Quick rundown of my situation: - M11, T13 w/ a D9 - BD on 5/31/16 - Find out about EA with OM on 6/22/16. Had been ongoing since 5/13/16 - Confront W on 6/30/16 about her plans to visit OM over 4th of July weekend - W goes anyway on 7/3/16 for PA and I leave MBR that night - W comes back and we have talk on 7/7 about Ls - W retains L early August - I have met with 2 Ls so far and another in 2 days - "Family" beach trip for a week Aug 6, multiple MR talks - W leaves for an anniversary party for friends. Turns out it's for another PA with OM at the same lake - confront W on it and she lies, lies, lies. I move back into Mbr - W begins doing and saying odd things after blowup. Mentions possibility of cancer and writes a long letter blaming me for all our issues - W and I sit down and chat custody of D. A lot of spew and W wants to push ahead with Ls - 2 days later W offers to go to see MC, retracts offer, then re-offers. At the same time, W begins a campaign to get me to leave the house, leveraging my R w/ my D to drive it - I've retained an L and am willing to do MC with W, but am not expecting much to come from it - W uses MC session to re-iterate she does not want to reconcile. W pushes me to continue MC, but I refuse. I tell her we need a co-parenting counselor, not a MC. - W begins in earnest to get financial details for her S agreement from me. I provide, but reiterate that I do not believe divorce is the answer to our problems. - My Ls begin work on a S agreement, not bc I want to S but bc I want to have my view on paper when W provides me her agreement. - I find a co-parenting counselor through my L, and I visit individually with her. W delays setting up her individual appointment. - W initiates a couple R conversations in which I reiterate that divorce is not the answer to our problems and I am unwilling to accept anything less than 50/50 custody of my D. I'm willing to take full custody, but I'll work with her around 50/50 if that's what she wants. - Ws Ls deliver S agreement to my Ls. One day later W has a confrontational conversation with me in which she asks me to cancel the co-parenting session and re-initiate MC. - No MC yet. Still debating finding a different MC and whether W would be constructive in it at this point or if she's merely looking for validation of her decisioning. - Living in limbo right now. D9 in a better place than at the start of this thing. Trying to figure out what I want.
I've made substantial progress in moving away from allowing W to control my emotions and actions. I see her actions for what they are, but continue to deal with her anxiety and anger issues. Picking my battles, but not allowing her to run me over anymore.
For me though, with the help of a multitude of folks on here, I'm being extremely successful at fortifying my relationship with D9 to be stronger. I'm also making strides at re-tooling myself to be more like the man I was pre M. Standing up for myself and D in the face of some controlling behavior from W and refusing to be a doormat.
Working on GAL and some 180s but all for the sake of D and me. W can hop off her crazy train and join us, but she has a ton of work to do on herself before I would allow her back in. I'm unwilling to accept things as they were in the past anymore. The only path forward for W and I involves a lot of work and I'm not convinced she'll ever come to that realization. She needs to address her anxiety issues just as I've addressed my short-comings in the M.
In an awesome place with my D9. She is my peace and I find so much excitement watching her grow and blossom into an amazing person. I'm finding joy in being a father that I'd never tapped into before and I'm loving every minute of it!
Me39 M11 : T13 D9 BD 5/31/16 In House S until 6/21/17 Divorced 10/5/18
LT, just a random thought and observation. As I read other threads, including my own, I've noticed our Wives or Husbands make an appearance, as in, we catch a glimpse of the kind caring spouse they were, (yes they're crazy) but nonetheless they make an appearance. With you, I've noticed your W hasn't. Not sure it means anything, just an observation. I guess I cant picture your W as a W or a kind person.
When is she moving? If she's adamant about 90/10 custody wouldn't she have to move away for that to "happen"?
You are extremely patient and strong for still continuing to be there. You've done a great job!
She can insist but her just saying so won't make it that way. Does she really have grounds to get 90%? Unless you have documented history of violence or substance abuse, I would think 50% is realistic.
I agree, but still worries me that she'd take this thing to a judge and we are then at the whims of that judge. My Ls believe that 50/50 is more likely as well, but W appears to be willing to do anything not to reach that split. No history of violence or substance abuse on my part. It's just the uncertainty of putting our lives in the hands of a stranger that worries me.
To be honest, this trip that D and I are taking for 6 days in the spring will be telling I think. W is not going (anxiety around flying) and I'm unsure how she will handle the separation from our D. She was on edge when D and I went to the waterpark in August for a single evening. I'm not sure what/how she'll react when we are gone for 6 days.
Originally Posted By: PacLove
lt - I struggled with this too and came to the same conclusion back in December, but try not to look at the last 3 years, you've been together for 13 years - have you had happiness at all?
I've recently started spending more time with my W after a turning point and I can honestly say I'm really enjoying the connection and time we have together. Am I scared about going back? absolutely - but I think we both are and are both willing to work towards a better, happier M with open comms.
I realise this may not help you detach much, which I do see as an important step in the process. But helping you recognize what worked and what didn't in your M will set you up for future success whatever that might be.
Pac, I remember happy times w/ my W, but of course if you ask her we've never been happy as a M couple (11yrs). I have some very happy memories with her, even over the past 3 yrs. That's the happiness I'd like to get back to, but it was of course interspersed w/ issues driven by her anxiety and some of my shortcomings. Working on my issues, but she is not on hers, so unsure how we get back to that.
I've been following your sitch from afar, but am extremely encouraged for you around the want of your W to spend more time w/ you. I think you are right to have angst around going back into the situation, but it seems normal. how could you not feel that way. That said, if she's willing to work on it as well then I think you are doing the right thing!
I do need to give some thought to what worked in the M. My focus has been so much on what didn't work, as well as protecting myself and my D from my Ws anxiety, that I've lost sight of the happier stuff that we used to share. Could probably use more balance there and definitely appreciate you tossing that out. Unsure she's open to them right now, but if she ever shows interest again it'd be good to be ready to react and pivot to the happier stuff. Not holding out hope, but we will see.
Me39 M11 : T13 D9 BD 5/31/16 In House S until 6/21/17 Divorced 10/5/18
LT, just a random thought and observation. As I read other threads, including my own, I've noticed our Wives or Husbands make an appearance, as in, we catch a glimpse of the kind caring spouse they were, (yes they're crazy) but nonetheless they make an appearance. With you, I've noticed your W hasn't. Not sure it means anything, just an observation. I guess I cant picture your W as a W or a kind person.
When is she moving? If she's adamant about 90/10 custody wouldn't she have to move away for that to "happen"?
You are extremely patient and strong for still continuing to be there. You've done a great job!
Cheesyt, I've noticed the same thing. I've questioned whether it's bc we're in in house S and she feels trapped, so she acts like a sulking teenager not getting her way. Not sure, but the only positives I've seen in W are when she seems to accidentally drop her guard when W, D, and I are together at times. Infrequent, but it does give me a glimpse of how my W was.
On the acts of kindness, she doesn't really do anything to reach out. I find myself wondering if I was choking on something if she'd pretend not to know the Heimlich. She will do stuff if I ask her to, but she never offers anything. With that said, I have become extremely self sufficient and it's helped me expand my confidence. I'm working 50 hours a week, spending tons of time w/ my D, doing my own laundry, doing my own cooking, doing my own grocery shopping, and continuing with all my responsibilities around the yard and house. W used to do all of the aforementioned except for the yard and house stuff. Of course me taking that over is cake eating for W, but it's helped me to detach from her to some degree while we share the same house.
I do wonder though if becoming more independent on that stuff is counterproductive. It removes some of the "team" aspect of being M. Still unsure on this, but continuing down this path barring an offer from her to help with some of that burden. Not expecting it to come.
W would need to leave the home to split custody. I'd prepped myself for an outcome where she left the home or we sold it in November, as she was pushing hard on drafting a S agreement. She did a 180 though and appears willing to "stick it out" in our M. For what purpose, I'm unsure. could be that I'm unwilling to do less than 50/50 w/ D, or maybe W realized how difficult it is to get a job right now. whatever it is, she has not shared. She just continues to choose to be in this poor/unconstructive mood day after day. Very tiring for me and I'd imagine it's got to be very tiring for her as well.
Appreciate the words of encouragement Cheesyt! It's a grind and I'm not sure how it'll end, but I'm giving it my all.
Me39 M11 : T13 D9 BD 5/31/16 In House S until 6/21/17 Divorced 10/5/18
Yeah, I've done a handful of sessions with a DB coach and have found it helpful. She's advocated for me to find a new MC and take W there. It's been since end of November that I talked to the DB coach (who is awesome) and I'd probably be well served to do another soon. I guess I'm just frustrated and tired from the lack of any positive response from W, even when I've put myself out there for her. I know I need to rebuild the friendship but there's no opening for it. Glad you mentioned this bc I'll make an appointment tomorrow.
Some quick journaling. Took off from work yesterday at noon to go to a doctors appointment for D. Met her and W there. 3 of us were cramped in a small room waiting for the doctor for an hour. D was hanging on W the first 5 minutes or so and we were all talking. D started to hang out and joke around with me and W suddenly started up with the "would you two stop shouting" and "how about we all don't talk for 5 minutes" types of comments. D and I started talking quieter but I'm not ok with her telling us when we can and can't speak. I did not address it with her there so maybe it came off as passive aggressive but it's such a silly thing for her to say. Had a great time with D regardless.
W also said some wierd stuff. D was being silly and joking about Ws boobs. (We are pretty open about stuff). W said something to the effect of "yeah, I've got really nice boobs, it's a shame they're going to waste". Unsure how to take that. Also, we were watching a show later that day and somehow the topic of sex came up. We have had that talk with D before so she's familiar. D asked W "have you and daddy had sex" to which W responded yep, we have you don't we. Then D asked "is daddy good at sex"? W responded with I don't know but D kept asking and W just played it off. I was surprised she didn't use the opportunity to try to hurt me with a negative response there. Sad that I'm at the point that I chalk that up as a positive.
Decided to take the rest of the day off from work and told W and D I'd see them at home (drove seperately). W seemed physically angry about this. W went to the store and D and I hung out until dinner. Did dinner as a family and then we all played with the inflatable beach ball in the house until bed. Had a fun time laughing with everyone.
Not a lot outside of that. Just grinding through this thing. I did meet with L today around the new house we are talking about moving to, as well as setting up a budget, and a couple other random things. Good feedback from her and very helpful. No downside to moving right now. I did ask the L, as she sees this stuff every day and I'm assuming my situation is not different, if this thing will come to a head at some point. She said yes and it's usually because one person gets sick of it. It's what I'd thought so I'll continue steeling myself for it and also working on improving my R with my D. I need to warm up to my W some more I think but without her being open to it it's probably just wasted effort.
Heading to bed. Gym in the morning. Looking forward to the weekend with my D!
Me39 M11 : T13 D9 BD 5/31/16 In House S until 6/21/17 Divorced 10/5/18
LT, your D must be gone to school 8am-2pm or so. How does your W spend that time?
Your recap says PA w/ OM on 7/3/16. Are you 100% certain about that? Did she admit to it? Do you have incontrovertible proof, or it is more of a gut feeling?
Assuming you are certain about the PA ... how do you feel about that? Are you torn up, or did you get over it?
Me: 50, MLC/WW 45 Young kids Nov 2015: BD1 Apr 2016: BD2 Jan 2017: W filed Feb 2017: D final
My W used to spend that time cleaning the house, at Ds school volunteering, shopping for the family, etc. now she spends at least 2 hrs per day exercising, doesn't clean as often, but still does shopping for her and D. I do all the shopping and laundry for myself now. Besides those things I've no clue what she's doing.
So, W went to the lake to see the OM on 7/3. She says there were like 15 college friends there and nothing happened. The messages I saw with OM leading up to it would say otherwise. But I'm 100% sure her visit to the lake in early Aug led to a PA, even if by the tiniest chance her 7/3 trip did not. All evidence, and her comments in MC and our Aug argument shut the book on that one.
I'm in a better place with how I handle my emotions and reactions to thoughts around the PA. I won't lie that the images haunt my brain at times. It used to be that I couldn't think of anything else. Now they are less frequent and are very fleeting when they do pop in there. Still tough but I've gotten enough self awareness and control that I can let them go. Guessing they'll continue to fade as time progresses.
That said, I don't think I could ever fully get over it. It's such a massive violation of my trust and also of me as a person. Maybe it's like an open wound, where over time it heals but there is still a small scar that reminds you of it. It won't hurt anymore, but it will always be burned onto your soul. One of the large issues I have right now is that even if we, by some long shot, R would I ever be able to fully trust her again. I'll cross that hurdle when I get there.
I do feel stronger as a person because of this. I know I've grown a lot. My R with my D is the other positive outcome of all this. So this isn't all negative. No matter what the outcome with W I have so many positive takeaways from my sitch that I know the future is a bright place. It's those thingns that keep me pushing forward and have helped me through the darker side of the mistrust and PA piece of this.
By planning a week away in the spring with just D and I I've given my W a prime opportunity to see OM. I decided a while ago that worry would not sway my decision so I booked the trip. I refuse to live in fear that she will resume the PA. However I'm unsure how long I can live with someone who is actively involved with another person. So if she chooses to use that time we are gone to see OM then I'll have some decisions to make. To your point about not having your head in the sand, I'm more than willing to face the reality of the situation and face it head on. Hence the L visit yesterday to touch base and run through some scenarios and questions. W is fully free to make her choices but I will fight tooth and nail for at least 50/50 of my Ds time if W goes down that path. I can't control her but I also won't allow her to control D and I.
Sorry for the long winded response. The PA aspect has been difficult and I've put a lot of thought into it. W is free to choose her path but I'm unwilling to let her choose mine and Ds for us. At some point this comes to a head and I'll hopefully be ready for that.
Me39 M11 : T13 D9 BD 5/31/16 In House S until 6/21/17 Divorced 10/5/18
Figured I'd split my post today into two pieces. Some quick journaling.
Birthday today. Woke up early and exercises with my dad. Doing that once a week still, ever since he retired in July. Went to work and my boss had brought in breakfast for my team for my birthday. My guys brought in lunch for it too and also had a cake made. All a surprise and it was amazing how great the thought and energy from all of them made me feel. One of my better days since all this started!
Came home not expecting much from my W. Walked in the door and said hi to W and she ignored it, but I saw that W and D decorated the kitchen with banners and gifts and a cake. W bought the cake and D decorated it. Having no expectations I was peasantry surprised. I made my dinner and we all ate together on the couch. At one point I was rubbing my leg bc it itched and W asked me to stop rubbing it. Strange.
After dinner we lounged around for a bit on the couch. I snuggled with D in proximity to W that normally would have seen her get up and move or recoil away from me. She didn't move a muscle. As D moved around I found my arm touching Ws foot and W did not move it. Again, that'd normally get a recoil. Not taking anything away from it other than it's something different. Just observing.
W went upstairs so D and I could build a pillow fort with the couch cushions and D and I played in it for an hour or so. Joked and laughed with W and D for about 30 minutes after that before bed. Felt more normal tonight than it has in a while but who knows. Some strange behavior from W today.
A great day for me though. All the stuff my coworkers did for me today really helped me seemtheres a large group of people who think I'm an ok guy. The small party that W put together was a welcome surprise as well. Going to bed happier ham I've been in a while. I know this doesn't change my situation with W but it has helped my mood.
Me39 M11 : T13 D9 BD 5/31/16 In House S until 6/21/17 Divorced 10/5/18
LT, you're one hell of a guy. Happy birthday. I wish you a healthy, loving relationship in the future, regardless of who that might be.
I really appreciate everything you wrote about the PA and dealing with it. As I wrote in Gordie's thread, we each bring out own biases when reading about other people's situations. I'm actually not particularly quick nor eager to conclude that a spouse is having a PA. Anyway, I admire the way you've reflected on all of it, dealt with the pain, and are moving on.
It sounds like your W is a bit lost. Or a lot lost. If she's spending her time exercising and shopping ... that still leaves a lot of time to fritter away. I'm not saying I have some answer. I just think that her not having some direction in life, a sense of control, a sense of power and confidence ... I think it greatly adds to her dissatisfaction with your marriage.
Me: 50, MLC/WW 45 Young kids Nov 2015: BD1 Apr 2016: BD2 Jan 2017: W filed Feb 2017: D final
