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hello love!! fwiw, these questions i ask you from time to time never need to be answered here. rather, they are 'thought prompts' for lack of a better phrase, to help you work thru whatever you're facing.

i don't want you to ever feel that you owe me - or anyone - any explanations.

if my questions helped you sort through and come up with a plan that feels right, i'm delighted!

M you are someone who has always acted with integrity, grace and compassion, and what you've outlined makes sense to me, anyway! more importantly, I sense that you're at peace with this.

thanks for clarifying your h's comments. yeah, they do tend to do the old MLC twist and shout while they are re-writing history and/or making it easier to justify their decisions and actions, don't they. It's like they all read the same book or something.

you sound strong, at peace and ready. we are here for you always !!! xoxoxoxoxoxo

{{{{hugs and much love}}}}


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
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Mleigh - I just want you to know that I am thinking of you. I always enjoy hearing from you.

In regards to your wanting to date, it's just hard because this whole time you've been moving forward and it *seems* like he's stuck in the finger pointing stage. (Maybe he's further along but it's not transparent?) He seems to be holding grudges over garden variety marital problems and yet not seeing the tsunamis he's caused. It's that ever present lack of self awareness that runs through MLC.

I want to see you and your son as happy and fulfilled as possible. Keep us posted on how you are doing. You are an inspiration; another one who made it through this experience stronger than ever.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
Joined: Oct 2014
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MLeigh - just popped in after a long absence but so happy to hear about how well you are doing. Sending you nothing but the best. I believe you've been unbelievably strong and gracious through everything.

You deserve a life full of friends and love. Perhaps that means a boyfriend soon or perhaps it means being surrounded by the loyalty of loving family and friends that value you!


M:25 years at BD w/ 2 daughters
BD: 5/14
Separated 6/14 - H moved cross country w/OW
D Final 9/17

“I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it.”
― Maya Angelou



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Hey MLeigh, just got up to date with your posts.

I really don't know you did it, remaining friends with H for so long! The difference between you and I is that I would contstantly pushing H for more especially if we went away together!

Did your talks ever materialise? I dont know, I get the impression he is not sure how to move forward and be in an R with you because he is worried it isn't what you want. However that is your choice to make now not his.

I agree that he doesn't need to know what you are doing re dating. My H was constantly asking questions about what we were doing but was very reluctant to let us into his life.

MLeigh, you have been doing this for a long time and it was lovely that you did this mostly with your S's wellbeing in mind but your H was also benefiting from the arrangement. Like me, the only person who wasn't benefiting is you so now is the time to look after you and let S and H make their own arrangements.

Take care.


Me - 47
H - 45
D-16
M - 6 years
Separated - May 16

Don't leave me behind can't you see me I'm shining... (Years & Years - 'Shine')
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Hello,

Bttrfly, I appreciate your questions and it actually helps to share my feelings smile

HW, H being stuck is putting it mildly, more on that coming up.

Gwen, so good to see your visit! I definitely keep surrounded by caring friends. In fact this experience helped me realize how important it is to be around positivity, love and support. I am lucky to have that.

Coly, I did used to push H a lot. His responses only brought on more pain, the hurtful feedback was enough to quiet me. However, more on that, because my pulling back actually got thrown in my face. Yes, H and I talked last night for about an hour.....

So, H brought up we were supposed to talk before his trip. I was shocked! He asked to come over last night after work. He did, we all had dinner, then H and I went in the office room to chat.

It was awkward small talk until we got quiet. We sighed and laughed, I told him I don't really know what to say to start. He agreed. So I asked how he was and how he was feeling about us lately. So the conversation started.

I began by saying I really didn't see this going anywhere, is it that he doesn't want to work on anything? He said he doesn't feel that I want to work on things. I asked him, you don't think for the last 3 1/2 years that I have wanted to try to save our marriage? He said in the beginning, I was trying, but then I stopped saying anything and talked about how happy I was, so he figured I wasn't interested anymore. I asked, when I said I was happy, you took that as happier without you? He said yes. He said he could see I was happier and doing better, so he figured I wanted things to stay this way. (Hhmmmm truth or BS?)

So I said that was incorrect, that I have very much wanted to work on us. I asked him, why would I be suggesting counseling, taking things slow, dating each other, if I wasn't wanting to work this out? His answer was that it's unfair I get upset that's he doesn't do anything to try when I don't do anything either....

I said, don't you kind of think the ball is in your court with that? You needed to move out, to have space, be alone and figure things out. And You were waiting for me to ask you out? I think I laughed there, but really not so funny.

He got agitated, said I moved out first. I told him, my reason for moving out was completely different than his. I had just found out he was doing things behind my back, I was convinced he was screwing around, and he was telling me he didn't want to be together anymore. I said, I did not handle that well at all, I freaked out, was obsessed with finding out the truth and doing things totally unlike me. I had to get away before I made things worse or completely lost it in front of my 6 year old son. I left in hope of saving our marriage, not leaving it.

He then went into why he did all those things, how I made him feel. Neglect, invisible, unloved, the same old speech. I gave back my same old speech, my own depression and struggle, mainly having to do with being away from S 12 hours a day. I asked him, remember when I would come home to take a quick shower? I would cry in the shower, I cried every day because I was so unhappy, not with you, with the situation. He was quiet, but went back to how my withdrawal made HIM feel.

I said, H, the miscommunication between us shows me that I am not able to give you what you need. 3 1/2 years of wanting nothing more than to work things out, you say you didn't feel. I loved you very much, but was not able to adjust well to being a working mom, I had to put you on the back burner, but it was not because I didn't love you and I am sorry you felt that way. I said H, I just don't think we connect or communicate right. Beside that, I needed your support when I was drowning, not being demanded of more. There are always tough times, life is not unicorns and rainbows at all times. I need to know I have someone by my side who can weather those storms with me, not bail on me.

He back peddled a bit, I don't think he expected me to shrug and say, oh well, I tried my best, but that is basically what I did.

He then started to list all the things I did that he didn't like, all the stuff about me that made him so unhappy. I agreed, yes, we see things different, we handle things different, there is no right or wrong. He kept on. That's when my heart started beating, I got tunnel vision and I said no more, I am not going to waste my time listening to what he has complained about 100 times before. All I could hear in my head was no, I am not going back there. Thinking something is wrong with me, that I should be different.

I got up and suggested he go. He said, there you go, shutting down. I said not shutting down, just not going to listen to the same thing I have heard over and over again.

Before he left, I told him I think we should explore what else may be out there for us. He looked pale, totally wiped out from our conversation, face confused and mouth hanging open.

Guys, I am not sure if this is MLC or a guy who has simply fallen out of love. It happens. H is not able to handle much. Having a child was a very difficult adjustment for us. Neither of us did well with it. Now, I can see the toll of facing our failed marriage. It drains him. But I can't keep going on with this.

Of course, my main point of our conversation never got addressed, which is, what are we going to do about our marriage. I will be setting up another chat to go over that.

So basically, me being me makes H very very unhappy. There are too many things about me and my personality that he finds unacceptable and incompatible with. He said himself, too many differences have come up over the years.

I myself don't see myself back with him. No way will I go back to feeling criticised about my parenting and ideas of fun. He just recently shunned me for giving S his water in a little plastic cup. He said, seriously, you still use those with him? I started giving S his water in a glass cup, he said no mommy, I want water in the plastic cup, it's easier to hold. While I snuggled with S last night at bedtime, I had no guilt that a brooding H was waiting in bed, like the old days. No way. I will never go back to that.


Me 48 H 46 S 11
M 2004
BD 8/13
H moved out 2/15
-live in the present, enjoy the beauty around and within you, explore your new future-
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I'm sorry that things turned out the way they did, but you can see he's stuck and the complaints about you are the same over and over again. He's still not willing to look at himself in the mirror and work on himself. Why should you change your entire self to please him. He married you and you most certainly didn't change that much since you said "I do". If he's that unhappy w/you for being the person you are, then he needs to file for a divorce and walk away. You can't live this way indefinitely, or at least that's what he's thinking in the back of his mind (that two of you should continue on as you have been). BTW, I still think he's in MLC from the way he's still stuck in the "blame the spouse".

I think another time to chat is needed, but you need to be prepared for the fact that he's going to avoid the subject of what to do about the marriage and go right back into stating what he doesn't like about you. I hate to say this, but you may, one day, have to be the one to pull the plug on your situation. I don't see him doing it any time soon.

Please try to enjoy your weekend. I know you are frustrated w/the entire situation.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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{{{{{{{MLeigh}}}}}}}

Is there any way you guys would be willing to go to a marital mediator or a marriage counselor ? It seems like it might be helpful if someone was there to guide the conversation a little bit - a neutral party pointing out his being stuck might be a bit of a catalyst.

I dunno ... I see a guy who doesn't want to be divorced but doesn't know what to do to save his marriage so he defaults to the complaint list. Am I wrong? Probably.

And no, you shouldn't have to ever change who you are.

Parenting was hard for us too. We were together for 10 years before we decided to have a family and were so happy when I got pregnant and our son was born, but things changed dramatically. ExMIL interfered to the point of us almost breaking up.

My exh felt I put son first and yes, I admit I did - more than I should have. But I also see that my exh really needed me to be the mother he didn't have and on some level resented me being that mother to our son. It was a painful place for him because he wanted his son to have a great mom, but it certainly highlighted what he didn't have himself.

Sweetheart you know I love you and only want you to be happy. Take a deep breath, do something nice for yourself like a bubble bath or a nice hike. Think deeply about what you want and envision your life five years from now. How does it look? Who do you want to be? What kind of a mom do you want to be? Who is beside you? You will find your answers by going deep inside yourself.

I'm here xoxoxoxo


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
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Definitely he is stuck on past hurts. And it sounds like you are tired of trying/feeling your own hurts.

If you want to try last ditch efforts, when next you talk, I might say to him: "h, from our last conversation, I hear you are very hurt by things from our past. How can I help you heal from these things?"

My suspicion is he won't have a "solution." I suspect he'll continue to vent about things that can't be undone.

If he starts to complain again about things that happened years ago (that you have already explained/already apologized for/can't be undone), I would validate and again say: "I hear you are hurt, what exactly can I do to help you heal?"

Like most people stuck in a loop, he doesn't realize he's stuck. It happened. It can't be changed. It's only insurmountable if he makes it insurmountable. Of course he can't see this.

Pulling away from him only gives him more to complain about and reinforces to him that you aren't "there for him" and "here you go again pulling away." I know it stinks but that "doesn't work," so I'd stop doing that. Try the opposite: asking him for the solution.

Perhaps asking for solutions might nudge him to realize that yes, that all happened. Yes, that was then. What now?

And then, again, only if you want to try as a last ditch effort end with: "well, I am here to help you move forward if you have concrete ways I can help." But unfortunately, he needs to understand that "now is the time to try to heal these rifts as we can't go on like this forever. This is not an ultimatum, more just that it's time to fix this or move on as as we've been stuck here for years. Both routes will take tremendous work in different ways."

At some point we all have have to cook or get out of the kitchen. But maybe you've already thrown down your apron and walked out of the kitchen yourself?


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,301
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Hi MLeigh, that sounded like a tough conversation for you both (((big hugs)))

And as others have said, he does still sound rather stuck on the 'if it wasn't for you, this M would be great' merry-go-round...

Yes, none of us were perfect, but it takes two of us to make a marriage work (or falter) and none of us are faultless.

His does seem to be a rather low burn situation - without the high energy 'running' behaviours that some MLCers show.

The thing is - he is where he is and is thinking what he is thinking. What you do in respect of all of that and how you live your life is up to you.

And I know you will take the high road and live as authentically and compassionately as you are able 'cause that's who you are..

Hope you have a lovely weekend xx


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
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Your sitch has always been the head scratcher for me and that says a bit all things MLC considered.

Personally I think we all come here and do what we humanly can to try and salvage the marriage, then over time and a good amount of mirror work we all change into better and stronger people. The one thing that rings true to me even more so now is the "The old marriage is dead" line ... it is very much true, and honestly for me its not all a bad thing because the old Cali too is dead. TBH I would not even date my MLCr at this point. I read a bit into your refusing to go back to that place with your H ... you are so much stronger now and after all the work we have put in I do not think anyone can blame us for finally demanding better especially when the MLCr really has not done the work nor made much progress comparatively speaking over the past 2/3/4 years.

Like job .. I have thought and even said for some time that you would be the one to move the sitch ... seems your H would be forever comfortable with status quo, and it does appear you are arriving to a point of "Sh$t or get off the pot" as my father would so eloquently put it. We all know when enough is enough, for me I have accepted this new life, its strange and I do find myself at times disappointed with the loss of the family unit but not so much her anymore if that makes any sense as I realized that I allowed portions of the 3 years of my sons life to pass without soaking up every ounce I could being distracted here and there ... I am not going to miss another second due to her crisis.

No one but you can say 'when' ... you just know it deep inside, atleast I did. I am at peace and continue to grow, heal and learn and I wish that for all who are here ... but like all things this too takes time. You are such a strong amazing person I have no doubt you will get to where you need to be regardless of what your H is doing.


M: 48
W: 47
M16 T26-S8
BD Sept13



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