Newby here . . . (Thread 7)

[ForGump]

p.s. BTW, I'm leaning towards a 3-4-4-3 or 7-7 arrangement. I saw the light on the downside of too many transitions. But the natural conclusion, when I think about this, is that ANY transition is bad. The ideal living arrangement is:

1.

You just stay in one house.

[JRuss]

FG -- we're pretty much past the negotiations. Custody is agreed to (50/50, 2-2-5-5 initially), as is most of the property chopping. She'll be serving me sometime this week, I think.

She took the kids with her yesterday to meet with a realtor and look at potential houses for her new life. It was hard thinking about that, and I was driving myself crazy ruminating, so I took a 2 hour+ walk and felt a lot better. This is a bad patch with the settlement discussions, meeting with the attorney, getting served soon and her really starting to ramp up her steps to get out (saw on our shared home computer that she's been search Craigslist for washers and dryers and couches, and that was more painful for some reason than I would have thought). It's a done deal, which is heartbreaking, but hopefully we'll go into a bit of a lull soon where we're just waiting for the 90 day mandatory wait time to run, and there's not another major event along the D road right in my face.

The one good thing is that my kids seem to be doing ok with it. S10 was previously showing some issues with rage, but we've both been doing a lot of talking and reassuring him, and he's seemed to calm quite a bit. Obviously going to stay on top of that. D13 has a depressingly large number of friends at school who are in divorced families, and she really doesn't seem to be that stressed out about it. She's not a still-waters-run-deep type of person, so I think we'd all know if she was really struggling, but, again, I'm just trying to watch and observe and keep the lines of communication open.

[JRuss]

Oh, and I very much agree on the 1 house thing. But it takes two to want that. If you have one half of the couple motivated by a desire to blow up her life and start a new one, then no amount of personal growth or DBing or GALing or any of that is going to matter, because it's really the fact that you are you that's the perceived problem. Some people, like me, take great joy and pride in building a long, stable, happy home life. And some people hear the ticking clock of their mortality, and it tortures them to think that this (wife and mother) might end up defining them and being their sole accomplishments in life.

[Gordie]

So how is it with everyone still under the same roof with the 90 day clock ticking? Any change in how you guys interact with one another and the kids?

[ForGump]

JR,

Glad to hear your kids are doing OK w/ it. Not too surprised about D13 -- most teens in that age are so wrapped up in themselves, their circles of friends, and developing their own identity, that I think they'd be more worried about how/whether the logistical ramifications of the divorce will affect their social life. At least on the surface. Maybe underneath the surface, in the long run, it has more important psychological ramifications. My IC said as long as one parent is mature, stable and nurturing, kids will do OK. Obviously 2 such parents are better.

If possible, can you articulate a bit more about what your S10 was feeling? Did he resent you two? Did he blame himself? Was he angry about practical aspects of things, or ...?

My two kids are in approx similar age range as yours, and I fear a similar problem w/ ours....

BTW, I wonder if your W is having some type of a midlife crisis, and it's tied to some traumatic aspect of her growing years. And -- to state the obvious, maybe -- this is as much about a person's philosophy of life as it is about their day-to-day emotional equilibrium. If you don't know how to feel happy and fulfilled on a day-to-day basis by living in a stable, loving, supportive partnership, then you are going to get sick of your marriage at some point. I suspect your W has difficulty w/ that, and that has roots back in her whole life including childhood, not just your marriage. I know this is speculation -- but am curious what you think.

[JRuss]

Gordie -- the 90-day clock isn't technically ticking but will start doing so sometime this week when I get served. Practically speaking, it usually takes more like 100 days to get everything done because the court's docket fills up, and it's hard getting a date for a final hearing right at 90 usually. In terms of how we interact, the kids now know and even know the approximate timing. Both of us have been doing a fair amount of one-on-one talking with the children. THe kids are actually a little more relaxed, at least outwardly. In terms of interactions with W, she seems more at peace now that she knows she's getting what she wants, and I've stopped overtly trying to save things, and she's less prone to picking fights or being overtly hostile. I've gotten better at not telegraphing to the entire family how I'm feeling. That was a weak point of mine. I'm still really, really down about losing this four-person family, but it was hurting my kids to see their Dad upset, sad, etc. And, from time to time, I'm able to generate real enthusiasm for this new life that's coming whether I want it to or not.

FG -- it's hard to know exactly what S10 was/is feeling because he isn't really able to articulate it. I think some combination of fear/anxiety, sadness and anger (hmmm, I recognize those things). Anyway, it translated into bouts of very angry yelling and throwing stuff around his room several times over a few week period, where the reaction really didn't fit the underlying stimuli (e.g., his sister would needle him or something, and he'd go off the reservation). He's calmed considerably since we told him that, while it is going to happen (he was hoping it wouldn't somehow), it's going to unfold pretty slowly, and all of us are going to be ok. He has in the past told me that he's angry at this mother (he understands the general dynamic: she's unhappy and wants this, I don't, etc.). I haven't brought it up again with him, but hopefully some of my W's talks with him have helped there. The weak part of me felt gratitude that my boy "had my back", but the sane part quickly realized him being angry is no good for him at all (even if he's right to have some anger at her, I think). He needs to love both parents and not mess his head up thinking about they whys and why nots of our M.

Re midlife crisis, no real traumas in her childhood other than her parents being in a not great marriage. They apparently fought a lot -- lots of bickering, with mom doing a lot of passive aggressive stuff, apparently. My wife must have taken good notes, but I digress. Anyway, they figured it out somehow (getting their kids raised surely helped), ended up quite happy and just had their 50th anniversary. There was a lesson there, but W chose not to see it. She had three siblings all closely bunched in terms of age, and she was 3/4 in birth order. I think she didn't get a lot of individualized attention, for what that's worth. She would go to her room and fantasize about magical, exciting things. Still does, I think.

If you have any interest in such things, check out The Enneagram personality stuff. My W is a type 4, and the descriptions of what goes on their heads when they aren't happy overall with their life is eerily spot-on. Learning about that helped me some because I realized we were always going to end up here given my W's persistent inability to make that leap to understanding that happiness, if you're going to have it, emanates from inside you. It isn't given to you by another person or by life experiences or any of that. Gratitude for what life is -- instead of dreaming of what it could instead be -- is her biggest personal growth obstacle, and she shows no signs of getting moving.

[ForGump]

Will check out the Enneagram better. It seems to me that the "type 4" personality, if taken to a pathological degree, becomes borderline personality disorder, where your sense of satisfaction and identity is completely beholden to others: you only feel happy if someone likes you, loves you, wants you; you only feel sexual desire if someone wants you.

How did you handle your initial "big talk" w/ your kids? Did you do the 10 & the 13 year old together? How did you phrase the overall reason for breaking up? "We're not getting along?" "We're not happy together?"

Thanks.

p.s. I have been thinking about how I'm going to set up my new home -- my way -- and that brings me a certain measure of happiness.

[JRuss]

We didn't really ever have the classic sit down. They unfortunately heard several of our fights and knew a long time ago things were bad. And they both have known for a long time that their mother is driving the bus. Recent efforts have mainly been relatively frequent one-on-ones by both parents. It has always sounded like you guys did a much better job insulating your kids from the realities of your sitch, so they probably do need a more formal sit down, as they really might still not realize it's happening and need that moment of realization to be with parents there. Hopefully your W is on her A game for that; I know you will.

[Gordie]

Like ForGump, I'm close to sit down time. How did your kids know your W was driving the bus in terms of wanting D? Did you tell them or did they just know. I know the advice is often for parents to say we decided...but that seems dishonest.

[ForGump]

I know the advice is often for parents to say we decided...but that seems dishonest.

I've felt the same. My IC said often kids know more than you give them credit for, and it's ok to acknowledge that the parents can't agree to stay together. I will have to get a clarification on this from my IC. I'm fairly sure my kids know who the unhappy one is.