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Originally Posted By: Jeep74
You're in. Welcome to the ragtag band of misfits. No DB talk allowed. haha


Yes, Drill Sergeant!


--
Me: 47 WW: 35
SS: 17 D: 5
T: 7 yrs Engaged: 2 yrs
OEA confirmed: August 17 2016 ongoing since April 2016.
OEA continues (with occasional breaks)
BD2 - W says will visit OM in Jan 18
Joined: Dec 2016
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Originally Posted By: Vanilla

I have a really big philosophical and practical problem with some of this thinking woke up.


So, in your view, is the apology letter a bad thing? Or do you mean that it is OK for me to acknowledge and own the things that I have done wrong in the past, but have no expectations about it and not to assume that I made her feel the way she felt?

Originally Posted By: Vanilla
Sit by V and know this frees you to concentrate on you. It's a big job all on its own.


It certainly is. I've been blowing in the wind the last week or so, still haven't got my IC set up. Timing is everything with my work schedule.


--
Me: 47 WW: 35
SS: 17 D: 5
T: 7 yrs Engaged: 2 yrs
OEA confirmed: August 17 2016 ongoing since April 2016.
OEA continues (with occasional breaks)
BD2 - W says will visit OM in Jan 18
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 8,855
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Originally Posted By: Vanilla
I have a really big philosophical and practical problem with some of this thinking woke up.


--------------------

So, in your view, is the apology letter a bad thing?

--------------------

Timing is everything on this. Your W may not want an apology in writing. You do this by you taking control of you. In some circumstances an apology can be seen as more control. If I apologise, then W will be obligated to do x or y. It's more attempts at control.



Or do you mean that it is OK for me to acknowledge and own the things that I have done wrong in the past,

As long as you have done so and are taking action to change. The most important person you do this for is yourself for your future.

but have no expectations about it and not to assume that I made her feel the way she felt?

Can I repeat you don't have the power to make W feel anything. This is a fundamental belief, not an assumption.

This belief of control requires addressing otherwise woke up any changes you make are only changes.

Changes change back. W knows this.

Letting go of control of W requires permanent shift and it's a big shift. Once you know then you will never unknow. W owns her own feelings, they are hers as of right.


Originally Posted By: Vanilla
Sit by V and know this frees you to concentrate on you. It's a big job all on its own.


It certainly is. I've been blowing in the wind the last week or so, still haven't got my IC set up. Timing is everything with my work schedule.

Enough said

V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


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I'll ponder on this and be back. I have some journalling to do, but I've left it a bit late for now.

There's been some positives from a DB coaching viewpoint, not sure there's any from a making any progress with this sitch.


--
Me: 47 WW: 35
SS: 17 D: 5
T: 7 yrs Engaged: 2 yrs
OEA confirmed: August 17 2016 ongoing since April 2016.
OEA continues (with occasional breaks)
BD2 - W says will visit OM in Jan 18
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 291
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OK, so what's happened over the last week or so? Obviously I had my moment the weekend before. Then we got a bit closer during last week. ML on Wednesday. W locked herself out of the house on Friday so had to get a locksmith out smile

Saturday was OK, I did things with D and around the garden, W did her thing. Sunday, was a good day from making an emotional connection view -

Started off with me jumping into bed with her early for a cuddle. When she asked what she should talk about, I said how about ditching the EAP.. talked a bit. I came back in the bedroom later and she had her phone out and looked pained and then said she wasn't sure she could do it.

Anyway, had a nice day doing things together, and was all OK until night time - we were lying on her bed, and she asked me to talk to her about Christianity - but I knew this was just because she wanted to argue with OM about it, as he is a fundamentalist. I know this from previous discussions with W and from previous snooping, and also from snooping over the weekend. So I said I didn't just want to give her fuel for her conversations with the EAP. She said it wasn't just that, but that put a dampner on what had been a positive day.

Monday - complete about turn. Come home, she is talking about getting a job, ten turns out she is thinking about renting a place near D5's school, complete about face.

I look at her phone and find out she has been talking to OM about me, so I pick her up on it. I didn't rage or get angry, but I did ask what she had been saying about me. I saw that she had been telling him some stuff, about how I had been looking at he phone - now bear in mind I told her what I knew was from when I had looked at he phone a long time ago. The tone and the context looked as if she had been bad mouthing me again.

I asked her why the sudden change from Sunday. She didn't really know. I asked her what she was scared of. She said hurting people. Hurting everyone. I looked at her, can't remember if I said that people are already getting hurt, I think I did.

I guess this is the whole pursuit and distance thing. Get close, pull away.

Tuesday was much the same. Not much conversation, she just did her own thing once I was back. I did try to ask how she was, or if she wanted space, but she said she just wanted to sleep.

Today we exchanged a few text messages, then she tells me she has a job interview on Friday. I act positive, say that's good news, maybe help her from feeling lonely having something going on outside of the house.

She then tells me I must be joking, that it will be hell - so I ask her why do it? W says it is for money. I asked her if it was to be able to leave, but she said it was just to shut everybody up.

After a bit of backwards and forwards messages(I asked her why she would get a job that was hell, to wait and find something she enjoys - but she said it had to be something that worked around the kids, and care (nursing) home work would allow that) - I asked her what she wanted. She said to be left alone.

Anyway, I asked what had happened, and she said nothing, just fed up and she just didn't know her a$$ from her elbow any more.

So - back to distancing I think.

I still haven't done the apology letter, things were too up and down. I still haven't scheduled my next coaching session. I want to get myself back on an even keel.

Still too focused on her (and OM - I actually messaged him again on Monday night, but haven't said anything to W about it and W hasn't said anything to me).

Anyway, just venting. W has the copy of 5LL to read, and says she will read it (once she finishes her book on psychopaths)...

I've been reading Gottman, as recommended by the DB coach. Some interesting stuff in there and good strategies, but much of it relies on 2 parties willing to work together. I hate to think about the scores - in all sections, we'd be in the 'need to work on this area'.


--
Me: 47 WW: 35
SS: 17 D: 5
T: 7 yrs Engaged: 2 yrs
OEA confirmed: August 17 2016 ongoing since April 2016.
OEA continues (with occasional breaks)
BD2 - W says will visit OM in Jan 18
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 2,937
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Quote:
I still haven't done the apology letter,


Why write her one, especially when the OM is in the picture? It seems like that would be counterproductive and give them a good laugh??


There are moments in this life when you are so confident in the rightness of your actions, that not even for a second do you consider the option that you might be wrong.
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On the apology letter, I find this helpful internally. Write it up like you plan on giving it to her, but do not. It's a healthy exercise to identify what you think you have done wrong in the past in your R. Work on those things without her knowledge. Better yourself.


Me 42, Wife 39; Married 16; Together 17; Kids: D13, S10
Wife asks for Divorce: 03/19/13
Reconcile: 07/07/13
Round 2 Starts: 02/19/17
Apartment Life: 04/21/17
PA Confirmed: 05/23/17
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Originally Posted By: Tryin2figuritout
On the apology letter, I find this helpful internally. Write it up like you plan on giving it to her, but do not. It's a healthy exercise to identify what you think you have done wrong in the past in your R. Work on those things without her knowledge. Better yourself.


I'm well aware of that.


There are moments in this life when you are so confident in the rightness of your actions, that not even for a second do you consider the option that you might be wrong.
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An apology letter may change over time as you shift.

It is worth writing out and doing variations as you go.

I wrote a letter to the Giggalo.

See if I can find it for you and the link.

I rewrite it from time to time

V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


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The final version to the Giggalo

From begging and concern

To this

final letter to the Giggalo

V


Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
V 64, WAW


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