I feel like over the last week or so I have gained some much needed clarity giving me a changed perspective. A better perspective. A more positive one. I think. Lol! That's the ambivalence of my still lingering depression.
I consulted Dr. Google on the subject of passive aggression. I came across several articles stating that passive aggression is covert emotional abuse.
Does anyone else out there agree with this view?
Another great book I have recently finished is The Emotionally Unavailable Man. I feel like after reading Living with the Passive Aggressive Man and this book, I have turned a corner. I think because now I truly believe this mess wasn't entirely all my fault. I have read those words in all the literature over and over that it's not my fault, I have said those words to myself over and over, but something about those books have helped me to actually FEEL it.
In The Emotionally Unavailable Man, the author suggests that in order to create a more loving relationship you have to make a conscious choice about love. You do that by doing a purposeful behavior where you do something to care for your partner . . . big or small. She gave some examples of doing his laundry, surprise him for lunch, turn back the sheets on his side of the bed, buy him tickets to a basketball game, not to criticize him all day.
My question is that these behaviors don't seem very DBish. They seem like pursuing behaviors that would chase our MLC'er in the opposite direction. Does anyone else feel that way? Wouldn't these behaviors be better off done later when/if he returns to the relationship? These are behaviors that work on the relationship and since he is not there yet, I ought not to do them? Am I on the right track?
As an update . . . H has started a master's degree program. He spent most of the weekend reading and writing. He hardly spent any time with his son. I'm venting when I write this, but, how in the world does he expect to manage 50% custody time with this, his full time job, and his insane workout schedule?!? Maybe he doesn't plan on sleeping? Oh, I know, he quit therapy. The extra hour he has gained will certainly open up a huge hole in his schedule.
Okay, rant over. But seriously, it seems to me just another bandaid on the wound. More running. If I'm doing this over here, then I don't have to think about this over here.
On the positive side, maybe he'll be too busy to think about divorce. It'll buy me some more time.
Last edited by job; 01/30/1702:08 PM. Reason: Add link to previous thread
In the future, if you can do so, please link your threads. This will help others to follow your situation, as well as help you be able to go back to your previous threads. If your previous thread is locked, I will be happy to link on that particular thread for you.
I'm sure your eyes were opened very wide after reading about PA behaviors. It's very frustrating living w/someone who has this "learned behavior" from childhood. Yes, it can be considered emotional abuse because of the way they are around others. Gas lighting is another little tidbit that has come to light in recent years. That is considered emotional and also mental abuse as well.
The book entitled "The Emotionally Unavailable Man, isn't what the MLCer is right now. In fact, what the author is suggesting in that book isn't what we normally would do here. The MLCer is more like a child/teenager and has to grow up. In fact, if they don't want us around, they why should we do things for them? They have to learn and come to realize that life isn't a bed of roses and hopefully grow up in the process. Since we are dealing w/MLCers who tend to be bouncing all over the place and a majority of them have people waiting in the wings, would we even think of turning back the sheets or buying tickets for them?
If you haven't already read this particular thread, please do so. It might give you more food for thought:
However, I do agree w/one thing...don't make a habit of criticizing them all of the time. You don't want to come off as an authority figure, i.e., teacher, parent or some other adult. We do suggest calling them on some stuff at the time it's done, such as they way they are talking to you, etc.
He thinks he'll have time to spend w/his son...he's in la la land and could very well think his son will be right where he left him when he's finished his master's degree program. In reality, we know just how much time this program requires in the way of time, reading and writing papers...he doesn't have a clue. School could very well be his "drug" of choice to ease his pain and then he doesn't have to focus on his issues.
Last edited by job; 01/30/1702:27 PM. Reason: Added a link to another thread
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I've taken care of linking your previous thread for you in your first posting and posted the new thread link in your "previous" thread for you.
I thought you might not know how to link them...here's a thread that will give you some ideas on what to do. Ask questions the next time you need to do one and I'll be happy to walk you thru it.
More spewing this morning. It can be really hard to take.
The towel bar came off the anchor in the wall. I tried to put it back on, but it wasn't locking into place. So, I asked H for help. He used this as an opportunity to vent.
He raged about how this is yet another job for a handyman. He will just add it to the list (one of the sinks in our bathroom is leaking). Then he complained about some tiles we had repaired over the summer that are cracked again. He said, why bother to fix anything until we are ready to sell the house. He complained that we just wasted money in having the tiles fixed. (We did. He insisted they be repaired. I thought it was premature given I wasn't going to agree to put the house up. So rather than argue about it, I relented and agreed to help pay for the repair.) Then he ranted about having to get our taxes done and having to find a new accountant. (Ours retired.) He said he thought we would have to pay this year and he doesn't know what will happen next year because things will be different. On and on he ranted for a full five minutes.
I just sat there, listened, and nodded my head. He wasn't attacking me, thankfully, but I didn't know what to say. I knew he was angry and frustrated. And I was afraid. I was afraid to say the wrong thing and make matters worse, and I was afraid that because I was saying nothing, I was making matters worse. It was no win situation, at least in my head.
Then I tried to think about this differently. I know that he is frustrated about the house not being on the market. But that is on him. He wants this divorce, so he will have to do the heaving lifting. The way I see it, this is something on his side of his street that needs cleaning. I will not allow his problems to become my problems.
In some of his prior rants, he has complained that we need to have some serious conversations about sorting out property and custody, but we haven't had those conversations. Well, I am not initiating those conversations. (Nor am I planning on telling him this. Should I rethink this?) He hasn't initiated them either. Not a single one. He only brings up the fact we need to talk about these topics when he works himself up into a tizzy.
He is an intelligent, capable, and responsible man at work. So I don't know what to make of this. Part of me is hoping that this means he doesn't really want a divorce; another part of me thinks he does and is just afraid to start the process. He doesn't want to be the "bad guy." It's all so confusing.
Any advice out there?
How does one handle the MLC rants when they aren't directed at the LBS?
What is up with his confusing behavior about the house and these must have conversations?
Sounds like he has become pretty intolerant of mundane, routine but essential maintenance activities. You may not even want to have those discussions with him - just make suitable plans to get them fixed yourself. And if he asks you can update him...
If you discuss stuff like that with him, I wonder if he comes to associate you with those things that are burdensome to deal with and make him feel bogged down??
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
I totally agree w/what Sotto has posted. In his mind, the mundane things are responsibilities that he doesn't want to deal with. Remember, they are thinking like teenagers and having to fix a towel bar is just not something he wants to deal with. So, w/that in mind, locate a good handyman and start phoning when you need something repaired.
He doesn't want to deal w/responsibilities at the moment and that's why he started venting away. Try to have a Plan B in place and don't rely on him.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
You asked me to share my thoughts on a subject on another link. Here they are.
I read your threads, my heart goes to you. You are a very courageous woman.
Job is so much on target when she compares MLCers with teenagers. They are both very tuned to their own needs, they claim they have rights but they run away from duties and have always a good excuse to justify their actions or inactions.
MLCers hate talking about subjects where reality catches up on their "idealistic life".
They are creating a life where their own needs became the center of all. So to have to talk about /think about/face "real life issues" push/force them to realize that the life they created or wish to have is very often just an illusion. When reality needs to be dealt with, it crushes little by little the la la land, it creates cracks into that "fantasy life". It makes that new life not so desirable, not so care free anymore.
Here are some examples, I personally used them, but may be they are not fitting your situation so if you want to use that method you might have to brainstorm your own "wake up calls to reality". You are the one who knows your husband the best, so your targets should be what you think might have the more impact.
I did a very targeted exposure of his affair that he was denying when I was faced with no other choice to protect my children and to enforce also my boundaries, he was so deep in limbo. It disturbed their perfect world, it showed their real faces/actions to others and to each other. It brought chaos to their "ideal love life". He started to realize that people were not going to side with his views on the actions he had taken, they were judging him, he had no mean of pressuring them to make them accept what he did, as they do with us. When you tell your story, stick to the facts and how it impacts your life and your child life, no spew, no crying, keep the high road. Don't use bad words to describe your husband or her, just facts.
Inform him that you won't keep the reason of your divorce to yourself if you divorce, since he is the one who decided to cheat while you were trying to conceive and it is still going on. You won't protect his reputation and go along with "we grew apart, it was a mutual decision". Nope, you refuse to take the blame, you are not ashamed, it brought that to him by his own actions. Yes, you are not perfect, you are human so de facto you have flaws but you are not a cheater or a liar and you kept your vows. When you have those discussions stay calm and be attention to the tune of your voice and the choice of your words, be informative not aggressive at all. No spew. He would have to start thinking about other opinions in regard of his decisions, MLCers are very sensitive to how they are viewed by others.
Inform him that you intend to protect your rights and it won't be only what he wants/ the way he wants but that you want to ensure the protection of yours and son's rights. Become aware of you rights, it doesn't mean you will file but it will show him that you are not going to be influenced/pressured by his will. Also keep those conversations as if you were dealing with a business partner, pay attention to your voice and your words. Do not involve feelings just state your position. He will start to realize there is a gap between his "dream divorce" and "the real one".
Ask him to care for his son for one whole day one day every weekend and one or two evenings at night per week, let him experience what custody means, he will be on his own without you, organize a schedule, make him understand you will have an implemented agreement in case of a divorce and he will have to abide by, so changing it to fit his needs won't be acceptable since you will have your own life too. Here again, tell him that you are trying to help him to get accustomed to care for his son for more than a few hours at a time. Let him try to arrange his schedule for those days (study, work out, cooking, playing with son...), don't ask how it went, don't make any comments. Let him "live" those days on his own. Let him land of Earth.
Thank you Skyhigh for taking the time to reach about my sitch and offering your advice. I really like the idea of having him take care of S so he gets it. He has never had to take care of him by himself for more than a couple of hours. I don't think he gets it. At all.
So for the last three days he has gone dim on me. I mean really dim. He hardly speaks to me. The only time he talks is when it is about S and scheduling issues. He has been really really cold. It's so difficult to take.
I wouldn't take this kind of cold shoulder/hostile/PA treatment from a friend. I have to keep reminding myself not to internalize his behavior. This is HIM, not ME. It has nothing to do with me, but everything to do with how he handles issues in his relationships. I keep reminding myself to ignore it and carry on. Do. Not. React. Do not give him a reason/justification for his anger. Carry on with a PMA.
It's so hard to do when my heart is breaking over being treated this way. Just a rant. I can't understand how he justifies treating someone this way. I suspect (mind reading) that he is upset because the house isn't on the market and because we haven't had these conversations that he feels we need to have and he blames me for that.
I feel like he has an unspoken expectation that I will initiate the conversations. That I will start the work necessary to put the house up for sale. I'm not sure where he gets this from.
I am making myself nutty trying to understand. I have asked myself why do I want to understand what is going on in his nutty noggin. I think there are three reasons.
The first being that I feel like if I understand, I can have empathy/perspective, which at least gives me a sense of peace.
The second reason, I need reassurance his anger isn't my fault. I have come to learn that I internalize his anger. If he is angry, then I must have done something wrong. This is the dynamic I grew up with. My mother was out of control growing up; she was both physically and emotionally abusive. In order to get her to calm down, my dad would make my sister and I apologize. Even if we did nothing wrong. I think that taught me that my loved ones' anger is always my fault so I have to fix it and apologize. The anger causes me to feel uncomfortable and like I have erred. I am motivated to want to make things right, whether or not I am the cause.
The third reason I want to know is so I can argue with it. In the past, I would find fault with his reasoning or I would become defensive (if it was something I had legitimately done wrong). My reaction would be to argue, argue, argue. Which is why I am working so hard to drink my STFU smoothie while smiling between gulps.
I have a lot of work to do on my side of the street. So I better get at it. Thank you everyone for your time. This was a long one.
I can do this. I can stand here and be the lighthouse and take the waves crashing against me. I can take this beating. I am stronger and better than before. I have the knowledge and tools to deal with it.
