Help - Setting Boundaries, WW in EA - Thread #4

[LITB]

Dealing with my W back then was like dealing with a petulant child. When she didn't get her way, it would get ugly. I had to learn how to effectively respond to her without adding fuel to the fire.

LITB

In these situations, what did you find worked for you?

Hey Woke,

I brought your question to me over from Wsh's thread.

I found that boundaries and not arguing worked. She brought this up the other day while we were talking to a friend. She said that she wondered to herself when we were separated why I stopped arguing with her. When I did argue previously, it would just justify her choices and fuel her crazy train.

My boundary was that I wouldn't converse with her if/when she was emotionally charged. Or respond from a calm place. It took practice. It took me journaling interactions to learn from, because I found when I wrote things down, I would remember more clearly.

[sandi2]

She also kept saying that she was happy how she was and would never change, would say what she liked, how she liked. People can't change, and me wanting her to change meant I didn't like her. I'm paraphrasing here. I didn't actually ask her to change, it was more about how she dealt with me and me with her. So that was that.

Do you see the wayward thinking in this woman?! She is saying she does not respect you, and she doesn't value your feelings.

Last night's argument had some perfect opportunities for validation, but I just reacted and threatened to start treating her how she was treating me, see how she liked it.

I don't want to sound as if I am putting down validation. I want you to understand that everyone needs validation. However, when you are being insulted by your WW (especially in front of D5), and your WW is telling you things like the first quote above......you need to enforce a firm boundary. She does not respect you for walking away when she is hammering you and insulting you. She is actually challenging you to stand up to her. Why do you think she treats you so terribly? B/c you have allowed it, that's why. This is how she pushes your buttons to see how far she can go and how much cr@p she can throw at you before you do something about it.

Just telling her that you won't be disrespected, will not stop her insults. She needs to see action from you.

Men with the NGS always seem to choose walking away whenever they are being bullied by the female adults closest to them. It does not solve the problem b/c the bully is always waiting to have a go at you the next chance they get.

Perhaps you have been told to walk away to prevent the argument from escalating. In some cases, that is advisable. I'm just telling you that your WW will not change from this horrible, b'tch-crazed woman, unless she learns to show you respect. Boundaries are not enforced through arguments.

Having a "time-out" may work to cool down a heated argument, but it does nothing to stop bullying. Do not try to state a boundary while in an argument. Do not argue with her about a boundary. Just show action when it is not honored.

Anyway, do what you must to protect your feelings, and to be an example to your children in how to deal with these types of situations in a relationship. I know you are trying to keep your family together. The children need to see strong leadership from their dad, and you can do it.

[Woke_Up]

Dealing with my W back then was like dealing with a petulant child. When she didn't get her way, it would get ugly. I had to learn how to effectively respond to her without adding fuel to the fire.

LITB

In these situations, what did you find worked for you?

Hey Woke,

I brought your question to me over from Wsh's thread.

Thanks, appreciated.

I found that boundaries and not arguing worked. She brought this up the other day while we were talking to a friend. She said that she wondered to herself when we were separated why I stopped arguing with her. When I did argue previously, it would just justify her choices and fuel her crazy train.

OK, I get that. Something I find difficult, due to the nature of the arguments where I am usually subjected to personal attacks.

My boundary was that I wouldn't converse with her if/when she was emotionally charged. Or respond from a calm place. It took practice. It took me journaling interactions to learn from, because I found when I wrote things down, I would remember more clearly.

So, if she was emotionally charged, or ranting, did you sit there and listen, but say nothing? How did you respond calmly - to the points she was making, or by telling her you wouldn't converse when she was like that?

[Woke_Up]

She also kept saying that she was happy how she was and would never change, would say what she liked, how she liked. People can't change, and me wanting her to change meant I didn't like her. I'm paraphrasing here. I didn't actually ask her to change, it was more about how she dealt with me and me with her. So that was that.

Do you see the wayward thinking in this woman?! She is saying she does not respect you, and she doesn't value your feelings.

Oh, I do indeed. She does not, and I don't believe she ever has, at least not in the way that partners should respect each other.

Last night's argument had some perfect opportunities for validation, but I just reacted and threatened to start treating her how she was treating me, see how she liked it.

I don't want to sound as if I am putting down validation. I want you to understand that everyone needs validation. However, when you are being insulted by your WW (especially in front of D5), and your WW is telling you things like the first quote above......you need to enforce a firm boundary. She does not respect you for walking away when she is hammering you and insulting you. She is actually challenging you to stand up to her. Why do you think she treats you so terribly? B/c you have allowed it, that's why. This is how she pushes your buttons to see how far she can go and how much cr@p she can throw at you before you do something about it.

Just telling her that you won't be disrespected, will not stop her insults. She needs to see action from you.

I know, and I feel like it's Groundhog Day, back where I came in. I really don't know what action if it's not telling her that I will converse calmly later and not be insulted, and then leaving.

Men with the NGS always seem to choose walking away whenever they are being bullied by the female adults closest to them. It does not solve the problem b/c the bully is always waiting to have a go at you the next chance they get.

Perhaps you have been told to walk away to prevent the argument from escalating. In some cases, that is advisable. I'm just telling you that your WW will not change from this horrible, b'tch-crazed woman, unless she learns to show you respect. Boundaries are not enforced through arguments.

Having a "time-out" may work to cool down a heated argument, but it does nothing to stop bullying.

A time out wouldn't work in my case, as W would never respect it.

Do not try to state a boundary while in an argument. Do not argue with her about a boundary. Just show action when it is not honored.

Such as? I know I'm being pedantic, but if it's not telling her I won't take part in an insulting argument and will talk calmly later, then leaving, what is it? Or is it the stating of the boundary? I should state that when things are calm, then enforce later?

Anyway, do what you must to protect your feelings, and to be an example to your children in how to deal with these types of situations in a relationship. I know you are trying to keep your family together. The children need to see strong leadership from their dad, and you can do it.

Well, I'm not doing a good job of it.

Yesterday W messaged me that she hadn't slept. So I thought I'd do something different, not go training (my once a week GAL), go home and help out, get D to bed etc.

Got home, but found she already had D in bed, and when I said she could have an early night she just turned it around saying she didn't need my permission. Then later she ranted and raved about stuff, basically saying I had been deliberate and vindictive by messaging OM, by making her block him on email (last September) and I had no right to interfere in her life... I had put nails in coffins. She also asked if I had done anything to her email, as she couldn't send messages. Nothing to do with me, but she just needed to re-enter her password.

Anyway, that got me thinking today - a) how she was completely out of order, blaming me for my actions and taking no responsibility for her...

b) the email. So I broke my rule and snooped. She got back in touch with OM last night.

So... I messaged her and told her I want the house on the market next month. I didn't say I'd snooped, just said I'd looked back at the hell she'd put me through for months and then had the gall to blame me for. I'm such a react-o-holic. But I am sick of this. We're living an in house separation, she is saying we are not together any more, I get regular verbal abuse, and I don't see any way out.

I also message OM, and swore at him and told him I wasn't finished with him yet. Childish I know.

Anyway, we exchanged a few messages, and while she has guessed I have snooped I haven't told her I have. (she asked if she was being micro monitored).

How long do I put up with this toxic situation that living in the same house seems to bring? I get no time to myself, no time to centre and refocus, or do anything except work around the place at weekends and then do my father duties on weeknights.

I know, basic mistakes I've made and I should know better after 4 or 5 months of DB. Today I just feel like I can't go on like this.

[Dawgs]

Definitely not a mistake, brotherman.

[LITB]

So, if she was emotionally charged, or ranting, did you sit there and listen, but say nothing? How did you respond calmly - to the points she was making, or by telling her you wouldn't converse when she was like that?

Like I said, it took practice. Communicate the boundary and then follow through.

When my W was emotionally charged, I'd say something like this, "I respect myself too much to be treated this way. This conversation is over until we can talk in a civil manner." Then I'd walk away or hangup and turn my phone off.

[Vanilla]

Detach please.

Those are my thoughts, become an observer.

V

[Woke_Up]

So, if she was emotionally charged, or ranting, did you sit there and listen, but say nothing? How did you respond calmly - to the points she was making, or by telling her you wouldn't converse when she was like that?

Like I said, it took practice. Communicate the boundary and then follow through.

When my W was emotionally charged, I'd say something like this, "I respect myself too much to be treated this way. This conversation is over until we can talk in a civil manner." Then I'd walk away or hangup and turn my phone off.

Right, gotcha. That's along the lines of what I've been trying to put in place, although with limited success so far. I don't even mind if it is a heated debate, but if it's just going to be personal insults or character assassination then I'm not taking that.

I just need to persevere, as she tends to follow me about when I have tried that.

Thanks you

[Woke_Up]

Detach please.

Those are my thoughts, become an observer.

V

Yes, I see I need to focus on that. I always want off the crazy train. Or at least to be sitting up front with my hand on the brake.

So, the weekend was fine. We didn't discuss anything on Friday. Ought or all day Saturday, although things were a bit strained when I had to do a photo shoot with all of her family. I spent a lot of Saturday pissed off, same for Sunday in places, but more sad on Sunday. However, I still want to continue with selling the house. Unfortunately there is no affordable solution where one party retains the current house, we went too high on the mortgage for that.

I initiated a discussion about it last night, after D & S had gone to bed, about getting the house on the market and telling the kids.

Among other things, W reiterated that she did not like having things outside of her control (I.e my interference) and that she had to do things herself. Also that she would cut off her nose to spite her face. I validated about the control, and said I thought she probably already had cut her nose off now. After Thursday night, I just wanted to move on. She said Thursday was not normal and she was suffering withdrawals from her anxiety medication. I told her it was more likely withdrawals from her EA, however I suspected that she was now back in touch based on her ranting about her email not sending, and the fact that our Skype connections on the DNS monitor have gone back up. I didn't admit to any snooping. I also said as she wasn't denying it, I was right, and that the irony was that had she given it another couple of weeks, or months at the max, it would have got better, and now she would be making it 10x worse if it wasn't something she really wanted. She replied that she would just have to be a bitch, if she wanted to end it.

She did say she didn't want to split up - I pointed out that on Thursday she had said we were not together. She said 'we're not'. She repeated she didn't want to split up, but she thought it would be easier. She also said that she had spoken to her mother, and she could start staying there at weekends to try and get D used to the idea.

So, we progress.

While I am not done, I am done enough that I will not continue as we have been. An in house separation is the worst of all worlds. I will focus on the needs of my children and the needs of. Self to improve and become a better, healthier person. This is not a ploy by me to get her to change and see sense. Ok, I did react, but it was a reaction driven by what I have been thinking for a while.

On Thursday evening I had to watch
my beautiful, precious D5 covering her ears because mummy was raging at daddy again. This stops. I will give her comfort and stability, and if that is on my own, so be it.

[sandi2]

An in house separation is the worst of all worlds.

How about an update?