Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 9 of 11 1 2 7 8 9 10 11
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 291
W
Woke_Up Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
W
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 291
Originally Posted By: sandi2
How about an update?


Hi Sandi

I've sat down several times and not managed to finish one over the last week or so - had done one on my phone, then managed to lose it. It has been a mixed bag really.

Going back to last week:

Had been drawing back, minimised interactions and arguments since the weekend. WW told me one evening that the cracks were beginning to show - meaning with our D4. D4 had said we must be nice to each other, that WW must love daddy. That was hard to hear, the impact we are having on the children.

I said that we need to try and keep our arguments and discussions in private, not in front of D or SS.

Mid week was funeral of W's grandfather, so I worked from home and attended that with her.

I lose track of the exact days, but one morning, Saturday I think, WW said she wanted to end the EA but didn't really know how to. She said that she didn't even feel the desire to meet hi any more, that it would be too much aggravation. I said that she knew what had to be done, she'd seen all the information I'd sent her previously and done her own research, and she would need to go No Contact. I said she should consider an IC or a friend to help her. She didn't want to involve 3rd partied and wanted me to help her. I can't remember how I responded to that. It's not right, she should really be asking me to help her end R with her EAP.

Next morning I asked her if she had done anything about it. She said she wanted the right time. I asked if she was worried or scared - she said she had 2 fears. The reaction of OM, and that she would miss 'her friend'. I said that reaction of OM would not be relevant if she went NC and took steps to ensure that he couldn't contact her or vice versa. And as for missing OM, she knew it was an addiction and it was cold turkey and it would be hard, which is why I suggested professional help or a friend to help (she has one friend that knew about the EA, although I think she has since told her it is over, just to avoid talking about it).

Anyway, as far as I can tell she hasn't done anything about this, and we have settled back into limbo.

We are still sharing the MBR. Since these conversations I have been drawn back in a bit. I am not as remote and have resumed being affectionate. She has had a lot of back pain since Sunday when we did some work together outside, moving gravel to put vehicle access round the side of the house - so I have been assisting with her back rubs and stuff at night time. I know that I will probably be told I shouldn't do this, I guess I still suffer from a lot of misplaced guilt.

At dinner one evening, D4 mentioned that she & mummy might be moving to another house and I wasn't going but she wanted me to. W said that wasn't true. I wasn't happy with this as it invalidated D's statement - so I spoke to her about it. She had though D was getting confused about one of her friends moving house, and hadn't realised it was about the conversation from the previous weekend when she had spoken to D about moving.

Anyway, this week, Monday evening, we were sitting at the table and W says to D that she loves daddy. So I told D that I loved mummy, and that we both loved D very much.

Anyway, I don't know if fog is lifting slightly at times, or whether WW is just manipulating me, even if subconsciously. I don't want to keep asking if she has done anything about the EA when it is obvious to me she hasn't.

Anyway, I have been reading the 37 rules every day as Patient Man recommended. emotional detachment comes and goes - good days and bad days. Not so good this week as I let myself become close again after the weekend conversations.

GAL - I am doing my Krav Maga training, and had a 6 hour knife defence seminar on Saturday which was good - very interesting and left me aching. I am training again tonight.

I have also been focussing on the work front - my contract expires at the end of the month, so I have been busy looking for my next one. This has caused a bit of anxiety. I interviewed for one on Tuesday, and thought it didn't go great, but I have had a call back and it was positive - looks like it may go to an offer. I also have another interview this coming Tuesday. Both are in London, so still no end to the long commute and work days, but stability for the family is more important right now. I can keep looking at opportunities closer to home.

I am working from home tomorrow and due to see a L to discuss what the situation would be if a separation was to occur.

I have been re-reading DR, still need to review my action oriented things to do differently. I find the DR book to be much more conciliatory than the advice here with regards to waywards, although it does discuss what to do if they won't end the A, which is predominantly LRT.

I think I will take stock of what I was doing differently that led up to W's conversations about ending the EA, and regain some emotional detachment. The trouble is I keep trying to assign motives to W's words and actions, which I know is a definite no-no. Trying to guess whether she is coming round, or being manipulative, or both or neither... I just need to let it go and carry on doing what I need to.

I'll keep posting. It has just been hectic this last week or so, and often a lack of privacy at home to get on the forum.

Thanks again.


--
Me: 47 WW: 35
SS: 17 D: 5
T: 7 yrs Engaged: 2 yrs
OEA confirmed: August 17 2016 ongoing since April 2016.
OEA continues (with occasional breaks)
BD2 - W says will visit OM in Jan 18
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,605
G
Member
Offline
Member
G
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,605
***Had been drawing back, minimised interactions and arguments since the weekend. WW told me one evening that the cracks were beginning to show - meaning with our D4. D4 had said we must be nice to each other, that WW must love daddy. That was hard to hear, the impact we are having on the children. I said that we need to try and keep our arguments and discussions in private, not in front of D or SS.***

Yes, heartbreaking. W and I are not yellers so we have kept our issues behind closed doors, but I know one time, the kids definitely heard my W screaming...they never said anything about it.

***Mid week was funeral of W's grandfather, so I worked from home and attended that with her.***

So W still wants you to do family things together? Mine too. So confusing.

***I lose track of the exact days, but one morning, Saturday I think, WW said she wanted to end the EA but didn't really know how to. She said that she didn't even feel the desire to meet hi any more, that it would be too much aggravation. I said that she knew what had to be done, she'd seen all the information I'd sent her previously and done her own research, and she would need to go No Contact. I said she should consider an IC or a friend to help her. She didn't want to involve 3rd partied and wanted me to help her. I can't remember how I responded to that. It's not right, she should really be asking me to help her end R with her EAP.***

Wow, not sure what I would do if my W asked me to do that.

***Next morning I asked her if she had done anything about it. She said she wanted the right time. I asked if she was worried or scared - she said she had 2 fears. The reaction of OM, and that she would miss 'her friend'. I said that reaction of OM would not be relevant if she went NC and took steps to ensure that he couldn't contact her or vice versa. And as for missing OM, she knew it was an addiction and it was cold turkey and it would be hard, which is why I suggested professional help or a friend to help (she has one friend that knew about the EA, although I think she has since told her it is over, just to avoid talking about it). Anyway, as far as I can tell she hasn't done anything about this, and we have settled back into limbo.***

Same! W has said things about not pursuing POM, but have tried not to get too excited about it because I have no idea what is really going on...and my guess is, probably nothing has changed...

***We are still sharing the MBR. Since these conversations I have been drawn back in a bit. I am not as remote and have resumed being affectionate. She has had a lot of back pain since Sunday when we did some work together outside, moving gravel to put vehicle access round the side of the house - so I have been assisting with her back rubs and stuff at night time. I know that I will probably be told I shouldn't do this, I guess I still suffer from a lot of misplaced guilt.***

This made me laugh...because I do the same; I'm not the only one!

***At dinner one evening, D4 mentioned that she & mummy might be moving to another house and I wasn't going but she wanted me to. W said that wasn't true. I wasn't happy with this as it invalidated D's statement - so I spoke to her about it. She had though D was getting confused about one of her friends moving house, and hadn't realised it was about the conversation from the previous weekend when she had spoken to D about moving. Anyway, this week, Monday evening, we were sitting at the table and W says to D that she loves daddy. So I told D that I loved mummy, and that we both loved D very much.***

Argh. This is so hard. And we haven't told our kids yet.

***Anyway, I don't know if fog is lifting slightly at times, or whether WW is just manipulating me, even if subconsciously. I don't want to keep asking if she has done anything about the EA when it is obvious to me she hasn't. Anyway, I have been reading the 37 rules every day as Patient Man recommended. emotional detachment comes and goes - good days and bad days. Not so good this week as I let myself become close again after the weekend conversations. GAL - I am doing my Krav Maga training, and had a 6 hour knife defence seminar on Saturday which was good - very interesting and left me aching. I am training again tonight.***

I love extreme workouts...they take your mind off everything!

***I have also been focussing on the work front - my contract expires at the end of the month, so I have been busy looking for my next one. This has caused a bit of anxiety. I interviewed for one on Tuesday, and thought it didn't go great, but I have had a call back and it was positive - looks like it may go to an offer. I also have another interview this coming Tuesday. Both are in London, so still no end to the long commute and work days, but stability for the family is more important right now. I can keep looking at opportunities closer to home.***

Good luck on the work front.

***I am working from home tomorrow and due to see a L to discuss what the situation would be if a separation was to occur.***

I hate the L stuff, but you've gotta do what you've gotta do.

***I have been re-reading DR, still need to review my action oriented things to do differently. I find the DR book to be much more conciliatory than the advice here with regards to waywards, although it does discuss what to do if they won't end the A, which is predominantly LRT. I think I will take stock of what I was doing differently that led up to W's conversations about ending the EA, and regain some emotional detachment. The trouble is I keep trying to assign motives to W's words and actions, which I know is a definite no-no. Trying to guess whether she is coming round, or being manipulative, or both or neither... I just need to let it go and carry on doing what I need to. I'll keep posting. It has just been hectic this last week or so, and often a lack of privacy at home to get on the forum.***

Definitely worth re-reading DB/DR and reassessing. I wish I had more/better advice for you. You are not alone.


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
Wasn't it your W who said she was trying to find the right time to end her A? You don't find a right time, and you don't let try to let the OM down easily. There is no tapering off an A, and there is no seeing OM one last time for "closure".

Quote:
WW said she wanted to end the EA but didn't really know how to.


Seriously, if she had really had it out with the OM, I bet she'd know exactly how to end it with him. Her excuses sound scripted from the WW textbook.

Quote:
I said that she knew what had to be done, she'd seen all the information I'd sent her previously and done her own research, and she would need to go No Contact. I said she should consider an IC or a friend to help her. She didn't want to involve 3rd partied and wanted me to help her. I can't remember how I responded to that. It's not right, she should really be asking me to help her end R with her EAP.


It's one thing to help find the information and give support while she is actually going through the withdrawals......but you cannot do it for her.
If your W truly wants help, I think she'll show more intent. Otherwise, I think she's playing you. The more she sees you accepting her betraying behavior, and she still profits from the MR in some kind of way......the less intent she'll have in ending things with OM.

Quote:
Anyway, as far as I can tell she hasn't done anything about this, and we have settled back into limbo.


I look at it this way......it takes two to have an argument. If you don't argue with her, then she can't have an argument by herself. You cannot settle back into limbo, if you are moving forward. She can either move with you, or she can be left alone in own state of limbo. You don't have to join.

Quote:
At dinner one evening, D4 mentioned that she & mummy might be moving to another house and I wasn't going but she wanted me to. W said that wasn't true. I wasn't happy with this as it invalidated D's statement - so I spoke to her about it. She had though D was getting confused about one of her friends moving house, and hadn't realised it was about the conversation from the previous weekend when she had spoken to D about moving.


To me, it sounds more like a WW's smoke & mirrors to throw off her suspicious H's questions.

Quote:
emotional detachment comes and goes - good days and bad days. Not so good this week as I let myself become close again after the weekend conversations.


B/c your values and standards are being compromised.

Quote:
I find the DR book to be much more conciliatory than the advice here with regards to waywards, although it does discuss what to do if they won't end the A, which is predominantly LRT.


Maybe b/c the book does not have feedback and speaks to more of a general audience of many scenarios....whereas, the board is dealing personally with you about the specific problems at your address. If it had not been for the specific advice from people on the DB board back in 2007, I don't know that I could have mustered the strength to go completely NC, and......not find another OM. FWIW, I felt that I did not find much instruction for me, as a wayward wife, in the DR book. That's not to say the book failed. As a WW, I just felt that it was mainly addressed to the LBS. Therefore, my instructions basically came from mentors on the board. The wayward spouse is not specifically addressed in the book, and the same approach is given for everyone......which in some cases, I have to respectfully disagree. I'm just giving you my personal opinion. If you will research the subject of the wayward wife, I think you'll find that a soft-love approach is not successful. With the WAW, most definitely, yes....and maybe even with some MLCW (IDK, b/c I haven't studied MLCW very much). My focus has been on the wayward, and I also believe there are many newcomers who label their own spouse as MLC, b/c the overt behavior mirrors the description list they read about MLC. However, it may not be MLC at all, but rather waywardness that has festered for years and just now acting out in the rebellion stage.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 875
S
SBJ Offline
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 875
So, Sandi great info, but how would one decide whether it is MLC vs WW. I know in my situation, all signs pointed one way, but who the heck really knows?


Me 49 W46
T25 M22
S22 D18 S13
W had EA Apr-Jul 2016
Dropped Bomb 7/9/16
ILYBINILWYA
HER DIVORCE IS FINAL...8/18/17
Dropping the rope to SURVIVE & THRIVE!!!
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
Quote:
So, Sandi great info, but how would one decide whether it is MLC vs WW. I know in my situation, all signs pointed one way, but who the heck really knows?


That's a really good question. Just doing a google search will show one reason why we are confused. So far, I have not found a site that explained the differences. In fact, I did not find one that used WW, MLC, and WAW in the same article (or whatever the site might have been). Crazy, huh? Why hasn't someone tackled that job? (It's probably out there, but I have not found it.)

You may have read how MLC is the result of a person transitioning from the younger side of life, into middle age.....and for various reasons they strongly resist it to the point of creating a mess of their life and the lives of their spouse and kids. From what I have gleaned from the years I've been here, is how certain things can happen that seem to trigger the MLC. So, I think it can be more complicated than just transitioning into middle age. The person in MLC may be angry at everyone around them, or angry at life for cheating them in some way. I won't get off into all of it, b/c it is too much. Another thing that is discouraging about MLC, is can last for several years.

The wayward wife can be any age, and she's not in transition. Where MLC may appear to show up overnight, I think waywardness happens covertly, so appears to be at a slower rate.....until she hits overt rebellion. She has a lot of anger, too, but her anger is directed toward her H. She blames him for everything bad, and nothing good happen for her....and he's why she is not happy. Her waywardness is born out of her heart when she allows resentment toward her H to take root. She doesn't forgive and she doesn't forget. She holds on to that resentment and she usually feeds it. She feels disrespect in her heart for her H. She begins to show her resentment and disrespect in subtle ways, at first, and as it builds momentum.....she dares to feel rebellion toward her M and her H. The rebellion is usually seen in her growing inappropriate behavior. Waywardness is a defiant, bitter, selfish, and hardened heart......directed toward her spouse. The disrespect she feels for her spouse affects her loving feelings. In most cases that I've read, the WW creates a fantasy in her head that propels her EA/PA/IA.

There is more than we could hope to cover in a few posts, about the WW and MLCW. Knowing your W's past, her parents, life changing experiences, and former long-term R's.......might enlighten you, if you suspect MLC. Your marital history, the dynamics of the MR, and her temperament/attitude toward you.....might help you decide if she fits the description of a WW. Sometimes, it takes learning more information on the subject, and a lot of personal and honest Q & A about your W and your MR, in order to know the basis or source of the problems.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 291
W
Woke_Up Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
W
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 291
Today was not a good day. Journalling.

Friday: worked from home, D was ill so not at school, so had some quality time with her, even if it did prevent me getting quite as much done as planned. My emotions were running high, was nearly in tears when she was sitting on my lap singing along to Disney Moana songs. Also had to take SS16 to his part time job and then to the orthodontist. W was out having her hair done so didn't see her much until later. Things were fine. In bed, ended up giving her the usual back rub, and later ended up ML.

Saturday: Overslept (8:15am) so would have been a rush to take D to her ballet lesson, but D said she still felt ill. so that didn't happen. Got intimate again with W in the morning after she was provocative with me. Did some work outside on the gravel/drive at the side of the house.


I had a private message from a political satirist on Twitter, we were discussing some current issues in the UK. W was immediately asking if she was flirting with me. W likes the comedienne in question, and actually introduced me to her.

Unfortunately snooped a bit, against my better judgement, but managed to hold off saying anything. Decided I am letting myself be taken for a ride, she is obviously cake eating. Can't work out what to do about it.

Today: Morning was OK, took SS to work, went out for a nice dog walk, picked SS up afterwards and took him for some driving practice. WW was out with D and friends at a play barn.

WW returned with D later, and told me how she had bumped into an ex, and felt horrible after seeing him, wanted me to hold and hug her.

Later, the stupidity too hold and I snooped at her phone a bit. When she came into the study where I was working, she said she still felt weird and dirty - she was referring to the ex bf incident, which I knew, but I responded by saying 'what, about the affair?' She said no, the ex-bf, and I told her she should feel that way about the affair. Anyway, I took another walk to try and cool down - which worked for a while.

Anyway, then the demons took hold again - W was upstairs, so I suspected she was on her other phone on skype to OM. She was. I read some of the messages, and saw read - the sex talk was there again, including how she thought of him while pleasuring herself yesterday... This made me mad, as we had ML yesterday, and then she's telling him this. Other stuff - she had also told OM about her ex-bf. He wanted to know why she didn't feel the same way about the 'ex she was still living with' - I was so close to responding to him from her skype account, but forced myself to hold back. I often wonder if I should make him see that we are still together, but last time I tried that, she managed to convince him I was lying, so I am not sure it would work. All the things I have read on her or in the book point towards not contacting him. She had also told him about the comedian being in touch with me and it was obviously bothering him, as he told her he didn't want to talk about me any more.

Anyway, back to the point - I marched upstairs and had angry words with W, told her that I had seen her other phone, that it was completely disrespectful what she was doing, and that I had told her I would block her phones for 24Hrs.

She didn't say anything other than to ask if I had access to her skype account, which I don't. She came and peered my laptop screen (to check, I assume) when I went back in the study to work/cool down.

Since then, have tried to be calm. Interactions are not unpleasant, we are being civil and cordial. She asked me to pick up some cream for the dinner she was cooking for all of us, so I did. I am assuming that as she is doing the family meal and I am included that it would up pointless, unkind and selfish to not assist.

Anyway, just siting down to dinner. She asked if I wanted mine in study - I said yes, as D is in here having hers, she was feeling hot and poorly when she was in the lounge, and it is cooler in here. I said thankyou to W for making it, and she just said 'I suppose you have to be nice to me about something'. I said I try am nice to her most of the time, I just get upset about things some times. She replied 'Don't we all'

And that's it. Up to date.
Morals to this story:
* Learn to recognise the signs of slipping into bad habits.
* Find ways of dealing with it when the demons come to call
* DO NOT SNOOP, no matter how much you want to. It really doesn't help.

More than anything, I am disappointed with myself. While not quite back to square one, I do feel I have taken a couple of backwards steps. Time to centre myself, take stock, and start again.

Wish me luck.


--
Me: 47 WW: 35
SS: 17 D: 5
T: 7 yrs Engaged: 2 yrs
OEA confirmed: August 17 2016 ongoing since April 2016.
OEA continues (with occasional breaks)
BD2 - W says will visit OM in Jan 18
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 291
W
Woke_Up Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
W
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 291
Originally Posted By: Woke_Up
Anyway, back to the point - I marched upstairs and had angry words with W, told her that I had seen her other phone, that it was completely disrespectful what she was doing, and that I had told her I would block her phones for 24Hrs.


Oh, and I forgot the icing on the cake. Turns out I don't know what the MAC address is for her new phone so I can't block it from the home WiFI for 24hrs anyway, so no consequence to enforce my boundary. Yes. I did say [Censored] to myself quite a bit once I worked that out.


--
Me: 47 WW: 35
SS: 17 D: 5
T: 7 yrs Engaged: 2 yrs
OEA confirmed: August 17 2016 ongoing since April 2016.
OEA continues (with occasional breaks)
BD2 - W says will visit OM in Jan 18
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 291
W
Woke_Up Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
W
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 291
Originally Posted By: sandi2


Seriously, if she had really had it out with the OM, I bet she'd know exactly how to end it with him. Her excuses sound scripted from the WW textbook.


Yeah, I'm going to have to agree with you after this weekend.

Quote:

Otherwise, I think she's playing you. The more she sees you accepting her betraying behavior, and she still profits from the MR in some kind of way......the less intent she'll have in ending things with OM.


That's what I was feeling today. I had been getting my hopes up after she talked of ending the EA. She had been googling 'dear john' letters on Thursday, and she was reading 'Torn Asunder' on Friday - but then on Friday night or Saturday she talked about the book and was quite dismissive as there was a lot of religion in it, or people who were in the Church having A's. W is not particularly religious, she describes herself as Spiritual. I asked if there was anything useful in it, and she said some parts. But behavior has not changed.

Anyway, her new bed arrives next Saturday, so she will move out of MBR. That physical space may help with things, I can't do backrubs or ML if she is in a different room. WW is still saying that she wants to move due to her not getting enough sleep, although from what I have seen recently, I haven't caused her any issues getting to sleep.

Quote:
The wayward spouse is not specifically addressed in the book, and the same approach is given for everyone......which in some cases, I have to respectfully disagree. I'm just giving you my personal opinion. If you will research the subject of the wayward wife, I think you'll find that a soft-love approach is not successful. With the WAW, most definitely, yes....and maybe even with some MLCW (IDK, b/c I haven't studied MLCW very much). My focus has been on the wayward, and I also believe there are many newcomers who label their own spouse as MLC, b/c the overt behavior mirrors the description list they read about MLC. However, it may not be MLC at all, but rather waywardness that has festered for years and just now acting out in the rebellion stage.


I think what you saying makes sense. I'm not that sure the DB/DR book approach wouldn't work eventually, but it just seems like a recipe for cake eating in the mean time, and I don't want to have trouble looking myself in the mirror by accepting what she is doing. As for MLC, I think there are times elements are intermingled. My WW is currently focusing on feeling old, wrinkles, wanting BOTOX etc, but I don't feel this is a primary cause of her waywardness, it maybe just adds to it.


--
Me: 47 WW: 35
SS: 17 D: 5
T: 7 yrs Engaged: 2 yrs
OEA confirmed: August 17 2016 ongoing since April 2016.
OEA continues (with occasional breaks)
BD2 - W says will visit OM in Jan 18
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 18,666
Likes: 1
Quote:
Since then, have tried to be calm. Interactions are not unpleasant, we are being civil and cordial. She asked me to pick up some cream for the dinner she was cooking for all of us, so I did. I am assuming that as she is doing the family meal and I am included that it would up pointless, unkind and selfish to not assist.


I have a hard time understanding men who know the W is cheating under their very roof......and yet, he convinces himself with some type of b.s. rationale that he should make an even bigger effort to nice her back. Come on........you caught her lying, dishonoring your boundary, and cheating. She practically told the OM she fantasizes about him as she is having sex with you....but then you feel it would be selfish and unkind of you not to assist her in preparing the meal? shocked

Quote:
Anyway, her new bed arrives next Saturday, so she will move out of MBR. That physical space may help with things, I can't do backrubs or ML if she is in a different room.


Oh really? What if she goes to your room, or calls you into hers......making up some excuse for you to hold her again? The physical space won't help as long as she can wrap you around her finger so easily. I wish you would have followed my advice about the importance attraction plays......and for the WW, she wants what she can't have so easily. The woman does not respect a man who knows she is betraying him, and he still gives her anything she wants (back rubs, hugs, sex, etc.). She is not attracted to a man who catches her red handed....and then runs to her side to cook supper b/c he has nice-guy syndrome.

Quote:
WW is still saying that she wants to move due to her not getting enough sleep, although from what I have seen recently, I haven't caused her any issues getting to sleep.


Stop it. Why are you paying any attention to what she is "saying"? She is moving into another room b/c it benefits her. Plain & simple. You see, she has no problem wondering if it is selfish or unkind. It is what she wants, and she will lie to make herself look better. Stop looking at her as if you need to woo her back into the MR, as if she is normal. She is wayward!

Quote:

I think what you saying makes sense. I'm not that sure the DB/DR book approach wouldn't work eventually, but it just seems like a recipe for cake eating in the mean time, and I don't want to have trouble looking myself in the mirror by accepting what she is doing.


Okay, then I am going to believe that last part is referring to your self-respect. It is important that you are able to maintain respect for yourself, isn't it? Would I be correct in saying that plays a big part in your decision making up to this time in your life? If so, then I hope you will be able to understand how important it is to a MR. A man has to respect himself, and command respect from others, especially those in his own house. The children have to be taught to respect him (even if they are disobedient and rebel), and so does the man's wife. It will not happen by being their BFF, or by ignoring their bad behavior. It won't happen if they are not held accountable, don't face consequences of their actions, or continue enjoying benefits you provide. Respect is the gateway to love and admiration.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 291
W
Woke_Up Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
W
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 291
Addendum.
A few words going to bed last night, as W wanted me to look for something for her, and I wasn't happy about it, given her continued
Some words about the bedroom move coming up, and I said it would be good as well. She then said she was looking forward to her new bathroom. I said it wasn't fair on the kids to start doing things like that, and that SS16 and I had put in a new cleaning regime to ensure bathroom is OK for all in the house, including the females. W said that she was going to have it anyway, I said it was just having a tantrum and exerting control and penalising the kids.
Then, just before settling down to sleep, WW said she loved me. I said she had a funny way of showing it. She said it was true, nevertheless. My final response was 'what do you expect me to say to that' and she said she didn't expect me to say anything.

Not feeling great this morning, preying on my mind again. I woke up early (4:30 and didn't get back to sleep before my 5am alarm).

Going to get back to some mindfulness and try and clear my head.


--
Me: 47 WW: 35
SS: 17 D: 5
T: 7 yrs Engaged: 2 yrs
OEA confirmed: August 17 2016 ongoing since April 2016.
OEA continues (with occasional breaks)
BD2 - W says will visit OM in Jan 18
Page 9 of 11 1 2 7 8 9 10 11

Moderated by  Cadet, DnJ, job, Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard