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Originally Posted By: Gordie
I really am afraid and haven't faced these fear. It hadn't dawned on me that avoiding my fears makes me want to control the people around me and my situation. That's a lot to chew on.


Little bites Gordie...

Something that I figured out, was that even though the fear got greater right after the bomb, those fears had always driven my thoughts, which were driving my words, which were driving my actions, and ultimately driving lifetime behavioral habits....

What had actually happened was. that those fears had become goals for me....

Right up to the point where I changed it....I.E. by DBing...

Are you familiar with the Stockdale Paradox ??

Similar random fact...

The human brain in incapable of thinking in terms of "do" and "do not"...

It cannot differentiate between them...

Let's say that you are standing on the tee box, Par 3 , and you have to carry over a pond to get there...

You remind yourself...Don't hit the water, don't hit the water, don't hit the water....

Your words are telling yourself that, however...

What your brain is comprehending is....

Hit the water, hit the water, hit the water...

In reality, what you should be thinking is...

Hit the green, Hit the green, Hit the green !!!

Use that process when you work through your issues, think in the positive, and really try to pinpoint specific areas that you want to address....

Are you controlling ??

Maybe so, however...WHY are you controlling, and how did you get there ???



An example...

I was controlling throughout my marriage...

Why ?

I was controlling because I was insecure about abandonment issues throughout my childhood, and my fear of my marriage falling apart and not being able to break the legacy of divorce led me to hold on too tightly, and attempt to control my spouse by forcing her to believe in and adapt to the same things that I believed....and while SHE believed in the same things, I wasn't open to hearing or understanding that there are typically several ways of doing things, and just because her specific things didn't match mine, then she was ultimately, in my mind.....wrong...

However, that is only one side of it...

The other side was the fear that I wasn't everything that I had built myself up as, so I was also controlling through criticism...

In most instances, this is one of the most often abused forms of control...

Building oneself up by putting another down....

Which leads me to your comments about criticizing your wife....

You don't ever have to put her down, in order to build yourself up....


Okay...enough to "chew" on for now....




Originally Posted By: Gordie

And yet, I'm still here.


Best thing I have seen you post yet....

: )

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Stockdale:

“I never doubted not only that I would get out, but also that I would prevail in the end and turn the experience into the defining event of my life, which, in retrospect, I would not trade.”

The optimists:

“They were the ones who said, ‘We’re going to be out by Christmas.’ And Christmas would come, and Christmas would go. Then they’d say, ‘We’re going to be out by Easter.’ And Easter would come, and Easter would go. And then Thanksgiving, and then it would be Christmas again. And they died of a broken heart.” What the optimists failed to do was confront the reality of their situation. They preferred the ostrich approach, sticking their heads in the sand and hoping for the difficulties to go away. That self-delusion might have made it easier on them in the short-term, but when they were eventually forced to face reality, it had become too much and they couldn’t handle it.

Stockdale:

Stockdale approached adversity with a very different mindset. He accepted the reality of his situation. He knew he was in hell.

Gordie:

One of the vets (maybe it was you) mentioned the Stockdale Paradox when I first arrived here and I didn't get it...now I see what you guys were trying to tell me back in December...but I wasn't ready to receive that advice...hopefully, I am ready now.


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
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Scene from the twilight zone:

So the other night, I come home and my W completely ignores my existence...it was weird and unwelcome (most days are at least cordial)...but instead of getting emotional about it or reacting or spending the evening mind reading...I said this is what HaWho puts up with all the time and if she can do it, then so can I...and I just went about my business for the evening with the kids...no words exchanged...we walked by each other a few times (our house isn't that big), no eye contact, no nothing...she is already in bed and when I finish my evening chores I get in bed too...and she says "Goodnight"...and the next morning I get a "Have a good day"...thanks to all of you, I was just steady and didn't let her weirdness affect me...a small detachment victory...


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
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Gordie

The live in MLCr is much more difficult than the alternative .... though those whose MLCr has flown the coop would argue they want nothing more than their MLCr back ... I have had both and could not do it.

I read a thing the other day "You can put up with anything for ten minutes ... then after that is done just reset your ten minute timer."

I think you are doing well and on the right path for all this.


M: 48
W: 47
M16 T26-S8
BD Sept13



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Gordie - watch her and you will witness the fog first hand. She'll say bizarre things, lack empathy and show herself to be the opposite of who she was. If ever you call her out on something she said she often will not even remember saying it. My h told me I could go sleep with other men. The next day I confronted him on it and he denied ever saying it. He seemed confused and it appeared genuine.

The confusion is startling. For months, my h came and went without acknowledging us too much. He was like a zombie. He was gray and expressionless.

I read in someone else's thread that your wife said she was excited for d. After my h bombed me he visibly was giddy, too. It was nauseating to witness. They really do believe this x thing is their cure-all. And their empathy chips are so busted they just blurt out anything.

The Stockdale Paradox is an interesting concept. Remember you have more control than you think. You cannot control her but you definitely can control how you handle yourself as she goes crazy.

Personally? I have always liked this Henry Ford quote: "If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right."


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
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Looking for some tactical advice: so my W has started to redecorate the house the way she wants (and we are still living together). We've divided our money, so she's spending her own. Do I comment? Do I ignore? She moved my stuff out of the MBR without saying anything and I moved it back in without saying anything. I know she wants me to move out asap. She hasn't filed for D yet, but that could be any day now.


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,523
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Originally Posted By: Gordie
Looking for some tactical advice: so my W has started to redecorate the house the way she wants (and we are still living together). We've divided our money, so she's spending her own. Do I comment? Do I ignore? She moved my stuff out of the MBR without saying anything and I moved it back in without saying anything. I know she wants me to move out asap. She hasn't filed for D yet, but that could be any day now.


I would not sweat it ... I know Hawho's H lived like a Fratboy in his little room and she just let him have that space ... maybe with a frebreze spritz as she walked by at times. As far as the MBR, d@mn right .. that's yours.. if she wants to shack up on the couch or another room so be it but do not give up your ground there, boundaries must happen and that's one of em.


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HaWho--

You are an inspiration. Yes, my W has expressed excitement/giddiness. She told me she feels like an 18 year old getting ready to go off to college for the first time. She's so excited about her post-D life.

CaliGuy--

Thanks. I will continue to not sweat it. I will do my best not to let it bother or aggravate me, even though I hate feeling like I am being pushed out of her life/our house.

***

Anyone out there familiar with the book conscious uncoupling? I know my W read it and she suggested I read it (I did not) and I think she is using it as her guidebook for having a happy-happy D and happy-happy post-D relationship with me and a happy-happy post-D family life.


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,387
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Originally Posted By: Gordie
She hasn't filed for D yet, but that could be any day now.

Oh man, Gordie. I feel for you.

You've discussed a lot of the logistics already -- have you discussed a timeline for a divorce? Or, if not a timeline, a general order of events? (E.g., we will agree on terms of separation, then she/you/both-of-you will file, then you will move out, etc.)

The reason why I ask is that while I believe it's important for you to respect your own boundaries, I also think it's pointless to create a battle if you're only about to move out. But, as you know, I speak from little experience.

I still think you are making a mistake by not going for 50-50 custody arrangement. You will regret it eventually. I'm sorry to say. I just keep hearing this over and over from people (especially husbands) who have settled for less than 50-50. If there is a way, I would try to put in language that says you two will do it by mutual agreement but in case you are not able to agree, the default plan is 50-50. That way, if things go way south, you know you will have 50% access to your kids.

Don't screw yourself over, Gordie, by being too much of nice guy right through the divorce process.


Me: 50, MLC/WW 45
Young kids
Nov 2015: BD1
Apr 2016: BD2
Jan 2017: W filed
Feb 2017: D final
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,387
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Originally Posted By: Gordie
She told me she feels like an 18 year old getting ready to go off to college for the first time.

Barf

But there is a thing called reality. There is nothing new under the sun. She is chasing a pipe dream.


Me: 50, MLC/WW 45
Young kids
Nov 2015: BD1
Apr 2016: BD2
Jan 2017: W filed
Feb 2017: D final
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