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Gord, he was a total fixer, pursuer, want to know why, needed an answer now kind of guy. When I tell him of the things I'm being told and learning the light kind of goes on in his eyes realizing what all he did that was wrong.


Me 49 W46
T25 M22
S22 D18 S13
W had EA Apr-Jul 2016
Dropped Bomb 7/9/16
ILYBINILWYA
HER DIVORCE IS FINAL...8/18/17
Dropping the rope to SURVIVE & THRIVE!!!
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Gordie--

It sounds like you increased your parenting time but you're still not at 50-50. Gordie, I can't imagine what it might feel like in your shoes, with your personal history, and all the confusion thrown your way by your wife who was once so loving. But I am telling you, if you don't fight for 50-50, you are going to regret it for the rest of your life. If you don't fight for 50-50, you are repeating -- to a lesser degree -- what your parent did to you. I believe it is a form of abandonment. Your kids need you JUST AS MUCH as they need your wife. To settle for any less is to abdicate what you deserve, what is right, and to perpetuate the hurt in your life. In addition, it caters to your wife's la-la land view of what parenthood is, and it caters to her disrespect for you and your dignity.

I don't think agreeing to 50-50 means you have to be inflexible and exact about your parenting schedule. You could put in language saying you will first try to negotiate more frequent visits by both, but fall back to the set schedule if you cannot agree. I'd talk to your attorney about making that kind of a tiered agreement. Also, your wife might say she'll take your kids 70% of the time or whatever, but once she really starts to spend 40+ hours on her career, she might realize she just doesn't have the time for 70%.

I may be projecting. I don't know the details of your situation, but I urge you to settle for nothing less than 50%. At least reserve your right to have 50% at a later time, even if you start at 70-30.


Me: 50, MLC/WW 45
Young kids
Nov 2015: BD1
Apr 2016: BD2
Jan 2017: W filed
Feb 2017: D final
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ForGump,

Thank you. What do you mean...start with something less and preserve right to move to 59-50 later? I didn't even know that was an option?


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
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Gordie - Why exactly don't you want to start off with 50/50 custody?

You mentioned that her proposal was not enough. She recommended every other weekend and 1 night/weekday for dinner? That is ridiculous. I see my bank teller more.

Are you trying to be nice to your wife hoping all this will just blow away? Or are you a hands off sort of dad that is nervous about taking on 50%? Are you nervous she'll monster and you'll "lose her?" What exactly is your rationale for not wanting 50%? Please explain so we can help you work through the issue.

By the way, if you already agreed to her preposterous recommendation, it is totally fine to change your mind and you do not owe it to her to give any sort of explanation whatsoever.

There are so many reasons you need 50% custody. First and foremost, it says to your kids I want you as much as I can have you. This is really important. Secondly, time away from her shields them from MLC. She will get worse before she gets better. We have an obligation to show our kids how a proper home runs. You can't control how she will run her home but we have to complete the job we started. We should not outsource child rearing to a kooky MLCer.

That said, your w is interested in a young employee, right? (I think that is her sitch.) At some point she'll probably introduce him into her life and fantasy will meet reality. You want to limit the time your kids see all this. This guy particularly is a complete loser. A 20 year old guy who pursues (or allows himself to be pursued) by a married woman (who is his boss!) with 5 kids is a dreg. This is what she is attracting!!!

People in MLC often become very manipulative. I am worried that she has a motive behind all this. What if she is building a case that you are unfit to parent because you didn't want 50% custody?

It is in rare cases parents do not share custody equally. And if there is some huge disparity in time with kids, usually the one with the sliver of the pie is somehow unfit. Don't you think between the two of you, right now, she is less fit than you are?

She is gunning for the house and the kids. Saddle up your horse and fight for what you deserve. There will be a series of crossroads throughout this process. You need to make decisions true to you at each of them.

Anytime I struggle with these sorts of decisions, I think: what do I want to pattern for my kids or if my kids were adults and in my situation, how would I advise them?


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
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Gordie,

An example of 50/50 that H and I are currently following is called a 3/3/4/4 arrangement. I have the kids Sun, Mon, Tue night overnight. He has them Wed, Thurs, Fri overnight. We rotate Saturday nights. This is a little more stable for them as the only day of the week that ever changes for them is Saturdays. It makes the weekends long for me when he has them on Saturday nights, but other than that it seems to be working as well as can be expected. We've been on this schedule since 1/1. Also, they get off the school bus at my house every day and he picks them up on his way home from work on his nights. So I really get to see them almost every single day which is pretty cool. If you stay in the house, that might be something that you put in your visitation agreement. It's just another way to try to reduce the impact to the kids in a small way.


Me : 42
Him : 43
M : 18, T : 19
D13, D11
4/16 1st BD (ILYB)
11/16 H wants s, moves out of br
1/17 H rents house & moves out
2/17 OW (he denies PA but EA last winter)
5/17 I filed for D 7/17 D Final
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ForGump/HaWho/KarenHC,

Thanks for your concern and hitting me over the head. I love 2x4s, seriously--you guys are the best and tell me things that I won't hear anywhere else. I can't go into all of the details...but I hear you: I need to re think my current custody stance. And HaWho, no, I have not been a hands off dad; I am very involved. In fact, W has never criticized my parenting--even when she is spewing. We haven't signed anything yet, so it's still all theoretical. W has been more open to negotiation on things than I feared.

***

This week has been a pretty good week. In general, I have been good about following your/the DB coach's advice: I've been a friendly neighbor; we talk every evening about non-controversial topics; we are doing the types of things that build friendship. She has been saying more ILYs and calling me pet names...she even wore her wedding ring this week. One day she was tenderly looking me in the eyes and playing with my hair and I felt like she wanted to say something, but she didn't. I'm doing my best not to mind read and to keep my expectations at zero...as I know I could be served with D papers at any moment.

I am reading the book on abandonment that Mach1 gave me as homework...wow, it's eye opening. I think everyone who has ever been abandoned including those here should read this book. We, the abandoned, have a script too--and boy, am I following it to a tee. The author describes what I have been experiencing these past six months and what I now know--listening to all of you--is just part of a common experience. The extra issue for me is that when you have been abandoned multiple times...you have to deal with your current situation multiplied by past ones. Hopefully, I will have some quiet time to finish the book this weekend.


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Joined: Jul 2016
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Originally Posted By: Gordie
What do you mean...start with something less and preserve right to move to 59-50 later? I didn't even know that was an option?

It seems reasonable to me to agree to something like:

For a transitional period of 3 months Dad sees kids every other weekend; thereafter it's 50-50.

or

While Gordie and his wife agree, Gordie sees his kids every other weekend; but in the absence of an agreement Gordie gets the kids 50-50 (name some schedule, like 3-3-4-4 or 7-7 or something like that.

I'd talk to your lawyer about ways to structure it that way.

Also, I think the reality of these agreements is that they serve to protect you IN CASE you and your wife don't agree. In other words, you and your W can put whatever on paper, but it's always how you two run the show. For example, you could put "50-50" on paper, but in practice you can do 90-10, and the state government is not going to come knocking on your door.

So, you could talk to your wife and tell her you want to put 50-50 on paper as what you default to in case you cannot agree, but that you're willing to try different things to accommodate your kids' changing needs. Your lawyer may not recommend that, but I think that's the reality of how it works.

Finally, you could do 50-50 but that does not prevent a parent from coming to public venues where your kids are, including school and extracurricular events. So regardless of how you phrase all this, you can be there for your kids at their sports games and piano lessons, etc.


Me: 50, MLC/WW 45
Young kids
Nov 2015: BD1
Apr 2016: BD2
Jan 2017: W filed
Feb 2017: D final
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Originally Posted By: Gordie
I need to re think my current custody stance.


This is what I would suggest...

During the Divorce process, I made a list with three columns..

1-Things that I would not move off of (50/50)

2-Things that I was willing to move off of and negotiate with

3-Things that I did not care about and would offer



And once I defined that list of things, then I knew where my line in the sand was.

I agree about the 50/50 custody. If you do not go after it, you will regret it.

Think about how your life is right now, and see if there is any of the schedules mentioned that would work for you.

One that I have seen success with is the 2-2-5. Say that you have them every Monday and Tuesday, while she has them every Wednesday and Thursday, and you alternate weekends.

What the court is looking for/at, is stability with them. They will look at what has been happening, and what is on the table. So it is best to try to put a plan in place BEFORE you start the legal process.

Start thinking about before and after school care, sitters, etc for them NOW, so that it doesn't bite you in front of the court/mediator.

Court is about perception, and what it appears is going to happen. It is about looking backward to see what has already taken place, and trying to not disrupt a "system"...

Now, whether any of this comes to fruition is yet to be seen, however, you should be prepared for it if it were to happen.

Keep a calendar of days you have them, and she has them, and make sure you are journaling daily events, interactions and such. According to the courts...if it isn't written down, it didn't happen...

The other aspects of the list, were because the court is also looking to see who is reasonable and flexible. If YOU are willing to give and bend, then they seem to be more apt to work toward you with things.


I know this sounds final...it's just part of the being prepared thing.

Doesn't hurt to know what you are going after in the event that this turns South quickly...



I'm glad you are getting something from the book....

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X2 ^^

I was never going to budge from 50-50, in my mind I was losing 50% of the time with him as it was.

We do something very similar to the 2-2-5 with a modification due to my job requirements. I have Mondays and Wednesdays, she has Thursdays and Fridays. We alternate Tuesdays and the weekends. (Never going more than 4 days without having him this way) She wanted to alternate Sat/Sun essentially splitting the weekend every week, I refused this thinking long term I did not want to sacrifice every weekend (and knew the courts tend to stay with the ongoing arrangements) ... would be impossible to plan things with or without our son so I dug in for that one though she really tried to fight it. More due to the fact she did not want to be 'alone' which you may/may not encounter.

Another thing to think of ... First right refusal, say she has plans for a night she has the kids, you get first shot to spend the time with them before she opts to send them to a sitter/friends house.

I would also think of the Holiday schedule, this one gets a bit tough when the Holidays come near and you will see them spin, these boards are always very active around that time so I would plan this now and it will save you ... hopefully... some headaches later down the road.

Like Mach said .. it sounds so final and done but you will be glad you have paved this out to protect your rights as a parent while they stroll into the various tunnels.


M: 48
W: 47
M16 T26-S8
BD Sept13



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God, all this talk of custody arrangements [censored]. That is my biggest worry, and the UK doesn't favour fathers too much.

If your job allows it Gordie, get the max you can. My worry is that I leave the house at 5:30 and get back at 7:30, so with a 5 year old, I can't do schools or anything, and W is saying that if I go for joint custody then she will enforce it to the letter of the law. I reckon the best I could do at the moment is every Friday night, Sat, Sun, take D to school on Monday and make up my hours in the week.

I truly hope you can figure something out that works for you and get an agreement with your W. The guys have given some great advice. 50/50 default with agreements to vary per your kids needs does seem the way to go.


--
Me: 47 WW: 35
SS: 17 D: 5
T: 7 yrs Engaged: 2 yrs
OEA confirmed: August 17 2016 ongoing since April 2016.
OEA continues (with occasional breaks)
BD2 - W says will visit OM in Jan 18
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