I've spent the day rereading Sandi's extensive posts on WW's as well as many other posts. Yes, I have to admit that my Wife presently has most of those characteristics. So I'm clearer on the diagnosis but I still have to come to terms with the recommended cure ..... tough love. It's the 'more of the same' aspect that's a problem for me. While I was in my denial I was very detached and doing my own stuff which was a complaint voiced by her often.
So I'm not sure how to act when she returns tomorrow after her weekend fling.
It's the 'more of the same' aspect that's a problem for me. While I was in my denial I was very detached and doing my own stuff which was a complaint voiced by her often.
According to the words written in your recent post, you are concerned about your W seeing "more of the same". Do you give more weight to this, than the betrayal of your WW? I don't really believe that is the case, b/c of the thousands of H's predating you that have made the same statements.
Think for a minute about those times you were doing your stuff and she complained. Were you concerned enough to stop doing your stuff? Were you so afraid of losing her that you immediately went into overdrive, or did you just kind of shrug it off? Currently, the easiest thing to do would be correcting all those things she use to complain about, right? Well, there is a catch.
Currently, her attention is on the OM. Her thoughts and concern is all about herself and OM. This is a woman who could leave her mother homeless, in order to live with OM. That is how wayward wives do! Some WW's even leave their children, in order to continue living a wayward lifestyle. It is gut wrenching to read stories of some WW's actions.
Back when your W wanted more of your time and attention.........making a big 180 on her complaints might have been beneficial to your MR. If she felt you were emotionally disconnected, then no doubt, she knew it before you even took notice. Women are intuitive.
Things have changed now. Her integity, standards, morality/spiritual beliefs, desires, priorities, standards, behavior, etc., have entered the Twilight Zone (chemically induced).......and this is not the girl you fell in love with and married. Although you may hear complaints coming out of her mouth........her motive has long changed from the original. Therefore, if you continue to act as if she is her former self, don't expect positive results from the self she has become. You cannot out wait waywardness in a spouse. Even if this affairs ends, the wayward mindset will likely remain in her, if you choose to use a soft approach with her.
As long as your W has OM in her head/bed...........your concern over her thoughts of you not being attentive/involved enough with her..........is a waste of energy & time.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thanks so much Sandi for your thoughtful wise post. With all your writing I'm really beginning to understand the WW mindset.
I guess my thinking was to at least have a period in which I could show her that I truly care about her and our relationship. I wanted to show her that I was careless and thoughtless during my denial and that I now understand her aloneness and am sincerely regretful that I didn't take proactive action to improve our R a few years ago. After a reasonable period I would then have a stronger basis to go to plan B - perhaps a 'tough love' scenario.
I see now that I'm not going to get that period. She has now returned after obviously having a bonding, enjoyable weekend with him. As I predicted she is now saying that perhaps the best for us is to have a legal separation. She repeats that HE loves her very much. I'm obviously quite emotional right now (fingers battling to type) but have managed to appear quite cool and calm (but not smiley). I've just looked up the statistics on Legal Separations and see that 80% end in divorce. This was unsuprising to me - how can 'not connecting' lead to reconciliation? So if the stats are right the most likely outcome is in many months down the line. Her affair will have failed but also we'll be divorced. ....Sad.
The other thing she asked was 'Why would anyone want to be with someone that is doing what she is doing?' She says if she was in my position she would just get a divorce. I replied that I've always felt that a small part of her actually wants to be abandoned (when she was 2 her Father left her Mother and herself and she's definitely had abandonment issues) and I'm trying my best for that not to happen. I know this is all WW talk but I thought it might be relevant to finding a solution here.
While I integrate this shock (I'm going for a run when I've finished typing this) any guidance for my next move would be greatly appreciated. Is a Legal Separation not regarded as 'tough love'? Also I'm 95% sure that going direct to divorce would also be acceptable to her although a Separation would be preferable. So I don't even know what tough love would look like right now. It seems all option doors are closing fast. Thanks so much.
I guess my thinking was to at least have a period in which I could show her that I truly care about her and our relationship. I wanted to show her that I was careless and thoughtless during my denial and that I now understand her aloneness and am sincerely regretful that I didn't take proactive action to improve our R a few years ago. After a reasonable period I would then have a stronger basis to go to plan B - perhaps a 'tough love' scenario.
I believe your desire to express your love and sincere regret to your W, is natural for a loving H. However, this is not the right time for that particular move. Timing is so critical in relationships..........and most everything in life. Once she is out of her waywardness, you will have the opportunity to share this with her.
Proving your love can come through other actions that, perhaps, reflect a stronger message to the wayward wife. To live with integrity and stand by the values and principles that guide your life, is what's currently needed in you, in order to shine a light for her to find the way back. Prove your love by refusing to compromise with what you believe is unacceptable conduct directed at you, carried out under your roof, within your MR, or targeted at your family.
This is the perfect time to make lifelong changes in yourself. Will it get your M back on the right tract? At first, you may fully doubt it is having a positive effect, but if you won't give up, you will come through the fires feeling stronger and more confident.
Once a wife is wayward, there will be only one thing she will respect in her H...........and that is strength! A woman wants her man to be tougher/stronger than she is, b/c he is the leader, provider and protector over her family. To have authenic attraction for a man who is emotionally weaker, is unlikely. It all boils down to her lack of respect. If she sees her H standing tall and enforcing boundaries, her feelings of respect is stirred. She may initially act angry,, but when she sees she cannot show disrespect .....without consequences.......she will begin to feel some respect for him. Not just as the father of her children, but as a man who will not tolerate her b.s. If she has a sense of entitlement and the H has enabled it, then it will be challenging......yet, fully possible for her to lose her crown of Miss Entitlement and take her place by her H's side. The best place a H could start, is to stop enabling his W in her entitled actions.
The H should establish personal boundaries that will protect his feelings. His W will either honor it, or deal with the consequences. He can use his values, principles, moral/spiritual beliefs as the foundation for his boundaries. I hope you read the link on boundaries in Cadets first post to you. Enforcing boundaries is extremely important, especially if you have a WW. Don't be afraid of them. Boundaries are not about her. It is not used to punish or control her. She has a choice to make. She will either respect the boundary, or she won't. If she chooses to disrespect, then the ball is in your hands. The next action comes from you. How will you follow through and protect yourself?
Reading Vanillia's examples of enforcing her boundaries are priceless, IMHO. She is class all the way!
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I am no control over her wanting to 'end the relationship' or not although I'd like her to choose that path. The choice between separation and direct divorce is largely mine if she doesn't end the relationship. And so I'm going to choose separation.
My question was maybe a little different. When you make your opinions so clear, it removes any incentive for her to consider changing her course. As Sandi said above, a WW is only going to respect strength. And when she is in an affair and youre saying, "Ill be here waiting if you decide to end it. I love you no matter what.", thats kind of the opposite of strength. Giving her that power and making it clear that she has that power removes any kind of consequence to her actions. So, my question is more, why are you making it evident that she is the one with the decision? You each have a decision that you should be constantly evaluating.
Originally Posted By: Searchr
I'm not ready to risk losing the marriage yet and so by default I guess I'm providing a back-up plan for her.
Read this again and again until you see why it makes no sense. Youre not ready to 'risk losing the marriage'. Your W is off in an affair with another man. What marriage do you have, right now to risk losing? Why do you have to settle for being her plan B when she's your only plan?
My advice? Become your OWN plan A. Invest in you. Let the relationship shift to the back burner and get yourself healthy.
Continuing from earlier post........If there is one common thread that I have observed in M's with a WW, it's their H's with NGS. I have lived it, witnessed it IRL since I was a child, and have read about it for the past ten years right here on the board. I am of the opinion that this is not coincidental, but is in fact, one of the main factors that distinguishes the wayward wife from the WAW.
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The other thing she asked was 'Why would anyone want to be with someone that is doing what she is doing?' She says if she was in my position she would just get a divorce.
Exactly! That is a key difference I have found in men with NGS and their WW's. When my adult daughter busted me, she made a profound statement. "If this was reversed and it was Dad, you know you would not have put up with it for a minute". I immediately agreed, b/c I know myself.
Your own WW knows she is not treating you right. If the roles were reversed, she knows she would not tolerate you having an affair and treating her the way she is currently treating you. She is trying to tell you, "What self-respecting man would want to be with a woman who treats him like cr@p"? Can you see how it deleats her respect function? A woman's ability to feel in love...is tied to her feelings of respect.
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how can 'not connecting' lead to reconciliation?
B/c you waited too long to put forth the necessary effort for an emotional connection when she wanted it, and now she is completely resistant to a connection with you. She cannot be in love with two men at the same time. She cannot emotionally connect with a H she doesn't respect, while she's in an affair.
Physical separation is not an automatic death sentence for the M. It's better than going straight for D. I hope you will stop looking at statistics, and take decisive action you need to take.
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I replied that I've always felt that a small part of her actually wants to be abandoned (when she was 2 her Father left her Mother and herself and she's definitely had abandonment issues) and I'm trying my best for that not to happen.
Please don't think I am trying to be rude, b/c that is not my intentions. Those type of responses to a wayward wife are seen as weak/passive. If I could read her mind, I'd suggest she was thinking, "This has nothing to do with my father"! Perhaps I am projecting, from my own experience. When my H first confronted me about my A, he said, "What if your dad was here and knew what you've done"? (My father is deceased and my H knew how much I respected him). Upon hearing my H say those words, I was furious and threw back to him......."Don't you dare bring my dad into this"! I saw what my H said as a passive, cheap-shot at trying to play on my feelings for my deceased father, to do the work for him.
Another thing to avoid are statements that tend to have a self-righteous ring. When I arrived here in 2007 with my wayward self, there were a few LBH'S who could really grate against my wayward temperament. I thought the whole lot of them sounded self-righteous.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
It sounds like your wife is cake eating. She is keeping you around as plan B while she continues to do as she pleases without consequences.
What were you like when the two of you got together? How have you changed?
Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator The Divorce Busting Center 303-444-7004
A Divorce Busting Coach can help you save your marriage, even when your spouse wants out.
Email virginia@divorcebusting.com or 303-444-7004 for more information or to get started right away.
Thankyou Sandi and Kaizen for pointing out my passivity. I appreciate your input as it's important that I keep reminding myself of my tendency to passivity. I do fully own my passivity and can confirm many instances in life where it has hindered me for example parenting of my (now adult) adolescent strong willed daughter was far from optimal and most probably still affects our relationship today. Having said that, I can also be quite aggressive (not just passive-aggressive which I've worked to improve for a long time) especially in my career.
The one thing I do notice in this forum is a general split between the strong tough love attitude (which I can see has been programmed into our genes - the cave woman, seeking out the strongest guy to procreate with, is still part of a WW) versus the softer approach (which is natural for 'passives' like me). I just can't see going the tough love route when I am clear I don't want a divorce. It's like setting a boundary without a real consequence.
I've reread Cadet's thread on Boundaries and am listening to the audio book Boundaries by Cloud.
My Wife is sleeping at the OM's place again tonight. She asked me in a round about way about spending a week with him at his place. There seems a bit of a Parent/child relationship with the question, yet she does her own thing. I replied that I neither want to enable or disable her decision making but this behavior really hurts me and makes me feel sick and sad.
It looks like the possibility of a separation is getting very close. I live in a state that doesn't recognize legal separation but I guess that doesn't stop putting our own agreement together to separate for a period. I asked in an earlier post - is there any resources anyone can point to when drafting up such an arrangement? Also, is there a list of considerations to take into account when agreeing on such an arrangement?
One of my choices will be to allow or not allow her Mother to live here at the outset (longer term I'm sure she'd want to make her own arrangements elsewhere) while my Wife lives with the OM. She does pay a small contribution for Rent. That might sound passive but remember that my goal is to save my marriage and begin our new relationship with as little scars as possible. I don't want to make enemies of family. Also, my Wife has to transport her around to various baby-sitting jobs and perhaps it's not a bad thing for her to keep being reminded about the nice home she is leaving behind to go live in an apartment with her lover.
Cristy thanks for the post, I might be contacting you soon.
