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I'm not sure how exactly to advise you on that, but I have read here often to keep your M/emotions completely separate from the financials. That's hard to do, obviously! Perhaps you can think about it this way--what choices would you make about finances/taxes if it had absolutely no affect on your R with him? Maybe do that--do the "right" thing--not what may win him back or punish him. If he were your business partner and you had to file taxes together, what choices would you make? Can you just do that--treat this as all business and put emotions aside? If it helps don't discuss any of it, just email all the financials and in a matter of fact tone. A good paper trail may be needed down the road too.

I've been meaning to chime in because I read along and your anger is palpable. I can really, truly relate to this anger! During the time my H was gone, I was bubbling over with hurt and anger--that is what makes following Sandi's rules so, so hard! You have to put on your strong/confident mask when you interact, when all you want to do is snap, fire off, or cry and fall apart. I know how hard this is! I also know how hard we can be on ourselves when the time is going on and on and we wonder why we haven't made any progress yet. You feel stuck and frustrated on top of wounded and angry. I get it.

My therapist had described it to me this way--I was the lion and he was the mouse. He stayed deep in his hole because he knew the moment he peaked his head out, I would rip it off. Or roar. So he stayed in there, where he was safe. So I don't want to put anymore pressure on you, skm, put could it be that you are also a lion? Even when you don't rip his head off, with each interaction, are you reminding him that you are hurt and angry? If so, he will stay hidden.

I know you don't have kids and there are fewer opportunities to interact, so that must be frustrating. How can you better use those times to DB? Can you try and only listen and validate the next time you talk? Less is always more in this game.

I can also see your exhausted and want to know how much longer you can do this. Here is the thing, what is it you would like to do differently? I like 25s mental activity of imagining that H has died, some time has passed, and to plan your life that way. If that involves selling your home, changing jobs, moving, etc, then it's perfectly okay to do those things now. What exactly is holding you back? Really think hard on that.

I see that you are feeling stuck, but I want you to see that H is not keeping you stuck, you can only keep you stuck. Really think about it. He's gone. It hurts, I know it hurts, but he is. You can't wait for him.

This is why I believe in DB; if we can follow the program is serves us in two ways. We learn to put ourselves first, GAL, 180, and become a stronger and more confident person. In that time we can also allow ourselves to let go of our M, detach, and possibly accept and forgive them. In time, they will see a stronger, happier, and "improved" person. This increases our chance that they will want to come back.

Not all do and many don't ever. If you can start moving forward and finding happiness without H, then you will feel better. That's what you need right now, correct? If you can start moving in that direction, he will notice. He will see that you have let go of some of the anger because you are more focused on you. And if he doesn't ever come back, well then I'm sorry for him because you deserve better. You deserve someone that can love you and appreciate you for who you are.

Do you really want someone that can walk out on your M, cheat, and totally abandon you? I bet your strong and happy self doesn't. So how can we find her again???

If there is one thing I wish I could have done differently during a long, and painful, separation, it would be all of the above. That is why I tell you this--I can see you in me. My anger only held me back and only hurt me. He is not holding you back--he is gone--it's time to live for you.

(((Skm)))

Blu


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What a magnificent post, Blu. I am an LBH, but I think what you have posted above can be applied to anyone in this situation. I am saving this one to read over and over again.

This would be tough for me to implement, because I have contact with my WW many times per day. Either exchanging the kids or the fact that she texts or calls me all the time. I would need to get to the point where I went stone-cold dark on her, but that has been very tough to do in our separation.

Anyway, didn't mean to hijack, but this was an amazing post and I think SKM would be very wise to follow every bit of it.


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Blu......

I really do want to get rid of this anger. It is not healthy for me at all. You are exactly right when you said all I want to do is snap, fire off or cry and fall apart. And, I really do wonder when this is going to get better. It really is holding me back becoming a better version of myself.

I know that I am the one who will decide when I get better. I just wonder if me continuing to act this way is me having control issues.....probably so.

O M G ...... I had such an "AHA moment" when you said what your therapist said to you about H in the mouse hole and we are the lion just waiting for them to come out so we can roar and pounce on them. He told me is scared to call me or initiate any conversation with me because he is afraid of how I am going to react. That makes me sad frown

Even when you don't rip his head off, with each interaction, are you reminding him that you are hurt and angry? If so, he will stay hidden. THIS IS SO ACCURATE!!!!!

I am meeting him for dinner tonight. We have not seen each other for 4 months. I am really hoping I can control my emotions, as well as my reactions.

Say a little prayer for me.

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You can do this!!! Prepare for the worst, and do not let that (or him) change your course. If you can do this, you will feel so much better about yourself. He doesn't determine how you respond, got it??? Even if he shows up with D papers and says/does the most unimaginable things--I'm never coming back, I want D, and I never loved you, spew, spew, etc--you are going to do the same exact thing. Got it?

Here it is: Poker face. Listen, listen, and listen. Say nothing! Read up on the validation cheat sheets and use them all. Those are your best friends right now. Let him do all the talking. Got it??? Even if he lies, spews, attcks, and makes things up. Just listen. Offer nothing as to where you stand, feel, and what you want--he already knows anyway. It's ok if he thinks you are losing interest--that's ok right now. He needs to see you are not angry and that you are safe to approach.

If he tries to ask you questions, or engage you, just listen and tell him you have a lot to think about. Or thank you for asking. I have a lot on my mind right now. Or turn that chit right around on him---can you elaborate on that? I'm thinking and wondering why you're asking. Can I get back to you on that? I need some time to think. Got it???

Look, people and their feelings are always changing. Always. He is scared of you, your emotions, and what to do also. Show him with your actions that you are a woman that is strong, confident, and caring. Even if he is there to do/say the worst possible, he can still change his mind one day---show him a woman that only a fool would leave. 180 TIME is now!

Put your anger on the back burner. Show him that soft, caring, listening side of you. Just listen and validate. Your only goals. And that you are going to need to think more about whatever he says/asks. Especially financial stuff--- that you may need in email form.

As soon as you drive away you can cry, yell, or beat the steering wheel.

We want him to see you're okay moving on without him and you are not sitting there waiting. You can do this!!!!!!

Blu


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Something bothers me, it seems that he reinitiated some contacts with you when he realized how deep in debt he was. Please follow Blu advice, keep your financial interests separate from your emotional needs.

Listen and validate him tonight, but remember you don't have to give any answers right on site, ask for some time to think about it.

My WH used to be very nice and open to communication when he needed something. I am not implying that he might try to manipulate you but keep it in mind. One WH' friend made her pay her credit car bill just 2 months before filing. Be very careful...

Good luck. Keep your expectations low and detach+++

Last edited by job; 03/28/17 10:54 AM. Reason: Corrected a word for poster and added spaces between paragraphs

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Blu and Skyhigh.......

Blu.....I took a picture of what you wrote and I am going to look at it if I find myself becoming upset smile

Skyhigh.....last night when we spoke I told him that I had told myself that the next conversation we had it would be in person. He suggested that we could meet tonight. This was before he asked about the money, but believe me I also am thinking that he wants the money and that is why he is being nice. I did say to him that he could ask me for the money but that I might say no, and what did he think about that, and his answer was "well I guess I will have to accept that."

I am not taking my checkbook with me and I am not asking for an account numbers from him either. I really do need to think how I can handle this situation. I know it is his money, but still makes it hard to justify giving it to him. D*MN IT!!!!!

I want to think he is doing this to see how I am doing or maybe see if he can be around me.....but the scared side of me thinks otherwise. I definitely have my guard up. In our conversation last night it was the first time he actually asked me how I was doing. Every other convo with him as always been about him.

I will try to enjoy my time with him cause I have no idea when I will see him again.

Here goes.....

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I hope the meeting was ok. Please know that we are all lifting you up thru all that you are going thru. I know this is the hardest thing you have ever gone thru, but it is strengthening you even more than you know.

Jeremiah 29:11New International Version (NIV)

11 For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.


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I feel for you so much because the raw emotions are apparent. I can relate to much of what you say, including the anger. But coming late to your posts, I am intrigued that you were so concerned about him not contacting you and having opportunity to contact you and then when he did twice you did not pick up and made excuses why you could not talk to him. Yes, I too would be concerned about the money issue, but it seems that he is trying to be more open and honest with you, and in response you are becoming less so with him. I wonder if you are very conflicted about wanting him back and perhaps holding on for some other reason (perhaps fear--I know in my case I obsess over him so I don't have to turn that harsh light on myself).

Take the anger out at the gym, or save it for later when you know what the outcome is. Everyone has anger. We have all been lied to, cheated on, ignored, we are all having to be the bigger and better person, etc. If you are really wanting to give this a chance, accept that he is trying to do better by you and to be a better person. Stop punishing him for the past. You don't have to figure out all of this today but if you push away the small movements he makes you will definitely not have a tomorrow with him, if that is what you want.

It seems to me that you need to do a lot more looking at yourself. But I see you are making a great start in that by acknowledging your anger. He is just not someone you can vent on right now.

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Skm, how did it go? Hope you are doing okay and it was a smooth interaction. Update us soon!

Blu


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Blu, Skyhigh, SBJ and OwnIt........thank you for all the good thoughts, suggestions and support. As always it is greatly appreciated.

I have worked the past 2 days, and as usual it was very emotionally draining, so that is why I am just now posting smile

The meeting with H was VERY LONG. We decided to meet for dinner at 7:30. When I arrived at the restaurant he was waiting in the parking lot for me. When I got out of the car and approached him he couldnt even look me in the eye. I spoke first to say hello, and of course I initiated small talk. As we sat down to eat, he continued to not be able to look me in the eye. I made sure to make eye contact with him at all times.

The conversation was 98% about him, which was what I expected. I did A LOT of validating. The more I listened, the more he talked. We spoke about many different things, but I wont bore you with those details. His life, his job, his working out, how he has changed what he is eating, how he is struggling financially, how he is losing his hair. If I recall, he did ask me one question about my job, but nothing else about me. He did make one comment about me working out and said that I looked good.

There were times when he made comments that I did not agree with, and I had to take a breath so that I wouldn't say something I would regret. I will say there were a few times that I rolled my eyes at what he was saying.

He again said he was sorry that it took him so long to apologize to me for the A and how he has acted towards me since. He did mention that he has told family and other close friends that I am not the horrible person he made me out to be, and that the reason I was only acting the way I was, was because of how he was treating me. I was SHOCKED to hear that. He continues to work on himself, and I can hear that in how he speaks. He is still being deceptive and manipulating things, which I don't know if he will ever be able to stop doing. I told him that I was proud of him because I knew it was difficult for anyone to do that, let alone him.

We finally made it to our vehicles around 11:30 pm. He asked to see my new car and ended up sitting inside of it. Well....that turned into another 2 hours!!! He FINALLY brought up the money issues. He admitted that he is struggling pretty bad financially. He asked if I would be able to give him the tax money, and also about canceling his cell phone. He got a different number about 6 months ago because he thought I was doing something to his, so he now has 2 phones and 2 bills to deal with. I told him that I would do the right thing by giving him the tax money because it is his. I did not offer to write him a check or anything like that. I told him it would be up to him to figure out how he could get the money. We also spoke about selling the house. He admitted he was shocked that I wanted to sell it, and felt a bit sad about it being sold.

He made a comment to me about someone going through his trash around Christmas time and insinuated it was me. WELL.....I was in California at Christmas time, but what really upset me was that he would even think that I would do something like that. So....that was enough to get me upset. I did unleash a bit on him and told him I did not appreciate him even THINKING that I would do that. He said he is still paranoid about things because of what he did, and still looks over his shoulder and feels like people are always staring at him or following him.

I have not told him this before (or anyone else for that matter) ......... I have been worried that I was being followed when I get off work. I work late, sometimes don't leave the hospital until 11 or 12 midnight, so there are not many vehicles in the parking lot where I park. So, when I see another vehicle, and it ends up moving in the same direction as me, I get worried. This has happened a few times. I also have noticed a vehicle parked down the street from my house that is never usually there. And, one night after we (the dogs and I) had returned from a walk and I was standing in the front yard, one of the dogs started barking like crazy and ran to the end of the driveway. Well.....there was a guy standing there. So that freaked me out a bit. And, another night the dogs were in the backyard and one of them was barking like crazy and when I looked outside I thought I saw someone in the backyard. H got pretty upset after hearing that. He asked me what the guy looked like and then said that sounded like his APs husband. He felt bad because he felt this was happening as a result of his poor choices.

I asked him why he hadn't filed for D, after all it's been 16 months since we have been separated. I asked if it was because he couldn't afford it and he said "no, I'm still trying to figure things out." Not really sure what that means.

I told him that our previous M longer existed and that I need to move forward. I told him that he knows how I feel, and that moving forward I did not know what our relationship would be like, but that I am going to continue to work on myself, and only time will tell.

He mentioned several times that he was going to go home, but would not get out of the car. We would continue to speak for a bit more and he would say he needed to go but again wouldn't get out of the car. So finally at 1:30 in the morning I said "its' time for you to go home." He hesitated, and then did get out of the car. I got out, gave him a hug and then he drove off.

He knew I was working the next two days, and texted me to ask me if I made it home okay. I thought that was nice of him. He also told me how he wanted me to send him the money (electronically). I did not acknowledge that text cause it was after I got home after work last night. Today, he has called to ask me if I got his text. I was speaking with my realtor when he called and I have not called him back.

I feel different after that meeting with him. His eyes were empty and he was expressionless a lot of the time. And not to mention, he is still so selfish and focused only on himself. I feel like I can FINALLY drop the rope, focus on me and move forward.

I have contacted a realtor, and have started looking for places to live. I am going to move out as soon as I can, whether I sell this house or not. I need to move forward.

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