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15Stang

Thanks for sharing. I've read and re-read your post, and looked at your thread. There were many many things you said which showed me we are walking down the same road, many things you said I've thought, felt.

One thing you said that stuck - that you hate it when the unrighteous prosper. I am suffering very badly with that at the moment. I am literally on my knees most nights, there's this gaping wound where my heart should be, and WH is loving up OW.

I spoke to my mother in law yesterday because I wanted to know if she knew her son was divorcing me on grounds on my unreasonable behaviour despite his adultery. She confessed that he's taken OW to meet them, his parents. His enablers. They stayed over night. She's slept in my bed. The bed I've slept in for 13 years. She's sat at the dinner table. Where I've sat. Spoken to my mother in law about literature, which I did. Hugged her goodbye. My mother in law. The agony is unbelievable.

M-i-l volunteered the info that WH has also met OW's parents. I actually feel physically sick. She said they were very 'easy' with each other. I know what she means. She means they are relaxed and happy together.

You say you believe people reap what they sow. I want desperately to believe that too. But I don't see justice anywhere - not for me, not for you.

The pain is so great now I am actually finding it impossible to cry. I used to find relief after crying, but I can't even get that now.


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Bluwave

I called out to you because I was desperate for you to tell me more about the parallels between my WH and yours. I was full of hope at the time.

Somehow his informing me he's started the process has changed things for me. I feel different inside. The hope has died. There's nothing left to protect me from the pain, the grief anymore.

I cried in front of my son for the first time since December. I hate that he saw me.

I know WH is experiencing some of the issues with OW that he experienced with me. Namely trust. I've guessed that he's given her his passwords to his email accounts, because I saw he deleted the email where I said I loved him, and then deleted it from his bin - he only would do that if he was worried she might see it. And he's been bcc-ing her into all emails he sends me.

I know intellectually things will get better. I just don't know how to hang on till then.

Can I just ask, Bluwave, how did the turn around for your WH happen? Were you starting to communicate in a friendly fashion? did you have R talks?

I ask but at the same time I despair because I know the answers will not be necessarily helpful, because my WH and yours, while outwardly similar, are very different people. I know my WH well enough to know that once he's made up his mind, that's it. His sitch with OW has to come to crashing point the way it did with me before he will leave her. Or she will have to dump him, and given that she's clinging on despite the number of huge lies he's already told her, it doesn't look like she will either.


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I want to move back home with every fibre of my being. But my little boy will struggle. and miss his father, as heinous as his behaviour has been to me, they love each other and I don't want to be the cause of their missing each other.

My son said to me this morning, "Mummy, I love you and Daddy. I love you both." I affirmed this and said it was good that he loves us both, that's the way it should be.

He's cried at night for the last couple of nights saying 'I want Daddy.' If we move back to my home country I can't say, 'You'll see him soon', which is what I can say now. WH would only be able to see our son during his school holidays, which is probably twice a year, feasibly.

I don't want to be martyr, but I don't want to be a villain either.

In all my decisions now, including whether to be the one to file for divorce based on adultery or not, I am trying to do God's will. I've realised I'm at this point because I acted in a very selfish, immature, ungodly way before. I struggled for a long time, seeing this as punishment and being angry with God because it felt so unfair that I should be punished so harshly. But in the last day it's occurred to me that this is not God' punishment per se. It's just a natural consequence of my previous behaviour. Be unloving and be unloved. I am thinking this is why the Bible tries to guide us down a certain path - to act differently outside what is advised will be to reap, and sow, ill fortune. It's a road map to not creating our own misfortune.

My husband will have consequences of his own, but they will be specific to his actions. I think. I hope.


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2016,
The pain does hurt. It is ok to feel it. Not that you are but don't stuff it. My upcoming divorce and the multiple affairs and betrayals have been the most pain I have ever experienced. This type of pain shapes you. It molds you. The best news is that it can shape you and mold you for the better. But you have to choose that.

I have been separated from my W for almost 3 months. I actually think I am in a pretty good place. I believe this is because of the support I have received but it is also the result of the work I have done on myself through the last three years of our marriage. My wife's affairs have made me the person I am today. And I can honestly say I am a much better person today and a much better husband today than I was three years ago. I love my wife but she is a fool to leave me. That she thinks the OM will make her happy is ridiculous. He is as broken as she is. But my guess is they display a happy front to everyone.

The OM has also met my in laws. My in laws have met his kids. My in laws stopped talking to me 2 weeks after she left. They hate conflict and I know they will not make a stand to their daughter. I hate feeling like I have been so thoroughly and quickly replaced. I feel like such a used person. I feel like all I was good for was for my wife to use me until she became bored and then find another person.

i know people reap what they sow. I also know that it is not in our timing and it is also completely possible we will not see them suffer (due to seasons of life etc). I would love to see my wife's affair blow up watching from the sidelines. But truthfully that isn't forgiveness. I do want her to come to a place of brokenness and repentance but watching her suffer would hurt me a lot. I have chosen to bear the cost of her decisions. Not because she deserves it or because what she has done to me isn't wrong. I choose to bear it because I WILL NOT become her prison guard making sure she gets what she deserves. Truthfully me waiting for her to suffer actually causes me to suffer. But yes.... people always reap what they sow. We are not in charge of the timetable.

I can think of a few people in my state that ran Ponzi schemes for quite some time. For years, decades, they enjoyed the good life sowing destruction and eventually one day it caught up to them. They are now paying the price. I say this from my own point of view.... I would rather be in the position I am in doing what I know to be right than living a lie or life that I know is wrong. I sleep well at night again. I didn't for the first month because of the emotional stress and pain. But I do not go do bed guilty knowing I have forsaken my morals and values. If I was in an affair and doing what my wife was doing or running a Ponzi scheme I would be such a wreck on the inside even though I could display a person that is happy. This is not the way I would want to live my life. I want to live with integrity.

This journey we are on completely stinks. But as a person of faith God will use it to make you better and to make you more like Jesus. It hurts. There is pain and suffering. It is crushing to feel like you are nothing more than someone to be thrown away because you aren't good enough anymore. You will second guess yourself and blame yourself for all of the wrong in the marriage. Don't fall into that trap. You did not cause someone to have an affair. The affair is not a symptom of a bad marriage. Don't believe this lie because a lot of people will tell you the an affair is a symptom of the marriage. The affair revelals the kind of character a person has.

Marriage is tough and hard work. Affairs are easy. My wife and I had a pretty good marriage. Neither of us were perfect. She chose to find someone else to cope with her struggles. I could have done the same but I didn't.

As for your divorce I cannot help you. In my state all divorce is "irreconcilable differences" and we are a no fault state. I am ill equipped to provide you with any counsel.

You can and will get through this. God will protect you and comfort you. It is one day at a time. I am a planner by nature and living one day at a time has been tough. But it has taught me a lot.

I am so sorry for your pain. You are a worthy person. Just because someone tells your or acts towards you like you are not doesn't mean it is true. You are worthy of love.
E


Me 38, Her 40
T-14, M-13, No kids
BD-1 4/14- EA/PA
BD-2 10/14- EA
BD-3 2/17- EA/PA
W Moves out 2.10.17 in with AP
W Served D papers 3.6.17
Divorce Final- 5.23.17
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Originally Posted By: 2016sux
Thanks Jeep, and KevinIn. You guys are great.

I still feel crap though, because as KevinIn astutely pointed out, this is not a 180 for me. Just more of the same. I find it difficult to strike that balance, where I am supposed to be firm but gracious.

it's a path we all have to find. You do want the 180s (b/c you said you wanted to be the best version of yourself, not about your h) so that's something to work on. For you.


When it comes to legal or financial matters, the time to discuss them is NOT after you come home from a dinner out, or have had any alcohol, or are already apologizing for anything.

These legal/money matters are for the lawyers and ONLY for the lawyers.

I would not circumvent the L's in your situation - b/c in your shoes, having a young child and a foreign homeland...and you know your STBX wants to keep you and your son in HIS country....it's a bad idea to think you can work it out privately, while so emotionally invested, thinking out all the long term permutations and possibilities.

Plus I'm not sure how to get an enforceable agreement about custody.
What makes you think that he will return your son to your homeland after holidays are over?

Because he says he will? What's your lawyer say? How are these things enforced? I don't mean what the law "says" (and I'm a L)

I mean when there's no money put in the bank how do you get it from him? And when he keeps the son "for the sake of the son", how do you fight him in court

in the UK?

What about you having physical custody of the child and allowing your h visitation until your son is 14 (or whatever age is legally applicable there)?

I mean you have a support system and that means so does your son. H has his parents and a brother and are they available for child care?

Again, what does your L say?

Please, graciousness or anger or 180 issues aside,

do not discuss or ever sign anything about the property division or custody issues on your own.

You can graciously say you need time to run things by your L...and will get back to him (and then let the lawyer get back to his lawyer)...

Yes it costs more to engage the L's this^^ way - in the short run,

but with the high stakes and your h's history, I cannot imagine trusting him long term.


I think because I am not experienced at being gracious and calm when disagreeing with him (somehow I can do it with other people but emotions too near the surface with WH), I go to the extreme of doormat, and then swing wildly the other way because I get so annoyed with myself, straight to T-Rex frown

well it's something to work on. Assuming it's not about money or the divorce,

Maybe start by stating what you agree on like "I know we both love son..."

and then give your opinion and sometimes I had to pray (turning things over to the Big Guy -out loud) before any expected contact.

Other times I'd pretend I had been given a sedative and would ACT a lot calmer than I felt. Just to know I was not escalating things.

Sometimes (often) h escalated, sometimes irrationally, and then I'd get more calm. It was almost weird.

The calmer person is the one with the most power -

and reminding myself of this^^ was very useful. Don't give away your power.
.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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[quote=2016sux]I want to move back home with every fibre of my being. But my little boy will struggle. and miss his father, as heinous as his behaviour has been to me, they love each other and I don't want to be the cause of their missing each other.


how would you be the cause of their missing each other?


My son said to me this morning, "Mummy, I love you and Daddy. I love you both." I affirmed this and said it was good that he loves us both, that's the way it should be.

He's cried at night for the last couple of nights saying 'I want Daddy.' If we move back to my home country I can't say, 'You'll see him soon', which is what I can say now. WH would only be able to see our son during his school holidays, which is probably twice a year, feasibly.

I don't want to be martyr, but I don't want to be a villain either.


are those really your only options? You said earlier that you swing from one extreme to the other, when it comes to disagreeing with your h.

Maybe there is a pattern- You want to assume responsibility for their R. You want to stay in a country you admit never warming up to, (so let's ignore your wants and needs)
And in which you have no support system other than some local friends -thank God.

But I wonder if that might teach your son that his or your (or women's?) needs are not important. What will he learn from that?


In all my decisions now, including whether to be the one to file for divorce based on adultery or not, I am trying to do God's will. I've realised I'm at this point because I acted in a very selfish, immature, ungodly way before. I struggled for a long time, seeing this as punishment and being angry with God because it felt so unfair that I should be punished so harshly. But in the last day it's occurred to me that this is not God' punishment per se. It's just a natural consequence of my previous behaviour. Be unloving and be unloved. I am thinking this is why the Bible tries to guide us down a certain path - to act differently outside what is advised will be to reap, and sow, ill fortune. It's a road map to not creating our own misfortune.

I'm not a theologian but I have wracked my brain a lot about various situations and of course my own. I now wonder what God's will really was or if I convinced myself that b/c I had my own issues, and that was all I could really "do", that I focussed too much on my flaws and keeping our family intact - that when it came to piecing I didn't spend nearly the time needed to face what that would take. And h's mother became terminally ill shortly after we recon so we never really pieced.

I think you are overlooking a lot of what a real authentic marriage recon would require.

Not just your h's desire to recon...which would be a huge change in his trajectory.

But his coping skills ("I'm so needy for intimacy and can only get it sexually, so I cheat when I feel sad"??) would need to change BIG time,

He has parental role models who never changed their ways and who set a lousy example, & no one even talks about his mom's affair. WTF? IT's a family of secrets...

and he admitted he lies as a means of manipulating people.

Are you really okay with that? How will YOU feel in 5 years when you have the flu and don't have intimacy for a week and "he seems distant"??
If you think he makes you nuts now, with an open A, what would it really be like to live with this the rest of your life?

You can and should work on your stuff. You have work to do, ( I'm not someone who thinks it's fine to yell and get verbally abusive or ugly in fights and test my spouses commitment to the m. Plus we have kids watching us resolve conflict which every marriage has)...

Neither of you has gotten new tools for coping with hard times and conflict. Your h has had repeated affairs.

So imo, Restoring your marriage with your h as he is now, is pretty much impossible.

Maybe you got his best years...Did you say his OW checks his emails from you?

Wow, she must be super secure (not).

At some point they WILL disagree. How's he going to be new and different and learn healthy tools for that? OR will he?

2016, when you read Bluwave's thread I feel like your only focus was on her h coming back

But to ME the focus is that she's not feeling it for him the same way she wishes.

She no longer sees him as she once did...and her h is working hard!!

The man I married and deeply loved, is dead to me. I don't know when exactly he left the planet (marriage) but I know he's gone.

Because the man he is now, is not someone I'd date much and surely would not marry or have children with...so i'm trying to use this horrific ordeal as a transformative time in my life. (What healthy choice is there? AND yes, technically it would make it more likely that h would want to recon. I'm totally serious however, when I say I would not date this man. - I "never say never" - and I know miracles happen.

But I will not wait for it or even hope for it. I don't want it!

Sure I'd like to go back in time OR to the future I thought we were going to have...but NOT this. And I don't have a time machine.

So ask yourself whether the factors making you believe you want a recon are really about this man and this marriage, or whether they are the ones you have mentioned here in your thread...

you mention our egos being bruised -darn straight they are. Rejection $ucks. We hate being in the "loser" side of things.

And you had some abandonment issues, which maybe your IC can help with?

You have had panic attacks, (there are anti anxiety meds that are FOR panic attacks, and are unrelated to anti depressants)...

or try meditation and mindfulness - there are free apps on my iPhone e.g. "inside timer" is one that can get me off the ledge at times.

so there is a lot of fear ^^^ here.

We all fear change, and we all feel loss. All of us.

What can you do to address yours?

I have questions about my own situation and God.

My "Successful DBing" 10 years ago - was it real and or was it worth it?

YES I did keep my family intact until our last d went off to college and the girls were able to remain in the house they grew up in , and with friends for life...& that matters.

But what might I have shown them if I had chosen differently? I'll never know about that, but I can choose differently now.

You are a lot younger than I was/am. Lower your fears of being without your h.

You are without him now and you are still alive. Still capable of laughing and thinking and writing. Still breathing.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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My husband will have consequences of his own, but they will be specific to his actions. I think. I hope.
[/quote]



Life will show him the consequences of his choices. But you will be "evening out the score" on your side of things by living well. At peace with yourself, forgiven, and happy.

If your h is incapable of feeling any consequences (& he sees parents who SEEM not to have had any)

then he's not capable of a deep authentic marriage, to anyone.

My gut says his parents have a "cool/distant" marriage in which his mom may have had a revenge affair, or they both cheated...

(& Your h only knows part of the story - I'm pretty sure of that).

So They are a family of secrets, with a marriage in which shame keeps them from fully disclosing their truths.

How happy and joyful can that be? How real?

Maybe those are the consequences - but they are too ashamed to face or admit their pain or the lessons they learned.

And that's a consequence of it's own.



M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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I haven't posted in a very long time and have just revisited my thread for the first time since I last posted on it, i.e. May 2017.

25 - am staggered by your post. Your insight is amazing. It's like you know these people. Except there's role reversal. I think FIL was the one to have the revenge affair. I want to believe you when you say life will deliver its consequences to WH, but I can't at the moment.

Journaling update:

In May I went back home for a few weeks. During that time I hit rock bottom, i.e. came the closest to offing myself. I have never been in so much pain and felt so wretched. It felt like life had nothing to offer but more pain, more suffering, and I couldn't bear it anymore. But when the time came to take action, I found myself curiously detached. And that's when I realise I had hit rock bottom. It was almost a relief, to realise things couldn't get any worse.

I came back to the UK and slowly dragged myself up. Still dragging. To my colleagues at work, to the casual observer, I am a happy smiley person who loves a laugh at work and is always planning the next cup of tea. I've started remembering who I was when WH met me, and am started to reclaim that person. At that time I was a total badass. That girl wouldn't have stood for half the crap he's laid on me. Remembering her and feeling her faintly, a bit of swagger has come back. A bit.

I've stopped messing up at work and am GAL-ing constantly. It's not all about new activities, it's remembering the things I loved to do which fed my soul, things I stopped doing because WH didn't enjoy it or it took time away from WH. Simple things like going to the library and taking hours to choose a book. WH had a horror of the library, anything old or anything that might suggest he wasn't some super cool hipster. I reclaimed my theatre - I haven't been since WH left in 2016 because it was 'our' thing, but a couple of weeks ago I went by myself, sat in the third row and enjoyed it. I did feel sad, but also defiant. He's not taking my theatre from me - time to build new memories.

I am taking my son to Bath for the weekend next week. I am going to start exploring this country more, and go to places where I've never been with WH, to build up my bank of memories which are not connected to WH. I've thrown myself into the parents' social circle at son's school and go around introducing myself and organsing playdates. Today I sat down and booked kiddy theatre dates for the next 6 months.

If you have recently arrived to this board, my sympathies. I want to offer a word of encouragement - it gets better, albeit slowly. When I first started posting here I was constantly almost hysterical. I would spend half the day at work weeping in the bathroom or various unoccupied offices. I was so brittle with pain I felt on the verge of a nervous breakdown.

What changed? Detaching from WH. It hasn't been easy. And still ongoing. These last few months I could have written the anti-DB book, standing on my head - 'Pursuit': Volume 1. 'More pursuit': Volume 2. My IC said to me detaching doesn't happen in one fell swoop (if only). She described it very well - it's like pulling two pieces of velcro apart, slowly, painfully. That's what it's been like for me. It's helped that WH has been cruel, very cruel.

He told me about 6 weeks ago that OW is the love of his life (while she listened in), and that he was happier with her than he ever was with me, even at the best of times. When I heard him say that something in me died. I think it may have been my love for him.

He's changed his perception of things - when he first left he was solicitous of my well-being, buying me groceries, helping around the house. He sent me an email where he describes his guilt, how he would feel haunted by what he's done to me every minute of the day, how he would never stop thinking of me. I deleted it in a fit of pique. I wish I hadn't now because he's changed his tune. Apparently this is all my fault. I am such a hideous, horrible monster that I broke him and OW was his salvation - me, the evil witch has destroyed him and fair maiden OW has gently pieced him back together. Puke and double puke. On them.

Maybe I am an evil witch. I'm guessing a fair maiden would not double puke on anyone.

All this while I have been a stander, albeit a rubbish one. Right now, I'm not sure anymore. I've come back to the boards to update my sitch because I am struggling with this new phase I am going through, which is total and utter hatred for WH. My hate is pure, deep and black. The only thing which surpasses my hatred for WH is my love for our son, and the desire to have him with me all the time instead of half the time. For the first time though, that love only exceeds my hatred by something like 5% now. I see the person I will become if I continue on this path - she's bitter and twisted. WH will take my soul if I don't fight this.

My stand has also been compromised by my faith. It remains but is shaken. WH is happy. I know I am supposed to focus on myself only, but it's not easy when I have to see him swanning around at least once a week.

I am a massive fan of poster PsySara who has displayed, to me, an amazing amount of restraint, calmness and love. I thought I had it in me to emulate her, but as time went on and my WH distanced himself further despite my working on myself, all the time and oh so hard, I've become disillusioned, and over time, bitterness has crept in.

Fellow standers - how do you do it? Issues of hatred for WH aside, I feel disappointed in God. I get sent endless devotionals from well meaning friends about how much God loves me etc, but the God I experience is silent and indifferent. I am SO tired of people telling me God wants me to work on myself first before changing my husband. Sorry, but isn't adultery kind of a big no-no in the Bible? They stoned you for that kind of crap, old school style. I'm not asking for a stoning, just a gentle ass-kicking. I would be satisfied with withdrawal of privileges. But nope - privileges abound. It's p!ssing me off.


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Originally Posted By: 2016sux
Issues of hatred for WH aside, I feel disappointed in God.


I understand. I'm not a big fan of supernatural omnipotent beings in general. Something just seems suspicious. Apparently, the number one sky dwelling creature in my part of the world had to knock-up a virgin to have a son that would get himself killed in order to save humanity. In my opinion, that sounds a tad kinky, if not downright ridiculous. But, you know, to each his own.

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Ok doodler, I've got to hand it to you. Blasphemy aside, you've given me my first real laugh of the day. Hats off.


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