Gordie: trying to focus on me 2

[Gordie]

HaWho,

Wow, thank you. That advice is golden. Priceless.

[lt0402]

Agree, excellent advice HaWho!

Gordie, hope your weekend with the kids is going well brother

[roist]

Yes it is good advice.

You asked how to face your fears. In a nutshell you imagine your worst case scenario fears. Really imagine them. And you look for the silver lining. I over simplify the process, but you imagine that your worst fear comes through and you picture positives that come out of the situation.

You lose your job - you have time and energy to find better one.
Wife moves out - you have more time to do Gordie activities and loads more stuff unimaginable before.

There is always a way to look at any situation as being an opportunity.Look for that opportunity. Get enthusiastic about it. In the end you realise that even your worst fears could have up sides and even if they do occur, it is not so bad after all.

Another tool you could look up is the "worry box".

Best wishes

[Gordie]

W called me last night and we talked for 90 minutes, sometimes crying. I followed Hawho's advice and mainly listened and validated. W: I need you to help me. I can't do everything on my own. Maybe we should continue living together. I still want a divorce. I need a divorce for me. You do things for me that no one else can. I love you. I want you to prioritize our R before kids and work and everything else. I want you to be more confident and less insecure when you are with me. I want you to be my support in the shadows so I can be all I can be, the rockstar. I ended the conversation by summarizing all her points and asking her if I got everything. She said yes. She said she wanted to talk more when I get home Sunday. My only feedback was that I'm not sure it all made sense to me.

So this is a lot of progress, particularly the part about wanting to continue cohabitation, but she's still says she wants/needs a divorce. Any advice for round two tonight?

[roist]

How is getting divorced prioritising your R?!?! Your W is still all over the place. IMO you need to clearly and calmly ask if if she does realise that there will be no R of any kind except co parenting if she goes through with D. Ensure to say she is free to do so if she feels she must, but for you that will end your R.

I am sorry I cannot expand on this now.

Best wishes my friend.

[OwnIt]

Gordie:

Your W sounds a lot like my H over the past two years. He wanted us to get a divorce and not tell anyone, including the kids. He planned to work a week away from home in perpetuity and then come back every other week and pretend we were married. I told him he was crazy and he accused me of being the one who wanted to blow everything up. Eventually he was nasty to me and explosive with the kids daily and they asked me to remove him from the house. Last Saturday he posted a poem about a father longing to return home to his spouse and children. Today it was a poem about life being gray and lacking fizz.

Definitely sounds as if her thinking is impaired and that she is really struggling with losing you. I have no knowledge or basis for saying this, but it seems to me that sign of struggle bodes well for you guys.

[HaWho]

Nice job listening Gordie! Kudos to you.

And yes, clearly she is all over the map and the map itself is written in MLC, a gibberish language, unfortunately. She is having moments of clarity: how I am going to do all this by myself with 5 kids?!?

But, in true MLC fashion, she wants it all: to cohabitate while being divorced. And that bit where she wants you to be confident but then tells you exactly how she wants you to be (all of it benefitting her, of course) is particularly hilarious and paradoxical. Yes, Gordie, just stay in the shadows and let her be a rockstar. That really makes for a healthy marriage, now doesn't it? Any chance her parents didn't let her shine?

Remember, a lot of what you "hear" her saying may be projection and she literally may be back in her past talking to an authority figure. I know this sounds nuts, but I have witnessed it first hand. (At around this same point in his MLC, I missed one of these moments. My h got a little boy look and whimpered saying "there is nothing to come home to." And he looked so very little and sad. I kissed him on the forehead and told him I was sorry he felt that way. In hindsight I do believe he was in his past as at way too young an age he was coming home to an empty, dark home and fending for himself. And when I say too young, I mean he was around 7: outrageous!

So, I tell you this because not all of what she says relates to you. That's why it's über important not to come across as her father/an authority figure. In MLC there is an emotional stunting and it's very real.

It is good she is showing confusion because while all MLCers are crazy some of them seem to be more aware that their fantasy has some holes in it. Most of them just step on the gas and drive themselves over the Crazy Cliff.

Personally, right now, I would not lay down the anvil about cohabitation after a d. I would continue to make each interaction neutral/calm. She is still just talking and very confusedly so. Make the house calm, upbeat and continue "as if."

However, if she asks you directly over the phone how things will change after d, maybe say "let's discuss this in person." Then let her come find you. At that point you'll calmly but firmly need to tell her that d changes everything. She'll be on her own when she has the kids. You'll have 50% custody and you won't be running over to whip up waffles, fix furnaces, etc. But, again, she is still just talking. Let's see where her confusion leads her.

Just listen, listen, listen. The goal is that at the end of the conversation she has done all the talking and nothing negative happened. If she asks you something or wants advice, I might say "hmm let me think about that." And most likely she'll forgot all about it.

The confusion at this stage is massive! And again, she may be toggling between past and present.

If there are questions you want to ask, try using "tell me why ....," "explain how this ..." or "describe for me how..." For example is she says she needs to d for herself, I might very kindly and gently say "explain for me why you need a d for yourself?" But, only 1 or 2 of these. Otherwise, let her talk it out.

Just make the home calm/cheerful you and the kids. Let her really feel the warmth.

[Bird]

Gordie,

Hope you were able to have a good weekend away with the kids... I know it's difficult to get your attention away from the R when it seems like so much is going on in your W's head right now. It sounds like you've been given some great advice, and you've got your DB skills down pat. Just keep listening and validating and GAL. Have a great week.

[roist]

Nice job listening Gordie! Kudos to you.

And yes, clearly she is all over the map and the map itself is written in MLC, a gibberish language, unfortunately. She is having moments of clarity: how I am going to do all this by myself with 5 kids?!?

Hawho Thank you for spelling out what I hadn't time to do yesterday. There are loads of good indicators, some very promising words, but mixed in with still being adament on D.

But, in true MLC fashion, she wants it all: to cohabitate while being divorced. And that bit where she wants you to be confident but then tells you exactly how she wants you to be (all of it benefitting her, of course) is particularly hilarious and paradoxical. Yes, Gordie, just stay in the shadows and let her be a rockstar. That really makes for a healthy marriage, now doesn't it? Any chance her parents didn't let her shine?

This is why I think you need to start chipping away at her view of how things should be afterwards. She truley believes this is not only possible but actually how things will be. She may not like it when she realises this is not compatible with D.

In the same conversation that she states she wants/needs a D, she insists you put their R ahead of everything including kids. If ye were both working on it, then YES, but this is a NO NO.

Remember, a lot of what you "hear" her saying may be projection and she literally may be back in her past talking to an authority figure. I know this sounds nuts, but I have witnessed it first hand. (At around this same point in his MLC, I missed one of these moments. My h got a little boy look and whimpered saying "there is nothing to come home to." And he looked so very little and sad. I kissed him on the forehead and told him I was sorry he felt that way. In hindsight I do believe he was in his past as at way too young an age he was coming home to an empty, dark home and fending for himself. And when I say too young, I mean he was around 7: outrageous!

So, I tell you this because not all of what she says relates to you. That's why it's über important not to come across as her father/an authority figure. In MLC there is an emotional stunting and it's very real.

Yes it is very important to not take things personally and to be as understanding as possible for the turmoil she is going through

It is good she is showing confusion because while all MLCers are crazy some of them seem to be more aware that their fantasy has some holes in it. Most of them just step on the gas and drive themselves over the Crazy Cliff.

Personally, right now, I would not lay down the anvil about cohabitation after a d. I would continue to make each interaction neutral/calm. She is still just talking and very confusedly so. Make the house calm, upbeat and continue "as if."

However, if she asks you directly over the phone how things will change after d, maybe say "let's discuss this in person." Then let her come find you. At that point you'll calmly but firmly need to tell her that d changes everything. She'll be on her own when she has the kids. You'll have 50% custody and you won't be running over to whip up waffles, fix furnaces, etc. But, again, she is still just talking. Let's see where her confusion leads her.

Just listen, listen, listen. The goal is that at the end of the conversation she has done all the talking and nothing negative happened. If she asks you something or wants advice, I might say "hmm let me think about that." And most likely she'll forgot all about it.

It is possible that regardless what you do or say, it will change nothing. Things could continue as is for a long long time. Cracking her fantasy view may push her to decide between R or D, but I don't think she is in a place to decide that yet.

For me, the aim is not to push a decision nor to smash her fantasy, it is moreso just a way to help her see the reality. You say it once clearly and don't repeat it to ensure she has understood it. Instead let it sink in and give her time to fathom this "change". Once you have had this conversation, you need to try to "act as if". Do not change your behaviour, continue as you are. Hawho explained the importance of providing a safe stable environment for her. That is critical.

The confusion at this stage is massive! And again, she may be toggling between past and present.

If there are questions you want to ask, try using "tell me why ....," "explain how this ..." or "describe for me how..." For example is she says she needs to d for herself, I might very kindly and gently say "explain for me why you need a d for yourself?" But, only 1 or 2 of these. Otherwise, let her talk it out.

Just make the home calm/cheerful you and the kids. Let her really feel the warmth.

Gordie, maybe this is a phase, where a coach could offer better advice. But for me you have two aspects of the same approach:

firstly, re-enforce the positives in your R/ family life/home. Make it harder for her to leave, by having it meet her needs. Part of that is the all important validating. I would refrain from saying stuff like "I am not sure I understand". Instead say whatever you need to say so she feels heard or better still do whatever it takes so that she is heard. You can ask questions to clarify her view/thoughts to be sure you understand what she is saying. But communication is only a part od the equation. Be the best you can be at home, though do not bend over backwards just to appease her. Live your own life too. Look after yourself.

Secondly you need boundaries. You need to be clear in your own mind, what is acceptable and not. Bear in mind you are working towards getting her recommitted to the M, which differs hugely from a normal healthy M. What you accept on your path towards a full healthy R may need to be less than what you would want in a healthy M, but all is not acceptable. If you feel a boundary is right do not let fear of how she reacts stop you putting it in place. Boundaries protect you, but also are attractive, as you stand up for yourself. They can actually strengthen your R.

Best wishes

[Gordie]

LT/Bird/OwnIt/HaWho/Roist,

Thank you guys for keeping up with my situation. HaWho/Roist, your advice has been invaluable and I employed it last night. I resisted saying what was on my mind and focused on listening and validating and NOT adding in my two cents.

Tone of conversation was very positive/upbeat and W was very touchy-feely. Main thoughts W expressed:

*Thank you for not expecting me to go to XYZ social function with you (I knew she didn't want to go, so let her know about the invitation, but put no pressure on her to join me)

*Thank you for taking care of me when I was sick; I feel like you were doing it for me and not for you (W has previously accused me of taking care of her/giving her gifts because it makes ME feel good...still not sure I fully understand her point of view there)

*Thank you for not judging me (W gave specific examples of things that she had done recently where she expected me to have a negative reaction...but I didn't)

We ended the evening with some physical intimacy.