I haven't poked around this board much, so I hope there is room for my story and I can find some mentors/guidance.
I am a queer woman and our relationship structure has been a poly triad for the last 10 years. I have been married to my legal husband (D) for 20 years and the other person (L), a former partner of mine, has been with us for 10 years. There was a split between myself and L last January after a major rupture. D was trying to split himself between both of us.
I came home last September and D gave me a bomb drop and told me he only wanted to be with L. This came out of nowhere for me. I was able to ask him to keep the door open and give a chance to repair, and he reluctantly agreed to leave it open a crack.
The MLC paradigm fits when I read it. L is sort of like the OW. It's complicated in that I condoned that relationship and we all live together.
I love D very much. The last 6 months has found me doing all the wrong things: crying hysterically, pleading, pointing to our great history, telling him that I think he's harming the kids. D has been angry, projecting so much on to me, saying the problems have been enormous for years, it's been all about me forever, living with me is just to hard, it's all my fault, etc. His anger is enormous and bursts out everywhere.
We agreed to have a quiet celebration of our 20th anniversary this past Sunday and, at the end of it, my spidey senses told me something was wrong and I was dumb enough to ask outright if he was planning to re bomb drop me and tell me he planned to move out in the next couple of days. Yes, he was. He says he knows that his block against intimacy is never going to change. He just KNOWS it.
What I find ironic about this is that maybe 2 weeks ago, I found my feet. Like, found my feet and felt grounded and detached and could let him be crazy and moody and depressed and not let it reflect on my self esteem. I started dodging his bombs, the ones he would use after a nice time with me to start a fight. As soon as I felt sane again, it seems, he decided he needs to move out.
And, I argued against it and I told him that he was just getting into his work and I could live with him moving out if we were both doing our work and felt we weren't compatible. I have been doing my work -- you have no idea. Realizing the ways in which I've manipulated to get my needs met, my pursuing behaviours, my high emotionality... so much self learning. But, I am growth oriented and desperately want to stay married. He is avoidant personality and emotional work is so new to him.
So, L is pressuring him, like any OW, to get on with it and move out and sometimes approaches me directly to discuss a separation agreement. I dodge that, but I am trying to maintain a peaceful home environment and not give L any fodder to make demands or upset the peace because, in this moment, he chooses L and I know it. He chooses L because L is an avoidant and never brings forward emotions and he thinks life will be easier. I think it's a fantasy. They've never had a relationship without my presence, and I think so much of what has united them in the last 6 months is their shared projection against me.
In the meantime, D is "thinking" about my request for us to do our work before he moves out. He hasn't gotten back to me (he told me he was moving out on Sunday), and I haven't asked. I did a full 180 with a semi transparent last resort. I told him I was giving him back the reigns and was going to work on expecting nothing. I have proceeded to make a self care plan, exercise plan, and go along as if everything is great. I actually do feel pretty great a lot of the time because I think I've come a long way towards detaching and working on creating my own happiness. D actually commented on Monday morning, after he told me he was moving out, that he "has to admit, you've been a rockstar these last couple of weeks in a way you've never, ever been in terms of managing your own emotions and taking personal accountability." I am just trying to do more of the same.
So, major questions:
1. Any advice on how I handle my relationship with L right now ? We're civil much of the time, do some shared activities and shared parenting. I mostly want to keep them out of my relationship with D and keep the peace. I don't know how to respond to their pressure about moving forward. It's obvious that D didn't tell L that he told me he's "thinking about it" or L wouldn't ask me that question directly. 2. How do I approach any requests for me to engage in a separation process, mediation process around splitting finances. Do I deflect? Do I tell them to talk to my lawyer? How do I manage this without having the two of them against me, giving them any reason to project more on to me, or whatever? 3. How dark do I go? I told D I wasn't going to see his physical affection (i've gotten morning and evening hugs and that's it. He's been sleeping in another room) or his attention. We've been going out once a week to do something fun together, but I know he experienced that as pressure and I'm trying to remove any reason that he can have to direct his anger at me in hopes he'll realize his issues have nothing to do with me. 4. I have a date tonight. We're poly so this isn't a huge deal. I like this person, and I"m going to keep myself occupied. How do I handle this within the house? They've both been hoping I'll meet someone (to assauge their own guilt?) and I think it's a great opportunity to project my own confidence and happiness, but I"m not sure what's the best way.
Thanks all. I know the polyamory stuff might be new here, but please be kind to me. It's rough enough in mid life crisis land and limbo land, especially with the OW character in my house, so please =)
Thanks and looking forward to your kind input
Last edited by job; 07/30/1809:47 PM. Reason: Changed subject line
BD#1: "marriage is over" 9/14/2016 H in basement 24/7 with EX/OM BD#2: 3/20/2017 I plan to move out "soon" I LRT me: 42, H, 41, EX/OM, 37 D 10, Son 7 M to H = 20 years EX/OM moved in 10 years ago
Welcome to the MLC Forum. I'm sorry you are here, but you'll discover a lot of wonderful people post all over the Forum, including this one. Read as much a you can, take away what you can use and leave the rest behind.
I'm pasting in Cadet's Welcome Thread info. Please read the threads because you will discover a wealth of info.
Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.
This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.
Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources. You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.
I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations. Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure. You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you! Start your homework assignments. Something to DO while you are on moderation. GAL. Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath. In general take care of your self first.
Detach the single most important thing to DO.
Your H/W has given you a gift THE GIFT OF TIME use it wisely
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon _________________________ Me-62, D30,S29
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Hello, sorry you are here. I am new here and have no insight into the poly thing. I can tell you my H had a 3 year hidden AP. It continued on while I tried to keep him home for almost a year. It seems that shortly after I kicked him out and they were living in her house they couldn't make it last any better and have broken up multiple times with him moving out after only two months. I say this because you are likely correct about them making it work without you. Also, my guess is that two folks in a relationship might be a little boring and predictable for someone potentially dealing with MLC whose had the more exciting dynamic of three or more for so long. That factor alone might be problematic for them. But, at the end of the day, does it matter what happens with them?
Isn't what happens to you far more important? Sounds like you are GAL and already moving on. Be strong, live your life. In time all will be revealed (will they make it work, is one of them MLC, will you be back with one or both, will you find someone "better")? Why not keep doing what you are doing and finding happiness instead of staying stuck?
Go out on your date as though you are giving zero thought to them or what they think. Do it for you. Don't try to make them jealous or rub the person in their faces. Will just come off as desperate.
If you don't want to talk separation agreement tell them you are not ready. They have been planning this and thinking about it for a while. They have each other to talk things through with. You have no one. It is a new development for you and you need time to rationally think through things, meet with a lawyer, etc.
Goes as dark as you need to for you. That is who you are doing it for. Not for them.
Do you want L to be a part of your future? Seems like that answer might determine how you treat her. Given that kids are involved and you don't want to traumatize them, I'd be civil, and even kind if possible. Sounds like your H is taking note of your changes.
Sounds like you are doing a great job and have great instincts. Trust yourself.
I have been GAL'ing for a good portion of the last 6 months. Reconnected with a lot of my friendships that I let lapse, took a rock climbing class [that might not be a GAL since that's what D and I do together for fun, so I took it to bolster my skills], joined a roller derby league (where I met last night's date =) ), got a new job in December which I LOVE and it pays well and gives me a huge sense of identity.
I told them both about asking my date out when I came home from derby, but I never gave them further information because D told me he plans to move out and I went from GAL'ing to a more hard LTR. I did get dressed up and came home a little swoony, but that was genuine. She's so cute - who can blame me. I'm probably not super emotionally available right now, but it's so nice to be reminded that people find me attractive and charming and that I'm confident enough to approach someone.
L and I have been working on a friendship, which is tricky given the enormous conflict of interest. I can't go dark on communication with D, though, and keep L in the loop so I told L I was "going inward" as a form of self care and I hoped they would understand and not feel shut out. L is the biological parent of one of our two children, though we've always considered both children to everyone's children. They will always be in my life, but they've changed so much in the last few years that I don't like them much these days. They've actually begun a transition into a male identity and, as part of that, their personality is really different. It's at this point I should probably mention that D is heterosexual and I don't think fully grasps that L is a man, even though L just started testosterone and plans to grow a beard. I wonder if this pressure on D's identity is just one more piece of what's been happening for him.
D punched a wall in January and broke his hand. Remember when I said that rock climbing was his hobby? He's never done anything like that before. I always called him my rock, my island of stability. And, L took off as they were so freaked out by his display of anger (which happened in a room by himself, not in front of someone) and I went to the hospital with D and subjected myself to his ridiculous abuse because he was anxiously chasing L who was avoiding him, didn't want to be alone, and terrified of the being vulnerable with me but also refusing to take my offers to go home. If I could go back in time, I would have just left him there but I couldn't imagine leaving him alone in that moment.
It's been five days since Sunday, BD #2. Since then, I have gotten exercise every day, journalled everyday which includes writing great things about myself and the trickles of kindness from D (who apologized for taking poor care of me last year when I was in the hospital out of nowhere on Monday morning) and also moments of kindness with L. I have been taking care of my appearance, making my lunches, going to bed on time, ending conversations, and generally being pretty busy and unavailable once the kids are in bed. I'm actually so proud of myself. And, D seems so genuinely confused by my joy -- I'm often singing in the kitchen to myself. I have to admit, I love his confusion. I am pretty sure he expects me to be hysterical so he can justify his decision, but now that I see his game, I am refusing to play. I had some anxious moments yesterday related to L's inquiry about beginning a mediation process, but that was it. And, I just deflected the question and went about my day.
Most of my friends are banging their head that I'm still here, and if this were someone else, I'd be doing the same. The LRT feels like a bit of a "game" which would go over like a tonne of bricks with my feminists friends, so it's so lovely to type without reservation here. But, it gives me back my self esteem and feels like a reclaiming of power. I've been so off balance this last little while that it's amazing to have THEM be off balance. A far cry from coming home one day to be told that my marriage was over in the 30 minute window before the kids arrived home with some ridiculous expectation that I move out by the end of the weekend.
Okay, but if there is a separation, do I take everything I am legally entitled to? I am not "nice" for the sake of reconciliation, right? Because hell no. I sublimated my career for most of my life to his career (he earns over 100K and I make 65K now but retirement outloooks are completely different).
Thanks for the input and support. I definitely need it.
BD#1: "marriage is over" 9/14/2016 H in basement 24/7 with EX/OM BD#2: 3/20/2017 I plan to move out "soon" I LRT me: 42, H, 41, EX/OM, 37 D 10, Son 7 M to H = 20 years EX/OM moved in 10 years ago
Hi Surv1ve, I'm so sorry you find yourself here and in such a complicated family dynamic as well.
I must say I started off okay with your sitch but I slowly lost the plot when you started talking about D being heterosexual but not knowing that L was transitioning into a man. Does that mean D will get a shock when he finds out that L wants to be a man? OMG I feel like I've entered onto the set of a soap, I'm so sorry!
Also, another thing that is bothering me and Helie touched on this to. If you and D have been in a poly relationship for 20 years surely that's what D likes so why would he now want to be with only one partner, it doesn't make sense. Definitely MLC behaviour.
You are in such a difficult situation my heart goes out to you. You sound like you are trying to stay strong and that must be so difficult when you are all in the same house. I can't imagine what that must be like.
All I can say is try to carry on doing what you are already doing. GAL, do your own thing and be the better option. Sending you hugs ((Surv1ve)).
Me - 47 H - 45 D-16 M - 6 years Separated - May 16
Don't leave me behind can't you see me I'm shining... (Years & Years - 'Shine')
Talk to a lawyer for sure and it always depends on what state you are in and the law of that state, but barring a prenup or a postnup, the spouses generally share equally in the retirement (assuming a community property state), so it is likely you are entitled to a good chunk of his retirement.
Ultimately you have the make the decision about what you do. i'm getting a definite vibe though that you are planning an exit. In which case, why would you play nice? When my H had an emotional affair I told him I was going to file for D. He begged me not to. I had the good sense to have him sign a postnup. At the time I was and had been for a long time the higher earner. To this day I have a factor of 10 of what he has in retirement. As a result of that one wise decision in an otherwise fog, I am pretty well set up.
Regardless of what happens here, don't be taken advantage of. These folks are pushing you out and I would not count on them having your best interest at heart.
You sound like the poster child for GAL and seem to have a fabulous attitude. Be strong and keep working on you!
D understands that L is transitioning to being a man on an intellectual level, but he hasn't processed it. He himself isn't queer beyond being poly, and I don't think he's ready for what it means emotionally -- as in, one day soon, he will be out with L and someone will assume he is gay. So, while he is aware that L has 1) had top surgery and 2) just started testosterone, I'm pretty sure that, in his head, he perceives L to be a woman who chopped of her chest.
I am not planning an exit, but financial security is really important to me. On one hand, I want to avoid the tense conversations around separation because I know we will have different opinions and, on the other hand, I am unwilling to give away some of what I'm legally entitled to in order to play nice. I feel like actually having these conversations will be the death knell of any chance of reconciliation and I really, really want o reconcile with D.
As to GAL'ing, I can see that letting my life lapse is part of what got me here. I'm a social worker, and I previously worked as an educator in the queer community here. It basically ate my identity and the work was too emotionally hard and, of course, it never ended because I went out socially, I always wound up working... and, the burn out of that role put me in a position where I let my hobbies lapse, my friendships wither, and just moped around the house and was upset all the time. On one hand, I must have been hard to live with and, on the other hand, I know so many social workers who struggle with the exact same issues. So, realizing that I had lost my network, I started rebuilding it.
Now, as a deeper effort to GAL and not allow my wellness to rely on scraps of attention I might get from him, I've stopped coming home mid day for lunch (D works at home and my work is quite flexible) because I "forgot" my lunch in hopes of spending extra time with him. I've begun going to the gym again in the morning bc those 15 minutes of looking at him aren't worth it. Mostly, realizing that the husband I love doesn't exist right now and no amount of hoping for his care or kindness -- or making myself available for it -- is going to help. It just makes it worse. But, I also believe he's still in there and still can't believe this is my life, sometimes. I just need to do that I've done everything reasonably possible, for me and my values of commitment, and for the kids we have which are the light of my life. And, I met this guy on vacation while identifying as a lesbian, married him 9 months later, and moved to a whole other country to be with him. I've always considered that absolutely worth it, but that's how poly evolved for us -- I still wanted to date women. I just can't wrap my head around life without him. Which is part of my "mirror work" is recognizing how much a part of MY identity my relationship with him is and reclaiming my own independence.
What do kids make of the MLC spouse? My kids ask so many questions, so perceptive at 10 and 7, and I try to answer their questions honestly but appropriately. My 10 yo daughter is the spitting image of me physically and emotionally and identifies so much with me. If he leaves me, I think she'll never forgive him but maybe I'm projecting. Her anxiety was so high when I was not doing well and one of the major motivators for me to keep myself sane is because her moods mirror mine so much and, of course, I can't take good care of her when I'm not doing well myself, which is when she needs me most.
And, thank you all. I was pretty sure there would be no room for my story, so I appreciate your efforts to follow this slightly different version of MLC. I keep trying to google polyamory and MLC and all I get is a bunch of folks (mostly dudes) in MLC who think polyamory might be a good thing to try during their crisis.
BD#1: "marriage is over" 9/14/2016 H in basement 24/7 with EX/OM BD#2: 3/20/2017 I plan to move out "soon" I LRT me: 42, H, 41, EX/OM, 37 D 10, Son 7 M to H = 20 years EX/OM moved in 10 years ago
You know, it is interesting. I have had zero insight into polyamory, homosexuality, bisexuality, etc., but the issues you are having appear to me to transcend minor differences like the gender of the person or the number of people you love. The universal denominator is that you thought you were in a committed relationship (in your case with two people) and you found out the people you loved were not being honest, were not being faithful to your understanding of your shared vision of your family, and were not on your "team" anymore. I don't see this as substantially different from any other story here.
What I finally got from this board in the last couple of weeks, that I haven't gotten from years of therapy, is that I have zero control over what is happening with my H, how our story will end, or what we will be to each other when it does. I think even a few days ago that would have scared me beyond belief.
I now understand that I have 100% control of my feelings, of my actions, and my decisions. I have decided, for now, to do what is recommended here--with the understanding that he may never come back and that if he does I may not want the man who does come back. I think I am finally ok with that. Our lives will likely continue to diverge and at some point they may converge.
I understand that my husband, as another poster so eloquently stated, is not capable of being husbandly now. I have seen that the more I back off, the more he comes forward. Every time I get impatient and start thinking we are coming out the other side, he runs off again. I've had lots of labels for him in the last several years. Some suggested to me by counselors, some I've applied on my own after obsessing about him instead of giving myself that time as you have. I am done with the labels. Maybe he is MLC, maybe he is a narcissist, maybe he is serial cheater or sex addict. Maybe, just maybe, he's just a guy who realized he just doesn't have any feelings for the first girl he ever dated and married at the ripe old age of 21.
I'm so glad you asked about the kids. I so wish there was a thread devoted to the kids. If there is, I just have not found it yet. Mine are 13 going on 14 and days away from 17. We just found out today that my daughter got into a very prestigous program for college. She has one more to hear from before she makes her decision. She is an exceptionally beautiful and talented, old soul bubbling over with emotional maturity. My son is the sweetest and kindest boy you will ever meet.
Their words say that they are done with dad. That they do not love him. That they hate him. That they will never forgive him. Their actions say that they love their dad, that he has hurt them beyond belief, that they would be willing to forgive him if he came back resembling the man that they thought he was. Only time will tell. I try to tell them constantly that his actions have nothing to do with them, and very little to do with me. I tell them that he loves them the best way that he is able to right now. I tell them that he stays away because he is ashamed, not because he does not love them. I tell them I hope that he will improve with time and be able to be more present in their lives. I tell them that while I don't think that I will ever let him come back, that I am unable to say for certain that I won't. I tell them that everyone deserves second, and sometimes third and fourth chances, but that we are not doormats. I tell them to follow their counselor's advice and understand that he may not be able to give them what they want and that they may have to decide if what he can give them is enough. I tell them to understand that who we are today is not necessarily who we will be the day after. I tell them that they are beautiful and smart and that I would not do anything differently in my life and that I would endure all the pain I have because that is what brought them to me. I told them that even though he is flawed, he gave the very best of himself to them. I told them that they don't have to be on my team, that there is no me vs. him. I told them that I am a big girl and can take care of myself and them. I told them that no matter how hard life gets, no matter how much they want to be rid of me or try to shake me, that I will always track them down and I will always be a part of their lives. I remind them every day that I am not going anywhere, that they do not need to be strong for me, and that it is my job as their parent to take care of them. I tell them to let me know when I am not doing my job in the best way possible.
Just love them. Just hold them. Just tell them it will be ok. It may look different than it has. It may change over time. But the love will always be there.
Coly - I realize I didn't answer your question about why D suddenly only wants to be with L. My sense making of that is twofold: D has always been largely unemotional, which I always interpreted as stable and solid. In hindsight, I understand that he's repressed his emotions his entire life and now they're bursting forth everywhere and he has no skills to self regulate them in a healthy way. When L and I broke up, it was coming for a long time. Part of it was that they didn't share their transition with me; I always heard REALLY important pieces of that second hand from other people, and I was really hurt by that. L was also a caretaker and they retracted care when they felt that I was 1) lost in my own world of compassion fatigue/burn out while they were 2) developing a chronic illness (multiple sclerosis). The break up with them feels like an actual break up and not MLC craziness. I saw it coming, and it was me who asked that we stop sleeping in the same room when, after four momths, I wasn't getting anywhere with my concerns and hurts from a giant fight we had.
L and I had done a lot of the emotional labour and caretaking of each other and of the family. No one really had those expectations of D. But, when L and I split up, suddenly we were both turning to D for care and support which increased the demands on him a whole lot -- both in terms of each of us asking him for more than we did before and at the same time. He was moving back and forth between two bedrooms and feeling overwhelmed and consumed by the emotional needs that were quite suddenly being asked of him. So, he repressed -- as I now understand he's been doing his whole life -- and repressed, and repressed, and repressed until he exploded. And, because he's feeling overwhelmed and L had already shut down, he felt he had to choose between us and he chose L who is "easier". Of course, he never talked about ANYTHING he was experiencing and everything was totally fine until one day, a robot had replaced my husband, and that robot was telling me he didn't want to be married to me anymore and he couldn't wait to divorce me and legally marry L.
When I read about MLC, this fits with the conflict avoidant who suddenly can't avoid the conflict anymore and has a melt down. I also realized that his family, who I always considered to to be the Beavers, is not the Beavers. His family is quite reserved and cold even and D obviously never got his emotional needs met as a child and learned that emotional needs result in being ignored, so he shut them down. So, he's never expressed his needs and I've always perceived him to be this easygoing guy who doesn't really care where we eat or where we vacation or whatever and let me drive all the decisions. I spent the first four months psychoanalyzing him, which I am actually trained to do. But, then I read a book called "Love Addiction, changing the way you love" which sort of talks about the love addict-love avoidant cycle, and I had to acknowledge that I saw myself in the Love Addict (and D in the Love Avoidant). It hit me hard, seeing myself in print that way, and realizing how much work **I** had to do on myself. I was pretty tearful for a few days, but then I also felt relieved. I can't make D do his work, but I can choose to do mine which will benefit my happiness long-term no matter what the hell D does. It also explains why my relationship with L collapsed when L developed a chronic illness and no longer had the energy to caretake me in such a huge way and why I felt betrayed when that happened. So, now I'm psychoanalyzing myself.
I understand D through the lens of MLC, through the lens of something called annihilation anxiety (loss of self, being engulfed in the other, having no self boundaries and then exploding) and through the lens of the Love Avoidant. Those things all help me to find compassion for his shitastic behavior. The MLC stuff provides me the most useful guidelines for how to behave in response, and I appreciate all of that. MLC also helps me to understand his Monster behaviour, which has been awful. He talks often about how he can't imagine his life without me and he hopes that we can have a genuine friendship after he moves out/if he moves out. He'll say this on the heels of wondering out loud why he is so angry at me and blames me for everything and I resist (OH SO HARD!) telling him the answers to those questions (BECAUSE I HAVE BECOME YOUR MOTHER IN YOUR MIND AND YOU ARE REBELLING AGAINST YOUR MOTHER) I'm not sure how to respond to that because his moving out betrays every value system I have. I know a lot of folks here are trying to manage MLC after the spouse moves out, and I might change my mind but I'm pretty sure him moving out will be the end of us. I don't think I can tolerate it. Then again, if you could go back and tell former me that I would put up with this behavior from him and still live in the same house and hope he comes around, former-me would tell you that you were off your rocker.
He has been a relatively ok father during this period of time. He struggles more with our daughter -- who is my spitting image -- and sometimes loses his crap when she presents with anxious behavior or tells him that she refuses to wear THAT shirt or she needs X RIGHT NOW. But, he has tries to show up for them and take them on activities, etc. But, the kids were recently playing a game in which 10yo daughter was zapping 7 YO son into different people and then he had to imitate those people. When Daughter zapped Son into "daddy", son said, "Oh, I a am sad. I am angry. I am grumpy. Oh, I actually don't want to be Daddy. Can you zap me into someone else?" So, the kids see the depression/anger and have been trying to make sense of it.
Helious, thank you so much for writing about what you say to the kids. That was super helpful. I want to support them to grow up into healthy adults with secure attachments EVEN when D is being so unpredictable. I want them to keep their hearts open to D. That said, if D moves out, I do want primary custody because D is too unpredictable. L has also been super unpredictable in lots of other ways. I mean, really, with MLC with D and L newly on testosterone, I am basically living with two teenage boys in grown up bodies as they BOTH emerge into new identities in their early 40s.
BD#1: "marriage is over" 9/14/2016 H in basement 24/7 with EX/OM BD#2: 3/20/2017 I plan to move out "soon" I LRT me: 42, H, 41, EX/OM, 37 D 10, Son 7 M to H = 20 years EX/OM moved in 10 years ago
I just want to stand back and clap for you! You are so in touch with what is going on. When your words are not getting through hand them the rope and see what they do with it. Loving but firm. Available but detached. Kind but strong.
