Nothing much happening here. STBX hasn't done anything since she drained "her half" of the savings. No lawyers letters arrived either and more importantly my garbage can lid is still missing.
For those who've been playing the home game and are perhaps worried about your own MLCr I checked the law in my own area (Ontario, Canada) and any debts that she incurs under her own name such as credit cards are not my problem in any separation equalization. Her copy of the joint credit card was canceled last week and while there's money exposed in the joint savings account I'm not overly worried about it. It's just money. As far as I can tell I have no risks from any new crazy and there's been no past crazy either. Once lawyers get involved then perhaps crazy might happen.
The last few boxes of her stuff have been moved from under the cellar stairs to the front porch. They were about 8 boxes of "childhood memories" that came from her parent's basement to ours about 20 years ago. Much dust was involved. No clue if / when she'll come back for it even though her last email suggested that she would. I've not bothered nagging her about it although today I put my copy of her car keys into "our" mail box hoping that she'll return mine.
This time of year is tough. Seasonal depression is a thing that causes me problems. STBX was never a help on it other than last year when she delivered hugs and cookies which was the exact right answer. Too bad that she was already cheating on me at that same time. Fortunately I've been able to find Joy in some rather unexpected places along with some very good books to enjoy.
I've invited a colleague of mine out for dinner on Valentines day - she's been a great help to me and I owe her as the new US president would say "bigly". She's been divorced for about 10 years and has been a great help in preparing me for navigating the pitfalls of the legal system and she has been very kind. I still see the pain and anger when she talks about her ex. There is of course a story behind that but it is her's and not mine to tell. And no - before you warn me job - there is no romance in the wind with her. I do quite admire her. Most people encountering her would think that she's meek and mild and I think she believes that of herself. I've played pool against her and got my @ss handed to me (her father owned a pool hall). There's an underlying steel to her that I quite admire.
Our hotel has been booked for S22 and I to go visit D24 and her H in March for my birthday which basically coincides with BD. A much better plan than the original one of getting blind drunk and feeling sorry for myself. It is said that you have to get through one year of "events" to recover from the loss of a loved one. Last Valentines day was a bust here so perhaps I've already navigated that.
A few days ago I got a message from SIL1 that she'd messaged STBX giving sympathy for menopause etc - no response. I thanked her. If I didn't have the perspective from here I'd been even more confused about what is going on. On Facebook I'm separated with a "life event" on that of BD1. Anyone looking at my profile would see that I've not had much interaction with her for almost a year. On her side everything looks "normal" with pretty much no updates since BD. Certainly no mention of OM. She still is "friends" with all of my relatives that she was pre BD even if I've dropped all of her's other than her brother. So many people continue to be surprised that STBX will not even talk about any of our issues or even respond to questions about her plans. On the surface she still seems to be keeping me as a Plan B which isn't an option from my side of this River. As far as social media goes I've disconnected from her on my side but she still seems attached on her's. Not seeing her posts of angst etc makes my life a lot smoother. There's a country music song that might be appropriate in this situation - Travis Tritt - "Here's a Quarter - Call Someone Who Cares"
It's easy to get into a whole bunch of speculation here but as I've learned over this long and rather painful journey it's a waste of time and mental effort. The fact is that I see no path for her to come home and I am moving forward on my own without her.
As Jack_Three_Beans said to me and I believe I am indeed her "one best choice". She's just not capable of making that choice for reasons that are opaque to me and so I am heading off over-land without her. I believe that Otranto is the right destination and then a short sea voyage across the Ionian Sea puts me into Greece. Will there be monsters? Most likely. There will also be Joy, starlight and sunshine and hopefully some nice food and wine. I quite enjoy lamb which I understand is common in Greek cuisine but am unfamiliar with their wines. I'm still in Italy at this point though and the Chianti is quite nice.
For those of you living with me in "Realsville" - yes - it is snowing here in Ontario but my cats warm my lap and my friends warm my heart.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Ouzo??? Baklava? Moussaka? Grilled lamb? ... all lovely choices ...
Re: getting through one year of events to recover from the loss of a loved one - in my experience that has not held true. I'm closing in on the end of year two and it still hurts a lot for different reasons. As I look back it seems to me I spent much of the first year in complete shock and didn't really start any kind of healing process until somewhere into year two. This past (second) year has been about personal healing but also has been a time of watching the denial fade on a lot of fronts. I tell you this because your timeline may be the one year or may be longer. I think everyone's situation is different, so if you are not a "one year" person, that's ok. We all heal at our own pace.
Enjoy the cats and the peaceful quiet of a snowy evening. xo
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
Hey AP, glad to see you doing well here. I've been so caught up in the newcomers forum and my own situation that I haven't had a chance to check on you and CT over here. Gordies thread move to here was a nice reminder.
You seem to have found some things that have helped you stabilize the emotional swings. How're you planning to confront the seasonal depression right now though? Anything you could be proactively doing to be in a better spot to handle it?
My D would be quite jealous of the snow you're getting right now! Hope you have a great weekend brother!
Me39 M11 : T13 D9 BD 5/31/16 In House S until 6/21/17 Divorced 10/5/18
How're you planning to confront the seasonal depression right now though? Anything you could be proactively doing to be in a better spot to handle it?
My D would be quite jealous of the snow you're getting right now! Hope you have a great weekend brother!
LT0402 - Thanks for stopping by. I know that I can get through this season. My family has been in this area for almost 200 years so we've had some practice. At this moment I'm listening to a Beethoven String Quartet after having written to a good friend. Carbs are also a good thing even if I need to be careful of eating too many cookies or jelly-beans.
I have a trip planned to visit D24 in March in Virginia which will be as far south as I am likely to make it in the near term. I'm not sure when her H will be re-deployed to San Diego but I am sure to be visiting them there too. Probably well after spring though.
Vitamin D, music and good friends and I will make it through this. As I've written many times, one step at a time.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Hey AP, great to see you starting a new thread. I thought for one minute there we had lost you!
Like you I'm coming up for the one year mark but in May. At this present time I'm not sure it will make a lot of difference to the way I feel but that's just how I feel now. There are a few more months to go for some growth and detachment so we'll see.
Your STBX is still acting out the mlc script. All urgency and no action except for the money side but I reckon she got advice to do that otherwise she would have done it a long time ago.
No snow here yet, just s few days of freezing fog - yuck! I think seasonal depression is natures way of saying we need to hibernate until the sun comes out! Shame we have to go to work, shop for food etc!
I think it's a really nice gesture taking your colleague to dinner but has she commented on the fact that it's Valentine's Day? I know you aren't thinking romantically but are you certain she isn't ....? Anyway I'm just jealous!
I love Greece too. Been there a few times and love the food but not keen on the ouzo!
Happy weekend AP!
Me - 47 H - 45 D-16 M - 6 years Separated - May 16
Don't leave me behind can't you see me I'm shining... (Years & Years - 'Shine')
Coly23 - Thanks for stopping by. I'm quite certain that my colleague isn't having romantic thoughts about me. We had been chatting about getting coffee or dinner for some time but never set anything up. She mentioned in passing that even her sons will send her meeting requests any time they want to see her so I sent her a meeting invite via the corporate system titled "The least romantic dinner invite ever" She pressed "Accept".
She has mentioned as well that she is seeing someone she met through Plenty of Harmony Fish or whatever those sites are called who lives quite far away. They get together a couple of times a year as circumstances permit. On my side I'm certainly not going to romantically approach any woman who isn't clearly single. I think I speak for a lot of us here who had a spouse with an affair that none of us want to emulate a certain douchenozzel milkman who was "kind" to a lonely housewife. Even if my STBX hadn't cheated on me - it's still something that's "not done". There's nothing saying though that I can't be a good friend to this colleague as she has been to me.
Anyhoodles - second load of laundry is in to wash, cat boxes cleaned, driveway shoveled (2" of wet snow). There's a fresh rose on my desk and one on my bedside table and the bed is freshly made with the handmade quilt that my Grandmother made on it. Dinner tonight is expected to be creamy tomato soup and grilled cheese - a favourite comfort food. I might have time to scrub the toilets first as well (exciting isn't it). I've let some of the housekeeping slide a bit lately - perhaps because I had been feeling a bit blue in part because of the season - need to step it up again. Maybe a nice shiny sink will give me the Vitamin D / sunlight that I need to get through this time of the year. I will get through it though thanks in no small part to kind friends like you Coly.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
As Jack_Three_Beans said to me and I believe I am indeed her "one best choice". She's just not capable of making that choice for reasons that are opaque to me and so I am heading off over-land without her.
I've been lurking on your threads for some time. I have learned a lot from you. I love your quote above.
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
ForGump - Thanks for checking. All is pretty darned good here these days. I have good friends, good books and peaceful surroundings. The gloom of January is past and we've had some bright sunshine off and on as the colder weather has come back here.
All is quiet on the STBX front as well. SIL1 mentioned that she posted a "get well soon" comment to SIL1 on Facebook the other day. I hadn't noticed as I'd unfollowed a while ago. No use speculating why she's still paying attention / attached to my family. Is she in denial about me telling her that it was over? No clue - doesn't matter. I'm assuming at this point that I'll need to just deal with what needs to be dealt with and ignore the rest. I sent an email to my car insurance broker a couple of days ago with a CC to STBX saying that I need my own separate insurance and that it was up to STBX to make her own arrangements. No clue if she's done that or not - not my problem though.
I've not been following you or this forum very much for a while. I did see that you are still pretty active and lending support and kind words where you can. Hopefully things sort themselves out for you.
Thanks again for checking in.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
It's been a while...hope you and your fur babies are okay.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job - Thank you so much for checking. Yes we're all doing well. Things relevant to this forum continue to be quiet. I continue to find joy and light every day and my life, while very different than I might have imagined it to be a year ago is quite good even if it has also taken some unusual twists.
Thinking good thoughts of you and of your kindness and keeping good wishes for all of my friends here. I wander by from time to time to check on people but have little to say here these days.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Hi everyone. It's been a while since my last actual update so I thought I would since something may or may not be happening and because some interesting (to me) stuff will be happening. Most of this is just the usual rambling, reflective and rather lengthy nonsense but there is a question at the bottom as a reward for anyone with the patience to read through or the cleverness to know how to scroll.
First for the most important news. I found my garbage can lid! It took about 2 months and an extremely unusually warm spell here which is still going on but I found it the other day in front of my neighbour’s house and in the opposite direction from where the can went. No clue as to how / why it ended up there but I’m glad that I found it.
Also, before I get into the meat of this post, an house-keeping tip for those of us LBS who are wanting to put that extra “shine” on their houses. Other than one friend, none of the other “housewives” I’ve talked to know this although a chemist friend that I talked to gave me a “doesn’t everyone know this” look. I was reading an article on the chemistry of stains (yes my life is that exciting) a while ago and decided to try an experiment. I got some laundry stain remover with an “oxy” formulation that was designed for red wine stains etc. Putting my teapot and mugs in the sink I put a bit of this powder into them and then added hot water which makes the chemistry a bit more – ahem – active. After a while the accumulated stains just lifted off and wiped away. There was a residue left behind so some careful regular washing was required. Recently I tried this on the baked in stain on my cooktop, sprinkling some powder on it and then adding enough boiling water to make a paste. Let it sit for about 10 minutes and then with some light scrubbing with a paper towel – shining again. For those who care, the “oxy” stands for oxalic acid and the other ingredients include surfactants (yes I work in the chemical bus) that help lift the stain. These products are not intended for food contact so thorough cleaning after is definitely called for. If you want to have your house look nicer than it did when your spouse was caring for it or if you just like things to look nice I suggest giving it a try. The potion involved is rather caustic so the wearing of gloves is highly recommended. I always remember sometime after when I’m wondering where I put the hand lotion.
Today’s musical selection is “It’s A Great Day To Be Alive” by Travis Tritt. My days have been trending up and even though it probably sounds horrible – the cats tend to leave the room – I am indeed singing more and more. Just like in the song, I find that I am joyful many days and more and more getting comfortable being alone and in my own skin. I have done the “fall-apart rabbit” (bonus points for getting the reference without google) thing a few times but generally because I get overwhelmed by how so very kind people are and how much is open to me now. I do get down as well occasionally knowing that STBX is gone and that the joy that I see in front of me will never be shared with her. A bit more on that farther down.
Originally Posted By: Travis Tritt
And it's a great day to be alive I know the sun's still shining When I close my eyes There's some hard times in the neighborhood But why can't every day be just this good ..... Sometimes it's lonely, sometimes it's only me And the shadows that fill this room Sometimes I'm falling, desperately calling Howling at the moon
I’ve been planning on posting this update for a few days and so have been giving it some thought. For those earlier along on this journey than me it probably seems like what happened just came unexpectedly out of the blue. It certainly felt like that for me. Looking back though there was an oppressive gloom that had been building in our marriage for at least a few years before the bombs dropped. Now that she’s gone and isn’t coming back the sun is indeed having a chance to shine and I realize now how much of a fog she had been casting over me for quite some time. I have to watch myself though because I also wonder at times how much history I myself have been re-writing. Just because I am writing this and believe myself to be sane and rational doesn’t mean that I actually am. My IC told me once though that because I am regularly questioning myself and my actions that I am not in any real danger of going off to Fairy Princess Land myself. I do know myself to be impulsive though and I have always been and so I keep a close watch on myself and only allow myself to do smaller impulsive things.
I have been more and more open to people about the fact that I am now essentially single and will mention that STBX “ran off” and that I am confused as to why. People have been universally kind. To satisfy the gossips here, yes, I did indeed ask the very nice lady at the flower shop out some time after I sent my “I’m done”. No – it was not based on any romantic fantasy etc. She is a nice person and I’ve been worried for some time that I was letting a chance to get to know her better slip away. I believe that you need to reach your hand out and open that door when opportunity knocks on it or it will pass you by whether you are “ready” for it or not. She was very kind and it seems that I indeed have a “nice guy but …”. I checked in the mirror and yes it does indeed look pretty darned good these days. It was phrased in a “not at this time” way and she was very kind so perhaps that door may be knocked on again. She has my coordinates and I still go in every week for my roses and our interactions are no different now than they were before. The colleague who I went out for Valentines dinner with has made a point of mentioning how much fun she had and suggested we do it again. Another colleague has made a point of suggesting that I come down to visit her and “hang out” and has made a number of comments on how she doesn’t think that I’ll be single for long. If I wanted to, I could read a lot of narrative into all of this which is tempting but I try not to. It does make me feel very good to know that some very nice women, some of whom have known me for quite a lot of years think highly of me and find me to be someone that they would want to spend time with at least socially. I was so very isolated in my marriage that I honestly felt that I was only attractive to STBX and only minimally at that. I’d also like to mention that Westo’s comments here about it being a pity that I lived so far away made me feel very good too. She strikes me as a very kind person with a broad sense of humour. It is too bad indeed that it is so difficult for us to connect in real life but it is safer that way too.
I’m taking a week off shortly and will be going down to visit D24 and her H in Norfolk for my birthday. I’m really looking forward to it and getting quite excited. I’m also going to be taking down the last of her stuff that she left here along with my rings and a few other mementoes that I don’t want around me but that are part of her heritage. I also have a shopping list of Canadian snacks etc that she can’t get here. Hopefully a single guy driving across the border in a car filled with misc boxes, enough snack food for a siege and headed to one of the largest naval bases in the US won’t be suspicious at all I’m leaving on the anniversary of BD1 and will have to work hard on not focusing on that while I drive. I have an overnight stop on the way down in Maryland (Hi job!) and will be stopping by Goddard for a tour when they open in the morning the next day before heading on. There’s a new art exhibit at Goddard that I want to check out along with the rockets and space stuff. They have a bunch of souvenirs that have a motto on them saying “I need more space” or some such. I thought about picking up one for STBX but that would just be cruel. I’m going to spend a couple of days with the kids and then take 2 days to head back home stopping in Pennsylvania overnight and getting a dose of Americana.
As far as STBX goes, I really have no clue what she’s up to or doing. Other than the email when she drained much of the savings account and made threatening noises at me in mid-January I’ve neither heard nor seen anything. I’ve stopped paying attention to her Facebook feed for some time now but did pop my head over the wall a few weeks ago and there’s nothing seeming to be happening. Very few posts and little indication of what she’s up to in her life. A huge contrast still to pre-bd when she was always keeping the world up to date on her latest adventures. There was one check-in at a local hockey game with a childhood friend who lives locally but that she had disconnected from previously – perhaps rebuilding her friend circle independent of her old life as some vets suggest happens. The same hockey team that she and OM would go to see all the time. One of the reasons for this “update” is that hopefully as of yesterday she has finally signed the papers to take her name off of the joint car insurance. It had taken my/our broker about a month to get her to do this. I just left it in his hands after sending him the original email with a CC to STBX saying that I needed separate insurance and that whatever she wanted was up to her. In talking to the broker he seemed very frustrated with her and very sympathetic to me. One of many instances where seemingly random people have been so very kind.
One of the warning flags that I’d read about here that in hindsight (or history re-writing) stands out is how STBX was so very afraid I think of mortality. She refused to ever talk about what her wishes would be whenever I would bring it up whereas I was always very clear. She was OK with talking about me being dead, but not herself. I do think that she was terrified finding and having to deal with my body though. Odd that she ran off with a man who is at least 10 years older. Even though she always claimed to be very keen on becoming a grandmother I don’t know. I would refer to the kid’s cats as my “grand-kittens” and myself as their “grandpa” but she never would for herself coming up with a fairly bizarre word. Again though – how much of this is me re-writing the past to fit the narrative of a typical MLC. I know it is reassuring to us LBS to think that our spouses have “affaired-down” I do wonder about that. I can certainly see that happening if someone is desperate to fill a “need” but I don’t think that happened here. I also think (I really need to stop mind-reading) that may be why it’s not working out for her. She didn’t go out looking, he did. Two needy people who bonded. In the early days of limerence she did some stupid things and got sucked in. Perhaps he saw who she really is and pulled away and backed off from making good on the commitments he did previously. He’s an established businessman with grown kids taking over the business and numerous grandchildren. It certainly looked in December that she was chasing madly after him after being apart from him for some time. She then perhaps stupidly posted a picture of her car in front of his house which then ended me as her plan B.
Having read more than a few of the stories on here although I confess that I don’t follow along with any of the newcomers and just keep half an eye on old friends (“Hi Westo/Coly/Altair/LouR etc etc”) I wonder at times if we are causing ourselves confusion by putting the MLC label on something that may be more complex. A regular question / comment is “my spouse is too young / old for a MLC”. I wonder perhaps if this is more a factor of depression and a particular personality type. Again, I may be reading something into what is not there but many of the warning signs that STBX shows I see in S22. Depression, not dealing with things in front of him, refusal to think about the future and just being “lost”. I worry a lot about him. He and I were supposed to go on the grand adventure to see D24 but recently when we were out he had me pull over and told me that he couldn’t come and was having panic attacks just thinking about it. I have no idea why and I didn’t ask and just hugged him while he cried and told him that he was far more important to me than any trip and that it was all ok. I don’t know how to reach him nor how to help him but am a “lighthouse” for him I hope if he seeks shelter from the storms.
I really don’t know what is going on with STBX. I’m going through my “list” giving her back her car keys via my/our PO box, disconnecting her from Netflix, getting separate car insurance. All of her crap is still in the front porch and there’s no sign of her getting any of it and I have my doubts that she's done any of the things I've asked of her that I can't do myself such as giving me back my own keys or getting her name off my utility bills. I could put down her draining the savings as a re-active action after my “I’m done” letter and very angry phone-call. The almost complete lack of reaction from me has probably allowed her to sink back into the fog. With that said I am being very careful because you never know what sort of monsters may be lurking in the fog while I sail along in the sunshine.
This brings me to the question. I have an hour with my lawyer booked for the end of March. I’m going to review the history of my sitch with her along with my list of items that take me to D. The key two pieces of advice that I am looking for are to ask if my list is reasonable and legally appropriate and also what my options are if as I expect that STBX will not drive this bus in the direction that I want it to go (simple settlement, part ways amicably). Is there anything else I should be asking?
Anyhoo – probably more than enough for now. I do swing by here every day or so even though I don’t post / read much any more. I am grateful to MWD and the team of moderators and of course my fellow companions on this journey for this forum and for your kindness and support. Time for me to get my banking and grocery shopping organized and of course picking up my fresh roses.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Well, I've stopped sobbing now and I've finally composed myself after reading your post. I'm not sure what set me off. Your intelligence, eloquence, honesty,I don't know.
Maybe it was the question of asking if we LBS's rewrite our own marital history? I'm wondering that too. Was our marriages really that happy? I don't know now!
I'm glad my comment made you' feel good'. That has put a big grin on my face.
They say be the person the WAS would be mad to leave.......
I believe your wife is indeed mad. Take care lovely man.
What you wrote about your son is heartbreaking. I fear similar issues with my kids, although it's a bit too early to tell (they're young). So much of mental health is both nature and nurture ....
I will keep wondering about you, so do post updates now and again, however mundane.
Me: 50, MLC/WW 45 Young kids Nov 2015: BD1 Apr 2016: BD2 Jan 2017: W filed Feb 2017: D final
I'm sorry to hear of your Son's issues. It must be very frightening for him to be going through this and also for you to see your own child suffering. It's also must be very hard to not have your W by your side helping to support him. I can't remember if you said whether he has had professional help?
I think your right about your W's knee jerk reaction to you saying you are done when she cleared out your savings. It's very frustrating and strange to see how time slows down for them after the all the urgency at BD.
As FG said, keep coming back every now and again to update us AP. I am very much like you at the moment. Although I read a lot I am not journaling so much anymore. I just feel like I am going around in circles and breaking every DB rule in the book!
Me - 47 H - 45 D-16 M - 6 years Separated - May 16
Don't leave me behind can't you see me I'm shining... (Years & Years - 'Shine')
dream! Do we have some sort of cosmic harmony going? This is yet another time that you have poked your head up just when I had something to say.
So - things are happening(ish). First and most importantly "Happy Birthday to Me!" - sig line updated.
To try to put some things in chronological order.
- Feb 28 - get email from STBX asking if she can stop by on Mar 2nd to pick up her stuff from the front porch. I email an OK and let her know that I'll be out of the country visiting D24 on my birthday the week after.
- Mar 1st STBX emails to let me know that she won't be picking everything up due to logistical issues with a trailer.
- Mar 2nd STBX comes by with 2 female (I think - camera was blurry) friends who move out 80% of the stuff that was packed up. She spends about 45 minutes in the house and does wander around. I had left the phone with a "missed call" indicator on it to see if she would do any detail snooping of that. It used to be something she always examined but she didn't. Nothing beyond what was packed was taken but as she was leaving the camera caught her complaining that she didn't "get all my books".
- Being a heck of a nice guy I sent her a thank-you note for leaving the front porch in good shape.
- Mar 9 - "bomb-a-versary" - I get up early to start driving to Norfolk. In my inbox and duplicated in Messenger were a bunch of pictures from SIL1 showing STBX having a great time with her douchenozzel at a high end tropical resort. Good thing that my health plan covers her travel insurance and birth control - sigh. I'm glad that I disconnected from her social media some days previously so that it wasn't thrust in front of me. I sent SIL1 a note thanking her for letting me know what STBX was up to but asked for no further pictures. I'm still working on scrubbing those images from my mind.
- Since the proverbial cat is out of the bag I sent S22 a note apologizing to him for lieing that I didn't know if his mother had been dating and saying that yes I did know starting in April 2016 but that as far as I knew that she had been dating back in 2015. I asked for him to forgive me and told him that I have been absolutely truthful about everything else.
- Much driving then happens - podcasts and loud music and bad singing in lovely weather. I visited Gettysburg and Goddard on the way down - great places and well worth the visit if you are going down. Friends around the village had asked me to keep them updated on Facebook as I went along so I did. I didn't mention anything about STBX's adventures.
- I arrive in the afternoon of March 10th to Norfolk and proceed to have the most wonderful time with D24 and her H (when he was off-shift). Much walking and talking about everything was done as well as seeing the available sites. I also apologised to D24 for keeping things quiet about her mother's adventures. D24 seemed pretty angry at her mother. She had largely stepped away from social media herself some time ago and but had received some picture texts from her mother's adventures. She told me later that her mother has asked to visit in June and muttered that she hoped that "that guy" didn't come. We talked about me coming back down in September and she was quite excited about that especially if I could get S22 to also come along that time. We did joke a bit about all of the stuff that isn't in the house and talked about decorating ideas. Many hugs, smiles and laughs. A few tears from me when it was time to say goodbye and when all the kids sang Happy Birthday to me. S22 called in remotely via Skype and seemed in good humour and very happy to see me and take part in my birthday. I must say that this has been about the best birthday in many many years.
While I was there on March 10th STBX went back to the house without telling me in advance for over an hour and the neighbour who was taking care of my cats sent me a note. I had also noticed on the security cameras and she did some more wandering around the house as far as I could tell. It seems that the neighbour had also seen the lovely vacation that STBX and Senor Douchenozzel were on and had blasted all over Facebook and was quite shocked. I gave her the basic details. It is so freeing to not be hiding any more and that STBX is the one who has spilled the beans all over the place and in such a dramatic fashion. I did have a bit of a LOL because the neighbour also made a point of mentioning that STBX has put on all of the weight that she had lost (from the pictures perhaps plus a bit more). Pretty impressive since at the end of November she was down quite a bit and depressed.
March 11th - my birthday and the anniversary of when a sober STBX told me she was leaving and she was back in the house yet again for a short while. One of the best days I have had in many years thanks to D24 and her H and S22. I got cake!
March 13th - I got up and had a nice breakfast with D24 and her H and then headed north stopping in south-eastern Pennsylvania. The forecast was calling for bad weather but I was being all cocky Canadian and didn't worry.
I awoke the next morning to about 6 inches of snow on the car and icy conditions. Still not very worried except that the place I'd intended to go to for breakfast was closed. As were most of the gas stations. I gassed up, and got on a very empty Turnpike and headed north. My heavens - what crappy weather and a crappy drive. I got lost twice following people who looked like they knew where they were going which turned out to not be places I wanted to go. There was a deep snow-drift all the way across the turnpike with a slot in it where the transports were going through and I bounced off the side of it and spun out and nearly ended up in the ditch. I tried to pull into a rest area and almost got trapped by all the trucks that were in there waiting the storm out.
Fortunately the weather improved as I went north-west and I eventually got home without incident.
My girls were very happy to see me and doing a survey around the house I can see nothing missing nor even disturbed. I had left the house well-scrubbed - much better than it had ever been before. The 6 boxes that STBX had left behind on her first trip were gone as were the book-cases I had gotten down for her. Her exercise equipment was left behind - perhaps she doesn't need to be fit any more (?)
So - I'm not sure where this leaves me other than in a better place. There are no more secrets and I am grateful that I wasn't the one to advertise things. Will STBX actually file herself now? I hope so but I'm not counting on it. I am so very glad that I had decided a while ago that even if she asked that I wouldn't take her back. It made the pain of seeing her with her richer, older, thinner new guy a lot less. It does still hurt.
So - today I'm cuddling with one of the girls typing this update. I've got my book-keeping all done from my trip. Sadly I am over-budget now in vacation spending but may be able to move some money around once I get the new car insurance and life insurance bills. Laundry is just finishing up and I am going to pop in to town and get some few groceries for the rest of the week. The clouds just broke as I typed this and the sun is shining.
Life is good.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Hey AP, great to see an update from you. I've been wondering what you have been up to!
HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU! Sounds like you had a nice time with your D, just what you needed. It's good also that everything is out in the open with OM, maybe that will take the shine off their secret affair.
Spring is around the corner and that's something for us all to look forward to. A bit of sunshine and warmth to lift our spirits. Take care AP. X
Me - 47 H - 45 D-16 M - 6 years Separated - May 16
Don't leave me behind can't you see me I'm shining... (Years & Years - 'Shine')
I'm very glad to read that you had a wonderful time visiting w/your D.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Well - it's been almost a month so I suppose it's time for a post. I've been reading here off and on but not too much. Probably a bunch of the people around currently won't remember me nor my drama.
Nothing much has been happening here. I did discover that on one of her visits to the house while I was on vacation that STBX took some of the antique glassware from the china cabinet. Annoying but it doesn't really bother me as it was stuff that I was never allowed to use anyway as it was "too good" to be used.
I haven't heard from her since her email at the start of March when she said she was coming to the house for her stuff from the front porch. She blocked me on Facebook sometime after I unfriended her. I only realized this because D24 had some comments on a Facebook post that didn't show up and I checked. This is a good thing because now I don't stumble across her name nor her activities even by accident. I expect that she is pretty intent on blocking me from her new life.
Life here is quiet with me and the cats. Spring is in full force now and I'm looking forward to getting out into the flower beds etc again. I think for this year I'll leave the plantings largely as they are including STBX's heritage plants. On the list of actions that I suggested to her back in January is an item for her to come and retrieve whatever plants she may want. Some of them are quite nice such as the back garden bed of peonies from her grandparent's farm. I've started some spinach inside as an experiment to see if I can get a head-start on that. Wish me luck. Spinach supposedly doesn't transplant well.
This morning just in case any other LBSs are having "adventures in housekeeping" like I am I found a great new pancake recipe. As AndrewP - Single Guy v1.0 I was great at making them but both lost my touch and had struggles scaling my recipe down for one person with a much lower metabolism than I had in my 20s. If you google "Lonely Girl Pancakes" you'll find the recipe I used which worked out quite well. She has some other recipes for tiny cakes made in coffee mugs too which I may try. Most of the mugs left the house with STBX but there's still a bunch left - we had sooo many.
My moods swing up and down still but not as dramatically as they used to. I'm coming out of a down swing that has lasted for a bit over a week. I can't recall the last time that I wept though - it was several months ago and that time was when I was overwhelmed by how kind people around me have been. It has been tough in the mornings waking up alone which seems to be a trigger for me. Not that there's much chance of that changing any time soon. Other than the one very nice lady I asked out back in January who was kind when she turned me down, I've not asked anyone else out. This isn't anything that can be "fixed" through a GAL activity. My life is actually rather good and as full as I want it to be currently. My barber was assuring me yesterday that there are a lot of single women our age in the area and complained that they keep hitting on him even though he's married. I suggested that he let them know that I exist
Now that STBX and OM have been "outed" I can talk to people more comfortably about where I am and why. In the last few days a surprising number of people have suggested that STBX may try to come back and have told me in no uncertain terms that I would be an absolute idiot to let her. I would agree with them. I can't imagine her changing from the person that she became almost exactly one year ago when I discovered that OM existed. I know that part of why I am down is because of that anniversary coming up. I'm trying to find Joy and comforts where I can. I still get my roses (and chat with the nice lady at the shop) and she's putting together an arrangement for my table for Easter. I still walk a fair bit usually about 4km on Sundays but now no longer do it with spinning thoughts of STBX. I do stop off for a nice bowl of soup at the end with my friend at the bake shop. Today's is a creamy potato soup I've been promised.
I did meet with my L at the end of last month and she gave me some very good advice that I'm not going into many details on here since there's a fair chance that STBX knows that I come here. In essence she did suggest that I not stir the pot and leave well enough alone. She told me that there is no legal barrier to me dating - I didn't ask her if she knew anyone who would date me It's still my hope that STBX will do as I asked / suggested and write up a simple agreement on her side and then I'll just sign the darned thing if it is reasonable. I'm not holding my breath though. The only legal things on my side that are involved is the ownership of the house - not that it's worth much and me getting married again and since I can't seem to get a date ....
I have no idea at all what is up with STBX but don't tend to worry about it. I don't hear much if anything about her. The kids don't mention her and her new life and friends don't intersect with mine. I don't wish her ill although from time to time the anger and hurt does come to the surface still. I do think that both of our lives will be simplified if she and OM have a "happily ever after" but don't know if that is her intention or not. The only stuff she has left behind in the house that I wanted gone is some exercise equipment that I have moved out of sight in the front porch in case she comes for it. From comments from others and from what I saw on the security camera she's back to her pre-OM weight so perhaps she is now happy and back to her old snacking habits.
Tonight I'm going to try a variation of Jack_3_Bean's Chicken Marsalla but doing it in the wok instead of a regular pan. Wish me luck. Since the cats don't get any and I don't tend to complain about the quality of cooking no matter who is doing it, it should be fine. My own weight has stayed pretty stable at about 100kg down from the 120ish that I was pre BD. My appetites for all sorts of things have pretty much returned which I take as a positive thing. I have a bunch of windows open right now and there's a nice cross-breeze through the house. I hung my wash outside yesterday for the second time this spring and it was nice to see the sheets and unmentionables flapping in the breeze. I still have my ironing to do today but that I've got down pat.
I hope everyone, both people that know me and those who I've not met are doing well. This place was both a place of healing and pain for me but I continue to be grateful for both it and for the wonderful people I have met here who have helped and are helping to shape my new life. Thank you all for your kind birthday wishes and LouR - keep looking. You never know when an odd looking lump on the beach will be pure ambergris. A special shout out to my old friends Altair, Coly23, Westo, CT1118, ForGump and of course job without whom I would still be so very lost.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Hey AP, great to see you post an update. I think of you often and wonder how you are doing.
you sound like you have reached that nirvana in your sitch which we all aspire to and that's acceptance. I think with acceptance comes the ever elusive detachment and for me I think it has to be that way around. Acceptance leads to detachment.
You are an inspiration to me in how you have followed your path and built a life that doesn't centre around your stbx. I especially love your cooking adventures! You should write a book about your cooking adventures! Maybe call it LBS Cooking Adventures in the Bottom of a Chest Freezer... !
I know it can still be very painful AP. I'm struggling a lot with my emotions these days but I think that's to do with getting closer to acceptance and the realisation that I may not get the resolution I desire so much.
I'm going to say this now and I hope I do not upset anyone but from experience second marriages/relationships struggle so much more because of expectations. Although I don't regret marrying my H I now see I was not ready to marry as I had not done the work on myself following my divorce from my first H. I regret making sure I didn't make the same mistakes so all I can say is take your time. You will only be lonely if you let yourself be lonely.
Please come back and update us often (((AP)).
Me - 47 H - 45 D-16 M - 6 years Separated - May 16
Don't leave me behind can't you see me I'm shining... (Years & Years - 'Shine')
Well - another month is pretty much gone by and yet again not much to report.
News of STBX and her activities both current and past continue to spread. By this time though I would imagine that it's gotten normalized though just like me being alone has been I am sure. There are still occasionally people I encounter who are surprised. Generally people are quite kind.
I'm not sure what S22 / D24 think of it all. They've both been very kind and supportive of me although S22 continues to be depressed and withdrawn. I've largely left him alone. He did come up for Easter with his mother which nobody told me about but we use a location sharing app and I happened to check. I chose to take no notice / make no comment. My own Easter was reasonably good. The flower shop did me a nice centre-piece for my table which the cats only nibbled at a bit before deciding that it was a bad idea. I cooked up a ham, had a nice bottle of wine and it was reasonably good.
I think we are slowly dragging along to the eventual end of things. It turned out that STBX left what she thought were my car keys here when she was here in March but in fact left her's which made me giggle. I packaged them up with an apologetic note suggesting that it was my mistake in not getting them back to her. Also I had asked at the post office about getting the locks changed there and a week or so later the guy who runs this (STBX's boss) mentioned that he had my spare key. That was probably awkward.
Yesterday one of the several good causes that STBX has volunteered with left a package at my door so I emailed her that she could come and pick it up. She replied and mentioned that she would also drop off my car key for which I thanked her. She came by around noon today and was in the house for a total of about 30 seconds according to the security cameras and yes, the keys are here now. I don't know if she still has a house key or if she used the spare one that I haven't moved. I'm not planning on emailing her a separate thank you. She knows already.
Some of the people around me are pushing me to be aggressive in getting her to complete off the separation. There are still banking ties which are annoying etc but really, I don't think it makes much difference. Based on the advice from here, leaving her to continue her journey at her own pace while I am here on the Far Shore on my own journey is probably for the best as far as making this amicable.
Some people whose opinions I very much trust have suggested that she and OM will never get their "happily ever after" since if it was going to happen it should have already. I do dread the possibility of her knocking on the door one day and asking for forgiveness and to come back. I have indeed searched my heart long and hard for this forgiveness and cannot yet find it. I find no hate though. The anger is still there but the passing of time has dulled it just as it has dulled the memories of the sharp and nearly fatal pain that I felt this time 12 months ago.
I don't like being single but feel no burning need to dash out and try to start something. I certainly won't be logging on to Plenty of Christian Harmony Fish or whatever those sites are to try to find love. Many of the people around me know that I am alone, that I'm a decent guy and that I am open to finding a kind and caring (and probably necessarily patient) woman with whom I can share my life at some point. Many of those people have been very positive that such a person will come my way if I just let things happen "organically". I am enough of a farm boy to know though that even organic crops need fertilizer.
So - the Earth has gone full circle around the sun now since my old world was destroyed. The grass is turning green and has actually had to be cut once already. The flowers are bursting out of their beds as is the rhubarb. I don't care for a number of the flowers but on my "list" is an item for STBX to come and get cuttings / roots of whichever heritage plants she wants although living in an apartment it might be difficult for her to propagate them. In a couple of weeks I'll pull the winter cover off my sloop and check to see if I need to make some new sails for "the bear" for this season. She hasn't been on the water in a very long time but I think this year she'll get her bottom wet a time or two.
A lot of me wishes both that this never happened and that it was all "over" with. I still am living largely day to day. Jack and eric gave me some excellent advice a long time ago here to make the decision every day on whether I would continue to Stand or not. I chose a while ago not to Stand any more. Each day I continue to be comfortable with that choice.
I hope all are well. I still read from time to time. More in the last couple of weeks because I'm in a bit of a down cycle. Most here I don't know and am not familiar with your stories. I am grateful for this place as a place that was indeed a light for me in a very dark time. I have found the ability to make my own light now and have found other lights shining in the darkness that help guide my way.
Music is very important to me as anyone who has "played the home game" may know. One song that always fills me with Joy was put together by a very good charity called Playing for Change. It is called Satchita and is sung in Portuguese and Sanskrit, two languages that I do not know at all. I found the English version of these lyrics recently and thought I would share them for the more spiritual ones among us. Knowing what the words actually mean make the song even more special for me. The floor is wide open, feel free to dance.
Originally Posted By: Playing For Change
I pray to God that men are lost in your footsteps And that dreams awaken these dormant eyes That love overflows and we live in peace The days end with tired arms and that luck just wants to be by your side. And that pain will not haunt you or cause you despair, I pray to God
Primordial sound that which is formless, omnipresent, Pure Consciousness Manifesting in love and divine bliss, Supreme creator beyond space and time, Supreme soul guiding mankind, Supreme inner energy that manifests as all powerful mother nature along With the unchanging and constant father I submit and submerge myself, I become one with.
I pray to God. Send us from heaven much wisdom and true love. That no one goes hungry. A hug from his arms to live in Peace ending wars And poverty. Find joy from sadness and that light illuminates the lost souls towards a Better future.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
AP, great to hear from you! The board had changed quite a lot over the part few months but there are still a few of us familiar posters who continue to visit.
Sounds like you continue to move forward with your life which is as much as we all hope to do. Although I was sad to read that your son came up to see his Mum at Easter but didn't stop in on you. I think it's on these occasions that the split in the family is at its most noticeable.
Just one very tiny 2x4 from me and that is to say that it no way should you have apologised to STBX for her error in picking up the wrong key. I know you are such a gentleman but she does not deserve your chivalry at all.
Like you I love this time of the year. As someone said on here previously it is a time for new growth and new beginnings and it fills me with hope for my future even if it is on my own. I hope you get to take advantage of the warm, sunny days in your sloop messing about on the river....
Wishing you lots of Peace AP. X
Me - 47 H - 45 D-16 M - 6 years Separated - May 16
Don't leave me behind can't you see me I'm shining... (Years & Years - 'Shine')
Well - I didn't expect to be posting again any time soon. Just cruising along, making some plans for the summer and living quietly alone. But as job posted to Altair Life has a way of changing very quickly
On Saturday night I was on the phone with a good friend enjoying an adult beverage when a text comes in from S22. He asked if he could move home the next day "for a short time". I knew that his lease was up and both his mother and I had been unable to get information from him on where he was moving to so this was more than a bit of a surprise. He's not working and left school some time ago but had been living in "student housing" just off-campus.
So - Sunday rather than being spent going to the local home and garden show and doing my ironing involved driving about 1/2 way across the province, helping to clean his apartment, loading the trailer and then driving back in heavy rain. I now ache in all sorts of places. On the way back he answered a text from his mother asking for his new address. A small part of me is curious as to how she took that news. I believe he responds to her text messages but not mine in part because she gets upset when he doesn't.
When I had talked to friends about S22 and any move he might have made I had presumed that his "best" option would have been to move in with his mother. I presume that they are close - he was wearing his souvenir hat she got for him on her high end vacation with the d@@chenozzle (punch me in the gut again please - I expect he didn't think). I have of course over-analyzed all of the "whys" but know that they don't really matter. She would have presumably pressured him more than I would, she knows lots of construction guys who could use an extra man and then there's OM who has a delivery company that might have given him a job. Shelving my ego and emotions is necessary in this case.
I need to try to figure out now something that I didn't expect to have to deal with. Co-parenting. He's under my roof but his mother lives 8 minutes away. He is also an adult too. He seems in a fairly positive mood and was open to some suggestions I made like getting his driver's license. He talks on one hand about a "short time" and on the other about being there for a couple of years. Thinking it through I don't see any need to reach out to his mother. When we were together we weren't able to help him, perhaps in part because we expected the other to take the lead and also perhaps because things were deteriorating between us. If his mother wants to be involved, that's up to her. Mother's day is coming up so they will probably spend that together and maybe they will talk.
He seems to be looking forward to us being two guys living together although it's hard to tell after one day together. Wednesday we're going to do some grocery shopping because I don't have enough food for both of us for the whole week and because he probably will want some different things. On the weekend we'll be refreshing his wardrobe using the rent money I gave him at the end of last month that he didn't need. I have to figure out a way to have some constructive discussions with him on turning his life around and getting some traction but am planning on giving him the week to get settled in and comfortable and safe. One thing I'm going to push a bit is for him to get in to see a therapist who can perhaps help him with his depression etc.
Without a driver's license there's not a lot of opportunities for him in my village so we need to figure out the balance between healing and growing. I don't know those answers and he probably doesn't either. He could move into the small town about 20 minutes away. There's no transit but there are lots of opportunities for a keen young man - which historically he's not been. He also has expressed in the past that he never wanted to move home and work in one of the local small businesses because that would have been "failing". Staying in my village creates some logistical problems as well as I'm not generally easily available to give him a lift to wherever working 2 1/2 hours away from home 4 days/week. Taxis are available and reasonably cheap or he might ask his mother who is much more available.
Since he's home I've turned off the security system. No clue if his mother will stop by the house to visit him while I'm away and in many ways it's none of my business if that happens. There's not much left for her to take out of the house anyway.
He's been gone for 4 years so it will be weird to have him as a permanent resident again. I did promise him that he could move home at any time with no questions asked and I do keep my promises.
Just when you think you've got it all figured out ....
Last edited by job; 05/01/1711:25 AM. Reason: edited language
I just happened to be checking your thread for an update and I got to read 2 of them!!
What a huge change in a short time. I hope it's not too awkward for you and your son to have him back at home. I'm sure it's not something he really wanted to do. No offense to you! But who would want to move back home as a grown adult?? I don't think you need to co-parent. I think you need to set up some basic rules and support for your son. Last thing you want is him still living at home with you years from now with no job and no progress.
When my XH was going through his affair, I moved back home with my kids for a short period of time. I had to let my parents know if I was coming home that night and my kids weren't allowed to play outside unsupervised. Those were the rules. I was currently finishing up school at the time, I'm sure there would have been a rule about getting a job if I was still living there after I finished the program.
Anyway, it sounds like you already know this, but I wanted to let you know I think it's real important. Have some talks with him about what his plans/thoughts are. Get some things put into action. Don't let him bum off you. Even if he's doing work around the house, that's a start - laundry, dusting, dishes, etc. It sounds like he could definitely use some counseling.
Back to your other update... I think it's fine to let nature take its course for now. There's no need to rush things if you aren't in a hurry. From what I read about divorce in what I think is your area, you have to live separated for a year before it can be finalized.
I think it's weird that she was in the house for 30 minutes to pick up a package.
Looking forward to hearing how things progress with your son back at home. All's pretty good with me. Baby will be a year next month! I still contemplate posting my story for people to read. Maybe one day.
I think it will be good for you and your son AP to spend some quality time together and as you say you can help him in getting a job and getting his life back on track. Maybe you can give him a few projects to do around the house/garden...
Me - 47 H - 45 D-16 M - 6 years Separated - May 16
Don't leave me behind can't you see me I'm shining... (Years & Years - 'Shine')
Westo / Dream / Coly23 - thank you my friends for stopping by.
Dream - She was in the house this time for 30 seconds, not 30 minutes. There was no real need for to actually go in I think but I did mention to her in my email responding to her saying she would drop off my car key that I hadn't bothered changing the house locks. The short duration made me wonder why she bothered. She did spend some longer times in the house when I was away to see D24 for a week, presumably checking to see that she had gotten all of the stuff she wanted. S22 told me a funny story about one of the visits where she mis-placed a cat and called him for advice / help despite him being many miles away and not having lived there for years.
That's exciting that your wee one is almost 1. He(?) should be quite the little bundle of energy. I have a nephew almost the exact same age and when I recently was allowed to look after him for an evening he kept me on the run.
S22 has a lot of unpacking and re-organizing to do over the next few days. He also probably has a lot of hard thinking to do. Last night he made dinner for both of us with minimal prompting (frozen pizza) but he does have a fair sized repertoire. I think / hope that he's matured a lot in the last while. He is a very kind young man who has been on his own now for quite a while. A lot different from the teenager who resented being told what to do I think. I think that one thing that I have learned over the last year as well is patience, to keep my expectations low, and I hope to be able to listen. I hope that he will talk. He wasn't open to that when he was home for Christmas but that was just a visit and at that point he (I presume) didn't know that the split between his parents was permanent and probably didn't want to take sides.
I do still remember though on his birthday 2 years ago him exploding at both his mother and I for "always fighting" - something that I didn't think that we did. It did follow an episode where his mother was being dismissive and talking down to me and I didn't agree. No raised voices and it was a short and polite(ish) exchange. Perhaps the gloom was over the whole family. He was certainly having his own problems then and STBX would have been in the midst of her (suspected) EA at the time even if she might not have thought it was one. I certainly wasn't perfect either being rather gloomy with a tendency to sit in my comfy chair drinking beer. Times have definitely changed from then.
On the other hand a local company is having a hiring fair looking for 30 new people on Wednesday morning. I am absolutely going to offer him a ride.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Well - it's been about a month - time for an update. I'm sitting in my home office today and one of the cats is insisting on holding my hand in her paw so it may take a while to type this out.
S22 has been home for a month now and appears to be settling in ok. I was a bit surprised and also not surprised in that he's seen his mother maybe 3 times this month. Once for dinner a week after he got back, once for Mother's day dinner although earlier in the day he'd mentioned being home for dinner, and once when he needed a ride to go visit a friend in the hospital. He is very depressed but seems to be coming out of it a bit. He had a panic attack just before the job fair and so didn't go and I've seen him have them again at seemingly random times. I don't ask for details. I've suggested that he go in to see a therapist and he's open to that but I don't believe has actually made an appointment. Generally though he's doing well, spending more and more time outside of his room, helping out around the house etc. He's also met some new friends in the village and joined the local penny ante poker game which he has a lot of fun with. I'm disappointed in some ways that his mother doesn't seem to be making time for him but I'm not really surprised.
For me, I've been up and down. It's been weird having S22 home but in some ways good. The house is in pretty good shape and I have the flower beds all set as well as my planters with flowers and vegetables. I've decorated the house up a bit in preparation for the 150th Canada Day coming up on July 1st. I've been keeping up my walks and chat and visit with the neighbours on my walks and otherwise. My weight has stayed stable now for about a year. I'd like to lose another 10kg but don't stress about it. I think that I'm now a generally cheerful person although I do still get pretty lonely without a true companion. There are a couple of women at work who I think would be interested in going out with me but I don't know if I want to as that complicates things. I did go out for drinks with one of them after work and we had a lovely visit. My lady at the flower shop and I still chat and I may ask her out again at some time. I did ask in January and she said first that she was interested but then said that her life was too complex. No real rush though. I've booked off about 2 weeks of vacation at the end of June and have a good friend who will be hopefully visiting for a day or so and plan on some adventures on my own including getting my little 16' sloop out on the water for the first time in a few years.
I had an bit of stress recently because both my SIL1 and a couple of friends indicated to me that they felt that STBX would be popping her head up shortly and be wanting to come back home. One of SIL1's theories (she has a lot) is that it's not working out between STBX and her fella. She has an alternate theory that STBX will be pushing her guy for a commitment and that if she doesn't get it that she'll fall back on good old Plan B. From the village rumour mill I have found out that it was her intention from the very beginning to move in with the guy so she's essentially been chasing after him for 18 months now at least. So the whole uncertainty thing which kept me hoping for so long was indeed an act and a lie. Le Sigh. Since SIL1 is still friends with her on Facebook and does interact with her from time to time I took the possibility of STBX asking to come back seriously and gave some hard thought to how I would deal with it. I essentially haven't heard from her since last November. There was a phone call I made in January that accomplished nothing and a couple of emails when she pulled money out of the savings account and around her picking up her stuff from the front porch in March.
You can perhaps then imagine my reaction yesterday when there was a letter from her L in the mailbox. She has initiated the separation process and wishes to use the Collaborative Law method. From the content of the letter it would appear that this is a different L than the one that she may have consulted back in January. It would also appear from the letter that she was not completely open with her L about the timelines or the facts involved. I emailed her L back acknowledging the letter, agreeing that I too wanted things sorted out amicably, pointed out that at least one of her statements (that there was no support need for the children) was incorrect since I had been supporting S22 for quite some time and made a passing reference to OM. If these facts are news to that L then I expect that she will be less than pleased with her client. I do actually believe from the content of the letter that STBX did in fact neglect to mention a lot of things. I also referenced the L that I will be using, commenting that I had consulted her several times in the past. I received a one line acknowledgement of my response. Was the L surprised at how prepared I was? No clue but I certainly wanted to give that impression.
I then wrote to my own L asking for the retainer agreement to be set up and reminding her of my preferred settlement. I expect to hear back on that today. Poof goes any savings I may happen to have built.
So - things are in process and are essentially in the hands of the L now. I expect that the L will want to run this through relatively quickly since it should in fact be relatively simple. I do though worry based on what I've read here plus extensive past history with STBX that it could drag out. I think I've done the right thing for me both by waiting and letting her start the process and also by being as prepared as I could possibly be both by getting familiar with the law myself and also talking to people who have gone through their own divorces.
As I do say now from time to time even though I am neither Muslim nor particularly religious - Inshallah - as God wills it.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
I read your thread from start to finish a while back. I was very impressed at how you turned around your thinking and accepted the reality of the situation you faced. Of course your gentlemanly nature comes across in everything you write.
Just curious (I am a lawyer, although not in family law). Was she required to pursue separation prior to divorce? In my state we have the choice of which we pursue with no prescribed time limits for either of them.
Just curious (I am a lawyer, although not in family law). Was she required to pursue separation prior to divorce? In my state we have the choice of which we pursue with no prescribed time limits for either of them.
OwnIt - Thank you for the visit and your kind words.
Here in Ontario, Canada I believe that it is the case that if you don't have a separation agreement in place when you file for divorce then the courts can choose to impose one. That usually involves higher court costs and is a complete wild-card situation. Doing up the separation agreement first makes it more or less the same as any commercial contract. Lots of people will do it informally which can be accepted by the courts. However, just like any contract the key thing that I have read is that each party needs to have independent legal advice to really make it binding. The collaborative law process has that built into it. Any contract can of course be re-opened - those famous words "Force Majeure" yadda yadda yadda.
Fingers crossed that everything will run smoothly. I think I've mentally prepared myself for this process. Part of it will probably involve a face to face meeting with my old W which will be tough for me at least. I haven't seen her in person since last November.
There are lots and lots of people who never have any sort of agreement nor divorce but just move on with their lives. There are time limits on some sorts of claims I believe but not on all. Having an agreement will be peace of mind for me at least knowing that my obligations and liability will be clearly defined and that she won't swoop in on some future date looking for blood.
PS - I'm impressed with your stamina going through my threads. I was (and perhaps still am) quite the basket case and wrote some of the most astounding drivel. I have a lot of thoughts on my journey and perhaps once I get a bit farther may write a bit about that. I think that this place made it both easier and harder.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Yes, what you wrote comports with our situation. Doing a separation contract would resolve all custody and financial matters and make the divorce a rubber stamp to get the state's sanction of the dissolution.
Seems hard to believe that you haven't seen her in that long given that you live in a small town, but I guess with no young kids it makes that situation more likely. Were it not for my own, I doubt I would have seen my H. My current plan is to try to avoid him until summer is over.
Hope when you do see her that it is a pleasant experience and not a painful one.
Hey AP, just popping by to read your monthly update.
I'm so glad that you're S is slowly coming out f his depression. Hopefully hanging around his Dad is helping with his healing and recovery.
Very strange about the rumours regarding stbex resulting in a completely opposite outcome. I think sometimes friends and family add to the already huge mountain of confusion!
I know what you mean about getting lonely without a companion. I was sitting in the beautiful sunshine on my decking this evening and just longed to have someone to have a glass of wine with and a natter.
I'm looking forward to your next update and do let me and Westo know if you have introduced the cwch to anyone else in Canada!
(((AP)))
Last edited by job; 06/01/1711:56 AM. Reason: edited a word for the poster
Me - 47 H - 45 D-16 M - 6 years Separated - May 16
Don't leave me behind can't you see me I'm shining... (Years & Years - 'Shine')
I'm glad that I mis-read your older post and that STBXW was only in the house for 30 seconds. Yes, the wee little one is moving around and finding whatever trouble possible! haha. Since I work from home, I've learned that I need to take advantage of his nap time and make my phone calls then! Otherwise, it's nearly impossible for me to talk on the phone while he's awake.
I'm sorry your friends/family gave you false hope about STBXW popping her head back into your world and wanting to come back home. Sometimes it's best to have no window into her life simply to avoid these kind of things.
Your son needs to find some motivation soon. Whether it's to get himself mentally better or get to work... ideally both would be good! I fear that if you wait too long to nudge him, it will be even harder to get him moving forward in his life.
Any updates from your lawyer? I'm glad you were prepared to reply to her lawyer promptly. I wasn't surprised by anything you wrote as much of it was predicted a year ago. It's easier to see where things are headed when you're on the outside. I agree that you did the right thing by waiting for her to start the process and still preparing yourself for this to come. Even though you didn't want it. Don't settle for less than you deserve. Keep posting when you can.
Happy Father's Day to everyone! I'm one of the few of my cohort left here. I'm not sure myself why I keep visiting and occasionally posting about my rather boring life.
Life here on this shore continues pretty quiet. My L has written the "hello" letter to STBX's L and that's about all that's going on there I believe. I'm going through in my head what I'll say when the first meeting happens. Ideally we can sort things out in a fair fashion in a single meeting. Given the hourly billing rate of the lawyers, being simple and possibly not bothering to go through the numbers one at a time might be the best option. I have no clue though what the strategy or desires of the other side might be. There's really not much to fight over and what there is isn't complicated.
I was surprised the other day to get an email from STBX just after she put some money into the old joint account to cover a automatic annual payment that came out. I'd noticed the payment - it wasn't a lot and so I just covered it out of savings. It was nice of STBX to notice though and to cover it. I sent a polite one sentence (I can hear people gasping at the brevity) response back to her thanking her for the courtesy.
I do have absolutely no clue what's going on in her world though. Surprising I think because we do have a number of mutual acquaintances. I have no idea if she knows what is going on in my life either.
I thought I'd post today because it is Father's Day and these "anniversaries" do cause me to be thoughtful. Last year was the first Father's day I spent without my W by my side. I spent the day then with S22 and played mini-golf. On the agenda for today if the weather holds. She told me that she spent the day alone and in the city she grew up in but not visiting her own father. There was a grocery receipt that validated that. No clue on what she actually did. It doesn't matter.
I got a very nice card from D25 (she had a birthday) for Father's day and S22 and I will be heading out soon as well. We'll be having dinner in the village pub later. S22 is doing OK. He broiled up some steaks for our dinner last night and did a great job. He helps around the house a bit, not quite as much as I would like, but more than I might expect. Not sure how much, if any interaction he has with his mother. I'm pretty sure though that they have only seen each other a couple of times in the last 2 months. Sad in some ways because she is literally a 5 minute drive away (I believe) and I'm gone 14 hours a day.
In other news there's a 20 something who has started texting me almost daily lately. I used to be a bit of a father-figure to her and presumably still am but it is a bit weird especially when she sends me pictures that include her cleavage. I'm going to assume that it is all innocent though. I do laugh to think what the reaction of STBX would have been if we were still together and this was going on. She would have been much less than pleased. She was always quite possessive. There's no romance on the horizon for me. I do have a couple of good female friends who might become something more, or not. For a giggle I signed up on Match.com and looked around. There are a number of women on there of about my age and in my area. I then set my profile to hidden - not an avenue that I want to pursue right now. D25 agrees that it's probably best to get all the legal stuff sorted out before I consider anything else.
I start a couple of weeks of vacation this Thursday afternoon and hope to visit with some good friends and get some stuff done around the house. I also hope to get my little sloop out on the water for the first time in several years. I hope that she still floats and that the sails are ok. There will also probably be a certain amount of sitting around with a can of beer and a good book. I may be largely unsupervised but there is only so much excitement that I can take. It's funny in some ways how being a pretty boring and reliable guy works. I was chastised by the lady at the flower shop yesterday for being late picking up my roses and had to explain that yes, there were other things going on in my life that need to be dealt with <smile>.
I hope everyone is doing as well as they can. Time for me to head out for my usual boring and reliable walk around the village.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Andrew, you are always welcome here no matter the situation. Your life is far from boring and I enjoy reading about the things you are doing.
Be careful w/the young lady. Sounds like she may have a crush on you and may be interested in something a bit more than friendship, i.e., possibly down the road.
I think you are doing just fine and are right where you need to be at this time.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Hi Andrew, What I particularly like about this update is the sloop. It validates something that a friend of mine said about the separation/divorce process following a lengthy marriage. He said that at first you really don't know what to do, because you're so used to being a couple that you've forgotten what you used to like before you and your ex got together. So, in his experience, separation and divorce was a time of remembering what he used to like to do and also figuring out what new things he wanted to try out.
I think it's marvelous that you'll be out on the sloop with a book and adult beverage. I imagine you reading something thoughtful and fun in the bright sunshine, getting a lovely dose of vitamin D.
good for you!
xo
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
I was inspired to post today seeing that CaliGuy (waves) also posted an update.
My vacation thus far has been pretty good.
It had a bit of a rocky start when I had dinner with a good friend who unexpectedly got upset with me. Details are irrelevant. One thing that I think those of us who end up here learn in time is that the DB principles apply all through our lives. Two years ago I would have doubted myself and tried to "make it right". Now I just thanked them for their past friendship, wished them well and moved on. It did make me sad though - they were a good friend and I am still confused about what suddenly happened but know that perhaps I never will understand. Part of what DB is to me is the knowledge that there are so very many things in this world that I will never understand and that I shouldn't waste effort trying to. Sometimes when things get broken they shouldn't be fixed.
It's been raining here quite a lot. In parts of Ontario, Canada where I live we got 2 months worth of rain in about 6 hours last Thursday night. Quite a bit of flooding in the area but fortunately not in my own village. S22 and I reached out on Facebook offering assistance to anyone who needed it but it seemed that the actual impact was relatively minor. The rain has been sweeping through with heavy rains mixed with hail and strong winds and then bright sunshine. That means that even though I got the sloop out from under cover I spent more time bailing than fixing. I do still hope to get her out on the water this summer but it probably won't be during this vacation. There's a few minor repairs that I've identified that will keep me busy along with a bunch of stuff that needs doing around the house and garden. S22 and I also have tickets Friday to the theatre. I don't know if I can persuade him to wear the bow tie I got him for Christmas 2 years ago when the world was "normal".
The last couple of days have been pretty good. Yesterday and today I went for a couple of nice long walks (about 6 miles each time) and found that my mind does not spin nearly as much as it used to. There still is some spinning and probably always will be - hamsters I suppose. Yesterday I passed the time of day with a baby skunk from a reasonable distance.
Today S22 and I planned to go to one of the local farmer's markets. "20 something" asked if she could go along and she brought a female friend so the 4 of us had a nice day picking up fresh veg, fruit and meat. Right now the other 3 are off at a Christian Youth event while I am making my very first covered pie using rhubarb from my garden plus fresh berries from the farmer's market.
Even though part of me doesn't like the concept I've played around more with my match.com profile adding some pictures and content but it's still hidden. I don't think I'm quite ready to pull the trigger on that as of yet as (to me) it implies being able to make a commitment to some randomish stranger if things work out. It is all set though now when / if I choose to do that. For my profile I made sure to point out "Have all my own teeth" which is perhaps a plus in a rural area when you hit a certain age and also mentioned that I am a reasonably good cook and housekeeper. I figure I'll get the SIL army and perhaps D25 and "20 something" to review it before I post it publicly if I ever do. One thing that holds me back is the fact that once my profile is posted given that I live in a small area that it would be "very" obvious who I am and that I'm looking. I feel uncomfortable about that being as I still have ideas about gradually getting to know someone more "organically". Online dating to me seems to introduce artificial pressures.
I think I'm doing about as OK as could be expected. I like me, as I always have. Lots of other people like me too.
Oh - and no word from STBX - no clue what's going on in her life. S22 never mentions her either and nothing fresh from any lawyers.
The menu for the evening because Coly23 (waves) always likes to know what I'm cooking is a chicken stir-fry with fresh peppers and peas from the farmer's market. I've not done it before but am pretty confident that I'll muddle through.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Hey AP (waves back)! Dinner sounds fab! I love a good chicken stir fry and you know you really can't go wrong especially with some fresh from the farmers market veg! At the moment D and I are into courgetti spaghetti. Have you tried that as yet? Basically it is courgette cut to look like spaghetti but obviously much healthier. We have a spiraliser to do the job for us. Also cauliflower rice is a good alternative.
I was sorry to hear about your friend and the end of your friendship. Was this the friend who supported you right at the beginning of your separation? I know she got a little annoyed with you at times.. I think when we've been let down so badly by someone we love our ability to tolerate the behaviour of others is greatly reduced. And I think DB helps us see right through disingenuous people.
You sound like you have quite a following of young people at the moment! It's good because they keep you on your toes! I know my D and her friends certainly do. In fact they have asked me to join a party they were having in my house once but I politely declined and scuttled off to lock myself in my bedroom!
You really do sound happy AP and I'm looking forward to more updates from you!
Me - 47 H - 45 D-16 M - 6 years Separated - May 16
Don't leave me behind can't you see me I'm shining... (Years & Years - 'Shine')
I think sometimes people leave friendships because someone has outgrown the other
the dynamics are no longer the same --same things in R and M and especially when the MLCer goes out in replay and all growth is stunted while the LBS grows by leaps and bounds
maybe thats what happened with your friend, but I also understand it is painful and sad to let go of people you care about
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
One of the challenges with being more or less alone and on vacation is that I do run out of people to talk to. Thank you to anyone who has wandered by as I talk about my days. Once I am done with vacation the "journaling" will slow down again. One of the big things I miss about having someone by me is I don't really have anyone who I can share my thoughts with. S22 is rather closed and gets uncomfortable when I get introspective. He's rather like his mother that way only more-so. She did like talking about her own life though (but not her feelings) and after nearly 30 years the listening and related validation provided the basic conversational needs I had.
Happy Dominion Day / Canada Day to all those out there who are also celebrating all things Maple Syrup and moose related.
Yesterday I had the great pleasure of seeing the production of Treasure Island at the Stratford Festival here in Ontario, Canada. I've always enjoyed live theatre although I don't get out to see it very often. STBX was never a fan, she complained that especially with Shakespeare that she couldn't follow along with the dialogue. S22 went along with me and even though the production was aimed at a children's audience it was amazing and we both quite enjoyed it. I recommend anyone who is able to catch it to please do so. I do believe that there are a couple of people on here from this same general geographic area. If you are able to bring a child between 4 and 12 it will be even more fun. One of the things I loved about it was how they made the cast completely gender blind. Many of the the characters such as Dr. Livesey were played by female actors. Even though I generally prefer that a production not stray too far from the original work, this one was indeed inspired and certainly kept the spirit of Stevenson's book.
When we got home I checked the mail and there was an unexpected parcel from D24 containing a book of poems. I'm going to take a chance here because we shouldn't be citing non DB books but the book was called "Good Poems for Hard Times". I don't recall that Michele ever did a book of poetry so this isn't a direct conflict of the forum rules. I immediately contacted D24 and thanked her with I will admit, a tear or two in my eyes for her kindness. This will be a comfort to me for some time I am sure as I work through it. I don't tend to read a lot of poetry so will probably take this book in small bites as needed which I think it will be well suited for.
I had a nice dinner with the SIL army and my brothers out at my youngest brother's farm (S22 had other plans), ate a bit too much and got to spend some time carrying around my 1 year-old nephew who I am quite fond of. SIL2 suggested updating my still-hidden match.com profile to include a picture of us to show that I do indeed bond with children. According to SIL1 who still has some visibility of STBX via Facebook, there has been no apparent change in anything. She did mention to me that she had prodded STBX a couple of times a while ago saying that she hoped we would get back together and only got vague statements in return. I asked her not to do so going forward. I do expect that STBX and her guy are still a thing but what sort of thing I have no clue. We did talk a bit about the logistics of separation agreements and my SIL shared stories of friends and acquaintances where things ended up being rather unbalanced. I really don't know how mine will turn out nor at what speed it will progress. I'm certainly in no hurry although I would like to be able to close the entire chapter of this story and start a new one where our Hero is unfettered and seeks a new future. Until the settlement is decided on I think it best to not make many changes in my life.
When reading the program from the production of Treasure Island this morning, I was surprised to learn that Robert Louis Stevenson was a friend of William Henley who was also the inspiration for his character Long John Silver. Before I head off for my usual scone from the bakery and then dive into the laundry and house-cleaning (rainy day here plus first weekend of the month) I would like to leave you with this poem which has been very meaningful to me and I hope will provide some comfort to others on their own journeys.
Originally Posted By: William Ernest Henley
Out of the night which covers me, Black as the pit from pole to pole, I thank whatever gods may be For my unconquerable soul.
In the fell clutch of circumstance I have not winced nor cried aloud. Under the bludgeoning of chance My head is bloody, but unbowed.
Beyond this place of wrath and tears Looms but the Horror of the shade, And yet the menace of the years Finds, and shall find me, unafraid.
It matters not how strait the gate, How charged with punishments the scroll, I am the master of my fate: I am the captain of my soul.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Journaling - Just feeling thoughtful. Nothing much happening here.
Second last day of vacation. I didn't do a bunch of the things I'd intended to do although I did get the sloop cleaned up during one of the breaks in the weather last week. Yesterday could perhaps have been a good day to take her out but I had a bout of stomach flu that made it seem to be a good idea to not stray too far from home.
A few days ago I paid for and activated my match.com profile. Got a fair number of views in fact and contacted one lady - no response. I've put it back to hidden - a waste of money perhaps but I just felt so darned uncomfortable about the process. On another site they mention the "pick me" dance and it felt like that to me. It seems so arbitrary and shallow - like shopping for a painting for the wall more than finding someone to share your life with. What bothered me the most was finding myself judging the suitability of others for me.
Last year at this time I was very heavily into the "pick me" dance with my W thinking that her A had been over for some time (it wasn't). One of the things that has come over me possibly triggered by my brief foray into online dating is the sense of the surreal that I still feel from time to time. It's rather worse right now. Waking up yesterday and again today I had to remind myself that yes - She's gone - I'm alone - and this is my life now and will be for the foreseeable future.
Next month in August will be both what would have been our wedding anniversary and is also the anniversary of my first vacation spent alone. That one involved a suicidal episode on my part. It was a very dark day and I almost did something that would have made a number of people very sad. A friend of mine who was chatting with me on the weekend remarked that being on vacation alone must be weird and difficult. Yes, yes it is after so long making plans and accommodating the wishes of another it does make me feel rather lost.
It's not a bad life. In fact in many ways it's rather good. Certainly better than many people have it regardless of their marital status. It's just not the life I would have chosen. My dark days are only grey now, not black like they were. I do still try to find one piece of Joy to cherish each and every day. There is a lot to be thankful for.
Having S22 here is also odd. Perhaps because he knows it hurts he never mentions his mother. On the other hand being home and around him on vacation I see no indication that he interacts with her at all. Perhaps there are text messages but that's it. For Pete's sake - she's only a 5 minute drive away and works a morning shift when S22 is normally asleep anyway. Has he cut her out of his life? Is it the other way around? No clue and yes, none of my business. Our own interactions have been good. Having him here does remind me of his mother a lot - they have similar personalities and of course he was "our" son but generally he preferred interacting with his mother to me.
One major thing that I tackled was just about the last un-touched domain of the house since my W left. The laundry room. STBX was a bit of a pack-rat and hoarder and the laundry room was one of the places that was impacted. When it got filled she just started filling another room. I'd done some basic purging / organizing about a year ago when packing up her things into boxes but never really dealt with much else. On the list for my vacation was to repair a cabinet that had been behind a pile of stuff for a couple of decades and that when we moved in all those years ago I had just tacked a piece of cardboard over the hole "temporarily". Well I removed it and what I had thought was just some missing boards was in fact 2 missing drawers. So - down to the workshop I went and built 2 new drawers with drawer fronts that matched the existing carpentry. I'm rather pleased with them. I also went through all of the bottles and shelves and did a thorough purge. Part bottles of cleaner that I will never use got drained, rinsed and set out for recycling. For those who had been "playing the home game" and who remember my adventures in emptying the big freezer you will be amused that I also discovered that I own a rather industrial sized juicer, some broiling pans that I didn't know I had and a waffle maker as well. I also have a life-time supply of stain remover - why in heavens name did we have a need for so many bottles of that stuff ...
I took an "after" picture and SnapChatted it down to D25 and she remarked that she had never seen the laundry room so clean which I confirmed that yes - it had never been that clean.
There continues to be nothing from any lawyers. My expectation is that my former W is dragging her feet on doing the required but actually un-necessary financial disclosure paperwork. She was never one for filling out forms. There is a strong temptation to call her and see if we can get things sorted out but I presume that it is best to just let the process go on. We both know roughly the financial positions of the others although I have a lottery ticket that I haven't checked yet. There are no custody issues - in fact I wish she "would" spend some time with S22 / D25. There's not a lot of assets involved and hopefully she's not looking for support. I'm making do - but supporting S22 is a fair drag on my budget. We are both probably doing about as well financially separately as we were together.
Ah well - as the song goes "the sun's too bright, the sky's too blue" - "gonna take this heart-break and tuck it away - save it for a rainy day". The sky is indeed blue, a nice change from what it was so I'm going to head off to the farmer's market. Then this afternoon I'm taking S22 over to the local blood-donor clinic. I've been not allowed to for many years because of my heart-attack so it's good that he's kept it up.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Thanks for stopping by the Offering Prayer thread and for the Canada Day greetings. I've read much of your thread and it sounds like you've got the GAL taken care of.
I grieve for you as I see that you are getting close to the end.
I'll make sure keep in touch. It's great to have a CDN perspective. FYI I'm in the heart of the GTA.
M:50 W:53 MR:20 D:21 S:17 S:11 BD-Sept 2015 Suspected PA Sept 2015-Confronted W & OM Dec 2015 Actually EA In house Sep:Jan/16-May 2016 W moved out:May 22 2016 OM-Intro Oct/17-On scene July/Aug 2017
Well done on clearing out the laundry room. Another step in the right direction!
Wrt S22, I think it's safe to say who knows what goes on in his head! He sounds like a typical young man who needs to be prodded to take any action! I bet he has a stream of texts from his Mum which he hasn't responded to. I think I remember you had the same issues when he didn't live with you. How many days did you have to wait for him to respond if ever!!
Also with the dating. Maybe you aren't ready as yet that is why it all seems strange. Take your time AP, that special Lady is out there somewhere and it will happen when the time is right!
(((AP)))
Me - 47 H - 45 D-16 M - 6 years Separated - May 16
Don't leave me behind can't you see me I'm shining... (Years & Years - 'Shine')
I'll make sure keep in touch. It's great to have a CDN perspective. FYI I'm in the heart of the GTA.
BigyBiz - My usual office is in Mississauga but I also have an office at Church and Bloor that I go to a couple of times a month - a big building with lots of companies in it.
When my W and I were first married we lived at Yonge and Carlton but then moved to where I live now about 150 km to the north-west to the area that I grew up in.
There are a few of us on here from Canada and even from Ontario I believe. That's helpful in some ways because the law is different in different jurisdictions.
Thanks for the visit and the kind words.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
AP: I live 15 minutes from your downtown office. I'd love to connect - I know I have lots to learn from you.
M:50 W:53 MR:20 D:21 S:17 S:11 BD-Sept 2015 Suspected PA Sept 2015-Confronted W & OM Dec 2015 Actually EA In house Sep:Jan/16-May 2016 W moved out:May 22 2016 OM-Intro Oct/17-On scene July/Aug 2017
Glad to see you're still posting/journaling. I'm enjoying reading your story.
Any progress on DS getting a job? I don't think him living with you will be considered as a factor when it comes to finances since he is over 18. My child support will end as my sons turn 18.
How nice of DD to send you the book of poems. It's clear that she's concerned about you, in a good way. When do you get to see her again? I know you visited her not too long ago. Does she come to see you at all?
This time of year is a little rough for me as it marks 10 years since my XH started his affair. Time certainly does fly by!!! I'm in a better place now, but still affected by the mess I lived through so long ago.
When you're waiting for dating, it won't feel so weird. I actually met my husband through a dating site. of course, we had mutual friends and that helped things out, but it's not totally unusual these days!!!
dream! So wonderful to hear from you. I know from divorced friends that the pain never goes away especially if there has been a betrayal like an affair. A good friend of mine has just also gone through 10 years since she divorced her own H and every time we chat I still hear the hurt.
My D25 is a very special woman with a very kind heart. The book of poems is being very much enjoyed. Normally I am a quick reader but with poetry I slow down and try to chew and enjoy each line. I'm about 1/3 of the way through the book and it is a very good collection. We're organizing for me to go down to visit her and her H towards the end of September.
S22 is still rather stalled but there was a funny - yet slightly troubling but positive interaction this evening. You may recall my reference to "20 something" who happens to be one of S22's best friends in a very platonic way. Today being my last day of vacation I was working through the last of the household chore list. One of my (achieved) goals was to scrub the house from top to bottom and 20 something wandered into the house while I was doing my last load of laundry. She was wearing short shorts and a crocheted "cover" over top of her bra. She asked me my opinion of her outfit and I pointed out that perhaps she should have something on more substantial but that I thought she looked good while very firmly keeping my eyes elevated. Sigh - the troubles of being a lonely old guy I suppose <smile>.
There is a - in my mind small - possibility that 20 something is actually interested in me but there's all sorts of danger lurking there not the least of which is that she and S22 are best friends. Absolutely not something I will chase. Perhaps because we've known each other since she was little and the fact that I am very demonstrably "safe" she perhaps feels more comfortable with me(?) I am still human though and it's been 15 months since I've even held the hand of a woman.
Anyhoodles - the positive bit was a bit of delicate nagging that I did with 20 something and S22 about him getting his driver's license pointing out that there is a car available to him if he does. Both 20 something and S22 agreed that this was a great plan and that they were working on it. Then they went off swimming in the local river. And no - I'm quite sure that 20 something and S22 are not an item despite being close friends.
I do know that legally speaking that supporting S22 has no bearing on any sort of settlement. What I am hoping though is that STBX will be compassionate and as I asked her in a letter back in January, that she'll allow me to have a future and not request support. In turn I told her that I would continue to support S22 until he is independent. She seems to be abiding by the terms of that letter including "letting me" finish paying off her car which was finally done a couple of weeks ago. I do want S22 to be independent sooner rather than later, but for S22 and not for me (mostly). STBX is (or at least was) a kind and compassionate person and despite everything that happened we never had any real friction. Even a recent email interaction about a minor banking issue was polite and she took the initiative in making sure that I was not inconvenienced. Yes, I am angry at her and hurt but I've never struck out at her in any way, even emotionally and never will. I wish her happiness in her choices even if I disagree with them. If she chooses to take me to the full extent of the legal guidelines I will resist but I will still survive as will S22. We'll manage. I joked with D25 a while ago that if the settlement goes that way that S22 and I will end up living in a cardboard box under the shop next door. D25 assured me that she didn't think that would happen and I suggested that would be because we couldn't find a cardboard box big enough <sad smile>.
So - I did rather well for walking on my vacation. I did close to 70km of walking over the 2 weeks. I didn't lose any weight perhaps thanks to taking a bunch of AndrewP time with good books and cold beer. I do feel refreshed but not quite recharged. This is really my very first "single guy" solo vacation and I believe I did ok. As tough as it is especially for those earlier in their journey than I am, there is indeed a Far Shore.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
ForGump - Thanks for the visit and the hello. It's been a long time. Try to keep well my friend. I know that it's tough.
Journaling.
Exactly 1 year ago today I woke up in an empty house. While I'm no longer the person who got down on his knees and begged his W to stay and that if she must leave to please please return, I'm still the same man.
I live life mostly day to day but have been making some longer term plans which will include going down to visit D25 and her H and assorted critters in late September. I'm thinking that I may take myself to the Caribbean in the late winter for a week or so if finances allow. I'm getting comfortable enough in my own skin now that I think that I can do that alone and enjoy it.
Coming up on the 1 year alone mark I have gotten introspective which I'm sure is no surprise to anyone who is following along on the home game. One thing that I've done from time to time but put a more serious effort into recently is to try to understand infidelity from the other side. There are astoundingly few resources out there about that which is probably no big surprise. People who are actively engaged in an affair are unlikely to "seek help", nor to be introspective and journal on the internet. The resources here in the postings by AmyC that are found in the recommended readings and those bits of Sandi2's story that she shares from time to time help with the understanding as well.
While I think I understand a lot more about what happened and why, one thing that I also know is that me understanding it doesn't matter. Perhaps it will for a future relationship where I can be more aware of the risk factors and warning signs. My old W is gone and is not coming back.
I really do have no idea what is going on in her life. My SIL let me know from time to time about what they see on Facebook but really, nothing of note is visible in that venue. I don't know if she and her guy (I've stopped referring to him as OM) are still together or if they are getting their "happily ever after". Again, it doesn't matter. Even though as I write it, I do so with a certain sense of the melancholy, it is a true statement. What's going on there doesn't impact me. As I wrote on Westo's thread, compartmentalization is a way that people who are engaged in an affair deal with things. I've realized that for me as the LBS, compartmentalization is how I am now dealing with my former W. She's just someone that I used to know and yes, someone that I loved. Do I still love her? I still love the person that I thought she was but that person doesn't exist any more. I've had a year of going through the stages of grief and will always be sad but I'm recovering.
In terms of actual news, S22 spent an afternoon with his mother rather to my surprise. I only knew because he was out when I got home from being out for dinner by myself and then his mother dropped him off while I was getting ready for my next day. Just a drive-by and quick open of the door at the end of the drive. I expect that she, like me, is reluctant to actually see the other. S22 seemed quite cheerful though and appeared to have had a good time. This is good. Yes, it does make me a bit jealous, but this isn't about me. It's about a mother and her son. This may be the first time they've seen each other in a couple of months despite living only 5 minutes apart from each other. But - I could also be wrong about this. I don't pry into S22's life especially where it concerns his mother. On his side he's very careful I think to not mention her around me.
The legal stuff is grinding along slowly. After about a month of waiting the lawyer on the other side wrote to my lawyer agreeing to go the collaborative route and that she would get in touch with her client to get documents sorted out and whatever. I'm hoping that the lawyers don't make things too complicated. There's not really anything much to fight over, my STBXW should have a pretty clear idea about my finances and assets since they used to also be her's and I honestly don't really care about what she's taken, nor any savings she may have accumulated. If there were assets that she has that she has hidden, which I doubt that there are any of any substance, I also don't care. I just want as clean of a break as possible and to be able to carry on with my life unencumbered and keep building and updating the AndrewP that I am.
I'm still reading along the stories of my friends here and will keep posting updates as appropriate.
Good thoughts and wishes to all of you.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
I like the olace you are in at the moment. You still love your W but she dies not impact your day to say decisions and thoughts too much.
It's interesting about compartmentalising your life. I can see how this can be a good way to help towards detaching and I can see my H was/is very good at this. We have been put into a box on a dusty shelf just in case he needs us as some point but for the moment we are of no use. I need to get to that stsge too.
Happy weekend AP!! X
Me - 47 H - 45 D-16 M - 6 years Separated - May 16
Don't leave me behind can't you see me I'm shining... (Years & Years - 'Shine')
Well - first meeting with STBX and the legal teams is being set up for 3 weeks from now.
Currently terrified. I've been preparing for this day for over 500 days now ever since she first told me that she was leaving (and then didn't go anywhere for months).
Ideally I hope that we can get everything sorted out in this one meeting. There's not a lot to fight over. Stuff she wanted, she took already. The kids are grown. The house isn't worth a lot and her guy has a nicer one.
Wish me luck. I am truly terrified of seeing her in person and really don't know how I will react.
Oh and what would have been our 28th anniversary is next Saturday. How the h-e-double hockysticks (Canadian joke) did we ever end up here?
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Hi Andrew, well I would like to say that I genuinely feel that you have come a very long way since joining the site - so, good for you.
In terms of that meeting, I can imagine how you must feel. The only thing I would aim for is to behave in a way that you will look back on in ten years time and think - yep, I was happy with myself there.....that's all...
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
You will do just fine. She's going to be feeling the same way about meeting you face to face as well.
Make sure you have all of your documentation in hand, as well as a list of anything else that you think needs to be addressed. It's best to write this stuff down because once you are there, your memory may go poof! because of all of the anxiety and being nervous.
Listen, keep telling yourself that she's just someone you once knew and now you need to wrap up this business deal that's gone south. She isn't the same woman that you fell in love w/many years ago, i.e., she is a stranger to you now...so be civil, smile and nod when necessary, and try to keep your emotions in check.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Blech! Holiday here in much of Canada today. I'm doing some prep for S22's birthday next week going through 23 years of photos. So many smiles. So much love. WTF??? This combined with this coming Saturday being my second "anniversary" that she'll have been gone for plus the legal stuff coming up shortly is making me sad. I just need to power through.
I feel slightly guilty not selecting any pictures for the collage that include his mother but "It's my party". I have no idea what her plans might be for his birthday and must confess myself surprised that either she's not made any or perhaps S22 just isn't mentioning anything.
I think I've come to terms with the fact that this will always hurt but it's more the hurt of an old wound. I could perhaps try to purge her completely from my history as if she never existed but that's not the reality. She did exist. If on some future date someone looks back in all the old pictures that I have, they'll see smiles and Joy that used to exist but that are no more. There are no pictures of her around the house any more and haven't been since January. They were only up that long because I wanted S22 to not see me scrubbing his mother from my life when he was home for Christmas. Looking through the pictures was difficult as I'm sure everyone here can imagine.
S22 is still struggling a lot with depression. I didn't help things by giving him a list of goals such as getting his driver's license etc recently. Since like his mother he refuses to talk in person about difficult topics I emailed it to him. In it I also made a suggestion that he check with his mother about seeing if he could get a job with "her guy" who owns a small distribution company. S22 was really depressed after that but it might not be related to the letter or contents. We did have a good day yesterday when my 1 year-old nephew was here for the afternoon. Nothing like a toddler to both brighten your day and to utterly exhaust you.
On a positive note, my over-working imagination tells me that one of the clerks at the bank has been flirting with me. I go in just before closing (being boring and reliable) and she seems to always make sure that her window is open. She's divorced with two young boys and we'll usually chat for a few minutes about life and kids and stuff. Being as she has provided me with financial advice she is pretty familiar with my own situation.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Hey AP, sorry it was a bit tough going through old photographs and also the upcoming second anniversary since stbx has been gone. All these things seem to come at us at once sometimes which can be very overwhelming.
What have you got planned to S22's birthday anyway? Interesting about the lady at the bank too. A little flirting didn't hurt anyone. Enjoy!!!
Me - 47 H - 45 D-16 M - 6 years Separated - May 16
Don't leave me behind can't you see me I'm shining... (Years & Years - 'Shine')
Thanks for the visit Coly! I was going to make a cake for him - I do a pretty good carrot cake but chose to get a chocolate cake from my friend at the bake-shop instead. I'll probably cook up a boring and reliable couple of steaks and veg. I'm hoping to get D25 on the phone to help sing happy-birthday to him.
He and a friend have the same birthday and they have no specific plans beyond "have a party" so I've suggested that they could hold it at our house. Not sure if they will or not - I'm flexible. We have lots of room so nobody has to drive if they have had too much to drink. I picked him up a year's subscription to watch American Football which is one of his interests. I already got the Chromecast that is a necessary bit of tech for him to watch on the TV with his buddies. Don't tell him about the present though OK?
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Both my favourite cake flavours carrot and chocolate!
I hope S22's birthday party doesn't turn into one of my D's house parties! She has been banned from having one of those for a very long time! Hell, freeze and over are the words that come to mind!!
My lips are sealed! I won't let on about the fab pressies you have for S22!!
Looking forward to hearing all about it!!
Me - 47 H - 45 D-16 M - 6 years Separated - May 16
Don't leave me behind can't you see me I'm shining... (Years & Years - 'Shine')
I am just poking my nose in your thread, Andrew, and I want to read more when I have more time. But, I just wanted to say hi from O-town, ON and it's nice to see someone presumably not too far from me on the boards =).
BD#1: "marriage is over" 9/14/2016 H in basement 24/7 with EX/OM BD#2: 3/20/2017 I plan to move out "soon" I LRT me: 42, H, 41, EX/OM, 37 D 10, Son 7 M to H = 20 years EX/OM moved in 10 years ago
Surv1ve - thanks for the visit. My S22 used to live in your city and I would drive down to visit him there. It was a long drive but worth it.
CHERRY!!!! - I posted a "hello" over on your thread.
----------------------
Well - today is what would have been my 28th wedding anniversary. At this time 28 years ago I was nervously up and shining my shoes while stupidly wearing my tuxedo shirt. Nearly smeared shoe polish all over it. Tomorrow it will have been 29 years since a good friend brought a woman he knew from work out to the regular "Saturday with the guys" thing and who kept me close from that day forward until she found someone "better". I have a small smile thinking that it took her more than half her life to do that and I still think that she didn't find someone better.
People around me suggest that she's either regretting her choices now or that she will over time. I don't know about that but it doesn't matter to me. She's on her own journey without me.
I'm doing .... ok. Certainly a lot better than I did a year ago when I was full of drama. Will I even remember this day next year? Probably. I was the one who would remember the birthdays and anniversaries. I don't know how some husbands can possibly forget.
I was asked yesterday by a very good friend if I had to do it all over again would I still have married the woman formerly known as my wife. Knowing what I know now - no. Knowing what I did then - absolutely. Time only marches forwards in this Newtonian universe. There is no going back, no Mulligans and because of that, there should be no regrets. I used to have times when I would regret that at my age there is no "starting over". Marrying again, starting a family, erasing the past and building something new - it can't happen. What I can do and am doing though is to build anew on the foundations that I have which yes, do include many years as a devoted husband and father married to what we will for the sake of argument think of as a devoted wife and mother. That chapter is closed now though but it is part of the book of my life.
Time to keep writing fresh songs and stories. I noticed on another thread a couple of the ladies here talking about their ideal man (waves). It's surprising to me now that my eyes are open how many mature and kind-hearted unattached women there are out there. My friend said that her building was full of them so I suggested she put up posters to advertise my availability <smile>. There's a charity dinner coming up at the end of next month that I always go to. I think I'll buy two tickets. I have no specific prospects for a date for it but S22 would probably be happy to go. Or perhaps ... you never know. It's a good cause and I'll have fun no matter what. Maybe I should ask 20-Something - that would get the gossips going
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
I've often wondered about an LBS dating thread, Andrew...comes with guarantees of good folks who are committed to M and have managed to GAL!
Unfortunately, most folks seem to be rather far away from my little patch on the East Coast of England....sigh.
Happy Anniversary though for all the joys and love and learning from those 29 years. The fact that this last chapter of our Ms has been so rough does not change all of the many blessings we enjoyed too x
Me: 53 H:38 T:20 M:14 BD ILYB etc 10/15, H diagnosed severe depression S 1/16 PA 4/16 H filed 1/17
I wonder about that, too, Treasur... but, I've been reading SO much about "love" and how we get together and this idea of "locks and keys". People prone to MLC in later life are a certain way and the people who will become the LBS have a certain set of tendences, too. We LBS's wouldn't have been attracted to each other 20 years ago... our chemistry's don't match. We don't set off the psychological opportunity to "go home" and rewrite the old story.
It's true, too. I think about the people who were interested in me who seemed as stable and steady as they come and who thought I was the bees knees... I tended to reject them. The ones that pursued me wildly -- INTERESTED. The ones who were interested and then not interested -- INTERESTED. Even my first boyfriend, I was kind of "MEH" until he cheated on me and then I NEEDED him to love me. Anyway, don't mean to thread hijack!
BD#1: "marriage is over" 9/14/2016 H in basement 24/7 with EX/OM BD#2: 3/20/2017 I plan to move out "soon" I LRT me: 42, H, 41, EX/OM, 37 D 10, Son 7 M to H = 20 years EX/OM moved in 10 years ago
S22 is now officially S23. We had a lovely dinner together of "man food" (steak, potatoes and obligatory veg) and D25 and her H participated via Skype in the happy birthday singing and virtual cake. The real cake was very delicious. The baker put some coffee into the mix which she said - and it appeared to - adds to the flavour of the chocolate. I'd hoped that S23 would have taken the entire leftovers to the party he was off to but he only took a few slices. I'm hoping that his friends will demolish the rest over the next few days and save me from it.
"Twenty Something" who also turned 23 yesterday was holding the party and I got a snapchatted picture of the two of them looking very drunk in the middle of the evening. For me, I had a quiet evening watching a movie and skipping the usual Friday night wine so that I could be available for my son in case he needed a ride home. He said that he'd probably crash at his friend's place but appreciated the sentiment. It's mid-morning now and he's still not home but I'm not too worried.
He quite appreciated his present from me and I think is looking forward to unlimited sports watching for the next year. I had been worried - even thought it's none of my concern - about whether his mother would have done anything for him. I did see though on Thursday late afternoon that he went over to the village that she lives in and was there for about 1/2 hour. No clue if it was pre-planned or not or if he got dinner and cake because he seemed to create the usual amount of dishes. I did peek in his room when I gathered up the dirty dishes last night and there was a card from his mother and her parents in his room. I'm glad that she made the effort and my jealousy isn't too bad. He came home with a mix-pack of 8 different beer so that must have been his birthday present from her. I didn't ask and he never mentioned anything about seeing his mother. I expect mostly out of consideration for my feelings. He does have a kind heart.
One bit of intel that this has given me is that she presumably is at least keeping up the appearance of living in her flat above her store and not with her guy. The reason why this is important to me is that on Wednesday afternoon we'll be having our "Collaborative Law" meeting which I'm terrified of as I've written before. I was listening to an interview with Admiral Stavridis on Bloomberg a few days ago (yes I'm that exciting) and he had an interesting comment about negotiating. He was talking about North Korea and perhaps there are parallels here and said to "expect the unexpected". Very wise words I think. If anyone else out there is a reading sort I understand that he has some great books on leadership. I have at least one of them on my Christmas list for D25 who works at a book store.
Since she's either no longer in a relationship with her guy or is keeping it quiet or is happy with something casual that decreases some of my leverage in the negotiations I think. I've found lots of ducks and have attempted to line them up. I know all my facts and figures and have talked to a good friend who went through a very nasty divorce and he's quizzed me on various issues that might come up so that I can form my responses and opinions. The odds are non-zero but I think incredibly low that she'll ask to call the whole thing off and come home.
Fortunately I'm in no particular hurry since the status quo is relatively comfortable to me right now so if she delays things I'll just point out that it will only add up the legal fees and try to get some agreement on some minor issues like abandoned property and some banking stuff at least.
I'll probably post again on Wednesday. I'm glad that I have this outlet to journal where people are actually listening.
Well - time to organize the banking, flower shop visit and groceries. I may buy some new curtains today and do a trip to the dump to get rid of the old ones and some empty paint cans. It's supposed to be nice weather today so there's yard work to be done although it just got very cloudy in the last few minutes. The cats are snoozing recovering from their own trauma yesterday of the annual vet visit where I got them micro chipped. Something I should have done years ago. There was a bit of a hassle at the vet because STBX had changed the address on our account to her new address and it seems had been rather snippy to the clinic staff when they were trying to organize the girls' annual visit. They were relieved when I explained things and they split the profile out. I'm rather surprised that STBX hadn't done that but I suspect that it is all part of the package of not giving anyone any details of things. For me it was easy. "My ex wife and her dog moved out" was all that was required.
Well - have a fabulous day everyone and whatever feelings of calm you can send me for Wednesday will be appreciated.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
I am glad to read that you, your son and you daughter & her H had a nice time celebrating his birthday. I'm sure he was tickled w/the gift you gave him. It's difficult to know what to get them when they are at that age.
I'm also glad to read that you had the "girls" micro chipped. You never know what may happen and you definitely want to know that they are protected every way possible. Also, I'm glad you took care of the profile at the vet's.
Andrew, you've covered all your bases the best you can. There is no telling what she may or may not come up with...I'm hoping that she'll just go w/the flow and help you in finalizing things. It's very sad when you see them carrying on this way. My separation was as crazy and nasty as it gets...but the day of the divorce was very easy and I breathed a sign of relief when I walked away. I knew I had done everything I could to salvage the mess. You've done all you can do and that's what counts.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Glad your S had a good birthday and I'm keeping my fingers and toes (and eyes!) crossed that all goes well with the meeting on Wednesday. Try not to worry about it too much and have a relaxing weekend.
((AP))
Me - 47 H - 45 D-16 M - 6 years Separated - May 16
Don't leave me behind can't you see me I'm shining... (Years & Years - 'Shine')
I would love to hear what happened at the meeting, if you have space and energy. I may have one of these meetings in the future, and I want to be as prepared as I can.
BD#1: "marriage is over" 9/14/2016 H in basement 24/7 with EX/OM BD#2: 3/20/2017 I plan to move out "soon" I LRT me: 42, H, 41, EX/OM, 37 D 10, Son 7 M to H = 20 years EX/OM moved in 10 years ago
Thank you for notifying me about my email address showing up in an old posting...but it's okay...it's very old one and people can attempt to contact me, but it won't work. LOL!
I also noticed that I can't remove the other email address or remove the thread because I wasn't a moderator way back then.
Well - it was a good thing that I "expected the unexpected".
Warning - long post.
The pre-meeting I requested was largely a bust as most of it was spent correcting documents that the clerk had mis-typed and my lawyer standing over her telling her how to use her computer.
I did manage to get a few minutes to ask about the agenda, room layout but pretty much nothing on strategy or getting the outcome I wanted. I believe that my lawyer was just wanting to fill out the forms, come to an agreement that matches the guidelines and move on. I had previously provided a document with my points and question for the pre-meeting to her but am quite sure she never saw it. She did say that she'd "glanced at it".
My lawyer was also upset with me asking about the rules for withdrawing from the collaborative process and also when I mentioned that I was perfectly willing to walk away from the table if I wasn't presented with an acceptable deal. I think she was wanting me to be a client who just went along and didn't make a fuss. To mis-quote Tweety-Bird "She don't know me very well do she". She kept pointing out multiple times that if I went to court that I would lose which may well be true. But that doesn't mean to me that you give up without trying. She also wasn't happy when I pointed out that I could live with the status quo.
The meeting itself started out reasonably ok with occasional laughter etc. The lawyers tried to spend a bunch of time playing therapist about S23's situation which I had to put a stop to. They also got into quite the mire talking about what date to value my pensions and other assets on to which I had to point out that we were chasing after things that were of less value than the fees would be to discuss.
The first big flare point was me mentioning the "draining" of the bank account which caused STBX to turn quite red and state that that I had "crossed a boundary". I did back-pedal a bit being the wuss that I am and we moved on.
I had hoped to get things resolved in one meeting but it was soon apparent that wasn't going to happen. The other side was not prepared. Hadn't filled out the forms, didn't know what they wanted etc, didn't have a bunch of the documents. I nicely agreed to send over copies of STBX's tax forms etc.
As we were starting to wrap up, the other lawyer started pushing me on a value for the house and what I thought an appropriate settlement on it would be. I brought up the prior proposed settlement from January which caused quite the eye flicker. I'm 90% sure she knew nothing about it. When she pushed a bit harder I stupidly (perhaps) referenced it and pointed out that there was no need to settle on the house because the guy that my ex ran off with had a lovely home.
Well - that caused STBX to turn beet red, state that I had crossed a line and storm out followed by her lawyer. My lawyer then proceeded to chew me out and then left to consult with her colleague. They both came back in STBX having left the building and chewed me out together for a while. I was able to point out that I was just making a point about the lack of need for handing over money and then got a bit weepy as I went through the timeline of my sitch. Both lawyers pushed that we both should be going to therapy. I let them know that I had already and that it helped me deal with suicidal times but that STBX had no interest in it and didn't feel that she needed it.
My lawyer told me later that the other lawyer had been told that OM only came into the picture "after" she had left home. I did advise that I had lots of evidence of that not being the case.
So - next meeting scheduled for a couple of weeks from now. I'm not looking forward to it. I just finished digging out some financial documents for the other side that they didn't have ready access to being a cooperative sort of guy that I am. I did tell my lawyer that I would be happy to entertain a counter-proposal and that the other side should in general have all the facts. I did feel that I was being asked to carry the ball for both sides during this meeting.
I'm pretty sure that my lawyer isn't happy with me but that's not a big problem for me. We did agree that she perhaps needs a mechanism to get me to STFU.
I think that STBX was surprised that I stood up for myself as much as I did. Historically she would roll right over me and I would do the "whatever you think is best dear" thing. I did toss out a couple of truth darts such as for S23 that "I do not abandon family".
Am I truly surprised at how things turned out? Not really. I am though p!ssed and stressed about it.
As far as the relationship between STBX and her guy - I have no further info on that. She mentioned several times that she is living in a small apartment which I'd pretty much known anyway. Not that it actually matters. She certainly didn't seem to have any interest in making up with me and probably really doesn't now that I appear to have a backbone.
I don't think everything is going well in Princess-Fairy-Land especially now that she's gotten a dose of reality. I do confess myself disappointed and rather saddened. I had hoped to get this over with in one session but that was overly optimistic I knew given that the lawyers want to do paper-work and drive up the bill - and yes - to make sure that their client's best interests are represented.
I think that this is going to be a long haul.
Thoughts and opinions and yes, even a 2X4 especially from the lawyerly types in the audience or others would be welcome.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Yes, were I your lawyer I would have been annoyed with you too. As a fellow sufferer, I understand the temptation to get those digs in wherever you can. I just imagine how much worse she would have felt if faced with a cool, calm, and collected Andrew who was informative, funny, breezy and ready for business. Bet he would have been a lot harder for her to deal with and you would have left the meeting with a happier Andrew, lawyer, and maybe fewer billable hours with an actual agreement.
How about next time you write out all the snark ahead of time and put it in your pocket. When you feel like saying it, remind yourself how above it all you are now.
You still rule and I love your updates either way.
The funny personable Andrew was there for most of the meeting. There was no way that I would have gotten an agreement today though. The other side was completely unprepared and had no documents to share nor any sort of proposal. Her lawyer had never (I believe) seen the settlement proposal either otherwise she wouldn't have been shocked by it much less when I stated my reasoning which was in the document.
My lawyer actually said that she thought it was going well right until it blew up. In my defense how could I know that my ex had lied to her lawyer much less be offended by me pointing out that she had someone else who could provide for her more luxuriously than I could.
As far as my darts go, I think the single one I cast had no impact.
My original plan had been to try to keep the digging into details to a minimum and to take the entire counter offer on board before responding. I failed there by allowing myself to be badgered into responding to a single issue.
Hopefully at the next meeting if it happens they will be more prepared as will my own lawyer who I was disappointed in for her lack of preparation. I don't know how my ex will deal with the fact that she was caught in such a significant lie and that she was withholding significant documents. She has a history of avoiding dealing with tough issues.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
I think a bit of 'snark' is ok, Andrew, without going to war. My STBXH has stolen money and lied to his own L. (He now admits that). It is uncomfortable for him to look at some of the facts of his own actions. I get that, but it isn't our job anymore to soothe and protect our spouses. We got fired from the job, right? Like your W, my H has withheld documents and not prepared info. In our M, I always did the admin...well, not my job anymore to do it for his D. Fortunately, my L is better...
I guess what matters is you focusing as logically as you can on what you need and want. But it isn't easy, I know.
Me: 53 H:38 T:20 M:14 BD ILYB etc 10/15, H diagnosed severe depression S 1/16 PA 4/16 H filed 1/17
I think you handled the meeting quite well considering everything that came about. A large majority of the mlcers will not be prepared for meetings to settle up finances, etc., for a divorce. They just won't do the work and ultimately, it is left to us to do the difficult work of getting things together and being the properly prepped individual when negotiating.
The mlcer has tends to think that everything will go their way and that we will roll over and give them anything and everything we ask for. Why? Because in their minds, we love them to bits and will do anything to smooth the way and hopefully if we give the bank account to them, that maybe, just maybe, down the road we think that they will reconsider and reconcile. I like the fact that you are standing firm on your finances and your home. She walked, she will need to deal w/the consequences of her actions.
I will be very surprised if you get this wrapped in a second meeting. Most of the time, it takes more than a couple of meetings to finally get things done, i.e., agreed upon, signed and sealed. I hope, that in your case, things will move along quickly so that you can put this to rest and move on w/your life and not have to deal w/the mlc monster any longer.
As for the "snarking"...I understand...but try to keep them to a minimum and keep your focus more on what you want and the end result.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
The reality of the situation is that it is irrelevant what sort of house her AP has or what kind of life he lives.
I'm surprised the lawyers on both sides went forward with an expensive meeting that was clearly premature. The time to meet to resolve these things is after the disclosures and proposals have been made and the horse-trading is ready to begin.
I suppose I'm not surprised that she wasn't ready, though isn't she the one who wanted this? Mine is completely incapable of producing any information or proposals on his own. Until he asks me for a laundry list of things requested by his lawyer I will know that he has not been to one.
Since this isn't what you want and is not likely to be her allowing things to simply transfer in accordance with the status quo, which you indicate is good for you, you might just want to sit tight and insist on proof that she is ready to go the next time before you waste your time and money showing up.
Thanks everyone. The meeting minutes arrived around lunch and I've sent back my corrections (yes I have my own copy of Roberts Rules of Order) along with the secondary documents and numbers that were on my "to do" list.
OwnIt - Thanks for the input - I just sent a follow-up email to my lawyer stating that it was my expectation at the next meeting to be presented with a reasonable and acceptable counter-proposal and that if one were not available that the meeting should be deferred. I did also mention in the letter that I reserved my right to not accept any deal in this round of negotiations but that I was open to further rounds at a future date. To no-one's surprise the original email I composed was about 5 pages long and a friend proof-read it and it got cut back to about 5 short paragraphs.
So - while I'm not specifically driving this bus I do seem to be putting most of the fuel into it. Time for me to back off and let the other side make the next move.
I don't know what my former W expected yesterday but I don't think she got it. She did actually state that she hoped we'd all be "friends" afterwards. She did see that I can be civil at least. I was a bit disappointed to see some of the old passive-aggressive things she does where she will refuse to answer a direct question or will defer answering a question on a minor matter just to show that she has the power to do that.
Sigh. Wake me when it's over.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Hey AP, I don't have any advice on this as we do it very differently here in the UK but I just wanted to say that you sound like you are holding up considering the circumstances. I hope when and if I get to this stage that I can be as strong and as confident as you!
(((AP)))
Me - 47 H - 45 D-16 M - 6 years Separated - May 16
Don't leave me behind can't you see me I'm shining... (Years & Years - 'Shine')
I have wondered why my STBX has mentioned he'd like to be 'friends' again too. We were best friends who became lovers who ended up getting married. We remained best friends right up until the day he walked. Or at least I thought we had.
Unfortunately he's forgotten that I have never been friends with people who treat others with disrespect, dishonesty and disregard. That friendship rule of mine isn't going to change any time soon.
I should imagine, AndrewP, that you're not all that keen on becoming friends with somebody as cavalier with your feelings as your STBX?
I should imagine, AndrewP, that you're not all that keen on becoming friends with somebody as cavalier with your feelings as your STBX?
Devvo - thanks for the visit. I presume the alias is from the 1980s band?
I'll stop by your thread for a visit in a bit.
No - I can't imagine being "friends" with her. Currently I'm spinning a bit imagining scenarios where I explain to her exactly how badly hurt I am and asking her to imagine it from my side. I'm confident that if I had done to her what she did to me that things would be very very nasty right now indeed.
It was written somewhere that the opposite of love isn't hate. It's indifference. I'm working on it. After as long of marriages as we've both had it's tough.
I think that the best I will ever be able to do is to think of her as someone I used to know and yes, used to love but who is not part of my life. A stranger to be polite to on the street.
I'm not there yet and perhaps never will be completely.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
As OwnIt already said, it doesn't matter where AP lives or that he exists. You may have to split the house because it was shared during the marriage. It all depends on what the agreement ends up being.
I like that you told your lawyer you'd rather not meet until a counter-proposal is written. But actually, do you need to meet to see her counter-proposal? Couldn't her lawyer give it to your lawyer to look it over and then agree or disagree?
When I read stories like yours with the proposal disagreements, I'm thankful that my XH let me do whatever I wanted with our proposal. Luckily, we have now a very civil relationship and get along well as parallel parents.
Dream! So lovely of you to stop by. I hope your two wee ones are doing well still and that you are well settled into your new home.
Yes - I'm well aware that the AP is meaningless in the mathematical calculation of any sort of settlement. I do hope though that STBX will consider the "pain and suffering" part and also the essence of the idea of equalization when presenting an offer. But looking at it realistically she may be so far off in her fairy land that she won't. I do think she either actually thought she would get away with lieing about the infidelity and that we could all "be friends" afterwards or she's re-written her own history so that it never happened. I'll never know.
One key thing that I've learned over the last 18 months that I've been on this journey is that a separation agreement can be considered just a commercial agreement for the termination of a partnership. Given everything that happened I could understandably not be feeling generous with my initial offer. I also like to think that the fact that she obviously read it, responded to it, and has complied with it for 8 months now should have some weight. Also, I firmly believe that you don't start negotiating by capitulating.
One advantage of a face-to-face meeting I think is that it may speed up the process and decrease the spend. If I am presented with a counter offer that is close to acceptable, I can red-line it, pass it back and have it dealt with directly by the other party immediately rather than wait for it to go through mail, get interpreted and back and forth. Other than in the hardware store I am usually a very decisive person especially when it comes to big things. In this case I know all the numbers, pretty much any possible scenario and what I can find acceptable / not. I just have to be careful to not be reactive and to keep my emotions in check. STBXWW has a big problem with that last part.
With that said I have made it plain that I am cooperating and open to a counter-offer. If that counter offer is something I would be motivated to sign, I will. I am being very cautious as you point out to keep an close watch on the process and the legal spend. I expect at the end of this that my lawyer will breathe a sigh of relief when it is over as well I'm not necessarily a difficult client but just like doctors making the worst possible patients, I'm sure that clients who believe that they understand the process and the law are probably tough on lawyers who are used to being in a position of authority rather than being looked at as "the hired help".
It may be interesting for some of the people playing along on the home game to compare how divorce works out depending on the financial position of the LBS. In many cases, especially where the higher earner is off chasing their fantasy partner the LBS may well get a better settlement. My case is the opposite.
There is one common thing though that I think happens. It appears to have happened in your case, it certainly has in mine and also a friend who was the OW and has been married to her guy for nearly 20 years now is that those people dearly don't want to be "judged". I recall a case where my OW friend was very upset when a co-worker went on a rant about infidelity.
There are some that believe that Judgement is God's prerogative. Others who believe that karma comes to all people. For me, I honestly don't know. I do know that sometimes "bad" people "win". But to me that doesn't matter. It's not winning to me unless you can look at yourself in the mirror, or on Judgement Day if your faith runs that way and know that yes, you are a flawed individual and yes, you've made mistakes but that you have done the best you can by your family, your community and humanity. I do not flinch when I look in the mirror.
Thanks again for the visit Dream - Glad you are still following along. You were a calm voice of reason when the storm was raging all around me and I will always be grateful for that.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Hey AP! It also amazes me that you're STBX would also want to be friends after the D. Clearly she lives in some fantasy land especially as she has treated you like you don't exist since BD what does she think will change post BD!!
Hang in there (((AP)))
Me - 47 H - 45 D-16 M - 6 years Separated - May 16
Don't leave me behind can't you see me I'm shining... (Years & Years - 'Shine')
Just want you to know I am thinking of you. I can imagine that must have been very difficult.
Take care of yourself.
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
Thanks for the visits everyone. I appreciate the kind thoughts.
Nothing specific to report but I may have had a major shift.
On the weekend I let some of my anger boil over and vented to some good and kind friends who cheered me on and let me know that my anger was justified.
S23 is off visiting friends for the last day or so and so I woke up alone in the house this morning for the first time in a while. An actual empty house has a very different feel than one that has another person in it.
I realized a couple of important things this morning.
I'm not afraid of her any more. There was never any violence in our house nor even raised voices. But I lived in terror of upsetting her and would always rush to try to placate and make things better. If she didn't bother to do something I would take care of it as long as I could do it without upsetting her. During the meeting I was tempted to placate and perhaps did a bit but when she stormed out I felt ambivalent and I still do. Perhaps she's fuming and scheming away but that's not my problem. It will still be tough and I'm going to have to chug some huge STFU smoothies to get through this, but it doesn't matter.
She knew that I was afraid of her too and would use it to manipulate me in both small and large ways. I suspect that she's realizing that's not the case any more. The AndrewP who was in that meeting wasn't her old milquetoast but someone who was in a professional meeting who had their sh!t not only together but also numbered.
The other thing I realized this morning is that I'm fine. I always thought that I'd need to replace her with someone else and relatively quickly. I don't. Maybe someone will come my way but then again, maybe not.
This part of the journey will be tough I know and there is still danger lurking over the horizon. But as William Henley wrote I am the master of my fate,. I am the captain of my soul
Just as a warning - Tomorrow I'll probably fall apart and be full of drama again
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
I love that you recognize that you were a milquetoast and are not anymore. I also love that you know that you can be alone and you will be fine. I think that is really the key to being with someone else. Without that feeling all you have is suffocation and codependency. I am with you on the fear, but have started to realize that I have used the fear to remain tethered to him. I am letting it go. He can truly do whatever he wants. Controlling him is not within my power. You rock Andrew. Today, tomorrow and the day after.
At least the fear gives you a great opportunity to do your 180. It is intuitive, good for you, and should feel great! One of the biggest perks of this whole deal is not having to worry about what the spouse thinks. Enjoy it!
M: 41 W: 41 Married 2003 2 boys 9 & 6 Bomb Dropped May 2017
Realtors just went through the house - man that was tough. You think that you are healed and then things trigger you. I held it together though.
No - not selling but needing an "opinion of value". I thought it was a negative but it was a positive that S23 was with me - he's also friends with the realtors. His presence kept gave me a good supply of STFU. I do in actual fact not want to bias him against his mother and I also wanted to be sure that there could be no indication of bias being exerted on the realtors. They are professionals as well and I needed to respect that. They are reasonably familiar with my story and situation though as friends in a small village would be.
We went through the whole house. I had a copy of the original 100+ year old survey, the dates for all of the major things like roof and furnace. I made sure to highlight both the features and the flaws in an impartial way. I did have to stop talking a few times (shocking I know) because some of the emotions were so overwhelming as we would discuss the trees I planted, the work we've done on the house, the dreams we shared here.
But - chin up etc etc etc. They should be providing the document to me in a few days and best of all, they're did it for free which may weaken it's merits legally but I don't think anyone will argue.
I'm fully expecting my STBX to not be prepared at the next meeting either but there can be no way that it can be suggested that I'm not cooperating even if it is in something that I never in this world would have imagined doing 2 years ago.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Be careful Andrew, I see you slipping into Mr. Fixit. You said the status quo was good for you. Let her push the agenda. Won't she want an actual appraisal by an appraiser (usually $600 or more). Let her do it and pay for it.
Her attorney may request a second appraisal and, if so, they could come in and request that you and your w split the cost of one down the middle. If that is the case...do not argue about it...go w/it and get it done as quickly as possible so that this is one more task that you can check off the list.
Last edited by job; 08/31/1706:12 AM. Reason: Added link to new thread
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
She pressed "Accept".
It's still my hope that STBX will do as I asked / suggested and write up a simple agreement on her side and then I'll just sign the darned thing if it is reasonable. I'm not holding my breath though. The only legal things on my side that are involved is the ownership of the house - not that it's worth much and me getting married again and since I can't seem to get a date ....