the bomb was dropped.....

[Sunmoon]

Thank you 25yearsmlc. I'll be purchasing the DR tomorrow. I have been trying very hard to take what he says are our "problems" and try to make them right. I have not nagged him once since the BD. no bad tone of voice, no fighting, and trying especially hard to not act needy and beg. (I feel I have done a decent job). despite a few rejections from him, we actually have been more intimate in the last week than we have in months. although the intimacy is a bit "cold" if that makes sense. He complains I never just sit with him and watch stupid movies and tv (I'm just not a tv person, I'd rather be out doing things outside or cooking, creating art, etc)but for the last 5 days I have watched more movies and TV than I have in ages as well. His behavior is still very weird to me but I guess that comes with the territory of a spouse that has checked out.

Would you recommend that I still try and distance myself, even though he is starting to become a little more receptive? It's very hit and miss, but it's there. last week he told me he didn't feel much for me and not to get offended if he wasn't affectionate...the last two days he's been kissing and hugging, all his effort.

[25yearsmlc]

okay, this is going to be long but I want to get the best advice possible and feel I need to really get in depth about what has happened between H and I.

Last week, my husband dropped the "I'm not happy" bomb on me. he was sobbing, pouring out his heart to me.
I can't exactly say it was a complete shock, because we have been having marital issues and have been seeking counseling, of which both of us have been happy going. but to me, the issues we were having were not "divorce worthy".

but to HIM, they are, or he's not saying everything. Bottom line is that he is willing to risk the marriage to pursue or feel or explore "whatever..." so you saying the issues are not divorce worth sort of invalidates his perspective. Something is really undermine the marriage in his eyes. That's just a fact.


just to give a brief background: H and I have been married for almost 6 years, together for 9, I am 33 and he is 30. we can both admit that we are not the same people we married. we have grown personally.

So he was 21 when you began dating? And how have you changed? And him? Yes he has some young friend he's hanging out with (just 5 years younger), but how has HE changed from when you dated or were first married? And you? What are you doing or saying differently from then?


However, On my end, it hasn't changed my feelings for him or our marriage. We have grown apart to an extent; growing to like different activities, ideas and ways of thinking about certain subjects, but still have a moderate about of common interests.

A "moderate amount of common interests" is not exactly a ringing endorsement. Sunmoon, I'm going to be blunt for a minute.

Maybe you need to assess whether you want this marriage, or you simply don't want to be the rejected party. Sometimes it's hard to know. We are very wrapped up in being part of a couple.

He took a job 4 years ago that requires him to work 7 days a week.


how long will that go on? "requires" him to work every day? That is a big deal. Was this a mutual decision?

He CAN take weekends off (he can ask for them, sometimes they deny the request) but the money is so good and we are in a lot of debt

does he blame you for the debt? Or not working as much?

so he hates asking for the weekends off. his father has worked at the very same company for 40 years, (7days a week) and so does his brother.

our issues started before he took this job,

care to elaborate?

but I feel his job has made things worse, and we should have started seeing the warning signs sooner. fast forward to the bombshell- he is unhappy.

Working every day without an end in sight, and maybe seeing the life of his dad/brother and not wanting to live their lives, might be an issue. BUT you cannot do anything about that

he feels we are no longer compatible in every area (this is includes sexually as well).


how do you feel about that?

he feels we have grown so far apart that he is unsure he will ever be able to feel the same way about me as when we were in our younger years of the relationship. he spends all of his time on social media, tv and movies, hardly looking up to even see what I am doing or engage in any conversation, to him, I nag, I dont make him feel like a man (which, to be honest, I have been extremely depressed and have had high anxiety which has caused me to be someone I am not, and I HAVE been seeking counseling for, and I HAVE improved, even he admits he has seen positive changes in me).

Glad you are getting help. Keep up the work, and at least in front of HIM, keep showing the progress...even if you backslide, he doesn't have to know. Make sense?

I am not going to pretend that I have been the ideal wife, because I have lacked. However he has not been the best husband he can be either.

i quit my job almost a year ago because it was high stress and my hours were opposite his, we saw zero of each other. we lost a lot of income but to me it was better than losing the marriage.

how did He feel about you quitting? Was it an agreed up decision?

I took the summer off, which he agreed could be good for me, but during the summer he had told me he was starting to feel some unhappiness, which then we started seeking counseling, and individual counseling for me for my issues. we both enjoy going and love our counselor.

Do your personal issues interfere with the marriage? Were they present before this? Are you very social, apart from being part of a couple? As an individual?


I got a part time job in october which allows me to work when hes working, so we can still have time to see each other. however the time we have together is spent arguing or buried in his phone or tv. he says he "loves me" but isn't "in love with me" anymore.
he feels trapped, smothered, and depressed.

Sunmoon, is there a thread of truth or validity to any of this^^?

He recently befriended another guy at work who is quite a bit younger than us (I am 33 and he is 30, friend is 25). this friend is engaged and H says that he wants the relationship that him and his fiance have. they are compatible, in love, do everything together and have few arguments.

I feel this is an unfair comparison, because these two are not even married yet, younger and have a lot of growing to do. I told him that this couple could be in the exact position we ar


see, this^ is sort of like saying he "should not" feel as he does, and it invalidates how he feels. Plus it's a little like saying "they'll be miserable IN TIME, just like us", as opposed to asking how you two can recapture the connection you once had.

Make sense?

e in in 5 years, and he cant compare someone else's present relationship to ours. he feels that I don't let him go hang out with his buddies, or when he does, I make him feel guilty for going out. this is partially true- with him working 7 days a week its hard to get any quality time with him, (may I add he is also an on-cal firefighter and responds to calls when he isnt at work)so I constantly feel like I get no time with him,

so it's not really just "partially true", right?


and when he wants to go out without me, I have a hard time accepting he would rather go out than spend the very little time he has with me- and yes, i know this is unfair to him, and I have let him know that I am aware that it is.

since the bomb, he has sought out individual counseling appointment with our counselor. so have I.

I have been trying really hard not to beg or convince, although I have told him what I feel and what I think can happen if we try harder.

but you are trying to convince him, aren't you?

he doesn't mind us sleeping in the same bed, doing things together, but has told me not to get offended that he isn't there for me physically- kiss, hug, cuddle etc. he said all the feelings are so raw right now that he is confused on what he wants.

i am trying very hard to give him that space but i take things so personally and because i am a physical touch person i feel like I'm just being rejected.

sun moon, I'm so sorry. I see your comments and then you negate them. A lot of the word "But" is present. Your own promises are not really being kept. Can you see what I mean?


we did get a little intimate one night this week, but was turned down several other times. he took the weekend off to hit a movie with me, we went to dinner, we did a little window shopping, and i noticed he spent a lot of money on everything which is very out of the norm for him.

Did this^^ bother you? And did you show that?

he is also testing our some small "honor and respect boundaries" that we set up prior to getting married- I'm 99% positive that there isn't another woman, however he has been talking about past "friends" that were girls, being a little disrespectful when it comes to other women (not hiding it when hes staring at other women in front of me, talking about other "hot women", and searching out inappropriate things on the internet) It's almost like he knows he's in a position of power right now, and he is using it to his advantage to do what he wants knowing I won't say anything for fear I might push him over the edge. this is not only unfair but immature and disrespectful.

Yes it is hurtful.


i love him dearly- we have a lot of fond memories, no kids but animals we share and love. could this be an early onset of midlife crisis?


I doubt it. There are reasonable explanations for this marital crisis, don't you think?This is more like the progression of problems that has now escalated.

Plus your course of action is the same, regardless of whether he's having an MLC or simply wants out. KEEP THAT IN MIND...

could his demanding job and the pressure of a not so hot marriage be catapulting him into this very odd behavior?

is it so odd, given that you describe a "not so hot marriage" and you're both so young, and you have your own issues, and my guess is he's not crazy about his job or hours...


I'm heartbroken, lost, and don't know whether to stay and weather this storm, or to separate for a bit.

I am trying extremely hard to be open and peaceful, not nag and slap a smile on my face when I just want to cry, guard my heart when it comes to his inability to "be there for me right now" but I am in agony.

Can you do an exercise for me for a few minutes? Just for a few minutes...

Imagine for just a little while, that your h had passed away -

Imagine now that you had grieved, and somehow you had processed his passing away,

and that you had recovered your life somehow. Imagine that you were at peace and had finally moved on.

Where would you be living? Would you travel often? Would you change jobs or go back to school? Would you have joined a club, or volunteered somewhere?

So, which of those ^^ things can you do, now?

[Dawgs]

Can you do an exercise for me for a few minutes? Just for a few minutes...

Imagine for just a little while, that your h had passed away -

Imagine now that you had grieved, and somehow you had processed his passing away,

and that you had recovered your life somehow. Imagine that you were at peace and had finally moved on.

Damn, I like this!

[Sunmoon]

25yearsmlc,
Thanks for all your input. seeing things in a different perspective helps. you are right. I have severely undermined his wants and needs to a point that he feels extremely pushed aside and unimportant. I know because he opened up to me about it finally, and I cannot say it's a lie. So this is one of many things I have already begun to change. My husband comes first.

One of the biggest changes we have both made are our religious beliefs. Both being "christian" to him not really knowing what he believes, and me ducking out of religion and just becoming more spiritual. BUT, even though he thinks what I practice is crazy, he and I both accept each other's right to believe what we want. When we were younger it was fun to hang out, watch movies, go out and drink, etc. as I've aged, I crave things with more substance- intelligent conversation, time in nature, travel, experiencing life instead of sitting in front of a tv. He hasn't grown out of it- it's still his favorite thing to do and in fact its become his life outside of work. these are the major changes, there are little ones here and there.

as far as his job- I have brought up the subject of him possibly quitting. He says that will probably never happen. He said he doesnt mind his job- he gets paid very well and most of the time the job is a cakewalk. ALthough I will say yes: he does blame me for the MAJORITY of the debt. we have already discussed this in counseling and we are already on a path to remedying the situation. even after the debt is gone, he says he still would not quit. He likes the money. as far as a mutual decision goes, it was, and he was also being pressured by his parents to take the job as well. his father and brother work there and his parents are very well off. its great pay, pension, cadillac insurance, the whole bit. he knew what he was getting himself into, because he had worked there as a temp as well during his college years.

the issues we had before his job started were what they are now but on a lesser scale- nagging, not meeting each other's needs, more or less falling into being "comfortable" and not keeping the spark in the marriage.

The fact that he doesn't feel sexually compatible hurts. He was much more sexually active than I before we started dating - and so I think that created a little bit of insecurity on my end, and maybe created some performance anxiety, making the play time less that fantastic. This issue is being addressed with counselor, and will be getting resolved.

I feel I have made tons of progress on my end. I have not nagged him once since the bomb, I have not begged for attention, I have used kind words and my tone of voice has been good, if something he had said made me angry I nicely got up and walked away...not saying a word. Ive asked to join him in the room to watch a movie, and he has liked that I am at least taking interest in wanting to share his likes with him.

I quit my job sort of unexpectedly, but was brought up a few times before I did it. He wanted me to at least have another job before I quit but circumstances at work and other factors gave me no other choice but to get out when I did, and He said he understood. I told him I would start looking for another job immediately and he told me not to rush it, that we would be fine, and to take some time to get myself healthy mentally, of which I sought counseling those months I was off.

yes, personal issues interfere with our marriage, which is why I sought counseling. they stem from my childhood. he knew this before we married. I am an introvert by nature, but when we started dating, he was completely fine with it, he even told me he can be right in the middle most of the time, wanting that alone time away from people. I am "selectively" social I guess you can say. I have a couple friends and I like to keep it that way, It's just who I am.

I do feel like he is trapped, smothered and depressed. seeing the situation from his perspective is scary. 7 day a week job, no end, debt, a marriage where each other's needs are not being met.....talk about misery. I am sad for him, and upset that I didn't see how my actions were weighing on him.

by no means though is this entirely on me. He has admitted that he has not been the husband to me that he knows he should be.

I didn't mean to say that this couple he knows would be "miserable in time"...what I meant was, just because their situation is ideal now doesn't mean it will be always. even the best couples go through rocky times, It's not a reason to give up and "on to the next". Yes, we have talked about how we can have what those two presently have.

can't go into much more detail for lack of time here, but I appreciate your breaking down my post and making me face it from another angle. We have made progress just in the last week and I am hopeful. I have made changes, him, well not so much, yet, I understand that he needs to deal with his emotions before he can begin to repair. That's why we both agreed to counseling, and I am only going to be focusing on how I can become a better friend, listener, and lover.

[25yearsmlc]

Sunmoon

not sure where you live but do you think Retrovaille is something you 2 could attend?

The one we attended did NOT push Catholicism in any way (h is not Catholic and actually is more or less atheist now). But it is for couples.

An individual workshop you may find extremely beneficial to you is called "Essential Experience" (aka "EE") and it's in Philadelphia.

Though it's geared towards individual growth and self actualization, that obviously benefits marriages.

It also helped me as a parent and in all my r's. H later went completely due to changes he saw within me.

At the time, I did not attend EE for marital issues. We were young, very busy but happy. I found myself bogged down in old family dynamics near my family of origin.
So I went to EE for reasons other than my marriage. But boy, it sure made the bond I felt for H, deeper.

Anyhow, there's a website of theirs. I still see it as the single most profound learning experience I've had.

I'm not saying we didn't backslide, b/c we did. Permanent changes must be reinforced and checked. I'm just saying EE was super helpful to me, personally, and relationally.

I had gotten some IC and I really liked my IC. But For ME, weekly therapy was not very "efficient" b/c even when I had breakthroughs or insights, I had to leave after an hour, and pick up the kids or return to work. It was very fragmented.

And With h's schedule, taking a long weekend was far easier than taking weekly appointments off.

Just a thought. Many DBers have attended it and found it very helpful.

Hang in there.

[Sunmoon]

Thanks 25yearsmlc,

I will look into it for me at least, H has stated he only wants to work through our counselor for now. I'm hanging on. by a thread it seems, but I am strong.

We went to counseling yesterday and he had said some things I thought were very interesting- hurtful but interesting....

He basically models a marriage after his parents. He mentioned how his parents' marriage was, -basically they live pretty independent of each other- his dad has worked 7 days a week for the last 36 years and his mom is a social butterfly. I've never seen them hug, kiss, be affectionate in any way, their conversations with each other are often very sarcastic, and they don't do a whole lot together. then he proceeded to tell me I was too needy and that I was smothering him. that he is a confident man that needs his time and I don't give him that. so, from what i gather from all of that, he wants a woman like his mother.

another interesting thing I took away - he brought up a text I had sent him a couple days ago...I had left for the morning and he had went to the gym. I told him not to wait for me to eat lunch because I didn't know when I was going to be home. I ended up coming home early because the person I was going to go visit ended up being busy, and when I got home, he wasn't there. I kindly sent him a text saying, "hey im home, where are you at? did you eat lunch or do you need me to fix you something?" he stated to me that he wasnt in any way mad at me for the text, but that growing up, whenever he asked his mom where his dad was at, she would say "I dont know." He thinks I should just be oblivious to whats going on with him I guess? HOWEVER: when I went out last night, after he got out of work, it was "hey you still out?" and then when I didn't answer, he called me, wanted to know where I was at, and when I was gonna be home....really?? then today, same thing. I mentioned I was going to town- "why are you going to town? what are you gonna do there?" There's a lot of contradiction. I don't want to address it because I fear this will just make him more angry at me than he already is with this whole situation.

[Sunmoon]

Update:
things have been going "okay" for the most part up until yesterday. Saturday night, he went out after work with some co-workers for a couple drinks. i did not text him, ask when he was going to be home, I completely let him be and let him come home when he wanted. sunday morning rolls around and he asks if we were going to go to my grandmas for lunch (we dot this every sunday, with the whole family) I said that I hadnt planned on it because i was feeling slightly under the weather but he hinted that he wanted to go, so I agreed and we went. the entire time we were there, he stayed away from me completely. had very little conversation with anyone- played with the kids for a bit and talked a bit to my uncles but stayed completely away from me. after eating I finally got sick of the behavior and I got up to get my purse and said my goodbyes to everyone- he acted shocked that I was leaving sooner than i usually leave. He then got up and said he would leave too because he had to get around and get to work (we drove separate so he could go to work from there) as we were walking out to my car, I walked to my door and reached for the handle and he said "okay, so I guess bye?" he stood there like he was waiting for a hug - I turned to him and kindly said "well I really feel like you were needing your space today, youve acted like you didnt really want me around.." he said, "no I havent" and gave me a hug and kiss goodbye. later in the day on his lunch break he texted me "I'm having more confusion again, i feel detached today".

last night when he got home, same treatment- cold, went down into the basement and didn't come up until he came to bed. this morning was even more odd, he got up to go the the gym and never even said bye...this is very unusual for him.

So, I need advice- I havent gotten my hand on the DR book yet but am getting it...I need to know if its time for me to detach and leave for a while. I have shown in the last two weeks significant improvement. I have not done any of the things that he first complained about- I let him go out for the first time without a single text or worry of where he was at or when he was going to be home. he didn't even acknowledge what a huge stride that was for me. I want to save this marriage and feel like staying somewhere else and asking for no contact will help him S**t or get off the pot on his feelings for our marriage.

[Dawgs]

I havent gotten my hand on the DR book yet but am getting it...I need to know if its time for me to detach and leave for a while. I have shown in the last two weeks significant improvement. I have not done any of the things that he first complained about- I let him go out for the first time without a single text or worry of where he was at or when he was going to be home. he didn't even acknowledge what a huge stride that was for me. I want to save this marriage and feel like staying somewhere else and asking for no contact will help him S**t or get off the pot on his feelings for our marriage.

Try not to base your changes on his noticing them or not... The thing is, they are for you and not him. Just make sure to change for your own self and not anyone else - because if you do it for someone else it never works in the first place and will only lead to resentment.

As far as detaching, its for your sanity. Not for him...for you to work on yourself.

And, as far as pushing him to notice/change his feelings about the marriage...there is nothing you can do. Remember the butterfly analogy?

[Sunmoon]

Jeep74,
everything you say is true, it's just hard for me to come to terms with it. at this point, after the weird behavior he pulled this morning after I had written the post, I feel there is something wrong him, more than what he is letting on. He, for the first time in a long time, initiated sex after returning home from the gym this morning. I was shocked. especially after his extremely walled off behavior yesterday. at first i though, WOOHOO!! he's back! but then I quickly reminded myself not to get excited, because it could all turn around in an instant, and it did afterwards. sulky, depressed behavior within an hour of ML.

[Dawgs]

Sunmoon,

One of the hardest - and most painful - things that I faced while going through all this was coming to terms with reality. You know, for the longest time I tried to ignore that great big elephant in the room. I always thought that if I did DB this way or that way, that she'd come back. Never did. And going on two weeks divorced now.

Another thing that I had to realize was that everything - and all the answers to my crazy posts back then - was geared toward helping me become the best that I can. If the ex were to come back, then what would have been a by-product of it all...but she didn't, and I learned through all of the awesome help on here is that I could stand on my own two feet without my legs feeling as if they would collapse.

I never thought I'd come to grips with losing her - my wife, best friend, and lover - but I did. I find that I'm better than OK now. My future isn't the one I wanted, but its the hand I was dealt. I have two amazing kids that need me to be the best that I can, and that's where my heart and life lies.

You have this...and you, too, will be better than fine.