One more thing, a very common dynamic in dysfunctional relationships...
Usually the husband (but not always) stonewalls. He will not do something, knowing it will make the wife react. The wife ends up looking crazy and emotional and overly invested. But really it was instigated or button pushed.
Yes, it's interesting the dynamic with the ex-wife. Me and XH met online a year after he and his XW1 had separated. His S was just four at the time. I met his ex W after we'd been dating for a year or so and they had D'd. I have to say, given my experience now, I wouldn't even consider dating a guy who was married, even if separated for a while...but that was then..and maybe a lesson needed to be learned.
I have been lucky enough that XH's XW1 has been very kind and supportive to me. She is pretty miffed about the turn of events and the impact on SS. Recently she told me that she liked me as soon as she met me, and worried that I had been duped by XH and his narrative of events...she may well be right. I'm also a little conscious that her feelings about the ending of their marriage may have been validated by the ending of our marriage too - ie: it's him that's defective here and not me etc...I try not to buy into it too much really..
When I see people posting about being affianced and running into difficulties then (unless they have kids together) I tend to think - wow lucky break discovering all this before you committed to marriage. Head for the hills and be thankful!
I would agree with Juju and be cautious about blaming the XW for the current state of affairs. Normally the lives we come to lead reflect how we have conducted ourselves thus far. And of course past behaviour is the most likely predictor of future behaviour unless there has been some pretty significant awakening..
Anyway, I hope there is some helpful nugget in here for you - if not, do feel free to discard...
Good luck with everything :)xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Honey crazy exes are crazy, just as mad dogs bite. It's territory that may be well trodden. Crazy exes are crazy for no reason at all. They interfere with life and mess things up when they can, especially until the kids are no longer dependent, then the grip lessens. One thing I have observed that the closer the kids get to independence and adulthood the crazier the crazy ex becomes. It's because they see the resources moving away from them. There are many abusive strategies including breaking up their partners new R.
That's so tough a sitch to be in and bewildering.
I can only comment from my own practical experience, my ex is a crazy ex and thats one reason I haven't dated (amoung many). My XWH is suing me for money he paid into the joint account for bills). A part of the period he is taken legal action we co-habited (the majority part in fact) was for a three year period before M. My research and L advice reveals to me that payments between live in spouses are considered gifts (they can't be sued for). Google 'the worst boyfriend ever'. I think therefore that you may find the net proceeds of sale of your home will be divided between you and any calculations will ignore anything other than the deposit. I am not an L though and in a different jurisdiction just having similar issues, but my those are my thoughts. For those who are also curious you can't take civil action against your spouse in the UK, marital (family) law applies. Family law is it seems an equitable law position. Duh!
You have made some very brave decisions on venturing into the wilderness with your own tiny haven. And you write clearly and well about your pain.
I can only say that with peace it gets better. Some of it never truly makes sense especially if your bf doesn't want to be with mscrazy. So instead of you two being solid in the sitch it has created guilt or even worse shame and obligation in your bf. If I read you correctly it's about $$$$$ not R.
Keep posting and let us know how you are.
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
I just got a little teary reading all the feedback I've gotten since last night. Thanks for taking the time to write. It's nice to know that people care.
JujuB: I went back and read some of your threads last night and I see where you're coming from. Even though I am harsh when it comes to this particular XW, I have empathy for her position, and all those who have kids together and are going through separation or divorce. No one wanted to have kids within a marriage that would crumble, especially when D wasn't their choice. It can't be easy to have to continue to interact with your ex and watch them move on. It's hard enough to let go when you don't have to see them regularly.
Some more things that I know: H lost his job in 2008, and that was when XW stated she didn't want to try any longer. They were living as roommates, with a special needs child, and she'd reconnected with her high school boyfriend. H was devastated at the time, but after some counseling came to understand that it wasn't a healthy marriage and she did him a huge favor. He learned in counseling that he'd chosen her to try to work out some things with his controlling and anxious mother.
I do know he wasn't a good H to her. He knows that, too. I don't think she was the only reason things were bad, but I also have never seen her do anything resembling taking responsibility for anything or doing anything but blaming H for every problem in her life, including into the present day. So I don't feel too bad for her, because if she wanted a better H she could have tried to be a better W. Instead, she felt entitled to some sort of fairy tale being handed to her. (And that is linked to their situation; I'm not generalizing that to you.)
Some things that I suspect: I think he married and had kids with her in order to give his parents grandkids first. His younger brother was their favorite, and I think H wanted to beat him to the punch. He managed to find XW, who has all the worst qualities of both of his parents (LOL) and surface qualities that he knew his mother would admire. I have never told him my theory but I'm pretty sure it's correct. I think there was something resembling love, and I'll leave it at that.
It's great that you're logical and detached with your XH. Truly, don't stress about what he says about you. Any woman worth giving a darn about will take what he says with a grain of salt and look at you through her own eyes.
Sotto
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When I see people posting about being affianced and running into difficulties then (unless they have kids together) I tend to think - wow lucky break discovering all this before you committed to marriage. Head for the hills and be thankful!
I can see why people say that to me, but it's incredibly hard to feel that way. We own property together and sorting that out would actually be easier if we were married.
What happened made my father cry, something I've never seen him do before in my entire life. My friends are shocked and shaken up. Everyone loved the two of us together.
We had a really good thing and all signs pointed to being in it for the long haul, until he wasn't. Maybe some day I can arrive at the "thank goodness" stage, but I'm not there. Not at all, especially when I know there was outside influence that sent him spiraling into what looks like depression.
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be cautious about blaming the XW for the current state of affairs. Normally the lives we come to lead reflect how we have conducted ourselves thus far.
I agree with that, but that's also assuming that I didn't see things with my own eyes. H used to come to me for help communicating with her (which he would only do in writing thanks to her abusive tendencies), and so I saw everything that was said. And she is a jerk.
H didn't want to deal with her outside of necessary topics regarding the kids, but she just could not let go. He'd get overwhelmed trying to ignore all the hurtful things she'd write. I'd help him write brief businesslike responses where he ignored her drama and harassment.
I don't claim to know everything that happened before I was around, but the situation to me in the past 5 years was pretty black and white and I was privy to it. I am certain she has some personality disorders (our counselor speculated about it as well), and she would come after him using guilt and shame. And that's what she used to overwhelm him in January and it worked. It helped that the kids also verbally abused him (in the same way they'd observed her verbally abuse him for years) when he was finally trying to get them to do some very simple chores. They're good kids, but they mimicked what they'd seen, and it devastated him.
Sometimes one person is just so unreasonable in the present day that a description of them being unreasonable in the past is not that difficult to swallow. I have also heard from his family that she was awful. His mother told us a story about XW chasing her around with pruning shears, something she'd never told to H until that moment.
Vanilla
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One thing I have observed that the closer the kids get to independence and adulthood the crazier the crazy ex becomes. It's because they see the resources moving away from them. There are many abusive strategies including breaking up their partners new R.
Yes. Yes! In addition to the kids getting older and more independent, he was making commitments to me and that also had her reeling and grasping for control.
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I think therefore that you may find the net proceeds of sale of your home will be divided between you and any calculations will ignore anything other than the deposit. I am not an L though and in a different jurisdiction just having similar issues, but my those are my thoughts.
This is what my lawyer says, too. We're 50/50 on the deed and with no verbal nor written agreement, proceeds are split evenly.
But I'm not worried about that. I'll worry about it when the time comes. Because I'm not surprised at all that I haven't heard a peep from him about selling the house. Now that I'm gone, the pressure is off.
He seemed to want to end the relationship without having me leave. He didn't factor that part in, and now he's recalibrating. It's anyone's guess about what will happen from here.
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You have made some very brave decisions on venturing into the wilderness with your own tiny haven. And you write clearly and well about your pain.
Thank you for that. It's really sweet.
I am second guessing everything, since I'm not sure it was the right decision to leave. I mean, it was right for me, but it maybe wasn't the best move if I want R. There's no easy route back.
If not for the stepparenting stuff, maybe I could have stayed. But it hurt too much to watch what was supposed to be my family from the outside looking in.
At least I got to say some goodbyes to the kids. They were so sweet to me. I let both of them know that I had tried to not let it get to the point where I had to move, but had been unsuccessful. It was important to me that they know that I didn't give up easily. I feel so bad that there's been another relationship failure for them to witness. We were supposed to be modeling something healthy for them.
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Some of it never truly makes sense especially if your bf doesn't want to be with mscrazy. So instead of you two being solid in the sitch it has created guilt or even worse shame and obligation in your bf. If I read you correctly it's about $$$$$ not R.
Yes, to be clear, he didn't leave me for her. She just harassed him to the point that he lost all confidence in himself and his choices.
I'm speculating with this, but I believe he felt unhappy and looked to the one optional relationship in his life as what he needed to be free of to go back to being happy. And so, indirectly, she got him to self-destruct and leave me. They were together for years; she knows exactly how to manipulate him.
It's a beautiful day here and I just want to lay in bed, feel a little bit sorry for myself, and snuggle with my dog. I have to go into the office and get some work done, though.
It does however sound like your fiance did this to you once before. And now he is doing it to you again. To me it would make sense that he did this to his wife and she has been reacting or vengeful.
He did do it once before, and he didn't learn from it. I see that now. One would think that hearing that he knew he'd taken me for granted, and that he'd loved me the whole while, and admitting that he held onto my things to maintain a connection with me would be enough to trust him again.
Now that I've been reading up on MLC's, I think he's been in and out of one the whole time I've known him. I think he truly loved me, but I also think he looked to me to make him happy, and that's part of the reason the second time failed. He's blamed me for his own unhappiness.
He told me I was the only woman he'd dated who ever fully met his needs. He met me when he was in therapy, and I think that led him to make a healthier choice for himself. Unfortunately, just when he was starting to dig into depression and family of origin issues, his counselor decided to stop accepting insurance and he could no longer go to her. I think that traumatized him, and he felt abandoned by the counselor, who had assumed a motherly stance with him.
With his XW, it seems like what they had was much different. He'd always deferred to her. He didn't choose to end their M, though what he describes was him being totally emotionally checked out.
It's almost the total opposite with me. He was totally checked in with me, and he knew I loved him, so it makes it safe for him to assert himself. No other woman (Mom or XW) would be okay with him expressing anger. I was, and so all of that was projected onto me. That's part of the reason I had to get out of there, even though I wanted things to work.
I agree that you had to get out of there. For your own mental health. I think it tells him you mean business, and sets very appropriate boundaries. Your leaving shows that you have respect for yourself and I feel makes you more valued. You can look back and be very proud because you certainly were no one's door mat. I wish more of us here were able to do that. You were very fair and reasonable.
He obviously had and has a lot of issues. Many of us do. But you cant really fix those for him. It could have been a depression he was going into, but perhaps he was upset with you and just did not communicate? Which is what a lot of walkaways tend to do.
What are some of your issues that you need to fix? What do you think are some of the negative things he would say about you if we were to ask him? That is pretty much all you can really focus on right now.
It sounds like your ex was a left behind spouse. His wife had taken up with another man which is pretty traumatic. I can see how she would be controlling, because someone capable of that type of betrayal tends to have a certain sense of entitlement.
I know someone going through something similar to you right now. Not easy. Especially with children that you have bonded with. And my heart goes out to you for that.
I have to confess that I too have sent my ex some emotional, passive aggressive and angry texts meant to place blame and guilt on him. And I can tell he has trouble responding. He wants to keep me placated and its frustrating. I still have tons of anger and resentment. He had called me verbally abusive when he left as well.
Whats funny is that I don't worry about what one of his girl friends would say or think of me. I just get mad that he kind of left us in financial difficulties and new girls have no idea and think he is a great guy. He really villified me to justify walking away and now i am angry for that villification. I see him as a really bad guy and get upset because others are not seeing that.
It almost feels like if someone murdered or seriously injured your dog and then you have to watch him getting a new dog and playing with it and treating it well. I would never want to be back with someone capable of hurting an animal but at the same time the anger is there because hey, what about my dog that I invested in. (Again different from his ex, as she was the one to cheat and leave)
Sigh, none of us are perfect. And reading your post is helping me to see why I need to move past what ex has done just for the sake of being a more graceful human being. Not easy though.
Cadence, This is what a moderator told me about communicating with friends on the forums.
The PM has never been available to posters. We aren't allow to provide any kind of personal data on the forum, which includes your home address, phone number, email and/or your FB info. I would suggest that you go to facebook and start an account in Facebook that is easy for me or others to recognize. Generally, posters will use their poster names here and type DB directly behind that name.
M-60 H-51 M-14 years BD 12/26/16 S 1/1/17
"First the pain, then the rising." Glennon Doyle Melton
He's been in touch with a proposal he drafted regarding the sale of the house. So apparently he's going through with it.
He says he would like me to review his document and meet to sign it, and he so generously will pay for an attorney to make it legal.
In it, he is trying to get me to negate how we have the deed. Right now we have 50/50 ownership. We did this in order to prevent either of us from being kicked out if something happens to the other person (especially if something happened to him and his kids were still minors and awful exW was thus in charge of his share) With this type of ownership, the sale would be 50/50 unless someone raised a challenge. So he's trying to get me to sign something with the terms of another deed, to negate me having any claim to the property, without coming out and saying so.
His contract states that I will not move back in prior to the sale (guess I've still got cooties?), that he will stay there until the sale, that he will be in charge of selecting a realtor/FSBO, that he will solely determine which offers to accept, and that he will get his entire down-payment back upon sale. And if there is anything left over, we will split that 50/50.
This is what he should have done back when we were purchasing it. He didn't, because he was committed.
Now that he's unilaterally ended the relationship, he wants to be able to hit an "undo" button and walk away unscathed.
I am sniffling at my desk today because it has occurred to me that he is TRYING to make this as ugly as possible. He did not mention the few thousand that I paid into equity by making the monthly payments, which he has scoffed at every time I brought it up. He left that out of his contract on purpose.
He is trying to make this ugly for two reasons:
1. To ensure that he burns every bridge and there is never a way back, and
2. To give himself more ammunition about how awful I am, how I was just after his money, and to justify how he has been acting toward me since that day in January when he lost his mind.
This hurts so badly to see him setting this up so that he can tell himself that he was justified to leave me.
(I am obviously not signing this contract. I sent it to my lawyer to review and I will let the lawyer be the bad guy.)
Even after I knew what a financial advantage I had (he can contest 50/50, but as I put no money down, he's the only one lessening what he gets), I still tried to keep him from self-destructing. It hurts to see that he's bound and determined to self-destruct, and he's setting it up so that he can blame me for it.
Ouch.
I don't want to be punitive, but what am I to do here? His actions have already cost me a significant amount of money, in moving costs, attorney's fees, and in the extra tax I will have to pay on my condo when I sell it because I'd turned it into a rental. And I didn't want any of this. I would not have tied myself to him financially if I knew he was capable of running away as he has.
Does anyone have suggestions on how to get out of the role he's trying so hard to cast me into?
It sounds like your ex was a left behind spouse. His wife had taken up with another man which is pretty traumatic.
Yes. I understand that. I was not his first post-divorce relationship and he'd already processed what happened in his marriage in therapy, though, so I felt okay about it. He told me he was shaken up at first, but now could see that she'd done him a big favor.
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I can see how she would be controlling, because someone capable of that type of betrayal tends to have a certain sense of entitlement.
Yes, and she's just entitled in general. She has a job where she gets reviewed online, and hoo boy you should see some of them. They talk about how she's spacey and angry, and will snap if someone questions how she's doing her job. It sounds about right.
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I know someone going through something similar to you right now. Not easy. Especially with children that you have bonded with. And my heart goes out to you for that.
Thank you. It hurts so badly. They were supposed to be my family.
This experience makes me want to stay far away from dating men with children.
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He wants to keep me placated and its frustrating. I still have tons of anger and resentment. He had called me verbally abusive when he left as well.
JujuB, this is a way to stay attached to him. Anger is not the opposite of love. Staying angry with him means you don't have to let go. You're only hurting yourself, girl.
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Whats funny is that I don't worry about what one of his girl friends would say or think of me.
Okay. Just be careful. I see you already minimizing the role that new women will play in his life, but one day he's going to get serious with one of them. And she'll be his new partner and be around your kids, so it's in your best interest to stop minimizing them to yourself. This is real and it will happen. Take care of yourself by accepting that.
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I just get mad that he kind of left us in financial difficulties and new girls have no idea and think he is a great guy. He really villified me to justify walking away and now i am angry for that villification. I see him as a really bad guy and get upset because others are not seeing that.
I acknowledge your anger. That must be hard. But I still urge you to forgive him and let go. I doubt very much he went into things with you intending for that to be the end result.
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It almost feels like if someone murdered or seriously injured your dog and then you have to watch him getting a new dog and playing with it and treating it well.
You've got to grieve "your dog" if you ever want it to stop feeling this way. For you, not for him.
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Sigh, none of us are perfect. And reading your post is helping me to see why I need to move past what ex has done just for the sake of being a more graceful human being. Not easy though.
Not easy, but necessary for your own happiness. You, Juju. Not appearing as a graceful human being to others, as an investment in yourself. You deserve that.
