Gordie: Pulling it all together

[Seeker7]

It's funny you mention that about her childhood because I just picked up a new book on codependency and love addiction. I started to read it and it described so much about my W and it talks about how it starts by things in their childhood. I realized that there were two major things I know that would have done this.

One thing I know is that even though that I understand it I do not know enough about it to be of much use let alone be able to help her recover from it.

What I would do is not discus it with her because it is just the male mentality trying to be mister fix it when women just want to be understood. I would just show empathy and be understanding if it is brought up by her. Just remember she is in a very delicate state right now and does not want to be fixed by no one.

[Gordie]

KentS--thanks for the encouragement; If your threads are still on here, I will check them out; what has happened in the years since?

Seeker7--you are spot on; she doesn't want me to fix her, but just to listen to her and understand her, thanks for pointing that out.

Yesterday, I re read the DR section on infidelity and one of the exercises MWD encourages you to do if W doesn't want to give up partner is to ask: what is it about the OM that your W finds so attractive? Here is the humbling answer: he is like our old dog, always positive, no complaints, a great listener, doesn't criticize, obedient, doesn't question, always available, happy to just be in your presence.

[Gordie]

Funny but true comment from the W: you are really bad about initiating R talks! Ha ha ha, if she only knew.

The bad news is we're finalizing our separation agreement and I'll be moving into an apartment in the coming weeks.

The good news is that W brought up the POM last night and said she isn't ready to engage in a serious R with him yet. She says she needs to focus on herself and her business and financial independence.

This is the first time we have discussed POM since I decided not to discuss him two months ago. It took all of my self will to just listen and not ask why or what happened or start taking a victory lap around the house.

I know, believe none of what they say, but I'm thrilled.

[Seeker7]

Well that is good news about the W. It sounds like she is having second thoughts but as you said below. That was a good idea to keep your mouth shut and just listen. Just keep doing what you are doing.

[KentS]

Hey there Gordie!

Looks like most the vintage forum posts are gone. Maybe a few exist in the archives and under success stories.

Been married 23 years now. One kid married and gone, two 20 somethings remain. We live in rural America now next to small town USA.

DW and I are starting to plan for our next adventure normally called retirement. Unfortunately, we are not normal. Been looking at northern KY and AR to build or buy the retirement ranch.

Marriage relationships change over time. Most important is to give DW space to grow and do the stuff she wants to be and do. When I look back at the early years, the failure, the heartbreak, the struggle, I attribute it to my belief that when we married, we became one, like the bible states. Unfortunately, my perspective was a bit off. God gives each of us free will which we use to satisfy and fulfill our individual lives. We can't give that up or we begin to die. You can't expect your spouse to give it up either.

Life is so short. I have become anxious as I feel it slipping away day by day. I don't want to waste a moment of it embroiled in the push/pull of trying to control a relationship. The best choice, I ever made was to drop the rope and focus on my own goals, knowing I could never succeed at controlling my spouse. Next thing I knew, 15 years have disappeared and we are still together by choice.

Marriage is never easy once you get past the breeding stage. Love is about commitment and it is a deliberate decision. The feelings of love change like waves breaking on the beach. They are unreliable and cannot be trusted.

You can't make choices for your W and any attempt to figure her out will fail. If you are separating by her decision, I say separate. She needs a taste of life without you covering for her, financing her, enabling her. On the other hand, you will be awesome with all you have learned in this experience. Once you leave, it may not be over, but you need to establish boundaries for your own sanity.

Don't waste a moment of life my friend.

[ForGump]

Gordie-- sorry to hear you're separating.

POM-- again, your W's feelings are real, but he's a delusion.

[Gordie]

KentS,

Congratulations on 23 years and the retirement ranch plans! Awesome. Either you are wise or have been eavesdropping.

My W said she felt like she died in our M so to her, she has fulfilled until death do we part.

Yes, I can't control my W and she is insisting on this separation and probably divorce because she says she needs to be free. It just breaks my heart to lose what is most important to me--my wife and my intact family.

I agree love is a commitment and a decision, not a feeling. The strange thing is, W says she is still in love with me. But I do think she questions and wants to test what she will choose and decide to do once our present M is over--choices and decisions she feels she is not free to make now.

I believe and have communicated that there is no love in an involuntary union and that both parties must freely choose it. I hope W chooses to unite with me at a later point but fully accept that she is not doing so at present.

What are your suggestions re boundaries?

[Gordie]

So W and I are discussing S agreement last night. We agree on almost everything. W says something which ticks me off and I respond in a way that ticks her off. Ugh. Then she says, this is why I want a D! Ugh. She explains why she was ticked off and I apologize but her feelings are hurt and my feelings are hurt.

W: do you know why I told you why I was ticked off?
Me: yes, because you were ticked off
W: and I wouldn't have told you that in the past
Me: so you would have held it in?
W: yes, and then what would have happened?
Me: you would be angry and resentful
W: so do you know why I told you?
Me: so you can express your feelings, let go of them, and change the way I talk to you?
W: yes (and then she gives me a long hug)

W is opening up to me and making efforts to work on our issues...yet, we're full speed ahead to separation and probably D...W keeps telling me she loves me and our R will be better after we separate...

LET HER GO...detach, don't pursue, be there for my kids, don't give up love, don't give up hope...maybe I can be one of those that reconciles after separation and divorce?

[Gordie]

Need to vent:

Some days I'm good; today I'm not so good. I'm not detached. I'm still letting W's moods dictate how I am feeling. One day she is warm and friendly; the next she is icy cold. Ugh. I'm still on her roller coaster. I'm not calling or texting her, but I still check my phone 10x a day hoping that she is reaching out to me. My expectations are still >0. Finally, given our 20 year marriage, her lack of income, and our large number of children, the separation agreement numbers are looking to be terrible for me. Ugh.

[PacLove]

Gordie,

These days are completely natural - I had plenty of ups and downs over the last 2 years. days where I was waiting for her texts and days where I barely thought of her and was able to detach.

The fact that she's opening up to you on feelings and being transparent is a good sign. Give her the space. Hold out hope but at the same time work on yourself and try not to focus on her but on the positive change you can bring about in yourself.