i hope to look back and say i did all i could and came through the other side a better man, with or without her
I will also say that, although I don't know you, I am here should you just need to vent. You can never have too many means of support through this all
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
what i meant to say is i didn't know how, if at all to start a new public post
How to start a thread
I will use what Job wrote
First Click on Newcomers then:
Originally Posted By: job
Go to the top of the screen and there is a new topic box on the left hand side. Click on it and then you will open the window to create a new subject as well as a posting. It's the same way that you created this thread.
She is moving out tomorrow. I asked to talk to her for a minute. We needed to talk about money, but then, thinking it would be easier if she was still in the house, I said if she had any interest left in saving our marriage, I had an idea (basically using DB's idea of explicitly stating what we wanted from the other to build some good will, and then building on that) that might help, but would still be workable if she moved out. I didn't mention the specifics.
The conversation went basically no where. The eternal optimist in me says maybe I planted an idea that will bear fruit, but the practical side of me says I screwed up.
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
I am trying not to argue, but I could use a little advice. She is moving out this weekend, and keeps bringing up support. My pay has decreased, and she's not going to get as much support as she thinks she will. How do I validate her point of view, and still say "No way."
Also, she had her paycheck deposited into a separate account from our joint account from which we pay the household bills, in anticipation of moving out and needing her own money. How do I get her to contribute to what is still our joint household without causing a huge fight about money?
One more thing.... we're due a substantial tax refund. She contributed about 5% of our tax bill, and I paid the rest. I know she's going to want 50% of our refund, which will give her 10 times more than she paid in taxes. How do I avoid this minefield? What have others in our situation done?
thanks
Not sure what state/jurisdiction you are in, or where this^^ issue stands at the moment.
But a lot of these types of issues will continue. My suggestion is to go whatever the law says, and not try to make new "JIM" law. And don't let your w act as if you fought something to the Supreme Court...there's usually a formula and that's that.
In other words, the court can see reality better than your w, and I'd just let the cards fall there they fall. (I assume you have a L, right? If not, get one. Do not con yourself into thinking having a L is "too expensive" when money or kids are issues).
And where are the kids going to want to spend time, at their home, or with the "not depressed, inactive chain smoker"?
Just curious.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Remember that one mistake will not make or break your sitch. Learn from it.
Honestly, I think W living elsewhere will be good for both of you. For starters, it will give you some much needed breathing room. Second, it will give her the opportunity to be alone with her thoughts and she just might start to miss you.
She is moving out tomorrow. I asked to talk to her for a minute. We needed to talk about money, but then, thinking it would be easier if she was still in the house, I said if she had any interest left in saving our marriage, I had an idea (basically using DB's idea of explicitly stating what we wanted from the other to build some good will, and then building on that) that might help, but would still be workable if she moved out. I didn't mention the specifics.
The conversation went basically no where. The eternal optimist in me says maybe I planted an idea that will bear fruit, but the practical side of me says I screwed up.
My guess, which is all that it is, is that your w lacks insight and is on a journey of her own making. The unresolved marital issues (you mentioned having troubles for some time)
and her own "inner stuff", seem to have taken a toll. Her choices have mixed themes in them, including some self destructive ones. Anyone with that much pain and that many surgeries who still smokes, is not placing a high value on their health.
I don't know what choice you have. So maybe you can embrace the fact that she is now released to her own journey and her own discoveries and so are you.
My guess is that she will not enjoy some of her discoveries, b/c the grass is greener where you water it most. She's clearly depressed but that's not your problem anymore. When someone chooses not to get help and isn't incompetent, it's like being married to an alcoholic who won't quit drinking AND wants out of the m.
IF there is a chance for a restored m, it won't be by you fighting this. It'll be by her own painful "task" and I would release her to this task. She clearly sees it as a mission she must achieve or...or...or whatever.
From what you say yourself, the marriage has not met your needs for some time as well.
Sometimes it's really hard to accept that part of our own journey is asking what we are fighting for.
Is it to "win", (and not feel rejected, protect our egos)
or to stay m to this particular spouse in this pattern of behavior.
I suspect you will discover the answer to this^^ after your w is out of the house and you are better able to GAL and Detach.
I don't know how to detach without GAL, so I think your progress there is great.
As for dating OWs
I would not while she's in the home no matter what SHE says. Your kids are there, for one thing and it's weird, for another.
She's leaving soon enough...then do as your heart says. You are right to consider the women you'd date too. Just be honest about what you can really give. Most therapists urge newly single people to NOT marry the first person you date, b/c it's reactive.
But that is down the road...for now, GAL and be there for your kids b/c they need to see you model a healthy lifestyle, even in the face of heartbreak.
They will face heartbreak too, and you will be the anchor, their rock. You will be the counter point to someone who is evidently surrendering to a downward coast to the end...
They are watching you more than you know. I'm so glad you are their dad.
((( )))
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
don't get bogged down in one conversation or gesture. There are no "Right words said in the correct order" that will change your w.
You cannot solve her puzzle. Leave her to it.
And be respectful, kind and strong for your kids and yourself. So, IF IF IF your wife snaps out of her long long funk, AND IF she gets help
then you can post here and we'll all chime in to help.
I would accept that she is leaving soon. Doesn't mean you'll never see her again or ever feel loved again or that she won't want to return,
but the chances of that^^ are more likely if you just let her go,
and the chances of you being happy are higher if you GAL, Detach and heal.
Don't obsess about all the possible outcomes...you have no control over her own journey.
Just your own. I think you are making more progress than you realize.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
don't get bogged down in one conversation or gesture. There are no "Right words said in the correct order" that will change your w.
You cannot solve her puzzle. Leave her to it.
Jim - This is extremely important. Think of the Serenity Prayer and the wisdom to know what you can and cannot control. Detaching from this can really free you and the work you have to do on yourself.
Like Doodler said too, just learn from your mistakes on right/wrong words. They're just words and remember it took a while to get in your sitch and you're not going to get out of it or make it worse with a slip of a few words.
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
I think you are making more progress than you realize.
I agree with 25 here. This is a marathon and not a sprint and awareness is key. You've identified many things that we all naturally have gone through in this process.
Hope you have a great weekend.
Me 42, Wife 39; Married 16; Together 17; Kids: D13, S10 Wife asks for Divorce: 03/19/13 Reconcile: 07/07/13 Round 2 Starts: 02/19/17 Apartment Life: 04/21/17 PA Confirmed: 05/23/17
Not sure what state/jurisdiction you are in, or where this^^ issue stands at the moment.
But a lot of these types of issues will continue. My suggestion is to go whatever the law says, and not try to make new "JIM" law. And don't let your w act as if you fought something to the Supreme Court...there's usually a formula and that's that.
In other words, the court can see reality better than your w, and I'd just let the cards fall there they fall. (I assume you have a L, right? If not, get one. Do not con yourself into thinking having a L is "too expensive" when money or kids are issues).
And where are the kids going to want to spend time, at their home, or with the "not depressed, inactive chain smoker"?
Just curious.
Thank you very much for your input and thoughts.
The tax refund I've decided I will use to pay off our credit card debt. It would have been nice to pocket the whole thing, but that's probably not legal.
I do have a lawyer. Wouldn't think of doing this without one, bloodsuckers though they are.
Frankly, though, they'll probably spend time at her house, 'cause I actually have rules in this one, and there, they will be able to do pretty much whatever they want.
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
Remember that one mistake will not make or break your sitch. Learn from it.
Honestly, I think W living elsewhere will be good for both of you. For starters, it will give you some much needed breathing room. Second, it will give her the opportunity to be alone with her thoughts and she just might start to miss you.
Amen. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, and keeping my spirits up.
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
[quote=Jim1234][/color] My guess, which is all that it is, is that your w lacks insight and is on a journey of her own making. The unresolved marital issues (you mentioned having troubles for some time)
and her own "inner stuff", seem to have taken a toll. Her choices have mixed themes in them, including some self destructive ones. Anyone with that much pain and that many surgeries who still smokes, is not placing a high value on their health.
I don't know what choice you have. So maybe you can embrace the fact that she is now released to her own journey and her own discoveries and so are you.
My guess is that she will not enjoy some of her discoveries, b/c the grass is greener where you water it most. She's clearly depressed but that's not your problem anymore. When someone chooses not to get help and isn't incompetent, it's like being married to an alcoholic who won't quit drinking AND wants out of the m.
IF there is a chance for a restored m, it won't be by you fighting this. It'll be by her own painful "task" and I would release her to this task. She clearly sees it as a mission she must achieve or...or...or whatever.
[color:#000099]Thank you for reminding me of all this. I need to keep remembering it.
From what you say yourself, the marriage has not met your needs for some time as well.
Sometimes it's really hard to accept that part of our own journey is asking what we are fighting for.
Is it to "win", (and not feel rejected, protect our egos)
or to stay m to this particular spouse in this pattern of behavior.
I suspect you will discover the answer to this^^ after your w is out of the house and you are better able to GAL and Detach.
I don't know how to detach without GAL, so I think your progress there is great.
As for dating OWs
I would not while she's in the home no matter what SHE says. Your kids are there, for one thing and it's weird, for another.
She's leaving soon enough...then do as your heart says. You are right to consider the women you'd date too. Just be honest about what you can really give. Most therapists urge newly single people to NOT marry the first person you date, b/c it's reactive.
That's good advice. Thank you.
But that is down the road...for now, GAL and be there for your kids b/c they need to see you model a healthy lifestyle, even in the face of heartbreak.
They will face heartbreak too, and you will be the anchor, their rock. You will be the counter point to someone who is evidently surrendering to a downward coast to the end...
They are watching you more than you know. I'm so glad you are their dad. Thank you for that. That means a lot to me.
((( )))
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
I had to go to Denver for work this weekend. She said she would move out while I was gone. Bittersweet. Sorry to see her go, but happy to be moving out of limbo. Real rollercoaster. Friday I was upset, Saturday feeling a little better, Sat night upset again, but felt better as Sunday progressed, and I was even somewhat optimistic as I drove home from the airport.
I stopped by the grocery store on the way home and picked up two pints of ice cream and chocolate bars. I was going to allow myself to wallow in my misery and mourn until going to play golf this afternoon, then pick myself up and get on with my life tomorrow. I drive down the street about 8 pm. and there's a Uhaul in front of my house. "OK, she must be just finishing up", I thought. I walk inside and the house is a mess of half packed stuff, but some large furniture is gone. I poke my head into her room and just say I'm home. She says she's "so exhausted." Spent some time with my kids, went to bed.
After having prepared myself to come home to an empty, lonely house, I'm upset that she's still here, and will either pack up in front of me, or leave the house a mess until I go away again next weekend. There is a long list of things I had planned to do to the house after she left that now has to wait another week. I'm still hurt, angry, disappointed, sad....
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
its stories such as yours that remind me I'm not alone, and as dire as my situation may be i find comfort in an alliance of DB troopers. Ive come so far, yet still on my journey. I only hope you find similar comfort in the same
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
for me the greatest challenge at times is to realize all the change i have experienced and learned, yet becoming distant and almost passive with no significant tangible gains in our relationship challenges my perception of my efforts on occasion, and yes i understand it assists me in being the best me, but that would have been true many months ago as well.
I also find that in applying all that I learned I feel I've reached an impasse, almost a though i should be trying something new
BD Oct 2016 Me 47, W 43 together 25 years S 25, D 22
I stopped by the grocery store on the way home and picked up two pints of ice cream and chocolate bars. I was going to allow myself to wallow in my misery and mourn until going to play golf this afternoon, then pick myself up and get on with my life tomorrow. I drive down the street about 8 pm. and there's a Uhaul in front of my house. "OK, she must be just finishing up", I thought. I walk inside and the house is a mess of half packed stuff, but some large furniture is gone. I poke my head into her room and just say I'm home. She says she's "so exhausted." Spent some time with my kids, went to bed.
Hello Jim1234,
I hope she isn't expecting you to help her pack or move.
Putting the tax return towards the mutually accrued credit card debt sounds very responsible.
What are you telling the kids? Michele has written an excellent article and I am happy to send you the link for free, of course.
The best advice I can give you is to call a Divorce Busting Coach today. Many of your online friends will agree that Divorce Busting coaches will give you the best advice on how to save your marriage and keep your family together. Please call me to discuss our coaching program 303-444-7004
Cristy Resource Coordinator The Divorce Busting Center 303-444-7004
A Divorce Busting Coach can help you save your marriage, even when your spouse wants out.
Email virginia@divorcebusting.com or 303-444-7004 for more information or to get started right away.
Saw our marriage counselor by myself on Wed (W won't go to counseling any more). I was hoping for some insight on why, since she was so determined to move out and divorce, is it taking her so long to do so, when her house has been habitable for months? Counselor thinks she's ambivalent about the divorce, so I'll continue to DB and see what happens.
Yesterday, we were picking up a car from the mechanic, and she informs me that her mom is coming from England on Sunday or Monday (I knew for a long time she was coming, but not the dates. It's significant because I know she wants to be in the other house by the time her mom came.), and she has to start sleeping at the other house tonight because her lawyer needs a date to start asking for support. It wasn't completely unexpected, because she's been packing for the last few days. I asked if that meant all the stuff she left behind was mine so I could start getting rid stuff knowing she didn't want it, and she said she was sleeping over there, but wasn't finished moving out, and would let me know when she was.
Last night when she left, I was very cavalier, wishing her a good night's sleep. She hasn't been back yet, but she's coming over soon.
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
My best advice is for you is to be cool, calm and collected. When she leaves the house for the last time, you want her last memory of you to be a good one.
Well, I suspect that's not going to happen. She's back, packing, and she wants to talk about money and bills. She's really not going to like me saying "no, I'm not paying the bills you've accumulated to furnish your house." She thinks because all of her (small) pay went into our joint account and was used to pay a (small) portion of our bills, while I paid the rest from my new individual account, she's entitled to reimbursement.
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
Quick update.... came home from my trip, then went to DC to go to a baseball game with my brother. Had a text from her asking how was the trip, and when I was coming back up 'cause she's "still working on getting everything out and cleaning." Gave her a brief, friendly answer about the game, told her I was coming home tomorrow. Other than that, no interaction.....
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
Friday I came home from my trip to DC, joined some friends out for dinner and drinks. She knew about it, but didn't join us.
Saturday I switched billing information on our phones to reflect the new reality, which caused her a problem that evening. She texted me to talk about it. I was meeting someone, so I told her "can't talk, call you tomorrow." We had a civil conversation about it today.
She's left a bunch of crap here, and still hasn't finished moving out, so she came by this evening to get some mint jelly for dinner tonight, and invited me to join her and the kids. I wish I wasn't here when she showed up 'cause I have had a total couch potato day, and she walked in to me sprawled on the couch, still in pj's (kind of unusual for me). But she did her thing, I was pleasant, but never got off the couch, and told her I'd let her know about dinner.
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
I haven't changed the air filter in the HVAC since I found out about the A on the last day in November. I wondered why the house was so dusty. Dust everywhere! I changed it today. I think you're entitled to one day on the couch after a lot of traveling. If that's going to make or break things...
I was kind of waiting to see if some other plans developed, but they never did, so I hemmed and hawed, trying to decide if going would be a pleasant experience and help build a road to reconciliation, or would make me seem too available like I had no life of my own.
My MIL, with whom I am very close, is visiting from England, so, in the end, I decided that I wanted to see her, and I went for dinner. Pleasant dinner, no drama, but it was really, really, really hard sitting down to a family dinner with W, MIL, and kids, looking and acting like a family, when we're no longer a family.
I don't think I'll do it again.
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
Impossible question, I know, but how do you think your wife felt about the dinner? If you were in her shoes, what would you be thinking/feeling? Trust me, I know how impossible it is to read a woman's mind...just curious if you've explored these theoretical avenues of thought? I try to do it now and then and I think it helps me garner a little bit of additional perspective, either real or imagined, but it feels like a good exercise to do on occasion.
M-32 W-32 (both military) T-8 M-6 PA Oct/Nov 16 (happened twice) Discovered PA 11/30/16 S 12/1/16 MC 12/1/16 - 1/18/17 BD 1/18/17 A continues? 1/24/17 texts resume with W & OM W Filed 3/8/17 W Deploys 7/17
180man, I have no idea how she felt about dinner. Couldn't even begin to guess. I wish I knew.
I'm curious about two things... how do I go dark and not communicate when we have kids to discuss?
Also, our son is not doing as well as he should in school, so she grounded him until his grades improved. But the kids are with me this week, so I get to be the heavy. Part of me supports grounding him until his grades improve, part of me resents this being dumped on me. How do other couples with kids deal with this?
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
My situation is different because my H has no involvement in the day-to-day of the kids and sees and talks to them very little (except during touch and gos).
Is anyone addressing why your son is not doing well in school? Could it be that his parents are having marital problems and he feels like this is an area where he can exercise control or show you guys how hurt he is. I personally don't like the idea of grounding in this situation. Maybe he needs extra support. Is anyone sitting down with him while he does the work? Is he seeing a counselor? If not, maybe he should.
You can't go NC or dark with kids. You can go dim. Strictly business. Keep it to the kids, the house and the D when she brings it up. Don't kid yourself and use the kids as an excuse to contact her. I think I did this in the beginning. Mine could offer nothing during those times so I just stopped telling him entirely, even when it involves big things.
OwnIt, my son's doing much better. Got a number of huge assignments completed, and his stress level plummeted. He got some late homework assignments done, and is doing much better in school and emotionally.
For the collective consciousness... If you're trying to have no contact, and go dark, how do you all handle social situations to which your spouse is also invited? Do I go dark by not showing up? Do I go and let her see how unaffected I am? Do I quietly slip away if she joins the two or four people I'm talking to?
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
W is on a trip. Her mother is visiting, and in W's new house alone while I have the kids. We are very fond of each other. I let the kids stay and keep her company Thursday, and took her to lunch on Friday, and had her over for dinner Friday night. She didn't want to come over Saturday.
MIL doesn't think I put a whole lot of effort into our marriage. During W's disability, I was working my a$$ off nursing her, cleaning, child rearing, working, shopping, chauffering, cooking, laundering....... for years and years with no help. Didn't bother me; that's what I am supposed to do. (I had typed a long missive detailing my efforts, but deleted it as not important to the overall point) When W's health improved, she still didn't help very much. Eventually, about 3 years ago, I just quit doing it all. MIL had things going on her life and could only visit very infrequently, so she didn't see the years of effort, just the time when I got fed up and stopped doing everything, and began to do as little as W. So her impression is that I sat on my a$$ all day playing on the computer.
I'm not sure why, maybe I'm looking for validation outside myself or something, but I like and respect her and I would like her to have a high opinion of me. I suggested, if she has the opportunity, to talk to some of our friends, and see if they share her impression (they won't).
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
Totally understand the need for validation from your MIL. She probably does internally but has a hard time not fully supporting her daughter. Like she does not want you to be a good thing your W is leaving.
You know the truth and you must rely upon that. If she had a better or worse opinion of you, what does that matter in the end? People think what they want and the only thing you can do is worry about how you react to it. Let it drag you down or brush it off.
It's only important on how you can rest your head on your pillow every night. Who is Jim and how does he live his life?
From what I've seen on here, Jim's a great father, husband and man who wants to do right for his family. Just my 2 cents.
All the best.
Me 42, Wife 39; Married 16; Together 17; Kids: D13, S10 Wife asks for Divorce: 03/19/13 Reconcile: 07/07/13 Round 2 Starts: 02/19/17 Apartment Life: 04/21/17 PA Confirmed: 05/23/17
So I've been trying to detach, GAL, NC, move on... having a hard time detaching, though.
A friend mentioned though how she seems to turn to me for emotional sustenance, ie, she calls me every few days not just to talk about the kids, but to just talk and vent, and my friend is not sure how healthy that is for me, and I get that. How do I detach when she keeps calling? Or do I take her calling as a good thing and not stress over it? How can I move on emotionally, and still leave the door open for her?
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
I have not read your entire thread, however I wanted to say I'm sorry you find yourself here. There are wonderful people here and it's a good place to be in a bad situation.
In regards to your MIL, it's understandable that you're seeking validation from someone. However, please remember this-and this is incredibly difficult for many people to digest. People think what they think. All you can do is be the best you can be. It's pointless to try to convince or cajole people into believing x. Focus on being the best person you can and authentic to yourself. And that is what people will see. How they interpret that is up to them.
Hang in there!
3 kids BD 12/15/13 (IDKIILY. ) Rope dropped Cirque du Soleil style D final 9-9-14 "Some people are born on 3rd base and go through life thinking they hit a triple." Barry Switzer
Journaling, but comments and thoughts are welcome.....
I just got home from a graduation party for a friend's kid. My STBXW was there with our kids. Didn't talk to her, not because I was avoiding her, but just because we didn't bump into each other while mingling. Got tired, said goodbye to the hosts, some friends, and said goodbye to the group she was chatting with. As I was leaving, she said very pointedly "Hey, Goodbye!" like she was miffed I didn't specifically say goodbye to her. I said, "what? I just said goodbye to everyone..." I gave her a second to reply; she didn't say anything I turned around and left.
I realized, though, that I hadn't said goodbye to S and D, so I walked back thru the party said goodbye to D, couldn't find S, so passing STBXW, asked her to say goodbye for me and I left.
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
For the collective consciousness... If you're trying to have no contact, and go dark, how do you all handle social situations to which your spouse is also invited? Do I go dark by not showing up? Do I go and let her see how unaffected I am? Do I quietly slip away if she joins the two or four people I'm talking to?
I think you show up if you want to show up, but not because of an obligation for her or your MR but because of your own personal preference. I don't think you need to be rude or go out of your way to avoid her, because that's not true detachment if you're basing your actions off of her. Instead, enjoy yourself-that can be a positive attractive force.
Originally Posted By: Jim1234
So I've been trying to detach, GAL, NC, move on... having a hard time detaching, though.
A friend mentioned though how she seems to turn to me for emotional sustenance, ie, she calls me every few days not just to talk about the kids, but to just talk and vent, and my friend is not sure how healthy that is for me, and I get that. How do I detach when she keeps calling? Or do I take her calling as a good thing and not stress over it? How can I move on emotionally, and still leave the door open for her?
You could respond to some calls, but don't feel the need to drop everything to pick up the phone. I think it's ok to talk for a while, but be the first to end the call. I'm no expert but I don't think it's a bad thing that she calls. But you want to set boundaries you are comfortable with. That's me balancing act is hard-detach for yourself but keep the path of return home smooth.
journaling, but comments/suggestions are welcome....
We've had some nice conversations. She dropped off something my daughter needed and stayed to chat for about an hour. Another time we talked about money, usually contentious, but we both kept it pleasant.
Yesterday I mentioned I was inviting some mutual friends up to the community pool for pizza and beer in the evening. She said she had planned to text the same friends to meet at a local pub, but the pool thing sounded fun. I invited her along, and decided to make a party of it and invited three more couples. Had a really nice time, and when the pool closed, invited everyone back to my house to sit by the fire pit in my backyard. Very nice night, no drama, but with 10 people here, there wasn't any real interaction between us either, which was fine with me.
On a side note, went on a date on Friday. Pleasant evening, and we both agreed we're interested in just dating casually.
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
On a side note, went on a date on Friday. Pleasant evening, and we both agreed we're interested in just dating casually.
It's very common for LBS's to jump into a new R way too soon. I started about a year after S and looking back that was too soon, I probably should have waited at least another year. It's only been 2 months since your W moved out. I know you just want to get rid of the hurt and move on, but I can't imagine you're ready for another R this soon!
I can't imagine you're ready for another R this soon!
I appreciate your input, and I think about it a lot. I agree wholeheartedly. I'm not ready for a relationship this soon. But I think I'm ready for casual dating.... maybe once a month having a companion for dinner, or someone with whom to go to a movie, or attend a ball game... and frankly, I wouldn't mind a little physical intimacy. That doesn't necessarily mean sex, but I wouldn't mind if it happened. I wouldn't be surprised if I realize you're right, and stop dating again.
I made that very clear to Friday's date, and basically, that's all she's looking for as well.
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
My niece is getting married this weekend. I took the kid's to my parents' for a visit this week before the wedding. My W's been very close to my family, but she asked weeks ago if it would be alright for her to go to the wedding, and I said "no".
As we were leaving on Tuesday, she called my cell and said that she was very hurt that she wasn't going to be able to attend. I acknowledged it, but didn't say anything else. In my mind, I was thinking, "well, that's one of the consequences of your choice to divorce."
I'm glad she's upset about it.
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
We got back the decision from the support conference, and the amount I have to pay is acceptable to me (in fact, I'm satisfied it's fair, and all things considered, I'm pretty happy with it.).
She was reaching for the bass ring, and fell short by over $ 1000. She's not going to be happy about the amount of child support and alimony she's going to receive. I think her lawyer's been blowing sunshine up her ass, making her think she's going to get a huge check, but I'm pretty sure of the legal ground I stand on.
I know she's going to be pissed, and will probably appeal it and we'll have to go to court, where things will get pretty ugly and expensive.
We had discussions to try to come to an agreement before the decision was handed down, and got nowhere. I tried to apply Sandi2's rules, with some success.
I'm pretty sure she'll come crying to me about how she can't make ends meet, and I should work more so her alimony check will be bigger. I've told her many times the company has cut back on my hours, and have proof to back it up. I almost never work overtime so I believe there's no way a judge will order me to do so to make up the lost hours.
So, as a husband trying to reconcile with my wife, what do I do? Do a 180 and, where I used to be amenable, say "tough [censored]?" Do I validate her concerns, listen sympathetically, and compromise, even though she wouldn't accept any of the compromises I offered earlier, in order to avoid a costly and long legal fight? Something else?
Thanks for reading, and any help you have to offer.
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
Don't be a doormat. She made a bet that she would do better and did worse. Let her live with the consequences and understand she needs to pick her battles more carefully the next time.
Well, here I am, a month later. Nothing's really changed.
She didn't appeal the court order, so C/S and APL are set, and I'm pretty satisfied. I'm pretty sure she just read down to the number, and didn't realize how much it's going to drop in a year when S17 graduates and the arrears is paid off. Not my problem.
I've been giving her space, going dark, GAL. Still exercising, still meeting friends for drinks/lunch, still golfing, still keeping the house tidy and clean, trying new things, having fun with the kids, spending time at my family's cabin (which she loved.... I'm sure she's bummed she'll not be invited again). Bought a new car. Something less than 27 years old (my current ride), with air conditioning (yeah!). Been on a few dates.
BUT
I just can't detach. I act "as if," but I still miss her terribly. She just bought two kittens. I'm allergic to cats. Knife in the heart. Going dark is easy 'cause I don't want to talk to her and remember how much I miss her. I've been on a few dates, but I know I'm emotionally unavailable. I enjoy these women's company, but emotionally they don't mean anything to me 'cause I'm still hung up on her.
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
Saturday morning I drove to a funeral of a family friend about an hour and a half away. Just as I was getting on the highway, the phone rings, and it's her. She says she's going to come to the funeral, too. I say "great, see you there." thinking she's going to ask me to drive together (which I would have said "no" to, because I'm tired of her always making me late), but she didn't. She apparently drove like a bat out of hell, because she showed up just as the service was about to start.
I was sitting on the aisle, with my parents, as she came up and said "Hi." I said hi, but didn't move. It was obvious she wanted to sit with us, so after an uncomfortable moment we scooted over for her. Part of me thinks I shouldn't have, but I can't decide if that was the right thing to do or not.
After the service, there was some food. She joined my parents and me at our table. Some small talk, and after about an hour we all went our separate ways.
Earlier in the week, I had invited some of our mutual friends to the pool for cocktails and appetizers, and drinks at my house after it closed. I thought she might have heard about it and asked at the funeral if she could come. I wasn't sure what my answer would be. As it was, she didn't mention it so it was a non issue.
Part of me wished she would have asked so I could deny her, part wishes she would have asked so I could have enjoyed her company, part of me wants to know she knew about it and is upset she wasn't invited, and part of me doesn't care. I need to work more on that last part.
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
In regards to detaching, your sitch is pretty new and it's going to take some time before you truly start detaching.
For me, detaching comes in small waves, and sometimes I slip and become attached again. I don't think there is any trick to expediting true detachment, only time can do that. Yes GAL, does absolutely help with detaching but I just don't think there is way to bypass a broken heart.
Keep doing what you're doing, eventually you'll get there.
I've been giving her space, going dark, GAL. Still exercising, still meeting friends for drinks/lunch, still golfing, still keeping the house tidy and clean, trying new things, having fun with the kids, spending time at my family's cabin (which she loved.... I'm sure she's bummed she'll not be invited again). Bought a new car. Something less than 27 years old (my current ride), with air conditioning (yeah!). Been on a few dates.
That all sounds great Jim! Nice work!
Quote:
I just can't detach. I act "as if," but I still miss her terribly.
Like Thornton said, you're still very early in your sitch. OF COURSE you miss her! Be patient with yourself, it'll get better with time!
Quote:
I've been on a few dates, but I know I'm emotionally unavailable. I enjoy these women's company, but emotionally they don't mean anything to me 'cause I'm still hung up on her.
Yes, exactly why I always mention not to jump into dating too soon. You're not ready and it's not fair to the women you're going out with. Again, you just need more time. Be patient
Even though you might be hurting you are still handling business. You have a lot of logical things you throughout this painful time. A lot people react emotionally. As I often have. Reading your story shows me there is a way to be strong and hurt at the same time.
Thanks for the posts they give me hope.
M:37 W:37 T:11 M:10 S17, S13, S10, S4 BD:06/28/17 OM confirmed 07/20/17 Recon the M 10/29/17 Working hard:2gether
Onward and forward
This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
Had dinner with a friend on Tuesday. She asked me if I'd take the wife back if she wanted to try again. I thought about it for a bit, and realized, no, I don't want her to return so we could continue in the same crappy marriage. If she would acknowledge her contributions to the failure of our marriage, and want to, and make effort to change, I would. But otherwise, no.
That's a big step for me.
Also, I've been reading some of the other threads, and about taking my balls back. It's been good for me, and I've made some changes to other relationships and been more assertive. It's worked out fairly well, especially because I have realized I didn't really care whether the other person liked it or not.
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
I thought about it for a bit, and realized, no, I don't want her to return so we could continue in the same crappy marriage. If she would acknowledge her contributions to the failure of our marriage, and want to, and make effort to change, I would. But otherwise, no.
Good for you! Thats what it is about, getting your confidence back! The sooner you get your confidence back the better off you will be emotionally in your sitch.
Quote:
Also, I've been reading some of the other threads, and about taking my balls back. It's been good for me, and I've made some changes to other relationships and been more assertive.
I have literally spent hours on this site reading threads as far back as 10 years ago. This site is the only reason why I feel as good as I do. Nice work!
Just got an interesting email from my W. She's having problems with her hip, and has scheduled a doctor's appt for Wednesday, which means she can't go to work this week as planned. (She's a flight attendant.) With her history, I wouldn't be surprised if she has surgery. She's had a LOT of surgeries in the last few years.
A part of me says "Oh, that's a shame. I hope she's alright."
The far larger part of me says "Ha! Who's going to take care of you NOW, bitch?!?!"
I'm not proud of that, but there it is.
Maybe I'm not quite as detached as I thought..... or, maybe I'm just a horrible person.
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
Had dinner with a friend on Tuesday. She asked me if I'd take the wife back if she wanted to try again. I thought about it for a bit, and realized, no, I don't want her to return so we could continue in the same crappy marriage. If she would acknowledge her contributions to the failure of our marriage, and want to, and make effort to change, I would. But otherwise, no.
This is what I've been struggling with for the past 6 months. Constantly asking myself, "Why do I keep fighting to save my marriage?" From my perspective my W is still acting like an alien so why would I want to live with and be married to someone like that? Yes, of course I would entertain the idea of piecing if she showed genuine remorse and a willingness to transform the relationship. But that's not happening and I don't expect it to for a long time (if ever).
My ego gets in the way. I don't want to let go because I don't want to lose. In my head, conceding = admitting she's right and she wins. But this is unhealthy and unrealistic. The only person I have to answer to is myself. I tried everything I could think of to avoid getting divorced. Now I have to do what's right for me and my kids, without worrying about her... Easier said than done though!!
M46 W48 M11 T14 S11 D8 BD: 2016/05/27 In-home separation: 2016/11/23 Nesting: 2017/06/11 W moves out: 2018/01/07 W goes public with OM: 2018/07/12 I ask for a divorce: 2018/12/14
I feel the exact same way as you. "Why do I keep fighting to save my marriage?"
My ego gets in my way as well. I hate losing, but I start realizing I'm losing myself trying to win back my wife. There is no losing if I gain my happiness. I had a wake up call yesterday and 25 gave me some great advice. I haven't fully detached. I haven't given the process its full due. I have been doing things to get a reaction from my wife. No more. I mean no more. It's all about me and my boys. I will detach with love, but I have awaken. I know about the make some mistakes, but my caring and emotional side has died for her. She doesn't see it coming but, I'm finally ready. And Chris73, and Jim1234 so are you'll.
M:37 W:37 T:11 M:10 S17, S13, S10, S4 BD:06/28/17 OM confirmed 07/20/17 Recon the M 10/29/17 Working hard:2gether
Onward and forward
This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
Just got an interesting email from my W. She's having problems with her hip, and has scheduled a doctor's appt for Wednesday, which means she can't go to work this week as planned. (She's a flight attendant.) With her history, I wouldn't be surprised if she has surgery. She's had a LOT of surgeries in the last few years.
A part of me says "Oh, that's a shame. I hope she's alright."
The far larger part of me says "Ha! Who's going to take care of you NOW, bitch?!?!"
I'm not proud of that, but there it is.
Maybe I'm not quite as detached as I thought..... or, maybe I'm just a horrible person.
You are not a horrible person, but if you are like me, we want our WW to learn a lesson. We did some things in our marriage that weren't the best, but we are fixing ourselves and they want to prove to us that they can live without us. Here is a chance for you to prove she can't and that makes you feel good. Nothing wrong with that. Just don't be spiteful and mean. Detach with love. It's hard I know.
M:37 W:37 T:11 M:10 S17, S13, S10, S4 BD:06/28/17 OM confirmed 07/20/17 Recon the M 10/29/17 Working hard:2gether
Onward and forward
This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
Just don't be spiteful and mean. Detach with love. It's hard I know.
I'm probably jumping the gun... she'll probably never ask for my help, but if she does, does anyone have any suggestions as to a reply that won't sound spiteful and mean?
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
Well, if you read the detachment feed it says "don't contact unless due to emergencies. If she truly needs your help. Help with love and care, but dont expect nothing from it.
Last edited by Cadet; 09/12/1704:39 AM. Reason: start a new thread message
M:37 W:37 T:11 M:10 S17, S13, S10, S4 BD:06/28/17 OM confirmed 07/20/17 Recon the M 10/29/17 Working hard:2gether
Onward and forward
This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
Tomorrow we're going into the City to look at NYU with our son. He's going to stay in the City and come home later tomorrow night, so W and I are going to be in the car together for about 1 1/2 hours on the way home.
Part of me is looking forward to spending some time with her; part of me is dreading it.
Our conversations these days all seem to devolve into "you should work more" with the implication that I should pay for the lion's share of college since I can make a lot more money than she. No matter how many times I tell her "I can't work more" she doesn't hear it and just gets herself worked up and angry.
Of course, before she moved out and bought a house with money we had saved, there was plenty of money to send the kids to college, but that doesn't seem to enter into the discussion.....
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
Had a very nice day today. The college visit was informative, beautiful day in the City, everyone was pleasant.....
Part of me was dreading the drive home, but it was actually good. We chatted pleasantly, we discussed issues with the kids, brought up a few 'housekeeping' issues that we were able to resolve amicably, and even had a potentially contentious financial discussion where I tried to validate her feelings, and it stayed pleasant.
I even apologized for complaining about how little she did around the house when we were together, because now I realize the toilets don't clean themselves. I don't think it was in a "come back to me" way, but rather a "sincere apology for having done wrong by her for years" sort of way, without any expectations. She appreciated it, and the conversation moved on to other things.
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
I walked a book that I borrowed back to a neighbor's house yesterday afternoon. Chatted on the porch, realized I had plenty of food for dinner, and invited her to join the kids and me. She has been a frequent dinner guest at our house when W was living here. (It wasn't a weird thing to do; it was very normal, with no ulterior motive.)
She said no, thank you, and after a moment's hesitation, confessed she felt like it would upset W if she came to dinner with me and the kids. At the time, I just accepted that.
After returning home, I thought about what she said a little bit, and realized two things. 1) She is worried it would upset W if she came to dinner with me, but doesn't really care that I might have become upset when she had drinks with W last week? and 2) Does that mean W would be upset if I was entertaining friends?
Item 1) kind of pisses me off. And item 2), as much as I'm trying to disconnect, kind of makes me think "good, maybe she'll think a bit and realize what she's missing," which also pisses me off because I'm not disconnecting as well as I'd like.
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
After returning home, I thought about what she said a little bit, and realized two things. 1) She is worried it would upset W if she came to dinner with me, but doesn't really care that I might have become upset when she had drinks with W last week?
Well it is different, because she is a woman and you're a man so she is no doubt concerned your W may think there's some romantic connection happening there even if your intentions are pure. Obviously there is not the same risk with her having drinks with your W, it's just two same-sex friends hanging out.
Quote:
and 2) Does that mean W would be upset if I was entertaining friends?
Look at it this way. You have a good friend that breaks up with his wife and you are friends with both of them. His wife stops by your house to drop off a book and asks you to dinner. Would you go? Surely in your mind you would be thinking "no I can't do that, my buddy might think I'm trying to move in on his W". You would think that EVEN IF YOU HAD DRINKS WITH HIM THE WEEK BEFORE, right? I don't see anything here to be angry about, your friend is just trying to keep the peace with both of you, I think she's doing the right thing.
You have a good friend that breaks up with his wife and you are friends with both of them. His wife stops by your house to drop off a book and asks you to dinner. Would you go? Surely in your mind you would be thinking "no I can't do that, my buddy might think I'm trying to move in on his W".
I understand your point, and, for example, have avoided including a friend's ex wife in golf outings so as not to upset him.
Maybe I'm too close to the trees to see the forest. Would it make any real difference if the scenario was that I had this woman over to my house almost every time my W was on a (frequent) business trip, with W's knowledge and encouragement, for various reasons the idea of a romantic relationship was ridiculous, and we would only be continuing these obviously platonic dinners?
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
Would it make any real difference if the scenario was that I had this woman over to my house almost every time my W was on a (frequent) business trip, with W's knowledge and encouragement, for various reasons the idea of a romantic relationship was ridiculous, and we would only be continuing these obviously platonic dinners?
I'm just trying to look at it from your friend's point-of-view, and I think she's attempting to avoid any possible -appearance- of impropriety. The difference between now and before is (obviously) that your M is on the rocks. So you are potentially "available" to the opposite sex now whereas you weren't before. So even though you and she may have perfectly harmless intentions, you really don't know how your W would perceive it if you had her over. I am 99% sure that your W would suspect something no matter how much or little you might explain to the contrary, and your friend probably knows that.
