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LALost Offline OP
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Hi all...this is a major question....

here's my history (formerly crw613...now LALost)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...586#Post2734586

Wife is about to do BD#3, and I think ask for D. We have been separated 6 weeks, I separated at her request, we started nesting for our 6 kids, crazy arrangement: we switch off with the kids EVERY NIGHT and move downstairs to a small one bedroom in our apt building alternate nights and then switch off on weekends...i agreed to this with the understanding we were going to try to work on the marriage...

now, wife is about to shoot MC#3 since she feels she is not "being heard" in the room during counseling, feels she is not getting anywhere with counseling, and flew out of the country for 3 days leaving me with the 6 kids.

So here is my 180 - I am ok with her proceeding with asking for divorce and starting the process - but I DO NOT WANT TO DO IT WHILE AGREEING TO THIS RIDICULOUS SEPARATION ARRANGEMENT!

In fact, I am planning on very politely telling her that I am moving back in, and not only that, I am going to move back into the master bedroom, because I have not felt comfortable being thrown out of the bedroom and asked to sleep in the guest bedroom for the last 8 months etc. In fact, I did not cheat on her or do anything. She just feels like she is not in love with me any longer. So - the boundary for me would be this message to her "look, you know i want to make things work, but i also need to take care of myself now, and I have not been able to sleep for almost 8 months, with the separation its been even worse. The reason is I have felt humiliated being in the guest bedroom, so Im going to move into the master, and you should take care of yourself any way you need.

if she needs to leave our bedroom, that is what she should do. I expect she will be very pissed, and maybe go hostile, but SHE IS THE ONE ASKING FOR DIVORCE, and I want to make it clear that I have consistently indicated a faithful willingness to work on the marriage - and in fact bent over backwards to give her the space she needed and demanded over these many months.

We have been to three marriage counselors, they have all agreed my wife is the "indicated patient" not me...in fact, they have all seemed to focus on getting my wife to look in the mirror during therapy, and stop playing the victim and spoiled entitled spouse - but she is completely blocked from being able to do this work.

The point is - im fed up now - in fact, i really feel like I've been a pushover in many ways i was scared of her, didn't want to rock to boat and assert myself, was just wallowing in my own guilt and shame because of how she was treating me. this may have really been the wrong tact - i did not show backbone and stand my ground, forcing her to live with the consequences of her request for separation (i.e. - go ahead and move out if you are not happy)

I have spoken this over with our child psychologist, who liked that i was asserting myself, and said "sure it may impact the kids, but you have to take care of yourself."

I spoke to two spiritual mentors who both thought is was a fine approach, as long as I was very gentle with conveying the message to her I was moving back into the bedroom, and not being vindictive.

Really curious to hear input on this bold move...its pretty much the bottom of the 9th in our marriage so Im not sure I have anything to lose by standing up for myself (and making it clear I'm here to save my marriage and my children who are suffering terribly from her decisions).

but, naturally, and as usual, i am fearful and worried i will upset her and she will just reject me even more or whatever...

Feedback???


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Me 45, W 50
M1 - 1994
D1 - 2000
T-8 M-2.5
No children
M2 (current w)- 2003
T-14 M-14
BD1 - Jan 2016
Sept 7 2016, Piecing
BD2 - Nov 2016, IWAD
Jan 2017, Piecing
D-12, D-10,D-10,D-10,D-9,S-8
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I am new here and don't know anything. Although I'm a lawyer I am not a family lawyer and the laws of every state are different. So I can't offer you anything on the legal perspective and there are certainly cooler heads here on the DB perspective.

But, what if you are wrong? Are you pushing away unnecessarily? Even if you move into the MBR, do you need a declaration about it? Do you need to tie it to her or her actions?

Why not just say this nesting thing is not working well for me. I'm back in the MBR. You are welcome to join me or sleep in the guest room. I hope we can still keep working on the MR (if that is what you want).

I just think declarations and mind reading (from a very recently reformed mind reader) are not a good idea.

I hope things improve for you and the anger subsides. You might want to cool off a bit before you do anything.

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LALost Offline OP
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Thanks so much for your response, I guess what comes to mind is what are declarations (versus boundaries) and mind reading (versus calculating moves)

how were you a mind reader? How did you reform ? My anger is actually pretty controlled, I pray a lot for my wife, learned to do a "step 4" in 12 step world and give up my resentments

The truth is if I don't start asserting myself I think it's over


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Me 45, W 50
M1 - 1994
D1 - 2000
T-8 M-2.5
No children
M2 (current w)- 2003
T-14 M-14
BD1 - Jan 2016
Sept 7 2016, Piecing
BD2 - Nov 2016, IWAD
Jan 2017, Piecing
D-12, D-10,D-10,D-10,D-9,S-8
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 21
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LALost Offline OP
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Also as part of detaching - I'm thinking about reaching out to ex wife #1 just to see her and hope for more closure and clarity on that what're.

I'm not sure it's reopening an old scar. Something tells me it may help me gain perspective on what's happening to me now. It's been 17 years since I spoke to or saw her.

But the thrust of this post is to get feedback on my 180 to move back into Mbr after being essentially thrown out almost 10 months ago.


------
Me 45, W 50
M1 - 1994
D1 - 2000
T-8 M-2.5
No children
M2 (current w)- 2003
T-14 M-14
BD1 - Jan 2016
Sept 7 2016, Piecing
BD2 - Nov 2016, IWAD
Jan 2017, Piecing
D-12, D-10,D-10,D-10,D-9,S-8
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,979
Likes: 33
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In my experience these folks can't handle any kind of criticism and any statement that couples her actions with your response is more likely to be viewed in that way. I think you are being assertive in telling her I've moved back into the MBR. I hope you join me there. I think you are telling her through your actions that your boundary is that you are not giving up your space and are not committing to her plan. I think they understand actions better than words anyway. In my case I've heard a lot of words that never equated with the corresponding action.

I was told earlier today that my bitterness comes across in my post. I can see that. I think anger comes across in yours. My guess would be that if you want to save the marriage, the anger needs to go somewhere else. Assertiveness is an attractive quality, anger is not.

I have been trying to read my H's mind for a long time now, probably years. I can read into anything. I went back and read some posts by BluWave about talking to her H after he came back and being so sure she knew what he was thinking when she had later confirmation that she was completely off base. I think we cling to mind reading because we want control. We want to know what is happening next. If you were raised in a household where you were hypervigilant, as I was, control becomes a means to survival. If I can see the next attack, I can avoid it better. While that may be great for survival in the wild (to have an overactive amygdala churning out flight or fight response), it likely causes great trouble in relationships.

I've done some reading by Pema Chodron, the American Buddhist, who says that it is only when you have lost everything, where you have nothing left, that you are completely free. This is how I am choosing now to view this crazy need for control I have. I want to be a free floating entity who makes the best decision she can in the moment, without thinking she is smarter than everyone else or needing to protect herself by fancying that she knows what will come at her next. I see some of that in your post where you are so confident you know what is coming. Maybe you do or maybe you are dead wrong.

What do you want for you and your kids. They say it here over and over again. I've seen it so many places and now I get it. Be the kind of guy that any woman would want to be married to. He isn't angry, he isn't smug, he doesn't need to control, and he accepts that we are all fallible creatures who carry a lot of baggage and sometimes just need to be able to massively screw up and be forgiven for it.

I wish I had done things differently when my H was in the house. You still have that chance.

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Only you would know whether reaching out to ex #1 would be helpful or dangerous. I guess I just question what you could possibly learn from it. I am nowhere near the person I was 17 years ago. Either is my H. Information can be good, but it is also sometimes advisable to let a sleeping dog lie. Seems like you have enough on your plate right now.

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LALost Offline OP
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Yes, amazing what a few hours does when you can see you warped your thinking is. I guess in the end of the day, I don't trust myself. That's it. Especially why I'm posting here...

I hear you on the anger, it's definitely there. I guess it's also a question of at some level wanting to assert ,yield for my own sanity- sleeping in the guest bedroom was humiliating...guess I need to ask how I will feel with wife being forced to sleep there now if she so chooses - but I must say this WAS THE CLEAR ADVICE I saw in some of the reading on mlc. The spouse asking for space needs to find a way to take care of themselves and get the space RATHER THAN ASK THE LBS to move out to accommodate them.

I'm clearly in so much pain today. Can't get out of bed. Going to get a massage to relax or something. Taking my six kids away for weekend to stay with a friend. Wife texts me overseas on her vacation "I totally trust you but...where are the kids sleeping at your friends"

So the drams begins.


------
Me 45, W 50
M1 - 1994
D1 - 2000
T-8 M-2.5
No children
M2 (current w)- 2003
T-14 M-14
BD1 - Jan 2016
Sept 7 2016, Piecing
BD2 - Nov 2016, IWAD
Jan 2017, Piecing
D-12, D-10,D-10,D-10,D-9,S-8
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,979
Likes: 33
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There doesn't have to be drama. Just give her a nice response about where the kids are sleeping. I wish my H showed a consistent, parental interest in my children. Instead I just see the stabs of interest when he is presumably bored or lonely.

I think this board probably exists because none of us are trustworthy. Voicing it here is better than voicing it to her. Life goes on my friend. With or without her. Get out of bed and make it a productive and happy time with your kids. They are the real victims here, not you. Give them the luxury of the best childhood they can have while having to survive a home with parents who are not always able to act like parents.

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Welcome to the MLC Forum. I'm sorry you are here, but you'll discover a lot of wonderful people post all over the Forum, including this one. Read as much a you can, take away what you can use and leave the rest behind.

I'm pasting in Cadet's Welcome Thread info. Please read the threads because you will discover a wealth of info.

Welcome to this board.

The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy book by MWD,
Divorce Busting is also an excellent book.
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.

It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)

I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.

This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.

I would start with the going dark link.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post50956

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2537289#Post2537289

Resources thread(last post only)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2592296#Post2592296

Things you should know as the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2701017#Post2701017

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Doormat Tactics
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1942444#Post1942444

Standing vs leaving
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1966340&page=1

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

Musings from AmyC
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2253741#Post2253741

MLC Signs
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2177869#Post2177869

The Final Stages Withdrawal to Acceptance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2074403&page=1

Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.

I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources.
You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.

Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!

Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.

I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.

Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you!
Start your homework assignments.
Something to DO while you are on moderation.
GAL.
Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath.
In general take care of your self first.

Detach the single most important thing to DO.

Your H/W has given you a gift
THE GIFT OF TIME
use it wisely

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
_________________________
Me-62, D30,S29


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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I agree with helies. Actions speak louder than words. From your posts you sound more comfortable talking than doing. Do you always try to explain yourself to your W? Is that helping or hurting your situation?

When my W asked me to move out of the MBR I gave her the I'm not moving out but if you need more space feel free to do so. We're both still there and yes, still having sex. She even moved my stuff out and I moved it back. We never spoke about it.

Re relaxation. I love massages but think that very high intensity exercise does more for releasing anger and promoting fitness. What's your exercise program?


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
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