The Summer of Love, Treasure and a Popup Tent.

[LouR]

So here we are, another thread down.

Link to my last thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2731798&page=1

For those who are following along, the last entry on my previous thread promised details of my non-date date, so here is how it went.

I walked to his house and he drove us to the car park (I let s20 where I was going to be), it was 8am when we got there, the sun was just coming up over the cliffs. The walk there was fantastic, we chatted and the sun caught different parts of the cliffs which made them look dramatic. There was a curved part which acted like an amphitheatre and you could hear the waves in the walls, it was a very special moment.

We walked to the end and up to a hut for a short break,it was good to stop and by then my hips were beginning to ache. Conversation flowed, but it was me who was starting it off, once he got chatting he was happy to chat. We laughed, he made jokes and it was light, I felt comfortable – although the “wtf is this” hung over me.

We then continued upwards to the gannet colony, it was cool although not as dramatic as I had imagined. By then I was starting to really ache and we had the prospect of a 2hr walk back.

Walking back was a bit quieter, I was starting to be in real pain and struggling to make conversation, it marred the trip in the end. I noticed he was hobbling but not saying anything. We eventually got back to the car, 5hrs of walking, both tired and yawning, both aching. He drove back slowly, concentrating on the road, we went back via his old house so he could show me where he used to live. He asked about stopping for an ice cream, but I just wanted to get home so said thanks but not for me.

I had a lovely time and if it had not been for the pain it would have been a very special walk. It was ambitious for me being so unfit these days and I am now paying the price by being stiff and sore lol. Something to eat, drink and a nana nap has helped.

What today has shown me is that:

I did not feel any desire of the romantic nature toward him or connection, just friendship.

Red flags went up about him and he to me is not a future romantic prospect and wont give me the life I want for myself. I feel I would be a fixer and compromising on what I want out of a relationship and in a person.

I could have done that walk on my own and been just as happy, if not more so as I could have stopped and looked for shells and treasure and done it a slower pace.

I am happy being on my own, content in my own company. It took me doing something with someone else to find this out.

What also came out of this day was as I was walking along all I could think was “h would love this – the amphitheatre, the scenery, the walk.” I missed him, I missed how he was with me, how we were together.I miss the chatting and jokes, the comfortableness we have around each other. We were so comfortable, even after he did BD2, for the 2 weeks after, it was strained but I felt safe and ok around him.

It has shown me that I am far from over him and not ready for anyone else to be in my life. I am not sure that I will ever feel the connection I have with him with anyone else and so for now, whilst I will get on with trying to enjoy my life as much as possible, I continue to hope that one day he will come out of this and feel differently about me, he will find the all-important lost feeling.

So to the title of my thread.

Summer of Love, treasures and a pop up tent. This summer (as we are coming to the end of summer here) I have learnt and grown so much. It took today for me to see just how much.

I have spent time on myself, giving myself the love and attention I need and deserve. I have become comfortable with being on my own, doing things that makes me happy and not doing it to please those around me. I have looked at what I want from a relationship and am resolute and strong in not compromising for the sake of having someone in my life.

I have been nurturing my soul and spirit, nurturing it by my renewed fondness for treasure hunting on beaches, finding joy in discovering new places and dreaming of trips I can take with my new freedom.

I have found courage and bravery to try new things and not be afraid to step out of my comfort zone, buying a pop up tent for some new adventures, I hope it arrives soon

Thank you to all of you who continue to read along, support me and are coming along for the ride.

[job]

Lou,

I'm glad you went on the hike. At least you did something a bit different and now you have come to realize that you aren't over your h yet. It does take time to get to the over side of the bridge.

I'm so proud of you! You continue to amaze me w/your determination and "stepping outside your comfort zone". Keep it up! I can't wait to hear about your first adventure w/your tent!

[Westo]

Very proud of you Lou,

I did wonder if he was after the pop up tent!

[mleigh4]

Lou, you sound so grounded. I love your inner confidence, you will be ok. It's so hard not to miss our old H, I do too. Keep those memories, it's like they say, it's better to have loved than never love before. Or something like that. Anyway, I think the fact we ever had that love and connection is very special, some never do.

Take care and please keep us updated.
M

[LouR]

Its been a couple of weeks since I last updated. I have been reading along, but right now I don't have much to offer, the tank is empty despite my attempts to fill it.

I have been on a couple more walks with work friend, nothing has changed on that front, he continues to be nice company but that is it for me and I get the impression he feels the same way about me.

My tent arrived and I have been buying the rest of my camping equipment so I can get adventuring before the cold weather sets in. I am going to have my first outing in it this coming weekend, I found a nice free beachfront camp site to visit and a Waterfall walk on the way home. My g/friend has asked if she can tag along so she will be keeping me company for my first venture out with the tent, but I will go out in it on my own the following weekend weather permitting.

I mentioned earlier that I feel I am running on empty, I have been tired and down lately, I know my thyroid level could be fluctuating and not helping, but I know there is more to it. A couple of weeks ago h paid for S20 to fly down to him for the weekend, I don't know why, can't explain it, but it really affected me emotionally and I got quite down, I kept myself occupied and rode through the feelings, but since then I have not really bounced back up.

True to form he flashed the cash and gave S20 a weekend to remember and I knew it would only be a matter of time before S20 mentioned moving to his dads, which happened a few days after he came home. I do know that it is probably "pie in the sky" and will never happen, but it made me feel like " your not content with smooshing my life in to the ground, you want to take my son away from me too". For all I know h does not even know of S20 thoughts, but it felt mighty personal and I was so bitter towards him at that point.

Then we come to yesterday - S20 came into my bedroom to chat (which he does regularly) and we were talking money as he wanted to borrow some, as I have lent him quite a bit lately while he was "between jobs" I replied "can't you ask for dad for some, it must be his turn by now" and S20 said that he doubted his dad would be able to, that he has only just gone back to work and is trying to catch up on the debts he accrued while being off, plus having to buy stuff for his new place. I didn't reply. S2O was texting through this conversation and then said "dad is going to start paying you now he is working again" I acknowledged what he had said and then S22 continued " he has just asked me how the land lies with you, if he can email you to let you know about whats going on or if it would not be welcome, so I said that you may get upset so to not email and I will tell you about the payments myself" I just replied, ok thanks and left it there.

Well, I did not expect to feel the wave of unexplained emotions that followed, it bubbled up and suddenly I found myself in tears. I don't know if part of me wanted to receive the email from him, have the contact; which is ridiculous as I know full well it would have been either factual and pointless which would cause me emotional disappointment (being honest here) or contain something I dont want to read and once again cause me emotional distress - either way it would have not done me any good.

4 months of no contact from either of us, I thought I would have handled this better, its a bit demoralizing that he still has such a strong effect on me, I am doing everything I can to keep living this life, to find contentment with how it is now, but somehow I am not able to make that mental leap and make peace with he and I being no more, such sadness follows me.

I am weary of feeling this way, yet I dont seem to have any control over it, I tell myself one thing and then find myself feeling the opposite, crazy and infuriating huh.

So that's the latest from my world, just trying to remain removed from h's world and living in mine as best I can.

Love and hugs to you all XOXO

[job]

Lou,
It's okay to cry and have those emotions/feelings bubble up. They aren't going to go away very quickly. It could take a year or more before your emotions/feelings settle down. Why? Because you share sons w/him and your sons are sharing info about their father w/you. Also, you have a false reconciliation that really shook your core because it looked like it might work out. Let's face it, your heart is shattered and it's going to take time to put those pieces back together again and you will, but it's going to take time.

I'm glad you are still walking w/your friend. At least you both are on the same page about the feelings you both share, i.e., friendship, not romantically inclined. Enjoy the walks and the company and try to relax a bit.

I can't wait to hear more about the tent, camping, etc. I hope it's easy to pop up and you can escape for a while so that you can find some peace, quiet and just relax a bit.

As for your son asking for money...time to start hitting dear old dad up for some cash.

Lou, it's one step forward, two steps back and it's going to take some time to heal. Give yourself permission to feel the pain and loss and when the anger comes, find something physical to release that anger out on.

[kml]

And please, do SOMETHING about your thyroid! I know the doctor wouldn't treat you, try another one! If not, see if any supplements are available that could help you (I know the rules there may be stricter than in the states, but here you can buy some thyroid glandular supplements that actually do contain a little bit of T3, the active form - they're not allowed to have T4 but there is a loophole in the law. Not the best way to do things but better than suffering along untreated.)

[LouR]

Thank you so much job, I needed to hear a bit of TLC and know that I am not stuck ...yet.

kml - I went to see my dr and he was away and so saw a female Dr who has just started at the practice. She said the same as my Dr, they don't treat until at least 10 as Tsh levels can fluctuate quite a lot up until then, which I have proved correct as my levels are all over the place. My next bloods are May so will see what they come back as. I will look in to supplements and see what I can get over here.

This weekend I went camping with a g/friend, we only went for an overnight camp just to see what I need to change if anything before I go solo. After work on Saturday we drove for about 1.5hr to a free camp site that backs on to sand dunes. We set up camp under some trees for shelter and had dinner (first issue - it was windy and cooker struggled to boil kettle for a cuppa), fell asleep to the sound of the waves, felt safe (we took separate tents) as other campers around us and woke up just as the sun was rising. After a cooked breakfast (cooker went well with the bbq plates on it) we packed up our site and went for a walk along the beach. Then set off for another 1hr drive to find a waterfall I had read about, along the way we passed a hill which allegedly has the longest place name in the world - "Taumatawhakatangihangakoauauotamateaturipukakapikimaungahoro nukupokaiwhenuakitanatahu", which translates into English as "the place where Tamatea, the man with the big knees, who slid, climbed and swallowed mountains, known as'landeater',played his flute to his loved one."

We drove in to the hills and onto a very long and winding gravel road in search of the waterfall, the road seemed to go on forever and completely off the main road, I am sure I could hear banjo's being played as we went further in to the back country! Then there it was, the waterfall, it was impressive in height and width but sadly due to a very dry summer it was more a trickle than a thunderous roar, but still, it was worth the expedition. So now back home, car unloaded, laundry on, showered and a cup of tea in hand my first tent adventure is documented, photographed and safely in the memory bank. Onward to my first solo adventure which weather permitting will be next weekend.


In other news - h was true to his word and paid me some money (not much and works out that if he continues on this amount it will be 32 months of payments!). The day it arrived in my bank I played with the thought that I should acknowledge the payment, I just felt it was the polite and courteous thing to do - just because he is an a$$ does not mean I have to sink to his level - so the following day I sent him an email, I kept it short, wrote " Hi, Thank you for the payment, s20 told me to expect it. I hope this finds you well, much love L x" I know this may lead to a 2x4 from you, the unnecessary sentiment, but I always have signed off that way, its what I do, we are not d, I do still care about him (crazy I know) so I did what felt right for me, whether he reacted to it or not.

Next morning I received an email from him, saying "hey, I am sorry I did not start payments sooner, I only went back to work 3 weeks ago, I am now working at xyz as a manager, very challenging,steep learning curve for a year or 2!! Payments have been set for this date each month from now on.
Yes I am well thanks, I hope you are the same. Love, Me x

So the communication blackout has been broken. I felt it was as pleasant as it could be under the circumstances, I did not send a reply, I dont intend to and I dont expect to hear from him again.

My g/friend is cross with me, said I have given him an in again and she gives him 2 weeks before he emails me for something trivial, just making sure I am still hooked. She is concerned that I will never get over him and move on while we have contact.She said he has a fantasy woman and at the moment he will be trying out a few women and each one of them not the fantasy, but as he ages the pool of women gets smaller, all the while he is keeping me in the background, until his pool is a puddle and I am the best and only option left.

I do understand what she is saying , just getting that email made my emotional state heightened for a couple of days, I felt a little sad while camping knowing that it would have been us together had our reconciliation worked out. I also have this thing in my head about "who is going to fancy a middle aged, broke, balding, wobbly woman" and that h is the one who accepts how I look as he has been with me throughout, someone is better than no one kind of thing.

I know its stuff I need to work through and find a way of accepting it. I don't expect him to be interested in me again, he has made it very clear he isn't anymore, and I am not sure I could be with him now anyway. We just don't seem to be able to walk away from each other permanently, when one talks the other listens and responds, the cycle continues, until one of us is strong enough to say "no more".

Right, well my laundry is done and it will be an early night for me before work tomorrow. I have had a really lovely weekend, highs and lows in the feelings game but happy that I am living life and experiencing new things and places.

Thanks for reading xoxo

[ciluzen]

Hey LouR! I've been reading along. I'm jealous of your tent and tent adventure. I love the outdoors and hike around all over with my pup, but haven't taken the next step in finding a tent as you have (all of my camping equipment was for a family of four and not made for packing on my back).

So, just weighing in on the thyroid thing. My Dr. could not get my levels under control with meds for years (I have Hashimoto's). Then I went to a lecture in which the speaker spoke briefly about the connection in the increase in thyroid issues and decrease in use of iodized table salt (high salt packaged foods and fast foods do not have iodine) and foods containing iodine in the average diet. When I started salting with iodized table salt and adding more iodine containing foods (fish and seaweed, eggs) to my diet, my thyroid levels stated evening out. Just adding kelp powder to my smoothies in the morning helped! Just a thought. I'm very inspired by your posts!

[job]

Lou,
I am so glad that your first camping trip went well. The waterfall sounds delightful and I'm sure you enjoyed seeing it, but I am sad to read that it was only a trickle because of the dry weather. So, where will you go next? The same place or somewhere different?

I think you did the right thing in acknowledging that you had received the money. No whacks from me. We can't lower ourselves to their level and by thanking them for the things that they do is the best way to go. It shows them that we have manners and can acknowledge them for the "good" deeds that they do.

Please take care of yourself. I can't wait to hear of your next adventure!

[123Gwen]

Lou - I'm sorry I disappeared. Just kind of retreated but I have been thinking of you. I got all caught up and honestly I am so mad for you. Not at you but at H --- the idea of MLC and why they do or say things doesn't matter when it is your emotions that are affected.

You have been so positive and strong from day one. I was crsuhed but you just kept regrouping and looking for a silver lining. It was obvious that you would not let this hardship stop you from being grateful about something or someone each day.

You were strong from NZ to the UK and back again. You looked for the positive during apartment hunting, career searching and being a mom to your boys when they are at an age where you have little control but they can drive you bonkers.

You my friend are so much stronger than you realize and this has been a long haul flight through MLC. Let the grief wash over you and then scrub it off when you are ready.

You've come too far to get stuck. You bought a tent - I probably would have crawled into a box. You bought a tent! That is the action of a woman who is ready for adventure.

I am not being trite Lou. Your posts from the get go always resonated with me. Every line had a little hopeful word or action. You were always thinking about how to keep moving forward.

I know you want to move ahead with H but perhaps he will never catch up? Sounds like you are going to be okay because he may have helped you put up the tent but you were the one that read the directions.

I am sending you good vibes my friend. Stay strong.

[LouR]

Hey Gwen !! I have missed you so much, I will post on your thread shortly. Thank you for you lovely words, some times I don't feel I am doing well at all, but then someone posts something that shows me how far I have come ....so truly, thank you, it came at such a good time for me.

Its been a while since I posted an update, mainly because life just carries on and I just move through the days so have nothing much to write, but now my "friendship" with NG has gathered a little speed which I went along with but its now come to a point where I have to decide where I want it to go.

We continue to go for walks, then going out for a coffee was added in, next was ice cream and a walk around a park gardens, this week we went to a light festival and coffee and the week ended in The Mission Concert where the Dixie Chicks were headlining, NG managed to get us perky tickets through our work who supplied all the marquees and furniture. I knew the "friend zone" line was beginning to blur but last night kinda confirmed that we are heading in a direction I am not sure I want to. At the end of our non dates we started off just saying thanks and see you tomorrow, then it evolved in to a hug and kiss on the cheek - like I do with other friends - but last night he went in for the full kiss and I panicked and fluffed crazy waffle to get me out of the car as quickly as possible lol ....well it was not funny at the time but I look back and think, seriously how old am I !! The texting has become constant, he even texts me at work ...and we work in the same place??

The situation continues as a few weeks ago (when we were really in friend zone still) I agreed to go camping for Easter with him (separate tents), maybe I have been blind to what was going on from day one, or may be things have developed over time for him, but I am now in a situation that I am struggling with a bit.

His background is that he got divorced 10yrs ago and it was messy (dont know the details, but it badly affected him ....i can identify with him there ) and he has not had a relationship or even dated since, he could not bring himself to put himself out there. So to be "the first" when I am not fully healthy emotionally myself is a recipe for disaster and pressure on me to not be the one who hurts him....which is possible.

The other thing I am struggling with is that he is too nice ... yeah, I know, get a grip woman ...but he really is and I am not used to such attention, respect, consideration and kindness, its overwhelms me. My past life was controlled by someone else, then I got given control and independence and I have become fiercely protective of it, and now I am being asked to release a little of that control and let the guard down to allow someone else to make decisions and do things for me, I am having problems releasing that control.

On top of all that I dont "feel" what I think I should feel for him. With h it was an intense connection from day one for both of us and even now we click straight away when we have contact, which is why I have had to remove myself completely from his life, otherwise I would be completely stuck on moving forward from him. Don't get me wrong, I like this guy, he is good for me, we have lots in common, he is supportive and makes me laugh and the ego boost has not been a bad thing for my soul, but I am concerned that this is rebound thing, a distraction to keep my head away from thinking about h. The other thing that is holding me back is (and I will be honest, because this is all part of the new path I am on and may resonate with someone else) is the total fear of being physical with someone else - I am laughing as I write this, but its a real fear and ummmmmm how?? lol.

Nothing else really happening, work is going ok, I have had a couple of projects to keep me busy. I have had a pay rise which was a nice surprise, still not a great wage but every little extra counts. S20 has announced he and g/friend are moving out and in with her parents end of May, which was a surprise but it will save them money and they have made a payment plan to pay me back all that they owe (believe it when I see it!!). Unfortunately it puts me in the position of having to think about moving myself as I cant afford the house (I can but then I would not be able to save anything), I am still so unsettled and now with the NG thing added in I am feeling flighty, just move away and get out of this situation I have found myself in - but really its running away and not going to achieve anything and I could be walking away from a potentially great relationship ....sigh.

On a different note - the concert was great, I had a great evening, a few different bands but Avalanche City and Dixie Chicks were great and I feel so lucky to have been able to go - a new experience that is definitely going in the memory bank

Onwards and Forwards to Easter, 4 days camping in the mountains ....wish me luck ha ha

Love n Hugs to you all xoxo

[bttrfly]

hi doll.
been in my own head a lot so haven't posted but i too am following along.

where to begin.

well, no 2x4s from me on your interaction w/h. i get it and you were being true to who you are.

ng ... hmm. i think being open and honest with him is best. uncomfortable, but best and you can do it gently and kindly because that's who you are innately. specifically i would focus on these parts of what you said:

So to be "the first" when I am not fully healthy emotionally myself is a recipe for disaster and pressure on me to not be the one who hurts him....which is possible.

but he really is and I am not used to such attention, respect, consideration and kindness, its overwhelms me. My past life was controlled by someone else, then I got given control and independence and I have become fiercely protective of it, and now I am being asked to release a little of that control and let the guard down to allow someone else to make decisions and do things for me, I am having problems releasing that control.

leave out the 'you're too nice' part - we get it but he doesn't have to hear that. everything else, keep it on you, and you're golden.

I like this guy, he is good for me, we have lots in common, he is supportive and makes me laugh and the ego boost has not been a bad thing for my soul, but I am concerned that this is rebound thing, a distraction to keep my head away from thinking about h.

now, that would be a great conversation to have and would leave you feeling a bit easier in your skin.

if you felt like opening up more I would also mention the fear of intimacy with someone else. you just aren't ready yet and that's ok.

i don't advocate walking away, i advocate talking through it.

and poor guy - geesh, talk about gun shy. i get that.

Lou I also get the intensity between you and H and caution you about thinking you ought to feel that way in a new relationship. I'm not sure about that. Maybe not? Of course my experience is extremely limited to exbf and exh, but with exbf there was something that just kept me there until one day i realized wow, i really love this guy and that connection became incredibly intense, and truth be told, all these years later we still read each other with ease, despite not seeing or being in contact for decades. It's a bit to get used to. with exh it was instantaneous, but not the same as with exbf and i wondered about that in the beginning. I think different people elicit different responses from us, different is not better or worse, greater or lesser, it's just different.

Despite not being intense in the same way, i loved - ok love - my exh deeply. He is very dear to me, and always will be. I think now that if i met someone new, it would have to be someone very special for me to make time to share my life with them because i have way too much going on. But don't close the door because it's different. You'e a jumble of emotions right now and sorting through them is paramount. Give yourself the time and permission to feel whatever it is you are feeling and understand that being gentle with yourself is the way you will process this.

as always Lou dear, sending you much love and many blessings xoxoxoxoxo
{{{{{{{Lou}}}}}}}

[LouR]

Hi Everyone, I haven't been around the boards for a few weeks, geez I seem to have missed quite a bit! I will endeavour to catch up.

I have not been around as I have been in a funk, I don't know why, I have not really bounced back from when h left again, I can't even say it comes in waves, its just there as a constant way of feeling, so very tired and emotional.

I try very hard to get out there and GAL, I am social, I am moving forwards at work, even got a pay rise, I am even coming up with future ideas, yet this low mood and emotional turmoil does not want to leave me. I have grown weary of this whole situation.

I continue to hang out with guy friend occasionally; we are firmly in the friend zone and I feel more comfortable in his company now that has been established. We push each other to go places and do things, so for now we are doing each other some good.

Work is going well, a little too well, I have once again shown my abilities and have created a bit of a monster for myself, I still have a lot to learn but I get to be creative and play with the ideas I have to for the most part I am enjoying the job.

I have not heard from h,very quiet on that front, been 3 yrs since BD, 6 months since the second time. I now dread the day I do get something from him as all he has left to throw at me is D, I know its the natural progression, but while I am still struggling it will be another twist of the knife that will cause me more sadness.

Life with s20 is a challenge, his loss of licence means that I have had to step up and do the work runs, unfortunately he does not work the same hours as me so its been a little challenging both for time and my nerves!! I have taken the house back on as s20 and g/friend can no longer afford to pay all the rent and bills, so now we have swapped roles again and I have given him a year to pay me back what he owes me.

S23 is doing really well and is happy which is a blessing. He told me the other day that he is worried about me and wishes would move to where he is,which was really sweet of him. But he knows s20 needs the support right now and is not handling what his dad has done very well. S23 told me his dad life is @#$%ed up and he cant see that ever changing. Both boys have said that dad is their dad and that's it, they have zero respect for him, just use him when they want something - so sad that they treat him that way, but he bought this on himself.

So for now it just one day at a time, keep breathing and being thankful for bedtime.

Well must away, I am going to drive a bit of the Thermal Highway tomorrow, so I have to get up early. I hope everyone is doing ok and I will try to catch up with you all very soon - I dont feel I have much to offer you right now so don't comment much anymore, but please know each and every one of you are in my thoughts.

xoxo

[bttrfly]

Missed you bunches Lou. Glad for you that you and guy friend are pushing each other on the GAL activities. Glad you are enjoying work and they recognize what a jewel you are!

Yes, one day at a time and grateful for bedtime here too sister xoxoxo i understand the funk. you got the wind knocked out of you and it takes that dreaded word time to get your feet back under you.

sending prayers for S20 to find his balance in all this. it's so hard for the kids. breaks my heart every time.

sending prayers, hugs and love to you too my friend. i've truly missed you. xoxoxo

[LouR]

Hi Bttrfly,

Thank you so much for dropping by, I am truly grateful for the beautiful souls on this board.

I don't have anything new to update about, just thoughts that run through my head ..... which seems constantly atm.

NG asked to talk and eventually told me that the reason his marriage broke down and she left him was because he went to prison for a couple yrs. He did not want to say why, just that he had become a different person and for it lost his family and life and freedom. It does not change anything for me, I told him so, I know him as he is now and who am I to judge anyone else. However, since then I feel his neediness as a friend, (he has said that only a handful of people know his past and at work its only the boss) so as he now takes me in to his trust about other things. I am happy to be his friend, but I have found myself increasingly uncomfortable around him when I am uncertain about where his feelings for me actually lie - because while I have made it clear I am not looking for a relationship, he hasn't.

Work has been tough this week, my manager has been away and I have had to step up and that has shown me more capable than I wanted to give away, I even went to a client meeting and got the job which has now set myself up for bringing more clients in. This is not a big company so no room for promotion, so I know that I have just put myself in the position of being used and abused ....just like my old job. So I am thinking that I will let them use me so I can learn as much as I can and then look at moving on next year.

There has been nothing from h, I find myself waiting for the email to say he has filed for d so to expect the papers. I also find myself wondering why he has not done it yet, he has been gone 7 months; I understand the holding off last time as he was unsure and confused about what he wanted and while I was still a possibility he did not want to make the situation permanent, but what is his reasoning this time? He has made it very clear that he has shut the door on me/us its no longer a possible in his head, so why the delay, he can't marry his "forever" ow if he is still married to me!(I don't know that there is ow currently on scene but I am under the impression there is by a few comments the boys have made). Its my birthday this week, the past 2yrs he has been in contact, yr1 he was having problems with ow and was thinking he had made a mistake with us and yr2 was him working towards reconciling permanently. So what will yr3 bring ......my guess is on silence ......

Funk wise - yep still in it, finding that the tears are back, generally bubble up out of nowhere and dont last long. Mainly over sadness of missing him ....or maybe its not him, its what he bought into my life. The more I hang out with other people (especially men) the more I miss h, the intelligent conversation, his humour, his challenging, his hugs. I miss the little things he did to enhance my day. I miss my old life, what I had to what I have got now. Everything changed. But then some things have changed for the better - I am no longer so scared to step out of my comfort zone that I wont even try, I am financially independent and whilst I struggle to make ends meet some weeks and get stressed about the future, it does feel good to be more in control of things as that was an area that really did fail in my relationship. I have learnt to say NO to people and not feel guilty. I am still here, still breathing and despite everything he has done and said to me I still feel care and love for him, no hate or bitterness, so he has not broken me completely.

Here end'th my ramblings, its my day off so am treating myself to a duvet day, I have volunteered to cover some holidays and out of hours work to get some extra money coming in, so I really do value my days off at the moment and make sure that my day off is just that, no housework, grocery shopping or catching up with stuff, only doing stuff I want to do.

Love and hugs to you all xoxo

[bttrfly]

Happy birthday, Lou!!

So nice to have an update from you! I had a nap this afternoon too, speaking of duvet days.

I'm a little concerned that you're uncomfortable because you don't know his intentions. Is he perfectly clear that he's in the friend zone with you? Do you feel safe? Just checking. You know, you're one of my "peeps" so I'm protective, hope no offense was taken. I do think you're right to accept the person you know.

Yes, learn all you can, continually update your resume. Make it a regular practice every time you learn something new. Don't put it off because then it becomes overwhelming, and if something comes up, you'll want to be ready to move fast.

I understand the funk and the tears. Same here. The grief continues. But as you noted, they bubble up and then go away. Riding the wave. You've come so far just in the time I've known you. I'm so proud of you for feeling care and love. It's so easy to fall into hate or bitterness, but you're right - that's when they win. That's when you get turned into someone else, rather than being your true self.

I'm so glad you take care of yourself and honor that day off by treating it as sacred. Great update my dear. I miss seeing more regular posts from you but I am very grateful for the posts we do get. Love you Lou. Have a wonderful birthday. xoxoxoxoxo

[LouR]

Hey There Bttrfly,

Thanks for dropping by and the Birthday Wishes!

I'm a little concerned that you're uncomfortable because you don't know his intentions. Is he perfectly clear that he's in the friend zone with you? Do you feel safe? Just checking. You know, you're one of my "peeps" so I'm protective, hope no offense was taken. I do think you're right to accept the person you know.

Yes I feel safe with him, he is very respectful. I have made it clear that I am not looking for a relationship with anyone, that this is not about him as a person, its about any man who enters my life at the moment, I am not in a place within myself to commit to a relationship, I am still very much hung up on h. But what he is thinking is the unknown, he has never actually said he is not interested in me romantically, some things suggest no and others yes, and with most men (sorry guys) they keep what they are thinking inside and dont talk about it, unlike us women who chatter on about everything and anything! I work with him (closely) so I dont want to ask him in case it makes things awkward - my best option is to leave ha ha ha ha lol.

My problem lately is that when I am with people, particularly men, I am finding that I become uncomfortable in their company and I start to miss h more. I am also struggling to be around couples and listening to g/friends share their relationship woes - which I do listen to as that is what being a good friend is about.

Good idea about adding to my cv each time I learn something new, I will get on to doing that.

Love n Hugs xoxo

[Sotto]

Hi Lou, many happy returns to you and I hope you had a lovely day. Glad to hear how well you are doing at work, and take from it what you can, making sure you're not taken advantage of.

Nice that you have the ongoing friendship with NG, but at Bttrfly says, your safety is paramount. I think it the right thing to do to make your intentions clear, and if you feel you and he want different things - ie: he's continuing the friendship in hope it might develop - you can always cool things off..

Sorry you haven't heard from your H - and do try not to mind read. He may or may not file for D. Some MLCers just don't want to have to deal with the 'business' of D and are willing to carry on in limbo. Work on the basis of what works for you, and if the current situation doesn't, you can file, or not..but please don't give away your power to him, and remember that you both have choices here...

Take care Lou, let out the grief and peace and happiness will creep up on you and bubble to the surface.

Xx

[bttrfly]

and with most men (sorry guys) they keep what they are thinking inside and dont talk about it, unlike us women who chatter on about everything and anything!

THIS!
IS SO TRUE! And is sooooooooooo frustrating!

My problem lately is that when I am with people, particularly men, I am finding that I become uncomfortable in their company and I start to miss h more.

Is that the progression - uncomfortable, then missing h? I ask because it's the same here for me. What I have started to ask myself is, what is it exactly that I miss? Do I miss him or do I miss being with someone who knows me well? Do I miss the current person with his current traits or the person he used to be? Do I miss the intimacy of a long-term relationship? Am I uncomfortable because I'm scared of letting someone get to know me and getting hurt again? I've found that answering these questions has helped me with the grief process.

I am also struggling to be around couples and listening to g/friends share their relationship woes - which I do listen to as that is what being a good friend is about.

Yes, I feel the same, with a few exceptions.

xoxoxoxo

[job]

Happy Belated Birthday! I do hope that you did something special for yourself.

[LouR]

Thank you Bttrfly, sotto and job for the birthday greetings, its was on Thursday so a working day for me. It ended up as just another day in paradise - she says sarcastically.

H did not contact me, I was genuinely disappointed that this is what we have come to. I don't know if it was a case of him not caring, not remembering (which would be a first) or not feeling he has the right to send wishes (or even say hi for that matter) after the way he has treated me. Whatever the reason, he didn't and I admit it hurt.

My birthday present was a trip to the Dr, I had got my thyroid results earlier in the week and the nurse rang me to say I need to adjust my meds ......the meds I am not on ...so when I pointed this out, she made me an appointment to see a new female dr (mine is male), the appointment was on my birthday.

Well, she is lovely, shame she is a locum and wont be at the surgery for long, but she was so sympathetic and very helpful. Basically said that she feels I am going through menopause and my high thyroid level is not helping and really both things are a "when they happen" not "if they happen" so stop the suffering and get some meds in to me. Both have the same symptoms but also clashing ones, so no wonder I feel so emotional and tired, especially with the stress I have been through with all the ups and downs with h coming and going. More bloods last week and then I see her again next week. Its a start and I hope that I will soon be feeling a little better and able to cope with life again.

s23 rang today, he wished me a belated birthday, saying that s20 reminded him but he was disorganised. A card arrived today with a gift of a flight to go see him and visit his house. I am really touched by his generosity but whilst we were talking he mentioned his dad was visiting him next week to help with some DIY, at that point all I could think about was " I can't sleep in the same bed as h has slept in, I am not even sure I can go to the same location" totally irrational and shows how emotionally a mess I am right now. I said thank you for the offer and I will give it consideration ( I did not tell him my reasons for not saying yes straight away). I know it is crazy, but I also know that I dont want to come back from a weekend feeling stressed and more upset. I am hoping that this is a temporary feeling and down to my crazy hormones that have gone haywire.

I often wonder if holding on to hope is actually hindering to moving forwards? For instance; H has shut the door on me/us, so whats the reasoning behind me keeping it ajar for him. He has made it clear that he wants nothing to do with me, 7 months of silence should be a bit of a hint!! yet I still consider the possibility he will wake up one day and realise that I am where his heart actually lies and fight to get us back ..... yeah yeah, there goes a unicorn flying past into the pink candy floss clouds. I question whether I am not accepting we are finished for good and should find a way to or whether I truly believe that he is going through something, that this is not him and he will one day wake up from his altered reality.

Its a long weekend here in NZ, I worked today (Saturday) I want the extra money, determined to get some savings behind me. Tomorrow I will catch up with guy friend and on Monday I am out to lunch and window shopping with a g/friend.

My g/friend bought me a book of NZ best road trips for my b/day so we plan to complete as many as we can, I am looking forward to planning the first one.

So that's been my week, some leaps forward and some steps backwards, the same merry dance.

xoxo

[bttrfly]

hi dearest Lou. i'm so glad you're with a new dr and she's got a good handle on what's going on with you. soon you will feel better, i'm sure!!!

i'm sorry you're having a tough time right now. just keep breathing Lou, and it will pass, I promise. You've come so far, you can get through this too.

I understand completely about the holding out hope hindering you moving forwards. I can only say that think it's all part of this process for us LBSs. I think we can only look at our feet, see where we are, look around and see the our MLCr is not any where in sight, take a deep breath and carry on with our day. So I guess what I mean is just keep focusing on the day and get through it. I don't even know if that makes sense?

Sounds like you've got a busy few days. The NZ best road trips book sounds great! xoxoxo so good to hear from you xoxoxoxo

[job]

Lou,

I am happy to read that you have a new Dr. who is going to help treat your symptoms and explained what is going on w/your health. Once the meds kick in, you should begin to feel much better and hopefully the meds will help with your emotions being on a rollercoaster.

As for holding out hope. We all do that each and every day, and it took me quite a while to actually let my xh go after his second escape. It's normal because as a lbs, we think that all is well when they make a false reconcillation and say and do the things that they think we want them to say and do. It's far more difficult to let go the second time around. You are human, you are normal and what you are experiencing is very normal.

I am sorry he didn't acknowledge your birthday, but I'm not surprised. He's truly in the tunnel and it's still all about him. Try to keep your expectations to zero and I know that this is difficult, but you have to do it or you'll continue to be disappointed and hurt by his lack of contact and empathy.

Lou, take those road trips, enjoy your life, live it to the fullest and know that no matter what happens, you are going to be just fine with or without your h in the picture.

[AndrewP]

My dear LouR - I'm so sorry I missed giving you birthday greetings! Happy belated.

I wish I could send it to you in person but there's a favourite book I would suggest you try to find and think of it as a gift from me. I don't think / hope that I'll violate any policies on the forum with this recommendation.

It's by a renowned Canadian (of course) author Robert Munsch and is called The Paper Bag Princess. I think you might be able to find it online. Yes, it's a children's book and yes you can probably read it in under 2 minutes. I hope you do.

Self-rescuing princesses are "the best".

Lots of hugs.

[mleigh4]

Happy belated birthday Lou! I hope you are feeling better soon!

M

[123Gwen]

Happy, happy belated birthday Lou. I am sorry I haven't checked on your thread but reading your latest update made me wish I could cheer you up in person. I have dealt with thyroid issues and if you toss in drops in our estrogen then it is no wonder you feel off kilter emotionally and physically. The thyroid and our hormone levels have an impact on our entire endocrine and metabolic system. Everything from whether we feel hot or cold to our sleep patterns. It can affect our hair, nails and teeth. Also things like vitamins absorbed from the food we eat and whether we are constipated. The thyroid is a delicate thermostat so please don't ever neglect your medication and treatment plan. It is not selfish to make yourself the main priority in your life. It is the best way to ensure that your family and friends are able to enjoy you healthy and strong. In return you are better able to enjoy them and/or deal with the inevitable curves thrown your way. Be self oriented Lou and don't apologize for putting yourself first.

I am sorry about H. Job always has such wonderful empathy and practical wisdom. The thing about grief and detachment is we all have our own way of working through things in our own time. It is excruciating to realize that we have to slog through it if we hope to be able to write a new chapter in our lives where we are not defined as a LBS.

It is ok to grieve Lou. You don't have to be optimistic every day. Give yourself a break and just tackle it hour by hour if you must. My only have to is the doctor because you must be your own best caregiver and advocate. Don't skimp on anything to do with your own care. I have a feeling if you are ruthless about your own care you'll be able to work through this funk in no time at all.

I love your friend's thoughtful gift. A road trip is so full of possibilities just like you!

[Sotto]

Hi Lou, I'm sorry you didn't receive birthday wishes from your H. In the 3 years since our S, XH never managed to send birthday wishes - but one year he did remember 2 weeks later and sent belated wishes and an apology..TBH, his disregard of my birthday did help me come to expect little or nothing from him and it stopped hurting so much.

I agree with others about the thyroid and I would certainly persist with that. It may be useful to read around the subject yourself too if you haven't done so already..I hope when things settle, you feel much better in yourself.

My heart leaped for you at the mention of road trips.....what a lovely present and it sounds as though some adventures lie ahead for you...and all the fun of planning these too.

Take care Lou xx

[LouR]

Hi Everyone, I just realised it’s been a while since I last updated my thread, so here I am.

Life has not been that eventful, which I suppose is good in a way. Guy friend decided to jump the friend boundary and tell me he wanted us to be more, long story short he did not accept my gentle let down and pushed it, we fell out, he became a child and pouted but eventually got over it. He made me feel uncomfortable, challenging what I was saying to him, it had hints of how H used to speak to me, making me feel guilty or sorry for him so he would get his own way. It unsettled me, but I was really pleased with myself for standing my ground and saying no, this is not what I want and you will not treat me this way. So if nothing else positive comes of h leaving me, I have learnt that I deserve to be treated with total respect, my opinion is valid and I would rather be on my own for the rest of my life than allow another tool in it!

Health wise – my thyroid blood test showed my meds were not working so my Dr has doubled the dose, I have been on the new dose for a couple of weeks now, can’t say I notice a difference but will know end of August. HRT WOW!!!! I am still getting the hot flushes but as for the crazy emotional crashes (seriously, I would cry at everything, even the evening news) they are pretty much gone, I have the odd blubbing moment but I put that down to still processing my loss of life, love and the universe as I knew it. Sleep is better, I am able to get up in the mornings without propping my eyes open with sticks and doing the slide n peel off the bed, I feel a normal functioning person. The biggest difference is my outlook on life and what has happened, I see so much more clearly now ….almost like a fog has lifted lol … whilst the sadness and loss of h is still felt I now have more focus on the future and have decided that I would like to buy my own home in the future, my Boho Beach Bach. I have created a savings plan to get a deposit together, if I stay on track then I should have enough by this time next year. It’s going to be tough and I am going to have to live on the bare minimum to achieve my goal, but the more I see my savings rise, the more I can see my fantasy becoming a reality. The good news is that not only have saved up more than what I lost when h came back for his “moment” I am already 33% of the way to my target.

I am conscious that I still enjoy life a bit, so have been doing lots of walking and have started doing my crafts again. My latest craze is Macrame, I have collected some drift wood from the beach to make a macrame headboard for my bed. I am also looking forward to getting out in my tent once summer arrives.

Work is going ok, I have been doing lots of extra hours and shifts; the extra pay goes straight in to my savings. Guy friend has been ok to work with despite all that has happened between us and I will be getting more help front of house in the spring which will good.

Both s are good, s20 did not make it past his 90 day trial, apparently the boss does this and does not keep trainees past the trial time so he does not have to pay them more. It’s a pain for me financially but I am hopeful he will get another job soon. He went to see his dad for 4 days and came back wanting to move …. It’s the same every time he visits him …his dad treated him to a activity filled weekend and bought him some new clothes. Shame he has not stepped up to help s20 out while he is unemployed ….oh wait, that is my job …hmmm.

As for H, well it’s been 9 months and nothing from him. I occasionally wonder how we have got here; from friends to lovers to life partners to non-existent, as it seems that I now no longer exist. Do I still have the fantasy of him waking up one day to realise who he walked away from and fight for me – Yep – but I am realistic and my expectation of that ever happening is a big zero. I can’t see how it is even possible now, he has made it clear that I have no place in his life, not even an acknowledgement as the mother of his children, so sad.

So that’s really about all from me, I am moving along, focused on saving for my beach house, keeping myself to myself and starting to find inner peace.

I am still reading along and post when I feel I have something useful to contribute. I hope everyone is doing ok, love and hugs to you all xoxo

[bttrfly]

Lou my darling!! I've missed you!

He made me feel uncomfortable, challenging what I was saying to him, it had hints of how H used to speak to me, making me feel guilty or sorry for him so he would get his own way. It unsettled me, but I was really pleased with myself for standing my ground and saying no, this is not what I want and you will not treat me this way. So if nothing else positive comes of h leaving me, I have learnt that I deserve to be treated with total respect, my opinion is valid and I would rather be on my own for the rest of my life than allow another tool in it!

Honestly, Lou as I read this I got chills. I think this person was put in your life to show you how far you've come on this front. Well done!!! You ABSOLUTELY deserve total respect! While it can't have been pleasant, I'm so happy for you to have had this experience so you can see how much you've grown from this horrible experience we are all going through.

I'm so happy you're working with the doctor on addressing the thyroid issues. I'm glad the HRT is helping as well. I'm so glad you feel like you can function normally. I've worried about you xoxo

I'm thrilled to read you have this goal of owning your own beach house, and even more delighted to read that you're 1/3 of the way towards your deposit. Have you read back in your threads to see how far you've come?

Macrame, huh? I don't know why but I got this idea reading about your macrame and driftwood project that you might be able to sell some of this work and add that $$$ to the savings account. What do you think?

And if it's successful enough, it could turn into a regular income stream for you!

I'm glad it's not awkward at work with guy friend. That tells me even more that this was a test for you Lou and you've passed with flying colors!!

I'm sorry about s20's employer. He will find something soon. Maybe it wouldn't be bad for him to go live with his dad for a bit, see that the grass isn't greener past the holiday.

In terms of exh, I know what you mean. How did we get here? How does one spend more than half one's life with another person, have children with them, finish each other's sentences and end up here of all places?! I'm grateful I'm not that kind of person and I would guess you feel the same.

Do I still have the fantasy of him waking up one day to realise who he walked away from and fight for me – Yep – but I am realistic and my expectation of that ever happening is a big zero. I can’t see how it is even possible now, he has made it clear that I have no place in his life, not even an acknowledgement as the mother of his children, so sad.

Yes, I know this well. It's not so much a fantasy for me as it is the knowledge that at some point in the future my exh will realize what he's done but it will be far too little too late in my case. I cannot go back to that existence. I'm so much more aware of what I want in a relationship, what I will and won't put up with. Sometimes knowing what you don't want is just as important as knowing what you do want.

And, in the spirit of DB, I have to also point out that we don't know how your h feels one way or another and we shouldn't assume.

I do want to ask, and hope it's not intrusive. You're saving and working so hard so you can buy your home, yet you are still legally married. Will he have any legal claim to your assets? How does it work in NZ? Please check into that. You've worked too hard to have to split anything, you know what I mean?

I am moving along, focused on saving for my beach house, keeping myself to myself and starting to find inner peace.

I'm so happy to read this. I've missed you my friend. Much love, hugs, health and happiness to you. Don't be a stranger! Mwah :*
xoxoxoxo

[AndrewP]

LouR! Lovely to hear from you. You sound so much stronger and focused than you were even a few months ago. Good on you too for knowing your boundaries with your guy. It's probably been a very good experience for you in many ways even if it was difficult at the end.

Hoping to hear more stories from you including tales of ambergris!

[LouR]

Hey Bttrfly, I miss catching up with you too. Been a bit selfish recently and the focus has been all on me, I have needed to do that, see what I had become in my marriage and process all of that, then start to change my mindset so I will never go back to being that person again.

I do want to ask, and hope it's not intrusive. You're saving and working so hard so you can buy your home, yet you are still legally married. Will he have any legal claim to your assets? How does it work in NZ? Please check into that. You've worked too hard to have to split anything, you know what I mean

Not an intrusive question at all, its good to be open about things on here, that way we can all learn. My understanding is that as we have been separated for the statutory 2yrs and the house will be in my name only and I will be paying the mortgage from my own personal account then he has no claim on it. However, if he did come back and I allowed him to contribute to the mortgage or the upkeep of the house and he can prove it then yes he can claim he has a share as we are not divorced. However as this option is so unlikely to happen I am not really concerned about it. But, nearer to the time of me being in a position to buy I will go an see my solicitor again and clarify all this, as if it means me filing for d to protect my home then I will of course do it.

My g/friend said the other day that it sounds like h has traits of a narcissist, she is not the first to have said it, but at the time I did not want to listen. But looking back over our marriage she may be right - everything we did was for his gain, if I did not agree with it he would either manipulate me with false promises or make me feel incredibly guilty for saying no, the worst one was telling me I am very negative person, always thinking the worst will happen and should go and seek help, when in actual fact I was just using past history to see that his promises would be broken, the project/purchase would cost us more than we could afford, or that I would end up feeling like I lost out. Her theory is that he loved the challenge to change my mind and keep me under his control, so once I got to the point where I did not have the energy to stand back up to fight another round anymore, I became no longer challenging and fun to play with.

All my g/friends are worried that as soon as I show that I am independent and moving forward with my life, buying my own home and being happy and content again, he will re surface as I will have become a potential player in his game again. I am very well aware that this all could be true and will take measures to make sure that if he does re enter my life it will be on my terms .... to be honest, the longer we are apart the more I dont want him back, causing my life and heart grief.

AndrewP - great to hear from you! Thank you, yes I do feel so much clearer at the moment, long may it last huh. I know these things go in cycles so am trying to enjoy this one while its here. Finding that piece of ambergris would certainly buy me my beach house, so as its a beautiful (but very cold) day here I will be off hunting again later, taking my flask of tea and sandwiches .....oh how British of me ha ha ha

Love and Hugs to you all xoxo

[OwnIt]

Lou, I read your thread a while ago. My you have endured a lot. My H is a huge narcissist and the things you describe here are absolutely what I have experienced. He has told me time and again that I am negative and he is so positive about everything. Although at present I have stood up to him and he is pretending to be overwhelmed to try to get me to back down. The control thing is also huge with mine. I fear the day he tries to come back again. I just have to keep making myself stronger.

[LouR]

Hi OwnIt, thank you for dropping by.

I am so sad to read you have been under the spell of a narcissist, I feel the first step in gaining back your power and strength is realising that this is what he is and how he operates, which it sounds like you have done. I too am a little concerned at how I will deal with it if my h should ever come my way again, he is a pro at what he does, so I try to keep reminding myself of all that I gave up during our m and then I remind myself of all the things I now have (more about myself than possessions) and the dream of owning my own home and doing what I want with it and filling it with the things I want in it and then put in the image of him swanning in, doing his voodoo mindtrick on me and losing it all ....well that has made me so much more stronger and focused on not allowing that to happen. Its the power of NO and if he does not like it then fine, he can go play with someone else because I am doing just fine on my own thank you very much.

I think the thing when living with a narcissist is we lose the energy to say no, beaten down until its no longer worth the effort to stand up for what we want anymore. We know its not what we want for ourselves, we know what the outcome will be when we do it their way, yet we are suppressed so much for so long, and we are filled with intense fear that they will leave (because they manage to make you completely dependant on them) that you submit to whatever they want. When my h walked away he gave my freedom, my thoughts and decisions back to me, it has just taken me a while ....ok a couple of yrs ... to figure that out! But I have got there ....ok, I will say it, it just took TIME ha ha ha oh how I despised that word a few yrs ago!

I know that I have a lot of hard times ahead, but I now also know that I have a lot of good times ahead of me too, so its a case of letting each day come along and see where it takes me, knowing I can handle anything that is thrown my way.

So in my rambling way I am trying to say stay strong and keep reminding yourself that what you want for yourself, how you want to live the rest of your life is important and valid, no one .....absolutley no one .... has the right to make to change your mindset, if they do, then walk away from them as you will be fine and in the long run happier for cutting those people out of your life.

You are amazing, thank you for sharing with me. Love and Hugs xoxo

[bttrfly]

many people have told me that my exh has narcissistic tendencies (well, why wouldn't he? my ex-mil if the very definition of a narcissist, and he seems to model her a bit). Lou, yours left when you lost the energy. Mine left when I finally snapped and said, "Enough! You will NOT treat me this way any longer."

With distance and (sorry sweetums) time I've begun to realize how much ptsd I have. It seems that the more detached I am, the more awake I become. Part of that process is this growing awareness of the very real symptoms of PTSD that I need to work through to heal. Last year at this time I would tear the head off of any guy who tried to bully me. I don't seem to go to extremes any longer, thankfully.

I sense that might be the case for many of us in this situation, that when the buttons installed by the MLCr are pushed, all h3&& breaks loose.

I know that I have a lot of hard times ahead of me too, so its a case of letting each day come along and see where it takes me, knowing I can handle anything that is thrown my way.

I dunno Lou - how about you just have Time, not good or hard, simply Time. It's your gift from this. You've certainly used it wisely, my friend. I know you will continue to do so xoxoxo

I'm glad you will take steps to make sure that what you've earned stays yours exclusively. That makes me very happy!

[OwnIt]

Lou, I think they have many different skills. Mine was quite passive appearing, but would absolutely manipulate my emotions to get what he wanted me to do, while making it seem I was getting my own way. Even with the kids. He made me do everything for them and when I asked for help he said but you enjoy those things I don't. It is torture for me so you should do it. I think it is important to know that they will change tactics when the first doesn't work.

I knew that he was trying to make me sell the house to move near him. I knew it had nothing to do with money. He pretended it did of course, and then he pretended it was about seeing S all the time, and that it was about knowing I was safe, and the city he picked was so superior, etc. He tried to be threatening (big scary talk of lawyers, to a lawyer no less), kind, concerned, and now of course he is so depressed that we are moving away, everything is going wrong). If yours hasn't changed up the strategies on you, just know that he will.

Great stuff as always bttrfly.

[HaWho]

It's nice to hear an update from you. Good on you for putting some goals into place.

And it's funny how once you get that you've been given the gift of time, you can really accelerate the process of moving forward.

[LouR]

Thanks for dropping in bttrfly, OwnIt and HaWho,

I spoke to soon ...or maybe not .. have had an overthinking moment but it lost its intensity quickly after a sharp duh, come on girl, get a grip conversation with myself.

So this is what has happened - I got home last night and s21 said he needed to talk to me. He told me that he wanted to give me notice that he and g/friend have decided to move to his dads town (on the South Island) staying with h until they find jobs and have saved enough to rent a place of their own. I asked if this was his d suggestion and s21 replied that h was keen for him to move his way saying that there are more job opportunities and of course he would like to see more of him.

At first I thought "that's ok, h will have to put up with paying to keep them for a change, ha ha, wonder how long that will last" but then on thinking about it further, especially after the latest conversations we have had on my thread, I started to question h motives and the overthinking crept it - so, what is his game? Is he hoping this will get a reaction out of me, enough to contact him about it, making the first move and breaking the silence between us? He knows very well that I wont live on the opposite island and so far away from both my s, so will move nearer to them, which gets me on the same island as him; is this a him regaining control tactic?

Or, is this simply just a dad wanting to have his s near him and did not think about the affect it would have on me as I am no longer a feature in his thoughts or cares.

As I wrote earlier, overthinking craziness and actually who cares, it does not matter what or why h has instigated this move, it only matters what I decided to do, for me. So nothing has changed as far as my plans go, actually it benefits me as I will rent somewhere smaller and be able to save more towards my house and then when I buy next year it will be near both of my s so I dont have to worry about leaving one of them behind.

Its an example of the affect he still has on me, the ability to raise a reaction despite all the time apart, but its also an example of how much I have changed in how I deal with challenges as in the past I would have been action before thinking, which only ever ended in tears.

[bttrfly]

Well done my love!

I don't know why but back in an early post of yours when you said S21 had visited or was going to visit dad and you hoped he'd move there so h could pay for him I did have a feeling this would happen.

As you say, more streamlined lifestyle for you, more savings towards your goal.

xoxoxoxo
Mwah! :*
{{{{{hugs}}}}}

[kml]

Can I just say, you're doing awesome? Yes, a momentary slip into mind-reading, but otherwise great.

I'm glad your ex will have the financial responsibility for a while, and you can focus on your savings plan. Did you ever look at the mrmoneymustache website? A great resource for frugality and achieving financial goals like yours.

Do you need to move to a smaller place, or could you save more money by staying in your two bedroom and getting a roommate to pay half the rent? Just a thought.

[AndrewP]

LouR - I know that I am jealous still of any interaction between my kids and their mother. I think see that or something similar in what you posted. What I keep telling myself is that it doesn't matter.

Just a perspective. I presume that you can't know for sure who instigated the idea for your S to move nor what the motives are. It has nothing to do with me and this probably has absolutely nothing to do with you. I know that we get paranoid especially when having even peripheral interaction with someone who hurt us so very badly but we just have to work on letting it go. Our children are adults and make their own choices regardless of what our opinions or feelings are. I know that my own kids are pretty discreet and kind and are great people and I'm sure your's are too. They understand about your pain and have sympathy for it but can't let that drive their own separate lives.

Imagine instead that he's going off to stay with someone you used to know but don't have anything to do with anymore. If it was your second-cousin's uncle's brother-in-law then you wouldn't be trying to read anything into it would you (I know that's a stretch).

One interesting phrase that I have heard a lot of divorced parents use is "my kid's dad" etc. It provides some distance and context I think.

So - wish him and his GF well with "his father". Make sure he knows what ambergris looks like since I believe there is more on the South island and demand that he write or call at least once a week like the great Mother that you are.

((LouR))

[LouR]

Hi everyone, I will write a longer update soon but just at the moment I am having a struggle and I don't want to bother my g/friends with it, I already know what they will say and I agree with them, yet the internal struggle with head and heart is still present in my thoughts.

It's H's birthday tomorrow - 80 % of me says leave well alone, if he really wanted to hear from me he would instigate it and if I open communication I most likely would be opening up a can of worms .....painful ones where only I get hurt ...again, plus keeping my expectations at zero of a reply, a nice reply, is easier said than done. But there is 20% of me that feels I should send him greetings, just wish him a nice day, no more, I genuinely do wish him a nice day, and part of me thinks back to the last time he went dark and when he finally did contact me he said he had wanted to for months but did not feel he had the right to do so, so this may be the excuse he needs to open the channel again.

I know I am not ready to deal with what may happen either way, whether it be ignored, him tell me something it don't want to know, or even if he uses this to reach out, I don't think I am able to deal with it without becoming an emotional stressed out wreck again - I know this, yet that 20% of me, the little voice in my head, keeps saying " do it, don't sink to his level, there is no harm wishing him a nice day and showing you are thinking about him, he may need to hear that right now"

i know there is no advice you can give me, only I can decide what to do and deal with how I feel as a result of it. I am so weary of this mlc sadness creeping in at every opportune moment, reminders of what once was. This is the first time I have struggled with to contact him or not - up till now it's been resolute not.

Thanks for listening to me, I just needed to get it out of my head and know that here is a safe place to do it without judgement of how I am feeling right now.

Love and hugs to you all xoxo

[Treasur]

You could flip a coin?? Probably trust your gut and don't think too much. If you know why you want to do it and it doesn't matter that much, drop a text. If you're agonising about it, probably best to do nothing because it means you're not detached enough?

[AndrewP]

LouR - I want you to ask yourself a very tough question. What is your motivation for reaching out to him?

We all wish for the past that thought we had. I worry that this would just be a piece of string that you are trying to tie to him. If you send the message, you'll expect a response. A response or lack of response with send you in a different direction.

Letting go is so very very hard but sometimes we need to do it to save ourselves. If you can get through this without grabbing that thread you'll be more free.

(((LouR)))

[Sotto]

Hi Lou, first I would say prioritise your own wellbeing - and if it messes with your mind, maybe step back and let life unfold as it will.

Second, I would say, be the woman you want to be - and if you want to send birthday wishes, do it and let it go. Don't over think it. You sent the wishes. You wanted to. He then did or didn't respond - that's up to him..

In my sitch, it kind of tapered off. Year one a nice card, year two - hadn't planned to do anything, but XH emailed me the night prior and I was able to send B'day wishes incidentally in my reply. Year three no wishes. But then my XH did pretty much vanish...

Hope this helps anyway Lou xx

[bttrfly]

love when you don't know what to do, do nothing except sit quietly and wait for the answers. much love and {{{{{hugs}}}}} xoxoxo

[OwnIt]

I'm with bttrfly on this one. Every time I've made some approach I hesitated about I've been bitten and wished I'd kept quiet.

[kml]

Lou -
First, sounds like you are hoping this would reopen a dialogue. Don't. Doing it with ANY expectations is a mistake,

Second - what did he do for YOUR last birthday? And the one before that? If he did nothing, don't feel like you have to.

Third - if you MUST acknowledge it - mail a happy belated birthday card (less likely to result in a phone call or email.)

[kml]

Paper card. Snail mail.

[HaWho]

Lou - just want to say that in general, try not to be too hard on yourself. I notice that oftentimes you are awfully tough on yourself.

If you choose not to reach out to him, this doesn't necessarily mean you are stooping to his level.

If he felt he did not have the right to reach out to you, then in my opinion, it is up to him to make himself worthy of doing so. It's not your problem to mind read that and then fix it for him.

These are just instances where I see you being very hard on yourself.

And I ditto Sotto on her message.

Thinking of you.

[LouR]

Thank you thank you for the outpouring of love support and advice from you all, I am pleased that I reached out.

I didn't send birthday wishes; I woke up this morning after a few odd dreams and decided that actually I didn't feel the need anymore and tonight after reading all your lovely messages to me I still feel ok that I didn't acknowledge his day.

HaWho, you are probably right, I am very hard on myself, I think partly because I hate that my marriage has failed, I don't do failure very well and always strive to make things right when I have, and partly because I am still holding on to having a family as now all I have left in life is my two boys and I don't want them to ever feel they have to look after me because I am alone now. This was not their fault.

I know that whilst I would have liked things to be different they aren't, it's sad and I do miss him, but nowadays I feel much calmer and like having my own space and thoughts.

In other news - work is going well, really busy and I have been asked to become the front desk, showroom and party shop supervisor, i have already been doing the role for the past few months and have built a really good team but this makes it more official. My changes and hard work have been recognised and i feel good about that.

S20 is still determined to move to his dad's, he leaves end of October when he gets his driving licence back. Good luck to him and his dad !! So the flat hunt for me has begun, there are a few options so I am confident I won't be homeless.

I have taken a couple of days off work and booked my flights to go and visit s23 for a weekend end of September, I have not seen him for a very long time so i am looking forward to spending some time with him.

I had the Drs today for a meds review, my latest result came in fine so for now my thyroid is happy and I can stay on a low thyroxine dose, I can also stay on the ERT for a couple of years safely, next check is in 6 months time unless I start to get the symptoms again. So that is really good news and I do feel so much better for my levels being right again - it's been a long time coming !!

Guy friend is being needy and driving me a little crazy but I have stayed consistent with my message and we now only see each other at work. Shame as he was fun to hang out with, but I really don't want to lead him on or cause any confusion so it's for the best. I went out with another guy friend ( he really is only a friend, he is in to rock chicks so I am safe ha ha ) we went to a bagpipe concert, was a fun evening and something different lol. Next we are going to a Saturday Night Fever evening, anywhoo, my workmate mentioned the "date" in front of guy friend and oh my, you would have thought his world had just ended, he brooded on it for days before asking me about it, wanting to know if i am seeing someone and where does that leave him - boy oh boy, how do I pick em'.

The days continue to move along, I keep breathing, wondering what normal is, maybe this is it and I don't recognise it as its been so long.

So that's all from me, nothing exciting really, I haven't won the lotto, met a hot "normal" guy , discovered how to go back in time or how to see in to the future, but that's ok, my story has a lot more "plot twists" to come I am certain of that !!

Much love and hugs to you all xoxo

[bttrfly]

gee babe this seems pretty darn exciting to me!

Going to see Son
Looking for your Chickpad
Being recognized at work for how awesome you are
Testing the waters in a safe way with friend 'dates'
Knowing what you DON'T want in a NG
Not falling into what could be an old pattern by contacting exh on his birthday

.... that's a lot of growth right there baby cakes and I'm so very proud of you !!!!

xoxoxoxo
you're my hero(ine)!

[LouR]

Hi everyone, been a while. It's a long weekend public holiday here so i intend to catch up with how everyone is doing, 4 days off ....kind of.

For the past few months life has been about work and not much else, I have been working 6-7 day weeks and am really tired, so this long weekend is very welcome.

A few weeks ago I flew down to South Island to see S23, spent 4 really lovely days with him and his g/friend. He talked about wanting me to move nearer to him, saying s20 has had me long enough, now it's his turn awwww. Where He lives is a really beautiful part of the world and I can see myself living in the area, so I am thinking perhaps 1 more summer season where I am and then move nearer to S23 after Easter next yr .....but for those who know me here, my plans change often !! All part of the self discovery journey I suppose.

S23 did bring up the topic of his dad, it was hard to hear some of it but I was happy that he felt he could talk to me openly. Things are not all rosy between them, s is unhappy about how his dad treats him, feels at the bottom of his priority list once again. He said they did not speak for a while and then his d visited him and broke down about how he has messed up again and it kills him to think he has lost his sx2 by his actions, s23 decided to give him another chance but since then it has not been plain sailing and now both s tell me that if h gets another woman and expect them to play happy families with them then they are done with him, as neither of them want a repeat of the last OW treatment, it's sad but I respect that they are old enough to make up their own minds.

S20 moved down to his dad's last weekend, s23 and I predict 6-8 week before he is back lol. The move down went ok but 4 days later, totally out of the blue h emailed me ...........

For those who don't know my story and are reading this; h walked out on me for the second time 11 months ago and he has not spoken to me since that day.

His email was regarding s20 and saying that things have not got off to a good start, s failed to get up and go to a course, has not made any effort to job hunt and has a terrible attitude. He went on to say that he wanted me to know that he did not encourage or instigate this move only offered support and a room to get him started off. He said it's purely selfish but as he is already the anti-Christ he did not want me to think he was deliberately causing me more hurt by talking him in to the move.

He then added a bit of "hope your well " stuff and signed off, Love Me x as he always has in the past.

As you can imagine it was a bit of a shock to see it in my inbox. Felt very queasy opening it, waiting for the hurt to jump out at me.

I wrote a reply, slept on it and then as I was still happy with what I had written so I sent it. Basically started of jokey about s20 and then told him that I did not presume he had instigated the move, I feel it came from s having had a good time when he was down with him last and H's crazy female friend meddling by getting s to move down as she felt that s and h needed to be nearer to each other.

I wrote" I want to correct something you wrote - you are not and never have been the anti Christ, I do believe I said to you that I will always be here for you if you need me, I really mean that. Sure I feel deep sadness that we have ended up this way, I never imagined we would, I miss you from my life, I have gone from being your world to non exsitent, that has been hard to come to terms with and honestly I still don't understand any of this, but tis what it tis. We will always be connected by our children and even though they are older, if you ever have concerns you want to share I am happy to listen.

I signed off that I hope this finds him well and he has got to grips with his job now.

He replied later that morning a long email, chatty about his job and saying how annoyed he is to know his female friend has meddled in something she knows nothing about and that he does not speak to her very often these days so he is not sure why she has done this. He then thanked me for correcting him about his anti Christ comment, that he did not imagine or expect that I would stand by my statement still. Then he continued:

" my turn for a correction. You have not gone from my world to non exsitent, not in any way. You are in my thoughts regularly, I care how you are, how things are going for you. I'm aware my actions suggest otherwise, but it's the truth. You have been a part of my life longer than anyone outside of my parents/brother, that won't ever go away.

He then mentioned finances, to clarify what he still owes me. Signed off as usual.

I replied this evening with " thank you for your correction on my comment, you are in my thoughts regularly too. Thank you for breaking the scilence, it's been genuinely nice hearing from you" I continued with answering the finance questions and ended it on a light note about s20.

I don't expect anything more from him, it actually has given me a little peace, I got to say to him what I wanted him to know and now I feel happier in myself. I am also pleased that the scilence has been broken, it's still only him that can contact me, but at least if I do have a major problem with one of the boys it won't be so awkward contacting him if the situation requires it.

I know that he really did not need to contact me about s20, there has been plenty go on with both boys over the past year that he did not feel the need to talk to me about, I am not daft enough to think this s purely about s, I don't know what his motives are yet, good or bad, they have yet to be revealed. Perhaps it's testing the waters to see how much I hate him and will I drag his backside through court if he files for d, or maybe he is having a lonely moment, or even just felt the need to check up on me, who knows, what I do know is that I have been at this long enough now to not read anything in to anything that comes from his direction!!

So your up to date with my world, I have nothing planned for my long weekend, I was going away camping but unfortunately staffing problems at work means I have to pop in to work for a couple hrs on sat and sun to get some balloon orders ready.

Love and hugs to you all, I will catch up with you at the weekend xxx

[AndrewP]

LouR - So nice to hear from you. You sound tired but getting more whole in yourself.

Being as I'm the one with the S who moved in and then doesn't do anything (he's getting better at it) I can understand your H's confusion at his situation. He may well have been hoping for some solid instructions, for you to take charge and make it all better. Good on you for leaving them be. They're both big boys and need to be able to deal with things themselves.

Your H also seems to be tugging on your apron strings and saying "don't forget about me - I'm still here". Remember - it's your choice on this. You've not completely let him go by filing for divorce. Doing that would be very very tough. I know.

Keep living your life and don't be a stranger. I'm glad you stopped by.

((LouR))

[Sotto]

Hi Lou, nice to hear from you and glad to hear you're generally doing well. I hope work settles down and you get more balance in your life soon. I've been through a phase of working flat out this year and I'm enjoying some more time off now. The extra income certainly comes in handy though - and may help with your moving plans if that's what you decide to do.

I agree entirely with Andrew P and I think it's a little 'I'm still out here' nudge from your H. I think your responses were fine and I think letting it go for now is the right thing to do. If he wants to be back in touch again at some point soon, he will be - particularly as your responses were kind and supportive.

Take care Lou - hugs and best wishes from me xx

[LouR]

Hi AndrewP and Sotto, thank you for dropping by and giving me your support.

H's email was very similar to the one he sent to me to open a channel the first time around, started off as an update about s(then)18 and continued on as chatty and a tester sentence about how I feel about him at the moment. So I have been here before - only last time I hung on every word and over analysed it looking for all the possible hidden meanings and blindly ran down the path pushing it in all directions ..... Well you know the result .....

This time I have spent far less energy on it, yes it was a jolt and I did feel queasy at opening the email, it also raised a few emotions, but generally I feel ok and have not spent my precious time and energy reading anything in to it. It has however, given me the opportunity to say what I have wanted him to know, and I learnt something I did not know, it served my own purpose, so in that respect I have used the emails to my own advantage.

Andrew: yes I am very tired, mentally more than physically. We are understaffed at work so I have been left on my own to cope a lot, I feel overworked, underpaid and underappreciate, but I feel loyalty to my clients so I would like to stick it out until their events are over if I can. I have been thinking of maybe finishing at Easter and taking 6 weeks to travel (camp) down through NZ to where my eldest s is while the weather is still good enough, His new house has a sleep out so I can use it as a base until I find a job and home. It's a thought and one that I can focus on to keep me moving forward.

Happy Friday Everyone xx

[OwnIt]

Lou,

Your H seems to play out what we read about how they try to come back. Maybe one of these days he will get it right (if you are still up for it). I hope things get better at work and that you are able to keep this stuff at an arm's length. This time of year makes me suspicious. I'm seeing increased "interest" in my child that has me concerned, especially with the holidays coming up. Every time he leaves again my S is devastated.

[LouR]

Hi OwnIt, thank you for dropping by and for your support.

I have no idea what prompted H's contact, if it was for a reason he will make it known when he is ready.

My children are older so they have their own independent relationship with their dad that I don't get involved in, so holidays are not an issue for me, I am lucky in that respect, I am sad to read that your h causes your s confusion and hurt with his bouncing around, all you can really do is be your s constant and give him the stability and love of at least one parent who he can rely on. He will really thank you and respect you for it in the long term,

Love and hugs to you xoxo

[bttrfly]

LOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!

{{{{{{{{{ BIG GINORMOUS MASSIVE HUGS!!!! }}}}}}}}}

Wow have I MISSED YOU!

Please get some rest sweetie. I am glad you took some time off and went to visit your boy and his gf. I'm sure it was hard to hear about h but you seem to be doing so well xoxo I'm glad!

as for H's emails ... hmmmm. What I love most about this is that even if he's temperature testing, you aren't playing. You're communicating on your own terms and I love that.

Do take some time to rest, even if it means sleeping a day away Lou. I can't wait for your next update! I've missed you my friend xoxoxoxo welcome back

[LouR]

I'm going to title this entry - de ja vu ....but have I learnt any lessons ...

I will get to the title further along, first an update of my ever evolving crazy head ....is mlc catching ?

I had a really lovely weekend, lots of downtime to really think about where I am going in my life. It's all well and good telling people "if you don't like your life, change it" but then to not take my own advise is so hypocritical of me, so after h contacting me last week and seeing how easy we went back to comfortable chatting with each other, it bothered me emencely that I have learnt no lessons from round 2 and was heading for yet another fall ...... And then realised that because this notion was even in my head meant I have actually learnt a lesson !! Are you still following me lol.

So I spent the weekend getting annoyed with myself that I am an intelligent woman, why can't I figure this out. One thing lead to another and whilst walking on the beach I came to the conclusion that if h is setting me up for something nasty I want to have something to be focusing on, if he is wanting to see if he can once again come back in to my life, I want something other than him to focus on. So today I went to see my boss and told him that I would like to finish work at the end of the season (Easter) as I want to do some travel. He was so happy for me and said absolutely fine, and whilst I will be a huge loss to the team and my reference will have tear stains on it, he is really excited for me, he also added that if I want to return for the following summer season i will always have a job with him. What a lovely thing to say and such a great offer, it means that I have a back up plan if I need it.

So then to the next part of my plans, travel. I have enough saved now in my house fund ( which I realise now is really only a dream and the years I will be living frugally to save for a house is years i am not living me) to go on a trip, so that's what I have started planning. It will keep the focus on me and as soon as have decided a route - currently Melbourne Australia, New York, England/Europe and back in time for s23 wedding end of August- I will buy the tickets and that locks me in to going, no matter what happens I will be going.

H emailed me again today, the last emails we exchanged last week he mentioned going for an interview as he is unhappy at his current place and he asked me to confirm how much he owes me and said not to get excited, he hasn't won the lottery or anything, he has finally paid off his cc from while he was off work and is trying to get his finances straight. I replied to him good luck for the interview, confirmed how much he owes me and congratulated him on the cc and then requested that he does not mention to either s that we have been in contact as after all this time of not talking to each other it will only confuse them and they have been through enough.

Today he emailed me to let me know he got the job and starts in 4 weeks time. He agrees with me on staying quiet to the boys and hopes I had a nice long weekend.

I wished him congratulations on the job, said giving notice must be catching as I have done the same today, only mine is 5 months and yes i had a lovely weekend thank you. I asked him if he had a nice weekend too and said I have heard he is a fitness freak these days and dragged s20 up a hill for 2 hrs, and how that must have been fun ha ha ha. He replied that he is far from a fitness freak, probably the unfittest he has been since he had the time off but hopes to get out more now the evenings are lighter again. He also said " so are you saying you've given 5 months notice ? " to which I replied " yes, it sees them through the season and gives them time to get used to the loss of their superstar ....

So to de ja vu ..... When h contacted me first time around and I was in Uk he used the excuse of s(then)18 update, asked in a round about way if I hate him or is his contact welcome. Then came emails telling me he has changed job, his new contact info should I need to get in touch and chatty chatty I miss this. Bizarrely this is exactly what I am seeing again,update on s20, am I the devil I don't want to hurt you more, and now I have changed jobs, here is what I am doing, how are you, what are you doing, blah blah blah.

Has me on my guard, whats he up to ..... Hmmmmmm.

Well, back to thinking about a good trip to take, I can't believe I just took the first step, but I am very pleased with myself for doing so.

I hope everyone had a good weekend. Love and hugs to you all xoxo

[job]

Lou,

Congratulations on the first step to taking your life back! It's a new page in your life's book and I can't wait to read the entire story of your upcoming travels.

As for your xh, he's still attempting to see if you are right where he left you. Unfortunately, he can't seem to bring himself to the point of cutting the last binding thread to your apron. He knows he's messed up, and yet, he still hasn't figured out how to pick up the key and turn the lock in the door, step over the threshold and do the hard, but necessary work to earn your trust and respect once again. If, and when he does figure himself out, he going to discover a new Lou who has grown by leaps and bounds.

As for figuring out what he's up to...leave it be for now. The future isn't ours to figure out...it will reveal itself in time. Just enjoy today for it is a gift and one that you do not want to pass you by.

[AndrewP]

I will get to the title further along, first an update of my ever evolving crazy head ....is mlc catching ?

My therapist once told me that if I was asking the question then the answer was no.

I don't always make wise choices. I sometimes make pretty darned bad ones like staying up until close to midnight last Sunday with a bottle of wine and feeling sorry for myself. I do keep an eye on myself to watch out for the crazy. I try to recognize the bad choices I make and strive to do better. I don't always succeed.

It's called living.

[bttrfly]

so it seems h is on the wash, rinse, repeat cycle.

You, my dear, are wise to his MLC ways and are not falling for it. I love it. Well done!

The work sitch: awesome! so proud of you Lou. Have you looked back at your early threads? Remember? Can you believe how far you've come in such a short time? You truly are a superstar my friend xoxoxo and I couldn't be more pleased for you!

Ahem, trips, ahem, states, ahem Boston, ahem cough cough cough

love you Lou! xoxoxoxo mwah

[LouR]

Thank you so much for the comments and advice.

Job: As always I thank you from the bottom of my heart for the wisdom and support you offer me, i value your words and knowledge so much. I try hard not to guess what the latest reappearance of h is about, we talk here about having zero expectations, and honesty he has me more suspicious and on my guard than any expectations of any reconciliation behaviour from him, but having said that I have felt happy and an inner calmness since he started talking to me again, something I have not felt in a very long time. And who wouldn't want to live the fantasy of someone fighting for you ..... Yeah, I am aware it's fantasy ..... So for now I am enjoying this break in my sadness and using it to help me move forward with my plans.

Andrew: when I read your post I wanted to jump through the screen and give you a big hug. Your honesty about how hard this journey is, the cycles we go through is a credit to you, you have shown me that what I feel and think is normal and that I am not the only one. We all make choices, i have made plenty of doozy ones along the way, I would not say they are bad ones (although the hangover the following day sometimes tells me otherwise lol), just a lapse of judgement on occasion .... If you have not ended up in the emergency room or woken up with a new tattoo of naked lady across your chest your doing very well my friend xxx

Bttrfly my darling g/friend, you know I would come say hi if the powers that be would allow it, but rules are rules .....sadly .... But hey, you never know, fate may one day help us make virtual in to real, I would really love that.

Nothing much happened today, work was busy, I signed up for the Pink RIbbon Walk this weekend, my boss has agreed to pay our registration and sponsor those of us that are doing it. It will be a bit of fun and an excuse to dress up in something daft. I have a Halloween Balloon install at the local movie theatre next week so I have to come up with something for that this week, it gives my creativeness some time out to play.

My boss is very excited about my trip and said today " how much fun would it be to walk in to the airport and take the first plane you could get s ticket for, I wonder where you would end up" what a great idea!! Unfortunately with visa and immigration laws nowadays I don't think that game would be possible, maybe throw a dart at the atlas and see where it lands .......

Love and hugs to you all xoxo

[bttrfly]

I know my friend but I can dream, can't I?? xoxoxo

[LouR]

Hi everyone,

Been a couple of weeks since I last posted and a few ups and downs along the way.

I still feel ok about my decision to leave my job, I have spent time mapping a route around NZ and have been looking at what beaches and walks are along the way. It needs tweaking but I have plenty of time to do this and it gives me something to focus on while other areas of life are hitting bumps.

S20 g/friend left to join him this week, the house is quiet .....and tidy .... I am enjoying having my own space, but it's early days so maybe the novelty will wear off !

I spoke to s23 yesterday, he had been to visit his dad and brother at the weekend, seems it was a quiet night and all in bed by 9.30pm as S20 had been out partying the night before and apparently h now goes to bed at 9pm. He said that h spoke to him about s20 upcoming 21st birthday and said he was going to contact me so s23 wanted to pre warn me that h was going to contact (he doesn't know we have already had contact). I was a bit annoyed at this as we have agreed that we will not tell the boys about any contact between us unless it becomes a regular thing as they know it's been a year since we last spoke and I don't want to cause them any more confusion, h agreed with this decision, so why he felt the need to tell s23 he was going to contact me - and about something that is not until January and nothing to do with s23 - I have no idea. It was enough of a concern for s to let me know though, which is exactly why I did not want them being involved.

S20 rang at the weekend, he started telling me about living with h, says h is very quiet these days, keeps himself to himself, walks a lot, does not see much of the friends he made when first left, the partying has stopped and he is concentrating on paying his debts off and saving. Sounds like he has settled down and is happy, looking forward to starting his new job. I haven't heard from him for a couple of weeks so he must have had his fix and is back in his own world.

S20 also mentioned that mil & fil are planning to come over for S23 wedding in August, it was the first I have heard of this, I was told it is a small wedding with immediate family only, so when I next spoke to s23 I asked him about it, he said he thinks they have invited themselves as he hasn't and part of the reason they are going to visit them in the New Year when then are visiting Europe is because they are not invited so want them to have an engagement celebration with them instead. I got myself a bit upset as I don't get along with mil and the thought of having to not only contend with seeing h again but also her just sent me over the edge, emotions run very deep when it comes to the subject of mil. Anywhoo, s23 got himself upset too as he is already worried about having me and h together and now has to tell his g/parents who he didn't invite to not come, I ended up agreeing to talk to h about it and asking him if he would tell them for us.

I don't know what his reaction will be but I have emailed him explaining the situation and asked for his opinion and help with this. I know it's a long time away but the in laws are people who will book flights early and then tell everyone they are coming a couple of weeks before they arrive, so i feel this needs to be dealt with before s23 sees them in a couple of months, let the dust settle. I also know it is an over reaction from me and I should have probably made out that I don't care, but honestly I don't think I can cope with both h and in laws at the same time, I am already getting anxiety at the thought of seeing h again and it's months away.

I'm over my job now that I have made the decision to leave, 145 days to go, oh yes i have a countdown app, keeps me going, seems such a high number but I know it will go fairly quickly. The summer season is upon us and its getting busy in the showroom and shop, I'm tired and drained, especially with everything going on with h, s moving and now the wedding worries, I ended up with a chest infection last week, terrible cough and lost my voice, thankfully feeling better this week but come out in cold sores, I know I need to look after myself better, but seems no time for down time arm.

I took part in the pink ribbon walk last weekend (breast cancer walk) with work, we all dressed up in pink costumes, our team won a prize for our costumes, was a really great day and they balanced fun with a reminder of what we where there for, it really bought home how precious life is and not to waste it as we really have no idea what is around the corner (hopefully all good things mwah mwah)

Our work Christmas function is at a Country and Western Bbq joint, we have to go dressed up, so I am looking at ideas for that, I have a couple of weeks to find something fun.

So that's about all from me, as I said ups and downs, probably should not have emailed h but it's done now and I have to live with any consequence from it. I ask myself if he had not broken the contact would I have done this, I think probably not.

Love n hugs xoxo

[bttrfly]

Hi Doll, thanks for the update. In the grander scheme of things I feel you are doing well, despite the chest infection. Self care is important, as you well know. Rest, soup. Build what you can into your day. It doesn't have to be a big thing that takes tons of time. When you get a break at work, leave the building for a quick 5 minute walk or a power nap in the back room. Even if you just put your feet up for five minutes, close your eyes and focus on your breathing it will help you.

Re: the Mil yeah, I get it, truly I do. I think it's fine to speak to H about his parents. He needs to set the boundaries with them as does S23. I imagine it's harder for S23 to do that without H's help. Who invites themselves to a wedding of all things?

Can son have a conversation with his grandparents saying how he feels about this and that he and his fiancee were planning a separate trip so that grandparents could have their own time with the happy couple?

i'm sorry Lou - I'm not really as sharp today and on point as I guess I could be. I really just want to offer love and support to you my dear friend. xoxoxoxo so I will do just that and stop here. {{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}

[LouR]

Hey bttrfly my gergeous friend, how are you ..... I will go read for myself in a mo.

Thanks for the support, it's always welcome and much needed xx mwah mwah
I am feeling much better and I have a complete day off tomorrow, no evening balloon installs so I am going to go to the beach for a long walk and get some fresh air.

As for the wedding topic - h was pretty good about it, said he thinks they probably presumed they are invited not really knowing the details, he has agreed to put them off, I was honest and explained that it was more for my benefit and that s23 was trying to minimise any possibility that I won't attend. A couple of emails went back and forth with h questioning a few things I wrote and I ended up feeling a bit irritated at his tone so ended the last one with " their alternative is that they will elope to Fiji and we will all miss out" which is actually true. He said he will let me know when he has talked to them.

I don't intend to contact him again, if he wants to speak to me he knows where I am, I don't want to get in to the habit of contacting him just because I can now, I have to continue on my own path - which does not include him anymore,

I have been looking for a solar fridge for camping, has anyone heard of one exsisting ?

Cup of tea time for me, hope everyone has a good weekend,

Love n hugs xoxo

[AndrewP]

Hi LouR!

You are sounding good and getting ready for lots of Adventures. Nasty disturbing uncomfortable things! Make you late for dinner! I can't think what anybody sees in them I see you are working on making them civilized adventures complete with refrigeration. No clue on if that sort of thing is reasonably available. I've seen versions you can plug in to your car but would worry about the weight to actually go out into the Wild.

On the other hand my idea of an Adventure is going to the hardware store without a list. Now that can be exciting and scary.

More and more I am seeing some very positive things in your posts Lou. You are putting your own feet under yourself and putting your own boots on. Since I have a tendency to reference obscure books, from one of my favourites is a story of two characters trapped in a hall of mirrors. They are told that the only way to escape is to "find the real one". One rushes off looking in mirror after mirror. Another one looks down at her boots and says "this one".

Don't forget when you are camping and adventuring to search for ambergris! I believe that the South Island actually has more sites than the North. I can't post links here but one of my favourite books on the subject is called "Floating Gold" by Christopher Kemp and published by the University of Chicago Press. ISBN 9780226430379 - perhaps your local library has a copy.

You've got a good grip on yourself and your new life and Summer is just starting.

(((LouR)))

[job]

Lou,

I am sorry that the in-laws "assumed" that they were invited to your son's wedding. Maybe they needed an excuse to come visit, but still, they should have asked as to what your son and future daughter in-law were planning. I do hope that your xh will get this straightened out and soon.

About the solar frig...yes, they do exist, but the ones I found were quite expensive. Do a search and you may find some in your area.

Keep up the good work. Enjoy your weekend.

[kml]

Lou-
I'm going to be a little bit of a stick in the mud here, so fair warning:

I'm concerned about your finances. I understand the debate between living now and planning for the future. And I get the desire to enjoy yourself to recover from all this mess.

But I also understand that we, as women of a certain age, need to plan for our financial futures. You were doing good saving, now you're going to quit another job and blow through those savings again? Isn't there a happy compromise somewhere?

[LouR]

Hi all, thanks so much for the advise and support, loves ya all xx

Andrew - ha ha, I really love hearing from you, you have a sense of humour that appeals to me greatly. Adventures come in all sorts of guises, I include no list shopping trips in that catagory, you never know what treasures you will find when your not looking .......

I will hunt down that book on ambergis tracking,I believe the west coast is the best place to look which happens to be the route I am taking,

Job - thanks you, i have said my bit, requested h sorts it and now it's in his court. I have heard of a solar fridge but little NZ is a bit behind in getting fancy technology. My alternative is to stay with a chillibin and visit paying campsites every couple of days to re freeze my ice blocks, means use of a laundry and hot shower too so not such bad idea, back to the planning.

Kms - thanks you for being my reasoning, it's always good to have someone ask the hard questions as I may not have considered them.

My savings are safe, i have not taken any holiday since I started work so by the time I leave I will have 7 weeks holiday pay owing to me, this equates to 9 weeks camping, eating, travel and a little spending money in each location. I intend to mostly walk and read and will be camping using my exsisting equipment. As for abroad travel I would love to do it but after 9 weeks I may have had enough being on the road,

At the rate of my saving I wont get to buy a house stage in my life time, it won't keep me in comfort in retirement. I am earning minimum wage so by the time I have paid rent, bills and food I don't have much left over, i have an emergency fund on the side of my savings so I haven't had to touch them and I try to pay something in each week. In short, at my age, with my meagre earning power, I don't have a financial future, it's living pay check to pay check, it's my reality, the state h left me to survive in,

Yes I have quit my job again, but this time it is for me and not for h, I feel my reasonings are solid; i am now completely alone, no children near me, no family and only a few friends who I hardly see now days as they have their own families and lives to keep them occupied. H is not coming back in to my life and I am in a really low paying job with not prospects of getting something better in the area I live. It makes sense to move nearer to my sons so I have them and possible future grandchildren in my life, s23 has expressed the wish to have me nearer to him, rent is lower in his area and he has a granny flat I can use until I find employment and start having an income again.

Right now, I'm unhappy, I have been unhappy for a few years, i don't know who I am, what I want and where I want to be, I have not given myself the courtesy of figuring these things out as I buried myself in a job to distract myself from what h did to me the second time, truth is it hurt me far more than the first time, the second was cold, harsh and needless and it broke me, completely broke me. I have not allowed myself to feel the full extent of what he did through fear of not being able to handle the emotional pain that will come with it, it's taken me a year, but I now feel I can face it without falling apart. I am more lucky than most here as I have complete freedom, I don't have any obligations where I am, no home, no family no co parenting with young children, I don't have a lifestyle I have to work in a high end job for to keep. I am taking a sabbatical from life for a few weeks because I can, it may not help me come to any conclusions but then again it might, I may find something, some place or someone interesting along the way that gives me a direction to go in, in the very least it will give me the opportunity to see some of the beautiful country I travelled half way around the world to live in and have not looked around yet despite having lived here for 10 years.

Thank you so much for caring, I really do get where you are coming from, I have had to work hard to have a bank balance that's not red, so I really appreciate you keeping me grounded when it comes to keeping it that way. Xx


Hmmmm I smell toast, so time to go and have some breakfast.

Love n hugs xoxox

.

[devvo]

Wow Lou - I am very impressed with the honesty and clarity with which you see your life. For what it's worth, I think it sounds like you're on the beginning of an adventure; one that could lead to more pain and loneliness, but probably won't.

Loved your use of the word 'chillibin'. If you aren't a born-n-bred Kiwi, you certainly sound like one!

[bttrfly]

Dear sweet Lou, it hurts me to read that you're unhappy. I understand. I really do. When I was a kid I read a book called Walkabout. It was about two kids who survived a plane crash in the Australian Outback, who were met by a young Aboriginal boy who was on his Walkabout. He saved their lives. The concept of the Walkabout fascinated me, as it was a time spent in the middle of nowhere, depending entirely on oneself for survival and contemplation of life and one's place in it seemed to be a great by-product. In a way, you're doing that now yourself. I hope you find a way to update us from the road

I don't think it's always going to be this way for you, in terms of earning potential. I truly don't. Before you tackle that, you really do need to make that inward journey. I understand that you needed this time to get strong enough to face it. I truly do my friend. I remember you having dreams of your own place, growing herbs, having a tea room. Remember that???

I feel it's very important for you to make this journey, Lou, at this time. I sense that you will be peeling back the layers of hurt to discover the real you beneath it all. I know you will find a beautiful gemstone, shining brightly beneath those layers of hurt. Chrysocolla comes to mind. Wow, I just did a quick online search and YES ... read about that stone, Lou!!!

I feel sometimes that such deep hurt can only be felt in stages for if we were to feel it all at once, we'd go mad. This year has helped you over the initial shock, brought back some balance and given you some strength so that you can now go inward and complete the rest of the healing. I know you can do this, Lou. My faith and confidence is entirely with you.

xoxoxoxo much love always xoxoxoxo

[job]

Lou,

I love the posting that bttrfly posted to you. Just like the MLCer, we are going to be peeling back layer by layer of ourselves to finally get to the person we hope to be. We are a work in progress and it takes time to figure out who we are and where we need to go. We were so much a part of our spouses' lives, i.e., lovers, companions, mothers, etc. When MLC hit, we began to look for signs and those magical bullets that will make our worlds so much better. Our focus was put on our spouses/companions so much so, we forgot to take care of ourselves in mind, body and soul.

Now that much of the MLC storm has passed, you are just now trying to get your footing and you are still floating a bit. You are trying different things along the way. In time, you will find the perfect job for you to be content. You will find the perfect home to be content, but until this, you are right where you need to be...that is testing the waters in all areas of your life to figure out who you are and who you want to be. It's frustrating, but it all takes time, i.e., think of what you are doing as peeling an onion to the get to the core.

Please do not be so hard on yourself. We all have to go through this and each person will take as long or short as necessary.

[HaWho]

Lou - yes, this all makes sense. We all process in our way and in our own time. There is no manual for this sort of thing.

I am wishing you the peace you so deserve.

[LouR]

Thank you so much devvo, bttrfly, job and HaWho for your lovely words to me.

Devvo - thank you and welcome to my story, I always hope that if I write honestly then if one day someone reads it and is feeling the same way they will not feel alone.

Bttrfly - thank you my wonderful friend, you wrote such beautiful words and they make so much sense, I feel so blessed to have you in my life, your support and strength have kept me going on many a dark day.

Job - I thank you for pointing out I am being hard on myself, I think a lot of it has to do with the people around me, frustrated at me still being stuck at this point, willing me to be happy, it's not that easy and they don't understand, I don't understand so to be able to come here to people who get it, who get what I am saying, it's been my saviour, so thank you for your continued support, words can't describe how incredible you are and I feel extremely lucky to have you in my life.

HaWho - thank you and right back at cha, I hope that we all find peace after the tornado that hit our lives.

So quick update and then I need some advice/opinion if anyone has thoughts.

My boss has spoken to me since my decision to leave, he doesn't want to lose me but respects I want some time out, so has offered me the opportunity to take 2 months off next year as planned but to return to him afterwards, learning different areas of the business and then when I find an interest area I can focus on that. He would like me to be more involved in the retail side of the business, running the showroom/shop team, get involved with buying and marketing side of things. It's a fantastic offer and one that eventually will get me off the bottom rung of the employment ladder and hopefully lead to bigger and better things in the future, I feel it's too good an opportunity to walk away from, he said he sees huge potential in me but at the moment he feels I don't see the potential in myself so maybe this way he can guide me in to finding it out.

S20 rang yesterday and told me that he wasn't going to spending Christmas with his dad as his dad has told him he is going to stay with a friend for Christmas. He plans to get the 3am ferry on Christmas Day and will be with me by lunch time, I think it's a crazy idea but I'm happy to have him home and I feel there is more to it that he is saying, I also thought to myself " h is ditching you on Christmas Day to go on holiday ..... What ??!!! " what does h think he's doing, I mean seriously, he gets the opportunity to spend Christmas with his son and chooses not to; I was really annoyed and upset for s20. But then .....

H emailed me today, said he has talked to his parents about the wedding and all is ok they are not coming, do I want to tell s23 or shall he,

I replied that he can tell S23 if he wants to and thank you for sorting it out, I appreciate it. I then started to write about s20 and Christmas but thought about it and realised that I am starting a conversation with someone who I don't know if he actually wants communication from me, nothing has actually been said in this area. So I asked him " I don't know what made you contact me after such a long time and I am slightly confused as to what you would like going forwards, there has been many a time I wanted to talk about s20 (especially the court and licence debarkle) but did not feel I could ....or should. So basically, in a rambling way, I am asking what you would like of me going forwards, contact, no contact, emergencies with the boys ?? At least I will know instead of guessing.

I will write his reply in full as I don't want anything taken out of context

He replied " I contacted you because I wanted to clarify about s moving down, that it wasn't my doing etc. I wasn't sure I should contact you, but felt strongly enough that I had to.

I haven't felt I could contact you before that, I'm the baddie in the peice, the cause of hurt. When I left, you said I didn't deserve a goodbye, and I knew nothing that suggested you felt any different so stayed away to be sure of not making things worse.

I wished I could've talked to you about s and his court stuff, I know I only get the edited version of events from him.

I would like to have contact, I would assume primarily around the boys and their shenanigans, but I am aware that you might not be ok with it given what I have done.

S spoke of coming up to you for xmas using his b/day money, which is something else to talk about, are we doing the same as we did for s23 21st? "

So that's it, I have not replied, I feel like de Ja vu, been here before. Everything got messed up so quickly the last time we renewed contact, I don't want to put myself in the same position again and i am not sure what to do. If I break this contact and let him in, even if it's just about the boys, am I picking off scabs and will never move forwards. But if I don't let him in at all then what I am saying is "it's over for me, door closed" and honestly in cant say that, I think when I comes to h the door Is currently still ajar - if the circumstances were right it could still be opened.

Well thats where things are with me. With my job opportunity, s wanting to come home for Christmas and h adding a little more information in to the mix it's total proof that we don't know what's going to happen each day we wake up, so hang in there and allow things to unfold as they should.

Love n hugs to everyone xoxox

[devvo]

Hi Lou

My 10c worth: IMHO you owe it to your children to at least open up a channel of communication with your H - because not having one can really be detrimental when you need it. S20 might be a little hurt right now - my heart went out to him when I read that his father basically abandoned him in favour of a friend. Having said that, we don't really know if his father offered a place at the Christmas table as well, or if everybody assumed that S20 would actually be happier to spend Christmas with you. That is probably something S20 needs to answer.

Anyway, the fact that your H is also discussing S20's 21st present like you two are parents who work together on some issues around the children is interesting. My XH has made it very, very clear that he wants his relationship with our boys to absolutely exclude me. Any time I have tried to work with XH on something that involves us both (e.g. setting up S21 at Uni or buying S18's 18th birthday present), XH says one thing to me and then tells the boys that I am being obstructive, critical, controlling yada yada yada. What he doesn't know is that the boys let me know there are supposedly issues arising on my side when they take me to task - and I set them straight about what I understood the arrangements to be.

Stupid thing is I keep all texts and emails (I, like OwnIt, know that they may eventually be needed in court) so I can prove XH is lying to them (I haven't had to yet - my word is enough - but they know I can). Eventually they will work out for themselves that their father's word isn't always trustworthy, and when that happens, I suspect the relationship dynamics might change a little.

In any case I've been forced to abandon any hope of a workable relationship with XH. If I could though, I would much prefer a civil, amicable relationship based on trust and respect. If that's what you think you've got (in relation to the kids) I would say go for it! Just be sure to manage your expectations so that you don't go extrapolating a good parenting relationship into something else.

[AndrewP]

Hi LouR! Fabulous news on the job front. It is indeed true that good things happen to good people.

My opinion is different than devvo's but that's part of what makes this place good for us. You of course need to decide what is best for YOU.

From what I read it looks like you are trying to pick up the rope that keeps you attached to your H. Your S20 gave you an opening and you grabbed the rope back up and gave it a tug. You H answered and from the tone of his letter as I read it - it was probably something difficult and delicate for him to write. Based on that you sound like you are wanting to grab on to him even harder.

Your own feelings may be a different interpretation of these events but I encourage you to examine them closely.

Our children are adults. In fact all of the players in our little dramas are all adults. People who can and should bear full responsibility for all of their actions. It was appropriate to communicate with S23's father about the wedding because that was something that involved that group of adults. You, S23, his father and grandparents.

For me, my S23 will very likely be spending Christmas morning with me - he lives here but I have no idea what he's doing with his mother. Because he and she are both adults and I have no say in their business and no particular need to know beyond how many plates to set for Christmas dinner. D25 will be celebrating American Thanksgiving in a couple of days. Her mother might be attending, possibly with her guy in tow (I really doubt it). Again - nothing to do with me. I've not asked.

It's tough to change the expected dynamic of two parents working as a team to raise our kids to look at it from the single parent perspective. Just like it's tough for us to let go of people who have abandoned us.

Please give some hard thought to what is it that is best for LouR? Just like all of us, you have a dream of reconciliation even if in my case I have left that dream behind. Until or unless you fully let go though, you will continue to be bound by the past. If that is still a dream you wish to have, then dealing with that with full awareness despite the fact that your son's father may not share that dream is your own choice.

((((LouR))))

This stuff is tough.

[devvo]

I think newly-minted adults who've been through a relatively recent MLC-style parental split need special handling. I'm not sure we'll ever be able to accurately peg them, but I believe their whole outlook on what being a family means has had to do a huge 180 - and I'm sure Christmas and weddings are a particularly difficult time for them.

Older teenagers/young adults have not had a childhood spent negotiating a two-house family, with OM/OWs, holiday arrangements and parents who have finally come to terms with their circumstances. Insteadh, they pride themselves on understanding how the world works, and now they are back to basics trying to reprocess what they believe their closest relationships to have been.

In my case, I know that my children were as surprised as me when XH walked out. They have both said they truly believed we were a happy family - and all of a sudden they learned we weren't. They are re-evaluating what they thought they knew about 'happy' people and 'happy' relationships. They *thought* they could tell if people loved each other. They would've sworn their parents did - but now they have to face the fact they might have been wrong.

If you and your H can show that just because you aren't together doesn't mean you can't somehow share support/discuss options/lend an ear when it comes to family matters, I don't see why you wouldn't if you could. That would come with a huge proviso though - nobody is going to get anything positive in the long term out of that sort of arrangement if you're not able to get through a contact without your equilibrium remaining intact.

I do take AndrewP's point about tugging the rope though, as well as yours, LouR, about deja vu. If this is how your H got back into contact last time, only to rebreak your heart, you (and AndrewP) are absolutely right to be cynical.

[job]

Lou,

You are caught between a rock and a hard spot here because of your sons and having to communicate w/your h. Andrew's posting is something that you need to re-read and then think hard on what he's written. Sometimes, as humans, we look for that one special opening to start communicating w/them again. I did it too...so I do understand what Andrew is pointing out. If the contact is keeping you from detaching more, then you may want to consider only responding when it is necessary to do so.

Your sons are grown and whatever relationship they forge w/their father is one that the three of them will need to rebuild. Yes, it's okay to be a part of that...but be careful...if co-parenting in a "closer" environment is going to cause you stress and anxiety, then it might be time to let them figure things out. As for family events, such as weddings births, family emergencies, both you will be there front in center because you both are parents. Again, I do understand where you are coming from.

As for the job front, I'm so glad to read that your manager/supervisor is willing to work with you on your position at his/her company. That says a lot about how great you are as an employee and as a person.

Lou, take each day as it comes and don't look too far ahead. You know that people in crisis change on a dime and he may want a connection w/you at the moment and then disappear down the rabbit hole again for a while. Please sit quietly....the answers will come.

Please take care of yourself.

[LouR]

Thanks for the advice and giving me different points of view devvo, Andrew and job, much appreciated and gave me food for thought.

Devvo, I do understand what you are saying about co parenting, there have been times when I could have really done with Input from h, but I got through it, I have dealt with each situation as it arose on my own and the result is I have a strong relationship with both my children.

AndrewP - Devils advocate and I thank you for it. A past version of me would have emailed h back immediately saying "of course we can be friends, I miss you, I want to be in your life etc etc " but this version was more restrained, I sat with this for a couple days before replying, I thought about what you wrote and I looked at what I felt was right for me, I would not have joined this forum had I not hoped for the outcome to be reconciliation but I have learnt enough and been through enough to know that I don't want a repeat performance and caution and skepitiseum is shielding me from picking up the rope again. Yes he tapped on the door and I opened it, but that does not mean I will be allowing him over the threshold. My gut tells me he is a bit lonely right now and he is having to play dad and is out of practice so who is the person to call upon ? As soon as something/someone distracts him he will be off again and I won't hear from him for a while, it's the pattern he has followed, everything still about him, I am not going to play that game.

job - I don't intend meddling in the relationship between h and the boys, they need to figure things out on their own, he has done considerable damage to both of them and I won't be the peace maker, that is not how I see my role or how this co parenting being, I see it more as exchanging information if required and being on the same page if a s does something dumb and needs guidance.

So after several drafts and deletes, sleeping on my reply before I sent it I decided on this:

S20 birthday money information

The reason s20 has given for coming to me for Christmas.

And

"I feel that if we can support each other as parents that would be helpful, being on the same page when dealing with situations can only be a good thing. "

I wished him good luck with his new job and signed off,

I figure that the only way to know if I can handle this is by doing it, if I find I am struggling to continue moving forwards in my own world because he is in it then I can go back to how things are now. I am still very focused on my job, my adventure next year and saving so with a direction to go in I will hopefully ride this latest contact out until he disappears again.

Thanks for all the advice guys n gals, much love to you all xoxox

[AndrewP]

(((LouR)))

[job]

Lou,

I think your response was good and to the point.

You are the only one that is walking in your shoes and you will know what you can and cannot handle as you walk your life's path. I've watched you grow by leaps and bounds and I am so very proud of how much you've grown and you've become even more wiser as you travel your life's path.

Always remember, we are a family here and we will be here to listen and support you as you travel your life's path. Keep up the good work...but be sure to take care of yourself along the way.

[devvo]

For what it's worth Lou, I think that your response to his email was perfect.

Were I him I'd read that you're willing to speak with him as far as anything to do with the boys goes but you haven't offered, or asked for, anything more.

[Sotto]

I think that's fair enough to too Lou. You have been around that loop one time already and you were hurt by how things unfolded. You are understandably cautious and that's fine. Lovely that you are so highly valued already - clearly your boss has great taste!!!

Xxx

[bttrfly]

fwiw my darling lou i thought your response was perfect.

yes, dearest keeping the focus on you and your goals is the only solution.

i'm delighted with the proposition made to you by your boss. you've earned that my dear and i hope you pause a moment to look back, see how far you've come and gain strength from that to move forward. well done my friend xoxoxoxo

[LouR]

Hi everyone, thanks for the feedback, that second opinion is always so valuable as I don't have a clue how to react to h these days, I'm never sure what the right thing to do/say is, always conscious of making things worse for myself.

Not much of an update to talk about, my new role has started, it's still in the planning stages of how it's actually going to work, but I have been given guidelines and now have to come up with a plan, thankfully it's not expected until the new year as we are now in the busy period with Christmas events.

S23 and fiance left for their adventure, I have Been getting daily updates and photos of their trip which is lovely.

S21 has booked his ferry to come to me for Christmas, he will be staying for 5 days which will be nice, I have missed him but am pleased it's just a visit and not to move back home !!

And h, he emailed me after my reply to say yes please to supporting each other as parents, it's something he definately( his word) would like. We had a couple of emails back and forth, friendly chatting about nothing in particular creeping in, he asked if it was ok and I replied that we have history and a familiarity that time doesn't take away and that I have genuinely missed him from my life, I said that I am not going to rehash what has happened with us, it serves no purpose to look backwards, it will only cause more hurt and pain. I said that for now we are parenting together, maybe in time it will repair us as friends.

He emailed me a couple days ago, a short catch up on s20 and chatted about his new job. He then sighed off " Thanks for being you, Love, Me x "

I read that last sentence and laughed ....felt like replying " your welcome, I know, I am awesome aren't I" ....... but I didn't lol.

Thanks for being you .....Bahaha funny guy

Anywhoo, it's late so I'm off to bed.

Love n hugs xoxo

[bttrfly]

should have signed off with that babe. you ARE awesome and he's a fool. xoxoxoxo

[LouR]

Hey sweet Bttrfly, haha it was very tempting to send that reply!

Xoxo

[LouR]

Hi Everyone

Just dipping in to wish everyone a Very Happy Christmas. I know for some of you this is a challenging time of year, i hope you will find some peace and joy during this festive season, my love with with you all.

Finally coming to the end of this thread, it's taken me a year !! So a New Year will bring a new beginning for some aspects of my life, I am actually looking forward to seeing what 2018 brings my way and know I can face any challenges head on, especially with the love and support of all of you behind me,

It's Christmas Eve here, S23 rang from the Uk this morning to arrange a good time to Skype tomorrow, we have chosen my evening, his morning so it will be Christmas Day for both of us. S20 arrived this morning, we have a house full of his and g/friends friends, lots of alcohol and silly games, it's lovely to have the house full and noisy once again ...... Although it's nice to have the knowledge it's only for a few days ha ha. I have 4 days off over New Year so hope to go camping if I can find a pitch somewhere near a beach.

As for H, I have not heard from him for 3 weeks, no surprise there!! S20 g/friend mentioned that both s are not impressed that h has opened contact with me, don't understand why he has after all this time. Apparently he has been asking questions about my life and has spoken to a couple of his friends about talking to me again, And what was so important that he had to ditch his son at Christmas ..... a camping trip with a couple of male buddy's !!?? Screwy in the head that one lol.

So all that is left is to wish everyone a safe, peaceful and Happy Christmas.

Love and Hugs Xoxo

[AndrewP]

A Very Merry Christmas to you my dear LouR! I just checked and it's about 2:00am there so Santa has perhaps visited.

No coal for you, perhaps a lump of ambergris ? You have been such a good girl this past year that I am sure that he has left something nice.

Enjoy your day. It sounds like it will be filled with love.

[job]

Lou,

Wishing you and your family a very Merry Christmas! May the new year open up a new chapter in your life's book for you.

Don't worry....your h will emerge again and contact you. He's got a lot to mull over and he's still baking in the oven. Maybe "Santa" will help him along by turning up the oven temp over the holidays.

Enjoy your time off!

[bttrfly]

Happy new Year my dear! May 2018 bring the fulfillment of your dreams, good health and prosperity to you xoxoxo

[LouR]

Starting a new thread :

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2775178&#Post2775178