Here's the summary with typos fixed (skip this if you've been following my situation):
Pulling it all together? * Gordie and W were married for twenty years and had five children, elementary to high school age. They were college sweethearts, committed Christians, and our first loves. Gordie had very fond memories of their early years of marriage but admitted that he and W had grown apart for quite some time. Nevertheless, he didn’t see their distance as a crisis. He was a hard worker and provided well for his family. He didn’t drink or stay out late with the guys and he was faithful. In other words, he thought he was a pretty good husband and father. * For the first fifteen years, W was a SAHM who, to him, seemed content with her involvement with the children and their daily lives. After baby #5, W started to make some changes. She lost weight and got in shape; she started exploring other religious beliefs; she made new friends (mostly single and divorced women); and she decided she wanted to work outside the home and start her own business. All of these changes made Gordie anxious, but he supported her, but not as much as he could have: he took a lot more responsibility for childcare on the weekends so that W could explore her new interests; he paid for her to take classes and travel; and he funded her new business. * That’s why Gordie was shocked when W announced that she no longer wanted to be married. W initially told Gordie that he had been a great husband and father and that he didn’t do anything wrong, but that they had just drifted apart. Later, in an angry outburst, W told Gordie that he didn’t listen to her, understand her and support her. Why did he get to have a rich, rewarding career while she was at home raising the children and being a homemaker? And when Gordie asked her why if she had been so unhappy she hadn’t told him, she grew furious, stating that she had tried for many years to get through to him but apparently he hadn’t been listening. Later still, W said that she was in love with two men at the same time--Gordie and a 22 year old employee--though she stated that there had been no physical relationship so far. Gordie was devastated. * He fantasized about running away or killing himself, just to end the pain of dealing with this nightmare, but he knew that both options would be cowardly and only make things worse. Although still devastated, Gordie decided to try to sort through his feelings and start the seven-step program to save his marriage. * Step Number 1 –Start with a beginner’s mind * Gordie had some unlearning to do. When W told him of her discontent, he vacillated between intense anger and desperation. His anger stemmed from the fact that he believed that he had been a near-perfect husband and that W had temporarily lost her mind. He felt like a victim and he was furious. * Gordie had to learn that regardless of what he thought about their marriage, W had a different perspective and he had to do some soul searching to try to understand why W has been so unhappy. As long as Gordie continued to play the blame game, he risked W walking out the door. Even if he found her perspective hard to follow, he needed to make every effort to be more empathetic—quickly. He also needed to accept that, whether he liked it or not, he was going to have to take responsibility for turning things around in their marriage. He had to internalize the notion that one person can change a marriage singlehandedly and that one person had to be him. * Step Number 2—Know what you want * Original Goals Goal 1—I want my W to stay married to me *She will stop bringing up D in conversation *When she talks about the future, I want to be included *She will give me words of affirmation Goal 2—W has to get the POM out of her life *W will acknowledge that his presence is not good for our M *W will say that she will stop going out to lunch with him and buying him presents *W will say talk about them not working together Goal 3—I want us to be happy together *We will go on weekly dates together *We will go on vacation together, just the two of us *W will initiate sex with me * Step Number 3—Ask for what you want * Gordie didn’t want to pursue or initiate a R discussion, so he planned out what he wanted to say and waited until W initiated a R discussion. Despite his best efforts, things did not go well. W told Gordie that she had been unhappy for a very long time and that W refused to spend what remained of W’s life in a miserable situation. W told Gordie that because W didn’t feel close, that W felt used when they had sex. W couldn’t fathom how insensitive Gordie had been to W’s feelings. W also informed Gordie that W had no intention of ending the relationship with POM, instead W wanted to foster and consummate it, that W could see herself marring him and having babies with him and having the relationship that W always wanted. * In the days that followed, Gordie reconsidered his commitment to their marriage. He was so surprised at W’s reactions and the vehemence with which W stated them that he began to wonder whether W was still the same women he married years ago. He questioned why he would even want to stay in a marriage with a W who wasn’t ready to drop the POM immediately. He felt he was losing touch with reality and felt desperate. He felt so much shame about his situation that he felt there was no one to whom he could turn. He was at a loss. * He thought more about his marriage, reflected on their shared history, the happy times, their children, and a sadness overwhelmed him. He also thought about the commitment they had made to each other and to God on the day of their wedding—until death do us part. So, for better or for worse, Gordie decided that he was going to stop fighting with W and start fighting for their marriage. Realizing that Step 3 didn’t bring about positive results, he had to proceed with Step Number 4—Going down cheeseless tunnels. * Step Number 4—Going down cheeseless tunnels * Gordie realized that his marriage was truly on shaky ground. If he pushed W too much, he recognized that W would be right out the door. In fact, he believed that W would probably seek solace with the POM. This was the last thing he wanted. It was enormously difficult for him to restrain himself from really letting her have it about W’s immoral and irresponsible behavior, but he knew that if he were to hound W about the POM or anything else, their marriage probably wouldn’t survive. He made a choice to become solution-oriented rather than to allow his emotions to be his guide. Gordie recognized that if his marriage had a chance of surviving, he would have to look inward and change himself first. This was a truly humbling experience for him, especially because he felt so raw. * He also recognized that, as unfair and unreasonable as it might be, it was Gordie who had to woo his W back. Because W had allowed W’s negative feelings about their marriage to fester too long, W was less motivated to work on their marriage than he was. Gordie decided to be realistic about his predicament. Gordie was going to have to take the lead. * Gordie realized that there was more merit in what W had been saying to him. In the early years of their marriage, they spent all of their free time together and talked endlessly. As time passed and their lives diverged, days, weeks, months could pass without meaningful conversation or alone time or date nights. When W started to make changes in her life, Gordie was emotionally anxious and either ignored what was happening or was critical instead of listening, understanding and being supportive. Sometimes, he found it difficult to be in W’s presence or to even talk to her. He vowed to stop criticizing and finding reasons to listen and compliment W whenever possible. * Gordie figured out that pressuring W to cut off all contact with POM was premature. From what W said, it was clear W wasn’t ready to commit to their marriage. Gordie knew that if W cornered, W would probably opt to pursue POM even if, in the long run, it wasn’t in W’s best interests. He knew that insisting upon an ultimatum was not going to work in his favor. So, as impossible as it seemed to him at the time, he promised himself that he would put the POM issue on the back burner for the time being. * At the same time, Gordie had taken to heart what W had been saying about their marital intimacy. He wasn’t quite sure what to do but he knew that something needed to change. He didn’t want W to feel used, yet he knew that sometimes they still had very passionate lovemaking, so all was not lost. He decided he would stop initiating and let W come to him. * In summary, Gordie determined that these were the more of the same behaviors that he needed to stop immediately: *Being critical and negative *Pressuring W to end her relationship with POM *Initiating sex Then Gordie asked himself, what should I do instead? He was ready for Step Number 5. * Step Number 5—Experiment and monitor results * Weeks one and two * Gordie decided to follow the advice outlined in a Do a 180. For Gordie, Doing a 180 meant that, even in his state of confusion, anger, and resentment, he try to spend quality time with W every day, attentively listening to her; and to be more loving, understanding, affectionate and appreciate of W. * He wrote down what he wanted to tell W, explaining that he finally understood why W was feeling so distant from him. He assumed responsibility for behaviors that increased the distance between them, like not spending enough time together, fearing and being critical of change, and emotionally disconnected sexual relations that left her feeling used. He asked for W’s forgiveness. He also complimented W on the positive changes W had made in her life to be healthy, to look great, to start her own business. * He waited to share these things the next time W initiated a R discussion. It was his hope that these words would demonstrate that he was really listening to W and taking W’s words to heart and taking responsibility for his failures in their marriage. * Gordie had his hopes up that this conversation would be a turning point, but unfortunately, it didn’t turn out that way. W listened carefully to what Gordie had to say, expressed appreciation for the fact that he said it, but felt like all of these changes and discussions were too little, too late. W said that she still loves Gordie, that they are soul mates, that they will always be connected, but that we have to get divorced for our relationship to grow. Further, W is willing to risk everything in order to pursue a relationship with POM even if it doesn’t work out or else W will live the rest of her life with regret and what ifs; no one, particularly Gordie, is going to stop her from pursuing her dreams! * W’s response upset Gordie tremendously. He had been feeling fairly certain that W would be responsive, but he was wrong. He started to imagine what his life would be like without W and the thought terrified him. Despite their problems, in his heart, Gordie always knew that they would be together forever. W was pulling the rug out from beneath his feet. * Weeks three and four * Gordie realized he had to get a grip on himself and stop pursuing W in any way. He had to devise a plan to deal with his feelings of insecurity. He decided to confide in a couple of friends about what was happening in his marriage. They were extremely supportive and this comforted him tremendously. * Rather than work on their marital problems, W kept her distance. They weren’t fighting, but they weren’t talking about their R either. Gordie realized that if their marriage was going to get back on track, it was not going to be a speedy process. He tried to prepare for the long journey back to feeling close again. He decided that he would have to be more patient, more patient that he had ever been before, and that he would have to let W know that she was going to be his friend while he went on his own journey. * He knew that, no matter how hard it was for him to do, he needed to give W space to sort things out W’s way. Gordie needed to get back on track and stick to his plan of backing off. * Weeks five to eight * During the next three weeks, Gordie and W had several ups and downs. When he gave her space and avoided R discussions, things were calm. When he voiced any discontent or questioned her at all about her actions or intentions, things deteriorated. On one hand, the calm felt better than the storm, but he also felt that he was sweeping things under the carpet. W started initiating more R discussions and opening up more about her anger, her fears, her desires, her frustrations, and her resentments. Gordie listened and validated. At the end of the eight weeks, W initiated sex for the first time since BD and it was glorious. * Months three and four * Over the next two months, Gordie saw continued signs of improvement. Gordie and W were spending more time together. W started texting and calling him. W started flirting and W was sometimes inviting physical contact—including sex. W expressed feeling closer, but that W hasn’t changed her mind about wanting to S or D. Lawyers have been called and they are actively working on a separation agreement.
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
I find recently that I've been reading more of the old/new threads in the MLC forum that I'd try moving my thread from newcomers over here. I feel like I've already learned so much from all of you here in MLC that applies to my situation.
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Welcome to the MLC Forum. I'm sorry you are here, but you'll discover a lot of wonderful people post all over the Forum, including this one. Read as much a you can, take away what you can use and leave the rest behind.
I'm pasting in Cadet's Welcome Thread info. Please read the threads because you will discover a wealth of info.
Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.
This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.
Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources. You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.
I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations. Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure. You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you! Start your homework assignments. Something to DO while you are on moderation. GAL. Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath. In general take care of your self first.
Detach the single most important thing to DO.
Your H/W has given you a gift THE GIFT OF TIME use it wisely
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon _________________________ Me-62, D30,S29
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Thanks. I've been lurking over in MLC for some time and have read and re-read most of those threads. I'll continue to re-read them, as each time I do, more sinks in. In terms of the going dark one to start, the problem in my marriage was being too distant from my W, so going dark would be more of the same, so haven't taken that approach. With my DB coach, I have been trying to create emotional connection. It's been working, but my W is still unwavering in her desire for D.
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
I think you are great. I follow along, and you really want to save your M and you are working hard at that But I want to point out one thing I keep reading in the introduction of the story. That can relate to your wife's complaints. it may seem small, but it is pretty impactful, and I can see it often, here, and in IRL.
"All of these changes made Gordie anxious, but he supported her, but not as much as he could have: he took a lot more responsibility for childcare on the weekends so that W could explore her new interests; HE paid for her to take classes and travel; and HE funded her new business"
You did not pay for her, and you did not fund her. You both paid and funded you both funded her. She may not have earned an income, but with 5 children, your career most likely wouldn't have been successful and that money would have not been coming in if SHE wasn't caring for 5 kids full-time. So that money that funded her is hers as well as yours.
The feeling of oppression that comes from being a SAHM is that they are made to feel like their husbands GIVE them money. They lose their feelings of independence because they are made to feel like they don't earn their own.
FTR, I was the bread-winner. We both took a career switch at the same time when we were engaged and the bread-winning flip-flopped. So I am not even a SAHM saying this. but I have very close friends who have gone through this and I have seen it on here.
for a 180, it might be a good idea not to ever mention that YOU funded her:)
***You did not pay for her, and you did not fund her. You both paid and funded you both funded her. She may not have earned an income, but with 5 children, your career most likely wouldn't have been successful and that money would have not been coming in if SHE wasn't caring for 5 kids full-time. So that money that funded her is hers as well as yours.***
Ginger, thank you for this truth dart. You are so right.
***The feeling of oppression that comes from being a SAHM is that they are made to feel like their husbands GIVE them money. They lose their feelings of independence because they are made to feel like they don't earn their own. FTR, I was the bread-winner. We both took a career switch at the same time when we were engaged and the bread-winning flip-flopped. So I am not even a SAHM saying this. but I have very close friends who have gone through this and I have seen it on here. for a 180, it might be a good idea not to ever mention that YOU funded her:)***
Thank you for your willingness to point that out. I wish I could talk to you IRL because I have so many questions for you and Rose, given how thoughtful your perspective has been in my situation and how you have helped me see my W's perspective.
I know, know, know that I have blind spots in my R with my W. The list of complaints that she has had about our R is long. At first, I was in complete denial, but as time passes and I have more time for reflection and the absorption of truth darts, I see more of the truth in her complaints and the idiocy of my denials.
So here's one I've been trying to see my W's perspective on but know I have a blind spot. A lot of W's (including mine) say their H's are condescending. When the W says that, what does that mean? I say it's a blind spot because I don't think I'm condescending, but if she's feeling it, then I must be doing something wrong.
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Did the OM know of your W's delusion or was this news to him? How did he react to your discussion?
OM knew, he's the one that actually raised the issue (delusional infatuation) through someone we knew. Once the news got to me, I contacted the OM and he was supportive of letting my W know she was in a one way infatuation.
ForGump,
Wow, and then how did you tell your W and what did she say? Did she deny? have a breakdown?
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
I liked your pull it together thread in newcomers as you really tried to follow the book. Many here read the book and vaguely go on without really referring to it in practice.
That being said I would just point out that your situation is relatively young and maybe still too soon to achieve the result you are working towards. Be patient.
Best wishes
R 25 years M 14 years S11 & S13 Working on it alone since Oct 2014 M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years) Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr. Next R chat Aug'17 Still together
To clarify I meant your fight for M being relatively young especially compared to start of her mlc.
R 25 years M 14 years S11 & S13 Working on it alone since Oct 2014 M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years) Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr. Next R chat Aug'17 Still together
