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James66 Offline OP
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Thank you Cadet,
It's very hard to go against ones natural instinct to act but I'm holding back for now given your and Vanilla's advice.



I believe my w may be depressed and vulnerable having been left by me to run things and keep the family afloat for sooo long without my help. If she can only see the route she is taking is not for the best, that it is destroyed her family. That we can be so much better now I am largely out of my fog.

I guess you can see my predicament; either do nothing and hope my w doesn't make bad choices prior to seeing these things or try to advise her.

I am not out of the woods yet myself but I can see the pathway and I have a plan to move forward and I so desperately want to do so with my family beside me.
Thank you again,
James66

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Hi vanilla,

Thank you so much for you advice and kind words. I really appreciate the time and consideration you have given me.

I haven't sought medical help but accept that I have been low at times and may be depressed now but am very wary of my medical records mentioning anything like depression.

I work now after many years but have no benefits and it's poorly paid making it difficult to help support the family. One of my wife's issues and who can blame her. My inability to support her has I believe caused her to become depressed.

My wonderful wife has until recently always been a caring and loving person and I believe depression has changed her at least toward me.
About two years ago she said she was unhappy and wanted me to go to counseling with her. I refused for personal reasons believing we were strong together but I didn't understand how unhappy she must have been.
Now she refuses to go with me.

I have no intention of leaving the family home although I have been sleeping on the couch for a month or two. My w initially slept on the couch but she sleeps earlier than me and wants it quiet from about 9 pm. I suggested she sleep in the mbr so that she could get the rest she needed without the living room lights going out for the family. My w has since then made it her bedsit and spends most of her time there to avoid me. I wonder now if she deliberately became difficult so that I would do this. I think you and Sandi2 are correct about it being a mistake to leave the mbr and I intend to start sleeping there shortly. My w definitely thinks she is running things because she can threaten divorce and separation etc. However I feel I need to start taking charge of these things which I think wife expects of a man. I would appreciate Your advice on this matter.

I haven't written yet to my wife though the temptation is very strong for the reasons I mentioned previously and I thank you again for your advice.

Although my younger d slept over my wife didn't go out in the evening and I hope that the relationship with the o m is still off. However my w is still very disrespectful to me and I feel I need to deal with her behavior. Presently I don't initiate talk with her but I worry if I am coming over too surly your advice is much appreciated.


It's getting very late and I will write further when I can.

Thank you and all the beat,
James66

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James

These are words, not advice, my thoughts.

I am concerned for you and am going to encourage you to ask for medical help. Sometimes we are ashamed to ask, like it's a failing. Help is important and a big step.

Your M is falling apart, you have every right to be down. Chicken and egg, down and BD!

Join the club, there are many members, let me give you a T shirt, the slogan is a positive one, I am working to be a man only a fool would leave.

I am encouraging you to seek IC and medical help, come join us in this the water is lovely.

V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


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Hi James, how are you coming on reading the DR book?

I am a little confused about the time frames in which things began falling apart.

Quote:
I lost a long standing job about a decade ago. My w was very upset but supported me when I proposed training for a new career. The project was extremely difficult and required full attention over many years.

But the loss of my job destroyed my confidence and self esteem and I found it difficult to organize and to cope. I let my own insecurities and personal issues, poor organization, family and mundane issues get in the way. It was the loss of confidence and self esteem that pushed me in this career direction because I had no belief in myself and couldn't apply for jobs.


So "the project" was a new career? By saying it required full attention for many years, are you also saying you were not involved in family activities, or did not have time for your W and the raising of the children?

Quote:
About 2 years ago, my w started saying I should get a job and in hindsight I believe now she was unhappy, stressed and depressed. She was working to keep the family above water while I contributed nothing to the finances and all the pressure was on her.


This is where I get confused about the new career. Have you not worked since losing your job ten years ago? Your W has worked outside the home to financially support the family during this time?

Quote:
Shortly after their return we went out to have a heart to heart during which my wife said I must get a job. She was very insistent but I also insisted that I could not but I would finish my plans and all would be good.


Finish what plans? What were you doing during this ten year span?

I feel I can identify with your W to some extent. Your part of the M breakdown does not excuse her EA, it only explains why she was vulnerable to another man. It also tells me why she has a lot of resentment, and probably loss of respect for you.

With your issues of depression and loss of self-confidence, did you seek medical help or a counselor?

Quote:
I thought my wife understood but the finances suddenly became worse and I needed to find work fast. My wife was clearly distressed and couldn't cope.


Understood what? That you were depressed and lost your confidence over a job ten years ago?

Quote:
My wife was clearly distressed and couldn't cope. She wanted me to find employment with regular pay but I simply couldn't do this and I became self employed with a poor variable income.


As I've said, I am confused about what you did during those ten years. A woman expects her H to be responsible for the welfare of the family. If that means he has to take a regular job, so be it. She was looking at three children, who were under the age of ten a decade ago. She tried to support you, but at the end of day........she has children to feed and bills to pay. Then there was the issue of no money to go see her dying mother. That is huge, and obviously added to the resentment growing in her heart. Whether fair or not, her hurt and anger was directed to her H, b/c he was not financially contributing to needs of the family. She loses respect for her H, and when the respect is gone, the loss of loving feelings quickly follow.

Quote:
So I'm not sure what to do now. Should I stay silent but that's hard to do without seeming nasty.

Should I Message or write to her apologising for the past ?


In her current state, apologizing will have very little effect.........if you show no action to change the situation. What you really need to do is get a job. No more thinking and planning.........just get a job of some kind, and bring home a regular paycheck. Until she sees you working to support your family, an apology is not really what she wants, IMHO.

Quote:
I have thought of a new simple way to earn money which requires some training and am looking into it. It is quick to learn and something I will enjoy unlike the previous project.


Forget looking into the next project that takes even more time without a payroll check coming into the house. Look James, I have been in the shoes of your W. My H tried the self employed route, and would go for months at a time without income. No matter how understanding a woman may be, it just does something to her when she has a H who won't provide for his family. If he is in school, preparing for his career, she knows it has a time frame and he won't be in school the rest of their lives. However, going from one project to the next, does not offer the security a woman desperately needs.

My suggestion is to not discuss the OM and his lack of morals, etc. It will fall on bitter ears. She won't see the faults of the OM, b/c she only sees the faults in you. I recommend you either find the man you once were, or reinvent yourself. If you remain the same, you will lose your family.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Thank you Vanilla,
I appreciate you kind words. I may look at ic but it is important that my medical record does not show anything like depression,



butif I can avoid that I believe it would be beneficial.

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Hi Sandi2,

Thank you so much for your thoughts and suggestions.

I up to pg 280 of the D R book.



I started training for a new niche career and I have referred to that as training or my project etc. Sorry for the confusion.

I have been involved with my family during this time and
I have worked on and off and had other small sources of money but that in no way made up for our losses. I recognize that in my state of mind at the time I didn't work enough to keep the finances afloat.

I thought my wife understood my love for her and our children
and what I was trying to achieve for us.

I am currently working in a 'self employed' job being paid regularly but not well and it is dependant on the amount of work I get. This is why I am looking for a fairly short course in a particular trade but I intend to work as well.

When we met I was able to take care of my then future wife in difficult circumstances and this led to love and we married within a year. She is a wonderful woman with a great personality but I think that I have broken her. Hurt her so badly that she has become depressed and this depression has caused her to lose her love and respect for me and reach out to others.

I recognize my failings and I am trying to correct them and to be able to take care of my family but whole I am working toward my goals I want to improve my relationship with my wife and not make mistakes that may push her away or further into the arms of another.

I hope this answers your questions Sandi2 and gives you a little more insight into my situation and thinking. I'm sorry I don't yet know how to attach these answers to your quotes.

Thank you so much,
James66

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Sweetheart

Nothing you do breaks another or fixes them. Please let the idea go you can do this, harm or heal.

I ask is this behaviour something you did deliberately, from your words I doubt it. Accidentally, no I guess that's not it.

So we come down to casually? No......

Then probably without knowledge? I think so.

When you are beginning to learn and grow about being a leader of your family then you see the issues. That is so. Then you say I haven't done well.

It's ok, to learn and know that there are better ways. It's human.

I ask do you love your W?

Do you love your family?

Will you work hard to shift?

Will you give your self every chance to heal as a head of your family?

Are you open to learning to lead?

V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


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James66

I really feel for you. I too have much guilt over how I handled my career and my family's financial health. After I got here and endured months of W's spewing, accusations, etc Did I realize that it was not all of my fault. When W quit couples therapy it was because the Dr. was not buying her sob story and told her she was as much to blame.

So yes, you made mistakes - some may be harder to recover from then others - you will recover.

Get a modest financial plan in place and follow it. Don't try and take on too much. When other parts of your life are in chaos money problems magnify.

EA are brutal - I know.

The best advice I got from the DB books was to do things differently. It changes your outlook and opens up new horizons. If you normally wear jeans - switch to dress pants. If you buy your coffee from Starbucks - take a thermos, If you shop at Walmart go to Target.

I assure you small amounts of sun will pour into your dark days.


M:50
W:53
MR:20
D:21
S:17
S:11
BD-Sept 2015
Suspected PA Sept 2015-Confronted W & OM Dec 2015
Actually EA
In house Sep:Jan/16-May 2016
W moved out:May 22 2016
OM-Intro Oct/17-On scene July/Aug 2017
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Thank you for answering my questions.

Quote:
I thought my wife understood my love for her and our children
and what I was trying to achieve for us.


This statement caused me to remember a movie I had seen many years ago. The W complained that her H would not occassionally tell her he loved her. His answer was that he told once and if his feelings changed, then he would let her know. smile

Perhaps your W did understand, but didn't neccessessarily agree/approve the outcome for her and the family. Even if we understand and agree, I think most women want reassurance from their H, in some manner. It's not enough that my H pledged his love on our wedding day, I want to "hear" him say ILY, and fairly often. More importantly, I want to "see" his love in action. I believe this is where the book about the 5 love languages might be very beneficial for your situation.

Was the communication very plain when you explained to your W exactly what you wanted to achieve? Did you give her an estimated window of time that it would take for you to achieve it? Was it something she could support and cheer for you in your accomplishments?

Quote:
When we met I was able to take care of my then future wife in difficult circumstances and this led to love and we married within a year.


Sounds like you were her knight in shining armor. smile It's kind of difficult to resist that attraction. Behind the armor, was a man who had confidence. Male confidence ranks extremely high in attraction. It is one of the first traits women see in a man. It's very important in the relationship, and I think it helps to boost the respect she has for him.

Quote:
She is a wonderful woman with a great personality but I think that I have broken her. Hurt her so badly that she has become depressed and this depression has caused her to lose her love and respect for me and reach out to others.


Perhaps both of you have seen each other's worst side. She will have to take responsibility for her actions, just as you must take ownership for yours.

I want to ask you some very important questions. Do you want to change the man you have become? Are you willing to go outside your comfort box and do whatever is necessary to achieve self-confidence and grow into a better version of James? And, are you ready to start the work?


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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James, sorry you are here. I know it's so hard.

Originally Posted By: James66
Hi cadet,
thank you for your kind words and sage advice. I am currently gal returned to M/arts and my 2 daughters are coming with me. It's really


heart warming to share this with them.

Also making my way through Sandi2's posts which are very insightful and sleeping me greatly to understand.

I wish to know opinions about the following.
The O M has last week dropped my wife saying that he doesn't want to come between us( re my first post).
My w is still showing me disrespect and is clearly upset at his leaving and emmotionaly hooked.

I wonder if I should write or email her apologising for my part in the breakdown of our relationship which I believe is substantial and also warn that any relationship she starts on tinder is likely to fail (knowing it has temporarily at least)stating that men on there are normally after fun rather than the relationship she craves and may manipulate to get their way.

say nothing about OM and do not "warn" her about anything unless it's an ultimatum you really will enforce (which I am NOT suggesting).

So, no "warnings". As for an apology, I think it would be a lot stronger if were backed up with action.

Plus, I get the feeling she has resented bearing the financial burden much longer than you realize. It has been building a long time. Not being able to see her mother is just one dimension of what she has done without. I'm not trying to bash you more, just trying to explain why an apology letter for not working, isn't going to overwhelm her.

Better to job hunt??

Sometimes just moving in a direction is better than waiting to know exactly where you want to go.


(I am worried that this may be the case and she has just arranged for our youngest to be out the way for the first time since he dropped her).

Thanks and best wishes to all.



What are you working on with you?

She's not happy in this marriage, so you can't convince her to "Be happy in THIS marriage"

partly b/c she has reason for feeling frustrated. Most women want to feel protected by their h's and to feel secure, which includes some financial security.

Second, talking someone into feeling something they have not felt in awhile, isn't likely to work.

So what about changing the dynamics in THIS marriage - so that if she recommits,

it'll be a better, different, improved marriage?

What would that look like?


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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