Newbie, need help with WAW! (Thread 2)

[MoveFrwd]

This is good advice and I hesitate to say "but"....but....she is quite effectively cut off from me aside from direct emails between us. Any mutual friends we had she is not talking to. I have not been talking to her family as part of my DB, so she won't be hearing/seeing my changes or actions via them, either. I'm sure MIL would be happy to hear from me from time to time, but aside from asking for computer help earlier in the week MIL has been giving me my space.

To that, I say 'so'? If she is interested, she will look. But your changes arent going to be what makes her look. Thats up to her. I think about it like this: pretend the two of you are talking a walk, but she is three steps ahead of you. No matter how fast yu go, she will mirror that or speed up. If you stop, there is nothing you can do or say to get her to turn around; she will have to decide that for herself. But, if she DOES turn around, THATS when your change and growth matters and will entice her to come back.

Stop fixating on getting her attention now; you cant. No matter how long she spends walking away from you, if you are still there standing when she turns around, then you have a chance.

Yes, I am fearful that her busy schedule and potential move will eliminate any possible future. She will want to have mediation complete before she leaves for her long work trip this summer. And I feel that once she is done with that and ends up moving, that will really be the end of it.

I can see myself a year from now showing up on her doorstep only to find she has moved on and is over me.

So, yes, there is fear of that. I am also having trouble living in our house alone. I don't think I can do it much longer. We have so many memories there, it's very painful to be there.

Like I said above, she has to be the one to decide to turn around. Chasing after her wont help.

I wish I was handling this better or that I was as strong as you guys.

As information, I went to see the Avengers II in a thetaer by myself shortly after my separation and sobbed. I used to take 15 minutes once or twice a day while at work to go into the bathroom to compose myself.

Nobody is strong at the stage you are in. Its the same as lifting weights; you cant lift XXX pounds until you develop the muscles to be able to do it. Thats what you are doing now.

[180Man]

Kaizen,

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I know I haven't always been good at listening to what you've said because it was hard to hear, but I appreciate it.

My changes aren't going to be what makes her look. But if she does look, then that's when my change and growth matters. Okay. It helped me to kind of type what you said again and hear it in my mind. The way you painted that picture helped me a lot when I read it earlier today.

Thanks for sharing your Avengers experience. I guess it's easy to feel like I'm all alone going through this. This helps. Wish we could have a beer sometime.

I finally gave in an told another friend who I have known for maybe 17 years or so. He pointed out to me that Jesus talks about forgiveness and that if you withhold it from someone, God won't be able to forgive you for your own problems. I had never seen that before and it was somewhat striking to think about. I think I should forgive her and need to tell her face to face at some point. Idk when, I haven't even really come to terms with the idea yet. I have wanted to forgive her since very early on, but felt that the road to forgiveness was one we had to go down together, via counseling and talking and whatnot. And when she BD, I guess I figured forgiveness wasn't going to happen until she came back to the table.

So this is something I need to think about now that he brought the idea to my attention.

Had a DB coaching session tonight. Not much to go on, really. She suggested I not reply to my wife's email until after I talk to a lawyer and my pastor. She agreed that my wife is rushing this in order to have it done before she deploys this summer. And she agrees that my wife seems to have her mind set on this right now and there's not much I can do to change that right now. Kind of a depressing call, actually, but I guess you guys have been telling me this already.

[KevinIn]

Kaizen - Great info in your reply. I've saved this as one of my favorites.

I wish I was handling this better or that I was as strong as you guys.

As information, I went to see the Avengers II in a thetaer by myself shortly after my separation and sobbed. I used to take 15 minutes once or twice a day while at work to go into the bathroom to compose myself.

Nobody is strong at the stage you are in. Its the same as lifting weights; you cant lift XXX pounds until you develop the muscles to be able to do it. Thats what you are doing now.

A few weeks after BD#1, I went to see the new Star Wars. It was my first non-kids movie in a movie theater in several years, and I was super pumped about it. Sadly, i sobbed through most of it and didn't really enjoy it.

I still step away from my desk each afternoon for a 20 minute break to refocus. During this time, i do a Headspace session. If you don't have the Headspace app, i highly recommend it.

[doodler]

180Man,

I've written a song for you to sing to you wife. I think it'll make everything good again.

Actually, I'm lying. I totally ripped-off the song from KC and the Sunshine Band. The song is "I'm Your Boogie Man" but I replaced boogie man with 180Man. Every time I see your user name, I think of that song. So now, I'm hoping to plant the song in everyone else's head as well. Apparently I enjoy being evil.

----------------

"I'm Your 180Man"

I'm your 180Man, that's what I am
I'm here to do whatever I can
Be it early morning, late afternoon
Or at midnight. It's never too soon

To want to please you, to want to keep you
To want to do it all, all for you
I want to be your, be your rubber ball
I want to be the boy you love most of all, oh yeah

I'm your 180Man, I'm your 180Man
Turn me on
I'm your 180Man, I'm your 180Man
I'll do what you want

I'm your 180Man, I'm your 180Man
Turn me on
I'm your 180Man, I'm your 180Man
I'll do what you want

I'm your 180Man, that's what I am
I'm here to do whatever I can
Be it early morning, late afternoon
Or at midnight, oh it's never too soon

To want to take you, to want to hold you
I want to give my all, all to you
And I want you to completely understand
Wherever I'm at and wherever I am, oh yeah

I'm your 180Man, I'm your 180Man
Turn me on
I'm your 180Man, I'm your 180Man
I'll do what you want

I'm your 180Man, I'm your 180Man
Turn me on
I'm your 180Man, I'm your 180Man
I'll do what you want

[MoveFrwd]

My changes aren't going to be what makes her look. But if she does look, then that's when my change and growth matters.

Basically yes. But, here's the awesome part. Even if she is foolish enough to never actually turn around, youve already grown and changed anyway and become the 180Man you want to be. So you know your life will be awesome even if she never actually does turn round.

I think I should forgive her and need to tell her face to face at some point.

To me, forgiveness is what matters; telling her doesnt. Telling her only serves to try to manipulate her into doing or feeling something, I think. You forgive for YOU; not for her.

[180Man]

Doodler -- thanks for the song. Made me laugh the other day when I read it. Not sure how well that'd go over with her!

Kaizen -- thanks for the continued support and advice. I hope I can follow through and do the right things.

--------------------

Time for some blogging I guess. I just hung up on my mother. I had been sitting with the dog on the dog's bed crying. I was trying to continue putting my W's stuff in boxes but I just couldn't handle it. I called my mother and asked if she would come down to help me pack up some of this stuff next weekend. She's about three hours north of here. It was a big imposition to her but she begrudgingly agreed to Friday/Saturday. I started updating her on some things that happened today and my mother turned it around to be about HER! This is not the first time she has done this.

Essentially my mother said that if my W and I ever get back together my W owes her an apology for a couple of things. And I'm like...really? My mother feels wronged because in her view my W and I did not come up to help her enough with my sick father for the last year and a half. We were both very busy with work and it's easily six hours of driving with no traffic. Any time we went up there to help my mother always complained that we weren't doing enough. Maybe. But we were doing what we could with the time we had and with us both in the military it's no cake walk. It wasn't enough for her and eventually it wore on us to try to help her and be told it wasn't good enough. So we slowly stopped going. My mother is still upset about it. I understand why, but I've also tried to explain to her how we felt at the time. Almost every time I talk to her on the phone now it comes up and I have to explain again. She can be a very difficult woman. I believe growing up with her always yelling made me avoid any type of fighting with my W. My W and I fought once in a while, but not often. I was usually always the one to calm down first and initiate an apology. I read recently that couples who fight all the time will likely have issues and, likewise, couples who rarely fight will also have issues. Apparently there is some happy medium...

I went to work briefly this morning, then attended church online (as to not run into my W...although I'm wondering if it's time to stop this and just go), then I met my aunt for brunch. My W and I have a little tradition with her...every couple of months we have brunch. Well, my aunt had been worried about us and emailed us both several weeks ago, I told her we were just going through a hard time. I asked her Friday if she had time for brunch and she did. I told her everything that's going on and of course she was supportive. She gave me the very generic advice of...well...you guys need to go work on yourselves and if your paths cross again great, if not, you'll both be okay too. Yeah...I know. She's just trying to be helpful, I know.

I got home and I had a moment of weakness. I called my MIL to ask if her computer issue from last week had been fixed and to ask about her husband's (my W's step-father) stroke. Computer issue still hasn't been fixed and husband's stroke is still pretty bad. I didn't say anything about my W until MIL brought it up. I asked if my W was still not talking to her. I guess they are somewhat talking again. My W got a new phone number, apparently. I had kind of heard this but wasn't 100% sure. Meanwhile I'm still paying for her old number/phone to be on. Would be nice if she told me she wasn't going to be using it anymore. Sounds like my W is trying hard to move to Europe, probably in the summer sometime. It was nothing I didn't really already know. My MIL told me that I should call her (MIL) once in a while even though she knows I have no obligation to do so. She started to tear up right as we got off the phone.

That's when I started trying to pack some more of my W's stuff into boxes. I called my best friend and he tried to talk some sense into me. His analogy is...If someone is feeding you pickles and you hate pickles, you're really not going to like them if someone keeps shoving them in your face. If you hate pickles and you don't eat any for a while...maybe after a while you might be willing to try them again. In other words, I need to work on me. I need to let her work on her and continue not to bug her. And maybe...after she deploys and after she moves to Europe...maybe we can start over. And maybe not. Just re-reading that sentence and thinking about how crazy it sounds makes me think this is a total lost cause. and after she moves to Europe

What the fùck am I thinking?! How am I going to start fresh with her in EUROPE?!#$%@#^

I guess it's nothing you guys haven't already told me. Today is just fùcking shítty. There's another church service in an hour...I'm wondering if maybe I should drive down there and actually attend. Idk...I've already heard the message today, not sure what good it would do me. Meeting with the pastor tomorrow afternoon. But maybe I should go anyways. IDK.

This continues to suck. Today is my one "off" day from the gym and now is when I really need that pickup the most. Thanks for listening.

sigh

[leahsue]

Hi 180,
It all just seems so overwhelming, doesn't it? I personally think you are still trying to look back and see if anyone is watching, which means none of the GAL, changes you are trying to make are about you. That is not going to work. LET IT GO. I am in no position to sound judgemental, bc I feel like all I do is try to let go, but it's so very, very hard.
And I understand about the off days at the gym. I could have gone to OTF today, but I chose to sit out by the pool and drink wine. Hey, it's ok. We'll pick it back up tomorrow.

[180Man]

Leahsue, yeah it is overwhelming. I think you've kind of called me out on some of this and rightfully so. At times I feel I am doing this for me. At other times I feel I am doing it to fix our marriage. I am going to see our pastor tomorrow for me, but deep down I kind of hope he gives me something positive to hang on to with respect to my W and marriage. If I let my mind wander too much, I could start imagining that my W has already met with the pastor and tomorrow he will assure me that there is hope because he has talked to both of us. This is not a healthy thought. I need to remind myself that I'm going for me. FOR ME.

"I don't need her, but I want her."

It's very hard to let go, but I identify with drinking wine and sitting by the pool! I haven't really been drinking during the week lately, but when my "off" day comes (today) it's very easy to go have a few beers with the neighbor! Not sure if this is good or bad. Maybe it doesn't have to be either. Maybe it just is.

I decided I wanted to go to the church service tonight but I decided just a little bit too late to get there in time and find parking. So I took the dog to the beach instead. I called a friend of mine and we talked for over an hour. We talked about God a lot and at the end of the conversation I really felt a lot better. It was strange. I went from crying on the dog's bed to...feeling okay.

I wrote some things down that he said, I'll share them here because I think they are very valuable and may help more than just me:

"Practice God's love for her: Giving and not expecting anything in return. 'Agape' love. I love you because I choose to love you."

"Pray FOR her, not just for your marriage. Because she needs to find her own way and that is a prerequisite to anything that might occur between the two of you."

"As you pray for her, God will nudge you in directions that make you more sensitive to her situation."

Don't know if that will help anyone else in the future, but it helped me. I feel okay again tonight. Today was not a great day, but it could have been worse. I have a roof over my head, I have money in the bank, I have a reliable car, I have neighbors who feed me when I come over and friends who spend their time trying to help me. I have a spouse who still cares for me, despite our troubles otherwise. I have a pastor who will spend time with me. I have an internet forum of strangers willing to lend their thoughts and advice. There is a lot to be thankful for and it's hard to see sometimes.

Thank you.

[LITB]

Hey 180,

How did your meeting go with your Pastor?

Today was not a great day, but it could have been worse. I have a roof over my head, I have money in the bank, I have a reliable car, I have neighbors who feed me when I come over and friends who spend their time trying to help me. I have a spouse who still cares for me, despite our troubles otherwise. I have a pastor who will spend time with me. I have an internet forum of strangers willing to lend their thoughts and advice. There is a lot to be thankful for and it's hard to see sometimes.

I like this. It is important to focus on the positives in our lives. I believe what we focus on is what manifest in our hearts. Good on you for seeing the silver lining.

[180Man]

Hey 180,

How did your meeting go with your Pastor?

I like this. It is important to focus on the positives in our lives. I believe what we focus on is what manifest in our hearts. Good on you for seeing the silver lining.

LITB, thanks for checking in. Meeting with my Pastor was good. Sounds like he's heard stories like ours quite a bit. When we first sat down he asked "So...did you have an affair?" Somewhat telling, I suppose. He kind of roped me into going to a small men's group every other Wednesday which he leads with four other guys. He said it was invite only and not advertised with the other groups the church has and I sort of felt like I needed to say yes. It certainly can't hurt. He essentially had the same sentiment as people here...she is running away, avoiding it, and turning away from God. I brought a backpack full of all the books I've been reading and he was impressing with how I've been working on myself and thinks I'm on the right path. He mentioned that my W is like the woman at the well and even though I am familiar with the story and had actually read it recently, I looked it up again this morning. I'm not sure quite what he meant about that and I'll try to ask him again tomorrow, but I think what he was getting at is that my W has turned away from God, sought out another relationship, and even though the A is over, she continues to turn away from God and her H. Not sure, but I'm thinking that was kind of what he meant. He asked if I had told her that I'm not going to give up on her and I had to think. I haven't.

Saw a lawyer today. With no kids, our case is relatively straightforward. I can choose to respond to her lawyer's attempt to serve me via mail or I can ignore it and make them serve me. According to the lawyer I met with I can make it as easy or as hard as I want. He even suggested that we could drag it out until next year. Conversely, we could have it all wrapped up before she deploys. My best friend said -- and I agree -- that dragging it out is "a bítch move" and will cause her more resentment and make it even less likely to rekindle anything.

I've drafted an email to her again stating that I don't want to divorce but know I can't stop her. Told her I'd like to sign the paperwork and give it to her personally. I offered to set aside a time for us to come to an agreement over our assets, it should be a fairly simple agreement. And then I said that by doing this I'm giving her the ability to end it all whenever she chooses, but asked her to give the paperwork to her lawyer and request that he sit on it for the time being. She has offered several times in the past to answer any questions I have and until now I haven't because I assumed, for the most part, that I had it figured out. But now I realize there is likely more to it than just an affair and my depression last year. So I've asked if she'll go to coffee with me and let me know what I've done to hurt her and push her away so that I can work on myself. And in the mean time while the lawyer sits on the paperwork, give ourselves a chance to relax and ask her to give me a chance to make it work.

I'm debating on that last part of openly asking her to give me a chance to make it work, but I don't need to send this today. It's a well thought-out email, I just gave you the highlights here.

Michelle talks about trying something different if what you're doing isn't working. Well, what I'm doing obviously isn't working and I feel that the situation we're in right now is oddly similar to last summer. Her being at work all the time, me being at home, etc. We obviously communicated much more last summer, but there are a lot of parallels. So, perhaps I have been doing what the books have warned against -- for example, if you were a poor communicator, going no-contact is probably not a good idea. In our case, I have mostly cut her off and we've gone about our daily business as usual. With her leaving so soon, I feel I need to change things up a bit and I believe it would be beneficial for her to see me. I may even bring the dog.