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#2734005 03/13/17 08:01 PM
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M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
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Originally Posted By: JujuB

What really stands out in your situation to I imagine every one of us posting here, is that your ex was capable of walking away from her children.

That is an act that is just so unnatural and uncommon. I think that every single mom here would agree that It goes against every instinctual fiber in a mother's being. And my heart goes out to you and your daughters.


Hi J,
nice of you to come visit my sitch. I appreciate all the input I can get. These are difficult times. Yes, it is odd, unnatural, uncommon,against even my XW fiber of existence before BD. Her life was her kids and family. She chose to work close to home to be available for any issues at daycare and school. She loved being there for them . They were all so close. It's a very scary change of character. I sometimes think she is avoiding them because she is protecting them from herself. They don't need to see her this way.

Originally Posted By: JujuB

But just as we wouldn't expect someone that had a physical handicap to be able run a marathon we might have to come to terms that some one that has some sort of mental handicap might not be capable of being a reliable parent figure. And that can be a very hard thing to come to terms with, but also freeing. Because then we are accepting the person for what they can give instead of what they should. It allows us to give up resentment and anger which is just so so harmful.


Illnesses of MLC or whatever is controlling her choices. I have come to terms with it in a small way. Growing by the month to total acceptance that this is who she is now. Crisis or not. The girls however. Teens are not so understanding. They have not developed any kind of empathy towards her. They talk about her as if she was a friend at school who they don't care to associate with anymore. Her choice of OM isn't helping . The guy is a poster boy for crack head loser. They found out about him before I did. The girls have to get over so much.


Originally Posted By: JujuB

Again. I am so sorry for your daughters. Every child deserves the emotional support of both of their parents. And their is a lot to process. I hope your daughters have only the best resources. It seems like they have the best of the best fathers.

Hugs

J.


thank you so much J. They have amazing teachers at the school. Who are aware of the situation and Who have also witnessed XW in her most manic of days. They have asked their mom to stay away from the school. my parents are amazing as are my brothers. The mothers of their friends have also been so supportive. Lots of love. I am so lucky to have them so grounded and not acting out. My youngest has anxiety and I am doing everything to help her through that. As for the best of the best... well all I can do is my best. I owe it o them. They didn't ask for any of this .

Originally Posted By: bttrfly

I understand the pain and confusion of D16s question. I'm sorry the girls are holding her at bay, but I completely understand why. What I'm really sorry for is that the girls feel they have to protect themselves against their mother. I wish with all my heart that this situation can be resolved in a way that heals the damage done.


hi bttrfly xox

All I want now is for her to reconnect with the girls. I just don't want to hold her hand to get it done. I've tried talking to the girls together and one on one. They both want nothing to do with her new life and the OM. They have been told by their mom that she didn't want to be a mom anymore. Needed to find herself and ended up fining OM a week later. Only to abandoned them again. XW really has to come through in a big was and put the girls first. get an apartment and focus on their pain and not hers for once. XW is clearly not there. I still believe she can do it.



Originally Posted By: roist

I suffered from depression before. It can cripple someone's ability to DO what needs to be done, even to do what you want to do. It probably took your W a lot of effort to send that E-mail. It is easy to think she thought that those few lines would fix things and that is delusional of her. Maybe she didn't put in an effort, but I think it is also probable that she just did the best she could.

Before you are in contact with your W, I ask you to take a little time to consider your approach. Don't just acknowledge that the girls got her email and don't want to reply. Say something along the lines "that it wasn't enough for them to get passed their hurt" and/or "they don't understand the discrepancy between her words and what she did. " a simple statement that they choose not to reply will be a slap in the face for W. Maybe she deserves that, but being rejected may have the opposite effect on W. Instead of hitting her with that and sending her away to lick her wounds, a slightly more empathetic reply could help her continue to search for how to reconnect better.


Hi roist. Great advice and I did follow it. I needed to try something new anyway since the way me and XW were talking was just the same old same old. Turning in circles.
see below today's texts.


Originally Posted By: roist

Similarly with your D's, you could take a step too. This is obviously confusing for them, not forgetting their sense of lose and abandonment. Discuss their feelings with them. Don't explain her actions to them, but you could say she is trying to connect the best she is capable of right now. I am short on time but I wanted to just say, maybe you could take the sting out of their initial reaction so they can see passed the obvious.

I am not telling you to actively work towards their reconciliation but how you communicate to each party, can have an important affect.


I have spoken to them . To open up and understand the situation. That it will not be easy. In the long run things will get better.
D16 wants nothing to do with her. XW burnt her twice. The girls were abandoned a month before BD1. XW went into non mother mode. I asked her many times to talk to the girls after she came back from BD1. she refused. Said it was up to the girls to come to her. Then BD2 happened D16 ( 14 at the time) said "i knew i couldn't trust her. She is not my mother. I see it in her eyes."
So until XW makes a true effort and not this half attempt, the girls will avoid. they are Irish after all. Strong characters. They do understand that their mom is not well. The specialist they saw during my first attempts after BD2 to help them reconnect failed told them. The police who came to the house told them. Gave them both cards to call in case they had problems with their mother. last So If she got help, proof of help, no OM, and was taking care of herself. The girls would see progress and open up.

Originally Posted By: roist

I don't understand why you are going to contact W about her hiding her contact with you from OM. At this stage that has nothing to do with you. It is controlling. I do not see how it can help you or the girls. Why not wait and see later if there is merit to doing so.


No, I didn't ask her if she was hiding our texts and emails from him. None of my concern. It was only a thought. OM means nothing to me. Hasn't for a long time.

Originally Posted By: bttrfly
The hardest thing for me is to realize that my sons relationship with his father is essentially none of my business. It is between them and up to them to tend. I say this because I feel that you Irish get that completely.


Yes I agree. I can walk with her but I won't pick her up, hold her hand and give her the things she needs to say or do . .. that would be not helping at all. She has to do a lot before I enter the picture.


Originally Posted By: peacetoday


a re-connection with the girls may be for everyone's best interest

Even though it is easy for us to understand the girls hurt- your W may not know why they can't get past it.she probably is steeped in denial still



I'd love a re-connection between the 3 of them. That is the problem . She can't remember of doesn't want to remember. So much damage has been done. Even the grandmother has abandoned the girls. It adds to the fear that the girls have. Are they going to be like this later in life. Narcissistic and abandoned their children. I need a real miracle and XW wakes up and does that right thing for them.


UPDATE ------

So it's Monday. I'm at work. not expecting a text since it's been a few days of silence.
then it comes in .

Sorry i didn't message you in a while . Battery was dead on my phone. Didn't have the wire. the girls got my email?

no problem. I've been busy, Girls are good and yes they got your email.


I think it won't change anything if I email, text , write on paper to them ... it all will end the same. they want nothing to do with me because I am with someone else. Anyway , I'm way too busy at work. Later.

I took my time replying. was a little put off by her give up before trying. Ok maybe she doesn't know what to write. Maybe ashamed of what she has said and done. I tried to look at it from a different angle. Didn't she say she'd put them first a week ago. Leave Om. Gain theirs and my trust back. Are we back to avoiding and giving up. Choosing her MLC life over them. Again.? She's lost. so I replied the best I could.

Sorry you feel that way. I hope you don't give up. Your words you choose will be important. You being with him is not the main reasons. I'm sure it'snot easy for you to write these letters. Take your time. If you figure it out, I'm sure the girls will read them. Take care.

That was 10:40am this morning. No reply. hopefully her head has the hamsters running in the right direction. It would be a shame for her to go back into the fog. Mothers day will be the next visit.


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
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you know my friend, she sounds so much like my exh in that exchange.
Quote:

I think it won't change anything if I email, text , write on paper to them ... it all will end the same. they want nothing to do with me because I am with someone else. Anyway , I'm way too busy at work. Later.


Here's where this mode of communication fails everyone. Tone can not be conveyed. I cannot tell you how many times I've heard exh say something similar. It kept him from making any real effort to save our marriage. My DB coach said it's from a place of despair and hopelessness. They don't think anything will or can change and don't know what to do or how to do it, so they focus on the immediate - in her case, work.

I know you were put off but I think it's from a place of real sadness and depression. Think Eeyore. "We'll never make it" any of those depressed characters. I don't think Mother's Day will be the next visit. I wouldn't be surprised if you heard from her tomorrow.

Your response was perfect. So proud of you! xoxoxoxoxo


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
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That this too, was a gift."
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you know - there's this quote on the internet - a meme about Eeyore (my ex is very "Eeyorian" while I'm much more like Tigger)

Look on google for Eeyore meme depression. You'll see it. You are responding in exactly the right way, I think. {{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
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I agree, you are responding in a very good way. Keep up the good work!

BTW, thank you for starting a new thread and linking your threads up.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Irish I don't have any advice, but can only lend support. You are an inspiration to so many of us on here. God bless you and your family.


Me 49 W46
T25 M22
S22 D18 S13
W had EA Apr-Jul 2016
Dropped Bomb 7/9/16
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Originally Posted By: SBJ
Irish I don't have any advice, but can only lend support. You are an inspiration to so many of us on here. God bless you and your family.

^^^x2...and when you find where they keep the miracles...let me know!


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
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Originally Posted By: bttrfly
y
I know you were put off but I think it's from a place of real sadness and depression. Think Eeyore. "We'll never make it" any of those depressed characters. I don't think Mother's Day will be the next visit. I wouldn't be surprised if you heard from her tomorrow.


Hi Bttrfly ((((hugs)))), yes Eeyore , from the Winnie the pooh cartoons. Very depressed character. Fits the way my XW is talking.

I'm hoping for an after the mothers day contact, to give me a break... but you are right. Got a message today. see below.

Originally Posted By: job

BTW, thank you for starting a new thread and linking your threads up.


Hi Job, thanks for the support :-)
As for me linking my post. It wasn't easy at first but after 10 posts its a walk in the park. Anything I can do to free up your workload I will.

Originally Posted By: SBJ
Irish I don't have any advice, but can only lend support. You are an inspiration to so many of us on here. God bless you and your family.


Hi SBJ. I think we are all in this together. I may not post much on other sitches but I do learn from reading them. My strength is only as strong as my teammate. And here we are an amazing team.

Originally Posted By: Gordie

^^^x2...and when you find where they keep the miracles...let me know!


Yes that famous miracle. Or secret to breaking the MLC code. DB may be the closest thing yet to a solution. Loving yourself and holding to your boundaries is key. Both have to be played out together or it won't move along as it should. A little Guinness here and there helps too.

St Patricks day this weekend. It's my time to shine. I will be in the parade in my community with my girls. Sadly we have just received over 3 feet of snow. My plans to have the roof and doors off the jeep to properly wave the Irish flags may change. We will see. Our main parade in the city is this Sunday. I will be in a smaller parade a few days later.


Messages about her writing the girls. She really hopes the girls verbalize their thoughts and feelings to her. So they can go forward. Also wants some of our old photos and videos. She'd like to see the old memories.

I replied.

Make sure you just choose the right words. I can't tell you what to write. What I can say is they will want to see action. If they reply and verbalize their feelings to you great. I don't want to say you need to be the adult here. But you do.

Again. Actions are worth so much.

It will be my pleasure to drop off a memory stick of the files.


She answers with a question I will avoid.

Action will come once we start talking. If they don't give me the chance then its pointless.

What are these actions I need to do?



I'll leave it at that. No comment or answer to that question. I won't get into the leave him, move to an apartment or any of that. She can work that out with them.

Irish


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
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The Jeep, Guinness and a Miracle is all I need as well. Hope the St. Paddy's Day Parade is fun for you and the girls.

Not to make you jealous, but it'll be in the mid 70's and sunny in my part of the country this weekend...I think the top will be off of my JKU for sure.


Me 49 W46
T25 M22
S22 D18 S13
W had EA Apr-Jul 2016
Dropped Bomb 7/9/16
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Hi Irish
My suggestion is to write back :
"Re what are these actions. That is a great question. I do not have an answer for you exw but I do have a suggestion. You may want to ask the girls what actions they would need to see from you in order to move forward. They are the best judge of what they need to see in order to trust enough to move forward."
Or something like that. Make sense?

Also are you sure you want to see her rather than mailing the memory stick? Just making sure here that you are ok.

{{{{{hugs}}}}}


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
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Another thought as I wait for my car repair:

Does she understand that the power in this relationship between her and the girls is with the girls? Sometimes I read her texts and think she's thinking she is still the authority figure and others I read and it seems she understands that she no longer has that right. Not sure what your take is on this? Xoxoxo


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
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That this too, was a gift."
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Hi Irish, sounds like you are generally doing well and I'm pleased for you. Also, you're calmly dealing with quite a lot of contact from your XW, so credit to you.

I think it is a compassionate and kind thing to provide a sort of bridge between her and her children, as you are doing.

She's in a tough spot for sure. Your girls don't sound as though they would want to reconnect if OM is still in the picture. She gave up a lot for OM, and may not be ready to give him up? It's a bit of a catch 22 for her perhaps?

I think reflecting the action question back to her like Bttrfly suggests is a good idea. I think the kind of action to take is all about the kind of life we want to live going forwards. But she may not be in that place yet, you know?

I do think the direction of travel is a better one though - but it is very early days too...

Take care and have a great time at the parade smile


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Irish,

You're doing a superb job in handling your communications with your XW.

As. Former MLCer, I recall fearing rejection and flailing about as I tried to regain my own bearings. I tell the spouses of MLCera that they do look to you as their wingman on how they can move forward and I'm sensing that your XW is looking for some pointers although I do recognize that she's not fully embracing her own responsibility in the breakdown of her relationship with the girls.

Action will come once we start talking. If they don't give me the chance then its pointless.

What are these actions I need to do?


Suggested response:

A first step would be trying to put yourself in the girls' shoes and see your past behavior through the eyes of 12/14 year old along with really hurtful comments such as "not wanting to be their mother." As you can imagine, they've been deeply hurt by your choices and comments. It will require more than just a few words to re-build bridges with the girls. You know the quote that I think applies fairly well: "talk is cheap." Actions are what really matters here if you truly wish to repair your relationship with the girls. Trust has been broken. It will be up to you to make sincere amends with them.

You're a smart woman and I believe that you do desire to reconnect with the girls. I wish you well as you figure this out yourself.

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I like Wonka's suggested reply. I am not sure about the talk is cheap comment. The previous sentence mentions words being not enough so that could come across as criticising/judging to W.

Just to clarify is the OM being out of the picture a criteria the girls have mentioned? Technically the two relationships are unrelated and could come exist. The problem as I see it is she abandoned them completely not that she is with OM. Yes they are linked and I in no way endorse OM.

I try to put myself in your shoes. I am not sure I manage to do so fully as how your W left so completely is the exact opposite of my W. She I feel uses her love of our boys as a crutch to get by IMO. Still I understand that it cannot be easy for you. I love that you believe she can potentially make it to where she needs to get to rebuild her R with your girls.

Being defeated before trying is typical depression talking. Unfortunately it creates self fulfilling prophecies that "prove" she was right. Maybe to encourage W to try you could validate this fear: " maybe you ate right, that your first few attempts may not convince the girls to be more open to rebuilding a R with you. It is even highly possible. But over time with consistent and progressive intentions and movement towards them, I am confident you can do this. It will not be easy and it will take time. However like anything important, achieving it will greatly outweigh the effort required. Don't be discouraged from taking the steps forward just because it seems impossible. It is not impossible, just difficult. If you do not try, it will not happen."

Maybe you are not comfortable validating this and encouraging her. Even so maybe a different approach from you could be enough to break the current cycle.

I will raise a glass to you tomorrow. Slainte mo chara.

Best wishes


R 25 years
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I guess it makes sense the MLCEr would want an easy fix
especially since they only live in partial reality

I like the approach of encouraging her and letting her know you have confidence that she can reconnect with the girls and it may take time as trust was broken

I would speak simply to her with as little words as possible to get the thought across

Good luck
you are doing very well
you also need to remember this will take time so dont give up
she seems like she is in baby stages to come out and she may go back in many times


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Yes, I agree with the approach of having confidence in her - but stepping back from telling her what she needs to do.

It's her life to live after all..and whilst I think it's in any child's best interests to be in touch with Mum, it is best for them if she is as healthy as possible - ie: having worked her own way through some of this stuff.

You're doing a great job Irish smile


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Originally Posted By: SBJ
The Jeep, Guinness and a Miracle is all I need as well. Hope the St. Paddy's Day Parade is fun for you and the girls.

Not to make you jealous, but it'll be in the mid 70's and sunny in my part of the country this weekend...I think the top will be off of my JKU for sure.


Hi SBJ.. I am so jealous. I am dying to take the doors off and enjoy the jeep the way it was meant to be enjoyed. Another 3-4 weeks before spring weather hits us up here.
I'll raise a Guinness to you my friend

Originally Posted By: bttrfly

Also are you sure you want to see her rather than mailing the memory stick? Just making sure here that you are ok.


Hi bttrfly ((( hugs))) I will not be seeing her. I drive by her work everyday, sometimes multiple times a day. Not on purpose, I have no choice. I live on an island and the main bridge to get on and off passes right in front of her work. I can put it in an envelop and just drop it off one night or weekend when nobody is there.

Originally Posted By: bttrfly

Does she understand that the power in this relationship between her and the girls is with the girls? Sometimes I read her texts and think she's thinking she is still the authority figure and others I read and it seems she understands that she no longer has that right.


Yes I see that too. The girls actually hold the power to decide. I won't influence them either way. They need to feel that they can trust her. I can't be holding their hands. My XW will see that manipulation or controlling behavior will get her nowhere. She must learn to go slow, build trust and respect and maybe, just maybe she will find an opening.

Originally Posted By: Sotto

I think it is a compassionate and kind thing to provide a sort of bridge between her and her children, as you are doing.

She's in a tough spot for sure. Your girls don't sound as though they would want to reconnect if OM is still in the picture. She gave up a lot for OM, and may not be ready to give him up? It's a bit of a catch 22 for her perhaps?


The girls won't approach XW if she is with, living with or has anything to do with OM. He is a huge factor in her abandoning the girls. In early MLC, she did disconnect but she did have joint custody. I tried to help XW and the girls connect through therapy that I help set up but didn't attend with them. It was them 3 only. I tried to help XW. When she had a week off in the summer, I recommend that she spend time alone with them. She chose OM each time. Moved out of their apartment and dumped it all there.. for OM.

I'll be that bridge but XW has to want to cross it.


Originally Posted By: Wonka

As. Former MLCer, I recall fearing rejection and flailing about as I tried to regain my own bearings. I tell the spouses of MLCera that they do look to you as their wingman on how they can move forward and I'm sensing that your XW is looking for some pointers although I do recognize that she's not fully embracing her own responsibility in the breakdown of her relationship with the girls.


Hi Wonka. it's been a long while. I appreciate you dropping by. I thank you :-)

Yes, I feel she is testing me a little, looking for that support or for me to hold her hand. I still think she needs to learn to ride her own bike even if it I can give her training wheels. When she really gets going. I'll hold the seat for a while and run with her. Until then, let's see if she can make it a little further along alone.

Originally Posted By: Wonka

Suggested response:

A first step would be trying to put yourself in the girls' shoes and see your past behavior through the eyes of 12/14 year old along with really hurtful comments such as "not wanting to be their mother." As you can imagine, they've been deeply hurt by your choices and comments. It will require more than just a few words to re-build bridges with the girls. You know the quote that I think applies fairly well: "talk is cheap." Actions are what really matters here if you truly wish to repair your relationship with the girls. Trust has been broken. It will be up to you to make sincere amends with them.

You're a smart woman and I believe that you do desire to reconnect with the girls. I wish you well as you figure this out yourself.


Love this response. I want to avoid pointing out the things she has said and done. I'm sure deep down she is aware, or she is still blind to it. Either way, it's pointless pointing it out until she takes ownership. Putting her in the girls shoes is good. If she can feel that it might show her that she must take action. Hopefully she can.
I will continue to give her positives and encourage her without telling her what to do.

Originally Posted By: roist

Just to clarify is the OM being out of the picture a criteria the girls have mentioned? Technically the two relationships are unrelated and could come exist. The problem as I see it is she abandoned them completely not that she is with OM. Yes they are linked and I in no way endorse OM.


Yes a huge criteria. They have zero respect for OM and XW if they are together.
OM is a huge part of her choosing him over them. I hope her dental insurance fixed his teeth because he had a lot missing. Sort of like meth mouth. He has a very low paying job, lives in one of the worst neighborhoods. Proud that his rent is so cheap so he can afford pot. Made XW declare she wasn't living with him in 2015 so his tax return would be bigger. A real winner.
2nd. Is XW needs to put the girls first for a while.
3rd. Quit pot and drinking.
4th. take ownership of what she did

Originally Posted By: roist

Being defeated before trying is typical depression talking. Unfortunately it creates self fulfilling prophecies that "prove" she was right. Maybe to encourage W to try you could validate this fear:


Yes I see that she can't face anything really just yet. Small things only so far but it's better that it was in January. As you would say a positive :-)
I know she can do it. I feel it. I felt it the day she walked out that she will get through this and be a better person. If I'm wrong. I am in a good ... no great place in life. I lose nothing.

Originally Posted By: peacetoday

you are doing very well
you also need to remember this will take time so dont give up
she seems like she is in baby stages to come out and she may go back in many times


Yes, I am expecting a return to darkness sometime soon. She needs it to process all the things that were shared between me and her. She need to dwell on it.
I'm hoping the next time she does appear , I will see a more lucid XW. With a mission to repair her relationship. Will do anything to achieve it.

Originally Posted By: Sotto

It's her life to live after all..and whilst I think it's in any child's best interests to be in touch with Mum,


Yes its important that the girls have both parents. Healthy and emotionally stable.

It's all I want.

--------------------------------------------

So I got some great advise and wrote XW a short letter.

XW, I can't even imagine what you are going through. I know you really want to connect with the girls. You can do it, I know you can. You need to understand the minds of a 14/16 year old though. Put yourself in their shoes. The horrible words you said hold deep and hurt. But also remember the love you had for them and they had for you holds deep too. You need to tap into that.

If this attempts doesn't work, it will not be for nothing. It will lay the foundation for your next attempt and in time your efforts will pay off.

I haven't written you off. I don't think they have either.

As for your question on what you need to do. I thought about it and the girls will be the best to answer that one. I'm sure you have ideas. Discuss it in your letter.

have a good day.
Irish



Her reply.

Thank you for this message. I will write to them. They can write back anything they want to say to me, even if its bad, it has to come out.

I will really like to see our family memories on video and photos . thank you again.
XW


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
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PERFECT!

just perfect! xoxoxo well done, mon ami. Je suis très fier de toi!!!! {{{{{{Irish}}}}}}

are you exhausted by all this contact? I think I would be. xoxoxo


M 20+ T25+
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yes- you can tell from her response

she appreciates the encouragement and thats probably what she needs most

she has lost faith in herself so seeing you still have faith in her
and you are on her side is helpful


It would be for anyone to know that another is for us
enjoy the weekend!


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Hi Irish - just caught up and wow, seems like your XW is trying to figure out the lay of the land. I hope her therapist is helping her through this process. I think it would help her to have a neutral party explaining the severity of what she's done. It's clear it hasn't hit her.

My thoughts are with you. Keep being a tank.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
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1/18: H files, now divorced
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Hi Bttrfly, Peace and HaWho
:-)

Well I had an amazing St-Pats weekend. One of the best I've had in a long long time. It continues this weekend with a smaller more local parade in which I am participating in with my girls. They are calling for 30degrees so quite chilly. I will have the jeep roof off so the girls can stand up in the back and I'll have the doors off. Heat full blast and plenty of hot chocolate.

As for my XW. Nothing from her since last week and no letters. I started copyin files, photos and family home movies to an external memory card but have stopped. Looking at them was tough. When I even look back a few months before BD. She either had us all fooled or is completely someone I don't know.

I guess I'm not ready for memory lane. Will continue that project at another date.

Hope you are all well

Irish 🍀


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
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Yes looking at those images must have been tough. Don't continue if it affects you too much. Looking after you is priority.

Maybe you could copy folders without opening them. Regardless I would still drop over what you did manage to do.

Ah . The Irish do tend to drag out a good party! Enjoy your second Saint Patricks weekend!!


Enjoy the lapse in communication.

Best wishes


R 25 years
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oh mon ami je comprends! I just had a data transfer from my old laptop to a new external hard drive - what a trip down the lane I didn't need!!! Shark eyes when you blow up the photos as far back as 2012.

Oh if I knew then what I know now! ! Would I have been able to change the outcome? I don't think so, because it's not about us, is it? It's about them. Glad you are taking a break from that .

So happy your weekend was a blast! Was thinking of you and sending warm thoughts up North. Could you tell, lol?

And a second St. Pat's weekend? What an embarrassment of riches! Bet the girls are looking forward to it! These are the memories they will cherish as adults. Dad driving them in the parade, hot chocolate at the ready. You are such a great father to them. I'm so glad they have you - well, I'm so glad you all have each other!!!

Guess I will have to continue sending warming thoughts up North for this coming weekend also! Take care mon ami xoxoxoxo {{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

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Hi Roist
I took that advice and just copied the folders to a memory stick. No clue what pictures are there, duplicates or photos of me.
Let her clean it up and keep what she wants. I still have it since she has gone dark. No letter to the girls and no messages.
When she pops her head out again I'll drop it off in the mailbox of her work then. I don`t want to upset any process she is going though prematurely. figure she has a lot to think about because of our last communications we had.


with that said. I just received an email. lol speak of the devil.

I`ll read it later. No rush

As for us Irish. yes we stretch it out as far as we can. Was a very successful parade yesterday. The girls had blast.

Hi Bttrfly (((xx hugs xx)))
memory lane.. yes a tough one. I`ll avoid that trip for a while still. transfer of files is complete. I`ll read her email and if she asks for it I will send it along.

The Parade
It was amazing. Girls and I were part of the horse ranch group where they go riding. Promoting riding lessons. I bought them Irish cowboy hats and flags. They looked amazing. I had the jeep top off. doors off , decorated to the max. They were standing up in the back. Jumping in and out to hand out flyers. My 3rd Daughter joined in. She is not my biological daughter but she calls me dad.
Her dad is a 2 hour a week deal.

XW work was part of the photographers on site. Snapping away picks of the whole parade. XW was nowhere to be seen. Good thing.

My Facebook got bombarded of pics of us from friend and family. It was nice to get all the great feedback. The girls were happy and I was glowing.

so I will update you all on the current message. 10 day break from it all was nice.


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
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Hi Irish - just thought I'd take a peek and I stumbled over your thread. I always felt a kinship with us each having 2 girls and an "MLC ghost" for their other parent.

Nothing has changed in our world. H lives with OW across the country. Has sent my girls a few texts. Oldest daughter replies sporatically. Youngest does not.

He has not reached out to ask for my help or advice. In some ways I think that would have to happen if he really desired a relationship with them. Not obstructing or commenting just staying out of it. It is getting a bit easier. The more time passes the more the girls and I have erased his place at the family table.

We've painted walls, rearranged things and have created a life for our family of three. It was the only way to breathe - creating a new environment. The dog died so we got two cats. The holidays approached and we invented new rituals. We've held on to just a bit of the past to keep us upright and breathing. We have packed a lot away so it won't become an anchor that drowns us all.

Sending you prayers for peace, wisdom and patience. I have no doubt your girls will be able to face their mom in their own way because they have you. Your thoughtful restraint has served you well.

It takes a LONG time - no matter how your XW behaves. In the end your XW remains your family. I never thought I'd have to accept this kind of treatment from someone who was so close - it isn't as if she is the quirky Aunt. She might not sit at the table but you always know that for your girls you'd have to make room and welcome them if they really want to be there.

Sorry to hijack. It is good to see you are the same guy trying to move forward in the best way possible. That takes courage and a lot of love. Send you the best.


M:25 years at BD w/ 2 daughters
BD: 5/14
Separated 6/14 - H moved cross country w/OW
D Final 9/17

“I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it.”
― Maya Angelou



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Originally Posted By: 123Gwen

He has not reached out to ask for my help or advice. In some ways I think that would have to happen if he really desired a relationship with them. Not obstructing or commenting just staying out of it. It is getting a bit easier. The more time passes the more the girls and I have erased his place at the family table.


Hi Gwen, you can hijack my post any time you wish. We are all here for shared information and guidance.

We too feel XW (their mom) slowly is being erased. It's sad that they can go weeks without mentioning anything about her. They only bring her up when she pops her head out to see if her shadow will scare her back into her hole. I'm so gald you and your girls are doing good and healing as you go. Repainting and decorating is a must. Fresh look and it helps them claim more into their home. Your XH is missing out.

Originally Posted By: 123Gwen

It takes a LONG time - no matter how your XW behaves. In the end your XW remains your family.

Yes, it will take quite some time for all of us. No fast forward and I don't want a half baked cookie anyway. Can I say cookie or is that degrading. I'll say cake. I don't want a half baked cake.
She is family and I'll treat her as such. I do have distant relatives that I am nice to but I wont make an effort to see them.

So yesterday as I was writing here about my XW being dark, I get this small message from her.

Hi Irish!! I got an email from D14 teacher. It says D14 did not hand in an assignment on friday and will be penalized 25%??? Do you know about this. I received it Friday!

hi,
Yes I know about it and all is good,. D14 missed Friday because she wasn't feeling well. She handed the project in Monday morning and her teacher said no penalty. The email was a to all email. D14 had a justified excuse, their are other kids who showed up Friday empty handed. The penalty will be for them.


no reply after that. It was after 5 pm when i replied so I am still in the 9-4 time slot of communication.

Tuesday (today)


Hi,How are the girls? I bet they are excited for Easter!!! They love Egg hunts!!!:-)

OK the girls loved egg hunts when they were 3 - 12 years of age. They are teens. Sure they like it but they just want the chocolate, no work to get it loll.

I guess what they say is true. MLC'r will see children as infants still and treat them as such.

Also I saw D14 in a parade photo via my work. There's a video but I am unable to view it.

Her photographer that was on site took pictures and also filmed the entire parade. I viewed the video as her marketing team posted it on the city's webpage. We were clearly seen and even zoomed into the jeep, myself and the girls.

They must have had a great time at the Parade. Do you have those pictures and home videos. Memories.

I took some time to answer but did answer before noon.

Yes the girls are doing great. We had a blast at the parade. As for the photo and movie files. I've been quite busy these last 2 weeks with St-Pats festivities I didn't have time. I'll get it done soon. I wanted to clean it up and delete duplicates and pics of me but I'll need some more time. take care.

no reply, so maybe my theory is wrong about her only messaging during work hours away from OM.

I'll keep you all posted. Positives are: Asking about the girls, inquiring about D14 studies and still wanting to look at memory lane.


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
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here's to fully baked cakes.

yes, they think the rest of us went into freeze mode when they left.

glad you had fun! xoxo


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

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It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
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You could "accidentally" slip in a folder or two of some super events/experiences that she missed out on over the last two years.

Just a tip about your reply. I would have left out the line " I wanted to ....."
You don't have to explain anything to W. You hadn't time. There ate many good reasons not to explain decisions. Most successful people make a decision and rarely justify it. I could explain this better but it is not overly important, just a thought I had when reading.

Best wishes


R 25 years
M 14 years
S11 & S13
Working on it alone since Oct 2014
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Irish

Yes it is good that she issuing about girls and even -yes acted like a mom inquiring about the homework issue

and yes funny how they wake up as if the girls are still younger as when when the crises first started- time stands still for them


have a good Wednesday!


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Hi Bttrfly, Roist and Peace :-)

Bttrfly and Peace, Yes i see that she thinks the girls are still how she left them. even younger , their egg hunt stopped while XW was still here.

Roist, funny you said that. I was going to put in a few new pics of the girls but decided against it.

I quickly completed the Memory stick and drove to her work. Placed it in an envelop to her attention and drove off.

When I got home XW was in a mood to chat. plenty of messages about how busy work is, that she will be seeing her dad this weekend and how she was happy to hear about my busy St-pats weekends.

Wait a minute.. hear about my weekends??? I asked her to explain.

I have my ways Irish. Facebook is a open window if you know the right people.

I remained calm. Went to my Facebook to ensure my settings were set to private. They were. so I still have a spy feeding her info. Lovely.

Well I wish you a good night, the memory stick is dropped off at your work, hope your dad is good. Say Hi to him for me, even thought I don't hear from him. Take care.

Thank you so much for the memory stick. Since you mentioned my dad, He is not well. maybe one week left of his life. And how dare you say that you don't hear from him. You keep our kids away from him, I can;t say hi to him he is deaf now.
He will die in a week. Don't you understand that. Don't ever talk to me again.... EVER...


I read this and i'm like ... wtf.

I'm sorry to hear about your dad. I didn't know. We did see him in the beginning when you left but it was hard on him and the girls. I continued to call him until one day I said, If I stop calling , will he contact me. I tried it and he disappeared. No XMas card or nothing. So, don't blame me. You broke the relationship between them for what it was worth. You can blame whoever you want but the girls and I are not part of it. And where is the letter you promised them?


After that she went silent. I know I vented a bit much. Defensive I know.

The girls were upstairs and I couldn't hide my frustration. I told them briefly about their grandfather. His last week . On deaths bed.
They were sad and at the same time mad at their mom. They are not taking any blame in this , I am so happy for that.

I went to bed thinking about XW dad. It's sad. Not right that the girls won't see him one last time. The funeral they said they won't go. I haven't cried in a while but last night was tough.

This morning I'm at work. Email comes in.

Irish...I cried all last night... ok maybe you misunderstood me. But I don't need to be talked to like that. I am not dirt or a piece of shiate. The letter is in your mailbox. I doubt the girls will even read it. wasted my time. I've said I was sorry. You will never forgive me.

A simple sorry is not enough. You downplay what happened, you show no empathy to what the girls have gone through. No real effort to reconnect with them.
You have your memory stick. I owe you nothing now.
As for treating you like a piece of shiate or dirt . I never said those words If you see yourself as that please don't make it sound like it came from me. nothing more to say.


so I get home tonight. Girls are already home form school.I get the letter and put it aside. We have diner, watch the flash episode from last night and I tell them. Girls your mother has written a letter. Your choice to read it or not. I am going in my office to finish up some work.

During that time I get a text message from her sister.

Irish. I don't know what my sister told you but. My dad is doing fine. His Chemo is complete. He decided not to continue it. He is on medication to end his days comfortably. He doesn't have only a week. He is up and about. Actually we went shopping with him today. We think about you and the girls often. You are in our hearts and if you want to write back I will be happy to talk to you. Tell the girls not to worry about their grandfather. xx


after reading that.. and in shock for what my XW told me. only to make me feel sorry for her. incredible. I go right to the girls and share this message. they are relieved and even open to going to visit with him.

The girls however have disgust in their faces about the letter. I told them its theirs and I don;t need to know whats in it. D14 is laughing. D16 says she never should of opened it and just put return to sender.

it goes like this .

Hi girls , I don't know what to say its been so long. You have the right to be mad at me but if we want to move forward you need to get over it. I can't say things here, it is better face to face. All i can say is. If you want a mother or a friend I am here. You know how to reach me. I can't promise you that life will be the same.

If we do see each other, I ask you one thing. It has to be with respect. You are not to yell at me or call me names.

it's your move.
i love you lots.


So I am at a loss. The letter was written on graph paper, double spaced.
No remorse, no sorry , no feeling. It was more of let it go, respect me and it's up to you to fix it.


She is clearly not where I thought she was. Or simply her messages over the last few weeks were simply playing me.

I think I'll go walk my dog then a nice cup of green tea and play some PS4


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
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it's 2am and I'm exhausted so i will write more after sleep and reflection. in the meantime {{{{{{{hugs irish xoxoxo}}}}}}}


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

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That must be a head wrecking exchange.

Your anger and frustration showed in your replies to he. Understandable but will probably not help any of ye. I believe at times we need to hit back with some home truths. That being said if you cannot reply without anger/emotion I suggest you wait 24 hours to reply. Even consider not replying.

Your W is not feeling good at the moment. That shows. She is all over the place. Accept this and leave her to it. She isn't capable of doing what it takes to reconnect with the girls YET.

I would not assume she was manipulating with regards to her contact. Her pain is making her see things differently to you. Don't forget she is also coming to terms with losing her dad. It may not be within the week but he is being treated to be comfortable not cured. I went through that a few years ago. It is tough. I'm just saying that she has a lot on her plate. Be compassionate. By that I mean feel empathy, but ultimately these are her issues to deal with. Give her space and time.

Maybe the death of her dad will have an affect on her where she re evsluates her thinking. That can be a catalyst that ends some mlc. Regardless I fear she may not be capable to reconnect with the girls before dealing with the loss of her dad.

I am glad her sister reached out to you. That was nice. I do hope the girls go to see their granddad.

Best wishes


R 25 years
M 14 years
S11 & S13
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Hi Bttrfly,
2am :-) you are burning the candle late.

Hi Roist
Her father was diagnosed with terminal cancer 3 months before BD.
Was given 3-6 months to live. She has been dealing with his upcoming death for quite a while.

I will be given her lots of time. No plan to contact her anytime soon.

Yes I will make plans to see her dad. The girls want to as well. I'm glad. They don't need that regret to haunt them later in life.


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
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Irish,

I think you are very wise not to contact her again. You've given her the thumb drive, so now it's up to her to build a relationship w/her daughters.

She's dealing w/a lot on her plate at the moment...however, stating what she did about her father was manipulation on her part. She is still looking for that illusive key to unlock the door for her to have a relationship w/you and the girls...but she's going about it the wrong way. Unfortunately, by stating what she did about her father will not gain trust w/you if he's doing fairly well at the moment. She is feeling sorry for herself and is looking for empathy and yes, even sympathy. I know I may sound harsh in this...but she's got to bottom out.

I'm so sorry she's still "out there". I'm glad you are going to go see your father-in-law and the girls want to go to. At least you can visit w/him and actually see where he is in his health crisis for yourself. No one knows who the man upstairs will call us home and who knows your visit may just cheer him up a bit.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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i don't know Job, she could be like my exh who takes a kernel of truth and turns it into the most negative thing imaginable, and truly believes what he says.

scrambled MLC brains, either way. You and the girls deserve better Irish. xoxoxo

(p.s. son was up sick so, unpleasant night)


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

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That this too, was a gift."
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bttrfly,

It's hard to say what she was thinking. She may have been trying to play Irish like a fiddle or she could have taken that kernel of truth and turned it into something else. There's just no telling when it comes to the MLC brain waves. Either way, it may have back fired on her and makes her look untrustworthy and manipulative to Irish and the girls.

It's such a shame how this turned out last evening.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Job I completely agree, although something good did come of it, as Irish and the girls will see her father before the end xo


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
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Bttrfly...that's the only good thing that came out of the exchange in the last 24-48 hours. It's difficult dealing w/the MLCers and they off the wall behaviors.

Irish has done an a great job of being a father to his two girls, while dealing w/this stuff. I just hope and pray she hits bottom and starts getting her act together.


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Irish -

Caught up with your sitch before bed last night but didn't reply because I felt my response was harsh. I wanted to see what others said. I read what bttrfly and job said and I agree.

Her email is all over the place. It's pleading but also dismissive and with conditions. There's no heavy lifting on her part. It's an olive branch without leaves. No contact is the continued way to go.

At least the girls with see their grandfather. Great stroke of fortune that her sister reached out to you.


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Hi Irish, gosh that's a bit of a whirlwind for you all. I read her note to your girls as saying:

You need to get over this
My life has changed (OM) and you need to accept this
I don't expect to be shouted at

I can see why your girls may not respond well to that.

Fwiw, I think she is creating a fair amount of drama - and I also agree with Roist & think you may want to step back before replying. Why get caught up in her drama?

She is dealing with a lot with her Dad, and doesn't have great coping skills either - that's a shame. Plus her clumsy attempts to reconnect with her daughters...

I would offer less to her, and practice compassion in your (brief) replies too. Maybe post here and await a reply before responding?

Glad you all had a good weekend and the parade went well 😃


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Remind me again - is she on drugs? Because something about that letter sure sounded like what somebody on drugs would write.

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Mon ami ... this has been in the back of my mind percolating all day. I'm just going to give you a brain dump. As always, take what you want and consign the rest to the trash heap.

I don't know what to say about the spy and FB. That's unfathomable to me. Sorry you have to go through this in addition to everything else.

Irish ... I say this with love and respect. I hope that you can tell that given the limitations of this medium.

Bear with me, there is a point to this:
My mother was diagnosed with stage three cancer three years ago. After a grueling treatment of chemo and radiation it was eradicated, only to return five months later. They said she now had stage 4 and was expected to only survive at most two years. They gave her more radiation. She has been clear since Aug of 2014. I watched her retreat from everything and everyone that was even remotely negative. She truly needed all of her energy just to get through the treatment. Prior to diagnosis, my mother was very negative. This process transformed her for the better, but it took a lot of work on her part and I saw her shy away from stressful situations because she was already in a fight for her life.

Your ex FIL was diagnosed with terminal cancer right around the same time your exw went off the deep end. At a time when he needed all of his energy and focus to survive, he was faced with a repeat of what his own wife did to him, and had to watch yet another daughter succumb to this MLC madness.

Irish, you have such a huge heart and so much compassion. I know that it hurt you and the girls when he didn't initiate calls. I very respectfully suggest that perhaps - just maybe - he too, was in a fight for his life. Maybe he didn't know what to do? And I hate to say this Irish, but God alone knows what exw said. Not that it's any excuse for hurting the girls. It isn't. But I do ask you to for one moment think about it from his perspective. He wasn't able to stop it when it happened in his marriage. It must remind him of his own situation, only having the added pain of watching his daughter, son in law and granddaughters go through this too. I can't imagine how horrible that must be

As for your eew (see, I told you the autocorrect spells exw as eew), this to me seems like a touch and go. I'd refer to Cali for a definite on that, but it sure seems like she's monitoring you, and knows you're moving on, so she pops out of her tunnel a bit to stir things up. The key to me is the slip about FB. She's watching from a distance. These MLCers want control because they know they are internally out of control. I think that's what the touch and go's are all about. Again, I'm not condoning her behavior by any means, but I am saying that awareness of this can help you the next time she pops out.

My dear friend I am so very sorry for the emotional rollercoaster and the pain. You deserve peace, light and love. You and the girls deserve space to heal and grow.

I hope with all my heart that I haven't caused you more pain or aggravation from this post. As always, I wish you only the best of everything. Much love and hugs to you and the girls {{{{{{{xoxoxoxoxo}}}}}}}


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Originally Posted By: bttrfly


As for your eew (see, I told you the autocorrect spells exw as eew), this to me seems like a touch and go. I'd refer to Cali for a definite on that, but it sure seems like she's monitoring you, and knows you're moving on, so she pops out of her tunnel a bit to stir things up. The key to me is the slip about FB. She's watching from a distance. These MLCers want control because they know they are internally out of control. I think that's what the touch and go's are all about. Again, I'm not condoning her behavior by any means, but I am saying that awareness of this can help you the next time she pops out.



As far as the T-n-G ... I do not even think its on that level. Reading along .. yes Irish I am still up to date with your sitch though I seldom post anymore... its just a series of Temp Checks at this point and looking at the emails through my MLC-Mindreading Glasses I would lean more towards the fact she definitely is terrified of rejection which is not uncommon with the MLCrs especially given her sitch basically abandoning the 2 daughters as she did and being faced with the social stigma that comes with that ie. "What kind of mother would ..."

My labrador ears perked up with the last comment she made:

"it's your move.
i love you lots."

This is simply her validating herself, its a "I have reached out and done all I can the ball is clearly in their court if they want to have me in their life its on them" which is a cop-out at best .... this line alone shows where she is in her journey. She has a good amount of work to do ... but she does appear to at the least be poking out a touch. Hard to say once faced with the amount of work it would take to open up a relationship with the daughters may make her shoot back into the tunnel for a bit or possible be the driving force to make her take a good hard look in the mirror and start the process of digging out. This was the case with my MLCr, she realized that all the damage done was not going to magically disappear and it very well appeared easier to run back into the tunnel vs rolling up the sleeves and doing the work.

Irish I think you have handled this all extremely well ... with grace and not allowing your boundaries to be crossed ... keeping the relationship between your girls and their mother just that .. between them is paramount and you have done this flawlessly where it would be so easy to see someone want to protect them from her at all costs you have raised to smart kids who can handle themselves which is a direct testament to the father they have.

Things may be a bit bouncy ... hang in there.


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Just a guess but I think the MLCer has to continue the lie because its the only way they can keep going

they deceive themselves

the lie is I didn't do that much, It wasn't so bad, it was for the best for everyone, I deserve my happiness, Istill dont have to be responsible, I am a good person-I really didn't hurt anyone

Im not sure why she would lie about her dad, maybe at the time she thought he was dying and new information came about his progress, maybe she is on drugs or mood altering substances
You continue to handle her well and she just reinforces the fact that she needs lot more time to get through it
unfortunately it is not in our time

I felt that when my XH finally left me a VM months back,,first time since 2009--he was still looking to see if I would fix it or him in some way
he apologized but talk is cheap..I felt I handled it best with no response back( I had his friend contact him as he requested)
I could tell he wasn't ready to give up his position
he didn't hit bottom-


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Hi everyone

Originally Posted By: job

I think you are very wise not to contact her again. You've given her the thumb drive, so now it's up to her to build a relationship w/her daughters.

She's dealing w/a lot on her plate at the moment...however, stating what she did about her father was manipulation on her part.


Hi Job :-) I see it as manipulation as well to make us feel bad. Victim is her game . She did it with my mom months ago and even confessed to me that she tried to manipulate my mom with guilt

Originally Posted By: job
I know I may sound harsh in this...but she's got to bottom out.


Yes, I agree with you 100% . bottom is still far away for her. She has too many enablers. Her mom paying for her lost income. Her BF , drugs and drinking to self medicate.

Originally Posted By: bttrfly
Job I completely agree, although something good did come of it, as Irish and the girls will see her father before the end xo


Yes, we are planning a trip this Friday to see him I spoke to his girlfriend and she should call me to confirm Thursday night. It will do him and the girls some good. Sad thing is, the girls think their mom will be hiding in the basement and abuse them. I won't let that happen.

Originally Posted By: Brubeck
Irish -

Caught up with your sitch before bed last night but didn't reply because I felt my response was harsh. I wanted to see what others said. I read what bttrfly and job said and I agree.


Hi Brubeck :-) thanks for ringing in. No worries about being harsh or not. I read everyone's responses and take them all in. They help me see things at different angles and has saved my own sanity many times over.

Originally Posted By: Sotto
I read her note to your girls as saying:

You need to get over this
My life has changed (OM) and you need to accept this
I don't expect to be shouted at

I can see why your girls may not respond well to that.


Hi Sotto :-)Yes, it's not the best approach and it shows that she's not ready to connect to them.
She needs more time and needs to really see things for what they are.

Originally Posted By: kml
Remind me again - is she on drugs? Because something about that letter sure sounded like what somebody on drugs would write.


Hi KML :-) Yes, drugs are involved. And alcohol. She was a social drinker. 1-2 beers every month at an outing. Not a wine drinker and at home we hardly touched the stuff. When she'd join me at the pub she would have a pint of Guinness and that's it. She quit smoking 17 years ago. Has smoked a joint once in all our time together and felt tired and did not like it.

After BD, she was having wine coolers daily, got drunk a few times, started smoking a pack a day and is a avid pot user. Her BF has crack teeth and is a pot head. Let's just say she is not in the best of hands.

Originally Posted By: bttrfly


I don't know what to say about the spy and FB. That's unfathomable to me. Sorry you have to go through this in addition to everything else.


hi Bttrfly :-) Well I didn't drop down in any friends on FB. I just hope the message was clear and people mind their own business.

Originally Posted By: bttrfly

Your ex FIL was diagnosed with terminal cancer right around the same time your exw went off the deep end. At a time when he needed all of his energy and focus to survive, he was faced with a repeat of what his own wife did to him, and had to watch yet another daughter succumb to this MLC madness.


You are so right. I don't blame him and I really feel for the guy. Having his wife do this and now his youngest daughter.

Originally Posted By: bttrfly
As for your eew (see, I told you the autocorrect spells exw as eew), this to me seems like a touch and go. I'd refer to Cali for a definite on that, but it sure seems like she's monitoring you, and knows you're moving on, so she pops out of her tunnel a bit to stir things up. The key to me is the slip about FB. She's watching from a distance.


Funny that "eew"... gets me each time. Yes, she can do what she wants as long as I don't hear of it. I protect my FB and privacy is on high. I avoid her FB for a year and a half now.

Originally Posted By: CaliGuy

its just a series of Temp Checks at this point and looking at the emails through my MLC-Mindreading Glasses I would lean more towards the fact she definitely is terrified of rejection which is not uncommon with the MLCrs especially given her sitch basically abandoning the 2 daughters as she did and being faced with the social stigma that comes with that ie. "What kind of mother would ..."


Hi Cali :-) yes fear of rejection plays big time with her. Not wanting the girls to speak their minds. MIL also told XW she is afraid tht the girls will call her out on her aciotns . So MIL avoids the girls. How to be an adult by MLC.r grandma.

Originally Posted By: CaliGuy

"it's your move.
i love you lots."

This is simply her validating herself, its a "I have reached out and done all I can the ball is clearly in their court if they want to have me in their life its on them" which is a cop-out at best ....


like some sort of a game. Like you said, it's in the girls court now as per XW. She needs to process this some more and try again hopefully. That letter will make it hard for the girls to even open a 2nd one.


Originally Posted By: CaliGuy
She has a good amount of work to do ... but she does appear to at the least be poking out a touch. Hard to say once faced with the amount of work it would take to open up a relationship with the daughters may make her shoot back into the tunnel for a bit or possible be the driving force to make her take a good hard look in the mirror and start the process of digging out.


Yes the last month of contact has been very different. She did seem lucid but reserved. then this last week very MLC'r/entitled/not guilty. What she told me 3 weeks ago is something very different to what she actually wrote. Like another person wrote it.

Originally Posted By: peacetoday
Just a guess but I think the MLCer has to continue the lie because its the only way they can keep going

they deceive themselves

the lie is I didn't do that much, It wasn't so bad, it was for the best for everyone, I deserve my happiness, I still don't have to be responsible, I am a good person-I really didn't hurt anyone


Hi Peace :-) yes they deceive themselves but I think they actually believe what they say. When XW was still in the house and she'd lie, She had this smirk on her face like she was getting away with something. It got to a point that it was actually funny. Like Dr, Evil plotting to hold the planet ransom for a million dollars. mouhahaha


So this Friday I will take the girls to see their grandfather. He is happy we are coming.
His girlfriend said XW goes there every 2 months for 15 mins to a half hour. I don't expect her to be in the basement.

XW has been quiet. The letter is sitting on the living room table, the girls have not replied to it at all. D16 had a friend over this weekend and she read the letter. She couldn't believe that their mom is still missing in action. She knows my XW very well as she has been over quite the few times over the years.

D16 made a mistake. She went on XW Facebook using her friends account. She browsed the pictures on the timeline. Saw D14 pic from the parade we were in. XW writing , here's my baby girl. My daughter. Her mom adding the comment .. there's my grand daughter ., No pictures other that that one. She said she scrolled through her FB for months. Nothing about her and no other pictures. Typical narcissistic MLC'r. Selfies and quotes about life.

I reminded D16 it is no good to see her page. She replied she wanted to. She misses her old mom and needs to be sometimes reminded of who she is now. She doesn't want to forget all she has done. Doesn't want to get played again like she did after BD1. It's sad to hear her say things like that. I understand her at the same time. Forgiving XW isn't forgetting. And forgiving is usually after an apology or that she accepts what she had done. Not downplaying it and pretending it never happened.

I think I said this in a previous post. D16 starts jr. college next year. She has applied to the psychology program. She wants to help families that go through this type of crisis. God bless her.


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Irish

It is hard on the kids
but I see my kids now
although I'm sure a deep scar exists for their abandoned father
they do seem well adjusted to me
even with his weak attempts to connect with our D this past year and his cowardly decline to talk to her via phone, she is ok-

she understands that people sometimes get sick and some can't recover
-he is one of those

we hold a special hope of prayer for his well being-and one day recovery
but
I dont think my XH will ever recover..for himself too much damage
too many years out there on drugs
crazy OW now wife

at one point I thought he would get better
but many MLCer will continue on that road for the rest of their lives
some will turn..not sure the percentage

I wonder what they think when they look at their old lives..many were quite successful
financially well off with nice families--nice homes ect

to their present lives..drugs, crazy partners, no blood family, kids won't speak to them, living in poverty or debt.. apartments or rentals

I think one caring parent is enough not perfect but adequate to facilitate their growth
I am grateful that my kids seem ok and we got through the crises
at this point ---it seems long gone

everyone has forgot about dad and has moved on doing their own lives
and everyone is thriving except him

hang in
more will be revealed


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Hi Peace, your post made me think so much of my girls. That they are ok and they understand their mom is not well. You have been the rock for your kids. Job well done.


Just an update from the grandfather visit
Went to see XW's dad last Friday. Took the kids out of school and made the 3 hour trip.

Quick intro to her father and girlfriend
I'll call him Charlie and her Ruth.

Charlie is a LBS'r. From what I heard he took it bad. Became suicidal and depressed. Self injured himself to get attention.
He lost his job and never worked a day in his life again.
Went on disability and looked for a roommate to share expenses.Ruth comes in the picture. A widower who never worked and had 3 kids to raise. Needed someone to care for the bills, house and lawn.

First few years Charlie saw my XW a few weekends a year. Did camping trips with Ruts kids. XW sister was old enough she moved in with her boyfriend. As time went one it was 2-3 times a year.

Charlie and Ruth never shared a bedroom and it was friends only. It was made clear to everyone. Ruth was always cold to Charlie. We never liked Ruth.

Fast forward to his colon cancer diagnosis. Tis was before the BD and I believe was the trigger.
XW was crying and sad she wasn't close to her dad. XMIL invites her over and trashes Charlie because XW is sad for him. XMIL tells XW that Charlie her dad, was controlling and a bad man. That was why she left him long ago. For hewr survival and she went with a car salesman that XW never talked about except that he was a player.

XW comes home that night saying she will never talk to her father ever again. Countdown to my BD starts then. 4 months later XW leaves.

Me and the girls visited Charlie a few times after XW left . I called several times. Never an attempt from them to reach us. No birthday or Xmas card , nada.

Fast forward to this Friday

We showed up before lunch. Charlie is in bed resting because he was running around the day before shopping. We sat with Ruth. The girls were good and played along with Ruth. Conversation was about Charlie. She talked about him dying. He isn't doing well and the girls need to see him often before he goes.

We have lunch and Charlie gets up, he sees the girls. Tears flowing from his eyes and the girls eyes too. I get chocked up as well.
We talk about the girls and his health. Girls are clearly happy them came to see him. D16 mentions her love for cacti. He grows them and offers her 3 small ones.

She goes upstairs and Charlie, myself and D14 stay downstairs.

Ruth is upstairs with D16. She's says to D16 that when Charlie dies she can come back and take all the plants. She will want then out of the house.
D16 told me this on the drive back. It made her feel sick to her stomach that Ruth considers Charlie gone already and is planning the clean up.

We return upstairs and I see D16 is off.
Then Ruth starts...

"Girls We saw your mom last weekend. Haven't seen her for nearly a year. She was with OM.
They seem so happy ."
D14 and D16 both roll their eyes and motion to me, lets go. I spoke to Ruth before arriving that we are not to talk about OM.

We go into the living room while Charlie lies down for a few minutes. He gets tired fast.

Ruth goes on... " you know, you can call and come here whenever you want. It's not right that it took so long for you to come back."
I guess she doesn't remember our attempts last year and nothing from her.

I got up and motioned the girls to join me to go say goodbye to Charlie.
The girls sat on his bed and held his hand. Said their goodbyes , hugged and kissed him goodbye.

He asked me to stay a moment alone with him.
"Thank you Irish, you can't imagine the joy I feel seeing the girls before I go. You did well with them. They are happy, i feel it. I wish I was half the man you are. I failed my Daughters, you didn't fail yours. Say goodbye to your parents and family. I wish you well"

We left there feeling peace. Saying goodbye was needed. I didn't want the girls to have the regret of not seeing him. We will see how things go in a few weeks we will go back. If he passes then we wish him peace.

today the girls get an email from XW.

Hi my baby girls, I heard you went to see my dad. He loves you so much and was sad he hadn't had any news from you in a long while. You know you can call him whenever you want. Your dad has his number but in case here it is 555-555-5555

about me, I am in a clinic waiting to have my tooth fixed. Its a dead tooth that my insurance won't cover. So it will be expensive. It's a specialist that insurance doesn't cover so $$$$

I hop you both are doing good. D16, you graduate thais year I will be thinking of you like I always do. D14 I hope your medical condition is solved and everything goes back to normal.

I adore you both
Mom


The girls refused to read it.
I will put it in a folder so if they chose to read iut another day it will be there for them

Hope you are all having a good weekend. Warm weather and sunny skies are upon us. Get out and enjoy the day tomorrow. I will


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Irish,

I am very glad that you and the girls went to see their grandfather. It's very sad when a "family member" writes someone off as gone before their time.

Your xw is still looking for attention. Really, who cares are someone getting dental work unless it's something serious especially when it comes to a mother who has been MIA for such a long time. Maybe she's hoping the Easter Bunny will give her a golden egg to pay for the tooth. Maybe, in her own way, she's letting the girls know that she's not going to be able to give them anything for Easter or maybe she's just selfish and wants attention...but the bottom line...your girls are smart not to read this note.

Irish, you are a good father and I'm proud w/the way that you've been handling your situation.


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Irish,
I just have read your last few posts, and when time allows I hope to go back and read your thread. Just from the little I've read, it's obvious what a good man and father you are, and how you've kept the home fires burning for your daughters. I just wanted to take a second and say my hat is off to you. I have so much admiration for a parent who stays, and even more so if it's a man, because sometimes that home making/nesting stuff doesn't come naturally for a man, so it may take extra effort and motivation. Your rewards someday will be great, probably already are, and karma will be kind to you. smile


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Hi Irish xoxoxo

Wow, that Ruth woman is a piece of work, isn't she? So glad you intervened on D16's behalf there. It was good that you brought them and frankly mon ami I think you needed to hear what he had to say to you privately, as one man who has gone through this to another going through it.

Just my take.

Re: the email from eew ... the subtle implication that you wouldn't give the girls the # is not lost on me. She still cannot accept responsibility for her actions here, can she? The BS about the dentist was for your benefit, not the girls. It's as Job has stated. Glad the girls don't want to read it. There is nothing to see there, move it along, as the saying goes.

You've done well to take them. I know it was emotional for all of you but that peace you all felt was also felt by their grandfather, I'm sure.

Good job! xoxoxoxo


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Irish

You did good
Sounds all in all a valuable trip for the girls and saying everyone getting to see and say goodbye to Charlie-a powerful lesson
Im glad Charle was good to the girls and he could see who you are
the amazing father that he never was..what an awesome validation and example to set
Its nice to see that people actually notice your hard work and continued growth and integrity

AS for XW
She seems so weak in her desire to reconnect
with
the words she chooses and the thoughts she conveys to girls
still blames everyone else-like her pain is your fault
she will have to hit bottom hard-and the MLCer will continue to avoiding inner reflection pain and conflict
they want fun
She also seems angry

maybe the New life did not evolve the way she thought
I believe the MLC believes if they create this new life with OP, They will be really Happy
a life free of responsibility and problems

Thats an illusion but it takes a while for them to figure it out
sometimes a long time


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Irish - you ok? What's going on? Miss your updates. Happy Easter xo


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Hi Bttrfly

thanks for checking in with me , happy Easter to you too. xx

Easter shopping was completed last Thursday and I took the day off Friday to go with D16 to finally pick up her Prom dress.

She has been stressing a little bit since the store she picked it out from said they'd call her when it came in and never did. I decided to go there and sort it out.

We arrive and the store is closed. So I asked the neighbor store if they knew the hours of he dress store . He said Friday the do open but later. So I decided to stay in that area of the city with D16 and shop for her shoes. This part of downtin is a Wedding/prom/tux


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
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sorry about that.. lol

to continue

This part of downtown is a Wedding/prom/tux main location of clothing. Store after store for a multiple of street blocks. Shoes, purses, hair and nail salons and many great restaurants.

We decided to eat so I took her to an old style diner. When we walked in she said she loved it. Elvis was everywhere. Decor of the 50's.

After eating it was shoe store after shoe store. Bingo we got them. At the cash i see the purses.. jackpot. match the shoes and we are done.

We head back to the dress store , still closed :-(
So I say, lets go try on a few other dresses in case you might of missed something. We do a few shops and she tries them on. She looks amazing. I am taken back a little. My little girls is growing up . fast. then it hits me. Her mom is no part of this. I shake it off and we continue our day.

I know my daughter when she has her heart on something she holds onto that until the end. We head back to that shop and I pray it to be open. We get there and it is open. Yayyy... Once inside she sees her dress and the look in her eyes glows with joy. I ask the clerk if her size came in. She says, yes they are unpacking the boxes now. 30 mins later she is holding the dress. She tries it on and WOW.

lets just say a few women , well all the women there since i was the only daddy in those stores with his daughter were crying because they saw the tears welt up in my eyes.. It was like the day of my wedding , D16 was 9 at the time. She was a flower girl with D14. I balled my eyes out seeing them in there dresses. So happy that mommy and daddy were getting married. That same feeling rushed through me. Nearly knocked me off my feet.

So we pay for the dress, D16 is glowing , so happy. It Was a great day.

This morning I wake up to anger. Anger with XW. Missing all this .
I know it will pass as it always does. But I want to write to her and tell her that I hate her for what she did to her family, to me.. to the girls.

I'm writing it out here so hopefully that urge will pass.

breath Irish... breath..

hope everyone is having a nice Easter weekend.

Irish .


M51
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I am definitely sure your D looks like a princess in her prom gown. I am so glad you were able to find the shoes and accessories for her special night. Be sure to take plenty of photos. It's not very often that a father gets involved in the prom dress shopping. This was a very special outing for the both of you.

I do understand your anger...but nothing can change your xw's view right now. The best thing is to continue to come here and vent away. Trying to guilt her won't help her, you or your girls. The best revenge is to live well and enjoy life.

Happy Easter to you and your family! Spring is a sign of new beginnings for all.


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When you typed "Elvis was everywhere" I heard that Mojo Nixon and Skid Roper song "Elvis is Everywhere" -- do you know it? gave me a chuckle, as I too love Elvis.

I can only imagine how beautiful your daughter looked in her gown. You are both lucky to have each other, and to share these priceless memories.

I know your anger well and mirror it, especially on Easter, as it was our last family holiday. All the while we were celebrating as a family with our respective parents he was planning to drop the bomb the next day. Today, on this holy day, I feel so much anger. And you know, it's not about calling the ex to give them guilt. I could care less about his guilt. Some days I'm just so angry at what he did to our family, to our son. With few exceptions I have practiced such self-restraint and sometimes my Italian temper just feels like it's ready to explode. I wish I had a punching bag as throwing several punches at a bag would definitely get this anger out of my body.

Irish, I hope you did something physical to get the excess energy out of your body. I hope you went for a vigorous walk or hike, or went to the gym. Venting here helps but the physical act of doing something that causes you to move or sweat is the most helpful. Yard work, anything physical that gets you moving.

Happy Easter to you my friend. Better days are ahead for all of us. xo

Continue venting here.


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Bttrfly, my friend used to date Mojo way back in the day before he met his wife. He's super nice and funny in person.

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^^^^ smile {{{kml}}}

Irish - it occurs to me ... you are Canadian, et vous parlez Francais ... peut-être aimez-vous le hockey?

Je suis une fan des Bruins ... Je serai dévasté si vous êtes fan des Habs ... mais je suppose que je peux vous pardonner wink que pensez-vous de Claude Julien?

Admirez Patrice Bergeron? C'est mon Bruin préféré. Tout cœur, et nous partageons un nom, lol.

I just shut off the Bruins/Senators game. Sigh. The boys from Boston didn't look good in that first half period. I must stop the hockey talk now. I love hockey and baseball, son's two sports.

I stand by what I said earlier mon ami - I know when I'm really angry at exh the one thing that has consistently helped me to feel better is to do something physical ... swimming laps until I'm exhausted, usually. Helps clear my mind. I hope you had a beautiful Easter with the girls. I'm sorry that D16s prom preparations brought up some old emotions but I think that's to be expected. It means you are processing this and is a testament to how much you loved your eew ...

D16 has you, and Thank God she does! She will have amazing memories, as will you. Eew will have regrets. Sad that, but we are all on our own paths here.

Vive les Bruins! HA! xo


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Irish,

Don't contact her about your anger.

Wow what a day. Most dads never get to experience that. Often it is a girly thing done between mother and daughter. It is sad that your W is missing out on such occasions but YOU are getting bonus occasions with your girls.
Best wishes


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Hi guys
I didn't contact her. I kept it in and took it out on the hiking trails around my house.

No news from her since with the exception of today.

Got a call from the SQ . Provincial police in my area. Looking for my ex. Well someone with the same name. Weird thing is they called my personal cell.

I asked them if she in trouble. They said no. They need to question her about someone she knows. They told me his name and it wasn't OM. A name I didn't recognize.

I gave them the numbers I had to reach her.

Later that day. I get a text from XW.
Hi, they are looking for another ( first name , last name) it wasn't me.

So today it's makeover day. Me and D14. My hair had gotten long. It gets waves and curls. My D14 wants a purple tint.

Yes Bttrfly. I am In Quebec. Montreal Habs fan all the way.
This area has a huge Irish population.

Hope you all well. I'll keep my distance from XW and concentrate on my girls .

Grass has turned green and the snow is all melted , summer time is on its way.
:-)


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Habs! Je suis très désolé! wink

I'm glad you took to the hills. Good job!

Re: the SQ call - weird, eh?

Hope the makeover goes well! Enjoy the nice weather smile


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Lol yes Habs
After last nights game, I'm getting nervous.

I was confused with the call. I can't and won't dwell on it. She's an adult and responsible for her own choices. As long as she doesn't bring any trouble to the house I'm fine.


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
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Glad the police didn't want her- That must have been a weird moment because you never know what kind of trouble the MLCER can create-

Glad you also were able to let the anger go
It doesn't pay to tell them anything-they can't hear and they can turn any situation back on us

Purple tint-sound fun-
maybe you can get one 2?


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when you said confused with the call i thought, "did the refs make another bad call?"

Claude's a great coach, they will be fine. I haven't watched hockey all that much since exh left - that's something we would do together and it's been kind of sad for me to watch it, but i'm slowly coming back.

Thank you for not holding my Bruins love against me, lol!

Well, relieved eew isn't in trouble with the law. She has enough on her plate, I'm sure, without added stress.

How'd the makeover go? Did you get an Elvis 'do? wink


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Hi Peace and bttrfly.. no purple tint for me but my D14 will stop all the boys in the school hallway tomorrow. She looks amazing.

Me I went for the simple trim but kept some length as I missed having wavy hair.

I also planned out D16 June appointments there. Hair, nails and makeup for prom. She has quite long hair as it is but wants to add some extensions for more length and volume.

so next step is to have the dressed altered and we will be all set.

My hats go off to all you LBS women raising kids alone. It's not an easy job.. but I love it and it's so rewarding with the smiles my girls give me.

I can;'t lie. i enjoy the praise I get in those salons. The women there go gaga for me because they see how involved I am. The owner knows me before I had kids. She always said I gave birth to the girls because they were always so close to me.

I guess I didn't see it that way when XW was here. But as time goes on I see more clearly.

hope you are all well.

Irish


M51
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Originally Posted By: bttrfly
when you said confused with the call i thought, "did the refs make another bad call?"


Lol, I thought the same thing.

Hi Irish, haven't stopped by in awhile but I follow. I just wanted to pop in and say kudos to you. Your Ds are lucky to have you. You do so much most men wouldn't, and are a great example for us. its rewarding now and will be even more so for them in the future!

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lol Kyh - hockey fans are all alike, right? when it's on the brain the whole conversation must refer to hockey, lol.
Well Irish, you KNOW you're amazing!

xoxoxo


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Hi KYH thanks for your kind words :-)
I am lucky to have them.

Bttrfly... Bttrfly ... Bttrfly
I hope you are cheering for the Habs tonight. 3rd period is about to start. We will be up 3-2 in the Series's . I believe Boston is on its way out tomorrow :-)

On theXW front. She has transferred out of town.
She had moved about 40 minutes away on a good no traffic day.
4 towns over
Her job was still in our town. Girls walked in front of her office daily when walking to and from school. They were nervous she'd run out and grab them

So I get a message .

I transferred . Out of there and out of your lives

In my mind I say. Good for her . Lol dream came true for her .
New life.

At least the girls will have less stress walking around.

Go Habs go


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
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wow didn't expect hockey talk on here. sadly my team never made the playoffs lol

hockey a pleasant distraction from the tough times


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:-( Montréal lost :-(


M51
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^^^^Irish my dear, you don't think that the hockey gods maybe read that crack about Boston losing today and responded in kind???

Just. Saying.

-----
I'm glad the girls will now be able to walk by the building eew used to work in without any anxiety. It should make things easier, especially for D14, next year when her older sister is at Jr. College. I neglected to say this before Irish, but I'm so proud of D16 for wanting to major in psychology to help others not have to go through this. She's a very special young lady!

(Go Rangers!) grin laugh wink


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oh and for the record, it's like that old expression goes: "I cheer for the Bruins and any team that beats Montreal!"
the hockey equivalent of "I support two teams: The Red Sox and whoever beats the Yankees!"

Hey - I'm nothing if not loyal!!!!

Any news on the girls' grandfather? how's he doing? You, btw, are handling all this with your usual élan and forbearance. Good job! Show the rest of us how it's done!


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^^ I know. Your team and my team will be golfing while some other team gets the glory this year!


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Yes maybe next year :-(

As long as Toronto didn't get further than Montreal, all is good.

So, interesting events today.
I finally got around to setting up new accounts for the girls .
Closed their old accounts in which XW could deposit money into them but couldn't take any out . Nothing was ever added by her.

So I decided to have their education savings Plans that I set up for them as babies changed as well. These were the accounts that XW tried to empty out shortly after BD. She has no access to do so and was blocked.

Only issue is . For tax purposes I had put one in my name and the other in her name. She doesn't benefit from it since she has yet to put a dime in it.

I contact the person who handles these transfers. She says," no problem, I will draft up the documents to have XW sign over the transfer to you for D14. This way you have authority to transfer it to another financial institution."

I sent over the seperation agreement stating that this was also decided in the courts that I, and only I will have power to attorney to do so.

It was clear. I added XW as cc to the message. She is aware that this was going to happen.

About an hour later. My bank representative emails me.

"We seem to have a problem, you ex wife called me and says that she never saw that agreement of divorce that I sent. Never gave up custody. That the document must be a fake"

It took me a while to figure out what was she talking about. Maybe I sent the wrong file . So I reviewed it. It was clearly the final judgement for divorce and custody.
Stamped in the court of law. Section 15 states that XW has given up custody . Section 20 , that I will be taking over the power of attorney of the girls education fund and the girls will be sole owners of this money at 18.

Signed by her and her lawyer.


So clearly a lost case if she can't even remember her seperation from me.

That might explain her email to me about a month or so ago. Saying that we as a couple need to work together for the best for the girls. Does she not remember we are divorced?? It's odd indeed


But what isn't in MLC land


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Saying that we as a couple need to work together for the best for the girls. Does she not remember we are divorced?? It's odd indeed

could she be implying that you work together to still be parents although you're apart. Not necessarily that she can't remember?


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Hi Irish, glad to hear you and the girls are doing well. Yes I agree it's an odd comment from her.

It would have been perfectly accurate to say "we as parents" or even "we as a former couple" - but maybe a little foggy thinking going on there - this all happened but me and Irish are still a partnership. Well yes you are, but only in a parental sense now..

It must have been a bit galling to read that statement from her, when she bailed out of the R, chose to bring OM into the mix and then tells the girls they need to get over it and respect the new situation...arghh..

Anyway, that's her life and her sandpit and I would leave her to it...I'm always heart warmed to read of your relationship with your girls and I would say - just keep on being awesome Irish!

smile


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Hi Irish,
Next year for sure! Son wanted a B's / Habs series. Those are always great! This year would have been even more piquant because of Claude.

Oh well. Think of all the trash talking we won't get to engage in, lol!!!

I have a different take on your recent developments. I think she knew exactly what she was doing but just wanted to make things more difficult and also make herself look like a victim. It seems really important to eew that people view her as the victim here.

Were you able to straighten it all out?

Remember something mon ami: some people feel that any attention, even negative attention, is worth having. By calling and lying to the bank personnel she ensured you'd be thinking about her for the rest of that day. Negative attention is still attention.

As Sotto said, not your monkeys, not your circus, doll! Carry on with your bad self xoxoxo


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Hi Sj
Couple in French is couple. Just to recap a month or so ago she was messaging me as a couple, how we should of did this and that. How she missed talking to me etc . It must of got too hard for her so she reverted to not remembering anything and being a victim. Her dad as well was more tired from his cancer and she had just visited him so it might of put her back in the fog.

Hi Sotto
Yes it's her monkey show but this is the girls education fund. I need to clear it up and get her legally off the documents .
As for my daughters they got a message from her that day. I giess she remembered she had kids

It was an empty message . " miss you girls, call me so I can hear your voices, you know how to reach me."

Hi Bttrfly
A bruins / Habs show down would of been great.

As for the funds. The bank got back to me and are preparing the documents . No need for XW to sign since it's all clear in the divorce agreement.

I think that was it. Last tie to XW

Let's just get past Mother's Day and I will start to enjoy the spring and summer months


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hi {{{{{{{Irish}}}}}}} hugs because you need them.
The severing of the final tie can bring up a lot of feelings for sure. You're right that Mother's Day is something to get through, for all of you.

Better days are coming my friend! Courage, mon brave!!!!
xoxoxo


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Irish

I think they live in a time warp
Im not sure if they realize time has passed
kids have grown up ect

Best to continue doing everything you are doing
The MLCer will have to catch up to the rest of us if they can
its not longer our responsibility to spoon feed them

best
peace


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Irish,

Peace is correct in her statement that they live in a time warp. Maybe she forgot she's divorced or maybe she's in denial, but either way...it's her circus to attend and figure out what she wants to do.

I'm glad the financial institution is working w/you on transferring the funds for your daughters to a new account. You will feel much better knowing that she can't get any where near them, no matter what.

I do you that you and your daughters have something special planned for the weekend.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Hi bttrfly :-)

yes Peace and Job, I truly believe as well that their minds are so warped that time as we know it doesn't exist.

This weekend we tackled the yard. I had a long to-do list, so long that we were just waiting for he perfect weather to start it. Today was that day. Start the pool. Replace the gazebo door, flush the hot tub and clean out my water garden. I like to get all this done by may 10, this way we enjoy the summer.

The door needed some TLC. I decided to go to the hardware store to pick up new hinges. My house is in front of a huge park. The street circles around it and it brings you to a main road that when driving on it you see my house.

To my surprise I get to the stop sign. Who did I see at the opposite intersection. My X MIL and her boy friend. I look into their car and X mil slumps down trying to hide.. lol .. I have a jeep so I clearly see inside the car since it is much lower. Her boyfriend looks at me with a lost look... I continue on my way to the store.

Now OK, it's a public road. Thing is, They know no one in my town or even the next 2 towns over. They live 45 mins away on a good traffic day. So clearly they are on a mission to see us from a far. Poor her. Maybe she is starting to feel the consequences of abandoning her grand children. really not my loss. I don't miss that woman.

Tomorrow I travel for business. Staying in one of the oldest hotels in Quebec city, Alfred Hitchcock used this hotel in 1953 to film his movie "I confess" . Its a beauty.

So the countdown to mothers day start tomorrow. May 9 is the day and I will celebrate it. With my girls and my own mom.

have a good Sunday everyone.


M51
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Hi Irish smile
How sad to have put oneself in a position where one can only see one's grandchildren from afar.

Did you get everything done that you wanted to accomplish? My mom's birthday is Monday, then of course mother's day right after. Hope you have safe travels and a good business trip, Irish. xoxoxo


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Irish, thanks for giving us strength. I look to you as inspiration that we can get to a point where their batchitcrazy doesn't affect us so much.

I too have issues with my MIL, mainly because she is an enabler and not a mother. Now, my FIL and the step-MIL are different and admit that they think the W is crazy at the moment.

You and your girls are in my prayers daily.


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Hi Irish,

I have been meaning to comment sooner. I have been dealing with a lot of the same memory issues that you have. I swear at times that my ex forgets we are divorced. She somehow feels that my income is still ours to decide how is is spent. She is terrible with money as it is and cannot comprehend when some is too expensive. So then when she can't afford to make her share on payments for daughters college stuff she looks to me to bail her out. I have started to push back on this, let her know how her decisions have affected us all and that she has to make choices going forward to fix this. Within a day or so its like these conversations never take place.

I am starting to wonder about this loss of memory. Is it a result of the MLC or a skill they develop to not face the results of their actions. I am starting to lean towards the later.

I would not loose sleep over this Irish. I don't believe the behavior will ever correct itself without a lot of help. Neither of our exs are getting that help so not much we can do.

Keep being the father you are to your daughters. I can tell you, based on my experience with my daughters that it will pay off for you. They will recognize that this person is not the mother they knew. They may have a relationship with her, but will always seek you out for advise and support. You can take comfort that they will realize that you are their rock. A role their mother can no longer full fill.


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Originally Posted By: bttrfly

My mom's birthday is Monday, then of course mother's day right after.


Hi bttrfly xx
I think i got the dates wrong. Mothers day is next weekend, so oh joy, another week of crazy.

And it is sad that my girls lost not only their mother but the grandparents as well. Thank god for my parents filling that void they have.

Originally Posted By: SBJ

You and your girls are in my prayers daily.


Hi SBJ , thank you so much for this. I too pray for you and so many others here. I believe we have all found this place so we can save ourselves and our children.

Originally Posted By: Lifes Twists

I am starting to wonder about this loss of memory. Is it a result of the MLC or a skill they develop to not face the results of their actions. I am starting to lean towards the later.

I would not loose sleep over this Irish. I don't believe the behavior will ever correct itself without a lot of help. Neither of our exs are getting that help so not much we can do.


Hi LT
I truly think it is a MLC trait. A defense mechanism that protects them from seeing the entire picture. I doubt they are completely oblivious to it. The mind protects itself from trauma. People have had car accidents and couldn't remember a thing.

I do believe that after time they get these memories back. In small doses so they can digest it. Then it depends on the core person. Do they confront it and talk about it... or pretend it never happened

Now my XW has always pretended things didn't happen and swept them under the rug. She would go to bed angry and wake up the next day all happy. Not wanting to talk about it. To me that is not healthy and I can see her doing that dance now. Nothing she did is wrong, lets just get over it and move on.

It won't work for me anymore and nor for the girls this time. That game has run its course.

I'm curious to know how many MLC'r are like that. Not dealing with issues and letting them slide away.



Update.. well I won a local contest to see some Elvis impersonators. My D16 loves the King so I bought a few tickets for my parents and D14. The show was amazing. What I did to win was send a video of me and the girls singing . The first Elvis mentioned it to the crowd and had us stand up for applause. lol they girls loved the spotlight and it made their night. yaaaa baby

Mothers day a week away.. weather is finally drying up. Thinking of taking a drive south to the Adirondacks next week.. I miss that area..


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
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Nice one Irish!

RE the memory thing. Yes, it is a MLC thing. It can get really bad when they are in the depths of it, but it does get better as time goes by. So with their memory being like swiss cheese, it is prudent NOT to rely on them. I know she left both girls to you, but I make swaps pretty much every other day and I learned to NOT rely on her for ANYTHING so I was always prepared to handle any and every contingency. I still am, but luckily the memory thing improved heaps. I still rely on me only and do not trust her.

Thumbs up for us LBS dads. laugh

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I remember reading AmyC's threads and in her later posts she was amazed at how she was either remembering or being reminded of things that she had not remembered during her MLC. They might had been things that she had blocked out on purpose due to the amount of damage that it had done.

MWD has also written that we, as the LBS, will be the only one left with true memories to help our MLC'er with their memory should they ever return. That sounds totally crazy, but makes sense.


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Hi Vapo. Yes, thumbs up for us LBS dads. Funny how you said that, you cant trust her for anything. It's like they just f=drop the skill they learnt as parents or pick up the skill of pretending to be useless.

Hi SBJ, the memory thing is crazy. I'm sure if I started telling my XW (if I had the chance to) the things she has done , she will snap and deny it all. Her quarter life crises over 10 years ago , when she left for a few months only. she didn't remember anything. Even around BD I said she was repeating the same thing she did. She denied it. Said it never happened. Those shark eyes were present and the smirk of getting away with everything as well.

So its been nearly 2 weeks I signed the documents to have power over my daughters savings plans for school. They called XW to come sign them as well as stated in the divorce agreement. She has yet to show up. So my next step will be to go back to court to have the judge remove any decision making about the girls. This will mean I will no longer need her permission to travel , register the girls for school or anything related to their lives . Once they are 18 they can sign any documents themselves.

Sad feeling about it but I think its necessary. No news from her either except she forwarded an email from the school that she received. She sent it without adding any comments or message. I also received it from the school so there was no need to forward it over. I guess she felt helpful.


hope you are all well.
Irish


M51
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BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
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Originally Posted By: Lifes Twists

I am starting to wonder about this loss of memory. Is it a result of the MLC or a skill they develop to not face the results of their actions. I am starting to lean towards the later.

It can be both. I see in my W genuine memory loss, she cannot keep up with herself sometimes. One time she left our kitchen in the middle of making dinner to go pick up some antibiotics (salmon still frying in the pan).

I remember reading Wonka's stuff. She said sometimes just getting through the day was unbearably hard for her. With everything bouncing around in a MLC brain, some details are going to get lost.

Originally Posted By: Irish M

I truly think it is a MLC trait. A defense mechanism that protects them from seeing the entire picture. I doubt they are completely oblivious to it. The mind protects itself from trauma. People have had car accidents and couldn't remember a thing.

I do believe that after time they get these memories back. In small doses so they can digest it. Then it depends on the core person. Do they confront it and talk about it... or pretend it never happened

Yowza - did you hit the nail on the head there, Irish. That to me also describes MLC in full. They are projecting their pain onto the LBS as a defense mechanism from looking inward. It's too painful inside to look.


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Hi Brubeck

its because of this site and friends like you that have enlightened me on the meaning of MLC. So happy not to blame myself and I learned from the beginning to protect myself and my kids. So far so good.

I want to wish all the LBS moms out there a special happy mothers day. To all the dads that fill those shoes while our MLC wives or XW's dance in lalaland.. you are amazing moms too.



Ohh. forgot to mention.. XW was drove by the house yesterday. I guess she needs to see if I cut the lawn or something. lol
I didn't wave and not sure if she saw that I saw her.. If she wants to come by.. well she knows how to ring a door bell.

hope you all spend that day with your kids. Its all about them

Irish


M51
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Irish, you are an awesome example of a dad who steps up when the mom checks out. I'm still praying for your miracle.


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Interesting that XW drove by

There was a thread I think his name was happy again
a recovered MLC who posted his story here somewhere

I think he said he used to drive by the kids school and watch for his kids
but could not contact them

I read this a while ago so dont quote me
happy Mothers day to you as well for being an amazing MOM/Dad


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Hi Irish,
Thank you for giving me hope that there are men in this world who are the real deal. That belief took a bad hit a few years ago!

I hope you enjoy mother's day with your mom and the girls. It's a day to honor those who cherish and nurture others selflessly - regardless of gender, so this is your day too!

Re: eww, you knew something would happen around mother's day - again, she's modeling her mother who just a few weeks back was doing something similar, right? Again I say that it's sad to put yourself on the outside looking in on your beautiful family. Compassion doesn't mean you have to make yourself their victim, however, as you well know. You've been through it and are hopefully on the other side xoxoxo


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Irish,

the most important question at this point in time is, has the grass benn cut?

V

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^^^^ well, yes, Vapo has a great point: did you mow the lawn? do we have photographic proof? preferably with a snowy owl inspecting the work?
wink


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Hi guys
Lol yes the grass is cut and weeded lol

Peace , vapo, Bttrfly and Gordie , it didn't end with just a drive by.

So Mother's Day didn't go without my MLcr popping out of her hole . D14 said that her mom was nuts

The message she and D16 were the same.

"Peakaboo girls . It's Mother's Day and I am thinking of you both. Love lots , remember I will always put you first"

Well. Peakaboo ?? Guess when they say the MLCr pops out of her hole now and again they really mean it

Besides that , we had an amazing day with my mom and spoiled her like crazy.

Have a great week. I'm travelling again for 3 days then taking 6 days off to finish summer preparation and spend some quality time with the girls

As for a snowy owl pic, I'd love to share.


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
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Hi Irish, glad you and the girls had a nice day with your Mum :-)

Wow - funny message from your XW. I can't imagine what it must be like to have Mother's Day and not be in touch with your own kids...

I guess she was inviting them to contact her and wish her a happy day. But again with the Peekaboo and the trite 'always put you first' statements - it isn't going to really cut it...

I'm sad for her and for your girls - though they have a great Dad I think..

I hope in time she may dig deep and do the work that would be needed to reconnect with them.

Have a good week Irish :-)


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Have to love that MLCrs approach sometimes .... that "put you first" line must have had a wicked eyeroll reaction at the least I would imagine.

Well Irish you did manage to get through this one .. I would guess she will simmer on this one today, the day after as the "What did you do for Mothers Day" stories float about the streets, I know mine would always pop out a bit during such times, aswell as any 3 day weekends that she did not have our son.

You handle things so well... cept that lawn as I am certain you missed a spot ... lol.


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safe travels my friend. i would love to see your snowy owls photos - trade ya for my eagle photos!!!

i can't even imagine what prompted that message. Does she even believe it? How bizarre. I think all the MLCers are in a fog.

The girls seem to be doing very well. Glad you spoiled your mom!!! xoxoxo wish i had a vacation coming soon! that two days off wasn't nearly long enough! enjoy!! you deserve it!


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Happy Tuesday everyone. I had a horrible sleep last night. Yup, you guess it messages from my XW.

She put it in point form.

-1- what do I need to do to get the girls talking to me?
-2- I know I moved away and also transferred my job further away.. I dodnthat fir the girls. I felt like they needed me gone. It was for them.
-3- me and the girls were so close. They stole from me and I screamed at them. That is why we aren't seeing each other.
-4- I have so much to ask them and tell them. 2 years has been a long time.
-5- they won't forgive me. I guess things will remain like this.
-6- do you forgive me Irish?

You can say I read it over and over. I'll answer probably tonight after my day of meetings.

All I can see is the blaming of the girls is still strong. She hasn't looked at herself yet.

As for me forgiving her. I think I'm past that stage. What's to forgive. Her half effort of apologizing and still blaming everyone. I'm just at a point where I don't care.

Irish


M51
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Forgiveness is for you buddy, not so much for her. Forgiving will set you free. You can't force it, you will feel when you are ready to forgive and let divine compassion fill your heart where anger and resentment festered.

You ROCK buddy...

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Might wait a day or two to reply
your mind will be clearer
think about this for a moment-

IN your Opinion-
and knowing what your XW Is currently capable of as she is today-

What do you think your XW needs to do to get the girls to be willing to talk to her?
Is it a possibility of this happening the way she is now?

Maybe take a few days to think about this
Talk to the girls if its appropriate

You always do a good job replying to her
kind, cordial, honest and Clear and to the point
if you think there is a chance of reconciliation for her and girls
maybe make a road map for her to follow-easy like for a child
thats your gift to her

If she can't follow through
she will have to wait until next time she checks in

In reality though, the mlc is never the same unless they get serious help
which she does not seem like she is doing-
and the relationship with her and the girls will be different and maybe a very distant disconnected relationship

I think her moving away to help the girls is also another MLC response
my xh did and said that as well


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Hi Irish,

I will drop some of my thoughts when I read this. Firstly wow it must be hard to continually be drawn back to the start of her cycling. Anyway here are my thoughts:
1. You need to reconnect with them. Only you can figure out how to do that. They have been hurt and are not in a position to be receptive to reconnecting right now. Those barriers took time to be put in place and will require time and effort on your part to enable the girls lower them.enough to consider.
reflect upon what you are willing and able to do. If it is not a lot it will not work.
2. You choose to move away just as you choose to leave. The girls had no part in either decision. Maybe you chose believing iat was best for them, but it remains a decision taken alone.
3. All children do stuff that infuriates a parent. That is an incident and does not define the relationship. It is a series of behaviors and decisionsthat determine a R. Blaming the girls will not help anything and will definitely not help reconnect.

4. oYou have missed many important moments where a mothers presence would have benefited them. I am sure you have good things to add to their lives. Two years is a long time. That gap cannot be closed quickly.

5 change is the only constant there truly is. Change is possible. A defeatist attitude will only hinder that happening.You need to be willing to try even though seems improbable.

6 I forgive you

I don't have time to elaborate more, but in my replies the emphasis was on pushing it back to her.

I still see positives and liked she asked if you forgave her. But she needs to walk the walk instead of talking the talk. I am not sure she realises that yet

Best wishes


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Hugs {{{{Irish}}}}}

I have some thoughts but will save then for the new thread you need to start xoxoxoxo


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