My Story

[kml]

If the kids are not yet aware, I'd go for the sake of one last holiday with everyone. However, it seems you have some kind of issue with his parents (as evidenced by needing both partners to help you handle your anxiety last time you went?). If so, I suppose you could just tell the kids a fib like you have a headache or some such and let them all go off without you.

Holidays without your kids sadly are a part of divorce.

[Kyh]

What do you want to do and what's best for your kids? Can you go and be prepared to not have any support? I had a similar situation when W dropped a bomb on me just before we were supposed to go to step in laws for Christmas. It was awkward but I get along w/them very well so I didn't have that issue. Step mil knew something was wrong and I ended up talking to her a lot at the beginning of everything.

I think either way is understandable, I've been there, but if I could go without the need for support and focus on myself and kids I'd go. Show them it's not you and enjoy your kids. Don't take that experience away from yourself.

[Surv1ve]

The kids know that there is "something" but they don't know the details. I still think they'd be shocked if there was an actual splitting of houses, but I could be wrong. I'm still hoping to never find out for sure =).

The anxiety at the in law's house relates to being "normal" and not having them aware and, at the same time, things feel so different and being afraid to have an big emotion in a space that isn't my home. In the last month, I've settled in and think I would be more likely to get through it able to project okay and maybe even feel okay. I'd probably also book fun time with a friend for after to make sure I had a safe place to land.

I've been pretty tempted to talk to my in laws about what's going on because there have been no divorces in his family and I think they'd be horrified, but I'm not sure that's a good move or not. I also wonder if his dad had an MLC as they are similar and how he got through it. But, I guess I feel like it isn't my place? And, I don't know if it would be helpful or not.

My latest and newest questions: My H is doing the usual MLC thing of telling the OW (or, in this case, the EX/OM ) one thing and me another. I know it's his ambivalence and that he's probably not a real person with ANYONE. I think EX/OM still takes him at face value, and he tells EX/OM that he is going to move out or whatever he says. Goodness knows. Anyway, EX/OM keeps trying to approach me directly about a settlement to which I keep saying, "I am not ready to talk about that. I would go see a lawyer if I were you."

I go out with EX/OM on Tuesdays to a climbing gym. This is supposed to be pro bonding time. EX/OM asked me directly why we weren't talking settlement yet since BD#2 on March 20th. For better or worse, I said, "By the fact that you ask me that, I can see that H is still telling us two different things. No one should be surprised by that." That's as much sh*t as I want to stir, though. I'm not sure how to navigate my relationship with EX/OM in trying to keep the peace, be willing to repair the damage between us, and not allow EX/OM to push me on this. I also continue to expect H to direct any anger received from EX/OM on to me and so I make myself scarce after anything tense with EX/OM. I believe that time is definitely my friend and, while H might move out now if forced, the more he sees the new me, the more confused he is. He is responding well to my GAL and semi LTR and is way more relaxed. H and I had a really nice time together on Sunday climbing. I am actively appreciating his house contributions and he seems to puff up each time. I know he wants to be liked by me and seen as "good".

I still am terrible at turning down invitations from H or cutting the night short. It's hard, but I need to work on it. I hope it counts that I make so much effort to be out of the house before he wakes up (to the gym!) and to be focused on the kids during the afternoon/evening.

Breathing.

Thoughts on navigating my relationship with the EX/OM definitely welcome. Part of me thinks it's probably great if they go anger bomb/pressure the husband but, I guess, in the end, what EX/OM does is up to EX/OM and how H responds is also not mine. All I can do is try to figure out my path and walk it.

[Surv1ve]

So, here I am again. I think I may need a coaching session if people have recommendations, as it is so hard to navigate.

EX/OM keeps trying to push me on the separation talk. I don't want to engage in it because it's a super negative conversation with bombs. I keep encouraging the EX/OM to go and get a lawyer and leave me out of it.

EX/OM tried again on Monday and I said my usual "can't, get a lawyer, too much, need time." So, we have family meeting on Wednesdays where we used to discuss logistics and emotional issues. After BD#1, I cut the emotional out because it felt like 2 against 1 (well, it IS 2 against 1). So, this Wednesday, just before the meeting started, H slumped in his chair and looked tired. I have come to recognize that body language as an expression of anxiety. I asked him if something was wrong and he said all was fine. Then EX/OM comes in and I could tell from the way they positioned themselves in the room that there was a planned attack coming. I calmed went through the logistics and tried to close the meeting down, as usual, by saying, "Did I miss anything?"

H says, "Yeah, EX/OM has been talking about wanting to move out for a long time and we need to have this conversation."

MAY DAY MAY DAY MAY DAY

1. Against my stated boundary re: emotional topics before bed. I did originally suggest we find another time for emotional topics and when no one scheduled it, I left that alone.
2. I have explicitly many times said I want you to go see a lawyer.
3. H obviously lied to me.
4. COORDINATED ATTACK.

I immediately said, "I did not agree to this conversation and I am feeling ambushed. I will be going to my room now."

But, the next day, I woke up super angry. So I went to the gym. And, I was still angry so I called H and wanted to set boundaries. He asked me what the barriers to having that conversation were and I told him that 1) we have unfinished conversations 2) I can't have that conversation with both of them 3) I don't trust him and I would be a fool to trust him so he can either earn my trust or we go through lawyers because his behaviour has just not been trustworthy. He seemed pretty horrified at the idea of going through lawyers, and I just shrugged and said, "I deserve to feel safe, and I am not going to put myself in a vulnerable situation where you can manipulate me and bully me into a financially difficult situation." That conversation went ok and he wants to talk for a bit on Monday. I'm scared but there was a commitment to keep it low intensity. And, he did say, "I only wanted to talk about if we still need to separate in 6 months what that might look like." So, there's a crumb of hope in there (IS LTR WORKING???!) but I also wouldn't put it past him to manipulate me to get me to show up. He, of course, also was interfering in my relationship with EX/OM who brought my refusal to H and then H was willing to escalate it and I told him to stay out of my relationship with EX/OM.

I also tried to set boundaries with EX/OM about my explicit "I cannot" and their use of H to bring it forward again. They basically said they've been waiting a long time to have that conversation and that they would bring it up whenever they felt like it. So, I wrote them both an instant message that said I was re-explicitly stating a boundary, legal channels are available, I am unwilling to be engaged in this conversation re: separation and that I need time and a sense of safety. I then wrote that I would be documenting any further violations of this explicit boundary as a form of harassment. I mean, a boundary needs to have consequences and the consequences can't be that I run to my room and away from family space all the time.

So, H is "mad at me" and thinks I was "too firm" and "too uncooperative". EX/OM is in a tizzy and slumped out the front door this morning like someone died and then H made a big deal of going to the front door and giving them the most supportive "poor baby" hug ever. Make me want to vomit. UGH.

I tried really hard to pretend like all was well and went about my life next to H as he was working from home and I started work at 1, but I was feeling pretty anxious and having a hard time. When he is angry with me, I want to crumble.

Did I do okay? Do you have any suggestions? God, this is so hard to navigate.

[Coly23]

Hey Surv1ve, sorry you are having a tough time at the moment.

IMHO, the more annoyed you get with both H and Ex/OM the closer together you push them. Sending that text to them both about boundary setting has given them the opportunity to form a united front against you as experienced when H ran after Ex/OM to comfort them. I think you are inadvertently causing a you against them situation.

I would pull way back in interactions with Ex/OM and maybe concentrate on your relationship with H. I think you are going to have to start accepting that H will move out and talk to him about what this will look like. Only talk with H about this and then he and Ex/OM can talk about their own logistics.

Unfortunately Ex/OM is going for the woe is me sympathy card and you are playing right into their hands.

((Surv1ve))

[Surv1ve]

Thanks, Coly. I definitely appreciate the feedback. I mostly try to play nice with EX/OM to demonstrate that I'm "not the bad guy" and that's why I keep the shared activities with them.

I haven't said I'm unwilling to talk logistics, I've said I'm unwilling to discuss finances and custody without a lawyer. The first time H brought up separation, he threatened to prevent me from accessing my non-bio kid was a terrible threat with no foundation in law. I just don't want to allow him to push my buttons in such a sensitive situation. I can't stop them, but I also don't want to "poison" our already teetering relationship with these talks that will likely be awful.

I definitely don't want an us/them situation and I thought I was doing okay but was just so stunned when they coordinated to trap me into a conversation. And, I have no idea how to handle the move out convo with H.

Thank you for responding Coly. It is so confusing to try to figure out how to navigate.

[Surv1ve]

Hello everyone,

I will likely use this space for journaling some and I love all and any feedback. I'm also trying to pop over and read other people's threads, but I also have so much homework to do.

Easter went okay. I went. I tried more of those boundaries with consequences things and I told EX/OM that if they were rude to me at H's parents house or told a story that cast me in a bad light, I would address it immediately right where we were. H got a littler stressed but EX/OM actually stated they appreciated boundaries. During the actual visit, EX/OM mostly hid upstairs and did homework, which was fine. I felt lonely a lot during the day but I tried to project calm and then H and I went climbing that night (and knowing that we would got me through the day). Interestingly enough, H was offered a free hockey playoff ticket to go with his dad and his uncle to that night's hockey game and he declined it without hesitation. I was sure he would cancel our afterplans, which were helping me to cope. When I thanked him later for it, he was quick to tell me that he realized all the talking and negotiating he would have to do to go to that game and the hassle wasn't worth it. Often, when I try to show appreciation, he finds a way to tell me that it actually wasn't something nice he was doing FOR ME. But, I persist.

And, a community member died suddenly last week. Someone whose presence has made our family's existence just that much easier. From that moment, I asked H for care and I journalled the below:

I asked H for care while all full of emotion with the reality of mortality staring at me. He freaked out and had a panic attack. Then, he stomped around the house and he huffed and he puffed and then told me he was still thinking about it. I went upstairs and I waited and finally came down for supper.

He essentially said he couldn't. I mean, part of me wanted to ask him to move out on the spot. What kind of person is this?

ME: You always say you want to be my best friend. So, act like it. Here's your chance to do something. Show up for me.
H: I want to. I want to, but I can't.
ME: Somewhere in there is the H that loves me.
H: I believe that too. Believing that he's in there somewhere is one of the few things that keeps me from just packing up and moving (his parent's house) I want to be able to show up for you.
ME: Tell me about wanting to...
H: You're hurting. It has nothing to do with me. It's hard to watch and it falls into old patterns. I wish I cared.
ME: Did you just say that you don't care?
H: Yeah, I am not in touch with caring.
ME: Wow, that must be hard.
H: I don't understand your comment.
ME: I have care and compassion for you, and I still make sense to me. You must wonder what is wrong with you...
H: (cries) Yeah, am I a psychopath?
ME: Yes, you don't make sense to you. That must hurt.
H: (cries and nods)
ME: And, part of you hates me for that.
H: No, I hate myself.
ME: Sure, but being around me reminds you that don't recognize yourself.
H: Yes, that.
ME: That must be really, really difficult. God. How can you stand it?
H: (cries some more).
ME: Let's go back to our lives, then, and take some space and watch some TV together.
So, we're going to watch some Santa Clara diet together. You guys, this is bananas. And, still, sometimes I get to see the human that's buried in there. The pain must be unreal.

What do people make of that exchange? Did I leave the ranks of the LTR/180 to ask for care in the face of death? Should I be hopeful we his response in any way? I thought I did a really good job of demonstrating care, compassion and acceptance of his reality and tried to show appreciation for him sharing it with me, as he obviously knew it was an awful things to say.

One day at a time, right?

[OwnIt]

What I am about to say is said with tremendous respect and admiration. You are obviously a wickedly smart person who is very in touch with her feelings and emotions. I think you are dealing with someone who is nowhere near your level in those departments. What you have said makes complete sense. I'm guessing that the problem is that he leaves these exchanges feeling like you overwhelmed him and pushed him to do things he didn't want to. I can out argue my H any day and I kept him around for years by doing it. What I couldn't and didn't stop was the resentment that he was building up. Now I believe he is absolutely terrified to talk to me. I think you need to follow the DB rules and stop initiating these R talks no matter how they are disguised. Give him the space he needs to reach his own conclusions. Stop trying to tell him how to think or feel. You may be "right" but ultimately they are his feelings.

[job]

You need to stop those relationship talks. He's not ready to listen to anything you have to say right now. Give him plenty of space and time to figure things out. I know you want to shake him until he comes to his senses, but nothing is going to work. This is his journey to make and unfortunately, you are just along for the ride...

OwnIt is absolutely correct...leave him to it. Detach a bit more and continue working on you and walking the path. The less you try to rationalize w/him, the better. Why? You can't rationale w/someone who is operating on pure emotions.

Continue posting and come here to vent, etc.

[Surv1ve]

Okay, so this is where I demonstrate my ongoing newbie-ness. Thank you both to job and ownit for your feedback, but I am wondering if you would be willing to be more explicit about how this was entering into an R talk? Was it because I was leading? I thought I was demonstrating acceptance or him? I really appreciate the feedback, but I think I need a bit more clarity.

Last night, H and I went rockclimbing which still seems to be a safe activity for us. I fell on my first climb and injured myself. God, the anxiety on top of the pain because I know part of his story is that he is always expected to caretake me so, as I'm hyperventilating with pain, I'm also freaking out about the potential vulnerability here. I told him to keep bouldering while I got the staff to help me with ice, advil, etc and then called my doctor's office and got advice about how to manage. I said, "Go climb. I can be uncomfortable here or I can be uncomfortable somewhere else. I can sort this out." The doctor advised me that I could wait until the morning to go to emerg so H and I got some beer and nachos (while I rested my arm on ice) and then I got myself to bed, etc. I'm sitting here in emerg (alone) remembering last year, in late march, when I got a terrible infection and I communicated to him that yes, he does have to sit with me in emerg, while I wait for 10 hours, especially as they had to do internal ultrasounds. This injury isn't nearly as emotionally tender, but I'm still stunned by the difference a year makes.