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Surv1ve #2743068 05/12/17 05:45 AM
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Survive, you are doing such a great job. I agree with Coly. I think H has to figure out for himself that EX/OM has an agenda that is not in anyone's best interest but his own. In the same way that you do not him to logic you into a response, you cannot do the same to him. Thankfully the divorce process takes time and tends to bring out the worst in people. If you can hold your head high and let them do their own thing, H will very likely see the manipulation that is occurring. Seems like he is already taking note. Definitely be the lighthouse. The calm in the storm.

OwnIt #2743124 05/12/17 10:36 AM
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That's such a great point, own it. I cannot reason w him right now. I have to back off and let him come to his own conclusions. And proceed w dignity as we move forward (while also dragging my feet) to show my calm and not contribute to whatever drama emerges.


BD#1: "marriage is over" 9/14/2016
H in basement 24/7 with EX/OM
BD#2: 3/20/2017 I plan to move out "soon" I LRT
me: 42, H, 41, EX/OM, 37
D 10, Son 7
M to H = 20 years
EX/OM moved in 10 years ago
Surv1ve #2744986 05/29/17 09:14 AM
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Survive, are you there? How are things going?

OwnIt #2745393 06/01/17 02:57 PM
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Hi OwnIt. Thanks for asking. I realized that I've sort of taken a break or checked out or something.

Things are okay?

There has definitely been a lot more positive energy between me and H, so much so that I've wondered if he's really had a MLC or if it's about to end. He's been addressing small hurts with me, which is still really hard for him to do, and I've been pulling out my hand validate cheat sheet. I try not to bring up relationship topics or the question of us, and that seems to be going okay. I've gotten snippy a few times, and I need to reign that in because he takes it really personally. He's much more interested in spending casual time with me when we're both in the house and he's rescheduled our weekly rock climbing when something has interfered. I'm really resisting the urge to have a CHECK IN or to ASK HOW WE ARE DOING and rush things along. I need to notice that I am getting results and that they've been slow and will probably continue to be slow. And, that pressing is going to send me backwards.

No scary papers have arrived. I have no explanation for the lack of scary papers and I don't ask. I have no desire to open that box. EX/OM actually got a job this week and it's the first job that EX/OM has had in a long time. I initially worried it might expedite things but it doesn't seem to so far. I'm trying really hard to make a big fuss over it and celebrate the job and be extra supportive, as I know part of the story EX/OM has is that EX/OM has to be the primary childcare provider and default parent and that EX/OM sacrificed to put me through school and it's my turn.

Also, and I don't know what to make of this exactly, but EX/OM has a new girlfriend. I sort of can't believe it. I came home one day with H from rock climbing, and a pair of shoes were in the foyer and I remembered that a family friend was over hanging out... except, when I went inside, the body language was too close and then EX/OM walked them out to their car. When I asked what that was, EX/OM gushed about the new love interest and how it just sort of happened... H is feeling worried about it and anxious, and I'm pretty uncertain what EX/OM is thinking but also trying to remember that EX/OM is still newly on testosterone and has the drive that most teenage boys has that H isn't able to meet right now. Any thoughts from the board on the impacts of THAT monkey wrench into poly MLC greatly appreciated.

I know I am not supposed to snoop, and I had successfully stopped snooping for like a month but I did (SORRY!) recently peek on the conversation between H and the one friend he usually vents to about me. The friend probably had a MLC and left his wife and kids for someone in the US and keeps encouraging H to just move on already, it'll be so much easier. In their conversation, friend had given H a lawyer's name and keeps bugging H to call the lawyer and H is avoiding the question or saying he hasn't gotten around to it yet. Also, I have to not do that again because if I get caught, it's going to ruin the trust I've built.

There is more warmth overall in all directions. I feel like they're both softening. And, I'm trying not to let any of that change my behaviors or show my hope. I actually turned down H to hang out the other day, which was pretty much the first time ever.

I have been:

Apologizing for missteping and causing tension or conflict, even when I think I am 5% to blame
Being nondefensive
Validating like a pro
Following through on all of my chores
Being a great parent
Looking for ways to remind H of the needs he has stated that he lets lapse (wanting a clean garage space, his man cave and asking why he's allowed it to get filled with junk and then initiating a clean out session/take to storage session) or offering to support him with chores so he can take time with friends. This stuff gets loud appreciations and is not taken for granted.

H is sharing a little bit more of his internal world with me. That's tricky because I want to hear, but I don't want to pry, and I definitely don't want to hear the not pretty stuff.

It's been two months since he said he was moving out and it doesn't look like he's going anywhere. EX/OM either. H has actually expressed genuine concern about me on a few occasions when I was having a rough moment unrelated to house stuff. It seems that his fear of me is abating...

One day at a time, though. It's a long rollercoaster?


BD#1: "marriage is over" 9/14/2016
H in basement 24/7 with EX/OM
BD#2: 3/20/2017 I plan to move out "soon" I LRT
me: 42, H, 41, EX/OM, 37
D 10, Son 7
M to H = 20 years
EX/OM moved in 10 years ago
Surv1ve #2745400 06/01/17 03:39 PM
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Wow, a complicated situation becomes more complicated. I wonder if the new behaviors by EX/OM are contributing to the thaw in your H? Or perhaps you are just doing a really good job of DBing. Sounds like it.

I have been thinking myself about what DBing has done for me. Long term who knows, but in the short term I think it has tremendously calmed things between H and me. I know it is not just me. He seems much more stable now and as a result is making more of an effort with the kids (which at the end of the day is what I most want). Could be where he is in his journey or his "happiness" with OW2, but I think it is that things between us are not confrontational.

I have become a little hung up about the scary papers myself, though in truth I'm not afraid of them. I just don't like the uncertainty, but at the same time I realize that it is the uncertainty that is giving time for that moment of reflection I asked him for before he went down this path.

Sounds like you are in a good place and need to keep doing what you are doing. I don't imagine your H can be too thrilled about someone new on the scene. In time that may turn the tide in your favor.

OwnIt #2745404 06/01/17 04:00 PM
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H also said he's having some challenges with EX/OM's transition. EX/OM is definitely looking more manly these days... muscles emerging in the forearm, hands widening, has now shaved twice (but like a 14 year old that is eager to shave a single chin hair). The papers are scary, for sure, but I guess I'm still hung up on the weirdness of EX/OM possibly initiating the process, though it seems like they haven't.

What has DB'ing done for me? A lot. I'm focusing on responding rather than emotionally reacting in all of my relationships, and that's a great framework. How can I respond calmly, in a way to achieve mutual goals, in a way that honors the person in front of me that I care about rather than the fear my amygdala is sending up?

H is slowly sharing a bit of his emotional process. He talked to me yesterday about something I did to upset him (he thought I was snippy) and I received it in a way I'm proud of and thanked him profusely for bringing it up before it was a big deal. After he talked about how scary it was for him to bring it up, I asked what I can do to make it easier or safer for him and he said, "Nothing you're not already doing. I hold a lot of accountability here, and I have to trust that my needs matter, that you'll care about them, and that if the conversation doesn't go well, I can leave. I have to remember I'm only responsible for my end of the conversation and if that if you don't take it well, that's probably not my fault."

Like, whoah. But, I take the earlier bringing up of small things as micro tests of me and as evidence that I'm doing a good job in trying to be his ally. I feel like our friendship has greatly improved and that there is more easiness between us.

As to the new person, we've always had open relationships but I agree the timing is super weird. I really LIKE this new person, too, and I have to admit I was worried about what EX/OM might be saying about me but then remembered that if I like the person so much, I have to trust her to take that with a grain of salt. EX/OM is spending every Monday with her and also finding excuses to visit her at other times (EX/OM got the new person's help to organize a gift for my daughter's birthday which was yesterday). EX/OM has agreed not to introduce the new person to the children and that's really all I care about right now in regards to that dynamic. I think I'm expected to be jealous or something (or was expected to be jealous) but I don't care in terms of my personal jealousy.

I found an old diary entry in where... I'd almost have to share it. H was really distant throughout my pregnancy and he came home after a camping trip with EX/OM and he was this present, loving, amazing human being of a partner and it was this moment in time. I wrote about how hurt I'd been by the pattern of distance and how he talked about scary my neediness was... let me go get that paragraph, at least.

--

But, New H stayed. He held me and kissed me and stroked my face, and it went on and on and on. Somewhere in there, I asked him, "Okay, where the hell is this coming from? It's wonderful, but ... where is it COMING from?"

Some magical being must've been doing some installation work on the lines between H's emotions and his voice, because despite all odds against it, I got an insightful, articulate answer. It went like this:

I had a lot of quiet time in that forest to think and nothing Èto distract me. When Danielle broke down this weekend, I was able to take really good care of her. And, I realized that I don't do that with you. I love you, but I haven't been very loving towards you for these last few years. It's because I had to give up so much of myself to take care of you while you were going through the sexual abuse stuff, and you pushed me so far away and rejected me so often. It isn't that I"m punishing you for hurting me, it's that I've been terrified to love you that way again. I had to shut down that fierce, fierce love of you to be okay, and I've had it turned off for such a long time I didn't even know it was missing. So, you've come to me, demanding to be loved like that, and I had no idea what you were talking about... but the way I love EX/OM and the way I love you are so different, and being in love with her, I can see what's missing between you and me, and I'm going to do everything I can to fix it. I'm sorry I haven't taken good care of you, but I block up when you're needy, and you've been needier than ever since you've been pregnant, and I've pulled away even further. I'm not going to do that to you anymore, I'm sorry.

These past 10 days, I've had my husband. Or, the one I want. There has been fierce love and kissing and tenderness and, when I've cried, he's been *present*.

-- It broke my heart in some ways to read that, to realize that we have BEEN HERE before and that I heard some of the things I have had to learn AGAIN way back then. How terrifying my neediness is for him. I also understand his rejection of me after a period of intense personal healing differently now, as his first experience of being engulfed by my emotions. In some ways, him falling in love with EX/OM allowed us to heal some of our wounds so it's crappy that we're here now, with EX/OM and I on opposite sides of something.

That was written 15 days before m D11 was born in 2006 and I feel like I am now in groundhog day only its is so much worse and so much harder. The lessons I learn here, though, I will not forget again. I am keeping this this time.


BD#1: "marriage is over" 9/14/2016
H in basement 24/7 with EX/OM
BD#2: 3/20/2017 I plan to move out "soon" I LRT
me: 42, H, 41, EX/OM, 37
D 10, Son 7
M to H = 20 years
EX/OM moved in 10 years ago
Surv1ve #2745406 06/01/17 04:19 PM
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Did you ever read any of the Malcolm Gladwell books? In one I recall him saying it takes 7 errors for a plane to crash. Looking back, I can think of the many times these issues arose for us and my response to them. Don't want to hijack so I'll stick on my thread.

OwnIt #2751189 07/14/17 02:17 PM
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Survive, are you still checking in? Just wondering and hoping that things are going well for you and that is why we haven't heard from you.

OwnIt #2752850 07/24/17 01:46 PM
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Ah, thanks OwnIt. I'm not sure what I'm doing.

Still no papers. But, EX/OM's lawyer contacted my lawyer. I got the email today. H still hasn't seen a lawyer. I'm going to delay a few days in responding to my lawyer and I'm not going to let on at all that I've been contacted. I think that'll drive EX/OM crazy.

Things with H are a lot better. I actually made an appointment to talk to a Divorce Busting Coach on Wednesday after I saw the email as I'm so confused.

H is still super anxious at time and he is definitely depressed, but he's owning a lot more of hit [censored]. He actually set a super healthy boundary with me yesterday. I wrote this in my semi private journal (locked to a very few super close facebook friends)
---

And, there are moments like this...

I suggest we do this family cooking project of loading ingredients into ziplock bags to slow cook later. Everyone jumps right on it. I am somehow the person "in charge" and find myself organizing and directing... which is such an easy position for me to take when groups need that direction and a place that can give H/EXOM an excuse to blame me for being "bossy."

I read the instructions thoroughly.... and so...
Me: It says that we should put the meat in last in every bag.
Me: (Sees Jim putting the meat in first...)
Me: It says we should put the meat in last in every bag.
H: (Super calmly, gently, and with what sounds like genuine curiosity): Are you giving me information to make my own decision or are you telling me what I need to do?
Me: (Surprised and I pause to think but I'm not feeling attacked or criticized). That's a good question. I guess it's my anxiety because I like to follow directions, but since you're doing it and I want your help, I guess I'm giving you information to make your own decision.

While out with a friend, I sent Jim a text telling him how well I thought he handled that in that he communicated he felt intruded upon and gently asked me to clarify and that it was such a great piece of boundary setting. We debrief when I got home and had a pretty good conversation about boundaries broadly and what we've learned in the last 6 months.

H: I realized that if I just did what you were telling me to do, I was going to spend the rest of the day pissed off at you.
Me: But, you must have realized that pretty quickly, because there was no anger in your voice and it was so easy for me to hear and not get defensive.
Me: Yeah, I'm learning things.
Me: We both are. We've really done so much learning together in these last few months

-----------

There is such warmth and comraderie sometimes, though he's still super afraid of me and of my "neediness" as much as I've been trying to be more independent. But, there has also been a lot of laughter. We went scuba diving last Friday and cried laughing about emerging from the water and being swarmed by mosquitos. I try to avoid R conversations, but I notice I've been instigating more "talks" lately, though they go over really well and I always keep them really short. Mostly about things I'm learning and staying far, far away from analyzing him (outloud and trying hard not to do it in my head).

My plan:

1. Do not acknowledge contact from the lawyer. That will surprise both of them.
2. Continue to insist all negotiations re separation (weirdly driven by EX/om) occur through the lawyer.
3. Stall. Stall. And, stall some god damned more.
4. Keep doing my mirror work and working hard on building a friendship with H.

I'm so curious what will happen when EX/OM is being forced to see or talk to a lawyer or face this from EX/OM. Like, I still don't think he actually wants this (he's definitely super ambivalent and sometimes coaches me on how to get along with EX/OM mostly because I'm more flexible, I think).

I see tension creeping into the relationship between the two of them. And, who can blame EX/OM, really. H says, whenever EX/OM asks, that H wants to move out and be away from me, but he hasn't done a single thing to make that happen. I guess I expect EX/OM will start pressuring. I try to be nice and kind and make friends with EX/OM but EX/OM is even more stubborn than I am.

The one year anniversary of the BD is not too far away. Honestly, I'm tempted to throw a freagin' party. It's been a year of intense growth and he asked me to move out the next day and yet here we still are.

Feedback SO MUCH APPRECIATED.


BD#1: "marriage is over" 9/14/2016
H in basement 24/7 with EX/OM
BD#2: 3/20/2017 I plan to move out "soon" I LRT
me: 42, H, 41, EX/OM, 37
D 10, Son 7
M to H = 20 years
EX/OM moved in 10 years ago
Surv1ve #2752865 07/24/17 03:41 PM
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I'm not surprised it is EX/OM leading the show. Generally the one who wants it the most makes it happen. I guess legally it is odd since you are married to the one that is not pushing this.

You are amazing. How you can keep a cool head and be appreciative of his progress in the midst of that chaos is extraordinary. I am failing miserably at that. Ugh.

What was the gist of the lawyer to lawyer contact?

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