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Apologies in advance for the short novel that will follow, and for any other errors in protocol. I'll try to be reasonably brief, but those of you who stick through to the end will hopefully understand why that's easier said than done.

The super short version is that my (mid 40s) wife (also mid 40s) of 20 years is obsessed with another guy whom she barely knows and who in no way has reciprocated her feelings. In fact, I'm not sure he's aware of her feelings. Despite this, she's convinced that she's somehow destined to be with him and marry him some day … while at the same time going back and forth on whether she's committed to our marriage and insisting she has no desire to break up the other guy's family (what?).

Exacerbating matters are some mental health issues that may be the root cause of much of this, and obviously – along with our two children – complicate my decision to continue fighting for the marriage or call it quits.

OK, that's the short version. Here's the full version.

Wife and I are married 20 years, with two kids (13 and 9). The first 15 years were great, with very few conflicts, good jobs, financially stable, healthy sex life, etc.

The first sign of trouble was about five years ago, when she accused me out of the blue of having an affair with our nanny. This was not true. Not only was I not having an affair with our nanny or anyone else, but I still can think of no reason for her to have suspected it. No unusual phone calls, texts, emails, nights out, changes in behavior, etc. The best she could offer was “gut feeling.” Around this time there were a lot of red flags that I should have paid closer attention to … she was hearing things that weren't there, had bizarre interpretations of routine events, etc. This is relevant later.

Also, truth to be told, I didn't take her concerns as seriously as I should have. They were not remotely based in reality, so I treated them as such, but looking back I should have done more to ease her fears.
All that said, after about 6 months she told me that she no longer believed I'd had an affair and things went back to normal … so I thought.

Fast forward to about two years ago when, after I noticed things didn't seem quite right, she admitted she had a crush on a co-worker ... but it was just a crush, she hadn't acted on it and this other guy wasn't aware of it. I wasn't happy, of course, but I understand that crushes happen and as long as that's all it was, I figured it would fade away like any other crush. Wrong again.

About 9 months after this initial revelation, she volunteers that her crush wasn't a co-worker after all, but a guy we know through volunteering at our kids' school. Also, she's “in love” with this person and thought he felt the same way for her. She said nothing physical ever occurred between them, and based on a lot of digging around and subsequent information, I'm 99 percent sure that's true. As best as I can tell, she's barely even spoken to this guy over the years other than a quick chat in passing, and only seen him at school events a handful of times a year. She admits she knows virtually nothing about him – like, didn't know what he did for a living, didn't know any of his interests, etc. There's no indication they've ever been together alone, no unusual phone calls, emails, texts, etc. She says she called him one time, and he said “Who is this? Why are you calling me?” and she hung up. She says she texted him twice, and he replied neither time.

I'm sure many of you are reasonably thinking there's got to be more, but again, after much digging, I've found nothing to contradict any of this. Could there be more? Of course. But there's zero indication of that, and I've looked a lot.

So, after a short stint of counseling, things haven't gotten better. She still believes she may be destined to marry this guy – though, again, insists she doesn't intend to break up any families – and that he's somehow her soulmate, etc. Our marriage counselor suggested she was experiencing limerence, and if you look up the symptoms, she pretty much checks off all the boxes.

Our latest R talk this week ended with her saying she still hopes to have a future with this guy (won't his family be thrilled?) and deciding that divorce might be best for us. She says she doesn't think she can love me the way I want or deserve, so ending it would be best for both of us. She may be right. We're still living together, had until recently been regularly intimate and, to the outside world, are a normal couple.

Here's where everything gets even more complicated. On top of all this – and perhaps the root cause of all this – are what seem to be some mental health issues. To put it simply, my wife is delusionally convinced that virtually everyone she knows is obsessed with her obsession over this guy. She believes people from our kids' school follow her to see if she's meeting with this guy. She believes our kids' sports leagues set up their game and practice schedules so they know where she'll be at certain times. She believes people stop by our house to check up on her. She believes I've asked people to spy on her. She believes school functions are scheduled to keep track of her and this guy. She believes people have hacked her email and moved things around in various folders to either send her clues or just mess with her mind. She believes I somehow track this guy's movements.
There's more, but you probably get the gist. Because of this, I have a strong suspicion that her extreme infatuation with a virtual stranger and accusations against me stem from some of the same disordered thinking.

Thankfully, she is seeing a psychologist, has seen a psychiatrist, and is taking meds as recommended. There's at least a glimmer of recognition on her part that her beliefs aren't quite right. Unfortunately, the delusional thinking remains dominant. Also, while I believe her counselor is helping with her thinking, I don't think the counselor is doing the marriage any favors.

So, that's where I am. She's thinking divorce, and continues to be obsessed with another man and thinks she'll somehow, someway end up with him. Her anger and resentment toward me – for things I haven't done – along with her extreme crush keep her from committing to repair our marriage and have us on the brink of divorce.

This has been going on for about 2+ years now, and just ending it would seem the easy – perhaps sane – thing to do. Two years is a long time, and truth be told, I have little interest in continuing a relationship on these terms. This is wearing on me mentally, emotionally and physically.
But I struggle with that when it seems apparent that at least some of this stems from mental illness. Also, there's the kids to consider, and that's a huge consideration for me. She is by and large a terrific mom and the kids wouldn't understand why I'm divorcing her (and I would not explain it to them the way I have to you).
To be clear, divorce is not my first choice, but the status quo is not workable either.
I have read much of the DB material, but I worry how applicable it is here. It seems DBing requires some level of rationality by both sides, and that's not present here.

Thanks much to any of you that have made it this far. I have lots of questions, but it's best to end now and read what others think.
Any ideas,thoughts, guidance, etc., would be very much appreciated.

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Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.


Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon


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Has a doctor ruled out something like a brain tumor?

How long has she been on meds? Should she be improving by now, if the drugs www going to work, or is she still in the stage where the drugs are building to the correct dose?


Me: 44
H: 44
Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10
Together/Married: 22 years
H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16
H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
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Kane10,

I'm sorry that you are hear relaying this very sad story. If it is any comfort, you are not the only one who has been married 20 years to the perfect wife and mother who now wants a D so she can be with her soul mate even though she doesn't know if he feels the same way. I am as baffled as you are.

What makes your case different than mine is the level of mental illness involved. It's good that is recognized enough by her to seek treatment. Does she have a history of mental illness?. I have no expertise with mental illness so don't want to advise on that portion of your story. How is her physical health? Is she suffering any MLC symptoms?

What I can advise on is that you cannot control your W; you can only control you. So tell us more about you: how are you as a husband and father? None of us here are perfect.


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
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Thanks for replying, Rose.

I can't say for certain that a brain tumor has been ruled out, but as part of getting medication she's seen both her general physician and a psychiatrist, so I think it's not something they're concerned with.

She's been on two main medications.
1. An anti-depressant for about two years. The good news there is that it's smoothed out her emotions in that she's no longer struggling to focus on daily life. The bad news is that it's smoothed out her emotions to the point that she's detached from much of this. For example, she's told me at various times that she knows intellectually that she should feel bad about what this is doing to our long relationship, our kids, the life we've built, etc., but she just doesn't. She has little guilt/remorse, not because she's a bad person (she's not, really), but she just can't experience those feelings.
2. An antipsychotic she began with about 4-5 months ago when the delusional thinking got really bad. It's helped in the sense that she's not constantly focused on these thoughts, but it hasn't helped her gain much clarity on what's real or what's not. Essentially, she's at a point where she recognizes on an intellectual level that her beliefs don't make a lot of sense, or at least aren't grounded in any evidence, but at the end of the day, she isn't willing/ready to dismiss them. She says things like "this is what my intuition is telling me and it's never been wrong."

Thanks again.

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Thanks for responding, Gordie.

To answer your questions:
1. Her physical health is normal.

2. Yes, there seem to be some MLC elements here. In fact, her counselor previous to the one she has now suggested at the onset of this that her infatuation with the other guy was her MLC and would eventually fade away if she let it. If only.

3. I'm certainly nowhere in the neighborhood of perfect. That said, I consider myself a good husband and father. On the latter, I'm very involved with both my children (coaching, school activities, nights out, etc.) and have positive relationships with them.
As for being a husband, as I said in my initial post, we had a typically strong marriage for 15 years. We rarely fought and when we did, it was generally resolved in a matter of days or less to both sides' satisfaction. I've never been guilty of any of the big dealbreakers (abuse, addiction, infidelity). We've both been well employed throughout, and while we're hardly wealthy and have few luxuries, we live a comfortable (upper?) middle-class existence.
As I alluded to earlier, if there's been one true "screw the pooch" moment, it's when she accused me of infidelity and I didn't take her fears seriously. To be sure, her allegations were not only groundless, they were absurd, such as claiming I was having sex with my AP in the basement while she and kids slept upstairs. Or that she knew this woman was outside our home waiting for me because my wife could smell her perfume ... in December, with all the windows closed.
For weeks I, in not so many words, told her she was nuts and refused to see a counselor. (We finally did, but it was very short-lived).
It's obvious now she's never forgiven me for that. It's also obvious, it seems, that she never really believed the affair didn't happen, but tried unsuccessfully to let it go.

If you have any more specific questions, I'll do my best to answer.
Thanks

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I hear you say she is a good person, W and mother that you love but is suffering from mental illness. If so, then the question is whether or not her illness can be resolved medically or otherwise, and the good W will return? Again, I have no experience with mental illness so don't really have advice on that front. Some mental illness is temporary, some is chronic. Some is treatable, some is not. Some gets better over time, some gets worse. I have no idea of your situation. How does this affect the rest of her life and parenting? She is getting some help, but is it the best help you can get? Are you treating this with the same urgency you would if she was dying of a physical illness?

MLC is sometimes accompanied by mental illness, usually depression. Why else do you suspect MLC?

In terms of her prior accusation, I feel like there's more to the story. There was obviously a breakdown in trust to the extent that she would suspect an A, even if it was not true. The breakdown in trust can have external and internal factors. Did she feel emotionally disconnected or neglected by you? Was the nanny her opposite or cause some other anxiety in her? Maybe she is quiet and the nanny was vivacious. Maybe your W compared her aging body to the nanny's youthful one. I don't know just want you to think about it. There is also the possibility that so many of the Hs here experience: the you should have known or paid attention to my issues without me telling you or I tried to tell you but you didn't listen to me. Was there infidelity in her family of origin that made her suspicious? Maybe she has had feelings for other men during your M and assume you have had extramarital feelings too?


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
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Thanks for all the questions. I'll try to do my best to answer in order as fully as I can. Obviously there's a lot I don't know here, but I'm not holding back on anything.

1. How does this affect the rest of her life and parenting?
Really no effect on her parenting. She's a loving mom when she's not talking about splitting up the family. As for the rest of her life, she's basically lost all of her friends in our community, either by cutting them out of her life or alienating them with veiled (and sometimes no so veiled) accusations about them mistreating her. The only person who knows about this and has her complete trust is her sister, who agrees that she's acting unstable but is understandably reluctant to insert herself too much on my behalf. Ultimately, blood is blood.

2. She is getting some help, but is it the best help you can get? Are you treating this with the same urgency you would if she was dying of a physical illness?
Hard to answer. Because of the nature of all this, there's only so much I can know. I'm not sitting in on her appointments and her counselors/doctors can't share information. I really have no idea if they're hearing the exact same stories I am or what they're telling her.

3. Why else do you suspect MLC?
Just her previous counselor's remark, the age at which this hit and the fact that we - like you - got together young and have not had a lot of outside romantic experience, which makes me wonder whether she thinks she missed out.

4. Did she feel emotionally disconnected or neglected by you?
Not that I know of. She never suggested it. I meant it when I wrote that this was out of the blue, at least to me. In fact, about 2-3 months before it surfaced, we took an extended weekend away without the kids (our first since we had kids) and had a fantastic, romantic time. I understand what you're saying about how this couldn't have materialized out of thin air, but I've racked my brain looking for missing clues and have come up empty. Not saying I couldn't have missed anything, but if there were something I remain ignorant to it.

5. Was the nanny her opposite or cause some other anxiety in her?
Not that I know of.

6. Was there infidelity in her family of origin that made her suspicious?
Maybe. Her sister and her husband had some marital issues not long beforehand, in which they both had quick flings. I don't know many of the details, though.

7. Maybe she has had feelings for other men during your M and assume you have had extramarital feelings too?
She insists this is not the case. Until this guy came along she says she never had feelings, even a minor crush, for anyone outside the marriage.

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Changing all of your friends is another symptom of MLC.

What is your R with her sister? Is she helpful or hurtful to the situation?

No, you can't know and you don't want to criticize but maybe keep the door open for her to evaluate her own situation. Ask questions and be curious without being critical: what do you think of your doctors? Any thoughts about your current mix of medications? I'm guessing here.

MLC is many things, a re evaluation of life that takes place somewhere between 35-50. Am I happy with how I have lived my life? Am I where I want to be--physically, relationally, professionally, spiritually? It's a crisis when a person is dissatisfied with their answers to some or all of these questions and feels stuck or trapped. Does this sound like your W? The MLC forum has a good list of recommended books.

The weekend away may have been her last attempt to see if she could see a life together with you before BD. I have a heartbreaking story to share: a few months before BD, my W asked me to re propose to her with getting down on one knee, a new ring, everything. We did all that and then...BD. I couldn't believe it and the. Read other stories here where the same thing happened.

This is pure speculation: if your W was close to your nanny, it's possible that your nanny spoke of you in very positive ways to your W and your W may have misconstrued those comments to be something they weren't. Maybe it was around the same time as this happening to a celebrity or someone she knew. Who knows, but something triggered some mistrust in her, possibly related to your but possibly not.

You said she is close to her sister. If she had an A then you can bet it had an influence on your W, more than you are expressing.


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
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Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.

Originally Posted By: Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.

It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.

We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.

Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.


Me-70, D37,S36
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