Keep Wearing Wedding Band? [Thread #7]

[Jug]

Gump- I'm sorry about the news. I absolutely know how you feel as I'm basically dealing with the same stuff. I'm happy that you have an attitude of acceptance and I have been repeating to myself that I will deal with what comes and have probably faced the worst already. Hang in there.

[JRuss]

Thanks for encouraging me to do this ahead of time, though. This is my reality and I need to confront it.

Yeah, it's so bad when I look and try to research this stuff that I frequently have to take a break just to cope and not have a panic attack. Then I think better to suffer through it now than to put my head in the sand and not be fully informed and let my W do whatever she wants, which always seems to be based on anecdotal evidence from just one friend's divorce experience and not well thought out at all.

[lt0402]

FG, I agree with you. If my W is going to force us to D then I have also don't want to blur the custody line. It seems like it'd be brutal for us to have to deal with them in that type of situation. I'm unsure how you'd be able to establish/maintain a healthy R with someone else while living that way.

I couldn't agree more with you guys that being prepared, no matter how awful it is to do it, is the way to go. Head in the sand is not the solution. I remind myself that no matter how queasy it makes me feel to research stuff like custody, it'd be much worse to be blindsided because I'm not educated on it. Knowledge for us truly is power. It's power over our own emotional swings, as well as keeping us from making emotional choices. Grit your teeth and grind through it. Know what you want so you can respond quickly and confidently.

JR, my W has lobbed out the same anecdotal nonsense about how other "normal" couple friends of ours both deal with divorce and their Ms. W seems to bend what she perceives from these situations to fit her picture of how things should be with us. It's not well thought out and is very maddening at times. I'd hate to see what my Ds and my life looked like if I left it all up to W. I picture a soviet era prison camp in Siberia...

FG, keep moving forward my friend. Arm yourself with knowledge. You know what to do. You'll be ok through this, just keep grinding brother.

[ForGump]

Maybe it would be best for my kids if -- after the divorce -- I can carry on w/ my wife as best friends, stopping at all hours to spend time with kids and help with childcare, and she does so vice versa. I think my wife would be OK with that, since she's the one that has lost her romantic feelings for me.

I can't do that.

[Gordie]

Maybe it would be best for my kids if -- after the divorce -- I can carry on w/ my wife as best friends, stopping at all hours to spend time with kids and help with childcare, and she does so vice versa. I think my wife would be OK with that, since she's the one that has lost her romantic feelings for me.

I can't do that.

What you wrote just clicked with me...I think that's what my W wants...us to be best friends (with benefits)...with a lot of fluidity regarding custody...and a lot of family time...but not be married...need to think about that...

If you can't do that...then you can't do that...does your W know that you can't do that? Is that a point of conflict in your negotiation?

[ForGump]

Gordie, I'm not certain that she knows it. I think she does, since she already suggested a post-divorce living arrangement where we live as housemates, and I said I can't do that. But she may still harbor some view of a future where there is this fluid and frequent co-mingling of our lives. I think some of this will become apparent and have to be negotiated during the divorce process where we have to submit a parenting plan to the court. But I have been reluctant to drive that negotiation forward, because I don't want to divorce and I don't want to help her get a divorce. It is her deal. But at the right time I intend to make it clear, if it is necessary to make it clear, that I cannot do that.

The most basic reason I cannot do something like that is that I just cannot emotionally do it. That is not me. I am not OK sharing my wife (or ex-wife in the future) with another man. It kills me to think about it. It burns a hole in my heart. I don't her to be with another man, and I don't want my kids to have another father figure. I want to be that, nobody else.

I buy into E. Perel's ideas about mating in captivity, the inherent paradox of (not) wanting something you already have. But (like Perel herself says), the solution isn't to give in to those impulses, because that doesn't buy you happiness and healthy relationships either.

I also believe that if I were to crumple to the situation and meekly accept it, if I were to communicate to her, "Gee, honey, OK, I'm so desperate and needy I will accept you seeking other men", that fuels her dissatisfaction with me, as an unattractive, emasculated male.

[Gordie]

What did your DB coach say about your W's proclaimed lack of sexual attraction to you when everything else in your M seems like it is good? Does your W say more than that or just leave it at that?

It's one part of your story that I have no advice or experience. It seems common on these boards that there are people who fall in love and do have sexual attraction to one another...lose it over time (the mating in captivity phenomenon)...

Is it something where you have some influence (ability for one person to change the dynamic)?

*Your emotional connection to one another (including too much familiarity, lack of pursuit/lack of mystery)
*Your personal appearance/hygiene
*Your sexual history/dysfunction
*Your sexual activity (too boring, don't know how to turn her on, too fast, not enough foreplay, too tired/hard with kids around, differences in libido)

Is it something where you have no influence whatsoever?

*Her personal background/history/mental health (as you've indicated)
*Her personal sexual interests/dysfunction (you haven't indicated this issue)

Something else altogether?

I don't mean to pry, but just trying to throw these questions out to you in the hopes that it helps--whether for this R or the next one, so you don't repeat. Ignore all, if it doesn't help.

[ForGump]

Gordie--

Thanks for your post. Good questions, you are not prying and I enjoy being asked questions.

My coach didn't have anything direct to say about the lack of sexual attraction. But her guidance so far is to work on seeing things from her perspective and to sympathize with her; so the implication, I believe, is that there are things that I did that eroded her attraction to me.

My W has never articulated to me why her attraction to me is gone. I think some of that is that she truly doesn't know it in a rational way -- that's just not how she thinks. And some of it is that it is extremely difficult for her to talk about it. So a mix of the two.

My own understanding of this, at this point, is that it's a mix of many things. Much of it is certainly my actions in the marriage. I think a lot of the conflict and a lot of my demeanor towards her -- coupled with my always being Mr. Nice Guy/Mr. Fix It guy, the parental figure -- subconsciously conveyed a sense of me not respecting her, me not seeing her as an independent, powerful, sexual partner. Somehow all of that translates to a feeling of not being wanted. And I also believe, because of her personality as formed by her upbringing and childhood, she is powerfully addicted to emotional highs. And she needs those emotional highs far more than ... well, me. So that amplifies her disappointment in my inability to make her feel pursued and desired. And on the flipside that amplifies the high she gets from wanting someone else, someone new.

As for my own sexual health ... I am sure there is a lot more I can do to be a better sexual partner. I'm fairly sure it's not my hygiene (I asked her directly about this), and I don't have problems in terms of levels of desire and in the physical ability to have sex. I think I can exude a more confident vibe, to let go some of my overthought inhibitions ... and I've been working on this as much one can during a separation. But the real hurdle is that if your partner is unwilling to talk about any of this, as my W has been, it's really hard to know how to go forward.

[Gordie]

***My W has never articulated to me why her attraction to me is gone. I think some of that is that she truly doesn't know it in a rational way -- that's just not how she thinks. And some of it is that it is extremely difficult for her to talk about it. So a mix of the two.***

It's really hard when our W's won't talk to us about the issues...but so, so common...and leaves it in our court to do as MWD says, experiment and monitor results...approach with actions, not words...are you still willing to experiment at this stage? Seeing that your W won't talk to you...can you radically change (180s) any of the following non-sexual things and see if it makes a difference?

*Mr. Nice Guy--how would you act/dress/interact if you were the bad boy? Take some chances.

*Parental figure--what would it look like if you were the complete opposite? Romeo?

*She feels unwanted/addicted to emotional highs--what would help? time/attention? words of affirmation? acts of service? gifts? a weekend away? a romantic dinner for two? something totally unexpected and out of character? Mysterious?

*Appearance/hygiene--do you try to look/smell your best every time you are going to see your W? Women are much better than men about this, in general.

*Does your W like non-sexual touching/is she still open to it? Holding hands? Hugging? Massages? Cuddles? Sitting close to one another?

Side note: you know what makes me mad? This: "And on the flipside that amplifies the high she gets from wanting someone else, someone new." When I compliment my W she ignores me; when another guy compliments her, she melts into an emotional puddle.

[ForGump]

I got a call from the front desk at my work. There's someone here to see me. My heart starts to thump. I thought, this is it. I'm being served. This is the end of my marriage.

It turned out to be someone else.

I thought I would be more ready, mentally and emotionally. This revealed to me that despite the nearly year long separation, despite all of my DB-ing, despite all of my mental preparation to let her go, I haven't really let her go.

How much more wrenching can this little fist sized muscle, the heart, take?