Gordie: Pulling it all together

[KentS]

"This doesn't mean you should see other people or let her have it with angry words because you don't care anymore. That's not the person you want to be. But who would you want to be?

Start thinking about the answer to this question, and let this guide you every day. It may seem strange because you want to save your M, not give up on it, but giving up on it and moving forward on your own is the best thing you can do for you regardless of how she responds and what the future holds."

Right on Zeus!

DB your a$$ off as it is the right thing to do. However, It's not the only thing to do.

[Gordie]

***I believe it is simpler than what you are considering. Gordie has become the everyday ho hum. It does not matter if you are the greatest guy in the world or not. WAW's and/or WAH's have a long list of what is wrong with their spouse. We can all make that list if we choose to go there. Bottom line is your WAW has started down the path of separating from you. If this is not true, you would not be here.***

You speak the truth and I deny the truth in hopes that it one day I wake up and this has all been a nightmare. This does me no good.

***You need to prepare yourself for the path that your W has chosen. You can still be respectful, you can still be somewhat available. However, you need to exercise control over your own future, your finances and your joy.***

We're writing our separation agreement now. It's a painful process but it does require me to exercise control over my finances. I want to make sure my W and children are well taken care of but I also need to make sure I am taking care of myself too. This is leading to some painful discussions as my W is currently not rational nor is she good with money. I know her inability to manage her money well will lead to negative consequences. I know she will ask for money in the future because she will likely live above her means. She won't ask directly for herself but it will be the kids need this and the kids need that. I'm not sure how I will handle that as I don't want the kids to be the victims of her mismanagement.

***In all things protect your emotional self.***

How? I feel my heart is out there to get broken every day, some more than others. I resisted my W's efforts to get me to leave the MBR but maybe I should leave for my own sake? Is that a good idea?

***You asked how you have enabled your W. It was your own admission that you were living to hear her ping you (tele calls and text post). For her to show some sign of love. Your hope is that somehow the nightmare will just go away. Problem is, you are not in control of her nightmare, her drama. At best, you can only control Gordie. Please focus on yourself and stop trying to figure your WAW out.***

Truth--I am still more focused on her than me.

***I agree with the earlier poster that you don't know the truth about W's relationship with OM. A WAW will not tell you the truth.***

Yes, this is a distinct possibility.

***Walk away spouses also continue to try to draw their spouse into the drama. At least until they feel emotionally and financially secure to pursue their fantasy.***

What do you mean? I don't understand.

***Bottom line, is you can't do anything about your W's choices. You need to get strong, independent and start moving away from her. She needs to see it. You need to inject a little of your own choices into the equation to show it's not all about her. Stop letting the tail wag the Gordie dog.***

Thank you. Yes, but right now it is all about her. In the MLC section of the book it discusses this and how unfair it seems that it is all about the MLCS. Maybe I need to re read to figure out how to cope.

***I am in your corner Gordie. I am not so sure your WAW will turn back. Thus, I urge you to prepare and consider LRT's as I believe this saga needs to be upset. WAW needs to think her drama is about to become her reality, not yours.***

Okay. I made a change this morning. I did not kiss or hug her this morning. I'll try to pull back this week, more than ever before.

***All your growth and realization of how you blew it is great. It is necessary to confess sin and ask forgiveness. The spouse needs to honor the confession and be open to a path for healing. Unfortunately, many find it easier to give up and move on which only subjects them to a repeat performance.***

I did and she said she forgave me but it is too late.

***You on the other hand have learned much about making relationships work. Relationships are hard work. The soul mate stuff is crap.***

What do you mean the soul mate stuff is crap?

[Gordie]

I had a good session with my IC today (not my DB coach) and asked him some of the same questions I have been discussing here. I thought it might be helpful to others to hear the back and forth (as my IC knows more of the details of my situation):

Q. Is it bad to hope for reconciliation?
A. No, in your case hope is not bad, because I think your hope is realistic. You hope that R can happen in the future, but you know that it may not and are moving forward as best you can. Further, the fact that you and your W get along so well and will be in day to day contact for many years to come because of the children makes it more possible.

Q. Am I codependent?
A. No, I don't think you are codepedent. A codependent would be trying to protect her from the consequences of her behavior. You don't want your W to get hurt, but you realize that she has to go down this path herself, consequences and all. You are going to have a lot of decisions on this front to make in the future that you can't answer now.

Q. Is it wrong for me to be so generous/amicable in our settlement?
A. No, it's consistent with your character and beliefs. You want to provide for your W and children, even if you are getting divorced. You want to remain friendly with your W. You are being true to your own beliefs, which in this case are not self-serving.

Q. Is it possible to have an alpha-alpha romantic relationship?
A. W feels trapped as the follower and wants a new romantic relationship where she is the leader and the boyfriend is the follower. You don't want to be the follower. Interestingly, your W has proposed an alpha-alpha co-parenting R with you where you collaboratively raise the children and remain friends (this is a test). Yes, an alpha-alpha romantic relationship is possible, if that's what both partners want. It's good that you recognize that if you ever have a future R with your W, that it will look very different than your past R.

Q. Is it wrong to continue having sex?
A. No, you are still married and you are letting your W initiate, so you know that she wants it too. Yes, most couples who are in the process of divorcing cease having sex, but there's nothing wrong with it if you both wish to do so. The fact that you are allowing her to take the lead in the sexual relationship also may give her a sense of control/leadership that she is seeking.

[ForGump]

Thanks for sharing that Gordie. I like much of what your IC had to say.

Let me ask you something, though: once you separate or divorce, and your W is seeing someone, how are you going to feel inside? Can you feel close, and be intimate with her, while you know she's sleeping with someone else?

Not rhetorical questions. I'd like to hear how you feel about this.

[KentS]

"I resisted my W's efforts to get me to leave the MBR but maybe I should leave for my own sake? Is that a good idea?"

Why not suggest she leaves the MBR?

"Walk away spouses also continue to try to draw their spouse into the drama. At least until they feel emotionally and financially secure to pursue their fantasy"

As A WAW or WAH struggles with their choices, they feel the need to dump on those closest to them. That be you.Also, once they feel emotionally and financially secure, you are no longer need as a provider of anything. Except a weekend babysitter perhaps. Is this true of all? No. Most? Yes.They are inherently selfish at this point.

[Gordie]

ForGump,

This is something I struggle with. I anticipate feeling terrible but the truth is I don't know. Heck, W already told me she is in love with another man and it hasn't killed me yet but I know that is partly due to the fact that I don't believe they are truly in love with one another but that is merely a fantasy or delusion or infatuation. How will I feel if they are out in the open in love with one another in an actual R? It hurts to think about but let's project: I'll feel it's wrong and abandoned and betrayed and replaced and angry and sad and... Will it kill my love for her? I don't know. My problem is that I feel we will still be married even if we are technically divorced, even if she is in a R with someone else. This is stubborn and out of touch with reality, but it's how I feel now. I actually discussed this with my counselor and he said it's really hard to project how you are going to feel in the future under different circumstances. I read one other thread where the H and W continued sleeping with one another even after the WH married her AP. Does that make the XW the mistress/OW?

[J5K]

Gordie,

It's a messed up world out there. In modern days now, it is easy to get that quick high or thrill from almost anything a person wants to do.

I can tell you that since my separation and D, I still love my ex. I sense she is still angry and resents me for my actions. She is not willing to let go of the past because she still discusses the past with respect to the kids and how my actions have affected them.

I think every LBS will feel abandoned, betrayed, etc. If the WAS remarries, it's just another dip on the rollercoaster for the LBS. That is why it is key to create your own life and happiness. If they don't find you attractive because they cannot let go of the past, someone else will.

[lt0402]

ForGump,

This is something I struggle with. I anticipate feeling terrible but the truth is I don't know. Heck, W already told me she is in love with another man and it hasn't killed me yet but I know that is partly due to the fact that I don't believe they are truly in love with one another but that is merely a fantasy or delusion or infatuation. How will I feel if they are out in the open in love with one another in an actual R? It hurts to think about but let's project: I'll feel it's wrong and abandoned and betrayed and replaced and angry and sad and... Will it kill my love for her? I don't know. My problem is that I feel we will still be married even if we are technically divorced, even if she is in a R with someone else. This is stubborn and out of touch with reality, but it's how I feel now. I actually discussed this with my counselor and he said it's really hard to project how you are going to feel in the future under different circumstances. I read one other thread where the H and W continued sleeping with one another even after the WH married her AP. Does that make the XW the mistress/OW?

Gordie, I also struggled with thoughts of how I'd feel towards my W if this D went through. I think what you'll find is that with time and distance the thoughts and feelings will become less frequent and certainly less intense. In our in house S situations, I think the proximity and daily interaction makes it almost impossible to detach fully. It also makes it extremely hard to see the situation objectively and really see a positive future without our WWs. You've got the ongoing intimacy with your W which I'd assume only adds to the difficulty.

All that said, I've come to realize that life without my WW, while not optimal currently, has the potential to be great. You see posters come here off and on who are Years into their journeys and that seems to be the consistent message. Because we control ourselves, we control our future happiness and our journey. We can choose happiness and pursue it. It's just hard to see that right now as we are bogged down in this mess. To be trite, don't lose the forest for the trees.

From your writings and observations you seem to be a fairly analytical man. It's good to observe your W and how she reacts to certain things, but you can't let her reactions drive your emotions or actions. What can you be doing to pursue your own happiness right now? What will help you take your mind off this thing for 30 minutes a day? You need to give yourself a break from this thing. It's easy to get consumed by it and lose sight of yourself. Been there, done that. Find something that gets you out of the hole and back into control of yourself. Do some analysis on yourself and figure out what you want/need. Don't always put all your focus onto your W.

Rambling now, but I see a strong man here. I know you're feeling lost right now, but you are on a good path. Start working on yourself and you will feel much better brother!

[Gordie]

We are at a stalemate as we have both suggested the other leave the MBR and both of us are still there.

Yes, my W dumps on me when reality intrudes on her fantasy. I suppose that I should anticipate this getting worse after S as she will have to face more reality.

[lt0402]

Gordie, my W and I reached the same stalemate in August. Being the nice guy, I left the mbr in July when she went to see OM the first time. After the second OM visit in August I moved back into the mbr and told her she could leave it if she wanted but it was not fair to me to not be in my bed.

5 months later we are still in the stalemate, though we have not discussed it in months. Don't know that there's anything you can do if she refuses to leave the mbr. For you, I don't see any reason you should leave as this is her decision. If she really needs to be away from you then she can leave. Not your circus.

Don't anticipate anything. It's ok to strengthen yourself to face the unknown but worrying about what may happen will only drive you nuts. Run scenarios through your head and how you would react but don't dwell on the what ifs. Almost like a coach game planning for a football game. Do it as dispassionately as is possible. Again, her facing reality is her circus, not yours. No need to worry about how she reacts to it. Just worry about you and being there for your kids.