Cali, thanks. Really trying to get rid of expectations and dropping the rope? I know I'm not there yet.
V Day - we are having a family celebration with the kids, nothing romantic.
Q of the day: why does my W keep telling me she loves me? And what am I supposed to say when she does?
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Cali, thanks. Really trying to get rid of expectations and dropping the rope? I know I'm not there yet.
Hey Gordie...
I'm just catching up on your thread. Your posts have kinda jumped out when I have been perusing a bit. I'm not on much anymore, yet this place was a lifeline a few years back.
I think you are doing well for just being at the 6 month mark. And I agree that you need to start moving forward with and for yourself. Focusing on the things that fulfill you.
What do you see, or perhaps what would you like to see for yourself down the road ?
What kind of person do you want to show the world ?
Dropping the rope, lowering expectations, all of the cliche quote stuff, is hard to put into action.
All of that ^^^ ?
What it really all means is that you live your life for yourself, not in a selfish way either. Just in a way that feeds your soul, being happy because you are, or going hiking because it is what you want to do, or seeking Bigfoot because you have always wanted to.
It is is about becoming detached from the crazy...
It is about making decisions NOT to induce a reaction, but rather, regardless the reaction.
It is about walking through life, not looking behind you to see if your WAS is following you....
When I read your advice to others, you present differently then what I read about yourself.
It's much harder to put into action for yourself than it is to see others situations so clearly.
Mainly because of the emotional attachment to your situation..
So maybe start small, working towards who you want to be....
Work on some goals that don't tie you to having a spouse..
Focus on the small things that will leave you fulfilled, and leave behind the schidt that is dragging you backward.
Like you, I have dealt with the abandonment issues. They are hard to work through...
Good book ???
Yea...just google ...
abandonment journey Anderson Susan healing
That should get you there.....
Mirage ? Cali ???
Two good dudes there....you can learn a lot from them...
Mach1: I'm not on much anymore, yet this place was a lifeline a few years back.
Gordie: Thanks for coming back!
Mach1: I think you are doing well for just being at the 6 month mark. And I agree that you need to start moving forward with and for yourself. Focusing on the things that fulfill you.
Gordie: Yes, all the vets are telling me that...(I'm slow!) that I'm too focused on my W...so I'm trying to reorient that...It's a really hard change for me because my whole identity and conception of my life and future is wrapped up in this H-W relationship...I have never even conceived of a future without that H-W relationship at the center of my life...and now I am forced to face that hard reality...moving forward with and for myself (though she's right over there, on the other side of the bed...argh)...
Mach1: What do you see, or perhaps what would you like to see for yourself down the road ? What kind of person do you want to show the world ? Dropping the rope, lowering expectations, all of the cliche quote stuff, is hard to put into action. All of that ^^^ ? What it really all means is that you live your life for yourself, not in a selfish way either.
Gordie: Hmmm...I think you just mentioned something I hadn't considered a roadblock before...that I consider this idea of "living life for myself" as somehow selfish...need to chew on that...I know part of the reason why it grates on me the wrong way is that is because my W tells me..."I need to live for myself now..." and isn't that attitude what got us in this mess?
Mach1: Just in a way that feeds your soul, being happy because you are, or going hiking because it is what you want to do, or seeking Bigfoot because you have always wanted to. It is is about becoming detached from the crazy...
Gordie: Yes, I have realized that I haven't been feeding my soul independently. I think I wrongly depended on/expected that to come from my relationship with my W...
Mach1: It is about making decisions NOT to induce a reaction, but rather, regardless the reaction.
Gordie: Yes, this is good advice. I think when I started applying some of the DB tactics to my relationships...EVERYTHING was being done to induce a reaction...less so now, but I must admit, I'm still hoping for positive reactions/responses from my W...
Mach1: It is about walking through life, not looking behind you to see if your WAS is following you....
Gordie: Guilty! I can't keep my eyes off of what she is doing and how she is interacting with me...
Mach1: When I read your advice to others, you present differently then what I read about yourself. It's much harder to put into action for yourself than it is to see others situations so clearly. Mainly because of the emotional attachment to your situation...
Gordie: Ouch, that hurt...yes, it's so much easier to give advice to others...than to follow it...
Mach1: So maybe start small, working towards who you want to be....Work on some goals that don't tie you to having a spouse...Focus on the small things that will leave you fulfilled, and leave behind the schidt that is dragging you backward.
Gordie: Yes! For me, the creative side of my life/soul has been most helpful in this...it was a big part of my life before I met my W, but because she isn't into that stuff, it atrophied...and now that I'm resuming, it's one thing that I am doing for me that has nothing to do with her...
Mach1: Like you, I have dealt with the abandonment issues. They are hard to work through...Good book...
Gordie: I will look that one up!
Mach1: Mirage ? Cali ? Two good dudes there....you can learn a lot from them...
Gordie: Yes, they have been awesome commentators.
Mach1: So what are some goals that are just for you ??? What are some things that feed your soul ???
Gordie: I'm taking this as homework...will report back with a more thoughtful response...
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Gordie: Yes, all the vets are telling me that...(I'm slow!) that I'm too focused on my W...so I'm trying to reorient that...It's a really hard change for me because my whole identity and conception of my life and future is wrapped up in this H-W relationship...I have never even conceived of a future without that H-W relationship at the center of my life...and now I am forced to face that hard reality...moving forward with and for myself (though she's right over there, on the other side of the bed...argh)...
Mach1: What do you see, or perhaps what would you like to see for yourself down the road ? What kind of person do you want to show the world ? Dropping the rope, lowering expectations, all of the cliche quote stuff, is hard to put into action. All of that ^^^ ? What it really all means is that you live your life for yourself, not in a selfish way either.
Gordie: Hmmm...I think you just mentioned something I hadn't considered a roadblock before...that I consider this idea of "living life for myself" as somehow selfish...need to chew on that...I know part of the reason why it grates on me the wrong way is that is because my W tells me..."I need to live for myself now..." and isn't that attitude what got us in this mess?
I think that a lot of what you have said here comes down to a couple things....
First of all...
YOU are still seeing things / and thinking things as if you are still married.
Married in the sense that there are still two people in a committed relationship who are working things out.
That really isn't the case once one reaches these boards in most instances.
YOU are here, thinking in those terms...
While SHE is seeing herself as a single Woman, in search of fulfilling her heart...
Nothing is off the table for her, including having OM in her life. Because she sees herself single...
Secondly...
Being selfish is always that fine line that most guys face when they are an LBS.
Are we being selfish by taking care of ourselves first ?
So lemme ask you this...
If you allow ( yes I said allow) yourself to be run into the ground and dragged through the mud, without taking care of who you are at your core beliefs....
What do you have left to hand down to your kiddos, or whatever relationship that you WILL have in the future ? ( and yes, your next relationship can be with your current spouse)
Where would say that the line is, between being selfish and working towards being emotionally healthy ??
what is the difference ?
Many of us here have been accused of that by our WAS , and it is only through doing the work and being totally honest with ourselves that we can clearly see what is real, and what is script from them.
Mostly, the selfish talk from a MLCer is projection from them...
So try to avoid getting drawn into HER vortex.
It is why I said to stop looking behind you, because she is keeping you from finding the true, authentic you....
Dang Mach...Great words of wisdom. And true of most of these situations here.
Me 49 W46 T25 M22 S22 D18 S13 W had EA Apr-Jul 2016 Dropped Bomb 7/9/16 ILYBINILWYA HER DIVORCE IS FINAL...8/18/17 Dropping the rope to SURVIVE & THRIVE!!!
Q of the day: why does my W keep telling me she loves me? And what am I supposed to say when she does?
My STBXW has said similar things. I love you. You're the best. Recently, You're the only decent man I've had a relationship with, all the others were a$$holes.
You and I have feelings that are governed strongly by reason. But not everybody is that way. They feel certain emotions incredibly strongly, and it does not necessarily have to make sense. I believe your W does indeed love you. But there is a part of her brain that fails to light up when she thinks about you. And she is seeking the emotional drug that will make that part of her brain light up. There is no X therefore Y therefore Z. It just is "Z". She just feels it.
It's like how some dogs will eat a full bag of dogfood until they get sick, and it doesn't matter how many times they've done it already. I don't mean to make a pejorative comparison. I bring it up because so many of us have dogs, love dogs, and understand how their minds work. There is no logic there; they just feel it.
What to say? Probably the DB mantra: I love you too. I'm sorry you feel so hopeless about our marriage, but I think a divorce is the wrong answer to our problems. It's no silver bullet, but nothing is, nothing can be, but time and they themselves hitting rock bottom on their own terms.
My two cents.
Me: 50, MLC/WW 45 Young kids Nov 2015: BD1 Apr 2016: BD2 Jan 2017: W filed Feb 2017: D final
ForGump: You and I have feelings that are governed strongly by reason.
SBJ: Isn't that the main difference between men and women? Reason vs Emotion
ForGump: I bring it up because so many of us have dogs, love dogs, and understand how their minds work. There is no logic there; they just feel it.
SBJ: I also have doges, but don't seem to understand them any more that my W. Then again, they are all female as well. HAHA!
Maybe that has something to do with it.
Me 49 W46 T25 M22 S22 D18 S13 W had EA Apr-Jul 2016 Dropped Bomb 7/9/16 ILYBINILWYA HER DIVORCE IS FINAL...8/18/17 Dropping the rope to SURVIVE & THRIVE!!!
You and I have feelings that are governed strongly by reason. But not everybody is that way. They feel certain emotions incredibly strongly, and it does not necessarily have to make sense. I believe your W does indeed love you. But there is a part of her brain that fails to light up when she thinks about you. And she is seeking the emotional drug that will make that part of her brain light up. There is no X therefore Y therefore Z. It just is "Z". She just feels it.
I would agree that's pretty close.....
I would add that an MLCer acts totally on emotion...
What we might see as rational behavior or decisions would be a complete afterthought to an MLCer.
And no dis-respect to our superior gender here, but understanding the Venus and Mars stuff will go a long way too.
All Women tend to deal with the emotional side of a problem before they can start to deal with the rational side of a problem...
And it works in every aspect of life. The part that should be noticed first is the part that it is often overlooked the most.
At some point in time, most of us guys have heard our spouse say " all you ever want me for is sex"..
And for them, it is a very true, because they aren't "feeling" the connection...
Women NEED the emotional connection in order to fuel the physical connection...
For us ?
It's the same yet completely opposite. We have to have the physical part BEFORE we can deal with the emotional part.
So, back around to your side of the barn...
In understanding the above...
And knowing that an MLCer runs on pure emotion...
IF you were to add those two together ???
What would you think that the inside of her brain looks like most days ???
I would suggest reading about Venus and Mars...
It's a good read and will give you tools to carry in the future with you....
Mach1: YOU are still seeing things / and thinking things as if you are still married. Married in the sense that there are still two people in a committed relationship who are working things out. That really isn't the case once one reaches these boards in most instances. YOU are here, thinking in those terms...
Gordie: 2x4--thanks! I needed that. I still totally, absolutely, consciously consider myself a married man...
Mach1: While SHE is seeing herself as a single Woman, in search of fulfilling her heart...Nothing is off the table for her, including having OM in her life. Because she sees herself single...
Gordie: Wow, this is so obvious...yet when you put it that way...so eye opening; it hurts...
Mach1: Being selfish is always that fine line that most guys face when they are an LBS. Are we being selfish by taking care of ourselves first? So lemme ask you this...If you allow ( yes I said allow) yourself to be run into the ground and dragged through the mud, without taking care of who you are at your core beliefs....What do you have left to hand down to your kiddos, or whatever relationship that you WILL have in the future ? ( and yes, your next relationship can be with your current spouse) Where would say that the line is, between being selfish and working towards being emotionally healthy ?? what is the difference ?
Gordie: You know, I really don't know...maybe it's not a fine line/black and white between selfish and selfless...maybe it's a really large grey area...and feel that it's right to be in that grey space...but I am too close to the selfless part (to my own detriment)...and need to move closer to the selfish part (for my own self preservation/not losing myself)...
Mach1: Many of us here have been accused of that by our WAS , and it is only through doing the work and being totally honest with ourselves that we can clearly see what is real, and what is script from them. Mostly, the selfish talk from a MLCer is projection from them...
Gordie: I spend a lot of time replaying all of our conversations and her spew...and trying to determine the real criticisms that need to be worked on...and the ones that should be ignored...there are some things that are easy to determine...some that are harder...
Mach1: So try to avoid getting drawn into HER vortex. It is why I said to stop looking behind you, because she is keeping you from finding the true, authentic you....Gordie....This time is for YOU....
Gordie: Thanks, man! You have no idea how helpful this is to me, to get your POV and advice. I don't even know who the true, authentic me is anymore...which I guess is your point. I have to go find him...do the hard work and find that guy that got lost.
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
ForGump: I believe your W does indeed love you. But there is a part of her brain that fails to light up when she thinks about you. And she is seeking the emotional drug that will make that part of her brain light up. There is no X therefore Y therefore Z. It just is "Z". She just feels it.
Gordie: Thanks for this. And in her own way, W's tried to tell me this: this isn't rational, but I have to follow my heart. But doesn't this make you want to scream: LOVE ISN'T FEELINGS! LOVE IS A CHOICE. IT'S A COMMITMENT WE MADE TO ONE ANOTHER. IT'S A COMMITMENT WE MADE TO THE CHILDREN WE BROUGHT INTO THIS WORLD! WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU? Of course, I have never said those things...in fact, I never raise my voice.
ForGump: What to say? Probably the DB mantra: I love you too. I'm sorry you feel so hopeless about our marriage, but I think a divorce is the wrong answer to our problems. It's no silver bullet...
Gordie: You think it's ok to say I love you too? Why add the I'm sorry part?
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
