Here again 2

[T384]

Sandi- I don't feel you're pushing at all but I have to feel like I'm doing something to prevent this from getting worse. I really just want some type of improvement before baby comes. Whether it be him being more interested or at least not full fledge pursuing divorce.

I know I have to focus on baby but I am a strong person and I can't just focus on that. I have to feel like I'm doing something. I know doing nothing is something but I have to feel like I'm doing something to try and save my M. If that makes sense. If nothing is working towards me saving my M and/or doing less harm then so be it. But I don't want to just do nothing for my own sanity because in reality in my brain if I don't feel like I'm doing something for my M then I will go insane because it eats away at me. It's something I have to work on to try and just be instead of controlling the situation. I know I have come a long way because las time H complained I was controlling. He hasn't once uttered those words. Just not trusted and unappreciated.

I know H is only still here because it's cheaper and I'm having a baby and he doesn't want to be seen as the bad guy. But I need to use the part that he's still here toward something. I want him to miss me. To miss my touch etc.

I believe I can do what you say... I did it last time and was successful. It's just that last time he was angry at least showed some emotion. This time nothing. No emotion. Just stoic. Like he doesn't give a [censored]. He asked me how I knew things would be different. I said I don't but I didn't know it would be different when you came back but I took a chance because we were both willing to work at it. I wanted to take a chance instead of wondering for the rest of my life WHAT IF

Anyway... so how the hell do I act. If he doesn't talk to me in the house or the car do I not initiate any conversation. I will ask about his day after work but what about other times in the house? He usually sits on the couch at night watching TV and I go to my room and do school work. I should just continue to do that right? And when we're out together as a family do I initiate conversation or just talk with the boys and leave it at that? I'm sorry I'm so needy. I just don't want to come off cold but I don't want to come off pushy or trying too hard


Previous thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2733746#Post2733746

[Sotto]

Hi TO, I'm sorry to read about the condoms - ugh - I recall (searching and) finding condoms at our city flat and it was a horrible moment.

I want you to have a think about the desperation in your posts. I understand you may hope to save your marriage, but please don't turn yourself inside out for a guy who isn't behaving reasonably in any case. I think we all come to regret doing that - it's a self-respect thing. I think it's much better if you can think - hey, if he wants to act like this, that's up to him and on him - needn't ruin my day. He may or may not turn back to the marriage - that's also up to him and on him.

I think you can stop worrying about the - should I do this or that - as long as you have minimal and pleasant interactions, that's all you need to aim for and don't overthink it. Just think - lodger/neighbour - and how he feels about that is up to him. He's the one behaving poorly after all.

Now then, channel your inner mama bear and focus on baby growing inside and getting ready to come into the world. You need to conserve yourself and your strength for that and let go of the need to try and fix this now. There is no silver bullet and the best you can do is hold your head high, be minimally pleasant, be there for yourself, baby and your boys....and then you can review at some future stage.

Xx

[T384]

I understand. I'm struggling. It is just so embarrassing to be here again.

I'm sitting at soccer today it was an hour and a half drive with minimal conversation. I initiated a bit he was short so I just rode silent the rest of the way

He. We got here. He didn't carry anything for me and set his chair up to sit next to parents at the other end so we sat on opposite ends of the fields. It's so embarrassing to me. It's so obvious to everyone. He's all chatty talkative and laughing with everyone else. How can someone snap their fingers and hate me so much. The first weekend of march we travelled out of town and stayed at a hotel for soccer and had agent time. Everything was normal and fine. I'm just [censored] over this treatment.

[25yearsmlc]

Sweet T0, slow down....take some breaths. (Literally, the act of slowly exhaling and inhaling can calm us). You are spinning a bit much.

Sandi- I don't feel you're pushing at all but I have to feel like I'm doing something to prevent this from getting worse.

Well sometimes all we can assess is what would make it worse, and Not doing that.

I really just want some type of improvement before baby comes. Whether it be him being more interested or at least not full fledge pursuing divorce.


Would some time around each other but not fighting or behaving in passive aggressive behavior or studying him with a microscope, be an improvement? My gut says yes.


I know I have to focus on baby but I am a strong person and I can't just focus on that.

look at this sentence^^^... Stop the spinning.


I have to feel like I'm doing something. I know doing nothing is something but I have to feel like I'm doing something to try and save my M. If that makes sense.

See above. STOP SPINNING & TAKE A STEP BACK


If nothing is working towards me saving my M and/or doing less harm then so be it.

THIS^^^^ IS TRUE...it's about all we can know in your situation is to stop making it worse. Do less harm. Stabilize.
Repetitive talks &questions about whether he wants to be married or not, are not serving your interests.


But I don't want to just do nothing for my own sanity because in reality in my brain if I don't feel like I'm doing something for my M then I will go insane because it eats away at me.


No one is saying to "Do nothing". We are just asking you to stop making it worse for you and the baby, for now...

UNLESS you can't. In which case you ask him to leave.

But you are doing the one thing that has not worked and seems to make it worse,

you are making it harder for you AND him.

Either let go of the results (just for 5 weeks!) till the baby is here,

or hire a PI to confirm an OW, now, and if it's yes, make him leave

but if it's no...then what? Keep asking him about how he feels/thinks/plans/wants/??

You want certainty where there is none.

It's because it's uncertain.

let it be uncertain.

Don't ask, you may confirm things for H. STFU.

Switch off, detach from the outcome.

Let it unfold

*We often are so eager to know the outcome now and eliminate ambiguity and uncertainty.

*Pushing for certainty will most often result in pushing WAS away and towards being certain they want out.


HOWEVER, T0, you are pregnant and this is your 2nd round. So,

If you are going to keep spinning and if you really cannot handle the uncertainty any longer, or keeping the peace for now, I understand. I do.

But that^^ is your answer then, isn't it?

It's something I have to work on to try and just be instead of controlling the situation. I know I have come a long way because las time H complained I was controlling. He hasn't once uttered those words. Just not trusted and unappreciated.


But, control is something to work on, now, regardless of his views. You feel out of control and that's not good for you. What can you do to address that?

I know H is only still here because it's cheaper and I'm having a baby and he doesn't want to be seen as the bad guy.

Mind reading. ^^^^^ Useless, self inflicted waste of time.


But I need to use the part that he's still here toward something. I want him to miss me. To miss my touch etc.


You cannot control this.(!) All you can do is become a woman only a fool would leave.



I believe I can do what you say... I did it last time and was successful. It's just that last time he was angry at least showed some emotion. This time nothing. No emotion. Just stoic. Like he doesn't give a [censored].

more mind reading. What if he thinks you are a purple lesbian dinosaur?

How much should you worry about ridding the home of all purple things?

And "acting straight"?? Let go of what you think he thinks/feels/says/does/wants/needs/THINKS he needs/wants, etc.



He asked me how I knew things would be different. I said I don't but I didn't know it would be different when you came back but I took a chance because we were both willing to work at it. I wanted to take a chance instead of wondering for the rest of my life WHAT IF


Oh T0...take a breath and step back. Letting go of the outcome for now, would be a huge DIFFERENT thing for you to do, wouldn't it?

Anyway... so how the hell do I act. If he doesn't talk to me in the house or the car do I not initiate any conversation. I will ask about his day after work but what about other times in the house? He usually sits on the couch at night watching TV and I go to my room and do school work. I should just continue to do that right? And when we're out together as a family do I initiate conversation or just talk with the boys and leave it at that? I'm sorry I'm so needy. I just don't want to come off cold but I don't want to come off pushy or trying too hard

T0, there are tons of suggestions about how to behave. Don't over think this.

If I were in your shoes AND IF I decided to table the marital issues till after the baby came,

I would affirm myself and remind myself of what a worthy woman I am, and be at peace. That's not doormat behavior.

Don't worry about your uncle or your mothers comments. They will support you in time if not now. Don't let any smoke in your eyes.

Keep your focus on the coming baby and your boys and your work and your health!

Your plate is full.

[T384]

I get it 25. I really do. I'm tying to turn the switch off of caring. I guess I'm just in denial

Just when I think I can do it then he treats me like he did today and it hurts me so much.

Then I'm back to being upset and feeling so disrespected that I just want to scream.

[Sotto]

I don't think it's about not caring. I still care about my XH. I hope he lives a good life and gets what he wants for himself.

It's more about attachment. He behaves and you react. Today he treated you...and you feel upset and disrespected.

Of course I understand how you would feel that way - but trying to interact with him as a husband - ie: trying to talk about how you feel, how he feels and why he behaved that way, will be counterproductive.

So, it's important to learn to manage your own emotions because if you guys do stay together, there's probably going to be more of this 'out' kind of behaviour.

For me, a big learning point was - it's not all about me. In the early days, XH would do something and I would think - Wow, I must really be X or Y for him to do that. But I have come to see that - whilst I wasn't a perfect spouse, just a pretty good one - the stuff he was doing was more about him.

It didn't reflect on me! Or at least I took from it what I could and I left some of it with him. Because it wasn't mine.

And as for the embarrassment and the views of others - I wouldn't worry about either of these things. His current behaviour is on him. And this is your life to live as you see fit - now how your Mum sees it or your Uncle.

I hope tomorrow is a better day for you. You are being advised by some wise ladies in Sandy and 23yrsMLC. Do make time to read back over your last thread and look for the things that are being said by pretty much everyone - normally that's the right way to go with things.

Xx

[T384]

That's what my dad keeps telling me. This isn't about me this is him. Whether it's me or a supermodel he would do the same thing because he isn't happy with himself and I am his scapegoat.

My dad and mom want me to tell him to leave and stop tolerating his behavior. My dad said I'm being a punching bag and what he did last time is coming and I'm just sitting around waiting for it to happen. He said he can tell H has turned off the switch and has wrote me off just like last time. I hate knowing that he's usually right.

He's moved his things to the other room and is keeping his laundry separate. My dad said each day he's separating himself more. What more.of a clue do I need that it's over. It's very hard to hear that.

Tomorrow
Marks 2 weeks. I can't believe it. 2 weeks ago we had our first talk and he told me he just needed a couple days to get over being angry about me not trusting him but that everything would be fine. Crazy how it went from that to divorce. This is the first time he's mentioned divorce since 3 years ago and how odd it's the exact same time of year.

My dad said the only thing that's going to snap him into reality is him having to leave and see what life will be like not here. I don't want him to go but I don't want him here if he's just going to keep separating himself from me further and further.

i feel like he needs to have a talk with the boys if he's moving all his stuff out of our bedroom. Our youngest alreeady asks him every night why he's not sleeping with me or kissing me goodnight or even saying goodnight.

I read through most of my old threads from when I first joined last night.

I guess I'm just scared and feeling so negative because this is the second time. Not good chances of it working out. I also know it's not good because he's been down this road and knows what it's like and is still willing to go through with this.

So he said the other night he would go to counseling alone and then together. Do I make an appointment for him? He will be seeing the C we saw when we R. He never made the appointments before I always did so this isn't out of the norm.

And ya I hope tomorrow is better. Today wasn't good minus watching my sons soccer game. And I have been super emotional the last couple hours. I came home and my boys told me to stay in the house. They came inn and got me and surprised me that they washed and cleaned my car inside and out. I love them so but it makes me cry. I even cry just thinking about what good kids they are and that he wants to leave this life.

The boys were asking about going to the mountains for Memorial Day like we always do. He already started telling them he wouldn't be able to get off work. Which is BS. It just makes me sad he's already planning out so far ahead to not be around.

[25yearsmlc]

T0,

I'm not sure you are ready for it to end at all. Not that you should be ready, or should not be. Just that you seem to be negotiating internally.

You'll say you're ready for "him to leave IF IF IF" he will say or do OR FEEL, a certain way,

or you want him out "UNLESS he..."

so you are giving him ALL the power that rightfully and exclusively belongs to you.

Who can change that?

That's what my dad keeps telling me. This isn't about me this is him. Whether it's me or a supermodel he would do the same thing because he isn't happy with himself and I am his scapegoat.

My dad and mom want me to tell him to leave and stop tolerating his behavior. My dad said I'm being a punching bag and what he did last time is coming and I'm just sitting around waiting for it to happen. He said he can tell H has turned off the switch and has wrote me off just like last time. I hate knowing that he's usually right.

He's moved his things to the other room and is keeping his laundry separate. My dad said each day he's separating himself more. What more.of a clue do I need that it's over. It's very hard to hear that.

Tomorrow
Marks 2 weeks. I can't believe it. 2 weeks ago we had our first talk and he told me he just needed a couple days to get over being angry about me not trusting him but that everything would be fine. Crazy how it went from that to divorce. This is the first time he's mentioned divorce since 3 years ago and how odd it's the exact same time of year.

I'm not sure it matters - but weren't you the first to use the D word?


My dad said the only thing that's going to snap him into reality is him having to leave and see what life will be like not here. I don't want him to go but I don't want him here if he's just going to keep separating himself from me further and further.

you are swinging from wanting him to go, to wanting him to fight to stay...

T0 you are clearly very undecided. I would not demand that he leave, OR that he demand to stay...
He's not a mind reader and he isn't of the mind to fight to stay married right now.

i feel like he needs

It is not your job to decide what he "needs" to say to his/your sons. Get out of his sandbox.

Besides, down deep I think you are trying to guilt him into wanting to stay. Something tells me he is not the type of guy to feel guilt AND then slap his forehead to awaken.

He's more likely to fend off any guilt to morph it into blame. He could say you are "making" him do this and you are "Forcing" him to leave and blah blah blah.

Don't fuel that.


to have a talk with the boys if he's moving all his stuff out of our bedroom.


NOT your job to force this. I also notice the use of the word "IF"....b/c you do not want him to move his stuff out of the bedroom...correct?

have you told him that? Are you too angry to tell him to stay?


Our youngest alreeady asks him every night why he's not sleeping with me or kissing me goodnight or even saying goodnight.

all the more reason not to force an explanation from him, to them. Plus it is arguably a talk explaining something he feels forced to do.

I read through most of my old threads from when I first joined last night.

I guess I'm just scared and feeling so negative because this is the second time. Not good chances of it working out. I also know it's not good because he's been down this road and knows what it's like and is still willing to go through with this.



Of course you are afraid. Hmmm, what option do you think HE sees right now?

Second, who knows what the chances of working out are? Most recovering alcoholics have 2 relapses. It's not exactly the same, but still, they didn't give up. They fell down, they picked themselves up and dusted themselves off...and moved forward.

T0, This is Not what you need to worry about, at the moment.

You continue to obsess about him and I see zero value in that.


So he said the other night he would go to counseling alone and then together. Do I make an appointment for him?

God, No. Please Get out of HIS sandbox.

You are hovering over his shoulder to make him put the puzzle piece in just the way you want him to. But it's his puzzle and maybe he doesn't want to do a puzzle right now. IF and WHEN he does, he will.

Also, is this a test? What are you hoping will happen?

Did you guys see a counselor when you reconciled?


He will be seeing the C we saw when we R. He never made the appointments before I always did so this isn't out of the norm.

this is you trying to control the outcome, again. It's NOT helping you. Plus you will wonder IF he would have gone without your arranging it all.

Back off...back WAY off no matter what else happens. Too many tests and set ups...

And ya I hope tomorrow is better. Today wasn't good minus watching my sons soccer game. And I have been super emotional the last couple hours. I came home and my boys told me to stay in the house. They came inn and got me and surprised me that they washed and cleaned my car inside and out. I love them so but it makes me cry. I even cry just thinking about what good kids they are and that he wants to leave this life.

I bet Brene Brown's (Ted Talk) words will resonate with you. She talks about the paradox of love and our vulnerability. She talks about how we sometimes do not trust our joy.

Because when we have joy/love in our life, then we fear the other shoe will drop. It's as if We hate the vulnerability of receiving love. It's as if deep love is attached to the fear of losing it.

Yet we crave and need love. Do you see how your boys gave you a wonderful gift, and then you held it up to the light to find the flaw in it? NOT b/c you are a bad woman. But b/c you are terrified and emotional and wanting so badly to control your life more.

Being 8 months pregnant in an uncertain marriage, is damn hard.

Sometimes I reflect on the millions of pregnant women out there right now. Women who don't know the whereabouts of their partners, or whether they'll have enough food tonight. OR where they will deliver their babies, or if they'll be alone when they deliver or if the baby will be healthy, this time ....


T0, don't rain on your own love parade. Let your son's love - comfort and strengthen you.


The boys were asking about going to the mountains for Memorial Day like we always do. He already started telling them he wouldn't be able to get off work. Which is BS. It just makes me sad he's already planning out so far ahead to not be around.

1) Stop mind reading. 2) Start making plans for a wonderful trip. The baby will be here YAY, and I'm betting someone can drive and go with you.

3) Start making plans for a wonderful life with your 3 God given joys...

and T0, be at peace.

[T384]

You're right. I'm not ready for a decision and yes I brought up divorce first. When he said he was done I said as in a divorce and he shrugged his shoulders like a yes.

I moved his stuff out to the living room when I did laundry. Well I left his clean laundry there. I asked him if he was going to keep his stuff there. First he said no but when I asked again a few days later as stuff accumulated he said yes. I asked him if he was going to move everything out and he said I don't know.

I've gone 2 whole days with no R talk. Haha watch out. He called my grandmother yesterday. She called me today. She loves him dearly and told me she can't think badly of him regardless of what happens because she thinks he's confused. She said things seem worse this time based on what I told her. And it's moving worse much quicker. It stung to hear that. Anyway I guess he called her and told her he bought a motorcycle. That he wants something to do with his friends alone where he can just be. He also told her he doesn't feel like anyone in the house appreciates him. He feels like I don't appreciate him as a husband working hard and that all I do is doubt his intentions. She told me I need to be still. To leave him be. Basically everything you all are telling me. I'm wondering if she's on this board lol. It was hard to hear that she thinks he isn't going to find his way back to me this time. Last time she was much more positive.

Anyway, I didn't say anything about what I found in the bag this morning. I had a nice time watching my son win his game and we went to lunch after the 4 of us and H is the one who initiated it. I didn't order, he offered to share. We didn't talk much on the way home actually at all. I initiated some conversation on the way there and he was short so I took it as time to stop talking. So I rode in silence. Came home and I said I was going to the grocery store. H came with me. I told him he didn't have to go because he had told me he wanted to work in the garage but he said it was fine. Came home and he went outside I hung in with the boys put them to bed and am watching TV while he's in and out of the garage and and watching tv in the living room.

Tomorrow I'm back at my full schedule which will keep me busy and less time HOPEFULLY to worry about H. I don't have any desire to talk to him about our R. He knows where I stand. He knows I'm hurting and that's it. I have C tomorrow. H had said he would go alone and then we could go together but I agree I'm not going to make the appointment. I always made his appointments before because it's through my work and has to be done by me with my work ID. This is the C we saw when we R. So he knows our history and has spent a lot of time with us. He s very pro marriage so in not sure if his guidance will help me because H is not in a place to receive that kind of stuff. I'm hoping H will go at some point just as someone for him to talk to because he keeps everything pent up inside and doesn't know how to deal with it.

Anyway, it's my oldest birthday Friday so the boys and I will have a good weeekend. H's grandparents also are in town so I will see them with the boys. I'm just going to forge on and try to remove my self from his path of hurt.
Mi just have to figure out how to get back to the friendly neighbor and as if attitude. It took me awhile last time but I'm hoping to get there very soon. It's easy to make decisions when you don't have to live with the consequences yet and I think that's where we are.

[25yearsmlc]

T0,

what would backing off look like to you? I see you pressing and pushing and pursuing. What is that about?

What are you expecting him to say if you repeat the same line of thought after he has indicated he doesn't know yet?

You're right. I'm not ready for a decision and yes I brought up divorce first. When he said he was done I said as in a divorce and he shrugged his shoulders like a yes.

I moved his stuff out to the living room when I did laundry. Well I left his clean laundry there. I asked him if he was going to keep his stuff there. First he said no

[b]

but when I asked again a few days later as stuff accumulated he said yes. I asked him if he was going to move everything out and he said I don't know.

I've gone 2 whole days with no R talk.




Haha watch out. He called my grandmother yesterday. She called me today. She loves him dearly and told me she can't think badly of him regardless of what happens because she thinks he's confused. She said things seem worse this time based on what I told her. Just being the 2nd time might also be a factor to her.

she said he's confused...AND "based on what you told her". What do you think of that?

And it's moving worse much quicker. It stung to hear that. Anyway I guess he called her and told her he bought a motorcycle. That he wants something to do with his friends alone where he can just be. He also told her he doesn't feel like anyone in the house appreciates him. He feels like I don't appreciate him as a husband working hard and that all I do is doubt his intentions. She told me I need to be still. To leave him be. Basically everything you all are telling me.

Well, can it really hurt?? Your baby is due in a month....MUST you resolve this now?

I'm wondering if she's on this board lol. It was hard to hear that she thinks he isn't going to find his way back to me this time. Last time she was much more positive.

Well, what can you do about that? Ever try the Serenity Prayer?


Anyway, I didn't say anything about what I found in the bag this morning.

I know that haunts you. It would hurt. I'm just taking a 2 fold approach. One, get you through the next few months. Second, deal with what happens afterwards. You can see a L soon if that helps you feel empowered. Maybe knowing your rights will make you feel you are not trapped.

I had a nice time watching my son win his game and we went to lunch after the 4 of us and H is the one who initiated it.

Yay!!


I didn't order, he offered to share.

Is there a reason you didn't order?

We didn't talk much on the way home actually at all. I initiated some conversation on the way there and he was short so I took it as time to stop talking. So I rode in silence. Came home and I said I was going to the grocery store. H came with me.

That may be a big thing for him. it's not estranged behavior.


I told him he didn't have to go because he had told me he wanted to work in the garage but he said it was fine.

how about not uninviting him, next time? Just accept his gestures and if you can't muster a thank you (which i understand), at least accept them?


Came home and he went outside I hung in with the boys put them to bed and am watching TV while he's in and out of the garage and and watching tv in the living room.

Tomorrow I'm back at my full schedule which will keep me busy and less time HOPEFULLY to worry about H.

Good!

I don't have any desire to talk to him about our R.

YAY!

He knows where I stand. He knows I'm hurting and that's it. I have C tomorrow. H had said he would go alone and then we could go together but I agree I'm not going to make the appointment. I always made his appointments before because it's through my work and has to be done by me with my work ID. This is the C we saw when we R. So he knows our history and has spent a lot of time with us. He s very pro marriage so in not sure if his guidance will help me because H is not in a place to receive that kind of stuff. I'm hoping H will go at some point just as someone for him to talk to because he keeps everything pent up inside and doesn't know how to deal with it.

Just turn it over to God, or the universe, and take care of yourself.


Anyway, it's my oldest birthday Friday so the boys and I will have a good weeekend. H's grandparents also are in town so I will see them with the boys. I'm just going to forge on and try to remove my self from his path of hurt.


[/b]
detachment is vital... I feel like it's best for the baby if you can table things for now, and gird yourself for a bit of normal turmoil with a 3rd child...and DETACH from the rest. It's HIS parade, you can buy popcorn and watch from the sidelines.

You have a lot on your plate. No need to take on more, right now. In a way, that could give you some respite. B/c you don't NEED to deal with all of this or decide anything, today...

Mi just have to figure out how to get back to the friendly neighbor and as if attitude. It took me awhile last time but I'm hoping to get there very soon. It's easy to make decisions when you don't have to live with the consequences yet and I think that's where we are.