Thank you all for the feedback and advice. I think Kaizen nailed it with "Sounds like you may be in shock", not that that's an excuse for my passivity but I'm sure part of my reaction is the 'Deer in headlights' response.
Doodler, you ask "What do you think your wife thinks about you?". I think she is quite suprised and maybe curious about my relative calm response. I don't think she's thinking - how weak and pathetic is this guy? I do however understand that there is likely an unconcious primal reaction that is looking for 'King of the Jungle', gorilla like strength and not seeing any of that in me.
annab74 it's not that I disagree with you at all. I definitely have to improve my boundaries. It's just a fine line between provoking drama and not engaging while remaining civil. I know I'm definitely erring on the side of cake-eating but when you've slept in the same bed and ate at the same table together for 16+ years it seems a bit childish and manipulative to make her sleep and eat elsewhere. I do not want to give her any reason to jump permanently out the door even though she's spending many nights out of doors already.
Thanks so much for your long input 25yearmic. Some really valuable info there. The GALing to be happy is definitely a challenge right now. I have been running every evening which is new for me. My GALing hasn't yet proceeded to evening and away from home stuff like Kaizen and Jeep74 suggested. I am looking for some meetups and will definitely start this soon. Up till now my GALing has been getting busy with jobs around the house. By the way - very impressive list of GAL activities you cited for yourself - I do find that inspiring.
Meanwhile, she's talking about taking the 2 dogs and staying with OM for a week - sort of testing things out for long term. She keeps asking me if I'd prefer that or just proceed straight to 6 month separation. I keep telling her 'you know my viewpoints on this affair'. Definitely, indecision, confusion perhaps co-dependence wanting me on some level to approve. I'd like a psychologists viewpoint on that one.
So I'm going hiking tomorrow with a hiking group. The Wife asked me what I was doing this weekend and I answered that I'm going hiking tomorrow and maybe playing tennis tonight (both new behaviors for me). Judging from her reaction it feels like this just widens the gap between us. Her reaction was 'good, that's great you are getting out and will meet some new people' (repeated twice). It's as though it just lessens her guilt over what she is doing to me and allows her to move closer to OM. I do worry that a lot of what gets recommended here (although it works the majority of the time for most people) is formulaic and every WS is different. She seemed very glad that I was doing my own stuff, I assume because it allows her more freedom (emotionally) to do her own stuff i.e. time with OM. I personally think that her guilt can work in my favor so doing anything to reduce that guilt isn't helpful.
Anyway, I will still go on the hike but this might be an area to 'stop doing what doesn't work'.
Judging from her reaction it feels like this just widens the gap between us. Her reaction was 'good, that's great you are getting out and will meet some new people' (repeated twice). It's as though it just lessens her guilt over what she is doing to me and allows her to move closer to OM.
Lessens her guilt? What are you suggesting to do as an alternative? Even if you could cause her to feel guilty, do you want a MR based on guilt? Her affair has caused the wide gap in the MR.........not you GAL.
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I do worry that a lot of what gets recommended here (although it works the majority of the time for most people) is formulaic and every WS is different. She seemed very glad that I was doing my own stuff, I assume because it allows her more freedom (emotionally) to do her ow
Here's what I am seeing..........You want her to be the exception. You want to believe your own reasoning about what she feels and thinks. You want her to feel some guilt over this affair, b/c it would mean she may not really be like the other women you've read about here. And, your fear is emotionally paralyzing you.
I would say it is not uncommon to see the same thing going through the minds of most LBH'S when they first join the board. Perhaps it's your way of trying to process it. You might feel better if you set up some sessions with DB coaches. From what I've read, they encourage a softer approach with the cheating spouse...and encourage building a friendship with her. They do not separate the wayward wife from the WAW. So, that may be more to your liking.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
So I'm going hiking tomorrow with a hiking group. The Wife asked me what I was doing this weekend and I answered that I'm going hiking tomorrow and maybe playing tennis tonight (both new behaviors for me). Judging from her reaction it feels like this just widens the gap between us. Her reaction was 'good, that's great you are getting out and will meet some new people' (repeated twice). It's as though it just lessens her guilt over what she is doing to me and allows her to move closer to OM. Wow, that is not how I read her reaction at all. To me, she's uttering what "sounds nice" to her. Hence saying it twice. There's no way she's not curious about it. She has probably wanted some changes in you that are now happening. No way is she totally at ease about it. It means leaving behind something she was hoping for, for a long time.
Unless she is actually indifferent, but that would be mind reading and we are not supposed to do that. (AND IF she is indifferent, and you are doing things you actually enjoy, then keep doing it b/c it's too late to save the m anyhow. )
But when you say "it's as though it lessens her guilt..." MIND READING gets you nowhere... AND , I'm not sure she feels guilty so much as justified. Remember that when spouses have affairs, usually they rationalize it b/c of their perceived unmet needs.
As a woman, I'm a tad biased (though not in favor of affairs!)..But the women I know who have had affairs, have almost universally justified the affair, usually for emotional reasons. In your w's case, she has some issues you admit are not insignificant. It's not as if she wants out of a marriage in which she was perfectly happy.
I only say this ^^ to explain why I doubt her guilt is a factor that helps you at the moment. Guilt and regret are more likely if she sees you as bringing something to the table, other than judgement. Like a marriage that values some of the things she values which were not emphasized in the m. You know she wanted children, more intimacy and passion, and what else?
What things were missing in the m, that you actually would also like more of? If it's being outdoors more, for instance, then hiking is perfect.
So I don't think guilting her will work at all, btw. And I sure don't think she's feeling wrong, though I agree she doesn't wish you were not hurt.
You need to understand that her seeing your pain is not going to make you look attractive to her, regardless.
**But seeing a man she thought would never change, suddenly GAL and changing, & presenting new "data" about himself, e.g. means
that he is NOT who she thought he was, AND OR he is no longer the man she found lacking. She believed life could not improve, b/c you would not change. And yet...
..and that undermines the negative images she has created - some of which are probably valid - and it May undermine the fantasy of the smooth life with OM. It certainly does not fuel her negatives...
Life is going to be rougher with OM than expected. It has to be. Life is that way.
So if she faces rough spots she did not expect and can stop looking at the shore with OM, and looks back over her shoulder and sees that life with you can be better, in an improved marriage,
well, it's a thought.
There are those who will keep saying to give her the boot. They could be right.
But I think she left a marriage that was an unhappy place for her for a long time. Maybe not such a happy place for you either?
I feel like she thinks that the m she left had to end b/c it could not improve.
Your new behaviors are challenging that belief.
I do worry that a lot of what gets recommended here (although it works the majority of the time for most people) is formulaic and every WS is different. Saying to do what works and not do what doesn't work, may sound formulaic but by definition it is not. It's a customized approach , when done correctly.
She seemed very glad that I was doing my own stuff, I assume stop the mind reading. Gets you nowhere. Plus, the alternative is what? Staying home and pining for her? To acheive what? To prove love?
I think respecting her enough to let her make her own mistakes, is a much better, more attractive choice than coming from a place of need.
To be clear, I assume you have told her that you love her and want to remain married, rather than merely and repeatedly reminding her that you do not approve. She already knows that.
because it allows her more freedom (emotionally) to do her own stuff i.e. time with OM. I personally think that her guilt can work in my favor so doing anything to reduce that guilt isn't helpful.
I so disagree with this^^^.
Anyway, I will still go on the hike but this might be an area to 'stop doing what doesn't work'.
What did you expect her to do when she heard for the first time, that you were hiking?
did you think she'd slap her forehead and say "NO don't! Please, I want you to know how insecure I am when you do literally anything new".
AND I don't think you are reading her accurately. It's as if you believe she's saying "oh, h, You must be FINE with my choices, and so now I'm free to feel great about it all!"??
Geez, give her some time to process the man you are becoming. That takes time. consistent change + time = change she can believe in. Trust me on one thing --- a woman who leaves her h (with or without OM,)
is not about to return to the marriage she left and
The more you change authentically (and grow for your own sake!!),
the more she will wonder if you just might becoming the man she always wanted you to become.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Sorry for the delay - not a lot to report. Firstly, thankyou all for taking the time to read this (and other threads) and provide feedback. I think the crowd input is valuable and some lines/quote are Golden.
They cancelled the hiking, but I did get out to play mixed doubles tennis - I'll likely make that a regular Sunday thing as long as it remains available. There definitely was some curiosity on Wife's part about the Women in the group.
Your points are taken about the mind-reading - I really don't know what the heck is going on in her head. Also Sandi2, I definitely don't want a MR based on guilt - things seem so obvious when they are spelled out like that. I'll put my 'lessens her guilt..' comment down to my emotionality right now but I'm sure I will be indulging in more of that.
Thanks for the clarification 25yearsmic on guilt vs justification and your concise clarity on many points - being an engineer, your formulas are very helpful. I need to keep answering this question of yours - "What things were missing in the m, that you actually would also like more of?" Getting outside in nature is a big one. Travel is huge but requires considerable resources (money and time). Meeting stimulating groups of people (like the kind people on this forum) is another one.
She's still vacillating between taking the 2 dogs for a week to stay with OM or just proceeding to Separation immediately. She still seems to need me to decide which I've been resisting. Definitely some hesitation and confusion, however she still spends half the nights with OM. Anyone want to comment on that vacillation and the need for me to decide?
There is likely pressure from OM's side building for her to spend full time with him (he moved recently into an apartment more suitable for the 2 of them - being single he's obviously committed) and I think it's getting close for her to make the jump.
Today my Wife returned quite emotional after spending the night and morning with the OM (she continues to spend about half the nights with him). She cried a little and spoke about how we messed things up and made so many mistakes. She was relating her regrets on how we've arrived at this situation - even talking about decisions we made 20 years ago. Blaming me for being hard (too demanding) on her. I comforted her and told her that there isn't any point in beating herself up about decisions made in the past. She also mentioned that if we did get back together we'd need to sell this house and buy a smaller one. But in the next breath asked if I understand that she HAS to be with OM although she doesn't know if it will work in the long term.
She also seems to be subtly delaying completing and signing the Separation agreement (this has happened a couple of times). She keeps saying we have to go over it together - that's what we had already planned to do today when she came back but didn't in the end. I think that's what made her emotional.
After a nap in the afternoon she's now in the bath and will be spending another night with him and tells me that we must go over the document tomorrow. The plan is still to finalize the separation agreement by going to lawyers together (maybe this week).
I did have one session with one of the DB Coaches. She was very nice but unfortunately it took a full half an hour to relate my story and background. In the remaining 20 minutes we basically covered things that have already been advised and spoken about amongst you all in this forum. So I didn't really discover anything new but maybe this is testament to all of your kind and helpful work here.
Meanwhile, I'm playing Tennis tomorrow and very slowly GALing.
Today, she lets me know that OM has huge plans for their future. Then in next sentence comments that he has lots of similarities with her Father (her Father left the family when she was young and they have lots of issues) and she knows his faults. Then the next sentence is - what I love about him is he works so hard to spiritually improve himself.
She slept at OM's apartment again last night and plans to spend most of this week there. As usual when she leaves for the night she comes and gives me a quick hug (a bit awkwardly for both of us) and says "see you tomorrow". I remain civil.
We still haven't reviewed Separation Contract together.
One heck of a roller-coaster with more downs than ups if that's possible.
