Hi Everyone, I can't believe this is where I am. I can't believe that this is my life. I don't understand what it is God wants from me, what my wife wants from me, what I am supposed to do. Ive been living in a state of confusion and delusion for so many months, things seem almost unbearable. The pain of abandonment and rejection, the sense of loss, the devastation and doom of a potential divorce and the feelings that are going along with it now. It's Tuesday night at 10 pm and I'm sitting down to write this after putting down my 6 kids (D-12, D-10,D-10,D-10 (yes, triplets) D-9 (special needs), S-8)to bed by myself. My wife and I have been separated and nesting for about four weeks and I'm coming apart. Literally depressed much of the time, walk around like a zombie. Tonight, one of my daughters age 10 said, Dad why are you so sad, when I was putting her to bed. I said, "honey why do you say i'm sad" and then she imitated me, pointed her eyes to the floor and said in an undertone, imitating me, "why do you say I'm sad?" I told her I am sad. I am sad to be separated. She asks me why I don't tell Mommy. I say, Mommy knows. And then she says, "well maybe if you weren't so sad mommy would want to be around you." Those words are so painful, on so many levels. I've been battling the absolutely horrible feelings for rejection from my wife for so many months. She has turned down all my attempts at being intimate (even hugging) for over a year, at every turn, my wife has a cold face and if there is an occasional thaw, it is back to ice a day or two later.
My wife and I seemingly had it all - money, home, community, pillars of our community, and 18 months ago it all started crashing. There are so many factors at work that started the long descent, but my entire life started to unravel back in Sept of 2015, my only sister got diagnosed with breast cancer, I got into two lawsuits at work, one which involved her family (ultra high net worth), I started fighting with a business partner, and my wife started going through menopause. She is 4.5 years older than I am. I am 45, she is almost 50. So between spending time at the hospital with my sister for her chemo visits and surgery, the lawsuits, my wife complaining, we went to the same marriage therapist we had been seeing since 2012, and she basically says to my wife, after my wife lists all the complaints about me - my wife's position at the time was, "I know what I want, and Im going to get it. If you cant give it to me, Im going to get it somewhere else, because I deserve it and am entitled to it" I don't know what "it" was - but clearly she had something in mind. She swears 1000 ways to one she was not having an affair with anyone. So our therapists tells my wife, "listen, you have to stop acting like donald trump. your position with her your husband is, he needs to get it right or you are going to fire him. frankly, i am afraid to work with you like this - you even make me nervous with trying to help you. you need to grow up. You need to be intimate with your husband, its going to kill your marriage if you cut him off." And my wife flips and fires her (this is a woman my wife idolized so much for years - she sent two of her sisters to see her and many of her friends). I've remained in touch with this therapist, she says she is so sad to see what is happening to us, she cannot believe who my wife has chosen to see as her individual therapist (a well known feminist marriage buster) and even sent my wife an email a few weeks ago saying that the husband she always wanted was right in front of her. But my wife is shut down.
So, back to the story. We got into a huge argument about some stupid money issue this summer, I lost it on her, screamed at her in anger (this rage has come out 2-3 times since our marriage has started to descend to hell - i inherited this from my father and grandfather - I know its an area I need to contain - and for the most part - I have). But this was a major blow up, I felt completely stressed, and we decided to take a break from each other for two weeks over the summer, and during that separation, the same day I was leaving my sister at the hospital from her final reconstructive surgery for breast cancer, my wife received a call from her doctor that her mammogram showed she had invasive breast cancer. So - the craziness begins, my wife goes through surgery, radiation, has her ovaries removed. She is furious at me the whole time, and asks me not to be in the recovery room when she comes out of surgery, tells me she doesn't want me to go to doctors appointments with her, etc. Has her reasons, says my attempts at humor were inappropriate to her, etc etc. I don't get it. They caught the cancer very early in my wife. Her prognosis is absolutely excellent. Could not be better actually. She is thank God just fine. She is on femara (anti estrogen medicine) for 10 years, which does cause hormonal changes. She has hot flashes. Her doctor wanted her to take lexapro an anti depressant but she refused because she doesn't want it to dull her feelings (this drives me NUTS!).
It all started to unravel back in 2026 january with the marriage. There was a flood in our apartment while I was away on business and she was terrified the entire roof was going to collapse. I wasn't here to see it, but she decided to open up that night to my best friend about our marriage, telling him she is not happy with me. I don't have many friends, this is the only one who I was really close to, literally my best friend. He is actually divorced and a marriage counselor so maybe she thought he could help. Or maybe it was an emotional affair. I don't know. But they continued to communicate intermittently about our marriage for months. He told me he was trying to save my marriage. After I realized what was going on (my therapist said he was really crossing boundaries) we got into a fight and agreed never to speak again. So that friendship of 15 years is now over.
A little about me, this is my second marriage. My first marriage ended in divorce with no children when I was 28. I didn't want that marriage to end either. It was to a girl I had met in college, we dated for six years and then married for two. I suspect she was having an affair on me (or maybe multiple affairs) - we clearly did not have a healthy marriage, but I loved her and wanted to make it work. She demanded out. A year later, she married one of my closest friends in the world. (see the pattern here?)
I moved away and adopted a religious lifestyle, found meaning in studying, prayer, connecting, etc. Met my second wife 2 years after the divorce, and we got married and things seemed good at first. I had started a business which was relatively high profile and was high risk, but after two years had to shut it down. I started a business with my brother in law to manage a portion of the assets my wife's father had put into trust for his daughter and her sisters. He and I have worked together now for 10 years, and we have had a pretty good track record. Professionally, I have never been truly satisfied, but who really is? I started a few businesses, several of them have done well, I started several philanthropic initiatives, and a few of them have gone on to help a lot of people, but I don't get much satisfaction out of these accomplishments.
The only thing I really enjoy is my children, and seeing them grow. My wife and I obviously had a tough time raising 6 kids born so close together, at one point we had 6 kids at home under the age of 4.
My wife now swears the marriage has been bad since the start, she has gone over and over and over all the negative things in our marriage, literally bringing up things that happened more than a decade over and over. Each time I try to explain, or just to validate her feelings. I'm trying all the tactics, read the DB book, working with a coach.
My wife and I have been through three marriage therapists in the past year, she fired the first one, the second one petered out because my wife asked for a divorce, and then she decided to give it one last try after our children asked her to go see a Rabbi with me. The Rabbi introduced us to a therapist who I like who focused on "EFT" Emotionally Focused Therapy - whatever that means - and now my wife is starting not to like her. Guess why? Because SHE IS SAYING THE SAME EXACT THING THE LAST TWO THERAPISTS have been telling her. She has to learn to see both sides of the marriage, she needs to be intimate (my wife refused all intimacy - even hand holding - more than a year ago), etc etc.
I am not innocent. Not at all. I have had a difficult time with life. Was diagnosed with a mood disorder at 21 which has mostly meant unipolar depression bouts, I occasionally used marijuana or pornography to numb the pain of my life, and developed somewhat of an addiction to the compulsive use of the internet to keep myself distracted (and disconnected).
I got into 12 step recovery to start working on my compulsive use of the internet and codependency (even though I had not really used pornography for 11 years I recognized that I had problems with intimacy with my wife). The recovery work was really liberating, I enjoyed the meetings, sharing my feelings, working with a sponsor, and even got sponsees to work with.
The problem was, as my wife now sees it, she was upset in the marriage, begging for my attention, and instead of turning to her, I turned to recovery and put all the 12 step work in front of her. This is not my experience at all. In fact, my wife had completely shut me out when she saw I started working on addiction patterns in my life. It turns out, she has a father who is a sex addict, and her first husband and boyfriends all struggled with similar challenges, so my getting into recovery I believe forced her to confront what she was dealing with for much of her life.
Unfortunately, she got totally caught up in the "label" of having an "addict" for a husband, and I tried everything to be totally honest and open with her. This past summer, we even did a three day intensive "disclosure" where I disclosed my entire history with acting out (I have never had an affair or EA in our 14 years of marriage).
So there is the recovery piece, which I have now kind of gotten fed up with myself. I am glad I worked the 12 steps, greatly value the fellowship I developed, but after seeing that most of the guys I knew in recovery had gotten their marriages back on track, I realize my situation is a little different.
I started to work intensely on myself back in September I went to a program in Arizona for 2 weeks two work on myself, during this time, my wife called into the program and said she wanted a divorce. I was devastated and went into shock. I proposed we have a therapeutic separation to try and work the marriage out and see if we could salvage things. She refused.
I returned home for a week, her therapist and my therapist agreed we would have a joint session to at least discuss this. During the session, both my therapist and me were blindsided by her therapist, who said bluntly - "Its time to give up hope, its hard to do, but your marriage is over." I got frustrated and started to walk out, and her therapist said, "Look, there's that anger again." This is a woman I cannot believe my wife has chosen to see. Our first marriage therapist warned both my wife and I that if we saw this woman, she would blame the man, that is what she always does and is known for. For whatever reason, my wife decided to go see her as her individual therapist. Guess what, that's whats been happening for months. (Even today, I saw she was texting my wife - one of the texts said "You are still not being heard by your husband. You told him X and he did y!" I could not believe it, honestly it confirms the feelings I've been having about this whole situation for months.
But there is nothing I can do about it - it's so frustrating. My wife sees her therapist two maybe three times a week. She is the same therapist who her niece and sister see, its just so sad. Anyway, when her therapist said this, I looked at my wife and told her I needed to go out to a recovery place in arizona for six weeks to check myself in and work on her request to divorce. She freaked out. She said I can't do it. I said I needed to take care of myself and I was leaving on Monday. It was the hardest thing I ever did. I got on a plane and checked myself into a rehab facility - I was totally sober, with a bunch of wonderful addicts struggling to get to sobriety, and I was just there to try and buy time. Well, after three weeks, my wife unilaterally decided to tell the kids we were divorcing and she sent an email to the facility telling them this. I left the program and had to return home to deal with the madness in my home. My kids were obviously devastated, I was in shock again, not sure how she could do this unilaterally. Anyway, fast forward a couple weeks and suddenly my wife agrees to a separation. She tried to trick me to get me to move out without telling me she had consulted with the most famous and aggressive divorce attorney in NYC. Luckily I found out about it, and was able to work to show her it wasn't going to be that simple. So we agreed to a "nesting" arrangement, where - get this - each of us moves from our main apartment down to a one bedroom guest apartment we have in our building every other night, and weekends we switch off.
So, I'm coming apart. Every time I need to leave my apartment and be without my kids, I walk into this tiny one bedroom hotel room, get depressed, want to cry (often do for a long time) try to make calls to my support system, try to make plans to meet other friends - but here's the rub - i don't really have too many close friends. We life in Manhattan and my wife grew up here, she has a sister 5 blocks away who she is very close with, her mother and step father a few blocks from there, and I am literally mostly alone in this big city. I grew up in the south, small town boy, so this city has always been imposing on me. I get even more angry when I think about the weekends, my wife can run to her friends, or her sisters, and feel great about a support system. I am literally all alone. Without my family I feel lost, hopelesss, aimless. This weekend I'm flying to Miami to try and relax, but I have so much anxiety over just being away for 3 days and thinking about what I am going to do. I feel so lost.
A little about her, my poor wife has had such a difficult life. Her father is a legendary narcissistic businessman, but he treated her and her sisters in such devious ways. They are so enmeshed with him even today - he is in his 90s - and he interefears with his daughters marriages and tells them that their husbands don't know what they are doing. He has been a bully to me. When they were little, he used to weigh his daughters on a scale, used to tell them they had "fat asses" and there was the whole covert incest thing that my wife had to deal with when her parents got divorced when she was 15. Her dad had an affair with his wife's best friend and destroyed that marriage too. My wife ended up becoming her father's surrogate wife, attending all his state diners and high society functions with him and even went to work for him at his company for almost 17 years. My wife cannot stand her mother, who is still a broken woman because of the affair, and she blames her for not being able to get over it.
People see my wife as incredibly strong and tough, she takes care of everyone else, has been an amazing mother for the most part, has a full time staff take care of everything in the home, has a personal assistant to manage our lives (I know how this must sound - but its our life), but she gets everything done. The house is always spotless, she takes care of everything - our special needs daughter therapists, all the girls needs. I do love her dearly, but I am getting so frustrated and angry over these past many months.
The pain of constant rejection is wearing me down. I have had fleeting suicidal thoughts. I have been to a psychiatrist and he put me on antidepressants and mood stabilizers. He diagnosed me as atypical depression with major ADD. For many months, I have been going through an endless cycle of grieving, crying tears and screaming in pain for the death of my marriage.
So - lets get to the point - what is my wife now saying? She says, over and over, "I don't feel like you know me." "You get angry with me and I shut down" "I'm afraid of you" "You get a horrible look of frustration on your face and shut me down" "You are so tall - I'm 6'4, she is 5'2 (cant change that) and imposing" "You don't know me" "You don't want to connect to me" And I'm sitting there screaming in my mind "ARE YOU CRAZY! IM DYING TO CONNECT TO YOU - YOU ARE SHUTTING ME OUT ENTIRELY, YOU ARE WALLED OFF - YOU ARE CLOSED TO EVEN HOLDING HANDS - YOU CONSTANTLY CRITICIZE ME!"
So, for about two months, we have been seeing this new marital therapist (wife continues to see her therapist who I swear is problematic). She sat with both of us individually, then together, and my wife asked her to give an assessment of our marriage. She did - she said "I have absolutely no question your marriage can be saved. I don't know why you guys would get divorced. In fact, I think you guys are the ones made for each other to work out each others problems." Confidentially, she spoke to me alone, after speaking to my wife's therapist, and said to me, "I told her therapist in no uncertain terms I felt that if your wife choses to end the marriage, it will not be a good thing for your wife."
So, the therapist tried to get us not to separate, but my wife demanded we separate. But my wife agreed we would "date" once a week. So for the past four weeks, we've been dating. The first date, I took her to see Jerry Seinfeld, I had a blast, but it was stressful being out with her. The second date we went to the sept 11 memorial during the day, that was ok. The third date, I took her to a broadway show. That date was a disaster (two weeks ago now). We got in the cab and I was highly emotional, I had not seen the kids for a couple days, and I had a sick feeling in my stomach I wanted to just get out of the car and go back to see my kids. I didn't want to be going out to dinner with my wife and taking her to the play, I was too angry for some reason (I wasn't sure why, it was just a sense of disgust at my wife for putting the family through the situation we are in). So, we fought a few times on that date and the night ended just awfully. Then my wife had said she wanted to go away for two days and one night to see how we would feel. So we went to a hotel last week on tuesday and wednesday, and it was very difficult. I had shown her some of the videos of michelle and asked if she would be willing to go see michelle in boulder, and she said, "I cannot stand that woman. Those messages about how a woman has to get over herself she is just not that interesting, how a woman needs to be intimate with her husband even if she doesn't feel like it, I cant stand that." I said to my wife - DO YOU REALIZE THAT IS THE SAME EXACT MESSAGE WE HAVE NOW HEARD FROM THREE MARITAL THERAPISTS???
There is so much more to write. Its not believable. My wife claims her own therapist has now allowed her to "Have her voice" and she can now speak up and ask for what she wants. The problem is, she seems to think that having her voice means getting her way in everything she asks for. So there is no compromise.
AND I GET IT. MY WIFE IS IN PAIN!!! I SEE HOW MUCH SHE IS SUFFERING! I SEE HOW MUCH SHE IS DISGUSTED WITH ME. I SEE HOW FED UP SHE IS WITH ME. IT COMES ACROSS IN EVERY INTERACTION WE HAVE TOGETHER.
As I write this I just feel so much more down and confused. I don't know where to turn any longer. I feel like I just want things to end. That it's time for me to just stand up and say, lets just get divorced and get this over with because I can't take the pain any longer. I just want this to end. I just want to have a wife who cares about me and my kids and sees that I am a good person, I want to be appreciated for who I am, I'm not perfect but I can't take so much criticism. I feel like a punching bag for so long now. My wife means everything to me and I see things coming apart and I cant bear to watch it any longer.
Sorry for ranting and raving I just cant bear this much longer. I don't even understand why this had to happen. I don't want to feel sorry for myself any longer. I don't want to complain any longer. I don't want to talk about my past. Im tired of hearing from my wife all the mistakes I made. She acknowledges I am trying so much harder now, that I am a much better father, but she is saying it is not affecting her.
But then she complains about every little thing and its as if she cares TOO much about everything I do and say. If she wants a divorce I guess I want her to just pull the trigger and shoot the gun living with the gun to my head for much longer feels unbearable. Its like Im constantly being tested by her. She is watching my every move. And runs to her therapist or her sisters or her friends if i screw up. She already told them all months ago we were going to divorce. So why hasn't she already done it? She says its for the kids. And I'm like of course its for the kids. She says her feelings are just not there for me. She doesn't have feelings. She feels anxious around me. She feels uncomfortable. So lets just get it over with I say. Or just take me back.
Does anyone see hope? Is there any chance? Am I stupid? Should I just be standing up and screaming and ending this marriage myself? I know no one can tell me the answer. No one. Only time will tell. I just wish wish wish life wasn't this way. I didn't realize there could be so much misery in the world, its like being constantly beaten down. And as I write this I am beating myself up for pitying myself. I want to look at myself and say, "Hey man, be strong. You will be fine. You will get through this. You will be better because of this. Things will turn out great." But you know I have so much anger and frustration and sadness and its just getting worse.
How about that for an exciting story?
------ Me 45, W 50 M1 - 1994 D1 - 2000 T-8 M-2.5 No children M2 (current w)- 2003 T-14 M-14 BD1 - Jan 2016 Sept 7 2016, Piecing BD2 - Nov 2016, IWAD Jan 2017, Piecing D-12, D-10,D-10,D-10,D-9,S-8
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
That is quite a story. I can understand why you'd be depressed. I think the first task for you is to regain your confidence and improve your outlook on life. I know that seems impossible right now. But, if you can remember back when you were a kid when you'd wake up on a Saturday morning and you'd be excited for all of the possible adventures that can happen that day. You need to regain that sense of adventure. You've been given a lot of lemons; it's time to start making lemonade. You're on a hero's journey to save yourself, your children and your marriage. You can fall apart or you can decide to dig deeper into yourself and find the strength you never thought you had and go out and fight the good fight. You can quit or you can make it an adventure; it's up to you to decide which direction you want to go.
There are moments in this life when you are so confident in the rightness of your actions, that not even for a second do you consider the option that you might be wrong.
Thanks doodler It is a journey, gets more bizarre by the day. I so wish I could develop that attitude of hope and excitement. It feels so far away.
My wife told the kids on Friday she wants to buy them a puppy. So now we are dog hunting. We are separated and going to now bring a puppy into our lives. Go figure. (Hey maybe a dog will save our marriage. At least I'll have someone to share the doghouse im in with.)
Saw my therapist today, told him I was thinking about throwing the towel in. He felt like I was throwing out the baby with the bathwater. I'm honestly not sure. I don't know what quitting means I don't know what fighting means.
Excercised today. Saw a movie. Went to a jazz club w a friend. Just trying to be spiritual and take it slowly. Have anxiety about weekend alone. Supposed to take my wife to a basketball game on a date tomorrow night. Don't really have a desire to be with her. Almost want to tell her I want to cancel the date. Wish there were instruction books here...
------ Me 45, W 50 M1 - 1994 D1 - 2000 T-8 M-2.5 No children M2 (current w)- 2003 T-14 M-14 BD1 - Jan 2016 Sept 7 2016, Piecing BD2 - Nov 2016, IWAD Jan 2017, Piecing D-12, D-10,D-10,D-10,D-9,S-8
My wife told the kids on Friday she wants to buy them a puppy. So now we are dog hunting. We are separated and going to now bring a puppy into our lives. Go figure. (Hey maybe a dog will save our marriage. At least I'll have someone to share the doghouse im in with.)
Crw613,
My wife (now ex-wife) did something similar. We went to the animal shelter and she found a dog she wanted. We discussed getting the dog. (I was temp-checking as well, but I didn't really realize it at the time. You know, if I get a dog will she stay?) I told her that given the circumstances we probably shouldn't get the dog. We had a dog and a ferret already, so I didn't want to grow the family if we were going to separate. Ultimately, the dog and the ferret stayed with me and that's a good thing.
I don't know why they do those sorts of things, but it seems almost as if it's one last "tease" to see if they can get you to do want they want you to do. I don't know.
(Hey maybe a dog will save our marriage. At least I'll have someone to share the doghouse im in with.)
Sorry you're here Cr, but I think if you can remember to throw these little bits of humor into your situation (although I'm not at all suggesting it's funny) it might help pull you up out of your funk a little. Sometimes our situations are so ridiculous that the only other reaction besides crying is laughing. Keep posting!
M46 W48 M11 T14 S11 D8 BD: 2016/05/27 In-home separation: 2016/11/23 Nesting: 2017/06/11 W moves out: 2018/01/07 W goes public with OM: 2018/07/12 I ask for a divorce: 2018/12/14
I feel your pain. I have 5 kids. I've heard many of the same things from my W. My W's friends sound like your W's therapist: toxic. I am in NYC. Good: your W is still complaining, you are going on dates, you are speaking to one another, you are still married, your kids. Bad: your W is very committed to her D plan and you are ready to throw in the towel. Ugly: you are an emotional wreck and you need to get your own house in order in order to move forward whether or not you save your M. It's hurting your parenting. It's making you even less attractive to your W. You have a therapist and a psychiatrist. Are they not helping? Maybe dwelling on your past and your future are too much for you right now. Suicidal thoughts? We have all had them. How serious are these? Put a suicide helpline in your contacts and call them when those thoughts arise. Can you live in the moment? Past is ugly. Future is uncertain. The present is all we have.
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
M46 W48 M11 T14 S11 D8 BD: 2016/05/27 In-home separation: 2016/11/23 Nesting: 2017/06/11 W moves out: 2018/01/07 W goes public with OM: 2018/07/12 I ask for a divorce: 2018/12/14
W: "What is the plan for tonight are we going out?" M:"Yes, I still have the basketball tickets tonight, but you had said you are uncomfortable sitting so close to courts because of cheerleaders (she is triggered this) and you did not want to be on tv." W: "Yes, I don't want to go with you." M: "Ok, so maybe we will go to dinner earlier and I'll take one of the kids to the game." W:"Well, maybe you want to be at home with the kids tonight since you are going to Miami for three days and I'll take the tickets and go with a friend." M: "WHAT - YOU JUST SAID YOU DONT WANT TO BE SEEN SITTING BY THE COURT BECAUSE YOU DONT WANT TO BE ON TV. YOU DONT WANT TO GO WITH ME? WHATS GOING ON?"
you can imagine it escalates. Then we go see our "child psychologist" today, we've been working with her for about 6 months to talk about the challenges are kids are having.
First topic: The dog. Wife innocently suggests she was impulsive maybe the puppy not such a good idea, but he "is just soooooo cute." Therapist mentions that bringing a puppy into the family is like bringing in a new child, maybe the kids will have hope the marriage is going to work. Wife gets quiet and sad. Says she is on the fence.
So - I reach out to our marriage counselor today - she says to me: Your wife is suffering from major trauma in her past. She was so neglected by her parents that she is seeing things through horrible lenses - and I'm really sorry, you have to see her as a sad and hurt 7 year old girl - be compassionate, detach, just be kind and gentle and give her room. You may have no play here. I asked her if I should tell my wife, its either me, or her individual therapist, but Im not sticking around with her individual therapist in the picture. She says of course it would be amazing if Tammy stopped seeing her therapist, but 60/40 she picks the therapist over you.
This is so tragic. All I can do is pray for patience and guidance and help from people in my path...
------ Me 45, W 50 M1 - 1994 D1 - 2000 T-8 M-2.5 No children M2 (current w)- 2003 T-14 M-14 BD1 - Jan 2016 Sept 7 2016, Piecing BD2 - Nov 2016, IWAD Jan 2017, Piecing D-12, D-10,D-10,D-10,D-9,S-8
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka that I totally agree with.
Originally Posted By: Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
I am so sorry to see you here and in so much pain. If I may, you would really benefit if you would move you thread over to the MLC forum as I strongly suspect your W is going through MLC. Hey, I speak from experience as former reformed badass MLCer.
You will get tons of support from the very loving souls over in the MLC forum along with zany MLC humor! You'll be in VERY GOOD hands with those folks.
To be upfront here...you are in for a LONG and bumpy ride. Living with a MLCer isn't fun at all. This is one of those seemingly long marathons. It's no mere 50-yard dash nor any magic bullets.
And I have this awful feeling that the so-called friend is W's OM.
Go on and stake your tiki-hut over in the MLC forum. The best outfitted tiki-hut is HaWho's!! Why she's got a basement that was just converted to a stinky dorm room! HAAA.
So - I reach out to our marriage counselor today - she says to me: Your wife is suffering from major trauma in her past. She was so neglected by her parents that she is seeing things through horrible lenses - and I'm really sorry, you have to see her as a sad and hurt 7 year old girl - be compassionate, detach, just be kind and gentle and give her room. You may have no play here. I asked her if I should tell my wife, its either me, or her individual therapist, but Im not sticking around with her individual therapist in the picture. She says of course it would be amazing if Tammy stopped seeing her therapist, but 60/40 she picks the therapist over you.
This is so tragic. All I can do is pray for patience and guidance and help from people in my path...
Agree you should read the MLC homework and meet the folks over there (I moved from newcomers to MLC too). At least you have a good marriage counselor...
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
hi Wonka - Which "so called friend" as the OM? So...at some point do things ever turn around for a MLCer? I mean, I'm human...Im headed away for the weekend. Got a room on the beach, going to just relax and reconnect to some old friends. I have to admit I'm kind of concerned of what would happen if I were to bump into a OW myself in this state of mind...I mean whats the best way to "disconnect" from a MLCer? This is such a crazy ride. Going to head over to MLC...not sure exactly how to do it but ill work on it.
------ Me 45, W 50 M1 - 1994 D1 - 2000 T-8 M-2.5 No children M2 (current w)- 2003 T-14 M-14 BD1 - Jan 2016 Sept 7 2016, Piecing BD2 - Nov 2016, IWAD Jan 2017, Piecing D-12, D-10,D-10,D-10,D-9,S-8
Wife is about to do BD#3, and I think ask for D. We have been separated 6 weeks, I separated at her request, we started nesting for our 6 kids, crazy arrangement: we switch off with the kids EVERY NIGHT and move downstairs to a small one bedroom in our apt building alternate nights and then switch off on weekends...i agreed to this with the understanding we were going to try to work on the marriage...
now, wife is about to shoot MC#3 since she feels she is not "being heard" in the room during counseling, feels she is not getting anywhere with counseling, and flew out of the country for 3 days leaving me with the 6 kids.
So here is my 180 - I am ok with her proceeding with asking for divorce and starting the process - but I DO NOT WANT TO DO IT WHILE AGREEING TO THIS RIDICULOUS SEPARATION ARRANGEMENT!
In fact, I am planning on very politely telling her that I am moving back in, and not only that, I am going to move back into the master bedroom, because I have not felt comfortable being thrown out of the bedroom and asked to sleep in the guest bedroom for the last 8 months etc. In fact, I did not cheat on her or do anything. She just feels like she is not in love with me any longer. So - the boundary for me would be this message to her "look, you know i want to make things work, but i also need to take care of myself now, and I have not been able to sleep for almost 8 months, with the separation its been even worse. The reason is I have felt humiliated being in the guest bedroom, so Im going to move into the master, and you should take care of yourself any way you need.
if she needs to leave our bedroom, that is what she should do. I expect she will be very pissed, and maybe go hostile, but SHE IS THE ONE ASKING FOR DIVORCE, and I want to make it clear that I have consistently indicated a faithful willingness to work on the marriage - and in fact bent over backwards to give her the space she needed and demanded over these many months.
We have been to three marriage counselors, they have all agreed my wife is the "indicated patient" not me...in fact, they have all seemed to focus on getting my wife to look in the mirror during therapy, and stop playing the victim and spoiled entitled spouse - but she is completely blocked from being able to do this work.
The point is - im fed up now - in fact, i really feel like I've been a pushover in many ways i was scared of her, didn't want to rock to boat and assert myself, was just wallowing in my own guilt and shame because of how she was treating me. this may have really been the wrong tact - i did not show backbone and stand my ground, forcing her to live with the consequences of her request for separation (i.e. - go ahead and move out if you are not happy)
I have spoken this over with our child psychologist, who liked that i was asserting myself, and said "sure it may impact the kids, but you have to take care of yourself."
I spoke to two spiritual mentors who both thought is was a fine approach, as long as I was very gentle with conveying the message to her I was moving back into the bedroom, and not being vindictive.
Really curious to hear input on this bold move...its pretty much the bottom of the 9th in our marriage so Im not sure I have anything to lose by standing up for myself (and making it clear I'm here to save my marriage and my children who are suffering terribly from her decisions).
but, naturally, and as usual, i am fearful and worried i will upset her and she will just reject me even more or whatever...
Feedback??? _________________________ ------ Me 45, W 50 M1 - 1994 D1 - 2000 T-8 M-2.5 No children M2 (current w)- 2003 T-14 M-14 BD1 - Jan 2016 Sept 7 2016, Piecing BD2 - Nov 2016, IWAD Jan 2017, Piecing D-12, D-10,D-10,D-10,D-9,S-8
------ Me 45, W 50 M1 - 1994 D1 - 2000 T-8 M-2.5 No children M2 (current w)- 2003 T-14 M-14 BD1 - Jan 2016 Sept 7 2016, Piecing BD2 - Nov 2016, IWAD Jan 2017, Piecing D-12, D-10,D-10,D-10,D-9,S-8
Wow LALost....I read up on your sitch. You have been dealing will a very difficult situation.
I do like your approach to moving back into the master bedroom. It is important for you to take care of yourself, especially for your children.
Me:45 ExW:48 M:04/97 3 Bombs & 2 ReCons 1st BD 11/10 D Finalized 4/20 D-16 S-14 Going in one more round when you don't think you can. That's what makes all the difference in life.~Rocky Balboa
The thing is, you need to take care of your road and make it inviting to her, but don't push her to travel on it because she won't. She is on her own road now. You take care of you. For YOU and your children.
There are moments in this life when you are so confident in the rightness of your actions, that not even for a second do you consider the option that you might be wrong.
Yesterday I hinted that the arrangement is not working for me or the kids now with this nesting arrangement every other day. She agreed and asked me what I am thinking. I didn't want to tell her my plans but she kept pushing. Finally I asked her what she thought my plan was, and she says you want to move back in. I didn't answer, just said I don't know I need to think about what works best for the kids. ,my divorce coach says focus on making it about the kids not me. The six little ones are suffering. And their mom has done whacky things like buy them all iPads and now we are getting a puppy in the midst of thiis madness.
------ Me 45, W 50 M1 - 1994 D1 - 2000 T-8 M-2.5 No children M2 (current w)- 2003 T-14 M-14 BD1 - Jan 2016 Sept 7 2016, Piecing BD2 - Nov 2016, IWAD Jan 2017, Piecing D-12, D-10,D-10,D-10,D-9,S-8
Oh, and it's my off weekend so I'm headed to a spa for the weekend. Trying to get a couple business opportunities lined up. Feels good to be out.
One thing that has come up is flirting. I have not flirted in like 15 years...now I'm noticing women (noticing me) and starting to consider y options.
I feel like I a,m abandoning my children every time my mind starts going to a place of "you know what I'll just get divorced and remarry a much younger woman and start a new family". The thoughts have started coming lately for the first time in 1.5 years of hell with my wife. I guess they are natural, but they are both scary and exciting.
------ Me 45, W 50 M1 - 1994 D1 - 2000 T-8 M-2.5 No children M2 (current w)- 2003 T-14 M-14 BD1 - Jan 2016 Sept 7 2016, Piecing BD2 - Nov 2016, IWAD Jan 2017, Piecing D-12, D-10,D-10,D-10,D-9,S-8
Also wife says she doesn't want to go to Mc any longer. Says the same therapist doesn't understand her (this is our third Mc. She basically fired the other two for similar reasons). I said let's find another one. She says well Mc is not our issue. I guess I'll just leave it alone for now.
------ Me 45, W 50 M1 - 1994 D1 - 2000 T-8 M-2.5 No children M2 (current w)- 2003 T-14 M-14 BD1 - Jan 2016 Sept 7 2016, Piecing BD2 - Nov 2016, IWAD Jan 2017, Piecing D-12, D-10,D-10,D-10,D-9,S-8
Also wife says she doesn't want to go to Mc any longer. Says the same therapist doesn't understand her (this is our third Mc. She basically fired the other two for similar reasons). I said let's find another one. She says well Mc is not our issue. I guess I'll just leave it alone for now.
Yep. No need to push the issue. Mine did the same thing when our MC (we had two) didn't back her reasoning. It is what it is.
There are moments in this life when you are so confident in the rightness of your actions, that not even for a second do you consider the option that you might be wrong.
So here's one small gal activity. I've taken an interest in electronic dance music. Yes. Not a joke. Friends took me out in miami to one of these wild venues and we danced for hours. Felt really liberating. Flirting felt pretty good too but I know it's a very slippery slope.
------ Me 45, W 50 M1 - 1994 D1 - 2000 T-8 M-2.5 No children M2 (current w)- 2003 T-14 M-14 BD1 - Jan 2016 Sept 7 2016, Piecing BD2 - Nov 2016, IWAD Jan 2017, Piecing D-12, D-10,D-10,D-10,D-9,S-8
