I am fearful of refusing because I worry she will make me into the villain.
Why are you fearful of this? In her eyes, you already are.
First of all, thanks Jeep for your thoughtful reply. I know I am a villain in her eyes, but I fear she will make me into a villain with the kids. I have seen too many families where the father becomes a peripheral figure and the kids gravitate to the mother. I guess I still have a strong fear of rejection. Even though I am showering the kids with love and trying to speak in each of their love languages, I still am occasionally stressed and I still have to parent/discipline. I don't think my STBXW has the same committment. Also, no one is stopping her from blaming me for any woe in her life or the children's life. I just hear a lot of stories of parents "poisoning" their children against the other. I never asked for this upheaval. STBXW pursued it with gusto.
Originally Posted By: Jeep74
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The truth is, I am now in serious debt and I am reticent to spend on almost anything right now. The kids are clamoring for more extracurricular activities and more material things, and I am more concerned about rent, tuition, and food bills. They did not ask for D, and I feel terrible that I cannot provide them with the things they want. This just worsens my resentment of STBXW.
Similar situation here. We used to go on trips every year with the kids and take them to all sorts of places. Now, I can't afford that stuff anymore. However, I found that doing free stuff (and there are tons of free things) to be much more rewarding and they will remember it just as well, if not better. Take them fishing. Build models. Play games. Play tennis. Whatever. Just do it. Be the best you can and they will see. Be careful about all this buying stuff...
I am doing free/cheap stuff. Best example, took the kids to a car wash yesterday. We cleaned the car top to bottom and the kids had a blast. Each of them said how much fun it was. I am doing my best to minimize expenses, but no matter what I try, there they are. There are just so many financial demands that crop up out of the blue. My car just broke down last week. I owe money on my taxes. Surprise!
Originally Posted By: Jeep74
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On another note, I have joined a dating website. I have already "met" a couple of women. These short-lived exchanges over the website have been invigorating. I have not even made it to the phone stage, but I did get a personal email address. I am so missing intimacy in my life - as you have all heard me lament before. I am going slowly, but I think I am ready to test the waters a bit. If I wait until I have healed completely or until my finances are sorted out entirely, I will never start.
Might want to check with your lawyer first before any dating is done if you two are married...even if you are separated, you are still married.
I rely upon the religious writ of D. Also, I am not sure what the illegalities of dating would be, especially in light of my WW antics.
Originally Posted By: Vanilla
I havent dated at all. Firstly I am not financially fit and secondly anyone I really like would get hurt.
I want a healthy date, to date at random isn't me.
It's 2 years, and I am only saying date not R.
V, as I have said above, if I wait until I am financially fit, I will have to wait forever to meet someone. I have read about your sitch many times. The abuse you endured should never be experienced by ANYONE. But you came out of it intact and you are beloved by so many. Why not date, but be honest about it? People who date are adults and can choose whether they would like to be vulnerable. that said, if it isn't you, then who are we to say otherwise.
Originally Posted By: SunnyB
RAI, just wanted to give you a welcome to this side of things.
Sunny, good to hear from you again. Regarding dating, although I only moved out 5 months ago, the M ended long before that the healing process started a long time ago. I still have a long way to go, and I am taking it slowly, but I want/need to move on. The problem is a logistical one. I am with the kids %50 of the time. The other 50% of the time I am planning for being with the kids or attending to child-related things. So with almost 100% of my time taken up by work and children, when is there time to date?
Originally Posted By: J5K
I am not sure reality has hit XW even after all we have gone through.
J5K, given the insanity my STBXW has perpetrated, I don't think she ever will understand the extent of the damage she has done. If she was cabable of understanding this, she would never do what she is doing.
Originally Posted By: J5K
I too have missed intimacy. I started dating just after the new year, a little over a year after XW left. I by no means am ready to have a serious relationship and am very honest with those I meet. It is just nice to know that there is someone from the opposite sex that still finds a D'd father attractive enough to at least go out for a nice dinner!
I think my biggest issue is where I live - which is a bit off the beaten path for most of the women that I have met. As I am orthodox Jewish and will only date orthodox Jewish women, that limits the pool a heckuva lot. There is someone here that I am sort of interested in, but our community is so small, that I am hesitant to date her in case things go sour.
**warning** the following post contains emotional nudity and unabashed self-pity. Reader discretion is advised.
It's been a while. Life as a single parent is hectic. I feel like I live from meal to meal. That said, my children are being fed and their needs - emotional and physical - are being met for the most part. Thank G-d. It has been 7 months since I have moved out. The kids are comfortable in my house and it feels like a home.
Last night was difficult for me. I have not had a lot of those in the past while, so it hit me hard. Yesterday we had an award ceremony at the kids' school. S15 was slated to receive an award so I went with children. xW was there. As soon as we arrived D8 literally ripped her hand out of mine and went to sit with xW. I was heartbroken. I know I should not take it personally, because the kids, especially the younger ones, have no clue what xW did to destroy our family. D11 was kind enough to sit with me, but towards the end of the ceremony she went off to play and I sat alone.
I am still struggling with resentment. xW pretty publicly had an A, and did a lot of other nasty things in cahoots with OM, yet people still embrace her and the kids cling to her, and I end up sitting practically by myself, sworn to secrecy, struggling in relative silence. I tried to brush it off - I hate being insecure and I know the kids love me - but I could not get past it last night. On a night when I should have been celebrating, I was cranky for the rest of the evening. I wanted to shout at D8 - tell her that she hurt my feelings terribly by running away from me on "My" night - the kids are with me on Thursdays. I wanted to tell her that I cook and clean for her, spend time with her, know her love language (quality time), and I am a great father and her mother is a fraud who only loves herself. I *HATE* seeing xW. I *HATE* seeing her act like a needy victim. She is NOT a victim. She has the house (got it for next to nothing), she has the kids affection, she has intimacy with OM - for all I know, she only works part time and gets the same salary as I do (incomes were equalized). I keep telling myself that at least I can look in the mirror every day and have no regrets over my actions. I tell myself that in the long run, I am in a MUCH better position. I try not to engage in self-pity, and I try not to make my own happiness contingent on what is happening with xW. I also want to love my children unconditionally and not expect loyalty or affection in return. I...am...just...not...there...yet. Instead, I feel like jealous resentful rejected spouse...and father. In the car ride home, D8 asked me to turn on the radio in the car, and I said no. I told her that I want to spend time with her. She said we did spend time together, and I made an oblique comment that I did not see her all night because she did not sit with me. Well, my annoyance must have showed because at bed time D8 asked me if I love her. So I sit there scratching my head wondering: how is it that D8 rejected me, and at the end of the night she is wondering whether I love her. Can she not **see** that I love her???? She broke my heart for the second time in one evening. Of course I love her! Why else would I doing everything I can for my children? Does she not see any of the sacrifice I am making? Does she not see how I bend over backwards, go to the moon and back for my kids? Has she no clue how I suffer as I mourn over the loss of the intact family? Why am I breaking my back, running around like a chicken without a head, to make sure my children have a nice home and home-cooked meals every night? Am I just feeding my own ego? Is this a covert contract with my kids: I will provide for you only if love me in return?
On a more practical, but related, note: what is the etiquette when I am attending an event which xW is also attending? May the kids sit with whomever they want or are there ground-rules or boundaries that I need to set? We have equal custody.
On an unrelated note, I have started to date a bit - only by phone, so far. It is going well and there are some prospects. A few months back, my S13 asked whether I am ever going to date and remarry. I could not gauge his thoughts and opinions on this. I was caught off guard, but told him that I would not do anything abruptly and that there would be no surprises. What prompts this question is that last night D11 saw a picture of a woman (prospective date) on my phone. She asked who it was and I mumbled "just someone, nobody really" and I quickly changed the topic. Do I tell my children that I have begun dating? Is it their business? Do the kids have a right to know? What if it gets back to xW? Dating by phone on nights when the kids are with me is difficult because I have no privacy in the house. Also, perhaps it is too soon to be dating. How does one know when one is ready? If I wait until I am completely emotionally healed, I will be an old man.
Lastly, I am struggling with keeping kids clothed. As they go back and forth between homes, the kids bring clothes back and forth. I no longer know which clothes belong to which home. For all I know, xW may be stealing clothes. Alternatively, I may be hording her clothes unknowingly. It is a question of entanglement. How can I ensure that the clothes I purchase stay at my home and vice versa. On a related note, when the kids bring home artwork from school, what is the policy?
Well, I have to say, just unloading the above has been therapeutic and cathartic.
I will end for some things for which I am thankful: It is glorious outside and I have a window in my office, facing the downtown skyline The trial is over and I am officially D I have started running again and ran 4.25 miles this week I have the rest of the day to catch up on my work My beautiful D11 knows how to make pancakes My children are healthy I seem to be a hot commodity on the dating market I have a lot of supportive friends and family
Dear RAI, hugs, you're doing such important things for your kids and I know it's hard because I was in a similar place with mine. I think two things - one is that you need to separate your goodness/victimness/identity from her. It's like you're on a balance/scale and where's she's up you're down. You will eventually get to the point where you don't define your behavior in relation to hers and the sooner the better. Just be you, do what you believe is right, and leave her sandbox to her. You'll feel better.
Second is try to loosen your grip to control things like time, clothing and artwork. It can be frustrating to think of the unfairness that they went to her on your night, and the irritation of not finding a matching outfit because half of it is at her house, and the dismay at letting any of their artwork wind up with her. This will make you crazy, irritable, and will probably impact your kids too. If you can relax, let them have the freedom to run to whichever of you they feel like at the moment (without having or expressing hurt feelings), let go of the artwork and know they'll make tons more, and handle the clothing with good humor, you will feel better and the kids will not begin to feel they need to restrict themselves to protect your feelings...believing they're responsible for your feelings could lead to codependency and possibly forming their future relationships like that. (Says one who knows from experience.)
Of all the things you mentioned, the time seems the easiest to me - it doesn't make the kids feel good to get "rules" about having to sit with the one whose night it is. Be generous and it will bode well for you.
And the clothing seems the hardest issue (to me) because it's expensive and depending on their ages they may not be capable of managing their stuff as they'll need to learn to. But the sooner they can take responsibility for their clothes, and get used to wearing something they might not want to because what they want is at the other house, the better. You can be sympathetic about their problem, but not own it. Let them figure out something else to wear. You will make yourself, and them, unhappy by trying to enforce a bought-here-stays-here rule. To them it's their clothing, not the house's clothing. If you think the X is purposefully taking the clothes and keeping them, that's all the more reason to get the kids used to packing up their own stuff and taking it to where they're going to be.
The best thing I think you could do is focus on the blessings you have, and let the hurtful and irritating things roll off your back. Venting here is fine, but like they say, what you focus on, expands.
Glad to hear you're a hot commodity! Good for you! You have a lot going for you. Relax!
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
I think adinva answered everything very well. It's a big adjustment and the feelings attached are something to get used to.
What has helped me through the unfairness of it all and those hurt feelings? Simply focusing on my daughters feelings and best interest. not on my own. Putting myself solely in her shoes and removing myself from the situation. My D says mostly with me, so there would be times when she was a toddler, she would cry like heck when he brought her back. Sure, I wanted to cry my eyes out. Didn't she know mommy is the one who is always there for her? If she only knew it was daddy who chose this? No, you just can't think that way.
A married friend reminded me sometimes her kids have preferences on who they spend time with that day, or who they are going to run errands with, or who they want to take clothes shopping. It doesn't only happen in divorce. That's what kids do. There may be another day she attends something with her mom and comes running over to sit by you. Occasionally my ex and I will take our daughter out to dinner together. Sometimes she decides to sit by me, sometimes she decides to sit by dad. It has nothing to do with us.
The clothing issue makes me laugh now because it's been ongoing since our D was a baby. We split when she was a baby, and as babies do, she loved to pull off socks. She spent most of her time with me, But as a busy full time working single mother trying to raise a child practically alone, I couldn't chase after socks. he would always complain about socks not coming back and told me I need to replace them. I bough a package and threw it at his head.
My daughter developed a complex over "daddy's clothes" and mommy's clothes" I hated she got anxious about it. I always reminded her that they were HER clothes. Even the other night she said "should I put on daddy's underwear?" I told her she would look quite ridiculous in her father's underwear.....
So, we try to give clothes back. She knows who's home they come from. And if she wants to wear something she makes sure it gets to the house it needs to. Sometimes I don't realize it, and I have stuff from his house for a while, and he has stuff from mine. it'll never be perfect.
I guess I lucked out with the artwork because he doesn't care to save anything. I've got it all. But no policy on it. Whoever the kids bring it home to, they bring it home to. If you would like some of your kids artwork, have them make some at your house.
Yes, it is unfair, it stinks and it is certainly and adjustment period. But it can't be changed, so you can only make th ebest of the situation and it will come together in time.
Thanks Adinva and Ginger1. It has been a few months since I last posted. Things get better every month, thank G-d. I have met an amazing woman. My kids are comfortable at my house. I am almost caught up at work. There are still difficult days, but there is so much for which to be thankful. I just want to say hi to all my fellow DBers and I hope got are all doing well.
Your letter about the awards was so touching I thought "geez, I'd give anything to have a H who craved quality time with our children. you are a gem.
I almost considered converting just to meet a guy like you! Okay that might be pushing it but - you are one of the good ones and I think you will meet a lovely valuable woman.
I am 11 months from filing and reeling) . Some health issues prevented me from taking in the events (I had seizures and new medication really interfered with my short term memory. I'm fine now! but the early months are a fog.
As I begin to enter the dating world, I live in my old stomping grounds now and so there are a few high school guys I know who are interested. I'm very comfortable with one and for now, doing things together is enough for me. I'm making a list of "must haves" and "must NOT have" and the list was to be only one page...
I have a lot to edit!
I'm sorry you felt "all alone" at the event. What happened to you was grossly unfair
and yet it happened. I relate to the "they get away with it???" realization.
Your w, like my stb x, literally cannot see and admit they created a lot of wreckage heaped upon the people who loved them most.
If it were us realizing that we had done that to our children, we would be brought to our knees. Our spouses are not us;
they cannot see the reality b/c they're not self aware enough to grasp it - OR they CANNOT face it b/c it's too damn devastating.
I think the Karma is when they actually MISS us, and what we had; --- whic h they'll never have again.
More later on how not to become a victim of parental alienation
xoxo
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Your letter about the awards was so touching I thought "geez, I'd give anything to have a H who craved quality time with our children. you are a gem.
I wish for you what you wish for yourself!
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I almost considered converting just to meet a guy like you! Okay that might be pushing it but - you are one of the good ones and I think you will meet a lovely valuable woman.
I have! We have been dating for 8 months. I actually proposed to her this past weekend. She said yes. No ring yet. We are looking at a home. We will be a large blended family. The two families just spent the weekend together. I can't believe how things have evolved. Life is insane! I can't say I don't have any reservations, just because of my past experience with XW, but wife-to-be, we'll call her WTB, seems to be interested in working hard at a relationship. We share the same values. I am sure there will be bumps and meddling from XW, but we will handle them together. I worry a bit about S6. He is very attached to his M and she is not doing anything to foster independence in him.
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I am 11 months from filing and reeling) . Some health issues prevented me from taking in the events (I had seizures and new medication really interfered with my short term memory. I'm fine now! but the early months are a fog.
Will stop by your thread next. I am glad you are doing better.
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As I begin to enter the dating world, I live in my old stomping grounds now and so there are a few high school guys I know who are interested. I'm very comfortable with one and for now, doing things together is enough for me. I'm making a list of "must haves" and "must NOT have" and the list was to be only one page...
I like that idea. Have you made your list yet? I would love to see it. I will ask you at your thread too.
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I'm sorry you felt "all alone" at the event. What happened to you was grossly unfair
Things are much easier when I remove my ago from the equation. Sometimes easier said than done.
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Your w, like my stb x, literally cannot see and admit they created a lot of wreckage heaped upon the people who loved them most.
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they cannot see the reality b/c they're not self aware enough to grasp it - OR they CANNOT face it b/c it's too damn devastating.
I think it pervades everything they do and dictates a lot of their actions. XW must accuse me to make herself feel better. It is a sorry existence. I don't know if she is with OM, and most days I no longer care. But I am starting to feel sorry for her because she F---ed her life up so badly. I can't see her ever achieving the happiness she had when we were married.
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I think the Karma is when they actually MISS us, and what we had; --- which they'll never have again.
Bingo.
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More later on how not to become a victim of parental alienation
I think I have gotten the hang of it for the most part. I definitely have to work on communication with her.
I'm not sure if you remember me, but you are definitely someone I remember. Congrats on the new relationship and proposal . You are one of the good guys and you did your dues. You deserve the best. Please post again, I will always keep and eye for you.
Glad to hear things are going on a positive path for you and the kids. Hope to hear more good things for you and your children in the future.
H-46 XW-38 T-7 M-6 S-9,8,8,6,4 S 11/30/15, I filed 12/8/15 EA 2/1/16 D dismissed 3/24/16 PA 3/18/16 confirmed 4/22/16 XW files for D 4/1/16 - D final 11/17/16 Finally moving forward...
