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M 10yrs T 13yrs
BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce
April '17-Letting go
2018 D busted
DD8, DS6, DS3
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Originally Posted By: PsySara
I have to catch myself when I sense myself sliding into my old behaviors. WH is still very delicate around me, as if he is afraid my behavior will flip again. I understand this and will continue to work on my anger/rage issues. I need to do this for me and for my family.


I could have said that of myself. Your words earlier about how much there is to learn and gain within ourselves via this mud-puddle we find ourselves in are so true.

Peace unto you Sara.


"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies.
BD: Feb '16
D: Mar '17
Piecing: Putting the self back together was my piecing.
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Sara, I have followed your last thread and wanted to let you know that I'm cheering you on from behind my laptop screen.

I so hope that you will come through this and continue on this wonderful path you are on!

(((((Sara)))))


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
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CT,
I think this terrible and profound journey has made me look very hard at myself. I had some truly awful maladaptive coping mechanisms and serious anger issues. I thought I had them under control but my WH's affair had me regressing and resuming past behaviors. I feel deep shame thinking of how I reacted following BD #1.

Painter,
Thank you so much for the cheer leading! It's great to know there are people supporting the piecing process.

I had to come home late today as I was dealing with a delicate situation at work. It really drained me and triggered some of the feeling surrounding the affair. WH was getting ready for work when I got home, he was dealing with a bad headache too. He asked me about my day and I told him some of the details. He looked pensive and asked how I was doing, I told him I would be alright. He was running late so he couldn't really chat so we said goodnight and I took care of the kids and he left.

Today was a hard day, I still wait for remorse to show one day. WH has these moments where he looks down and I see his mind swirling but I am not sure what he's actually thinking. I wish I could talk to a recovered WS and ask them what made it sink in? I ask myself when does waiting on WH to be ready to face the affair turn into rug sweeping? I avoid talking about OW and the affair right now so I can give us time to start feeling positive emotions. I am able to feel love for him, to feel warmth and desire. I can feel regret and sorrow for the pain I've caused him in the past. He says ILY and had been asking what I need. I just sense he isn't ready to hear the honest answer of what I will need to fully rebuild our M, I need to see he realizes that the affair was 100% on him, that his behavior before and afterward were awful and not justifiable. I want a deep felt apology and I need to hear it more than once. Interestingly enough I no longer feel the rage and anger when I think about him not expressing remorse yet. I just feel so sad. I feel sad that I will know that he shared something sacred and special with another woman while I was completely unaware. That he proposed to her and was excited when she said yes. My heart...it's literally physically and emotionally broken. I do think we could have a beautiful marriage, better than before. But I am not sure if WH will ever have the ability to face the monster he became during the affair. The question is, can I accept that?

Of course this all mental ruminations as I am just raw from triggering events today. Tomorrow is a new day and I will probably be better after a good night's rest.


M 10yrs T 13yrs
BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce
April '17-Letting go
2018 D busted
DD8, DS6, DS3
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Hi Sara,

Take good care of you, sleep is important.
I agree our journeys are parallel, I am just a few months ahead, reading your story is making me look back at my own story.

I am doing quite well right now in comparison of the craziness of those past 3 years, I feel an internal peace, it's quite difficult to describe.
I have been able to stop those resentment thoughts, I still do think from time to time about what happened but my mind doesn't stay on it and move on on something else.

Will our piecing be successful and can I live with somebody who betrayed and lied to me so many times? I truly don't know but strangely it doesn't affect me that much, may be because I know I can be OK without him.

They have their journey we have ours. We changed so much.


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Originally Posted By: PsySara


Today was a hard day, I still wait for remorse to show one day. WH has these moments where he looks down and I see his mind swirling but I am not sure what he's actually thinking. I wish I could talk to a recovered WS and ask them what made it sink in? I ask myself when does waiting on WH to be ready to face the affair turn into rug sweeping? I avoid talking about OW and the affair right now so I can give us time to start feeling positive emotions. I am able to feel love for him, to feel warmth and desire. I can feel regret and sorrow for the pain I've caused him in the past. He says ILY and had been asking what I need. I just sense he isn't ready to hear the honest answer of what I will need to fully rebuild our M, I need to see he realizes that the affair was 100% on him, that his behavior before and afterward were awful and not justifiable. I want a deep felt apology and I need to hear it more than once. Interestingly enough I no longer feel the rage and anger when I think about him not expressing remorse yet. I just feel so sad. I feel sad that I will know that he shared something sacred and special with another woman while I was completely unaware. That he proposed to her and was excited when she said yes. My heart...it's literally physically and emotionally broken. I do think we could have a beautiful marriage, better than before. But I am not sure if WH will ever have the ability to face the monster he became during the affair. The question is, can I accept that?



Hi PsySara,

I am a wayward husband who realized his error and is trying to reform. I'm not qualified to give advice, but you asked for someone's perspective as the recovered WS, and I hope that my story can help.

In my case, my wife and I fought all the time, we both grew up in tough environments and had issues. But it was me that had an emotional affair when I traveled. I came back and told me wife I wanted a divorce, and when she wanted to work on things, I was mean and yelled at her. She also blamed me for a lot of things, and yelled at me as well. But for the most part, I was in a fog and cruel to her. A few things she did lifted the fog a little bit. She started being nicer to me, and moved out to live with her family for a few months. We still stayed in contact every day on Skype. she said she wanted to stay friends. when she said she regretted some of the things she did to make our marriage difficult, my heart softened a little more. However, even when I was alone, and had pushed away all my friends and family in a downward spiral of shame and guilt, I was in a fog. Eventually she moved on, and was interested in another man. I was jealous, but again, I still didn't think I wanted to be with her. Finally, when I went to a meditation retreat, I realized what an a$$ I had been and begged her forgiveness, crying, trying to change. She never forgave me, and was still angry, persecuting me while we tried to piece together our marriage. I tried to do everything I could to make her happy, but i think she didn't see enough and it was too late, and still couldn't forgive me and eventually left me for OM. Not sure if this means she is WW now or just gone. Anyways, after she left, I began to get therapy, taking a hard look at myself, and started doing a lot of inner work to try to be a better person. I think perhaps this is the level of reform and repentance that you are perhaps looking for. So I think at the end of it, I think that two things that really helped push me into reform were: 1. her showing detached kindness to me 2. her moving on for real, so that I had to fend for myself
every situation is different, and in other situations, these might have the opposite of intended affect, but this is what pushed me. it was a long road for me. (1.5 years) anyways, hope that helps. you seem like a really kind and strong person. I hope it all works out for you.


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James,

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I wish my WH had the amount of self awareness you must now have in your pinkie toe. Thanks for sharing the WH mindset, it's so valuable and helpful.

PsySara,

You totally rock! I'm sorry you've had a down day recently but I just wanted to say I think you're amazing. The focus, dedication and strength you've displayed on your journey - wow. You've been fighting a war and you're winning, even if you have to sit down once in a while.

At the start of my journey, I read about standing and I was so desperate to save my marriage I thought, yeah, I'll do this no problems. 9 months later and I've more or less given up. I think I would feel better about trying if I could at least see WH more frequently, but I see him for maybe 5-10 mins 2 or 3 times a week. While OW is wrapped up in him body and soul. I've been reading your thread over and over again, and it's sustained me while I could keep going, and I just wanted to say thanks for sharing. Keep up the good fight.


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James -- wow. Thanks.


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Apr 2016: BD2
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Sara,

The anger/rage control is critical. We are not that person when we first date someone yet somehow tend to gravitate to poor habits. You are doing well and have made significant progress in controlling the rage.

Whether a person is piecing or D'd...the feeling of sadness is another stage for the LBS. I no longer feel anger or rage towards my XW for what she did, I feel sad that she and I contributed to breaking up a family. I feel sad that she had to look elsewhere for her needs and that we had difficulty communicating.

D'd or reconciling, the A will be a blip in time and the expectation of the LBS wanting the WW/WH to feel remorse will not matter.

Keep fighting! I am on your side!

(((Sara)))


H-46 XW-38 T-7 M-6
S-9,8,8,6,4
S 11/30/15, I filed 12/8/15
EA 2/1/16 D dismissed 3/24/16
PA 3/18/16 confirmed 4/22/16
XW files for D 4/1/16 - D final 11/17/16
Finally moving forward...
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James,
Thank you so much for your insight, I have be re-reading your post and trying to see how it can be applied in my situation. I feel like WH just doesn't have the strength to face his demons yet. In the meantime we are moving more towards piecing, I still don't have the courage to put it in my signature though.

2016,
Are you forcing yourself out of your house? Engaging with friends and DBing your relationships with folks you aren't married to? This was the key to my detaching, I filled up my time with those who love me and KNOW it. Don't give up, it's not over until it over. Go to BluWave's thread and take a leaf from her book. Her WH left her for the OW and lived with her for about a year I believe. He came back but inly after Blu finally and truly moved on.

JK,
Thank you so much for your words, they are very encouraging. I have noticed I am more patient with my children, my WH and my friends. This DBing process has taught me a LOT about myself and continues to do so.

So a big 180 for me yesterday, I took WH to the Ducati dealership and helped him pick out a bike. He exchanged one of his bikes and got a great deal. Recently I bought a shop vac on his Amazon account and spent yesterday evening detailing the inside of the family van and my car. WH was in the garage and looking over his new toy. He kept thanking me over and over again though it was his money he spent. It's so weird but I had a great time detailing the vehicles and was all cheerful and spunky.

Tonight I plan on surprising him with an early Valentine's day gift in the bedroom. blush


M 10yrs T 13yrs
BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce
April '17-Letting go
2018 D busted
DD8, DS6, DS3
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Just stopping to say Hi,

So happy that you are doing great. I am much more patient too and have more empathy too. You are on the right track, having fun and not focusing only on him.
For the remorse, don't be to impatient, it takes time (a few months), and it might not be through words but more through actions at first. I went through that phase also where I was waiting for him to express his remorse almost every day, I almost asked him the question but decided against it. Then I had my phase with resentment, big waves... now I am in a good place (not perfect but comfortable), and since I am not after him anymore or trying to push him to express his remorse, he is doing things around the house he never did before... He changed so much (for the better). From what I read, it takes about one to two years for them to express true remorse if they do.
Have a nice week and Carpe Diem.


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Originally Posted By: PsySara

2016,
Are you forcing yourself out of your house? Engaging with friends and DBing your relationships with folks you aren't married to? This was the key to my detaching, I filled up my time with those who love me and KNOW it. Don't give up, it's not over until it over. Go to BluWave's thread and take a leaf from her book. Her WH left her for the OW and lived with her for about a year I believe. He came back but inly after Blu finally and truly moved on.


Hi PsySara!

Thanks for taking the time out to address issues in my sitch. I have been GAL-ing, or at least mimicking GAL-ing. I've been going out and forcing myself to do things even when I don't want to. I've started dressing better and have become more disciplined with make up - I look better and I know it. I can't look like the person he fell for because my hair is so short now - won't grow back after the chemo properly, and OW has long luscious hair like I had when we were dating, but hey ho.

I do read Bluwave's thread repeatedly as well, but I realise I can only control my end of things and I think both yours and Blu's WHs were more motivated to make things work in the long run. My WH is being v cold and is refusing to entertain R for any reason, even our 3 year old son. It's 9 months since he's shacked up with OW and I keep hoping that familiarity breeds contempt but it seems they are getting stronger all the time : (

SkyHigh - I've been looking for your thread but I can't find it - could you send it to me? I am so intrigued by your sitch - I would love to know how the last OW left - what happened?


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I don't have a thread, may be one day.

I did a targeted exposure, it created a mess in their relationship and exposed the lies they were telling each other. I decided that enough was enough. Also I was fully ready to file for divorce when I did it, but I never used any foul language or spew. It made him realize in which mess he was and how ready I was to move on and fight for myself and my kids rights. It shook his fantasy land.

I think a lot of LBS are too scared of losing their WH or WW and keep playing nice without really detaching or installing boundaries. It just reinforces the WH/WW bad behavior. But that's only my personal opinion.


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Quote:
think a lot of LBS are too scared of losing their WH or WW and keep playing nice without really detaching or installing boundaries. It just reinforces the WH/WW bad behavior. But that's only my personal opinion.


Spot on. For some reason, many LBS's believe that if they don't rock the boat, then their spouse will somehow magically see the error of their ways and come back.


There are moments in this life when you are so confident in the rightness of your actions, that not even for a second do you consider the option that you might be wrong.
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I've tried to do an exposure of sorts - when WH scarpered off to OW4, I immediately messaged her telling her all the lies he had told her, i.e. we had never started the divorce process (he told her we had started it months ago and I was agreeable to it), that I was fighting for our marriage and asked her to leave us alone (he led her to believe I didn't care about him), and that she was number 4. She didn't believe anything I said. He said I was the liar and she chose to believe him.

I've confronted OWs2&3, sort of - not face to face but sent them emails saying I knew about them and could you mind your own business please. In a way I came to regret this later because it was only through my interventions that WH's messing about stopped - never because he actively chose it. They either left him or I scared them off. And he's just motored on and found another one, and I've realised it's stopped him from addressing whatever issues that's motivating him to do this.

Skyhigh - it sounds like your WH was shocked into sense. I don't think it will work with my WH, I think it would just harden his resolve to d!ck about.

I am tempted to expose to OW's parents as PsySara did, but have decided against it in the end. As satisfying as it will be for all of ten mins, I think the best case scenario from this is that OW dumps him. He might come back simply because he's got nowhere to go and then run off again when he finds another OW.

And besides, I'm in it for the long game now - I want revenge. And revenge is going to be him looking at his ugly OW (she is SO horse faced it's unbelievable, someone give the woman a carrot) in a couple of years' time, looking over to me, mother of his child, all beatific and serene and happy, and thinking, when she nags him about the bum around the house that he is, I gave that up for this?

Bring it karma, oh please, please, bring it.


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2016, exposure is not to tell the OW that you know, because they won't listen to you and they won't believe you anyway but to expose her or him to others. Speaking to the OW doesn't work. I exposed OW to her parents and siblings, pastors and the president of the board where she was a member (she was kicked out), I exposed him to some of his friends, I shook their "reputation", bye bye secrets... it created consequences to them, they had to face how others where seeing them, it forced them out of their fantasy land. That's exposure. I created a crack who forced them to take a look at themselves.


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Originally Posted By: skyhigh
It created consequences to them, they had to face how others were seeing them, it forced them out of their fantasy land. That's exposure. I created a crack who forced them to take a look at themselves.

Ahh I get what you mean now.

I did do something like that - in December I wrote to all the close family and friends I knew. Response was patchy. Some wrote back supportive, one family friend (of MiL's) sent a particularly vitriolic letter accusing me of having no class and washing dirty linen in public and didn't I know that he wouldn't have cheated if I hadn't made him unhappy... I binned that letter immediately. It was hurtful but I've rationalised that it came from someone who has had affairs herself and left her own husband.

In all cases, they have all cut me off. For them it's time to choose sides and while some have said they sympathise with my situation, all of chosen WH's family. Not WH per se because he doesn't bother with them, but WH's mother. She is the family matriarch and is at the centre of all relationships. There's no way anyone would express loyalty to me over her. MiL has made it very clear that golden boy WH was driven to his actions.

Both MiL and FiL have had affairs. I have referenced FiL's affair to MiL, asking for her understanding in how I feel. She totally clammed up and refused to engage.

I think the difference is the society in UK. There is more reticence here about talking about personal stuff, but more importantly, generally this is quite a godless society. My WH and his lot are hardcore atheists. It's seen as regressive to have faith. In this society, what WH and OW are doing is uncomfortable, but largely acceptable to them. Even if people disagreed with what they're doing, it's a big no-no in the UK to bring up their behaviour to them. It's this mentality that makes me desperate to leave. I feel like I'm living in Gomorrah.

I have faith and it's getting me through this, but also it's alienating WH from me even more because he sees it as me going even more crazy than he's painted me out to be.


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Skyhigh,
I think the true battle is wrestling with my resentment when the time is quiet and I fond my mind wandering. I have to remind myself of the end goal, a strong and functional marriage. I am seeing ACTIONS from WH that show he has plugged into this marriage. He gazes at me a lot, touches me gently, verbalizes his appreciation for my kindness and softness towards him. He not only does stuff around the house for me but also is pre-emptive now which utterly unlike our past interactions before BD. But something inside me wiggles uncomfortably, like a canker sore that you keep touching with your tongue. I know rationally if I stop bothering it, it would heal, but I drift back to touching on something painful. Why do I do this? I keep fantasizing about him coming to me and telling me how I am the love of his life, that OW couldn't hold a candle to me, and not the least but how sorry sorry sorry he is. Michelle said so herself in one of her videos, "You (WS) can't say sorry enough." But historically when I've approached this it went down in a flaming heap. So I just...poke...poke...poke.

2016,
There are very opposing POV with regards to exposure. Part of me feels if I had exposed OW to her parents sooner then the relationship would not have rekindled later. Ironically when I exposed OW to her parents, went dark my WH came crawling back and promised we could try again. Three days later he and OW were sleeping together again. I was unaware and thought WH was just going through withdrawals and that's why he was so cut off and cold towards me. He actually told OW not to worry about me because he thought our R was over. I sometimes still fantasize about writing her parents another letter letting them know their daughter slept with a married man after she promised them and me she would never go near my H again. Why? Sheer rage and a desire to make her feel some of the heartache I still feel. But it would likely just cause my WH to pull back and lack trust in me again, I have a bit of an anger issue. I know with certainty I should not have exposed my WH to his parents, that was a horrible mistake. He now has next to no relationship with his parents (because his mother always screams at him..not about the affair but because she wants more money from him) and they blame me for WH being so distant.

So things continue to go smoothly with WH. He is gentle and polite, kind and playful with me. But I have this wall that I can't cross over, one that I put in place. I am hoping that WH is not rug sweeping. I have made myself appealing and definitely somebody he doesn't want to lose. But I grow sad lately, thinking how I probably won't ever think I am the love of his life. If so, he would not have cheated on me. I want to cry when the thoughts intrude about him proposing to her, of having sex with her, of planning a future together. It's like there is this little devil on my shoulder whispering how many ways WH hurt me. While he's not hurting me now it like's there is some infected wound needing purging. I would really like some vets here to weigh in on this; when is it right to lay out to your spouse what is necessary to recover from infidelity? Will it be possible given WH is the King of Avoiding conflict?


M 10yrs T 13yrs
BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce
April '17-Letting go
2018 D busted
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One word: Patience, don't destroy what took you so much effort and patience to reach, remember you are in for a marathon not a sprint. They are still very touchy for several months, but you will notice in 2 or 3 months that things will start to normalize and you will be able to talk about your triggers with him.

Resentment somehow will fade away in a few weeks, don't try to engage him in any talks right now about remorse or OW, he is probably not ready for that at all, so it's a big No No, don't poke him on it or he might go backward. I totally get how anger and resentment alternate in your mind.


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Originally Posted By: PsySara
It's like there is this little devil on my shoulder whispering how many ways WH hurt me.

Those in the Christian marriage restoration business would say that you've hit the nail on the head - there is, literally, an evil spirit urging you to take actions that would undo all the good work you've done so far, urging you to destroy your marriage by your own hands.

I've gone back to the Bible for guidance on how to walk this path, and described in there is that the real battles we fight are spiritual. To borrow this framework, your enemy is not your husband, but the spirits who wish to see the demise of your marriage and the breaking of your home. These spirits are the voice of doubt, the nagging questions.

If you are to remain outcome focussed, you know entertaining these doubts are useless, and will be counter productive. It's like trying to lose weight and thinking of donuts all the time.

So what if your husband made promises to this silly OW? You don't know on what basis he made them. Did he make them because it got her into bed more quickly? I wouldn't think on it further if you can help it - you know what he said but not why he said it, and in my mind that's more important. For all you know in that incarnation with OW he was no better than a used car salesman - anything to close the deal.

There are similarities between us, apart from the yawning gap in outcomes. My WH is also a King of Conflict Avoidance. And I too have a problem with anger - I am too comfortable with it, I find it protective because it stops me from feeling pain and so unthinkingly for many years I went straight into anger, fury even, to avoid the real issues. So I know how incredibly hard it must have been to come this far, and you have come so so SO far. Don't let the voice of doubt jeopardise this. Put it aside and decide to come to it in 6 month's time at least. If it's still there, then analyse why and take it from there. In the meantime, enjoy what you've worked so hard for. What you've described of WH's behaviour - I would kill for that.


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Sara, I share your internal battle, I went through that, those waves of resentment came coming to me when the situation started to get better with my husband, once our mind starts to relax, here they come, they haunt us. Like you I had those agonizing resentment thoughts. How could have done that to me? At one point I didn't even know if I still loved him anymore, I had thoughts about leaving him... I kept having those flashes of him and them.

It was really an internal battle not to talk to him about those thoughts and share them with him. What kept me going? I told myself "OK, he is back, he is showing good will, not the one you want (saying I am sorry, remorse...), but at least he is here, my kids have their dad back and he is now present in their life, don't be so selfish, think about them, don't mess up".

In my mind there was a constant dialogue, between anger/resentment and reason. I kept myself busy with the kids and activities. I never talked to him about what was going on, I didn't want to scare him, and also I knew somehow the relationship was still fragile/shaky, one mistake, and he might be going back into withdrawal.

I still experience those thoughts from time to time, but their intensity is much lower and not everyday but like you I still have a wall inside me, I didn't lower my guard fully. Do I still get mad? Yes, I hated Valentine's Day, I bought cards for the kids and just looking at those cards for husband and their messages, it triggered a huge "hatred" and sadness in me, I didn't buy any for him or even wished him a happy St Valentine. I was a mess that day. I was glad he has a very busy schedule that day and came back late because I was ready to explode and tell him what was going through my mind. He got me flowers... the first ones in many years for that day.

Detaching is not only during the "replay phase" but also after. Most probably, your husband is now in the depression/withdrawal phase, so he is trying to figure out what happened and why. He has a lot of work to do on himself, only after he is done with it he will be ready to talk with you and express remorse. Now the best he can do, is showing you that he cares for you through his actions, and sincerely words are nice but actions are much better, remember they "promised and talked" a lot to OW but they were only words, they never implemented anything with them. They are with us. Men are not creatures of words like us women, they are more into actions, they show they care though gestures.

My husband is done with the depression/withdrawal phase, it lasted a good 6 months, he is now in the first phase of the "awakening". I can tell he is more "relaxed" by his body language.

Stay patient, I do understand and share your worries about rug sweeping, I have that in my mind too. We are in a journey, a long one. Trying to shortcut that journey will only set us back. Do we have to lower our expectations? Certainly not, but some conversations cannot be done if the timing is not right.


Me 52+ WH 57+
Married 20 +
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2016,
I have to keep reminding myself of how far I've come since Dday. I was an utter basket case for at least three months. I don't remember a lot but I can recall at one point lying on my office couch and sobbing. My heart ached, my skin hurt, heck I think even my hair hurt. I kept waiting to wake up from the nightmare that was my life. There was no mental place in my head for my WH actually cheating on me while I was pregnant. He actually proposed her being a second wife and she accepted. They began having sex and then WH asked me how I felt about a second wife. I thought he was making a joke, like marrying a motorcycle or something. But then I realized he was serious and I felt like the floor just gave way beneath me. I demanded to know if they had sex and he vehemently denied it for 4 days, even swore on the Quran, until I restored his phone messages. I even spoke to her on the phone and was gracious and kind, she apologized and said she would never speak to him again. Of course that was all lies and lies and lies. The fact that he would actually consider such a despicable person my equal (a co-wife when I don't even believe in polygyny in the modern day) really gets my goat. My DBing coach says I am still stuck on "somebody's gonna pay" and he's right. So I make sure not to react and put myself somewhere else away from WH until the rage passes.

Skyhigh,
I have read and re-read your post, it has been very soothing. Valentine's day was a mixed bag for sure. WH wanted to take me out to lunch but got caught in a traffic jam and was an hour late, this resulted in us going to grab some fast food instead. He was extremely apologetic and asked me if there was anything he could do to make it up to me. I wanted sooooo bad to tell him, "Let's go for a 2 day intensive with MWD!" LOL!!! In the end there is a huge part of ego in this. He kicked the teeth out of my ego and I find myself wanting to lash out because of the pain he caused. But I remember my mindfulness and focus on the NOW. WH is working VERY hard to be a better husband. While he doesn't read self help books or go to IC he does ask me every day if he can do something or say something to make me feel good. Sometimes I feel like a tightrope walker. I know his ego is very fragile and he is pretty raw from all the raging I was doing.

This week WH has come home twice telling me he was missing me and the kids. He touches me a lot and we ML quite often. HE helps with the kids a lot and shows appreciation when I do the regular routine. It's strange but the resentment is so powerful now, while everything is going as I desire. When I was in crises mode and practicing the LRT I would have thought I would NEVER feel resentful if WH simply re-engaged into our marriage. But here I am, battling this ugly demon in my head. It helps to read my experience is not unique. I am very grateful for getting s second (third?fourth?) chance to save my marriage. This picing is HARD. I think as a reward to myself I will finally put piecing into my signature again.


M 10yrs T 13yrs
BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce
April '17-Letting go
2018 D busted
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I think those resentment waves are hitting us during piecing because we can finally "rest" our mind, we are not in constant fighting mode anymore. Rest is nice but it allows us also to look back at those past events under a different angle, we are not reacting to them and trying to find a solution but now we are analyzing and judging them. We are getting hit by the harsh reality of their behavior toward us, we are becoming aware of the huge discrepancy between "them" and "us", we have been destroyed emotionally, we have been cheated and lied, our trust has been exploited, but them, they had a "good time", nobody cheated on them, nobody lied to them, nobody exploited their trust, they messed up and we have to be nice to them, it's all good...

Who should be grateful for piecing us or them? I don't have a answer right now.

I know he is trying very hard to prove me that he changed, he is giving me proofs of that every day so right now I am going to satisfy myself with it even if I wished he could be more "remorseful" with words. Stay detached is the key to keep going until that MLC journey is done. I am thankful that my children have their dad and their mom together, everyday I witness how divorce/separation can affect children and it's hurt my heart.
Kids are very good at hiding their emotions to their parents but at school they lower their guard and allow their emotions to resurface and believe me that's heart wrenching.


Me 52+ WH 57+
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Woohoo PsySara! In piecing! I feel very happy for you that you feel safe enough in the process to say you're in piecing. In my mind I think you're several months into the process already. It's difficult to bare your heart and say you're in piecing when you've been so hurt before. It's a brave thing to do, and I admire you for it.

Your discussion with SkyHigh has been so interesting. I don't know about other newbies, but I used to imagine that if WH decided to come back then the worst was over. I have a friend who is a psychotherapist who says she thinks this is the point when it really gets hard, but I've never agreed before because, to me, having your family intact was worth anything. Your discussion has made me see how extremely wearing and difficult it is. You guys are awesome. I still hope to join your ranks some day.


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Skyhigh,
The mental dichotomy of piecing while fighting my own desire to "make him pay" is really hard to put into words, you did it quite well. Part of me wonders if he will ever truly "get it" with regards to the depths of pain he inflicted on me? Part of me is afraid if he doesn't, he will repeat the behavior. Another part of me wonders if I am just continually setting the goal post out farther and farther? My WH is WAY outside his comfort zone but he continually puts himself there and tries to find ways to make me happy. I know I am responsible for my own happiness but it does feel good that he cares about my happiness, kwim? Now that things are feeling calmed down all those niggling doubts rise up and my mind tries to play mind movies again. I practice my thought stopping and continually reground myself in the now. I remind myself that I chose to give him a second chance, the power is in my hands. I am grieving the loss of him being "the one." When your husband proposes to another woman, sleeps with her and shares the most intimate parts of himself it's kind of hard to go back to thinking of him as my soulmate, ya know? So I have to grieve the loss of that fantasy. Now my love for him is an active choice and not an assumption.

2016,
Reading Bluwave's thread was immensely relieving. She once wrote about a year after she started piecing she was driving home while hot tears of anger and grief washed over her face. Her mind went over the horrible things her WH did and how she wasn't sure she could get past it. I felt a BIG breath of relief leave my body. I struggle with that too, am I able to get over this? Will this curdling heat of resentment ever leave me? I am careful not to let it leak into our interactions as it would be counterproductive right now. I don't want to be a single mom and I don't want to inflict divorce on my children's lives. But I didn't want to be married to a man who would lie and cheat on me...twice. So my options are to divorce and move on (with the inevitable collateral damage to the kids) or find a way to be strong enough to overcome my WH's betrayals. The answer still isn't clear. I do know I can't do anything about the past but I can at least influence the now and thus the future.


Journaling; Wh continues to put deposits into my love bank and I try to meet his needs as well. I touch him a lot, cuddle and give words of affirmation with a sprinkle of acts of service. He surprised me by picking me up for lunch today and taking me to a very expensive restaurant. He has to work tonight so this cut into his rest time. We chatted during lunch and laughed a lot. He would reach over and take my hand to kiss it, he says thank you all the time. I ask him why he is thanking me and he says "For being so kind to me." He has started praying his salats again and I see him praying very hard duas afterward. I think the enormity or his actions are starting to sink in. I do not envy the battle he will be fighting internally.

The baby has started to favor him over me, this is very different from the other kids as they were primarily attached to me for the 1st two years. I think the difference is due to the baby being formula fed and thus not completely dependent on me. One of the sad side effects of the stress of my wrecked marriage was my milk drying up prematurely. WH feels absolutely awful for this as I had been able to breastfeed both previous children 2 years each. I was having to supplement by 2 months and later I was making nothing. The upside is the baby can stay overnight with family if WH and I want a weekend getaway.
So when WH comes home the baby makes a beeline to him and clings like a tiny monkey. WH just melts when this happens and will cuddle the baby for hours.

WH touches my face a lot to caress it, something he did in the very beginning of our relationship. He smiles at me and I catch his gaze holding for long periods of time. I find myself gushing in conversations like I used to and have to calm myself down. I tend to talk waaaay too much when excited whereas WH is more reserved and less talkative. I continue to dress nice/sexy around the house and wear light perfume. WH loves to see me dressed nicely and always comments how good I smell. I have been missing gym lately because of work but need to find a way to exercise more consistently again, it has helped immensely with mood and energy.

Friends of ours comment on how happy we appear together. I can honestly say when I am with him, I feel happy. It's when it's quiet and I am not busy that my mind starts to wander back to my anger and resentment. It's like having a worry stone, something you turn over and over in your hand. The edges are rough and uneven, you know the imperfections well but you continue to seek out these details. It's foolish and self defeating but you do it over and over.


M 10yrs T 13yrs
BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce
April '17-Letting go
2018 D busted
DD8, DS6, DS3
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PsySara

You are a total warrior. Your weapons are grace, compassion and forgiveness. I am so inspired by you.

What you said about the answer not being clear, I think given how monumental and wide reaching such a decision is, it necessarily can't be grasped all at once. BluWave advised me recently that things change all the time and I recognise the truth of her words. Situations evolve all the time. This is a transition period.

I would think the answer would be you continue fighting the good fight until you decide you can't anymore. You can file for divorce anytime - today, tomorrow, ten years from now. But you have this valuable window in which to save the marriage - once it closes its much harder to re-open, if possible at all, than deciding to get divorced.

It sounds like you're not just saving the marriage, but making it better. I am so happy for you. Your story is truly inspiring.


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Just want to say I could not do what you're doing.

Your strength to love and endure all that is so clearly unjust and hurtful is superhuman.


Me: 50, MLC/WW 45
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Apr 2016: BD2
Jan 2017: W filed
Feb 2017: D final
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2016,
Thank you so much, I am not sure I deserve all that praise given how many times I have fallen on my face during this process. laugh But I am glad someone can gain some positive experience reading my posts. Previously I had gone into old threads (I reset for most replies and paid attention to signatures for my research) and focused on the ones who gained what they wanted from the process. Interestingly the "success" stories were of both types, divorces and reconciliations. There was a larger reconciliation pool on the male DBers however. I puzzled over this until I realized males tend to be solution focused by nature and view DBing as a tactical guide. It was like reading war strategies then the guys got into the thick of it, entertaining and edifying at the same time.

ForGump,
Honestly it has more to do with my own selfish desires. I want a nuclear family. I want a strong and healthy marriage and will go to the gates of hell for it. I have enormous flaws as does my WH and I have had to do a lot of painful introspection in this process. The fact of the matter is, I have very poor impulse control when it comes to feeling anger and I have to find a way to control it. I am still puzzling over this. Is this rug sweeping or piecing? Sometimes I am 100% sure we are heading towards piecing but then there has been NO talk of the affair or WH's atrocious behavior afterward. So I am left to kind of stumble along. I am in territory I have never been in before.

Journaling...so I continue to validate and do 180s. I have slacked off in the self care so I have to give myself a swift kick and get back in the saddle. I need to stop the excuses and get back to the gym. I need to keep reaching out to my friends who are the most loving and supportive. I need to keep my words soft so it will be easier to eat them. LOL I have another GYN appointment to schedule (3 months pap smears for a year and then 6 months for another year) to check if the HPV is finally gone. I sort of tripped up WH when telling him a joke a comedian said about men not using protection until a disease comes out that makes their penis explode upon insertion. I was giggling hysterically while relaying it but WH looked pensive afterward. Oops.

It is frustrating and upsetting that previously enjoyed jokes are not shadowed by WH affair. I wish the day would come (sooner) when he and I are not so easily triggered.


M 10yrs T 13yrs
BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce
April '17-Letting go
2018 D busted
DD8, DS6, DS3
Joined: Nov 2016
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"Honestly it has more to do with my own selfish desires. I want a nuclear family. I want a strong and healthy marriage and will go to the gates of hell for it. I have enormous flaws as does my WH and I have had to do a lot of painful introspection in this process. The fact of the matter is, I have very poor impulse control when it comes to feeling anger and I have to find a way to control it. I am still puzzling over this. Is this rug sweeping or piecing? Sometimes I am 100% sure we are heading towards piecing but then there has been NO talk of the affair or WH's atrocious behavior afterward. So I am left to kind of stumble along. I am in territory I have never been in before"


Sara,

I hope you take my comments in the manner that they are intended. I have not shared 90% of my sitch on these forums. Mostly because nobody would believe it. I don't even think Hollywood would buy my story because it is simply too unreal.

I can tell you that based on the above quoted comments, you are MAJORLY rug sweeping. That might be OK for now, but you need a real dose of the reality that is coming.

As you get closer to your WH in the coming weeks, months, maybe years, your anger will grow. The more comfortable that you become with him, the more resentment you are going to have for him. Just ask BluWave or read her threads.

When our WAS are away from us and seem to be out of reach, we would give anything to just have a chance to even begin to piece or reconcile. But the truth is, once they do come back, the anger, bitterness and resentment starts to grow.

In order for this to be a true reconciliation, your WH needs to pour open and be remorseful. He needs to be able to answer any question that you have. If you both just go through the motions and try to the next day, you will not make it.

I am not telling you that you need to confront him or put a bunch of pressure on him, but you really need to to rip this whole thing open at some point. If you rug sweep for the sake of "saving your nuclear family", you will go crazy and be miserable.

The only thing that I would honestly advise against is asking for details. I think most of the time the man wants all of the details about his wife's affair. Whereas, women don't really need all of the details about their husbands affair. They are usually more concerned weather he loved her or not.

Just be careful if you want to know details about times, places, positions, etc. Once you know these things, you can't unknow them and they will stay with you for life.

Hang in there and don't make any sudden moves to scare the squirrel off. But please read everything I wrote and take it to heart. I have been through it and it was the worst hell I could have ever imagined.


M-42
W-40
S-12
D-10
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Married-10 years
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ILYBINILWY-7/2016
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Let me clarify, I know all the ends and outs of the affair. The main problem is when the affair came up in the past the conversation would spiral into an ugly argument and sometimes divorce would be the end discussion. (both he and I have done that at different times) After this last big fight in December WH said he would looking for a lawyer and then I started the LRT. WH came back and asked to start piecing. I haven't brought up the affair as I am trying to build our relationship back so that we are stable enough to discuss the affair without it wrecking us. But at some point I need to see he has done hard core introspection and can discuss this with me.


M 10yrs T 13yrs
BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce
April '17-Letting go
2018 D busted
DD8, DS6, DS3
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Journaling: it looks like WH is going through some internal struggle. He is quiet, pensive and has long moments staring into the distance. I asked him how he is feeling, he said he feels "flat" and like he can't feel pleasure he previously used to feel doing enjoyable things. His concentration and focus are poor, his appetite is hit or miss. I told him he is depressed, he asked me to prescribe him something so I did. I think the fallout of his actions and resulting damage are starting to sink in, and it's crushing him.

I had lunch with him today at his job. Afterward we walked along the river and siaked up the warm rays and felt the breeze push against our face. He was a bit cheered afterward and kissed me goodbye. I just heard him pull up from his call, be back later.


M 10yrs T 13yrs
BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce
April '17-Letting go
2018 D busted
DD8, DS6, DS3
Joined: Dec 2016
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Glad to read that everything is still doing Ok.

Your husband is most probably into the phase of Depression/withdrawal of the MLC, they are entwined. He is starting to reflect on his past actions and how they impacted you and the kids, that's a tough period for them. Now it's a time for him to understand what led him to those acts, it might come to him all at once or one at a time.

Don't expect him to talk to you during that phase about what's going through his mind and if you try to push him, you won't get any answers and he might get "mad", shame/remorse/guilt are starting to hit him very hard. Another phase to get through, remember it's a journey.

Now to cheer you up a tiny bit, those waves of resentment will go down and you will notice you can have a few days in a row without any, so stay detached and GAL, the more you are engaged with others the better you will feel. It's important during that piecing journey to stay in touch with good friends and have fun, nothing is more uplifting than a good conversation/laugh with great people. Also I noticed the happier I am the more he wants to be with me, he is now joining me to some of my GAL activities without me asking him to do so. I think he is starting to realize that I can live and be happy without him and it scares him a tiny bit.

He needs to get through that phase by himself, that's excellent you prescribed him some AD, it might help him to get through it faster. My husband stayed in that phase for about 6 months, he is now in the stage 1 of acceptance, his crazy MLC personality is definitively gone. He is still not willing to talk about the past but when I talk about it, he doesn't get upset anymore. Also, he is becoming more and more attentive to my needs without me asking for anything, he wants me to be happy and with him... he started to complain that I don't spend enough time with him...wow one year ago, he was complaining that I was to clingy.


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Thank you Sky, your advice is spot-on. I've started reading HEaling from Infidelity by MWD and honestly I am feeling a little discouraged. There are parts written for the unfaithful spouse and WH has made it clear he will not read any material. In the past I asked, then begged then demanded...all with various levels of failure.So it begs the question, can we piece if this affair remains the elephant in the room?

WH often asks me if I am ok, if I need anything. I have even written (in Dec '15) the list of what I needed to heal. While he is asking what I need I have made it clear in written terms, a few of the listed items was IC for each of us and MC for us. He went to MC but it resulted in disaster and the MC suggested divorce. Another was he was to read a book "How to help your spouse heal from your affair" but then he followed up by reigniting the affair. Sigh. There have been moments where he tells me how sorry he was about the affair but this usually ended with an argument as he would be defensive when I expressed my hurt by telling all the ways I was not enough of a wife. Since our last fight in Jan where he said he was finding a lawyer....followed by his request of reconcilation we have not talked about the affair at all. So reading the book makes me feel bad because WH isn't going to read this book. He will tell me he will but then never get around to it. I've already suggested two books in the past which he promised to read and then didn't.

Last night we had to call an ambulance because D6 woke around 12:30 and couldn't breathe. Turns out 6 years can get croup, who would've guessed? I went with my daughter to the hospital and WH stayed home with the younger children. He was a wreck, pacing and asking if we needed anything. After a few breathing treatments and some oral steroids she was 100% better. We took an Uber home and WH took DD6 and I collapsed into bed. WH had to go to work today and took care of the guinea pigs and cat before going to work. He kissed me goodbye and told me to call if I needed anything.

I look at these actions and realize that WH is engaged in our marriage, he is more engaged than ever before. So why I am I struggling? Why do I still wonder if he truly loves me? Why do I worry it's a matter of time before he cheats again? I really wish he would consider the two day intensive with MWD so I could feel like he "gets it."


M 10yrs T 13yrs
BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce
April '17-Letting go
2018 D busted
DD8, DS6, DS3
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Sara, I'm glad to hear you're D is OK. My youngest D has asthma and it's the scariest thing to have a child not be able to breathe.

Why are you still struggling? You need to give yourself time to heal. Lots of time. Everyone is different. It took me years to "let it go". I don't want to discourage you, but I never felt loved again, or maybe trusted it is a better way of saying it, after the 1st affair and that was 16 years ago. Maybe there was a reason for that because I'm walking that same path again.

As for WH,he's feeling tremendous guilt and knows he can't ever take back the betrayal. My H explained it that way to me the 1st time. He said he knew the pain he caused and knew he couldn't fix it. There's no way to guarantee it won't happen again. I decided then that I would there was nothing I could do if he chose to cheat again. I could spend my days miserable thinking endlessly about it (which I did in the beginning) or I could try to move past it and hopefully into a better marriage. I hope you can eventually move past it. I hope you can make a success of your marriage.


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Sara, take a deep breath, calm down.

Your husband is in full depression/withdrawal phase, he is starting to realize what he did and it's hurting/torturing him, he is trying to show that he changed by his actions. Put more emphasize on those than on his words. He is not ready to have that talk that you desperately would like to happen. I went through that phase a few months ago, like you I wanted so badly some apologies, but when I asked for some he became defensive/touchy. I stopped but inside myself I was boiling, I even thought about filing for divorce just to stop that pain/anger/frustration I had inside myself.

Nowadays sincerely, I don't think about it every day, I am much more focused on his actions/behavior and how he reacts when we talk about the past, his touchiness is almost gone. We had a conversation about OWs last Friday night, I told him that I was hating them and de facto how I was disgusted by his past actions, he didn't protest or try to defend them as he used to do, he just said " I am here because I want to be here", not exactly the full apology I dreamed about a few months ago, but I will take it. It doesn't mean I am fully satisfied but that a big step in the right direction.

Try not to focus so much on the list you made, may be take a break from some reading and just enjoy to have him back and caring for you. Reading is very helpful but use that information more as general guidelines.

The elephant in the room will disappear little by little, trust me on that one, I really thought I was going to have to live with those obsessing thoughts forever, guess what, they are not in mind daily anymore and their intensity went down sharply. You accomplished a lot, you were able to make him rethink his mind about leaving you, he is now showing you that he cares, don't destroy all the progress you made because of the demons you have in your mind, I had the same, I used to talk daily to a friend and it helped to calm me down. Be patient, he won't get out of his phase before a few months but you will start noticing some changes little by little.

Put yourself in his shoes for a moment (I am not trying to excuse him by any mean), he is realizing that his quest for happiness almost destroyed his wife and family, he is now trying to understand what went wrong with him, he is also unsure (on the fence) if you "really" want him after everything he did and said. He might also be very skeptical that it might work down the line, mine thought it was not going to work and I was going to bring it back all the time, he was quite obsessed with that idea, somehow he had a very hard time believing I could accept him again. His mind is in full turmoil right now. He is not ready to talk about.

Men have a very hard time apologizing with words or at least in the way we would like it, praise him for his good deeds, make him "trust" you, most probably he might be fearful of your reactions in regard of his past actions so to avoid any conversation on that subject. That also why IC or MC might be very scary for him. Having an EA is something but having a PA and making plans of leaving your wife and children is something different.

My husband refused to read any book or to go to counseling too, I was a first quite angry/frustrated at him, because it was going against everything I read and I thought we won't be able to piece without them. So I decided to ask him to make some mandatory changes to his lifestyle and habits, he complied and also came up with a few of his own without me asking. It took me a while to accept his refusal, there is still moments I wish we could go to MC then I remind myself that I have never been so at peace/happy since a few years. I really don't know if our piecing will be successful down the line because MLC is a long journey but I am glad that replay is over...the worst years of my life.


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Originally Posted By: skyhigh
Your husband is most probably into the phase of Depression/withdrawal of the MLC, they are entwined. He is starting to reflect on his past actions and how they impacted you and the kids, that's a tough period for them. Now it's a time for him to understand what led him to those acts, it might come to him all at once or one at a time.

Don't expect him to talk to you during that phase about what's going through his mind and if you try to push him, you won't get any answers and he might get "mad", shame/remorse/guilt are starting to hit him very hard. Another phase to get through, ...

... those waves of resentment will go down and you will notice you can have a few days in a row without any, ... ...

He needs to get through that phase by himself, that's excellent you prescribed him some AD, it might help him to get through it faster. My husband stayed in that phase for about 6 months, he is now in the stage 1 of acceptance, his crazy MLC personality is definitively gone. ...


skyhigh, can you elaborate on the "phases" that you are talking about? Where did you get this info? Or is this only in your experience with your H?

None of this applies to my H since we started piecing. I have not seen any definitive phases or stages. Or perhaps I have overlooked things? He came back remorseful and regretful, and while he was afraid it would never work, he said he would do everything to try. I would love to find more info on what you are referring to.

Sometimes we want to find similarities in our sitches, but perhaps that is what we want to see, and I often wonder if there are as many differences as there are similarities? I have no idea. That's why it would be nice to have more threads on piecing :-)

I know I should feel grateful, but at times I just feel resentful this ever happened. I don't think I could do this if he wasn't sorry :-(

Blu


“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
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Those phases has been described by Jim Conway and rewritten by Heart blessings who posted also on that site.
Here the link:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484776

I wil post on your thread later on, not today, I have a child with food poisoning right now.


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Thank you Skyhigh, I read over the stages again and settled in for the long ride. WH was withdrawn tonight and mostly just puttered around the house. Then he went into the spare room and laid down. I finished getting the kids ready for bed and put them to sleep. Then I went into the spare room and asked WH if everything was ok. He mumbled, "I guess so." I sat next to his bed and asked if there was anything I could do? He simply stayed quiet. I told him, "You can talk to me if it would help." He said he just wanted to rest so I withdrew and took a shower. Afterward I went into the room and let him know I would be doing Taco Tuesday with my female friends tomorrow. He was silent for a long time then said, "Okay."

I was feeling mentally fatigued so I decided to try and call some friends but the calls went to voicemail, they are probably out GAL lol. I then went over my weekly goals, gym 3 times a week, get the tax papers sorted, and get the bug folks out to treat the new house. Sometimes I feel like waiting on WH to catch up is the most frustrating thing of all. He destroyed this marriage but I am still doing all the heavy lifting while trying to build a new one. I am so so so angry. I wasn't sure why my anger re-surged so intensely but then did the math and realized this was around the time the affair had resumed. I was driving to work this morning and gripping my steering wheel very hard. I was replaying his promises to work on our marriage all while he was re-initiating contact with the OW. It really makes me feel utterly stupid that I trusted his words. I was home tending to our children while completing my residency and he was in another state dating some cheap piece of trash. Dating. Is that even possible with a married man? But yet I have to walk on eggshells right now while he makes his way through this damn tunnel, eh? It's so unfair. Right now I feel like I either have to accept the cheater back on his terms or deal with only half of my children's lives as he has made it clear he would seek 50% custody. My states is VERY 50% so he wouldn't even have to fight.

I yearn for the husband that I first met. I yearn for his gentle, humble and kind ways. I used to love learning new things from him as he would gently and systematically go over the material. However now he first criticizes if I say something wrong and then sort of mentally hammers his point home. It makes me not want to talk to him or ask any questions. I know I am vulnerable for leaving this marriage right now so I make sure to avoid male companionship and I try to fill my time with warm, supportive friends. I stay in the moment when spending time with my kids and smell their sweet, child smell. I pray daily that my WH will return to being a H and not someone that I feel I can never trust again. I come here and vent because I can't elsewhere. I sit here in my pjs while my heart literally skips around (will be getting an ablation soon) and marvel that this man could literally break my heart and I am the one reading everything, watching the videos and pondering endlessly. I will NOT sabotage my work however, I keep my anger, frustration and resentment to myself for now. I will sort them later, if they ever need sorting. My hope is WH will get through this mess and be the remorseful husband I WANT.


M 10yrs T 13yrs
BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce
April '17-Letting go
2018 D busted
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Sara - you got this. Your patience and dedication has paid off so far. Take that anger out at the gym. And get some good sleep tonight.


M:39 W:36 - D1:2 D2:6
11/19/16 BD1: ILYBNILWY, EA/PA
Dec/Jan: MC, pursuing, not DBing
1/11/17 BD2: W wants 1 month break
2/1/17: Divorce Remedy. Start DBing
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Originally Posted By: PsySara
Dating. Is that even possible with a married man? But yet I have to walk on eggshells right now while he makes his way through this damn tunnel, eh? It's so unfair. Right now I feel like I either have to accept the cheater back on his terms or deal with only half of my children's lives as he has made it clear he would seek 50% custody.

I totally understand this. Sometimes I can't believe the situation I'm in. My husband has a girlfriend. My husband has a partner he introduces to other people, as 'his partner'. But it's not me, his wife. It seems insane to me. It may be because our values make this situation seem unbelievable.

You can't do anything else but what you're doing, putting one foot in front of the other. You are fighting like a lioness for your family. Your WH doesn't deserve you one bit, so fight for your children, swallow that pain and take another step. You are doing everything you should be doing. Your reward will be this knowledge that you are doing everything humanely possible and I hope your children know one day how much you held it together for them.


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Quote:
You can't do anything else but what you're doing, putting one foot in front of the other. You are fighting like a lioness for your family. Your WH doesn't deserve you one bit, so fight for your children, swallow that pain and take another step. You are doing everything you should be doing. Your reward will be this knowledge that you are doing everything humanely possible and I hope your children know one day how much you held it together for them.


Wise, wise words.


There are moments in this life when you are so confident in the rightness of your actions, that not even for a second do you consider the option that you might be wrong.
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Originally Posted By: PsySara
Dating. Is that even possible with a married man? But yet I have to walk on eggshells right now while he makes his way through this damn tunnel, eh? It's so unfair. Right now I feel like I either have to accept the cheater back on his terms or deal with only half of my children's lives as he has made it clear he would seek 50% custody.

Originally Posted By: 2016sux
I totally understand this. Sometimes I can't believe the situation I'm in. My husband has a girlfriend. My husband has a partner he introduces to other people, as 'his partner'. But it's not me, his wife. It seems insane to me. It may be because our values make this situation seem unbelievable.


Its hard to do, but the best thing is to put it completely out of your mind. Don't think about it.

I have no clue how my wife introduces her OM. They work together and people there know they are together. It kills me. I even know that my wife introduced OM to her sister before Thanksgiving. How's that go? Hey sis, here's my boyfriend that my hubby doesn't know about. I'm hoping OM will be at thanksgiving next year and current hubby will no longer be in the picture.


M:39 W:36 - D1:2 D2:6
11/19/16 BD1: ILYBNILWY, EA/PA
Dec/Jan: MC, pursuing, not DBing
1/11/17 BD2: W wants 1 month break
2/1/17: Divorce Remedy. Start DBing
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It is insane because we have values....my W moved into her AP house while still married....we just got D this month...some people ask me how she can be living/being with someone else you are married??? It is perplexing.


W:42 M:48
T:9 yrs M:1yr
BD: Feb 2016
EA Confirmed: Feb 2016/PA July 2016
D: Feb 2017

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Quote:
have no clue how my wife introduces her OM. They work together and people there know they are together. It kills me. I even know that my wife introduced OM to her sister before Thanksgiving. How's that go? Hey sis, here's my boyfriend that my hubby doesn't know about. I'm hoping OM will be at thanksgiving next year and current hubby will no longer be in the picture.


Remember, blood is thicker than water. I would imagine that the SIL knew of the OM much, much longer than you are aware of. It is what it is, my friend. Not your monkey, not your circus.


There are moments in this life when you are so confident in the rightness of your actions, that not even for a second do you consider the option that you might be wrong.
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Just catching up, Sara. This is long battle you're fighting. Think in terms of months or maybe years. It's not an easy one. Why are you fighting it? For your kids? Because you still love him? Whatever your reasons, grab onto them and make them your priority.

When thoughts of what he's done start creeping in, force yourself to think of something else. Not to forget, but to try to start your own healing. You need to start there. Even if your H wanted to move on, he won't be able to if you don't.

Hope you have a better day


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Originally Posted By: Jeep74
Quote:
have no clue how my wife introduces her OM. They work together and people there know they are together. It kills me. I even know that my wife introduced OM to her sister before Thanksgiving. How's that go? Hey sis, here's my boyfriend that my hubby doesn't know about. I'm hoping OM will be at thanksgiving next year and current hubby will no longer be in the picture.


Remember, blood is thicker than water. I would imagine that the SIL knew of the OM much, much longer than you are aware of. It is what it is, my friend. Not your monkey, not your circus.


Jeep may be right. And most WS feel that once separated, dating is fine. Or should I say "openly dating". The families are hard to assess.

When my oldest brother was dating 2 women (not married to either) my siblings and I did not go along with pretending one of them didn't exist when he was with the other. We liked each woman, but it was insane for him to expect us to avoid some topics, etc.

It was very inconvenient for him...but we were not going to cover/lie b/c he couldn't deal. Both women loved him, and he was incredibly pathologically conflict avoidant.

So You never know what the family's are dealing with. When there are children, there is also the underlying fear of losing contact, as well.

Sara, I'm so sorry you are in this, and trying so hard. As for the custody issue, just b/c the court awards 50% custody does not mean your h will use it all up. Over time, most (not all) men won't keep up the half time parenting. They don't want to pay CS, but they often don't fully use the visitation, for whatever reasons.

SIGH....What you're describing sounds like a marriage that is Not meeting many of your needs. Understandably You're worried your h isn't in the marriage with both feet. It's a reasonable concern.

But you want what you once had. I get that. And I think it's possible.

I just think it takes a lot more work on your h's end than he's showing. And there may be a fear in him that "even if" he does ALL that work, you won't definitively love and see him the same way as you did...which is probably the way it is.

That's not your problem, assuming you are not throwing the A in his face or seething in front of him. Mostly it's incomprehensible stuff in him. Check Bluwave's thread out for how hard piecing is. I'm not sure your h could handle the truth of the damage he's done. And I'm not positively sure you should tell him.

(*I really am not sure. It's complicated).

Maybe you can list 3 things that it would take for you to know he's really in this. Then at least your main task would be solely on forgiveness. That is hard enough.

But you would be less haunted by the fear that if you turn the cheek, you'll get slapped again.

And maybe (??) down down the road, you can list 1-3 things that would make you choose another path. Just for clarity, so you'll know you have deal breakers you can and will enforce. And you'd know for sure that one way or the other, the limbo would end.

Just some thoughts.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

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Sara,

I admire your courage! Keep on fighting for the kids and the love you still have for your family. You are on the right path! No one can know how much time this will take to get back to a level of "normalcy". I feel you are headed in the right direction!

(((Sara)))


H-46 XW-38 T-7 M-6
S-9,8,8,6,4
S 11/30/15, I filed 12/8/15
EA 2/1/16 D dismissed 3/24/16
PA 3/18/16 confirmed 4/22/16
XW files for D 4/1/16 - D final 11/17/16
Finally moving forward...
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Oh my friends, thank you so much for your wise words and guidance. I still find myself building resentment about the feeling of rug sweeping going on. We went out of town last weekend, just the two of us, and spent most of the days touring the area and soaking in the atmosphere. We talked about shallow things, weather, work, news, etc., We ML twice and there was a...distance? between us. I am not feeling connected to WH. I feel like he is physically present but his mind is elsewhere. I fantasize about telling him I think I can't do this anymore and he frantically doing everything and anything to win me back. But the passion isn't there, it hasn't been since before the affair. It hasn't been there since shortly after we married. He started residency so soon after our wedding that it really affected our quality/bonding time.

I am happy at work, with my children, doing my GAL activities. But I am not happy with my marriage. I feel like we're just going through the motions and both desperately avoiding conflict so we can simply raise our children in a warm, kind household. I wish he had the balls to disagree without arguing. I wish he would be willing to jump off a mental cliff to fight for me. But he doesn't. He buys me jewelry, go shopping, plays outdoor sports, bowling and stuff. But there is no...connection. I really miss feeling important and loved by him. After the affair he decided he was never really in love with me because this affair showed him what "true love" was. Forget trying to argue limerence with him, he doesn't believe in it.

I keep reminding myself that this is a long game, that the dysfunction of our marriage took years to form and will take years to change. But I just don't see any desire for him to look within and take ownership of his screw ups. I'll keep my lips zipped but man is it hard! I sleep well with the ADs and my days are full of happiness. Is it selfish to want more from my M?


M 10yrs T 13yrs
BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce
April '17-Letting go
2018 D busted
DD8, DS6, DS3
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Just journaling....

Today WH asked me to bring the kids and join him and a co-worker couple for lunch. I picked up the kids, put on a nice outfit and makeup and drove over to his job. The other couple was a half hour late so WH was a little stressed but it smoothed over when we got to the restaurant. Afterward WH and I took the kids to the park and let them run around a bit. I still get this...lack of connection. We talk about frivolous things but never about us. We do things together but it feels like being with a stranger. I feel like I am going a little nuts.

I want us to heal from this disaster and start to move forward but I feel like we're in this limbo land or something. I looked up Retrouville in my area and there is one in June. I am thinking of approaching WH to think about signing up. Thoughts?


M 10yrs T 13yrs
BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce
April '17-Letting go
2018 D busted
DD8, DS6, DS3
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Dear Sara,

I could have written those words a few months ago when I was at the beginning of piecing. During his replay phase, I thought that if one day he was done with it and made his mind to stay, the piecing phase was going to be some kind of honeymoon. I was so wrong... That connection/love that I have been craving was nowhere in sight, I was astonished by his lack of love/passion and he was so touchy about his past actions, I had to be so careful. I was left again doing the heavy lifting.

Like you I started to have so huge waves of anger and resentment, I decided to stay detached as much as I could, some days I was good at it some days not so much, I took the habit to talk daily to a very good friend, she was my angel, those daily conversations helped me to vent, to sort out my feelings but also to evaluate what was going on.
I stayed engage in different GAL activities and focused on my kids.

At one point it seemed that instead of going better it went somehow worst, he became even more distant, then his behavior started to improve for the better and the connection between us too , he started to be less "touchy" and more interested in the kids and me.

That whole depression/withdrawal period lasted about 6 months, even if I was doing a pretty good job at being detached I remember telling myself at one point Ok if there is no change in 6 months I am going to file or ask him to move out because I could feel it was taking a toll on me.

That nasty MLC is such a long miserable journey for us the LBS. I really understand your frustration, no you are not selfish to want more.

It's going to take a while until the fantasy of the OW goes away fully but it will eventually, don't try to compete with that fantasy, it will just reinforce the idea he has of it. Just live your life, stay detached, keep those acts of kindness (it helps to smooth the relationship), Gal and keep venting here or to a good friend for your own sanity... Look back and ask yourself, is my life today better today than one year, 2 years or even 3 years ago? Sometimes we want more than we have and forget to appreciate what we have at that very moment. I am the first guilty of that. Remember, he chose you not her, he could have chose her but something stopped him... Stop thinking about what he said a few months ago, it was his thoughts then but his thoughts now might be different. Passion is great but it doesn't last, it's just a phase, deep love is about attachment/connection, something more quiet, I listened to a Ted talk about that and it made me reconsider the notion of what real love is.


Me 52+ WH 57+
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Originally Posted By: PsySara
I fantasize about telling him I think I can't do this anymore and he frantically doing everything and anything to win me back. But the passion isn't there, it hasn't been since before the affair. It hasn't been there since shortly after we married.

S- sorry you're struggling w/ this. I would too. What you're saying brings to mind what my XW wanted -- she wanted to feel intense pursuit, desire from me. You're very different than her but, nonetheless, it brings to mind what made HER feel good. Maybe some reflection about Perel's ideas might help? Some amount of distance is OK? Obviously you don't want too much, and his having acted upon his impulses doesn't help frame that gulf in intimacy very well.... Wish you a better week.


Me: 50, MLC/WW 45
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Apr 2016: BD2
Jan 2017: W filed
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Sara?


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Sara, I hope you are well! Update us soon!

Hugs,
Blu


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Hi friends! Sorry about being MIA, recently work had picked up and I am barely able to make time for self care.

WH and I had our first R talk a few nights ago. I kept it brief but again WH says he is conflicted and struggling to bond with me. I didn't REACT but rather validated and then told him, "I miss us. I miss what we had. I look forward to the future where we can heal and start to move forward. But right now the affair is a big elephant in the room and we can't move forward until we deal with it. I am not expecting you to grovel or self flagellate but I need to see some more action on your part." The entire time WH was staring at an Ipad and mumbling his replies. I brought up Retrouville and he basically mumbled he would do whatever I asked. So I backed off because dragging him to therapy or help had backfired in the past.

I weaned off the AD and the nightmares returned as well as the sleep disturbances. I wake around 3-5 am and can't sleep again. I am exhausted but I had gained 20 pounds on the AD, even with the gym, and was uncomfortable. I had gone to the IC who had tried to give us MC (and suggested I divorce WH in our session) but started to sense she wasn't really trying to help me. She would start the session late and end it early.

I continue to DB because it's the only thing that I can do. I think of calling my coach but after 11 sessions I already know what will be suggested. I can only move our R forward if WH gets motivated. I continue to GAL, enjoy my wonderful kids and work on a PMA. I also have worked very hard on controlling my anger and examining why I feel so angry, sometimes I think my reactions is disproportionate to the perceived offense. But my M is in limbo and sometimes I fantasize about filing D and moving on, finding someone who will move heaven and earth to show me love and loyalty. I just feel like plan B right now.


M 10yrs T 13yrs
BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce
April '17-Letting go
2018 D busted
DD8, DS6, DS3
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Sara,
You are only 2 months into piecing... I totally understand your anger and impatience but talking with him about R do sooo is not going to be a positive experience, you are only going to get hurt by his comments and attitude. The more you will push the more he will withdraw. Give him space and time.

Give yourself at least 6 months before any preliminary R conversations.
He is still in the depression/withdrawal phase. he is not ready to have any conversations because he is still processing his actions and his feelings and most probably he is on the fence. So any R or emotional conversations will push him away.

I know it's tough to be on that limbo position because it has been going on since a while, and somehow you are craving to have some stability in your life for you and your kids.

Hang there! Believe me I totally feel your frustration/ anger, I was almost ready to file at one point during that period, it got worst at one point and suddenly it improved with me doing nothing . It just happened, may be because I was do detached and fed up, with no more pressure or expectations from me, he was to see things in a more "peaceful " manner. It's when I was ready to give up when he changed... sometimes less is better.

Big hug,


Me 52+ WH 57+
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Good IC's are hard to find, no?

Sorry to hear what's going on ...

I hope you can at least solve the sleep problem....


Me: 50, MLC/WW 45
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Apr 2016: BD2
Jan 2017: W filed
Feb 2017: D final
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I have had success with Zoloft and not gaining weight. Others had caused me to gain weight. As I am sure you know, often the weight gain comes from feeling better and being able to eat better. I think your mental health and sleep are probably most important right now. Exercise is 20%. What you eat is 80%. Perhaps be more mindful of that. But you need to be rested and without nightmares to keep going.

You do what you can, but I still feel like you feel like if just do this, or that, you can get him to feel differently. DB is great, but we can be the best DB'ers in the world, but if he isn't really in that place, YOU cannot put him there. He needs ot deal with his own isssues and depression, and he will only do that if and when he is ready.

Take care of yourself, ok?

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I took Wellbutrin XL, I didn't gain any weight.
The primary goal of DB is for you to feel better and help you to gain healthy mechanisms to deal with the situation.
Keep venting, if your IC is not the right one, may be just find a friend willing to listen to you a few days a week...

Piecing takes months or even a few years. Like you I wanted to speed that process and each time I tried, it was a mistake. Live your life in the present, enjoy the moments you can have with him and your kids. Love is based on attachment not passion, it's a step by step process too.

Keep those acts of kindness and keep your anger under control, anger is destructive and it doesn't show you under your best. They liked OW because most of the time they were sweet and stroking their egos, I know it was a fantasy relationship but it felt real for them, it brought them pleasure and a positive outlook about themselves. During piecing, they are still on the fence and missing those feelings. I noticed every time I "acted" as OW he was responding in a positive manner, I know it [censored], but at least he was happy and I could feel him moving closer. Believe me some days it was tough to act like that, but I had my eyes on the bigger picture.

Big hugs


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So a little update; WH's cousin has been staying a few weeks and will be heading home in a week. She has been a vital alliance to the marriage and she knows what happened. My WH considers her a very close friend as well as his cousin. Last night WH and I had a quickie and then I went to bed. Later I came out to get a glass of water and overheard a convo between them.

WH was talking about the OW and how much it hurt when she broke off the affair. He said, "I was willing to give 100% of myself if she would have just married me and she didn't. So I think it's a mistake to give so much of yourself to anyone." I could hear his cousin gently ask him about me and the marriage. Basically WH said he felt I had abandonment issues and wouldn't let him leave. He said he was unable to "feign" emotion for me and he didn't feel for me what he felt for OW. I felt my blood drain to my feet. He went on to also say that I was "too much" in love with him and he felt I was afraid no one would want me. He also said he felt okay if we broke apart because he knew he'd be able to get another woman. She asked him about the fact that we share a home, marriage, children and a bed. He mumbled something about sleeping on the floor (which he has done on and off) and that we were basically room mates. Keep in mind we had just ML about an hour ago.

There was more but that was the jist of it. I texted WH that I needed to talk with him tonight after the kids were in bed, that I had overheard the convoersation last night. He simply replied, "Okay :)" The smiley threw me...I guess he is hunky dory with the fact I overheard all that. I am gutted, truly I am. I think it's time for me to give up and admit this marriage is not salvageable. WH has zero respect for me and I am apparently a piece of @sss to him. He even told her how much I had changed for the better but he couldn't "love" me, just care for me.

So the kids have been bathed and I will put them to bed soon. Part of me is relieved, I am tired of waiting for WH to decide if I am worthy enough. I still see no real remorse and very little effort from him, and I see no real change in him.


M 10yrs T 13yrs
BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce
April '17-Letting go
2018 D busted
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I have no words. Only you know what's best for you.
Whatever is your decision today, tomorrow or in a few months, I am with you.

((((hugs))))


Me 52+ WH 57+
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Me too. What she said. Remember to celebrate tomorrow- APRIL FOOL'S DAY- dedicated to all the FOOLS who are leaving us- but we will rise strong and true, better people, and leaving behind the ones who don't deserve us. We must all hang in there.


M-60 H-51
M-14 years
BD 12/26/16
S 1/1/17

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I'm so sorry to hear this. Tragic.

But, before you burn your bridges ... maybe you should consider the advice that you shouldn't believe anything WS's say, and only half of what they do.

I don't know. You've been grinding away at this a very long time, so you know what's best.

I want you to find a road back to happiness.

Originally Posted By: PsySara
WH said he felt I had abandonment issues and wouldn't let him leave.

What does he mean by this? Do you actually have some power to keep him?


Me: 50, MLC/WW 45
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Feb 2017: D final
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Sara ((((big hugs)))) what an awful conversation to overhear. I can imagine how that must have felt and I'm so sorry.

Whether any of us choose to stand for our marriage in the face of such difficult circumstances is up to each and every one of us. However, I think the most important thing is boundaries, emotional safety and wellbeing.

You have been trying so hard to re-attract your H when he is clearly still infatuated (I'm not going to call that love) with OW.

At this point? You may want to call him right out on all of that and knock his skewed thinking right on the head.

Living like this isn't working for me H, so you'd better find another place
I'm not going to ML to you and overhear you declaring love for someone else an hour later - that doesn't work for me
I don't want our M to end, but I'm not willing to live like this (and I'll deal with my own fears thank you very much.)

I think you have been putting yourself secondary and suppressing and tolerating in the hope your M can be saved. It still may be if you want it to. However, I think it is time to clearly let your H know that if he wants to be elsewhere and not with you - he'd best get to it because you have a good life to live...

Believe me Sara, you are going to be ultimately fine either way and life will be much more peaceful if you lay down and maintain suitable boundaries for yourself.

Take care Sweetie xx


T 13 M 7
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SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
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Sara my lovely - one last question from me to ask yourself...

At what point does your H's behaviour become so disrespectful and inappropriate that the steel trap door comes thumping down?

I'm reminded of a couple of situations - one, where my XH booked a flight to visit OW (and I told him if he decided to go, I would not be 'at home' when he got back. He did go and I left as a result.) Caliguy's - where he and his W were piecing when he found she had texted explicit photos to OM.

In both situations the door came thumping straight down. No big discussions or arguments, no gas lighting. For me, I knew (with every fibre of my being) that we could not live together if he was behaving in this way.

At what point might you come to feel the same. And what part is fear (of abandonment?) playing for you? From all that you post, it does sound as though your H thinks he can get away with poor behaviour (illustrated by the smiley emoticon?) Meanwhile, you are doing your best to attract him back by planning nice things, buying nice nighties and buying him big presents. As though he and living with him in this way is some kind of prize?

Sorry, that was more than one question and I am feeling cross and upset on your behalf this morning - so that's mine to own too - but I hope there is something of help in all of this for you - truly I don't want to add to your pain...

Xx


T 13 M 7
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BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

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I'm solo parenting for now so I will come back to respond to individual comments and questions later.

Last night WH came home and help put the kids to bed, ate dinner and then approached me to have our talk. I am paraphrasing but will try to be precise for clarity's sake.

Me: "I overheard your conversation with your cousin last night and was very hurt. We had ML about an hour before so you can imagine how I felt to be referred to as a "room mate" and to heard you compare your Affair break up with the devastation your cousin is experiencing after her fiance' broke up with her. I do not have abandonment issues and trust me, I could go out tonight and find a guy. I do not need you, I simply would like it if we could salvage our marriage. But it is clear to me that you feel I am desperate and will accept anything as long as you stay with me. Let me disabuse you of this, I have absolutely no problem if you walked out that door tonight and never walked back in. I encourage you to do so if you want to, I will not stop you."

WH looked very embarrassed and asked if he could clarify what I overheard and I gave him the floor. It was a long talk so I will bullet point the important parts:

-WH was trying to convince his cousin that she could move on and eventually the pain of separation would dissipate. He said he knows the Affair is not real love but the pain he felt after the break up was very real to him.

-He said he felt giving yourself 100% outside the marriage was a big mistake he made. He feels you should only give 100% in the marriage.

-He told his cousin that he treats me like a room mate sometimes and that it is very unfair to me. He says I have become the literal fantasy woman he always wanted and yet he has no idea why he can't "fall" for me

-He said he is starting to have moments where he misses me and feels warmth and "something" when he thinks of me. But he will not feign emotions as he feels it is dishonest and he only wants me to get the authentic behavior from him.

-He knows this marriage is extremely lopsided and I am doing the lion's share of the work. He says he feels guilty but is unsure how to do the work when the motivation is not there. (I bit my tongue a lot at this point)

-He says he would be the biggest loser in the world if he lost me but he would never stop from leaving as I deserve to move on if he cannot/will not show remorse.

-He still is unable to show remorse as he feels unsure of what to do. He says he would never cheat again because I am "nice" now. At this point I cut in, I told him that my behavior should not EVER be an excuse to cheat or remain faithful. He immediately corrected himself and said I was right, that he was using justifications for his infidelity. I also told him he still had poor boundaries and he seemed taken aback. He said he would continue to work on that.

Anyways, those are the highlights. He asked if he could hug me as he said he felt horrible that he hurt me so bad. I let him hug me and told him that we REALLY needed to communicate more so I know what's up and down between us. He agreed and again told me how sorry he was that he hurt me so badly.

I am proud of myself, I did not REACT but rather listened and validated, drew proper boundaries and showed WH he could trust me with his feelings and thoughts. I did not argue or try to convince him of my worth. Furthermore he knows I will nto tolerate being taken for granted and that I am perfectly willing to leave this M if he continues to barely pull his weight.


M 10yrs T 13yrs
BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce
April '17-Letting go
2018 D busted
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Wow. Seems like a giant step forward in understanding each other.

Originally Posted By: PsySara
he has no idea why he can't "fall" for me


What's his definition of "falling" for you?


Me: 50, MLC/WW 45
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Apr 2016: BD2
Jan 2017: W filed
Feb 2017: D final
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He is clearly on the fence.

The conversation you had with him might make him reflect on his "situation", since he refused to see an IC. My hope is that forced him somehow to verbalize and articulate his thoughts.

Take good care of you,


Me 52+ WH 57+
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Dear Sara,

Just keep in mind that MLC is a harsh journey, the MLCer is highly conflicted even during the piecing phase, so just let him be with his thoughts and live your life. Give him space and fill your space with "happy" time.

In life, nothing is set in stone, so stop projecting yourself "with him" in the future, enjoy each day, your kids, and your friends. At one point I decided to stop "building" a future with him in my mind even when he was talking about OUR RETIREMENT, I just started to live my life fully each day and enjoy the company of "positive people". I showed him that I could LIVE and be HAPPY with him but also without him, I planned trips and made work decisions based on Me only and the kids, like your husband he used to tell me that I was too dependent on him... I showed him by my actions that his thoughts were wrong, and if I decided to stay it's because I cared but I could live and thrive without him. It took months for him to realize that but now he is becoming aware that I can leave him if I want to. Also my actions had a positive influence on my teenage kids, they learned how to detach, be themselves and sail a few storms. When they have issues they come to me not him.
Hang there,

HUGS


Me 52+ WH 57+
Married 20 +
Piecing since 2016 (ready to give up...)
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WH and I had an argument on Friday before going to WDW. He spent the weekend stonewalling me and refusing to speak to me the entire time. Last night he asked for a divorce again. I'm so tired. I will stop DB'ing and just try to gather up the shattered bits of me again. He told me he doesn't like me, nothing about me. He feels more at peace away from me and wants me to stay away from him forever. At this point I think I believe him. I slept about 1.5 hours last night and am not in a good place mentally. I am so tired.


M 10yrs T 13yrs
BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce
April '17-Letting go
2018 D busted
DD8, DS6, DS3
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It reminded me of a big fight I had with H during piecing, the next day, he told me "I am done, I just cannot stand you anymore, I will be moving out in 4 months", then he just shut off (stonewalling), I was stunned and discouraged but I decided not to argue (somehow I had enough too and if he wanted to move on, fine) and I detached even more, I just started to live as if he was not here anymore. Three weeks later I asked him "Can you tell me exactly when will you be moving out so I can prepare the kids and take some decisions?", he looked at me and answered "What are you talking about?", he said he didn't remember saying that... I don't know if he forgot or he just realized that I took his decision seriously and I was ready to let him go and move on...

During piecing, they are very "touchy", I think I mentioned that several times, so any fights or R talks are going to push them away right away.

During piecing, staying detached is a MUST, during that period everything can happen. They are on the fence, they are on it for several months. It's also a period where the best is to do NOTHING most of the time, beside listening, validating and setting boundaries. Let him watch you move on and be happy!

Piecing is tough, it's a roller coaster, forget about any preconceived ideas you might have, at the beginning is more a cease fire between 2 people ready to jump at each other throat at the slightest provocation than a Honeymoon.

Just focused on YOURSELF and the KIDS, forget about him and his moody/crazy behavior. Make plans (work, vacations, kids, home) according to YOU and the KIDs. You need to stop being the pursuer, read the thread on it.

You cannot change him, he has to figure out by himself.

Take something to help you to sleep! You need to be able to function.
I feel your pain, I went through that, I remember that excruciating pain and despair.

Don't let your life being in hold because of him! Your worth/life shouldn't be determined by how his mood of the day is. Stop making decisions based on him, become selfish for your own sake.

Big hugs,


Me 52+ WH 57+
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Sky,
You are always the voice of reason. I need to post an update but please know that I appreciate your wisdom and constant kindness.

Today at work I was trying to stay focused with only two hours of sleep and slogging through my day. After lunch I was walking down the hall when I started having chest pain and then got very dizzy and passed out. This resulted in an ambulance ride to the hospital and now I am in telemetry. While in the ambulance I felt pressure and pain as well as jaw pain which was relieved with sublingual nitroglycerin. I was very frightened at the time thinking maybe I was having an MI.

My EKG is showing anomalies and they are having me monitored right now. WH showed up and was kind and gentle. He went out of his way to get me dinner and then made sure to hang a get-well banner my coworkers made for me. Before he left he gave an awkward side hug. Man, am I confused.

Physically I am tapped out and emotionally I am drained. I am letting go of the rope and if WH wants to leave, there's the door. I need to let go of the fantasy of an intact family to raise my children. In the end WH may not have the tools or the desire to make himself a better person. I need to turn inward and heal my body and my heart...both literally and figuratively. This man literally has broken my heart and still cannot mount the actions required to show remorse and help me heal. I need to accept that and come to the realization that I may walk the rest of my life journey alone. I never wanted this but I think it's time to stop fighting so hard. I've done every single thing possible to save this marriage and have paid my dues in life expectancy.

I am blessed though, the outpouring of love and kindness from my friends, my cousin and coworkers has been amazing. I have at least 5 people I could call this minute and they would come if I needed them. I am filled with gratitude and humbleness experiencing their compassion. I know no matter what WH does or says about "lack" of good qualities that I only have to look at how my friends surrounded me with their love to know it's not true. This has been an eye opening experience.


M 10yrs T 13yrs
BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce
April '17-Letting go
2018 D busted
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OH SARA, PLEASE BE WELL!!! This update from you is upsetting. You are one of the strongest women I know, and I don't even have any idea what you look like on the outside, but on the inside, you are the real deal, and if I know that just from cyberspace, then your cousin, co-workers, and friends know that first hand. You hang in there, get well physically and emotionally, and for God's sake keep posting, so we can all breathe a little easier on your behalf. We love you and totally have your back. (And if this forum weren't so secretive/anonymous/ (which I know is a good thing, just sayin') any one or all of us (oh God, can you imagine the parking lot???) would be there to drive you home. I hope this brought a smile to your face. ((((( SARA ))))))


M-60 H-51
M-14 years
BD 12/26/16
S 1/1/17

"First the pain, then the rising."
Glennon Doyle Melton

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You're in my thoughts


Me: 50, MLC/WW 45
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Apr 2016: BD2
Jan 2017: W filed
Feb 2017: D final
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Still in telemetry waiting to see the cardiologist. So far blood tests show no heart attack which is a HUGE relief. I think maybe the ectopic arrhythmias are the culprit. That is handled with cardiac ablation so not too invasive and does not require a lengthly recovery. I am still waiting to hear from cardio so we can see what's what and move forward.

My WH's cousin has been staying with us for a few weeks on vacation and knows what happened. She is a huge allie of the marriage and said she is appalled at WH's behavior. She confronted him last night about his actions this weekend and how he still appears to not give a crap about his wife. It erupted into an argument and she was texted me last night to not trust my WH's behavior in the hospital, that is likely not genuine. She said he basically blames me for everything and was behaving as if he was not taking my hospitalization seriously. He told my boss he would be at the hospital in 15 minutes but showed up over an hour later. His cousin informed me he was walking around the house sighing like he was put out. He took time to feed the cats, walking around the house doing all and sundry.

Last night she told him he was behaving in an atrocious manner and he babbled on about how he doesn't even like my company, doesn't really love me, no motivation to win me back, etc., He also said I argue too much and am verbally abusive with him. Hmmmm...that sounds a lot like projection. I am not sure what to do at this point. Part of me thinks I need to kick him out so I can be away from him. It is clear now that he does not care about my health or even my life. I definitely will not turn to him for support or help.


M 10yrs T 13yrs
BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce
April '17-Letting go
2018 D busted
DD8, DS6, DS3
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The cardiology PA just came and said they may try to squeeze in my ablation tomorrow but they have to check the schedule. I have a lot of time no my hands right now so I will play catch up to you amazing folks.

Leahsue,
Your post brought a big smile to my face, the imagery you painted was touching and soothed my bruised heart. It's funny to feel so close to people who you've never "spoken" to or seen but I feel these bonds are real.

ForGump,
I have asked my WH in the past what he means by "falling" for me and he really struggles. He feels it should just happen, that there shouldn't be any real work but rather its about feelings not thought. The jaded part of myself feels he is describing limerence and has not real idea of deep, solid, true love. He seems stuck at the emotional level of a child when it comes to relationships.

Sotto,
I definitely need to go back to the drawing board and re-think my strategy. I have to let go of the rope and stop waiting on WH to catch up. This experience has been incredibly eye opening about how broken WH is and how I can't be the one to glue him back together. I need to accept that he may never reach out for the tools to fix his character disorder. I have to work harder on the relationships that deserve my focus and time. And I really need to try and be more mindful of the now with my children. My parenting is definitely not 100% since the start of this roller coaster. While the door hasn't thumped down it is definitely closing. Each day WH kills a little more of my love for him.

Sky,
I have tried the going dark/dim thing and when WH is more approachable he said he felt I was being mean and cold. I scheduled trips to my moms with the kids and he complained he felt I was purposely taking his time away with them. (I would stay at my moms until evening and he would be home for a few hours from work. He would become more cold and hostile to me in the house. In the past WH told me to hug him even if he said no, this was a disaster the first time I implemented it (WH acted as he were going to be violent) so I stopped doing that. When WH opens up (rarely) I get such contradictory ideas from him, he says he wants me to force love on him and later he says he wants to never be in my presence. He appears to not even know what he wants or thinks. I feel like I've DB my heart out and WH continues to keep our marriage in limbo. The few days/minutes I see his true self is overshadowed by the huge gaps of time he treats me awful. This can't be good for our kids to see. In the end I may have to be the one to drop the hammer and file. Living like this has cost a huge price in my mental and physical health.


M 10yrs T 13yrs
BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce
April '17-Letting go
2018 D busted
DD8, DS6, DS3
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Sara,

I just caught up with your situation, I am so sorry for you. I hope you can feel better soon. I am boiling of rage right now at what your WH said and did yesterday.
I do agree with WH's cousin about not trusting him.

He has to figure out what he wants, and right now he went back into full limbo. Don't let him take you back onto that destructive path. Free yourself from the power he has on you. You tried everything and beyond what you could do.

I agree with you that journey affects our parenting, my kids were deeply affected by it. It's not easy to be emotional available for them when we are so frustrated and such in pain. Since we are also the only sane parent, sometimes we are facing tough decisions to protect them. Only you know what's the best for you and your kids, and may be you need to be in a peaceful home without being surrounded by constant stressors to restore not only your emotional well being but also your body. We forget sometimes how powerful the mind is, and how it can affect the body. I was just listening to a podcast this morning about that subject while driving.

You are a great woman and the fact that you are surrounded by several friends willing to step in to help you in that difficult time shows how a loving person you are.

Take that time you have right now, to make a decision, sometimes God send us signs and we are too busy to see them.

One step at a time...

You are in my thoughts. I wish I could hug you in person. He doesn't know what he is missing but we know what he is missing.


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Thank you so much Skyhigh. I wish we could meet in real life so we could exchange uncensored ideas, lol!

So the hits sjust keep on coming. My cardiologist was very concerned by what he found on the EKG and even though he has no available appointments until June, he is cancelling a clinic day to do the ablation. He says he will have the interventional cardiologist there as well as he says there is a small risk they may need to placec a pacemaker. I almost crapped my pants when he said that.

Last night WH was friendly and chatty with both his cousin and myself. But by bedtime he was distant and aloof with me. I simply fell into bed exhausted so I could be rested for work today. I came into a huge census and a lot of mess I had to clean up from the doctrines who were covering my patients. In the meantime I have a chest CT scheduled tomorrow after work and then they made the appointment for the ablation for next Tuesday.

I texted WH the updates but didn't hear back until he was driving home. He told me he was working next Tuesday and wasn't sure he could get the day off. Are you sh*tting me?! HE said he had texted some other doctors but some of them couldn't switch. Why can't he simply tell his supervisor that he has to take off because his WIFE is getting a procedure done on her f*cking heart?! My cousin will be out of town on a business trip so I can't ask him. I am scared because my first semester of medical school my aunt underwent a cardiac cath, it was supposed to be an simple outpatient procedure. She died on the table.

Meanwhile WH is acting like ladeedah, no big deal. How did I pick this guy to be the father of my children? How could I have had such horrible judgement? I would give a kidney and a lung to turn back time and redo things. I looked up law in Florida and it's a 50/50 custody default state unless there is abuse or abandonment. So if I go for divorce I lose 50% of my children's childhoods. I feel hopeless and despondent. Forgive me my friends, I need to wallow ni a little self pity for now.


M 10yrs T 13yrs
BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce
April '17-Letting go
2018 D busted
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Correction, ablation is next Thursday, not Tuesday.


M 10yrs T 13yrs
BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce
April '17-Letting go
2018 D busted
DD8, DS6, DS3
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(((Sara))), I don't have any words of wisdom but I just wanted to tell you I am thinking of you keeping everything crossed for your procedure next Thursday.

Your H still seems to be doing a lot of flip flopping but more flipping than flopping at the moment. Steer well away. Right now you have to take care of you because you have small people who need their mama to be well.

Sending you lots of hugs.


Me - 47
H - 45
D-16
M - 6 years
Separated - May 16

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So sorry for the ordeal you are going through right now. Please vent as much as you want, don't keep your frustration and anger inside, also it might help you to sort out a few things.

I totally understand your need to express your pain and sorrow.

Do you really think in case of a divorce, he would like to have 50% of custody and he can handle 3 kids on his own during a few days in a row without any help?

When he was talking about wanting a divorce, what was his position in regard of the children?


Me 52+ WH 57+
Married 20 +
Piecing since 2016 (ready to give up...)
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Oh Sara!!! (((Sara)))

I am so sorry to read this. So you went into a rapid Afib with RVR and became hypotensive? How terrifying! I am glad you are getting the ablation; it's fairly noninvasive and even if it doesn't work initially, you still have more options! I am glad that you have an interventional cardiologist! I would personally require that, high risk or not. So I work in ICU & CVICU (very sick population) and any cath lab pt not ready to go to tele comes to us. I personally have never seen a serious complication from an ablation. I am assuming your aunt went into the cath lab for other reasons and was most likely in cardiogenic shock? So please, please don't let that add to your fears! That's a very different circumstance.

In terms of your WH? Honestly, Sara, I could give two chits about that man right now! I care about you, your health, and how you can get to a place where you have less stress and you feel safe and loved. You deserve that. Your children deserve a mother who feels cherished and valued! He obviously has a lot of work to do on himself and Is being a selfish baby. I feel sorry for him in another way-- I hope he can get it together before you lose your last ounce of respect for him. This will be his loss! And I just know you will come out stronger some day soon.

I can appreciate skyhigh and how much you can relate to her and her sitch. I do! Just keep in mind that there are as many differences as there are similarities in our sitches. My H never was as you two described. I can't relate to any of that and I can't imagine it. That must be so hard to keep your motivation and patience when their focus is not in your and genuine recon. It's almost a Herculean effort to forgive and respect them when the selfishness continues. How can you ask yourself to do that?

Please just take care of your heart first. Always. You need that to live and so do your children. They need you strong and healthy.

XOXO
Blu


“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
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S-

What Blu and others said: just get better first.


Me: 50, MLC/WW 45
Young kids
Nov 2015: BD1
Apr 2016: BD2
Jan 2017: W filed
Feb 2017: D final
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Coly,
I'm trying to steer clear but it is a challenge when I need him to be my transportation to my cardiac ablation. But otherwise some kind of switch has been thrown and I find myself picturing a future without him. I will be fine. I am independently financially sound, I already bought a house and will be moving the kids there after they complete this school year, and I am already mentally splitting assets.

Skyhigh,
WH has been adamant that he would fight for 50/50 custody. Would he be as on top of things, the mundane parts of parenting? Most likely not but they would not be physically neglected or be abused. My main concern is in the future when they start to discern how undependable he is, then the fire will reign down and my children will likely face stone walling from him. I just wish I could run interference but I don't see how I can.

BluWave,
I always appreciate your comments and suggestions. The last few days I have just felt done. WH has been cordial and also distant and I think my give a fock meter just broke. I just feel there is nothing salvageable here. I did go over the last year and a half and am sooooo lucky that I managed to move the kids to my home state before deciding one way or the other. Now if we divorce he can't take them out of state. If he wants to move then he will simply screw himself out of his side of custody. Now when he is at work and I am home I feel relief and peace. I am starting to feel strong. I am sad that I will likely raise my kids in a less than ideal situation but I know I have exhausted every option.

ForGump,
I'm working on it.

So Friday I texted WH "I need to know if your supervisor will give you the 20th off, if not then I need to make my plan B." There was not response until about 4 hours later when he replied, "I got the 20-21 off." I simply thanked him. His cousin has been a lot of help with the kids. I had to have a chest CT done yesterday and she took over the evening from the nanny. Wh came home around 7:30 and basically left his cousin to do all the work with the kids. By the time I got home (after 8) the two older kids were in bed and the baby was ready to be put to bed. WH looked at me and said, "You took a long time getting home." I told him I had to wait for the results from the CT came before they would let me drive home. Later his cousin told me he was asking her repeatedly if I had texted her when I was coming home. This is so stupid, why can't he just text me and ask? It's just more of his stone walling bullsh*t. Today I took his cousin to the airport and said a tearful goodbye. She has been a huge support to me and also has helped a lot with the kids.

WH only addressed me this morning to tell me when he's coming home today. Part of me wished he wouldn't come home at all. How's that for a 180? I used to watch the clock and check his location on the Friendfinder app constantly, now I wish he'd just move out already.


M 10yrs T 13yrs
BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce
April '17-Letting go
2018 D busted
DD8, DS6, DS3
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Oh Sara,

I will continue to pray for you and your children. Everyone has a limit and only you can decide the path you will take. Although losing an S is painful, it may be the right path. We cannot control the bad behavior. Focus on your health and needs and the needs of your children. I wish somehow we could all help absorb the pain and have it magically go away. (((Sara)))


H-46 XW-38 T-7 M-6
S-9,8,8,6,4
S 11/30/15, I filed 12/8/15
EA 2/1/16 D dismissed 3/24/16
PA 3/18/16 confirmed 4/22/16
XW files for D 4/1/16 - D final 11/17/16
Finally moving forward...
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Thank you J, I read up a little on your situation and am taking a leaf from your book. If you can single handedly take care of 5 small sons then I should be able to manage just three.

Today I took the kids over to my moms so they could hunt for eggs. My family doesn't celebrate Easter but they do some of the kid stuff. I dressed up very special (pretty sun dress and high heels) just to feel better. The ego takes quite the bruising when one's spouse constantly rejects them. I decided to treat myself to some new clothes and let my mom have the kids for about an hour. Meanwhile WH tests me asking when I plan on being home so he can see the kids. (He was at work until about 4) I texted back around 5. I came home around 5 and the boys had fallen asleep in their carseats so I decided to surf the net on my phone. WH pulled up shortly after and the boys woke. When I got the kids out of the van WH commented on my clothing and especially my heels. "You're dressed up nice. When did you get those shoes?" I had those shoes since before we married and told him so.

Afterward I continued with the regular evening, fed the kids, bathed them and got them to bed. WH played Mindcraft with the older kids until their bedtime. He and I are cordial to each other and I catch him looking at me for extended times. Can I be honest and say I don't really care? I continue to plan the separation this summer. I figure I can dovetail the move into my new house and WH can either stay in the rental or find an apartment. I don't think he realizes where I am at mentally. He probably thinks the dressing up and being all comfortable with him (we are able to spend considerable time in the same room without stressing) means I am giving it a go again. If so, he could not be more wrong. I have sacrificed too much waiting for WH to get his head out of his @ss.


M 10yrs T 13yrs
BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce
April '17-Letting go
2018 D busted
DD8, DS6, DS3
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Wh and I continue to be cordial to each other but aloof. Tomorrow is my birthday and he asked me if I had plans, I responded no. He then asked if I wanted to do anything special and I told him I just wanted to rest. My heart has been causing me more and more fatigue, the racing makes me feel like I am constantly running on a treadmill even while sitting down.

I did come home and make a pot roast in the pressure cooker with potatoes and carrots. I ate at the table with m little ones and then did the regular bath/bedtimes routine. WH just sat with them and played some mindcraft, napped on the couch and lazed about. He did eventually eat some of the dinner I made. Here I sit on the love seat and there he sits on the couch, no talking or anything, just this weird silence. Unlike before I don't feel on edge or anxious. I have decided to let go of him and now seriously think I may not want him back. We've always had a lopsided distribution of household/child rearing, mix this with his remorseless infidelity and I don't see benefits of keeping him around. He has not read one book, gone willingly to on IC or done any true introspection about his cheating. He has no desire to be a better man and recover from his narcissism. Multiple people have approached him about the horrible actions he has taken and his response is to blame shift and turn on the person trying to help him. His closest relatives are mystified, the counselors say he is a lost cause and my closest friends are begging me to leave his toxic presence.

Tonight my DD6 refused to hold my hand while I took her to bed because I told her she could not play anymore mindcraft. I told her this hurt my feelings and WH said to her,"Be nice to mommy." My thought was she is starting to pick up hurtful behavior from WH and he still can't view himself.


M 10yrs T 13yrs
BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce
April '17-Letting go
2018 D busted
DD8, DS6, DS3
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PsySara

First of all – a VERY HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

I’ve been watching from afar but not posting because have been unsure of what to say, but I want to let you know I’ve thought about you and your sitch every single day.

In a way, we are now both in the same sitch, but have taken different routes to it. My arrival at this place has not been out of choice per se – where you have fought on, I had come to a dead end because my WH absolutely refused to engage.

I want to say I understand the need to move, to act, to do SOMETHING – I too am an April baby and I think we have a few similarities personality wise. Because my WH froze me out so early, I necessarily reached this point where I’ve come to see inaction as a sort of course of action. It’s the LRT really.

I don’t think you should file for divorce, not at all. At the moment my DS is away with WH – we’ve had to split the Easter holidays. It’s horrible without him. I want to spend every night under the same roof with my DS.

I think you should just table the whole MR at the moment. Take it easy, especially with your health issues. Don’t do anything. If you don’t want to get divorced because of the implications it will have for your children, DON’T. There’s no law that says just because your marriage isn’t being actively worked on you have to actively dismantle it. Just coast. If your WH wants a divorce, let him handle it. That’s the tack I’ve taken with my WH.

I had a wobble a week ago because I realized that my window for filing for divorce based on adultery closes at the end of the month. I spoke to my father who had this sage advice to offer: don’t file for divorce if it’s not something you actively want, let WH do it, because when the children are older they will realize that you did absolutely nothing to destroy the marriage and their family and it was 100% all WH. Your hands and your conscience will be clean and you will have peace of mind for the rest of your life. I think it’s more probable that I would regret divorcing in pain and anger, rather than being divorced by a WH who is acting in a totally despicable way – the negative feelings associated with the latter situation are linked to ego and a desire to reject rather than be rejected, which has roots in vindictiveness.

My faith has developed and grown through this process and acts as a guide for how to conduct myself in these situations. Which is to forgive and release – detachment really. Interestingly, forgiveness does not equate to reconciliation – you can forgive but choose not to reconcile.

The guidance I’ve been receiving from Christian quarters is to let go and let God deal with WH. There’s a line from a book I’ve been reading by a Christian author, which does make the point that if WH were to re-engage in the M, it has to be out of his will, not because he was lured back into it. He should re-enter the marriage as he did the first time around – totally out of his own volition. You can’t make him to stay in the marriage anymore than you could have manipulated him to marry you in the first place. You still work on GAL, but now entirely and only for yourself – whether it results in WH being attracted back is incidental.

I recognize too well your previous description about how focused you were on WH’s movements, because I felt like that too – what has happened may have been necessary to jolt you into true detachment – it certainly sounds like you’ve reached it now.

A word of warning from someone who’s been there – it comes and goes. The first time I felt true detachment I was elated, thinking I had reached healing. But another interaction with WH destabilized me. Yesterday I had a terrible day with missing DS and WH and loving them so much I spent most of it crying on the floor. They don’t call it a roller coaster for nothing frown


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Out of curiousity, does Islam have similar guidance about approaching our kinds of sitches? I asked a Muslim friend who is quite observant but she said she wasn't aware of a similar 'standing' position.


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Happy Birthday Dear Sara!
I am an April baby too....
Will come back to write later on, I have to run.


Me 52+ WH 57+
Married 20 +
Piecing since 2016 (ready to give up...)
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Sara:

Happy Belated Birthday to you. I wanted to wish you a speedy recovery and I hope that you find yourself physically recovered soon.

You are a wonderful person and I can't thank you enough for the support you have provided to myself and so many others.

Take care.

Bigybiz


M:50
W:53
MR:20
D:21
S:17
S:11
BD-Sept 2015
Suspected PA Sept 2015-Confronted W & OM Dec 2015
Actually EA
In house Sep:Jan/16-May 2016
W moved out:May 22 2016
OM-Intro Oct/17-On scene July/Aug 2017
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Sara,

Happy birthday! I'm so sorry that it's such low times for you, healthwise and relationship-wise. I haven't read here for a while and was very sad to see that the good R you had for a while, is no more.

My birthday was yesterday. My S day was 1 week before that (a year ago). This year, I celebrated with a new 'family' and had a great time. I didn't even think about the past or experienced any difficult feelings. You will be okay.

Take care of yourself and your heart!


M 16 yrs, WH62, P54
3 adult blended kids
EA 11/13, BD1 6/14
PA fall 14, BD2 2/15
Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15
Separated 4/16
WH moved OW in 5/16
Divorced 6/15/17
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Happy birthday! I hope this year brings health and happiness


Me: 50, MLC/WW 45
Young kids
Nov 2015: BD1
Apr 2016: BD2
Jan 2017: W filed
Feb 2017: D final
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You are in my thoughts for tomorrow.

Sorry for the delay, I have been catching on gardening, those past two years my poor garden took a hit, I just didn't have the mind/energy to tackle the tasks. I just redo my patio: new furniture, new gas fire pit, and new borders (had delivered 20 bags of mulch and 10 of garden soil)... My body hurts everywhere but my Happy Place is ready.

I know situations even if they are similar can be different sometimes, but I just wanted to mention to you that my WH became "worst" again during piecing during may be 2 months, at one point after an argument, the next day he told he was going to leave me in a few months (next school year) because he couldn't stand me anymore. I tried to talk to him, but he refused to listen to me and stonewalled me. A few weeks later, when I asked him in a very quiet and controlled manner about his plans so I can get ready, he denied saying that... and afterwards our relationship became nicer.

This week I reread the six stages of mIdlife crisis from Hearts Blessings, she mentioned that during piecing (acceptance), at one point the MLCer will revisit all the phases except replay, during that time the best is to just stand and do nothing, just keep living you life. That's what I did, I just made plans for myself and the kids and let him deal with his thoughts, I gave him space and time, it was easy since I didn't want to deal with him anymore anyway, I was done in my mind with that marriage.

Don't try to have any conversations with him, he is still deeply into his own turmoil. Piecing is a time where the MLCer is still wondering (on the fence) if he stays or if he leaves, so the most you will try to attract him or make him take a decision, the more he will run away and become nasty again.

Give yourself a few months, getting a divorce is a major decision, your situation might look bad right now but in a few months it might get better, what are just a few months to give a chance to the kids to have both parents together a little bit longer if he is not crossing any major boundaries.

Stop being impatient, accept that a marathon not a sprint and piecing is NOT a new Honeymoon, piecing is stabilizing a situation that was destructive. Piecing is a cease fire between 2 people who were at war. Let it go the 'Disney dream of Happily ever after". Now for the positive side, after a few months it gets better slowly.

I know it's tough to visualize that things can change drastically in a few weeks, last year he said he was going to move out this year in July because he couldn't stand me, now he is planning a birthday party for me next week and he doesn't even react when I poke him about the past... His behavior is totally different from last year of even 4 years ago, that version is better, but I still have anger issues about the OWs from time to time. Today at yoga the theme was resilience... for sure I am.

Be strong, sail through the storm (AKA do nothing), enjoy the upcoming Summer and try to find happiness everyday though your interactions with others.

Let him deal with his thoughts without any interactions, stop trying to read his mind because I pretty sure that himself he doesn't know what he really wants right now, show him you can be/live without him but at the same time stay nice, treat him as a good neighbor. And if one day you are really done, let him know in a very polite manner, because even if you are done with him you will still to have to coparent with him for many years to come.

Nothing is set in stone in life.

Big hugs


Me 52+ WH 57+
Married 20 +
Piecing since 2016 (ready to give up...)
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2016,
Wow! thank you for the time and depth you provided posting here. If I file I won't be doing it anytime soon, I have too much on my plate with my heart issues. The recovery looks like it will be a little longer than I thought. I thought it would be just a few days but I've talked some friends who've undergone it and they said it took them at least a month to be 100%. But I think I am going to ask WH to live somewhere else once I move us into the new house. I just can't relax in my own home with this guy. I want to just be left alone for a while so I can make decisions with a clear and logical brain. I feel fairly detached but sometimes moments of pain sneak in or irritation/anger. I am just shocked how my once loving and compassionate husband turned into this...monster. And he blames me!

I've sought the guidance from two Islamic scholars and their suggestions was to move on and leave WH. They are afraid his behavior will cause my children to turn their backs on their religion given how WH has twisted it and bastardized it to justify finding another woman.

Thank you Sky!

Bigbiz,
Thank you for the well wishes and happy bday! I am not sure if I've been very supportive lately as my schedule hasn't allowed as much time to comment here. I feel guilty for being the walk-away-poster, lol!

Painter,
I am not sure if we've ever really been in R or piecing, WH has never fully rededicated himself to our marriage. For every half step he would take forward he would then slide 10 steps back. He still doesn't acknowledge and work on his poor boundaries, he still does not feel the affair was completely his fault, he still will not do "the work." But I can rest assured that I have given 1000% to save this amrriage but WH can't be bothered to engage. His loss.

ForGump,
Thank you so much.

So yesterday my co-workers bought me a huge lunch of my favorite foods, a b-day cake, and roses. I was almost moved to tears and I tend not to show emotions at my work place. I was wrapped in their love and kindness. I am so blessed. I came home and WH was walking out in the garage, hesitated and said he was going to the store for a minute. HE came back with a small birthday cake, some balloons and candles. While I appreciate the gesture it left me more confused than anything. We have barely spoken to each other and he goes and does this? Later that night it was time for the kids to go to bed and my DD6 asked if we could blow out the candles. WH lit the candles and the kids sang happy bday to be. They were so sweet. I thanked WH and the kids ate some cake, brushed their teeth and WH laid down with them. (little confession, the kids mostly sleep in the MBDRM stil, it's a cultural thing to have extended bed sharing in Asian cultures) Most of the time WH will then move to a palate on the floor but last night he staye din our bed. Again...confused here.

Today WH was trying to tell me of an inlaw-to-an-uncle passed away and I was tring to understand how this person was related. WH became frustrated because I was asking for clarification on if I had ever met this person. He spoke in a low/angry tone and explained who this person was. (I've never met them and was unsure why he was telling me about this) Apparently it is customary to call and offer condolences even if I have no earthly idea who this person was. Um...ok? So after the kids are in bed WH will call and I guess we'll...speaker phone it?

In the meantime I told WH about what the pre-op information was for aftercare. I told him I probably needed him to to all the bed/bath/lifting routine for the kids for the next 4 days and maybe longer. I am not supposed to lift anything (including my scrumptious baby) for a few days and overall just take it easy. He mumbled ok and that was that.

So my heart...it's broken. In the literal and symbolic meaning he has broken my heart. For some reason I always assumed if someone caused another person (they previously professed to love and protect) pain and damage that they would have the aha! moment and turn it around. But WH still looks at me with cold and apathetic eyes. Out 8th anniversary is coming in a few days and it looks to be another wasted day. Last year at this time he was back with the OW...probably going out with her or something. I go over my past and wish I had chosen someone else. I wish I had never met this guy, this man who shattered my heart. I definitely wish I had chosen another man to be the father of my children.

Wish me luck tomorrow, I am very nervous.


M 10yrs T 13yrs
BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce
April '17-Letting go
2018 D busted
DD8, DS6, DS3
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Thinking of you!
Hope everything went fine.


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*waves weakly* Here I am friends, hearts been fixed.

Sky,
It looks like we were typing and posting roughly around the same time so I didn't realize you had posted such a long and considerate post. WH has been very attentive both before and after the procedure. They had to keep me overnight because it ran late. They attempted to go through my femoral vein and it was too tight so they went through my jugular instead. WH was very attentive and even tender before and after it. Frankly I just don't trust it. I let him do all the kid stuff because I am not allowed to lift things above 5 pounds.

My body and mind are exhausted, my heart is literally broken. WH is talking about some changes we should make to the new house and I am numb. My mind rolls between hope and then desire for this to just be over. I fantasize about what I want and need in a partner and then feel defeat because I never thought this man would do these things to me. Furthermore that he would feel not an ounce of desire to beg me for forgiveness. Forgive me my friends, this heart procedure has made me SUPER emotional and I find myself constantly fighting tears. I feel vulnerable and my mortality feels closer than ever before in my life. I am physically sore and am battling exhaustion. I will be back later when I am more myself. THank you for your thoughts and prayers, it definitely helped.


M 10yrs T 13yrs
BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce
April '17-Letting go
2018 D busted
DD8, DS6, DS3
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So glad this procedure is behind you now, and glad everything went OK. You get some rest, because I sense that you don't do nearly enough of that! Practice some radical self-love for a few days! Hugs!!


M-60 H-51
M-14 years
BD 12/26/16
S 1/1/17

"First the pain, then the rising."
Glennon Doyle Melton

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Glad to see the surgery itself went OK.

Hang in there Sara, just survive and get back to health.


Me: 50, MLC/WW 45
Young kids
Nov 2015: BD1
Apr 2016: BD2
Jan 2017: W filed
Feb 2017: D final
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 229
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Glad everything went well! Please rest, you need it!
It's normal that you don't trust him, I don't trust my WH either, even after one year and I sincerely don't know if I will fully one day...


Me 52+ WH 57+
Married 20 +
Piecing since 2016 (ready to give up...)
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Caught him snap chatting tonight with a young, single pretty nurse tonight. He was bathing the baby and I walked in and recognized the app (he said he was going to delete it previously.) I've scheduled a talk tonight, I need to address this as stuffing it causes me enormous stress. I won't get irate or anything, I am placing boundaries for my own health.


M 10yrs T 13yrs
BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW
BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off
Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce
April '17-Letting go
2018 D busted
DD8, DS6, DS3
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 229
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So sorry for you!
You are absolutely right to place boundaries not only for your own physical health but also your mental health. If you don't address them he might feel that he has the upper hand in your relationship and can do as he wants.

Chatting with a single female is definitely crossing the line, not only he knows that's inappropriate in regard of his past actions and conversations you had, but also he did it while under the marital roof. That's an evident lack of respect for your relationship and it shows sadly that he is not at all in piecing.

You are so courageous, it's so tough to have those conversations when you know they can be a deal breaker but they have to be done to show that we changed and we no longer accept or close our eyes on some behavior.

Last edited by Cadet; 04/24/17 07:49 AM. Reason: Start a new thread message

Me 52+ WH 57+
Married 20 +
Piecing since 2016 (ready to give up...)
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