This used to be easier - and a lot more fun, cont.

[DonH]

Here's the previous post.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2710427#Post2710427

Hope everyone will continue here as clearly I'm not done yet.

[whatisis]

Don, it's hard to know the answer. I know myself when I'm doing that online thing which will never be mentioned again on your thread (lol) I've had times where 8 or 10 women don't answer and I wonder what I'm doing wrong...and then 15 in a row will all answer and I can't keep up! So maybe it's just a matter of pushing through those lean times until things turn around. And as I've said before, it often has nothing to do with what you are doing or not doing...that's what makes people such a pain in the @ss lol. You're not pathetic!

[DonH]

I actually did laugh out loud at the OLD reference. I actually love humor so no issue there - the key is things actually being funny, or at least me finding them funny. .

Was with you on getting no responses. But then 15 respond in a row? Um yeah, can't say I have any clue what that feels like. My friend on Friday suggested I try OLD again - I'm like, yeah, NO! I have clearly done much better in real life - and that's nothing to get excited about so imagine what my OLD expierence was like. I do keep hearing commercials for its just lunch, but not sure about that either.

I know I'm not pathetic but really have started feeling that way. Hell if I were reading this, I'd think it about the guy writing it! Lol

[SUMMER]

AND I play sax in bands about 90 times a year - mostly within an hour of my house. I travel out of state about a dozen times a year.

It comes down to priorities. The more you write about your lifestyle -- the more it sounds, despite what you say, as if you really do not have room in your life for a serious relationship.

You argue that you do -- but you prioritize your music gigs, as you have since you were in your 20's. And that's fine. It's the mainstay of your life and something you value and enjoy and said you're unwilling to give up or alter. Nor do you see why you should -- and you shouldn't if you don't want to.

But 90 gigs a year is A LOT of time devoted to one thing. And if you travel out of state about 12x a year -- that's essentially once a month. And even if 80 are within an hour of your home -- that still involves traveling.

Time is our most valuable commodity-- and if you evaluate your life -- you'd acknowledge that your music gigs have consumed a large bite of your life.

Everyone has "something" they prioritized -- that eats up the majority of their life. For some it's their work, for some their children, for some their hobbies, for some their community activities etc.

You seem to think you don't have to make any changes in your life to achieve a different result.

But you know what Albert Einstein said: "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."


We're all on a spiritual path -- and we stay stuck where we are until we learn the lessons of the challenge.

Many people just keep going around the same mountain over and over and over b/c they refuse to consider trying some new avenue to conquer it.

Eventually most people decide to stop circling the mountain -- and finally decide to climb the mountain instead of circling it -- or just decide to drill right through it!

When you're ready to make the necessary changes -- you will -- and then you'll get new results.

Good luck!

[job]

Don,

Thank you for linking your threads and fixing your signature line. I greatly appreciate you doing these things for me.

[Georgiabelle]

Hi Don,

OMG! You have received stellar feedback from everyone and I hope you are feeling a bit better. I felt compelled to chime in as I haven't been here in a while.

I agree with lots of being said here. You may overestimate someone's interest (I always assume that people aren't interested in me-different ball of wax). I am rather gregarious and it has caused people to think I was interested when I was not. I am always a bit surprised because *I" don't think that way. However, when I step back, I do understand why someone might get the wrong impression. I will not stop being friendly and you should approach people as well. Rejections stings like a bee ya know? But in the words of Kanye West, "That that don't kill me.. Can only make me stronger..." Enough on Kanye:)

And I do agree, that you should live your life. I mean, we are only going around once so you may as well enjoy it, right? I have a good friend who is single and 39. She wants to get married and have kids. She just started dating a man with kids and here is something she is struggling with at this time. She is having a difficult time with the fact that he only sees her every other weekend. He has primary custody of his 3 young kids and a very busy job that requires travel each week. And he lives an hour a way. And here is the deal...he may like her. He may even grow to love her. But getting the kind of his time that she wants may be super duper challenging. By all accounts, he seems like a great guy. He is just busy. She will have to decide whether or not she likes him "enough" to continue this new R, because his life is not changing anytime soon. It is what it is and IMHO, it's kind of on her as to whether to keep investing. If she goes, awesome. If she doesn't, no harm-no foul. But she shouldn't get upset that his life is very full because he is pretty transparent. This doesn't mean he isn't worthy of love or a R, but it may be more challenging for him to balance one right now.

What may seem different is that you too are busy. However, you are a little bit older without small kids. It does sound like you have some wonderful hobbies and that you are committed to pursuing those. And it sounds like you are at a stage where you are looking for a R that is a bit easier? We all have baggage and some wonderful poster (sorry-I don't recall who) said it is how we deal with said baggage which says a lot about us. My point is...Let's say I am a late 40s, early 50s woman and I think you are a great guy. If the activities are first priority, then I would wonder how serious you were about having a real R. I might think you are looking for companionship on your terms. Nothing wrong with that but it may be confusing to women. By all means, have fun and continue with hobbies. Just know that if that is the impression you give off, then it might be off putting to people looking for a serious R.

I hope that made sense. Happy Valentine's Day peeps! Love to you all.

[Vanilla]

Please don't over think this. It's quite simple really.

All you need is one love 2ho loves you back. Not lots of lovely ladies just one special one.

Relax into it, that's what is needed, relaxation.

Observe mode and a new hair cut.

Hugs

V

[DonH]

Thank you Vanilla for your kind words. In just being brutely honest, which is the only way I know how to be, I don't often connect with your writing, but this one I clearly did. I also know others greatly due so it's not you as likely as it is me. Either way I thank you - and I totally agree.

I thank the others as well. I first started to respond several days ago after Summer's latest post, but then thought I'd wait to see what others had to say and I also didn't want to "shoot down" suggestions, etc. I really am trying to be open minded about all of this. Turns out, I should not have waited.

Thing is, and I should be much more numb to this and usually am as for whatever reason most people just don't get it, but music and 90 gigs a hear IS NOT A HOBBY! It is my JOB - J-O-B my job, accounting currently for about 40% of my annual income. For whatever reason people think it's a hobby - why is that??? I guess because for many it is. Not in my case. I've spent a lot of time honing my skills, lessons, even working to improve after 35 years, practicing, etc. I rarely if ever perform for free. Now, totally, it's a lot of fun, it really is and I won't deny that. I get to travel to and attend all sorts of things that people pay to do but I get paid to do it! But I'm just lucky enough to have a great job but it really is a job at times - very much so. Most people would never call my work as a paramedic a "hobby" but actually, that was more a hobby than the music is as for a good part of the time, I was a volunteer firefighter/paramedic. I just happened to also do that as a profession for a while too.

It bothers me that someone would not even want to try dating me because they THINK these things but obviously they do - that was just proven by several of you thinking that very thing. But asking me to cut back on gigs is in a way asking one of you to start working part-time rather than your full-time job.

Thing is, if I find someone to spend more time with, I most certainly can and will cut back on that. In fact, while I was married and the kids were active in many things and we did things as a family, I had cut way back to between a dozen and 20 gigs a year. I was also working full-time plus as the executive director of a state organization, therefore my income was still solid. So I can and will do that again - but do I really have to do that BEFORE I find someone? Really? So give up part of my employment in HOPES of finding someone? That seems backwards to me.

However, you guys are not wrong in your view of how things sit now, I would not have a lot of time for a woman - well duh, I don't have a woman and I'm not about to sit home doing nothing so I fill that time. That said, I'm not sure I want an R where we are together every day. I'd be fine with every other weekend and have actually done that a few times in years past with women who had kids so we saw each other when they were with their dad as I'm HUGE about not involving kids in early Rs.

Will I be able to find that? Clearly if the past several years are any indication - the answer is no. But as V says, it only takes one. I don't want multiple - I really don't. The only reason that has somewhat happened is due to it being casual with all of them or long distance. There is only one real connection (at least on my part) and she is the one 10 hours away.

I have been told over and over again that there are women out there who want the same thing that I want. Others say they don't exist. It's also clear that some don't know what they want or say one thing when they really want the other. They claim they just wan occasional and casual, etc. and then meet someone who they then want to marry. I've had several claim they have no interest in getting married again but then change their mind - or get honest???? In other words they always did, but were not being honest about it? Some claim they don't want kids, are done with that, have no desire but then have or adopt a baby. My exW would fall in that category - first trying to get pregnant at 48 and then adopting at 49.

So that's where it is. I know this is all helping so I thank you all for it. I can't say it's making me feel better but oftentimes things like this make you feel worse in the short-term but are necessary and make you feel and do better over the long-term. Time will tell. The latest woman I met at the event I did three weeks ago, who I'm honestly still not convinced is not gay, just asked me to do lunch which is now morphing into taking a long walk together in place of or in addition to. Hmmmmmm, almost sounds like that let it happen naturally, thing you've been suggesting. No expectations - in fact, even less in this case given my suspicions.

Other areas of my life are getting challenging as well. I see change coming. We'll see. Again, I want to be as clear as I can that I greatly appreciate everyone's input - I don't want any of my comments to appear otherwise.

[Vanilla]

Don

Really the music is you and you are the music. It is as much a part of you as breathing. That is definitely not worth compromising over for an R.

I go dancing, not as often as I used to do, but it is core to me. I would never give that up now for an R. I need a dancer in my life.

Hens teeth?

Possibly.

Where do you go to find dancers? Heck dances.

I jive, salsa, Tango. I am not the best but I love it.

One day it will be ok. I am Ok alone in due course I will want to have a new love. My fins, the Giggalo, the state of my body doesn't permit that yet.

I am still on my journey.

I only need one who is crazy loco for me and visa versa.

V

[Vanilla]

If you don't connect with my writing it's because the message wasn't for you.

As a bulldog once said 'gobble gook' or was that gook gobble? I forget.

But that's ok I forgive you.......

Lol

It's going to be fine, relax and let it all unfold in time.

Do you play Mustang Sally? If you do think of V jiving away to her favourite track and supporting you all the way.

A wonderful guy like Don will find his one and it will be worth it.

V

[DonH]

Yeah Mustang Sally would fall into the category of standards - some might say classics - songs that many many bands tend to play.

I hate and I really don't hate much - but I hate to dance. Lol. Yep a musician who does lay like to dance - actually there are many of us. So I'd not be a fit for a women who lives to dance and wants a partner. Still I'd never suggest you give up dancing for a guy. I totally understand it takes a bit of an extra fit for my lifestyle. The thing is, there are also huge upsides. If someone asked me to do something Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday of this week, I could very likely make it happen. Not many guys can do that.

I fully get it takes the right fit. And I am also picky. Totally get al of it. I even totally get it will take time. But 5 or 6 years? Really? Three or four Rs in 10 years - most 3-6 months and one 9, which was the last one, 3.5 years ago. I don't have forever. I was divorced at 43 and will turn 54 in a few months. Time is not standing still here. I can never get these years and everything in them back. That's what concerns me most.

[Dawgs]

fully get it takes the right fit. And I am also picky. Totally get al of it. I even totally get it will take time. But 5 or 6 years? Really? Three or four Rs in 10 years - most 3-6 months and one 9, which was the last one, 3.5 years ago. I don't have forever. I was divorced at 43 and will turn 54 in a few months. Time is not standing still here. I can never get these years and everything in them back. That's what concerns me most.

This is screaming.

[exquisitetobe]

You are 1 relationship above me. 3 for 8 years are my stat.
My longest was also 9 months.

Out of those 4 relationship, did you have a common obstacle?

When meeting women, are you clear on what a relationship means to you and the kind of relationship you want?

In my experiences, one wanted the "your place, my place" and we do some things together... To me, this is called a friendship.

Another one was willing to move in asap. He wanted ALL OF ME, ALL OF MY TIME AND ATTENTION but he was also bashing all our friends and none of them were good enough for us.. REALLY?? Those people who have welcomed me and him to their table for the past 5 years are no longer good enough?? I don' t think so..

The third one.. well this one was actually my first relationship after the divorce. He was just right. He thought I hit the jackpot. Until I found out about his WIFE.. He was married!! That was the end of that..

Common obstacle in all 3 were: My 4 kids. My lack of time for the relationship. This came up in all 3. Even though I was very clear of my situation, it still came up.

Conclusion for me: Relationship is sitting on the shelf for later. I was blessed with 4 children and I am their role model and sole parent they can count on. My priority is them.

What we were looking for in our younger years and what we want now is totally different. The goal is not the same. The relationship is not the same. We are not looking to build a future and family.. We have this.. What are we really looking for then?? Ask this question to the ladies you meet.. You will get a multitude of answers. And then, watch their actions. You will soon realize that many people in our age group do not know what they want!! Many are looking for what is missing in their life at that SPECIFIC time you asked. exemple: she is feeling lonely, she' ll tell you she wants companionship. She feels busy, strong, and independent,, she' ll tell you she wants someone to do things with "at times".. she feels overwhelm, she' ll tell you she wants some to hold and hugs..

All these things are normal.. Once you enter the relationship, you need to pay attention and deliver.. same for her.. TIME AND DEVOTION DON.. if you do not put in the time, you will not get the result you are looking for..

[DonH]

"This is screaming."

Care to expand and explain these four words? Screaming what?

[Vanilla]

I am going to let you into a couple of big secrets.

The girls you liked at 20, 30, 40 and yes 54. They are still there older and wiser. It is easier as you get older, truly it is. Even V gets asked out these days although she isn't ready yet to date, maybe never will be, who knows!

They are still there. On British TV there was a really excellent documentary, I do at 92. And of course you can do.

You are still too young for a new R, truly your young spirit is restless. Which reminds me do you play Spirit in the Sky?

Another great fave of V.

I cast iron Internet guarrantee that when you have reach the ready stage, the steady stage will come. Go with it and flow, enjoy, none of it is a waste. Your life isn't just an R, it is you living and being you.

V

[DonH]

And we're back to me reading and thinking, huh????????????

Lol, sorry not following most of that. I can't agree with "it gets easier as we get older" in fact, have you read the title of these last two entire threads? This used to be EASIER - not this is getting easier!

Yes I still have the memories but all I know is my first 8 cruises with someone were much more fun than the 9th by myself. So much so I didn't even go on the 10th even though I ORGANIZED IT! I didn't want a repeat of #9 and try as I might I could not find a friend to go along - never mind a romantic friend - just any friend male or female.

Spirit in the sky does not ring a bell but then again I don't know a lot of the titles. Tell me what key and count it off and I can likely fake it! .

[Georgiabelle]

Hi Don,

I heart exquisite lobe's post. V makes some good points. I may be a dissenter here but I'm not sure dating is easier now, it is just different. Everyone has baggage. I suppose the thing is that some of us can handle another's baggage better than another's baggage. And of course, how we handle our own baggage factors in as well. I *do* think dating is different when you are not necessarily looking to get married and have kids. Or maybe you would consider marriage but it isn't necessarily the end goal.

I think your experiences are normal. Yes, some people date while married, shortly after divorce, periodic dating, and some don't date period. I do get a bit annoyed when folks act like if you aren't dating then "you are missing out" and "you must get back on the horse." I think I am in no place to judge or decide when anyone should date-except for myself. We are all different and people do things at different speeds. Again, you experiences don't strike me as out of the ordinary.

Everyone has a heart attack over that word picky. I see all of these long lists for what people want and for some, I think that works. I think most people have some non-negotiables and a few really need to haves. I think we take a look at ourselves and recognize what we can work on and then also realize there are some things that probably won't change. For example, I am super duper independent (been that way since I was a kid) and very quirky. While most men that I have dated, say initially how much they love my independence, they also have all said in very loud voices at times, "You are so independent!!! It drives me crazy!!" I do try to catch myself with the independence thing and realize that it's okay to occasionally ask for help. The quirky thing? Nope. I'm good with it so there is no desire to change. My issue is that I am very, very rarely attracted to people. I can agree they are attractive people but *I' am not attracted to most people. Almost never. Literally. And add in the fact that I am older (this was not as big of an issue when I was younger) that on the off chance I am attracted to him, there is a very, very real chance it may not be reciprocated. It's a bit of a barrier and I have seen a therapist off an on over this (it's heavily tied to my ED). I can work with it, however, it is an ongoing thing. I'm aware of it, however, it is a challenge.

So, my question to you, is what do you want? What are you looking for? No wrong answers because it only matters what you want-not what any of us want for you. Do you want a life partner? A gf? A casual R? Open to all of those?

I like "Spirit in the Sky" as well. Nice one hit wonder call, V:)

[DonH]

I can and do relate with much of what you write Georgiabelle. We also may be somewhat alike. I too am extremely independent and always have been. My mom tells me that from toddler on "I do it myself" was in my vocabulary. While I don't at all think of myself as quirky, I have had at least some people say otherwise. I've never been the guy that people take to or really like right away. Those who get to know me and "get me" tend to love me. Most of my good friends would tell you that - it took a while to understand me, but once they did... Perhaps that is quirky? I just don't see it like I do with others.

I am also picky but not in a purposeful way, if that makes sense. I just like what I like and I know it when I see it. It may not even be the same from person to person. Finally, again like you, I also am not attracted to most people. Do I look like a f'kin people person? and have a T-Shirt that says just that, given to me by a friend who does get me.

So put that altogether and... I am pretty sure I've written my 50/40/10 assessment on here but it bares repeating. Talking in general terms with all people - not just women who could be potential dates - 50% of those I meet I would rather not even talk to. I don't get their jokes, I don't get their small talk. We have little in common. I don't try to feel this way - I just do. 40% I will get to know, don't mind doing things now and then but would not want to go on vacation with them for example - other than in a large group. Then there are the 10% ers. If you are a 10% er I will do just about anything for you. I enjoy doing things, will stay in contact, you are the first person I'll gravitate to in a room. I have very diverse friends but only a few close ones. It's again been this way much of my life. There are people I just love to do things with but they are the 10% which means there are not a lot to chose from. Many are married, some still have kids or now getting grand kids, etc. So I don't have a huge circle - just a good one.

I hate going places by myself unless I have a reason to be there. Show up at a bar or a meeting by myself? Id' rather go to the dentist - unless I'm giging at the bar, running the meeting or at least speaking at it, etc. Otherwise I much rather have a friend with me. So that's one thing I'd rather not do by myself. Projects, etc. even exploring fun cool places - like say Washington DC I'd sort of rather do by myself - just not group tours, etc. Cruises, bars, social things, I hate doing by myself and want someone with me.

Does this make me quirky?

So what do I want? Well if I could just order her up, she would be pretty independent, not need me but want to be with me. Casual would be fine, committed but not so intertwined that I'm obligated or expected to be there all the time would be great. I'd be fine with "girlfirend" I never say never but can't at all see myself getting married again. What is the point at my age? I could certainly see living with someone but that would likely be the farthest step I'd go. I want someone who is honest and that I can trust. That's nearly impossible to find right there. I find people are not even honest with themselves so how can they be honest with me? I can take pretty much any honesty but cannot stand dishonesty. I also have a GREAT BS detector so I typically can tell when I'm being lied to. I only have truly 2.5 "deal breakers. Smoking is one - just can't, cannot, will not, just no!!! Dishonesty. You may get one pass with me but lie to me and it's likely over. And then the 1/2 is large tattoos. Whatever - that may be pretty lame but just can't hold hands with someone with a snake on her arm or coming off her boobs or a tramp stamp above her butt. Thing is, I'll bet you dollars to donuts she won't meet the other stuff anyhow. A little this or that in otherwise somewhat hidden places, ankles, yeah, that's fine. Not for me, would not suggest it but not a deal breaker and have dated women like this.

Does that answer it? Beyond that, the type of person - intelligence, confidence, educated (usually but common sense and intelligence are more important). Reasonably good looking and in decent shape. I have no problems and actually some attraction to what some call "thick" but rolls, sorry. Not huge on over-done girly girls or plastic surgery either. The more natural look attracts me more. That said, the looks are more negotiable than the person and personality. It won't matter what she looks like if we can't hold a conversation, she is klingy, filled with drama, etc. It just won't matter. On the other hand if she fits emotionally, it won't matter near as much what she looks like.

For whatever reason I've always fit with those younger than me. My exW was only one year younger - nearly to the day. But many GF and dates were and still have been younger - though not all. I don't look for it, it just sort of happens. I remember having a 20 year old GF when I was 27. We only dated through the summer until she returned to college. Oddly enough we reconnected and dated for 9 months 3.5 years ago until she decided to remarry her ex husband. They had 3 kids and I just backed out - was the right thing to do. At this point I can't see being with someone younger than 40 so when I say younger - it still is within reason. Actually 45 is more accurate but it's again more who the person is.

Does that help? If not, what did I miss? Ask and I shall tell.

[Georgiabelle]

Oh wow, Don, thanks for the insightful post. I would like to say that I am super chatty today and I have no idea if what I have to say is of any value. I am always fascinated by different personalities here so some of what you said does not match up to the image (darn cyberspace) of what I had of you. My mistake with preconceived notions. When I think "musician" I have a tendency to think a certain personality which just proves that we are all unique.

I understand the wanting to do social things with someone. I am described by people as super outgoing (although I think of myself as just more chatty) and a free spirit. I like lots of people. The idea of them touching me is an entirely different issue and I admit my issue is much deeper than an attraction thing. However, I really am cool with being by myself doing social things. Projects? I would rather do those with someone. I will provide humor, cocktails, and music because I can't imaging anyone wanting me to help with stuff like that.

Anyway, I know some people have said you may come across as "too anxious" which may or may not be true. However, I always find it interesting when the "too anxious" people often are the people who are good with casual. Which is totally cool. Look, I understand why people want to get married again, don't want to marry again, want to date, don't date, etc. Really, it actually all makes sense to me.

I have no clue but maybe that is a piece of it? Some women may think you want x, when in reality you are okay with y. I don't want to speak badly of my gender, but I have noticed that women (or at least the ones I know) are not great at understanding men as a whole. And while most of the men I know say women are confusing, they generally have a good read of them unless they have been in a basement for 17 years with no contact with humans. I'm guessing that more women are open to a LTR whereas some men may want to play the field a bit more or feel they have more options as far as relationship choices. There are people for everyone-regardless of the situation they seek. If you are online dating, then I would definitely say you are open to the type of R you seek. Yes, some women will see casual and think "booty call" although some women are okay with casual. I just think honesty is key. Sorry I can't offer more insight on OLD. I only did it for a few weeks.

You do give great insight on peeps' sitches. You sound like a great, talented guy who has overcome so much. That is a fantastic thing. Honestly, I'm not sure I had a point although I did 20 minutes ago but I forgot

[doodler]

Don,

I don't think your issue is that you're picky when it comes to women, I think it's that any woman that would complement your philosophy and attitude probably has attributes that you'd find unappealing. I think the perfect woman for you would be someone that has eyes tattooed or her eyelids and when she snores it sounds like uh-huh...uh-huh...uh-huh...

[Dawgs]

Move over. Anyone have any popcorn?

[doodler]

No need for popcorn, I was just joshin' with him like I do everyone else.

I actually think Don is probably a really fun guy.

[Dawgs]

I know

[Vanilla]

Don

The logistics are easier as we age, no kids, less fin stuff (usually) and we are more who we are.

We set our patterns, I confess to being less confident although that is more to do with excess weight and complex PTSD.

Even so, life is fun now I am two thirds towards the end.

I am humming away some tunes.

V

[DonH]

Don,

I think it's that any woman that would complement your philosophy and attitude probably has attributes that you'd find unappealing.

Hmmmm, I think I may agree with you, but not sure - what do you mean? Examples? And then the rest, sorry, bud, you totally lost me.

I actually am a very cool fun guy - once you get to know me. That's how it's gone all my life. Some people get me riht away, most are not sure and a few think I'm the biggest A-hole they have ever met. I'm both introvert and extrovert. Yes I can and have been on stage in front of thousands both by myself and as part of a band and have no problem doing that. I have also been a DJ on the radio and still do some of that. Yet I can be rather quite at times. Then again, I can be outgoing and sarcastically funny.

As for Georgia - what did you think I was like? Since you can't remember your origional point, perhaps just tell me what you thought I'd say I was like?

See I've lead a rather fulfilling and diversified life. I've accomplished nearly everything I wanted to do as a child. Since I was like 10 I wanted to be a firefighter and paramedic - I did it. I wanted to perform in bands - do it, wanted to be on the radio, did it/still do it. I have accomplished a huge amount - just not as well with my personal life.

-Executive Director of 7,500 person member org.
-President of multiple orgs.
-Radio DJ and chief engineer
-Recording studio owner since 1983
-Musician playing likely close to 5,000 gigs in my life
-Musician performing on over 100 "albums" CDs, Jingles, etc. likely over 500 total songs.
-Private pilot with about 1,100 total hours flying time
-Have owned several planes
-Never smoked a cigarette, tried pot, coke, meth or anything else, rarely drink, yet I'm a recovering opiate addict with 7 years sobriety. No one and I mean no one, had a clue.
-Firefighter - likely participated in 50 structure fires - which really is a lot as things just don't burn down much anymore.
-Paramedic - treated thousands of patients over near 25 years with all sorts of cool stories.
-Dozens of people would claim I saved their life - a few would be correct.
-Love to ski - mostly water
-Love to travel
-Decent at baseball/softball - average at other sports
-Like to go to baseball games, followed by Packers games, basketball least favorite.

That hopefully gives a better glimpse into my life and who I am. For whatever reason, as successful as I've been at all of the above, I would not say successful with women would be on the list. Others actually would have said that - at least from about 1990-2005.

And finally Georgia, I have tried OLD but really got no where with that and I mean no where. I've done much better in person. In fact I don't know that I've done a second date from online - of the 4 or 5 I even went on - all but one by my choice.

And there you have it.

[doodler]

Don,

I could be wrong, but I get the feeling that you've lost your inner child. When you were younger, did you ever have the feeling that every day is an adventure? You go down to the pond and see fish in the water; you touch a frog and make it jump. You put your bare feet in the mud because the mud feels squishy and good but icky at the same time. You see a rainbow and you try to find the end of the rainbow even though you know you'll never really find it.

Forget your biases and preconceived notions. Go out with a woman covered in tattoos and listen to her and find out why she is the way she is.

You're a pilot. Read Richard Bach's "Illusions," you'll like it.

[Dawgs]

That hopefully gives a better glimpse into my life and who I am. For whatever reason, as successful as I've been at all of the above, I would not say successful with women would be on the list. Others actually would have said that - at least from about 1990-2005.

You've had quite the life and something to be proud of, sir. Now let me ask this without the risk of sounding attacking in any form. When you go out with these ladies, what is the ratio of talking about you versus her?

[Dawgs]

Forget your biases and preconceived notions. Go out with a woman covered in tattoos and listen to her and find out why she is the way she is.

I highly, highly recommend this.

[Ginger1]

Forget your biases and preconceived notions. Go out with a woman covered in tattoos and listen to her and find out why she is the way she is.

I highly, highly recommend this.

Going out of your norm and comfort zone you might have to find something maybe you would have never expected in a million years.

[Dawn70]

Forget your biases and preconceived notions. Go out with a woman covered in tattoos and listen to her and find out why she is the way she is.

I highly, highly recommend this.

Going out of your norm and comfort zone you might have to find something maybe you would have never expected in a million years.

I agree with what those before me said. Forget the "norm" and just go out and with someone completely against "type" for you. You might be pleasantly surprised. I'm 47 years old and have a 27 year old daughter and never in a million years would I have ever thought of going out with someone HER age, but I did and it was amazing! Because I just let go of all my preconceived thoughts and ideas and let myself enjoy it. Your a smart guy, Don, so I know you can get out of your own head and do the same.

[DonH]

Lol, funny, as I've already done that! She would be a co-worker of the woman who cuts my hair. She is fun as hell. Not serious dating material, even without the sleeves, but a total blast to hang out with. I didn't say I coukd not be friends - just not romantic.

As for conversation, it depends on the person but rarely do I do more talking. With the woman who ghosted me I seriously think it was 90:10 in that she talked 90% of the time - which was one of her red flags. I'm actually a very good listener. Although remember I said I typically gravitate to outgoing people? Well they tend to talk a lot. So if you were thinking I talk a lot about myself, guess again. I do tend to type a lot - just usually not about me. Lol. I'd say, after a first date, I generally know more about them than they do about me but it's usually pretty balanced or at least usually not 90:10. My fav V from ten hours away was totally 50:50 - another reason she's my fav.

[Vanilla]

OK

Then skinny dipping with doodler is recommended.

V

[Dawgs]

Oh lawd, my eyes!

[Rick1963]

Don my friend if you wanted a relationship you could have been in one or many..

Only barrier is (fill in the blank)..

Take the chance my friend. You are over thinking this in my opinion.

Love? What is love?

[Painter]

[quote=doodler]Don,
See I've lead a rather fulfilling and diversified life. I've accomplished nearly everything I wanted to do as a child. Since I was like 10 I wanted to be a firefighter and paramedic - I did it. I wanted to perform in bands - do it, wanted to be on the radio, did it/still do it. I have accomplished a huge amount - just not as well with my personal life.

-Executive Director of 7,500 person member org.
-President of multiple orgs.
-Radio DJ and chief engineer
-Recording studio owner since 1983
-Musician playing likely close to 5,000 gigs in my life
-Musician performing on over 100 "albums" CDs, Jingles, etc. likely over 500 total songs.
-Private pilot with about 1,100 total hours flying time
-Have owned several planes
-Never smoked a cigarette, tried pot, coke, meth or anything else, rarely drink, yet I'm a recovering opiate addict with 7 years sobriety. No one and I mean no one, had a clue.
-Firefighter - likely participated in 50 structure fires - which really is a lot as things just don't burn down much anymore.
-Paramedic - treated thousands of patients over near 25 years with all sorts of cool stories.
-Dozens of people would claim I saved their life - a few would be correct.
-Love to ski - mostly water
-Love to travel
-Decent at baseball/softball - average at other sports
-Like to go to baseball games, followed by Packers games, basketball least favorite.

That hopefully gives a better glimpse into my life and who I am.

So you call these accomplishments - which they are. Something to be proud of.

But they're not who you are. These are just things you did. Not who you are. You're not applying for a job.

I asked questions like 'Are you kind?' and it threw the other person completely off. But that's what I need to know. And 'What kind of R do you want? How do you react in a conflict? Can you talk about how you feel? What do you do if you're not satisfied in the R? What was your part of your M breakdown? What did you learn from that? How do you see your future? What do you want from a partner? What can you offer a partner?'

I couldn't care less about achievements. Can you pay your own bills? Do you have a reasonably stable lifestyle? That's enough.

[Zues126]

Painter, you bring up a good point in that some of the most important things are about how reflective the other person is, how they treat others, what type of values they subscribe to. It was a good post and while it may seem like my post may debate yours, I actually am trying to accompany it and work with it.

For me, Don's accomplishments are important as well. They tell of a man that has remarkable drive, that feels it is important to live each day to the fullest, and who feels that means overcoming fear and adversity and complacency and instead striving to manifest his gifts and shine brightly.

I admire these qualities. I personally feel they have been diminished by our society. Money doesn't buy happiness. Beauty is only skin deep. We are all inherently valuable regardless of whether we hit a home run or strike out. Better to be low earning and earnest than a high earning grinch.

True, true, all true. But what the saturation of these mantras has lead to is the dismissal of the importance of the qualities that Don has represented. Beauty is skin deep, but it is higher quality to take care of yourself, stay in shape, and present yourself well than it is to let yourself go. Hitting a home run doesn't make you a better person, but the drive to succeed and overcome adversity is very important. Having a fancy title, high income, or flashy car doesn't make up for an empty soul, but hard work, attention to detail, and ambition are important qualities as well.

Life is about balance, and it seems to me that just as an excessive fixation on these qualities can be detrimental, so too can be their dismissal. These days I think this happens too often.

It hurt me to hear what Don has done minimized, because in many ways this really IS Don. This is what makes him who he is. This is what drives him. This is what steers his decisions. This is how he shows his love to the world and celebrate his life. This is his gift. It is almost like Don spent his entire life hand crafting a birthday present only to be told "I would've preferred jewelry".

And again, I really admire Don for demonstrating them, and his accomplishments show his character the same way that being in good shape shows that someone takes care of their body. These accomplishments don't make him important, but those accomplishments were very important in and of themselves.

Of course that isn't everything. The qualities you brought up are equally critical. That, in fact, is what separates the materialist from the rounded individual who happens to enjoy worldly success as well.

In Don's case I picture him more as this rounded person than the materialist. Oh, it's not black and white, I'm sure he's out of balance in some ways. But one does not spend long hours on a forum reflecting on their interpersonal behavior if these things aren't important to them.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if those things don't matter to you, all that means is they don't matter to you. It doesn't mean they don't matter. They matter to Don, and they matter to me.

And again, nothing is black and white. The reason I believe these posts aren't opposing each other is I'd guess you can appreciate the qualities I've spoken of, and were simply trying to explain to Don the qualities that you value and how those things were absent in his self description as an FYI.

It's like different love languages. Don's love language is to move mountains and shape the world around him like a painter would paint a picture. It's a good reminder that there are other love languages that people might want to hear, and what's most important to him might not be all anyone else wants or needs. And Don should spend some time thinking about that, being aware that to most women these are going to be key to making them feel safe and connected. I also think that whoever is in Don's future needs to be able to recognize and value the virtues to which he has dedicated himself.

[Vanilla]

Zues

I like that which Painter stated. I like your post too.

If you were a potential partner for Don or Zues and just an ordinary girl, woman, and potential skinny dipping partner. It's scary stuff.

You guys are world beaters and potential is an ordinary mortal who is also truly extraordinary.

Golly you out class us, I am impressed and why should a wonderful being such as you be interested in ordinary?

Perhaps I am a little skinny, I am curvy, I am a nurse, I have a couple of children, I was abused. I drive a van, I like noodles, I have stains on my thread shirt, I cry in the rain.

I am great although I don't meet your exacting standards, I am flawed and human and ordinary. Rejectable by one so wondrous with such fabulous achievements.

V

[Zues126]

Oftentimes when I've played a pool player that's not at my level they tell me things like "You must think I'm terrible" or "This must be hard for you to watch" or stuff like that. I always wonder at that. I haven't said anything. I'm just playing pool the best I can, and they are too. If anything I respect the heck out of them because I can see they are playing hard and enjoying their gifts. The fact that I happen to play better is a small detail, because to me we are both on the same road, and we have this in common, a shared experience, and I respect them for going as far down this difficult road as they have. I always felt sad they couldn't feel the goodwill I had for them because they drown it out on their own feelings of insufficiency being projected over my voice.

You say 'we outclass you' and that you are 'ordinary'. I can't tell if you're hurt because you think I implied this in my post, or if you truly feel insufficient about yourself and are simply voicing your personal doubt taking ownership that it comes from you. It seems to be the former based on your later comment of my 'exacting standards'.

All I know is those aren't my words. Those are yours. And I don't feel that way at all. I said I admire Don, not that I looked down on everyone else besides Don. I can applaud the world's greatest violinist without looking critically at everyone else in the world.

As for your question about what to offer, if that world's greatest violinist went on a date I don't think he would care if his date had ever touched a violin. We don't all have to do the same things or be the same way. We just have to appreciate the uniqueness of the other.

The same way the violinist's date might feel rejected if they were criticized for not playing violin, the violinist might feel rejected for having his lifelong devotion to a musical instrument minimized.

Choosing to pursue one path doesn't have to be construed as criticism towards those that choose another. And it is possible for someone to celebrate what Don brings while allowing him to celebrate what they bring.

[Painter]

Zues, of course it is great to be accomplished. But how about being accomplished in relationships? We get good at what we practice and focus on.

Interestingly, WH is very accomplished. He is highly respected at work, innovative, asked for by management for special projects, sent around the world to teach, and in general a very hard worker.

But he has cheated in the most offensive manner on a string of wives. And he told me straight out that his job was more important
than our marriage.

That's why I look for the things I do in a potential partner. Honesty (and yes, I test). Kindness. Character.

[Dawgs]

of course it is great to be accomplished. But how about being accomplished in relationships? We get good at what we practice and focus on.

Work accomplishments are a great thing, and no one's beaten down the fact that don has accomplished a great deal. However, applying work "attitude" to dating/relationships/etc. doesn't fly. I'm not saying he does, but I do get the sense of impatience and, due to that, it may come off as desperate to some. I'm sure I'll be disagreed with, but just go back and read from the beginning of this thread and it'll pop. Don sounds like a great guy...he just needs to tone it down a bit.

[doodler]

OK

Then skinny dipping with doodler is recommended.

V

Yeah, Don! And we could talk about airplanes.

[Dawgs]

Yeah, Don! And we could talk about airplanes.

Someone say airplanes? Love them! Spent quite a bit of my life around Naval aviation. Love to talk airplanes!

[DonH]

Wow, what in the hell happened? Lol. I leave for the weekend and come back to a spirited Discussion - part of which must again be going over my head.

Let's see if I can respond some.

Skinny dipping - yet again? Wow I'm so over the whole skinny dipping jokes. Funny. The first ten times, perhaps, but... And if anything I'm homophobic so not getting naked with another dude unless he's got MD behind his name and we are in a clinic.

As to if I wanted an R I coukd have one or many. Can't disagree more as it takes two people to have an R. What can I do, gorse someone at gun point? If. She's not interested, she's not interested regardless of what I want. Those who are I have not been. I guess I coukd just. Keep going with them. A his but if I can't bewitch someone I really want to be with, why bother? To that end I guess it's true I coukd be in an R if I chose to but what the point. I'd rather be happy by myself than less than with someone else.

This in fact relates to the meet of some of the other posts. I don't know if I'm not clear, people are not able to see all of what I wrote or they just reach their own conclusions regardless of the info I do provide? However it's not like I've had all of these failed Rs. I'm not even getting to the point they can fail. I've not had anything beyond casual or a single date in 3.5 yeas. It's not about me or even the other person or conflicts or something, it's about I'm not interested in them or them in me for all sorts of reasons including distance. I doubt they coukd say I did not handle conflict, or communicate or speak their LL AFTER ONE DATE!

So much of what I wrote is who I am at least as far as they know as the Time nessisary to find out more has not been invested. This deeper things often come later and in fact if I were putting them out that early you'd all be saying I'm revealing to much too soon and being to anxious therefore scaring them away. You'd say, relax, just have. Fun and get to know them - right.

But I can certainly add to that list.

- I'm extremely honest
- live to communicate about deep things
- I enjoy finding out about the other person
- I always say how I feel - and it's really how I feel. Not what I think the other person wants to hear
- I am very direct
- I am rather right on politics
- I do not want to get married again. I'd prefer one woman in the same page as me.
- if. She's still looking for her "soulmate" at this age we are not a match.
- I am very rational at conflict. I can agree to disagree. I don't do crazy. For example there is this spoof video where a woman has a nail in the center of her head and goes on and on complaining about the pain yet when her BF suggests it might be the nail in her head she gets very upset with him and says he's not listening to her - it's not the nail. THATS CRAZY - ad the video strongly suggests. I don't do crazy
- I don't sweat the small stuff
- money is no real issue to me
- I rarely if ever care what someone else thinks of me. I most certainly value their input but I don't do anything based. On what I think they will say or think.

Is that more what you are looking for? If so, it makes sense perhaps a month in or 5 dates in. Do you really think I. Not finding someone because they don't think I'd handle R conflict well? And if. So what on earth coukd someone just getting to know me base this on?

If I knew what to change I would most certainly consider changing it. It. Coukd be. Possible I'm trying too hard or coming On too strong. It's possible. Yet, the woman I just came out and asked told me she stopped interacting because I didn't seem interested. How can I be trying to hard yet coming Off as not interested?

Even the suggestions and discussion here is now all over the map - leading me even more to believe there is no easy answer. Still I hope you'll all keep trying.

[Dawgs]

Go back and read your post. Your answer is in there. Dissect it. You're a smart cookie...I'm sure you can figure it out.

[Zues126]

Zues, of course it is great to be accomplished. But how about being accomplished in relationships? We get good at what we practice and focus on.

Interestingly, WH is very accomplished. He is highly respected at work, innovative, asked for by management for special projects, sent around the world to teach, and in general a very hard worker.

But he has cheated in the most offensive manner on a string of wives. And he told me straight out that his job was more important
than our marriage.

That's why I look for the things I do in a potential partner. Honesty (and yes, I test). Kindness. Character.

My post was stating that both accomplishments and values are important. Accomplishments don't excuse a lack of character.

I am very accomplished and never cheated on XW or walked on my obligations to my family. XW was the one that cheated and walked and she wasn't as accomplished. It's not one or the other.

It seems to me that it's really easy to take the qualities that lead to achievement for granted. Persistence, innovation, ambition, competency, hard work. That is what built the very world we live in. Now as we sit in our air conditioned houses and have a fully stocked refrigerator and can drive in cars with our children to doctors to get medicine, now we can say 'ok, we're good, I don't need all that, I've got enough, those qualities don't matter much to me anymore'. But with an empty stomach, sick untreated children, and all kinds of other hardships all of a sudden those traits start becoming paramount.

This goes along with my speculation that hardship is what kept marriages together and that the divorce rate has to come up as our quality of life rises. Marriage requires accepting things that we consider unacceptable, sacrificing our freedom, and taking our rights to pursue personal happiness and placing them beneath our obligations to serve our family. When a partnership becomes a convenience instead of a necessity most people simply won't make those choices.

I've talked about this before. The hierarchy of needs, starting with need of food and water, then safety, then belonging, then prestige, etc. When people were in a survival situation all they longed for was a partner that could help them survive. As we move higher up this pyramid of needs people have become more demanding.

I'm not saying this is a bad thing, and this is just how it looks to me. Just my own attempt to make sense out of a crazy chaotic world we live in.

I get why you'd focus on what you focus on after what you've been through. I'm not criticizing your emphasis on making sure a guy isn't going to turn out to be a snake. Your XH was flat out wrong to cheat and the destruction of multiple marriages is ghastly. I can empathize with how he probably felt, it wouldn't surprise me if the women he was cheating with were making him feel admired and important for what he was doing in his life. Again, my point being that having his achievements recognized and not dismissed is a core need for most males. But part of being a man is taking it on the chin if your marriage doesn't provide you what you want and need and still honoring your commitments. He came up very short there and I can see why you'd need to know this wouldn't happen to you again.

As for me, my XW left me and is now dating a stoner that parties with her on the weekends saying she doesn't need a guy that's successful materially, she just wants someone that she can have a good time with. I'm thinking to myself "Of course you don't need a guy that works hard, you have a court order pointed at my head forcing me to provide thousands of dollars a month for you already, and since I'm already meeting your basic needs you have the luxury to go out and fish with your alcoholic boyfriend..." For me it is absolutely critical that I am super successful or my family won't be provided for because the buck stops with me. No one has to say thanks, but I get to see my children eat, I get to buy them books to read, I get to pay for their violin rentals, I get to pay their chess tournament registration. That's enough validation for me and I know better to look for it anywhere else.

[Ginger1]

Don,
I really hasn't even been getting dates at all. I had some online dates, which you don't do, otherwise I've been in a complete dry spell for a year. Then forever before that. I couldn't explain it except that I am never around single men.

Is it true it only takes one? I think it might be. I never saw myself with a younger guy with no kids and he is AMAZING. And I was resigned to the just being alone for now too. Does that have anything to do with it, I don't know.

What attracted me the most? His kindness and the way he reached out and was appreciative of something nice I did. His sense of humor. His passion for what he does for a career. The way we simply clicked and have similar personalities. His drive in life. The way he is making his own dreams come true. How is so very thoughtful and considerate of me. Which I saw clearly on the first date, actually. His accomplishments are impressive to me, because they do show his character.

There is no easy answer. But in the meantime, perhaps try a new venue. The gigs aren't working. Your out of town conferences aren't working for now. How about finding a new hobby? Try some meetups that involve your interests.

The frustration with this situation may actually be leaking out to other women. For example, the woman in my class who is single and is despertaley searching for a guy having a "crush" on every single guy that walks in the door just omits desperation. My guy (one of them she was zoning in on) said her desperation is such a turn off and is obvious. I think we all omit an air about us when we are searching too hard for something. I know I have done that.
I am not saying you are leaking desperation. I think it's more the frustration that might be evident. Hang in there Don!

[Vanilla]

The skinny dipping isn't in any way sexual, I see this as the spirit of play.

Two kids leaping about in pools have a splashing time.

My point is that dating is fun, and can be enjoyable, that to me is that which is missing.

Levity.

V

[Painter]

So much of what I wrote is who I am at least as far as they know as the Time nessisary to find out more has not been invested. This deeper things often come later and in fact if I were putting them out that early you'd all be saying I'm revealing to much too soon and being to anxious therefore scaring them away. You'd say, relax, just have. Fun and get to know them - right.

But I can certainly add to that list.

- I'm extremely honest
- live to communicate about deep things
- I enjoy finding out about the other person
- I always say how I feel - and it's really how I feel. Not what I think the other person wants to hear
- I am very direct
- I am rather right on politics
- I do not want to get married again. I'd prefer one woman in the same page as me.
- if. She's still looking for her "soulmate" at this age we are not a match.
- I am very rational at conflict. I can agree to disagree. I don't do crazy. For example there is this spoof video where a woman has a nail in the center of her head and goes on and on complaining about the pain yet when her BF suggests it might be the nail in her head she gets very upset with him and says he's not listening to her - it's not the nail. THATS CRAZY - ad the video strongly suggests. I don't do crazy
- I don't sweat the small stuff
- money is no real issue to me
- I rarely if ever care what someone else thinks of me. I most certainly value their input but I don't do anything based. On what I think they will say or think.

Is that more what you are looking for? If so, it makes sense perhaps a month in or 5 dates in. Do you really think I. Not finding someone because they don't think I'd handle R conflict well? And if. So what on earth coukd someone just getting to know me base this on?

Why would you keep all these things hidden until further into a R? It's not revealing anything too soon to say that you like to have real conversations and that you are honest, or financially independent, or even-tempered, or that your political leanings are one way or the other, or that you don't see remarriage in your future. I think it saves a lot of time and prevents you from getting entangled with someone who thinks throwing food is the proper way to argue, or who is really superficial, or who can't imagine being with someone who has a different political view.

I know what I'm looking for in a partner. His job is completely irrelevant. It's great if he does well because it means he will most likely feel good about himself. But if he is a completely average performer at work and his focus is on spending his time taking care of family, help out at a shelter, or working on an art or craft, I would be even more intrigued. Money doesn't mean too much to me. It's nice to not have to worry and be able to travel a weekend once in a while, but I have no need for a 50 inch TV or a boat or diamonds. Or sit next to an exhausted and sleeping partner on the couch in front of the TV. I think many women feel the same way.

[Georgiabelle]

Don,

I think these factoids about you are awesome. You sound like a great guy and I think it's great to sometimes dare someone we may not normally go for at times.

I can't speak for most women-only myself. I'm not into money, or what a guy does for a living. I would hope he likes what he does for his own happiness and that he can put a roof over his house. I'm not into looks. I have to be attracted to him which is like finding a needle in a haystack and he must be attracted back which whittles that pool down to almost nil but it is a pool. Probably not long enough to swim laps. :-) I don't believe everyone truly wants honesty however I think most people value candor and directness in regards to Rs. But I'm no expert dater as I've always been in a relationship for the most part. They ranged from a model, to an auto mechanic, x Mr. GB is an artist and NG is a photographer/writer (former struggling actor). Yes, I'm really not into money. I don't think you have to line up on everything but there are some things that Anne difficult to overcome. Religious differences (if super important to both), if one wants marriage or kids and other doesn't. Otherwise, everything is negotiable if the parties agree.

Just relax and be yourself. I used to login for some of my guy friends when they were OLD and help with the winks and emails. Not that they needed my help, they just wanted an opinion. I don't know if I have anything to offer but I think authenticity is super attractive. More peeps should try it.

[Vanilla]

All quiet!

Hope that's good news

V

[DonH]

Lol, well neither good nor bad I guess. Partly on advice here and more so out of frustration I've sort of given up - at least given up trying. I am already an avid people watcher and have really been doing that even more lately - much in place of watching for potential dates. I just don't get it - I really don't. Some of the couples I see together and I'm like, never in a million years would I place these two so dissimilar people together - yet they are. I see these seemingly very high quality women with total losers and I'm like - huh? How dies this doofus get a GF like this and I can get a date?

Last weekend (9 days ago, not this past weekend) as I'm at a gig on break I see this semi-attractive, seemingly normal woman walk in and greet a guy sitting at the bar. I swear she said "nice to meet you". They clearly were not a couple and I believe meeting for the first time. OLD was my first thought and with little else to do my people watching went into overdrive. He had loser or at least player written all over him. I'd bet money he was a used car salesman. As I watched he was sooo aggressive. Within like 20 minutes of meeting he's touching her hair, her legs, I'm like wow. Talked way more than he listened. As I'm back on stage it continues and at least to me became a class on what not to do on a first date. I'm thinking how these are all the things not to do n a first date That's what I saw anyhow. Clearly I know nothing as they left together!!! I'm like you have got to be kidding me. I wanted to grab the mic and say "lady, you can do soooooo much better!" I was in a squrilly mood but I refrained. Now it coukd have been a sex sight hookup for all know but clearly I don't know shjt! Lol

Yeah I totally still have my sarcastic sense of humor about it all. Did very little this past weekend. I tried to line some things up but not too hard and when the three people or couples all had other plans I figured three strikes and I'm out. Just didn't feel like it and to be honest my GAL will get pretty busy this week with an activity with my brother on Wednesday, dinner with the guys I was on the fire Dept with on Thursday. A weekend away in a tourist town southwest of Madison for the weekend - which ends up being 6 hours of "work" and about 42 hours of GAL. Then birthday outings next Monday and Tuesday. Yeah, turning 54 next week. Another year which will mark 12 years since the bomb and 11 years since D and about 4 years since last real R.

Thanks for asking V. Wish I had better things to report but it could be worse. Although... I guess I should include... Remember the woman from the conference that I thought I'd not see again so asked out sooner than I should have? Turns out we clearly have a friendship developing with her contacting me more than I her, often resulting in hour long conversations - sometimes longer. She is very genuine. I swear she called me "Hun" today - which had to be a subconscious slip. I don't at all feel the filthy vibe on the phone that I did in person - which probably means she's actually interested - because clearly I don't know Shjt - that's painfully obvious. .

[Vanilla]

I remember confgal, slow and steady. I think you want a confgal rather than a hook up oncer.

Otherwise I will send you vibes for a wing person to assist.

I like hun, it's cute without being over familiar.

Go flirt!

V

[whatisis]

Sometimes you just have to take a break from it all, Don. I'm like you, always trying to figure stuff out...it can be draining. Take a break, have some laughs and get back into the game when you choose to. What is is and what will be will be

[Dawgs]

As I'm back on stage it continues and at least to me became a class on what not to do on a first date. I'm thinking how these are all the things not to do n a first date That's what I saw anyhow. Clearly I know nothing as they left together!

Good grief.

I swear she called me "Hun" today - which had to be a subconscious slip

Unless she is from areas where "hun" is a typical thing to say. Don't read into something that isn't there. That's the "desperation" that others have mentioned.

[DonH]

Jeep YOU ARE the one reading into it - not me. That's why I said it was a subconscious slip - and that I'm sure of as I've done it myself at times. I'm not reading into anything nor appearing desperate - trust me. Plus, I think she's much more friend material than dating material now that I've gotten to know her much better. Just mentioned it because I thought it was cute/fun - nothing more.

I love "reading people" and do it all the time. I'm actually great at it in business settings, just suck at it in romantic settings.

And just to be clear "I don't feel the filthy vibe" should have been FLIRTY vibe not filthy. Lol

Sadly, at least in the last couple weeks, I would not even take advantage of a wingman. I clearly have flipped back over to I just don't care anymore. So I'm sure by end of summer my friends and some family will be back to telling me "you have to put yourself out there and try." Lol

[Dawgs]

Keep telling yourself that, my friend.

[DonH]

Well, it's been nearly two months since I last posted on my thread and do I have some huge updates to report! Wait until you here this!!! Um, yeah, not really. Pretty much nothing new here to report at all, other than perhaps some big struggles with my largest client. Too much to write though, but it's clearly been getting to me. Hopefully the changes I'm trying to affect will happen soon.

Ah, but it's May 20th. May 20, hmmmmm, why should I remember something about that date? Well, 17 years ago this very day, on a Saturday no less, I was married to ExW. Wow, how does the time go by so fast? 17 years ago already. My stepson turned 30 last weekend. I first met him when he was 7!

To be very honest, I don't at all think I would have remembered it was my anniversary had I not received a card from the local jeweler, still in business, that I purchased her ring at. They are still going strong with a bunch of locations all in this area, but the place we held the reception at was torn down a couple years ago. I still belong to the church we were married at. Anyhow, had that card not come, I usually remember a couple days later and go, "oh yeah, Saturday would have been X years." So it's not like I really give it any thought anymore these days. Wonder if ExW does?

I've actually been having fun with it today with friends - mostly due to how fast 17 years have gone by. Imagine if we were still married? How would life be different? Have to wonder. It's a very dreary day outside, cold, rain, overcast. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Going out with a female friend tonight, sort of a date, sort of not - we are more friends than anything with a once and awhile benefit if the mood strikes. Then a grad party for my niece who just started college like months ago (in my head) but graduated last weekend as well. That happens on Sunday. WHERE DOES THE TIME GO!

So that's my update. Yeah, not much of an update, I know. That seems to be my life these days. No big high, no big lows.

[25yearsmlc]

DonH

Sigh...Um, "happy anniversary"?? Keep posting, I'll think of something hilariously witty eventually.

Maybe I'll even say it to you.

hugs

[Ginger1]

Today is my BFF's and her exH's 16th wedding anniversary. Only they have been separated almost a year..... they are spending to together today with their kids..... I pray she decides she wants him back....... but that's a whole other story.

My wedding anniversary always comes and goes without much of a thought. He is always on vacation with his OWW and my D on that day. used to make me nuts, now I don't care, lol.

No highs or no lows is actually quite a great place to be. A sort of date with a possible dessert is always a nice thing too. Have fun tonight!

[bttrfly]

May 20th is momentous for me as well, as it's the day exh proposed ... 24 years ago. also the day I graduated from college, 26 years ago. also the day I graduated as a clinical herbalist ... 4 years ago.

So, I hear ya. really I do.

I also wonder if exh remembers when any of our special dates roll around. he was exceptional at remembering them all, i will give him credit for that.

enjoy your dessert sorta date! Salted caramel ice cream is my suggestion. Or tiramisu.

[DonH]

Well Mat 20th was as uneventful as it always is. The only difference is that I remembered this year where I don't most years. I texted several friends including a few who were in the wedding to see if they remembered. Two guessed correctly, a few others didn't even respond. I never got back to them and life simply went on. Was with family on the 21st and no one even gave a hint. I said nothing. I'm guessing after all these years it's long forgotten.

Did have fun last Saturday though including discussing the potential to go on a cruise with the friend I was out with. I love cruises. It would be her first. We get along really well and have fun together. She has not had a serious R in years just like me. All things considered we coukd be dating but I just don't feel it with her. Not sure why. Yet I'd totally do the cruise and we have been physical at times. Might somethung develop? Hmrf I guess anything could happen but I rather doubt it. I'm totally in for the cruise though - will see if it happens. Now watch her get a BF and I'll be out. Lol

Another "date" of the same type - in all ways this Saturday. Really is the same other than I do feel an attraction with this one but we are just not a fit. She has young children (7/10) and suffers from some depression issues. The good L is great but the not so good L is really hard to deal with. Still, I'm very looking forward to seeing her Saturday night. I'm sure it will be fun.

Of course as luck would have it, two GF from high school asked me to meet them Saturday night. Now it was HS so it's not like I was in love with either of these girls. They are still the best of friends and it was just casual stuff with me, years apart from each other, but I'd love to see them. Not sure the timing will work since I'll be with L an hour away from where they will be, but I told them when I was on the road I'd text and if they are still out I'll stop by where they will be. One is just visiting from out of state so I'd really like to see her. The other is recently D'd --- hmmmm is that part of why she messaged me after all these years? It did cross my mind but honestly I'd just love to see these friends from so many years ago. Last time was about 4 years although we keep in touch electronically. Anything else would just be a bonus.

And then, the gal from January invited me over for a cookout on Monday. We've stayed in touch with her more perusing me. As per my usual, not sure if I feel anything more than a friendship there either but I love talking with her and I'm sure Monday will be fun.

Add in band gigs on Friday and Sunday and I've got a busy busy weekend! And that's good. A lot of activities and that's great. Still no one that I think about in "that way". Part of me thinks that's good. Another part wishes I had a real, romantic date in the mix. Just not the case. Oh well. It's just the start of summer. Will see what happens. And of course, even if it does will I be interested? That's the piece that seems to happen less and less every year.

[adinva]

Hi Don! How do you navigate the potential cruise-girl R? Seems so confusing to me...i'd think she'd assume that was going to be a serious thing, and feel rejected if it's not. If you're willing to share I'm wondering how something like friends or more than friends but not going anywhere but not cut off entirely gets negotiated.

[DonH]

Well Adinva, it has just sort of happened and evolved. I've known her for coming up on three years now (I think). She is 43, never married and no children. She has not really had a BF for as long as I've known her. We somewhat worked together for the first year or so but she has moved onto a different company. We are both very comfortable with each other. She is casual about it all and so things just happen very naturally. At least that's the case for me. We've stayed together in the same bed before without anything happening so it would not be a problem for both of us if we did a cruise together. We actually nearly did that a year ago with a cruise I ran but she could not get off of work since she was still pretty new in that job. She's done the FWB thing with others and seems fine with it. We are actually more friends than benefits.

So I don't know if I'm explaining things well or not. If you are asking, how did I make this happen - the answer would be, I didn't. It just sort of evolved. I wish I had more romantic feelings for her but they are just not there even though I love hanging out with her when we do. I guess it's possible that could develop if we spent more time together but sort of doubt it.

She may wish or want for more? I'm really not sure. She is the type of person who is pretty smart, reads people and then will try to do what they like - if that makes sense. So sometimes I'm not really positive of what she really thinks or feels - sometimes just more I sense she's doing or saying something because she knows I would agree or like it, etc. Does that make sense?

As for her, she claims she would like to be married one day, yet she does less dating than I do! I don't think she was able to have children even if she would have been married and now at 43 that's sort of off the table unless it happens really quickly. I just don't think that it will. We are both rather independent, like our space, etc. I've heard her talk about at least a few guys she's been involved with and actually doesn't have expectations with them and sort of rather keeps them at a bit of a distance.

For whatever reason, I really do think we could both go on the cruise, even interact much like a couple and still just continue to be good friends afterwards. I may be total wrong, but I don't think so - other than, like I said, I sort of sense she might hide her true feelings unless she thought I felt differently. All I can do is take her at her word and her actions. It's really up to her. We'll see if she reaches out and has me book this with her. The only potential down side would be either of us getting into a R in which case either I'd have to cancel or she'd have to say, Sorry, Don, I've got a BF so obviously he's going to have to go on the cruise with me - which I'd totally understand. Thing is, we've both been single all this time - the odds are not high that will change in the next 10 months.

[DonH]

Wow, coming up on 4 months since I've posted on my own thread. I had to even find it again! Not that I've haven't posted on others and I pretty much stop by several times a week and catch up. Just have not posted here - which means catching up on 4 months takes some time - an entire summer's worth. For those with enough interest, and some knowledge of my past, here we go.

I guess the place to start is, I'm really doing well. Then again, I pretty much have been all through. Somewhat on the advice given here, I've given up on "trying" to meet women and just letting things happen - and they have.

I'll start with the craziest of all - at least to me. Anyone remember the friend of a friend who lives on the east coast but comes back "home" as she calls it, at least once a month? Like the others, I had pretty much given up on her after she got weird on our last date - which was over a year ago now. We've very lightly kept in touch with a FB post, comment or text here and there. Then I started noticing her liking or commenting on nearly every of the few FB posts I make. Hmmmm, what's that about? I then figured I'd wish her a happy birthday and got a clearly depressed response - or at least that she was struggling. I do feel bad for her as she is in much the same place as some of us here. Not my problem, not mine to fix but I do have empathy for her. We talked a bit and that was it. Well I did talk with her friend, who remains a very good friend of mine as well.

So imagine my shock then about a month ago, just as I was about to leave on a four day trip, inviting me to come visit her and "hang out by the ocean" as she put it. Huh?????? I hardly hear from you, you show little interest but out of the blue invite me to stay with you for an extended weekend? Who does that? Is this "normal?" I did respond and some decent conversation followed over several days while I'm away. Again, out of the blue, she does a complete about face, says she's not in a good place and doesn't need "crazy in her life." Now I may be and may bring a lot of things, but most certainly crazy is not among those things - which really P'sd me off. I quickly dropped the rope and did not respond much more. A day later and my phone is blowing up with texts and calls. Seriously? Believe who people show themselves to be. There is more to this story and her loneliness together with advice from our mutual friend likely had something to do this this. We did meet when she came back to town but I can't get over her behavior and it pretty much took away my interest. We've not talked much since.

Very busy summer. I have increased the GAL although much of it still centers around band gigs and trips - which is very normal for me. However, so many of these trips are 75% vacation and GAL and 25% "work" Booked a 100% vacation trip I've wanted to do for a long time to Washington DC for next month. I've been to many places but never DC. Hope to meet up with a friend from high school who just retired as a colonel and still lives out there. May meet up with another friend as well. Beyond that, I'm going by myself - which has often been how my vacations have gone for the last 12 years. Going to a beech resort or something like that by myself - no way. But DC is a perfect place to go by myself and explore - in fact I sort of prefer it.

Ran into another lady I've been attracted to back in July. Clearly we'd at least go out if she didn't live in PA and me in WI. At least it was a self esteem boost and nice to connect and spend time with someone in a romantic type way. It felt very natural and was very enjoyable.

The friendship with the is she gay is she not gay woman continues to grow - very well actually. We are so comfortable with each other and she makes an effort - clearly. I mean, I'll just leave her a casual message (if she doesn't answer) and within hours she's returning the call - and this happens pretty much every time - even when I say "just calling to say hello." We'll often talk for hours. Still not sure if she's into men or not. She clearly does not have a BF and doesn't seem to want one. She calls me dear and hun and all sort of other names yet it seems very natural. We've done some walks together - she's huge into fitness, actually is an athletic trainer, but doesn't do much with that certificate these days. Met for drinks and dinner. Might something develop? It well could or it may not. Thing is, I'm not even thinking about it, just enjoying her friendship.

So have I gotten anywhere or any clarity through this summer? Perhaps I have and it may continue to answer why I've not had a GF in 4 years and not much in the way of Rs in the 11 years since my divorce in October 2006. I want to be invited to the party - I just don't necessarily want to go. That became clear with the east coast lady - although her behavior was also a big factor, no doubt. But I'm not sure I was all that attracted to her in the first place. It was enough to pursue something but as soon as she returned the interest - dysfunctional as it was - I was not nearly as sure. Does that make sense? It feels for sure that I don't at all want to work at it or for it. If it happens in an easy, no drama, no hassles way, I may be in. But I clearly don't have a lot of effort to put in to pursue someone - and perhaps they can sense that? Then again, with some, I clearly put in the effort. Am I even making sense now?

This is how it was prior to meeting my exW. Some people seem to fall for anyone or can "settle" for anyone. A year ago I got contacted by an ex GF who broke up with a long term live-in BF. I was not much interested in going back there but would have reconnected. Within a month she "met someone new" and was just married - for the 4th time - last month. Some people do that. It's just not at all me - never has been. The good thing about not trying as much is I'm just as happy without the frustrations I was often talking about here. I still miss intimacy - especially just holding hands, snuggling together, kissing, things like that. But not enough to settle and above all, I still rarely really, really find someone I'm very interested in. It's always been that way and perhaps always will be. Ex W came out of nowhere and the pieces just fit. Will that happen again? Who knows but something tells me it's not likely.

And so I'll end with this. I've not had any contact with ExW since 2.5 years ago when our dog had to be put to sleep I sent a text and let her know. She thanked me, etc. but that was it. Anyhow, for the longest time she wanted me to cut this tree down by the back deck. I really did not want to as it was the only one near that area of the house, had to be like 40 years old and just, well just didn't agree and it stayed. Well mother nature took off the top in a storm and it's just overgrown way too far so a friend and I removed it a few weeks ago. Somehow it dawned on my how many times ExW talked about - actually it became a joke - taking that tree down. At least I thought it was a joke - perhaps not. On a total spur of the moment whim, I took a picture of it on the ground and the vast open erea and texted it to her with a comment of "well it may have taken me 14 years but I finally took down that tree you wanted out of the way." I thought it was friendly enough - and totally my sense of humor. No response. And in this case, I could not have cared less - sort of expected not to hear anything.

And that's my update for this time. I'll try not to wait another 4 months but no promises. Life really is good, I can't complain. It without a doubt could be much, much worse. I'm rather happy on balance. Yet, everyone said for years and I still real on the boards all the time about all sorts of people "Don't worry, you'll meet someone else" blah, blah, blah. Seems like age 42 to 54 went by in a blink and I'm no closer to having a significant other now than I was then - perhaps farther from. I hope I didn't waste some good years there. In ways I fear I did. Oh well. Life is what you get when you're making other plans.

[Ginger1]

Don,

So you talk to this maybe lesbian for hours on end and have no idea if she is actually a lesbian??!! You need to change the conversation up to figure this one out! get into the deep stuff and you'll find out. ANd if she digs guys, I say go for it!

I'm glad life is good. we go with all the ups and downs right? I am glad it is on an up!

[kml]

Again, out of the blue, she does a complete about face, says she's not in a good place and doesn't need "crazy in her life."

That was some pretty obvious projection on her part. Good job staying away from crazy.

[Dawn70]

I agree TOTALLY with kml! And, is it just me or when people make blanket statements like that about avoiding crazy or drama or the like, it is them CAUSING the crazy, drama, etc.? I don't know....maybe that has just been my experience. LOL Whatever the case, I think you avoided a bad situation with that one, Don.

[JujuB]

Haha, i think youre right dawn. The people who say they are not looking for dram tend to be the ones behind it all.

Im even thinking that we have to consider being less forgiving of when people show us their true colors. (Like this woman got weird a while ago, then came back and acted like a psycho again) why do we keep thinking they have changed. Same thing with our ex's. We try so hard to do 180s so they wilk return, but then they end uo repeating. Because its all about them.

[DonH]

Good comments on the latest flake. With me, however, I am very, very leery and cynical of most in the first place - unless I really, really fall for them and then I can get sucked in. But in this ladies case there was never that huge of attraction - I was more giving her a chance as many here have suggested. I even remember saying she was last on a then current list of 3 or 4 - and getting yelled at by someone here for saying it that way - LOL. Anyhow, yes, it's rather clear. As I said, I don't try to fix people. I'm very huge on "people will show us who they are if we will only listen." That said, I do emphasize with her as it's what many of us here have gone through or are going through. She's divorced, no kids, away from family, not many local friends (from what I can tell), in a huge community for the military. OTOH, this is somewhat her choice and she doesn't seem to be wanting to do anything to change it - or perhaps like me, is not sure how to change it? But her only step in the right direction has been going from trying to tell everyone (and likely convince herself) she has a "great life" to admitting her life is not going that well.

The bigger take home for me, is the dating world seems to be filled with people like this - at least at my age. They are all over the place - all over. Yeah, I'm very picky and won't settle. I don't deny that. But still, it's so very hard to find someone who is "normal", meets what I'm looking for and I am attracted to. Then if even all those things are met, I have to check their boxes or we'll still not get anywhere.

Is it any wonder I've been D'd for 11 years next month and am still very much single. I think my revelation of two years ago holds true more than ever - I really do need to find a widow. Which, by the way, for those playing along and following me at home, my widow is moving from Arkansas to Florida in a few months! I just can't win - not that I've seen her in a long time anyhow.

Thanks for the comments everyone! I'm actually impressed people have taken the time to read it all!

[JujuB]

I hear similar sentiment from a lot of men out there. They all seem to be frustrated over the women they are meeting. That eqst coast lady is definatly someone to stay away from, but what else are factors that make someone a red flag?

[DonH]

Wow, look at this, it's "only" been 30 days since my last update/post here and I'm back with an update. Proud of me?

I finally did a vacation. Now, I do travel quite a bit and most of you would say many of these are vacations, and to be honest they are, but this was 100% for fun only - at it really was great. While I've been to Washington DC several times, I've never had the time to really explore so I finally did it last week and had a blast - at least for the most part. I, of course, went by myself. Amazing how everyone or at least nearly everyone I told, including my parents, the first words out of their mouth are "who are you going with." I just get the feeling many think, "hmmmmmmm that's odd," when I tell them just by myself. My parents just feel bad for me I'm sure.

To be honest I'm great at traveling on my own and a trip like this was the perfect one - compared to like a cruise or beach or all inclusive or something. I got to do what I wanted, when I wanted, no deciding with a group where we should go, what we should see, where we should eat, etc. I just did it. Saw so many great things and I will tell all of you this, if you visit DC and DON'T take time to see the Newseum and the Holicost Museum, you are really missing out. Of course Air and Space, the monuments, Arlington, White House, Capital, Archives, etc. should be on the list too but don't miss Holicost or Newseum.

I actually got a luxury apartment - as cheaply or cheaper than a hotel in the same area. No room service or daily housekeeping but a full kitchen, two baths, living room, you name it. It also came with an incredible roof top area that had no one using it the couple times I stopped up. It would have been a beyond romantic setting - had I not been by myself of course. That part was a bit depressing.

I was open to meeting people although not much of that happened. I was going to try to connect with someone from high school that lives out there but in the end I chickened out. I've not communicated with her at all in like 10 years and just didn't have the guts. Of course, after I return and post a few photos on social media, one of her best friends contacts me and asks if I checked in with her. Grrrrrrrrr now I really wish I would have. I'm just not good at that stuff and really need to push myself more. In fact, I was not even all that excited about going until I got there and then loved it. That is often the case. I don't want to call someone, or go someplace or do something - sometimes even dread it - but then when I do I really enjoy it. Still, the next time it comes up, I'm back to the same place in my mind.

I've been doing a few more talks on the opiate epidemic and simply LOVE it. I so want to do more of this and to be honest have all sort of people that would like to have me speak - they just can't pay me. Therefore the challenge is to figure out how to both do a lot of speaking and make a living as well. I've already had several people from Tuesday's talk contact me - mostly for help/advice with a loved one struggling with heroin or other opiate addiction. I so enjoy talking to these people. It's a great GAL (doing the talks) and I intend to continue - but just like getting my butt in gear to make the vacation happen, I need to get my butt in gear to make this happen as well.

A new company rented an office at the main client I have. I am in there a couple times a week but due to vacation last week was in 4 times this week. This little blonde hottie keeps walking past but won't even make eye contact. She's likely about 10 years younger but that's all I know. Since they are right next door to me I hear everything, including two of them talking about going on a third date with a new guy - I don't think it's "her" but her co-worker. Very funny to listen to. Felt like I was in high school or college for crying out loud as the girl is talking about how she is nervous to "eat in front of her date" I mean really?

I don't know, kind of a boring update I'd say. No wonder I only post occasionally. LOL Slightly busy weekend with plans pretty much all weekend long. I have to say, on balance I do think I feel better since I gave up trying to date. I'm getting nearly the same outcome but less anxiety, angst and feeling like crap.

If anything changes, you'll all be among the first to know!

[TBSakaJ9]

Hey Don.....I think it is pretty cool that you are able to take a vacation by yourself and are confident to do so!

It does sound like you are better off without your W. From your reply to me she was not honest and seemed to have a lot of drama. I am sorry you had to go through it but I get the sense you are in a better place. It is great to see someone come out on the other side and they are doing great!

I also think it is ok to be picky and I am not one to put myself out there either. Your right you probably do need to push yourself a little more but if your happy that is most important and you say you are. I am sure one day you will meet someone when you least expect it and they will fit all of your qualifications. Why do you think you have not put yourself out there that much and or are indifferent right now towards dating?

I like how you stated about wearing out your real like friends. Mine were very supportive in the beginning but unless you go through something like this no one really knows. They still ask me how things are going but I think it is more out of obligation than anything else. Most people get tired of hearing the stories and while I don't expect them to fix anything as you know it just feels good to talk about.

It's been 11 years for you. Do you think you have got over the hurt and pain she caused you? In the end you referenced her A and how they are still married is the reason I ask.

I hope you are right as well but I don't think I am going to have the patience to see this all the way to the end.

Take Care!

[DonH]

I am sure one day you will meet someone when you least expect it and they will fit all of your qualifications. Why do you think you have not put yourself out there that much and or are indifferent right now towards dating?

If only I even had one fun date for every time I've had someone tell me this! I've heard it for over 10 years now and still has not even come close to happening. To be honest, I've sort of resigned myself that it likely never will but we will see.

As to why I don't put myself out more, I actually used to. It was in part of suggestions from here but more so that I just was not getting anywhere. I just really have not. That's really the main reason.

You also asked if I was over the hurt and such from my marriage. Well I'm without any doubt whatsoever over exW - long ago already. I think I'm over the M as well but that, together with my experience for the most part since has landed me where I am. I'm not at all a trusting person to begin with. I most of the time have a very, very good sixth sense. I trusted ExW when my gut told me to question it. in the end, the things that I feared would happen actually did. I had so many people telling me how I was going to lose a wonderful woman if I didn't marry her, blah, blah, blah. Funny thing, several after the fact said I should not have. Well people you can't have it both ways!

Anyhow, it's that coupled with my experiences since that really have soured me on all of it. If you take the time to read through my last year of threads you'll see what I'm talking about but here's a quick recap:

I wad D'd in October 2006 and didn't really date much at all until the end of 2007 and 2008 - which is I think the correct way to do it. One of the two R's did not give me as much concern as the other but both had some red flags. Online dating was miserable. I think I messaged over 100 people on Match as a paying member and went on like 5 dates? All were one and done. When I tried a second time several years later I could not even get a response. Those who did contact me were, how do I say it, just not even close to what I would be looking for.

I can't tell you how many women through friends and just life that I've met who don't even want to date. I can recount and name at least a half dozen who I tried to get to know or asked out who have not dated me OR ANYONE in years and don't seem to want to. Others are just plain not right - and I don't mean just not right for me - they are NOT RIGHT. It just gets to a point where why even try anymore? Then I look at friends and while I can name several who are happily married, many are not.

What I would really love to find is someone just to do things with, travel with, etc. I'm told there are women like that out there and to be honest, I sort of think that some of those who don't date and are as independent as I am would fit the bill but they would rather just be by themselves - perhaps as jaded as I've become?

So, not to sound completely dejected and given up, I've come to decide, with input and help, that I'm better off just letting it happen when I don't expect it - if it ever does. I'm certainly less pissed off and bummed out this way I'll tell you that. I have over the top self-esteem but it takes it's tole when you are rejected over and over and over again.

That said, I've only met a very, very few people that I am attracted to. The one I was most attracted to lives 10 hours away and is soon to more 20. Others just reveal red flags as I get to know them or I just have no attraction to begin with.

Hope that fills you in a bit more Joseph

[doodler]

I've been doing a few more talks on the opiate epidemic and simply LOVE it. I so want to do more of this and to be honest have all sort of people that would like to have me speak - they just can't pay me. Therefore the challenge is to figure out how to both do a lot of speaking and make a living as well. I've already had several people from Tuesday's talk contact me - mostly for help/advice with a loved one struggling with heroin or other opiate addiction. I so enjoy talking to these people. It's a great GAL (doing the talks) and I intend to continue - but just like getting my butt in gear to make the vacation happen, I need to get my butt in gear to make this happen as well.

Don,

It's nice to have something you're passionate about. And to think I had you pegged as the kind of guy that would be cheefing doobies in the parking lot.

[DonH]

For real Doodler? With you I can never tell since most replies are a joke. If serious, I'm the most opposite of that you'll ever find. Never tried pot in my life. H@ll I've never smoked a cigarette. Rarely if ever drank. Never tried coke or meth or extasey or really any drug - other than opiates. It started with adult tonsil surgery and progressed. So I'm totally opposite of a druggie - the last guy you'd suspect.

Thing is, yesterday was 8 full years of opiate sobriety without a relapse. I started year 9 today. I've now been clear of opiates longer than I was married. Imagine that. Still I really am very very happy with my life. The only thing missing is someone to hold hands, snuggle kiss, etc Of course there are no arguments no having to go do things I hate, no one nagging at me. If I had to have just one or the other I'd stick with what I've got. Still it would be nice to have more women hit on me that I feel attracted to than currently do. I'd say three in the last 11 months.

Anyhow, no drugs for me but I totally love talking about them!

[doodler]

For real Doodler?

No Don, not for real. That's why I used the winky face. If anything, you remind me of Joe Friday from Dragnet. Of course, I could see where Joe Friday might meetup with J. Edgar Hoover in pumps and a little black dress.

I didn't know you'd been addicted to opiates; I'd bet that's a tough addiction to beat. Regarding women, if you like hippie women, I'm planning on going to Burning Man 2018 if you'd like to tag along.

[DonH]

Hippie women often have tattoos and I think you were part of the tattoo covo we had a while back. I more go for the business professional type, has to be smart, but still fun, outgoing and hot. Yeah, I don't want much.

Opiate addiction is extremely difficult or can be. There is no cure. That's partly why nearly 100 people in the USA die of it every day and the Whitehouse may declare it a national emergency later this week. We'll see. Thing is, many treatments just don't work nor have ever been proven to work even though we keep using them and charging huge $$$ for them. Some treatments work much better. I was lucky to get a good treatment plus had a lot to lose and was dedicated to being done with what I never asked for or wanted in the first place. 8 years is pretty good. Like I say, most of my life has gone exceeding well. Then there is the relationships side that I totally suck at!

[DonH]

Time for an update again. Lot's new, I guess, just not any amazing, great news.

I'll start with my main client - which is no longer my main client. This could be a book in itself. It's a large support association in the emergency services arena that I was executive director of for 18 years. I know I've told this story in years past on these boards. Anyhow, I had been doing their media after being brought back to bring them out of near bankruptcy in 2012. Well, 18 months ago the board abruptly fired the ED that replaced me and then went onto hire perhaps the worst possible candidate. It's been hell ever since. I have absolutely no doubt this guy will have them back at the bankruptcy door within two years. He is very, very bad news, lies about pretty much everything from the moment he wakes up until he goes to sleep and has NO CLUE what he is doing. Of course I'm a huge threat to him as I know the truth - yet the board is so asleep or just doesn't care, or is buying what he is selling, that they don't really care what I might tell them so I have not really said anything. Anyhow, he is not only NOT renewing my contract, he's not even having me do any work while it ends at the close of 2017 - the result of which amounts to giving me 12 weeks of paid vacation. No kidding, I'm being paid, just not having to do anything. It's really been four months of paid vacation.

Like a bad relationship, I'm beyond thrilled to be out of it. the downside is the cash flow will be lower but honestly, I could just about fully retire at this point in my life - especially given the stock market these past few years. So instead, I'm going to put the time I was putting into that contract towards building up doing speaking and continuing education related to the opioid crisis going on in the USA. It really is where my passion is. I've already been doing this - the struggle is getting paid for it. But I have a plan and we'll see if it works or not. I've been working on all of my marketing materials to start booking for 2018.

I know it's hard for everyone here to remember back about someone's specific sitch - I know it is for me. To refresh, I'm the guy who was D in 2006, didn't date at all until late 2007. I've had two Rs both less than six months since then. I didn't try much until after R two ended in summer of 2013 after I turned 50. Then in about 2015, give or take a year or two, I was putting in more effort to date. I tried several online stints, friends, meeting people randomly, etc. Nothing worked. I've related the various stories. People here suggested perhaps I just need to stop trying as things will happen when I least expect it. So in part due to that advice, I stopped all of these efforts. My last flirt with an R was this past summer, but it really never went anywhere by my choice as I saw red flags.

With that background, here's the latest - hmmmmm well the latest is no change really. There are several potential dating opportunities that could end up going somewhere. The fling I had a year ago over Thanksgiving has remained a good friend - but at least for me she's mostly a friend. She lives in Canada and I'm in Wisconsin so let's start there. I've known her for 20 years but nothing physical happened until we were together last Thanksgiving. I've seen her since but as part of functions. She's actually been doing some sub-contracting work for me on projects so we have that connection as well. I really enjoy her, we are very, very natural as far as communication goes - very normal flow. I just feel more of a friend vibe - somewhat due to physical attraction or lack of - and well, she was not a very good kisser either. Just call me shallow Don, it's okay.

Then there is the lady I met 10 months ago. Same deal, we have an amazing flow in she will just call me or text me randomly, we get together to do things, we will talk on the phone for hours etc. It's mostly business though. She is rather closed to personal things or even feelings. I had asked her out the week after meeting her but she said she was not in a committed R but seeing someone and didn't want to date someone else as well. I've not heard a single word about this person since. I still think she's gay and doesn't want to tell me - or is very very afraid of dating anyone. She's my age and never married. Very independent, etc.

What I'm trying to get at, however, is I really think I am so checked out of even the potential of an R.... I don't even try at all. Take this past weekend, I was with two other couples - one in an R for coming up on one year, the other married for 33. I could have cared less that I didn't have someone and honestly after watching them, was glad I did not. I even told them at this point I think I'd rather get a colonoscopy than get married. There were two women at the Christmas gather I was at that I could have at least tried to peruse - one I think I may have met 5 years ago - and again, I just could have cared less. The 5 year lady kept looking at me, yet I was like Mea, whatever - not enough interest to walk over.

I don't neither like nor dislike this. I'm more afraid of growing old or having this life come to a close without ever having love again. Yet, I'm not afraid enough that I'm willing to do anything about it. The thought of a full on R scares the crap out of me - or at least gives me a very uneasy feeling. To me an R just means pain and hurt. I see it throughout the boards here with story after story after story of betrail. I see it with most of my friends my age or younger. The only people I really see who are happy and not fighting are my parents age. More and more women my age either can't stand to be alone and will take anyone - just got more examples of that this weekend with a guy who left his third wife less than three months ago "falling in love" and moving three states away without the D even being final yet - or examples of ladies who don't want to even go out on a single date with someone. I have male friends in the same boat although we do call one of them "the 40 year old virgin."

I'll end with this as I put it on someone else's thread - may have been Dawn's. There is a matchmaking service called "It's Just Lunch" that I keep hearing ads for. Not sure of the cost but I'm betting it's mid three figures to perhaps entry four figures - it would not surprise me. Anyhow, a human being meets with you to find out about you. They then hand pick someone they feel is a good match and even set up lunch or dinner reservations for you. They then say - show up at such and such place at 1 PM and meet Mary. They then talk to you after the date to see how it went - as well as the person you went out with. Not sure if it's worth a try or not. Although at this point I'd have to say to them - look I'm only looking for someone to do things with - travel with, weekends, etc. I'm not looking for my next wife. I keep getting told there are women out there who want to keep their own house and own life and keep running into guys who want to marry them. In other words, I'm what they are looking for. I'm told this yet I never meet these women - although that one gal who may or may not be gay could be one of them and I'm just in the friend zone. Anyhow, I would add that if I somehow fall in love, as very doubtful as that may be, I would not shut the door on longer term committed. Actually I'd be fine with long term committed - just not married. The thing is, I'm just not in that lonely, wanting a GF place I was about a year ago to even try. I keep getting notifications from Match and POF that someone wants to contact me - evidently my profiles are still showing or something. I don't even have any interest in looking. I'm in a place where all I see is people wishing they were me and could do what they want, when they want and had no one nagging at them.

I really have given up, have no expectations and am least expecting anything. So if all of those people are correct, someone should be crossing my path. I just doubt it. I'd love to be wrong, but as often happens in my life, I'm not.

There's my update. Comment at will.

PS, I do have some thoughts about how my life has in some ways come full circle and I'm back to where I was at 20 again. Perhaps that will be my next post.

[Georgiabelle]

Don,

I enjoyed your post. I realize I’m supposed to give you a “rah rah” speech about how you need to “put yourself out there” and “keep trying.” Nothing wrong with being okay with where you are. Life is fluid and you never know what tomorrow brings.

Peeps are a fickle bunch nowadays. I was talking with a friend of mine that back in college, if a guy called you, asked about you or something of the sort, one presumed there was interest. Nowadays, people text for weeks or months on end with no intention of even meeting. We seek instant connection yet avoid connecting. Not everyone of course, but it’s a common occurrence. My gf had a guy disappear for 3 months after a date and weeks of texting. She wanted to know why he’s texting again. He’s bored. He’s lonely. He needs an ego stroke. Doesn’t make him a bad guy at small-just probably not R material.

Sounds like you are getting out of a bad situation at work. Good luck on your new endeavor.

[bttrfly]

Hi DonH. I've been following along for a while. I think the answer to your question is in this post. You yourself are very conflicted about being in a relationship, and that's what you keep attracting. I guess my suggestion would be to really do a deep dive into all the aspects of relationship - what does it mean to you, what do you like about it, what scares you, etc. so that you can come to peace with the parts that are so terrifying and maybe make them less so. I feel like doing this is your best chance at finding companionship on the other side of that work. Make sense? What I'm trying to say at 5am with no coffee is that while one is conflicted about something, the universe tends to respond in kind.

Just a thought! xoxo

[TBSakaJ9]

What I would really love to find is someone just to do things with, travel with, etc. I'm told there are women like that out there and to be honest, I sort of think that some of those who don't date and are as independent as I am would fit the bill but they would rather just be by themselves - perhaps as jaded as I've become?

I don't think you are too far off here.......just having a companion to do things with is not a bad idea. Coupled with the high D rates of 2nd and 3rd MR's I think it makes sense. My mom has a friend who left her H for a younger model and her Ex never got re-married, still lives in the same house with his girlfriend of many years. So I know first hand it can definitely happened.

At minimum you are happy in your own skin and with yourself which is huge!

I have heard mixed reviews with the on-line dating scene. Quite frankly I would be a little scared to put myself out there but I know some how I would have to get comfortable with it.

Then I look at friends and while I can name several who are happily married, many are not.

I haven't taken a poll but I now look at people who are married differently and feel that I can tell someone who is happy vs not happy. Maybe it is my BD instincts!

[DonH]

even told my friends at this point I think I'd rather get a colonoscopy than get married.

So I made that comment a couple of weeks ago. Then I actually had a colonoscopy last week and have to say it may be a draw. The actual procedure was no big deal but the 24 hour prep - omg it made me soooooo sick. At least I'm good for 10 years now.

Anyhow, Christmas is less than a week away. This will be my 12th Christmas without W and 11th without a GF. I don't decerate as no one will see it but me and I'm fine without it. Yet like many other things I feel like I'm missing out in some ways. I'll be with family and such but it's just not the same. SIL used to ask, "are you dating anyone?" She doesn't even bother asking anymore.

I'm still on "paid vacation" (see my last post) and have gotten so lazy. I keep saying, tomorrow im going to get a lot done and then I do one or two thungs and say, tomorrow I'm going to get a lot done. Then repeat.

I'm feeling more and more stuck. Not majorly so just, I dont know, just maintaining. I'm happy not at all sad just not thriving. Does that make sense? For sure the best parts of my life are behind me - paramedic, firefighter, pilot, CEO, lots of traveling, etc. it's all in the past.

Ginger just reported how her C said she, and I would say this fits for others as well, should not quit trying unless they really don't want to be with someone. I quit trying about six months ago but what gives me pause is I really don't think I do want anyone. I actually got that feeling again after someone expressed interest and I'm again like meah whatever. Another poster here talks about she is rarely turned on by or into anyone. That's me! I can't remember the last time I was like "omg I want to get to know her." Nearly everyone I meet I'm like meah. Is that because when I did try I got nowhere so I'm just cutting to the chase? I wonder. I'd at least like to get excited by someone but they all seem to suuck, have issues, are crazy, can't be honest or ghost you. Clearly my trust is about zilch. Just read the boards and you see example after example after example. I just posted on a thread where a guy had 7 great dates with someone. Then poof, "I don't think we have chemistry, bye." At least she didn't ghost him. That's what it's come to lol not getting ghosted is considered a win.

I'm mostly just venting. Really I am. But even the colonoscopy was harder on me than anticipated. Who knew? I want the life back that I had from 1990 to 2005.

[Georgiabelle]

Happy holidays, Don! That’s me. Rarely, rarely, rarely (I can’t emphasize that enough:-) attracted to anyone. I *like* lots of folks. But I *like* sushi and margaritas too.

I can relate to much of what you say. Enjoy the remainder of “paid” vacation. This is a difficult but good time of year to recharge and focus on what’s most important to you. And I do concur, don’t give up on what you want. However, for me, I have to come to peace with the fact that some things may not transpire. Not giving up-but realizing I can only do what I can.

[DonH]

While I have been meaning to post some thoughts about on-line dating (OLD), something I gave up,after multiple failed attempts, this is not that post. Instead, I've been rather bothered by some events today and figured this was the place to post. I'm not really looking for answers I guess, just frustrated.

I've not been in an actual R for like four years now, perhaps it's more like 4.5. It doesn't really bother me much anymore. In fact, it was because it was bothering me that I finally gave up, ad I really have given up and dropped the dating rope. My last real date was last Fall.

So today I get a request that most people would do back flips over - including me while still married. I get a request to play sax with one of the regular bands I gig with on a 7 day cruise. We only have to play several evenings and then afternoons for two at sea days. It's beyond an easy gig. Thing is, it pays bare minimum - at least compared to my normal gigs which are never less than three figures. BUT even though it's token pay, they cover both the cost of the cruise and flights there - about $1,500 for me AND they will do the same for my "girlfriend". I was like..... Ah, girlfriend?

Such a bummer on an otherwise great gift. Who would not accept a free cruise for two? The leader of the band was certainly willing as was the guitar player. Both are married. The drummer goes through GF like water but has been with the same GF now for about 14 months - although based on her comments this last weekend that may be coming to an end. Then there is me, the extra in the party if 6 or 8 or 10.

The same thing happened two years ago with a group cruise THAT I RAN. We sold just over 100 cabins with about 220 people. I tried everyone I could think of to find someone to go with me. I finally just said, release my cabin and I didn't sail on the cruise that I orchestrated. It makes me depressed and feeling like a loser just thinking about it.

I think that's a good part of why I feel so shltty again now. I feel history repeating itself. Now this may be worse as I'm not going to give away a free vacation just so someone else can go. I can't really sell the other ticket - not ethically anyhow. If I don't find someone, unlike last time where I could bow out, I would still have to go. I really even wonder if the promoters would perhaps force me to room with another musician I may not even know. That's a definite NO F'N WAY. Not going to happen.

I really do well by myself most of the time. It's just times like this... I should be on here saying, I was just given a seven day cruise for two. Instead I'm depressed and not sure what I'm going to do. That [censored]!

I do have ideas, and 10 months to figure it out - well, figure out who my "date" will be that is. They want my answer now. I've already gotten all sorts of suggestions not limited to taking the 32 year old best friend of the leaders daughter. "Do you want to go on a cruise with my dad's friend". I know her somewhat well and she actually may. I just feel like a creepy old man just thinking about it.

Have not thought about her in forever but I really hate my exW today for what she did to my life.

[kml]

Do you nbnot have a good friend or buddy or sibling that you would like to take? It doesn't have to be romantic. (Although I'm secretly hoping a woman will appear out of the ether in the next ten months.)

[Coconut]

Don, I say go for it.. Take the gig, do something you love and enjoy the vacation.. If your worried about them pairing you up with someone else (which I completely understand) find someone that will sign up and just not show up.. Heck, have anyone agree to sign up, even a co-worker if need be, if they just don't show they won't be able to fill in the last minute cancellation. But if there's someone you'd enjoy the experience with, invite them, make it clear your ok if they cancel, you just want the spot filled, no pressure.

I've been on several cruises (living in so. FL did have its perks), and they are awesome for what they are. OLD [censored] for men (im sure you'll eventually get to your post), but being in the spotlight doing what you love is living, don't give that up.

[bttrfly]

^^^ I not-so-secretly share kml's secret hope

xoxoxoxo

say yes, and see what happens

[JRuss]

Of course you say yes to the gig! And be amazed and joyful that you're so [censored] good at the sax that people will give you a free cruise just so they can hear you play. That is incredible! Know every day that you were blessed with a talent few get to have, and that, to your immense credit, you've worked very, very hard developing that gift, to the point that you're a professional musician -- how cool is that?????!?

Find joy in your life, and it will project out of you. Women -- themselves healthy and happy -- will find it deeply attractive and won't even know what it is, exactly, just that they want to be around you. Right now your posts exude heavy melancholy. Melancholy, while completely understandable for all of us, is not attractive to anyone other than co-dependents and fixers. I think you have a lot of self-awareness and have a strong ability to spot damaged people and are good at steering clear, but that melancholia is what's attracting those sorts of folks to you, and a bad, unhealthy R avoided is better than getting ensnared in one, it's not what you want (based on the longing that comes through in your postings).

Be joyful and grateful and amazed at the wonder of a life! Think about this: We're clinging to a rock that is hurdling at thousands of miles an hour through a vast universe we know almost nothing about. We have developed language and art and the internet and human language, and we feel pain and sorrow and joy and happiness, moment by moment. There are right now cheetahs trying to eat antelopes in Africa and 8,000,000+ humans packed onto Manhattan Island. And all of it is incredible. Life is an incredible, fantastical adventure. Feel it, believe it, and it will come out of you, and you'll attract and find someone awesome really quickly. Your biggest problem (you're a pro musician, remember) might end up being how to choose between awesome ladies.

That's how I see it.

[DonH]

Thanks for the initial responses here. I think I need to provide a little more insight - and at the same time help me process through as even the first posts have helped me explore more within myself. I might break this into two posts or at least two sections since there really are two main themes and sides to this.

I'll start with the business end of it. It's clear by Coconut's suggestions the business aspects are being missed and this is a good part of why this is so hard for me.

First, if I go this will be, I think, my 10th cruise. I've never paid for ONE! How cool is that and how lucky am I - I know this, but sometimes forget it. Being on stage for me is just my job. It's no big deal. It really is not - especially at my level. I've performed with some B or C level "stars" from time to time - names you perhaps might know, but not like some of my buddies in the industry have and do all the time. It's possible you might know some of these players - but only if you watch RFD Television. Still, it's no different for me than it is for any of you going to your job.

Now, back to the free cruises. The first was a gift from a hotel that the organization I was CEO for did a lot of business with. They didn't want to lose us so they gave both me and another high level exec a 4 day cruise. At the time I was dating the woman that would become my exW for about three months. When we sailed we had been dating about 6 months. It was a perfect opportunity. Perhaps there is "PTSD" coming from that?

From there I got the idea to run group cruises for this same organization I was CEO of. These cruises were highly successful taking as many as 500 people - never less than 200. That netted me suites on the ships. I've also done two previous band cruises - where I just performed but had nothing to do with running the cruise - sort of like this latest offer.

Then I got D'd and a few years later ran another group cruise. I went by myself for the first time. I had an "owners suit" - one of the best cabins ever! I WENT BY MYSELF AND HATED IT. Now this was only a few years post D, but it's still in my head. More "PTSD"? These things are in many ways for couples - at least the ones I ran were. You do dinners together and take great couple portraits, shore excursions with, etc. It really hit me to the point that I never wanted to go through that again. I still have a group photo where the staff are all in the front row - two by two by two and then me on this love seat by myself with a group of 300 in back of us. That's why when I ran this last one a couple of years ago I refused to go by myself. I tried everyone I knew and no one could get off work, had vacation time, had the money or wanted to go. I released the free cruise and stayed home. More "PTSD"?

Now let's look at the business of what is really going on here. In essence, I'm being given $3,000. That really is the case. I then use that money to purchase two $1,100 cruise tickets and two $400 flights. In fact, I MIGHT (not sure) get a 1099 tax form at the end of the year and then have to pay taxes on this money. It really is income even if money does not change hands. Obviously, they don't send me a check, but just book things for me, but it's no different than if they did give me cash. Sure I can deduct my travel and cruise but NOT that of my guest. So to just put anyone's name down and them not go really is just like taking $1,500 and lighting it on fire! Oh and then paying income tax on the money I just torched.

Add to that, I know and work with these promoters. It's not like I'm "screwing the man" here or some huge cruise line who might not know or care. If this guy found out what I did, he'd likely never hire me again - or a band I was any part of. Word would spread quickly. I would not blame him. How would you feel if someone you hired did this to you? Id' be far better off telling him not to book that flight and he could save $400 or perhaps give it to me or split it with me.

I'm telling everyone this because it really is part of why this is bothering me. For the other guys in the band or anyone in an R - it's an incredible opportunity. Take your wife or GF on a free vacation, make a little money to pay for some expenses while you are there, work perhaps 20 hours during the week and come home. For me it's not like that - and that's what psss me off. You really have to have a GF or W for this to be an opportunity.

_____________________________________________________


With that understanding, you may now see how this is more complicated. It also could put stress and expectations on anyone who might go with me. Not only am I giving them a $1,500 gift, I may be paying taxes on it!!! That's a huge gift for anyone not in an R. Now, just as I would not expect sex after taking someone to a high end restaurant and perhaps to some expensive outing, I would certainly expect she be enguagued, interested, likely a kiss, hold hands, whatever. I most certainly would not expect that she flirt with other guys or meet someone else or something. Same here, I don't want someone leaving the cabin at 9 AM saying "see you later, have a good day" or something.

On the other side, what might whomever goes with me be thinking? "What is Don expecting for such a huge gift," etc. It really complicates all of this. Nearly all of my good friends are married. I have one brother - married, my mom and dad are still both living and actually may go anyway. My good guy friends are married. None of the above are going to go without their wives. They just are not. Plus, at least for me, girls do this stuff all the time. Guys... not so much. In fact as I'm texting about this with the drummer he made the comment "you could always bring a guy and pretend you're gay." Not a totally true statement but there you go. I won't even get into my homophobia. LOL

I'll stop there for part II later. Hopefully this gives some of the background as to why this may be bothering me more than nearly anything else has in this arena since last year. And that in itself bothers me! I really had dropped the rope and have not cared much about women or dating. To be honest, I've been rather certain I never want to get married again for some time now and for the last six months, I've gotten to the point I don't even want a GF. For the most part that fits me just fine - until something like this comes up and smacks me upside the head. I'll address that aspect of it and some of Jruss great points later today.

Thanks everyone!

[Vanilla]

Ask Doodler as a mate to go.

Pick someone explain there will be tax and it's not a free ride. Ask if they will do some admin work for you so they too are business related.

Talk to the organiser and explain, you are single etc.......

Start a singles cruise company, teaching band skills....

Heck looks like an opportunity to me.

V

[doodler]

Ask Doodler as a mate to go.

Yes! Please Don, let me be your cabin mate. I'm a red hot mess just thinking about the possibility of cruising with you.

[DonH]

Ask Doodler as a mate to go.

Yes! Please Don, let me be your cabin mate. I'm a red hot mess just thinking about the possibility of cruising with you.

And now even more PTSD. .

[DonH]

Sorry everyone, I never got back yesterday to do part II. Instead, I had to be talked off the ledge. I guess on the positive side, it took my mind off of this whole cruise dilemma thing. I am doing better now and trying to put things in perspective.

So I was on the phone yesterday with one of two FWB from recent years. I saw her this past weekend. We are mostly friends - actually pretty good friends, but every now and then... Anyhow, she knows all of the players in the cruise thing so I told her about it, and my concerns. I commented about the whole sharing a room with a guy and then I'd have to pretend I'm gay or would people talk? And there was dead silence on the phone. I've talked about my sixth sense before and it went on tilt. I said "What?" And her "nothing" was not even close to convincing. She's a terrible liar.

Turns out, multiple people asked her this past weekend if I'm gay! I was devastated. No offence to anyone. I have gay friends - one was a really good friend until he moved away to do act on Broadway in New York City - go figure. But I'm homophobic. I get an unpleasant reaction when Doodler talks about wearing a dress for crying out loud. It's just who I am. I hate to hug a man. Like I said, if nothing else, it took my mind off of the cruise.

Is that what it's come to now? Because I don't have a GF and have not for years, I am gay? But then she did explain... or at least this is what she claims... At least I don't act the part, so that was a little relief. I'm not an MMA alpha, but, I'm good looking (so she says) successful, in shape/thin, funny, they are baffled why I don't ever have a girlfriend with me. That sort of made sense - if it's true. Thankfully with at least these people she responded, "I can tell you first hand he's not gay, he's just very selective." She gets point there.

I've been doing so well being single. I really have. Even doing well since dropping the dating rope last year. But holy heck, do I need to at least get a GF for a couple of months here?

As I thought of it though, I'm guilty of the same thing with this lady I met a year ago and for many of the same reasons. Perhaps the world has gotten so accepting of this stuff that no GF in an otherwise "catch" means he's gay?

I'll still respond with part II and to JRuss's great comments. Just need to firmly get myself away from the window so as to not get back out on the ledge.

[Holding]

Don, why don't you ask your FWB to go on the cruise?

[DonH]

Don, why don't you ask your FWB to go on the cruise?

Way ahead of you - I did. That's partly why we were talking about it. She's considering it but, let's just say, it's complicated. Otherwise she'd be perfect.

[DonH]

Well I may have another story that tops the "Is Don gay" story I posted a few months back. In fact, this one just makes no sense.

So I'm talking with a friend I've known for over 30 years. We clearly have chemistry but she was first dating and then married to a good friend of mine. He died suddenly about 15 years ago and she later married HIS best friend. She's flirty and such but I know her current husband just as well as the first (as they were best friends) and there is no fear of any lines being crossed. In fact I dated her friend a bit last summer - and talked about it here.

So, I'm now 55, SD about to be 33 in a few days and SS is 31. She knows I'm not looking for a soul mate - although I sometimes have wondered if she thinks what she wants. She's smart, but perhaps a bit ditsy as this story may show.

So anyhow, we are both past due to catch up and I heard that her and her husband may be going on that cruise I'm performing on (and still need a date for) that I spoke about. As we are texting to set up a lunch get-together, she out of nowhere asks me if I'm dating the keyboard players daughter. Now let me add, this daughter is about 30, recently D, three kids in their single digits, no job, impulsive, tatted up and pierced, just on and on. Pretty much the opposite of anyone I'd date - let alone younger than my step-kids. I could not believe it. I'm like where in the heII did that come from? "I Just thought maybe" was all she had.

Perhaps you would have to know me and everyone involved but this is the most unlikely person for me. Yet, she thinks otherwise? Really makes me wonder, how do people REALLY see me? Is perception really reality? One thinks I'm gay, another thinks I'd date a train wreck half my age with three kids - who also happens to be the daughter of a life-long friend and co-worker? Huh?

I'm stumped, but will revisit and ask when we meet for lunch. I clearly need to re-think allowing her to set me up with anyone. Holy Heck. Now that she really has, but she does try and does ask.

Have a short list of possible candidates for the cruise. One, I'm actually going to pursue - I think. I've known her for a couple of years, she actually cuts my hair. I am very comfortable with her. Thing is, like so many women I meet, she doesn't seem to be interested in dating ANYONE. She's been D'd for awhile and from what I can tell has not dated anyone. She did seem to show some interest, however. Will see. We do seem to have a lot in common, including neither of us out looking for our next spouse. I think it will mostly come down to her comfort level. Not with me - with anyone.

I've been very slow with work and slow just breeds laziness. The less I do, the less I want to do. It's okay as that won't last forever. It's just a phase I'm in - and have been in since about November - wow 5 months already!

Lightly thinking of dipping my toe back in OLD - very lightly - as in just a thought. It didn't work the first or second time so I'm not sure why I think the 3rd time's the charm, but I've not been on a date since like October so...

Wish I had more of an update. Hope you enjoyed my latest head scratcher. Looks like it's nearly time for a new thread as well. Perhaps that will be the start of something new for me as well???

[Ginger1]

I don't think the people others want to set you up with is a reflection of what they think about you. I have noticed people automatically think 2 single people of the opposite sex is a match. Why not set them up?

And invite whoever you think you would have the most fun with on the cruise. Don't worry if there is potential for something romantic, just bring a fun friend who could possibly be your wingman.

I wish I could be that friend!

[DonH]

I'm temped at first to say brilliant! Why didn't I think of that? But it is pretty obvious and I should have seen it myself. So perhaps brilliant observation of the obvious? Thinking back I've had so many people knee jerk with something like so and so is single. As if that's the only criteria!

To be honest, I've not given a lot more thought to the cruise. Mostly because it's still 9 plus months away. Friends brought it up again last night. I think I've already laid out the dilemmas here - mostly married friends or in an R. After the gay question, I'm not taking a guy. Lol. But even a friend like you G - then what happens if you start dating someone in October or November? What will he think of his GF sharing a cabin with a guy? And honestly even with friends I'd feel bad if by some chance I met someone on board and kinda left them. That would not be nice. Put yourself in that sitch, while you might be happy for me you'd have to feel left out. I know I would so I'd hate to do that to anyone. It really is more complicated but I'd still take one of my female friends and honestly think that's where this may end up. For whatever reason I really have this calm feeling that everything will work out. I just do. Time will tell.

Still in semi awe of that great observation - two single people of opposite sex are automatically a match. I've seen that and had that happen often. If only it were that simple.

[25yearsmlc]

I need to read back over this thread to see where you are headed and THEN i'll address the cruise issue(s).

Last weekend I helped out at the family cidery/distillery. Where I was, only hard cider is served. Someone arrived already on something (there are wineries nearby, too) and 911 had to be called for her unresponsiveness. Pretty scary and there was a lesbian police officer who asked me out.

Hmm, I decided it was flattering.

Because otherwise it's going to make me feel like 1) I'm not looking as feminine as I feel

or that 2) simply not wearing a wedding ring means I MUST want to date someone...anyone...

Don, Maybe you need to wear more manly cologne, (or sweat and smell more) or talk about steaks and cars, & tell people you hate decorating??

I'm temped at first to say brilliant! Why didn't I think of that? But it is pretty obvious and I should have seen it myself. So perhaps brilliant observation of the obvious? Thinking back I've had so many people knee jerk with something like so and so is single. As if that's the only criteria!

God, I hope not. I set up an online profile and said "No thanks" to atheists, workaholics, smokers, and people closer in age to my kids than to me.

Guess I'm picky! But I am dating a nice guy, and seems like he's my bf. I say "seems" b/c we have no exclusivity arrangement as we have both come out of long marriages.

But we do hang out quite a lot. It's a calm R, and mostly drama free.

A LOT of communication happens that is needed b/c we don't have the decades of history x and I did.

I miss the shared history I had with x. So much, at times it hurts. I have had dreams of him that made me miss him.

Then I had to b1tchslap myself with reality and remind myself "yes, x was really funny and handsome and blah blah blah

AND ALSO he became really mean and was dishonest for SO LONG..." And it's all pretty crazy, when I think about it honestly.

You are not in crazy land Don. But what do YOU think is holding you back from dating more?


To be honest, I've not given a lot more thought to the cruise. Mostly because it's still 9 plus months away. Friends brought it up again last night. I think I've already laid out the dilemmas here - mostly married friends or in an R. After the gay question, I'm not taking a guy. Lol. But even a friend like you G - then what happens if you start dating someone in October or November? What will he think of his GF sharing a cabin with a guy?


She tells him on their 3rd date that oh btw, she's going on a cruise in the fall...and is sharing a cabin with a friend.

...Oh, & the friend is "an older man" (Don, if you are 2 days older than me, you're "an older man" so don't be offended. It's to lower the resistance of the new BF that G doesn't have yet, ).
the sooner it gets put out there, the less complaining is allowed.

And we are sort of borrowing a problem, aren't we??






And honestly even with friends I'd feel bad if by some chance I met someone on board and kinda left them. That would not be nice. Put yourself in that sitch, while you might be happy for me you'd have to feel left out. I know I would so I'd hate to do that to anyone.

does this^^^ happen that often? Geez, I have been on cruises but I guess always with family or my mom. Still, do people HOOK UP "for real" on cruises so that this "problem" is a realistic obstacle?


It really is more complicated


but...is it?

[JujuB]

I know it's 9 months away, but this is easy...take a female friend if neither of you have significant others.

I am sure there are tons of things to do on a cruise for the friend if you do meet someone or want to go off on your own... judt dpell it out before u go

Most people would love some quiet reading in the sun by themselves!

[DonH]

You are not in crazy land Don. But what do YOU think is holding you back from dating more?

Very good question. Really does make me think but I'm still not certain. There are several reasons I guess. It's probably a combination of things.

1. I am beyond comfortable being by myself - in fact I often prefer it. Now I love to be with people as well. So it's not like I'm a recluse trying to avoid the world or anything but I really, truly am great with being alone. So that right there doesn't push me.

2. Just in life in general I'm rather picky. I think I've said before how about half the people I meet I have zero interest in even having a conversation with. I just don't. Another 40% is okay to do things with and I have fun with some of them but it's only the last 10% who I really, truly connect with. I have a large diversity of friends from all walks of life but only 10% do I really click with. It's the same with attraction for dating - frankly, most people I meet I'm just not interested in.

3. I don't think I come off as open. That's something I've been working more on. I just think though that if you asked people who know me, they would not think I'm open to a GF or an R.

4. I just really deep down don't want a full on R. Now, that said, if I met the right person that would likely change. But the "right person" would be more like me - just looking for something to do things with. Someone looking for their soulmate (at my age) or looking to get married - nope just not me anymore.

5. The times at least recently that I have been interested, either the other person is not, she lives too far away or I find out, sometimes rather quickly, she's not for me. I can't tell you how many I've asked out in the last 5 years not only do not want to date me - they have not dated ANYONE.

So put those together - fine being alone, not really looking, don't connect or get attracted to many, not really wanting a huge R and I guess I get what I get. If you're not hungry, you don't eat. If you don't need money, you may not work. There is just nothing really driving me and most of the time, I'm fine with that. It's mostly the social things that I miss having someone for. I really miss having someone to hold hands with hug, kiss, etc. But obviously not enough to make me take just anyone. I've dated or gotten to know I'll bet 25 women in the last 5 years and honestly only one or two do I wish things would have progressed. I would also miss having someone to talk and share things with but thankfully I have several great friends that fill that spot.

I know all of this could or would change if I met the right person. It just seems like such a needle in the haystack for me. Finding someone who I'm attracted to, who I fit with, who is not looking to rush things, who then is also interested in me, just doesn't seem to happen - at least not recently. And when it does, they are either married, already dating someone or live many miles away.

[job]

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Meanwhile 12 Years Later