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#2724663 01/08/17 03:10 PM
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Link to my last thread found here:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2724442&page=1

Even though I am still sick I am taking down all the Christmas decorations today. It is sunny and 75 degrees here and it makes me feel like it is July. And that freaked me out given h's recent request. I couldn't take it anymore with tissue in hand, I de-assemble.

I started small so he would see the boxes. He didn't say a word. Then later he came in, looked at the tree and said he guessed it was done. I joked it was begging for Dr. Kevorkian.

I was impressed he was ready to let it go given his issues with the holiday. Last year he practically had a tantrum.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
HaWho #2724717 01/09/17 02:25 AM
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Welcome to your new thread.

I have not much to say that will help you. I think it is good that H is sharing his issues with you. It is great that he is comfortable enough to do so. Some depressed people share such stuff because they are feeling sorry for themselves and want others to do so as well.

In your place I would probably review my validationphrases to be sure to have appropriate ones if he opens up again. Maybe you are better at validation than me, but no harm improving it. He needs to feel heard.

Realising he went through such tough times and is again can only help you.Feel empathy for him but not pity.

Also it has to help to know there is a reason/an identifiable cause for his mlc. Most lbs never know why this happened.

Best wishes


R 25 years
M 14 years
S11 & S13
Working on it alone since Oct 2014
M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years)
Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr.
Next R chat Aug'17
Still together
roist #2725416 01/12/17 03:18 PM
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Thanks Roist. That is very good advice.

So, I am finally on the mend over here. H has been very helpful and each day asks if I feel better. (Probably he hopes I will worsen so he openly can chase down other prospects.)

Each day he has been preparing this nutritional drink for all of us. Last night he personally delivered it to me. It was sweet but boy did he look sheepish. Truly, he looked like a teen who was forced to pitch in despite the fact that it was all self-initiated. I praised and ohhed and ahhhed.

A few days ago we were both in the kitchen. H asked how I felt and other than that there was silence. It was awkward. It often is. Then minutes later, via text, from down the hall, he offered to do a few things as I was still sick. So I sent a text back and accepted but told him he was going to get fat by texting from down the hall vs. walking out to speak. He texted back and said he was tired of staring at the back of my head and that texting delivered more of a response! Hmm. He notices that I don't pay him too much attention?!?

So I said I did not mean to be rude but just assume he wants to be left alone as he is almost always behind a closed door. He responsed that he likes talking to me provided I don't act crazy or jump on his every word. (Maybe I did this during my depression?!?) Or maybe he's projecting. In any case, he had a moment where he remembered he does enjoy my conversation and he admitted it. I will try engaging him in more conversations and see how that goes.

He had to take care of a financial issue for me and was like his old self about it. Very easy going. It is something he would have freaked about over the summer. Afterwards he texted me and told me he was my night in shining armor. I praised and validated. He told me I needed to bake x for him. I said sure.

I assume he is temp checking.

The other day he returned home with his shoes in hand. s11 asked him why. H seemed flustered. He was over explaining. I think he was worried about how it looked to me. (Like he'd been chased out of some woman's house or something.) I never heard the whole story; just didn't care. I was up the stairs as he was talking. I realized he could be out front in the bushes with someone for all I care.


Other than that? He is listening to the same 5 or 6 depressing songs.

I live with my headphones on my head.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
HaWho #2726096 01/17/17 09:01 PM
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Things are quiet over here, eerily so. H keeps to his room and yet not always. When he is out of the dorm room he is back to his old favorite spot in the house. Every time I see him there, I am visibly startled. He gets me every time. It's like one of the ghosts that pop out in the Sixth Sense. Sometimes, out of my lips slips a surprised "oh, you're out of your room."

Other changes over the last month: he sometimes looks me in the eye. And he now always "sees" the dog and talks to him the way he used to do. It is endearing.

Last week, when I mentioned to him that he was always behind a closed door he told me he is sick a lot and "stays hidden." I do think this is a child coming forward. For those who have followed along, he was not well cared for as a child (at all) and I know he was frequently treated as a nuisance when he was sick. I am guessing he is in his safe place.

The kids and I offer to bring him tea or offer him help otherwise. (My boys are amazingly kind when I am sick!)

I forgot to mention that when we were back east, the first night we shared a bed, h made a derogatory comment about my pajamas. And indeed they were (intentionally) unattractive. Don't get me wrong, I wasn't wearing food stained sweats to bed, but the pjs were, well, let's just say, very comfy.

H made a snide comment that he guessed it wasn't going to be a teddy kind of night. I ignored it completely but it did shock me. Had I a quicker tongue I would have truth darted him and reminded him of his oh-so-charming letter. The idea of wearing anything sexy around him makes me feel like I would be playing out a scene from Mrs. Robinson.

A few months back one of my cousin's from Europe reached out and asked to come visit in the spring. I have only met him once. I had huge anxiety over it given h's reaction to family visiting last spring. I was trying to come up with an excuse to spare myself the experience but I just couldn't. I want to see them. They are good people and this will be one of the few times (maybe the only time) my kids will meet his kid. It may be the only time I meet their girl, too!

On a very sad note, they are coming 12 hrs. via plane, [with child in tow] to see me and h's family can't be bothered to visit. My MIL has never visited. She says she cannot leave her cat with her h. Ugh. My 105 lb. sister comes on a 12 hr. plane trip alone with her special needs son and my MIL can't leave her cat?!? My family is just tougher stock.

Fortunately cousin's wife does not speak English too well. And my cousin's English is decent but not stellar. I was hoping cousin would think the weird conversations w/h were due to his own misunderstanding of the English language. But now cousin says he is brushing up on his English and so is his wife! Ahhhh. And over the last few months email correspondence with cousin shows his English is indeed improving at an alarming rate!! Maybe I can convince h to learn and speak a language completely foreign to the rest of us?

I was also going to tell cousin that in America all h's sleep as far away from their wives as possible. Unfortunately, they are also visiting my other two siblings so they will see this is false. I will have to settle with telling them that things just work differerently here on the west coast.

I never told h they were coming. I just couldn't deal with it yet. At Xmas dinner my siblings started to discuss the visit and then I just dropped it on h that they were coming here, too. He seemed to take it well. He mentioned that they should see x,y and z before they leave. It did not seem to produce the same anxiety in him that he had last year. We'll see how that goes as the date approaches.

If I am getting a read that he's going to go back to his hunger strike (because he thinks I am poisoning him), I will recommend that he get away from the stress of it all. This will be hugely embarrassing and insulting that he isn't here to meet them but may be necessary for my own sanity.

Otherwise, the MLC beat goes on . . .


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
HaWho #2726172 01/18/17 11:02 AM
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Quote:
H made a snide comment that he guessed it wasn't going to be a teddy kind of night.


You should have said "Well, hubby, you're not wearing your thong".

But honestly - his comment shows that on some secret level he was hoping maybe you would get intimate when you were forced to share a bed. If you want to reconcile you're going to have to figure out a way to forgive him for the crazy sh!t that he wrote when he was out of his mind.

kml #2726188 01/18/17 11:57 AM
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"I have read that the first 6 months after BD, they are on a high. They think escape was the elixir. I saw it with my own h who acted like a cheerleader heading to prom. Then, at about 6 months he did have the crash. It didn't fix a thing. He began to try other fixes."

Hi HaWho! I saw the above post on Altair's thread and wanted to ask you more about this, but I didn't want to hijack her thread. So here I am.

I would love to know more about this. Do you recall where you read this? My H is now at the 6 month mark so I am very curious about this.

Thanks for your help!!

FightOn #2726190 01/18/17 12:11 PM
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Fighton- always feel free to hijack my thread in the future! We shall see what HaWho has to say. In my case, H was maybe not high per se, but ACTIVATED. Motivated to do all bank stuff, move out every scrap, set up his apartment, get furniture, etc. It kept him very excitedly busy, which i guess was the high (?). But yeah, I think that stopped. Stopped working on apartment, stopped hanging photos-- probably on to the next fix.


me 42 H 32
T 7yr
M 6yr
BD 5/2016 ILYBNILWY
Separated 7/2016
Altair #2726198 01/18/17 12:47 PM
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KML -male thong - LOL! I know on an intellectual level you are right. And having seen him at his worst, I know there is a very real chance he does not even remember what he wrote in that letter. Re: teddy-gate, I was so shocked that he even thought of me that way. Still am. He just made it so clear that I was not at all what he wanted anymore. It probably seems cold to him if he does not remember the letter but I can't just pretend it didn't happen.

Fighton - the 6 month euphoria is probably a question for Job? I know she has written this in other people's threads. Maybe I saw it in Ciluzen's? The idea being that after they move out or get the divorce they are on a sort of high. They think this is "the fix." But somewhere around 6 months they realize it didn't heal their pain. This doesn't mean they are done and start to process, rather, they look for other fixes now.

And I saw this first hand. For the months after h told me he was "done," h was giddy as a school girl. He was occupied in all the busy-ness of this new phase of his life. He was still angry as a hornet and depressed but I think he was living off the high of change. He even told me he just needed to change his life. I think he just wanted to do anything. And I think at first he loved the freedom, until it seemed to grow stale. Then he started trying other external fixes. He still is.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
HaWho #2726204 01/18/17 01:07 PM
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Hi HaWho,
As usual... You seem cool as a cucumber. Glad you are feeling better.

Wanted to chime in on this timeline as I've kind of seen the same thing myself. The first 6-9 months, stbx was definitely livin large. He was planning parties at my house that would occur after I moved out, right in front of me. I remember him throwing his hands in the air shouting, I just want to have fun! Well, at the 6-9 month mark, he took a deep dive and didnt seem to be happy with his decision at all. He would even tell me that he wasn't having fun and he wasn't happy... This isn't what he wanted. (that didn't make him want to work on the m... Just search for more happiness). 6 months later.. He still couldn't find it, and felt that he was "ready to move on" and he filed for the D. i think it's very cyclical.


Me- 30's H- 40's
T-10 M-5
I moved out b/c he wanted space- June 15
D filed by H: September 16
Pax_luv #2726244 01/18/17 07:04 PM
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Hi HW. Popping in to check on you smile

In my H, I have definitely seen different stages of "highs". And yes, they each seem to last 6 to 9 months. It was all about freedom and partying with mystery friends at BD.

Then he moved out and his excitement was like watching a teenager move into his first place. He bought new stuff, shared lots of ideas for his place....2 years later it is unkempt and run down. His canopy that covers his precious truck has been ripped off since summer.

Then it became work. He is now a workaholic, it certainly runs his life. At first he was excited about his promotion, big ideas to make changes....now it's complaining and exhaustion.

I am waiting to see what his next fix will be, it's about that time for change.

Take care HW, you sound good smile


Me 48 H 46 S 11
M 2004
BD 8/13
H moved out 2/15
-live in the present, enjoy the beauty around and within you, explore your new future-
mleigh4 #2726737 01/22/17 03:13 PM
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Thanks Pax and MLeigh. Funny, now that you mentioned it, I went back and realized many of h's "fixes" lasted about 6-9 months. Remember the buying up spare car parts!! Ugh. The latest is he is back to buying all sorts of junk to spruce up his room. Three packages alone came on Friday.

Yesterday I woke up and all this MLC craziness flashed before my eyes. It all went through my mind: the anger, the loser friends, the avoidance, the paranoia, etc. It was like one of those flip books.

The morning started out okay until s13 mentioned something very derogatory that was said about a girl. Lots of objectifying language. H was in the room and I came down like an anvil about it. I reminded s13 that the girl is way more than how she looks; she is someone's daughter, sister, granddaughter, etc. and that boy should know better. (I had just read something by Brene Brown that said the worst thing you can do about body shaming is give it the silence it needs to grow.)

H tried to lighten the situation and I went in deeper. I know he knew that this talk could apply to him, too. And I meant for it to do so. He's been so superficial in MLC; it's nauseating. I do think my own hurt and anger surfaced in the talk. I tried to examine this and whether I should have been more neutral. Am I over emotional on this issue now? But I decided I don't really care. It's just wrong.

H retreated to his room and sulked the whole day. Just like old times. Maybe I went in too hard but having faced a lot of his superficiality, he needs a major re-direct in this area. And s13 received the same lecture as it's best to nip this in the bud. Wrong is wrong.

Speaking of superficiality, h saw his old friend this week. He joked he was going to see how much more he had balded since he last saw him. I texted back that this was indeed very deep of him. He joked back but he really needs some growth in this area. He is stuck. Sometimes I feel like I am about to say something I will regret.

He also told us how much he felt he's aged these last few years and how x person's wife said she felt the same. Groan. He had the classic line that he realized he was old when he was with a similarly aged friend and deduced if that friend was old, he must be, too. I just turned the elevator music in my head up.

The rest of the day he ignored me completely. He was back to pretending I wasn't in the room, talked only to the kids, etc. I know the beat to this song and dance.

Later in the day, I remembered this party we were at 20 years ago, and this married guy who hit on of one my friends who was significantly younger than him. He used a really sleazy/cheesy line and everyone laughed about it for forever and a day. Everyone at the party knew he was married! I reminded h of it and said the guy had made such a fool of himself. H did not laugh. He once knew this was a foolish thing for a married 55 year old man to do; it was such a colossal cliché. Now? H was testy and told me he was tired of this women's lib. day. (I knew he was sore about that morning talk, too.)

Here's a doozy. We ran out of paper and I asked s13 to ask h if he had any. H asked him how many sheets he needed and then counted them out. Geez.

The kids had plans yesterday and I spent the day off by myself. In a book store I stumbled upon this article about the importance of intimacy for human health. I knew one paragraph in I should have stopped reading it but I just had to find out all the ways I was being short changed. It was a drainer of a read.

I cheered myself up by taking a long walk and talking to dog owners.

Today h is still a bit sulky but a touch better than yesterday though.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
HaWho #2726752 01/22/17 08:16 PM
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Hi Hawho, kudos to you on nipping you s's comments in the bud. The last thing the world needs is another objectifying/superficial person and I think it's great you corrected your s, he will remember that and be a better person. Our mlc spouses certainly aren't good role models in that area. I can't believe some of the things I've heard my w say.

I hear you on the getting old/aging talk, it's so ridiculous. It's become commonplace for my w now, even talking about people only 5 years older than us, lol. The other day the was looking at me weird then rushed towards me. Omg, what could it be? I thought I had a spider on my shoulder. Nope, she said "I thought I saw a gray hair but it was just the sun."

As always I enjoy your posts, you are an inspiration for me to keep digging for patience though this.

Kyh #2727187 01/25/17 11:56 AM
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Hi HaWho!

Good for you standing up for that young girl. You are setting a great example for S13.

Your H and my H should get together. They can complain about getting old in each other's company and spare us the agony of listening to them. With my H, I figure if he is actually boiling over and giving a voice to those complaints, then the chatter in his head must be a thousand fold. How miserable they must be coming to grips with the reality that they aren't going to be 25 forever.

Like Kyh, I wanted to let you know that I admire your strength and patience. My H has recently started the whole business about talking to everyone in the room besides me. I find it utterly frustrating and infuriating. You are handling it beautifully.

FightOn #2727192 01/25/17 12:30 PM
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I think it was right to weigh in on the objectification issue. And yes, some of your own hurt may have come through - but you have been hurt and are human - and so be it. If one is going to write letters like that to people, they do have an impact...

I've been thinking about the objectification theme lately and a few friends of mine are active on dating sites and apps. I'm sure sites really vary, but some of the main ones sound to very much have an objectifying culture - for both genders. I really don't like it...

Hope tomorrow is a better day for you HaWho xx


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Sotto #2727728 01/29/17 09:30 AM
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Thanks KYH, Fighton and Sotto. Good to hear from you all.

Oh, onward marches the obsession with aging. Here's a conversation h and I had recently. We are all in the kitchen together. I have a box of cereal out and I ask h if he wants some, too. H: I don't know (very Eeyore-like). Me (confused): you don't know if you want cereal?!? H (very serious): I am too old to make the decision.

He is quiet over here. I don't see any anger surfacing. But he seems very aware of the kids. He pays attention to where they are, when will they be home, etc. And he is parenting again with a new awareness. S13 is starting to test boundaries and thankfully h provides backup: determining when S13 needs to be home and backing me up when I set ground rules.

But here's an oddity. One night, before a bath, h asked if we had any goggles in the house! S11: "why do you need goggles for the bath?" H: "because I remember it being fun to look at the water with goggles." I hand him the goggles and he trots off to the tub, sloughing off s11's giggles.

I am helping s11 with homework and above us we can hear h in the tub! It sounds like we have a mermaid in there. S11 and I can't stop laughing at the noises as we imagine what else could produce those sounds.

Lately he is making "points." We were in the driveway about to head out in his car when I realized I had left my wallet in my car and my keys back in the house. I asked h if he could open my car so I could grab the wallet. He made a point of saying I was lucky he had the key to my car as he normally does not keep it on his chain. (And for a while I noticed he had removed it and assumed it was for his double life.) I guess the point he's making is: I am separated from you.

Then days ago we were in the car and h had made a cover of a song I happen to like. He probably knows I like it but he likes it, too. I told the boys I liked the song a lot. H must have thought I was fishing to see if the song was for me. Hah! He started to say that the ONLY reason he covered the song is because it happened to be tuned perfectly for this song and so he played it. Got it! You don't want me getting any ideas that you're thinking of me. I wanted to say: I know it's not for me because I am waaaay too old for you.

Other than that he is in his room. Yesterday, I wanted to go in there and scream: DUH! You are depressed!! Go get some meds.

As for me? I found a new, better job. I start tomorrow. I am nervous.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
HaWho #2727729 01/29/17 09:42 AM
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Congratulations on the new job! You'll do just fine...just be yourself and remember...DB those that pluck your nerves! LOL!

Your h is going one step forward and two steps back. Interesting how he is obsessed w/aging. Time doesn't stand still for any of us and he better come out of that room and start enjoying life before it's too late. He reminds me of a hermit at times.

Enjoy your day and continue enjoying the things you love to do.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2727730 01/29/17 09:54 AM
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Congratulations on the job!


Me: 44
H: 44
Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10
Together/Married: 22 years
H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16
H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
Rose888 #2727734 01/29/17 10:24 AM
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Congratulations on the new job, HaWho! You'll rock it. New opportunities tend to bring in new energy and excitement. I hope you are able to enjoy it and let it invigorate you.

Sorry about your h. I agree with job... It's going to be a rude awakening when he realizes that time hasnt stood still the last few years. I guess on the plus side, He's clearly moving through some motions. The way you describe the situation... I can see there are moments of lucidity. He tends to be straddling the line between living in the present and the past. Maybe one day, he'll finally walk through the door and leave his childhood issues on the other side.

Wishing you a lovely week!


Me- 30's H- 40's
T-10 M-5
I moved out b/c he wanted space- June 15
D filed by H: September 16
Pax_luv #2727850 01/30/17 12:38 PM
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Congrats on the new job!

Hope your first day is going well.

FightOn #2727917 01/31/17 04:06 AM
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I for one would like to know more about this job!!!! Congratulations! Were you looking or did it just come about organically? I know you're nervous but what makes you excited about it? Let us know how the first day goes xoxoxoxoxo


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
bttrfly #2727946 01/31/17 07:53 AM
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Congrats on the job! Yes, please tell us more about it. How exciting to have a new path to explore!


M-51 H-54
2D-27 and 25
M-26 yrs
Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15
He moved out 10-3-15
D filed 1-27-16
D final 10-27-16

Kindness, kindness, kindness.
bttrfly #2728188 02/01/17 10:17 PM
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Job, Rose, Pax, Fighton, Bttrfly and Ciluzen - thanks for the kind congratulatory posts! It was so nice to receive those.

Bttrfly and Ciluzen - I actively had been hunting for a new job. I actually loved my last job. Until I was assigned to a new manager who was like a character out of Mad Men circa the 1955 episodes.

It was unreal. We were a small start-up and he wanted me to send his emails for him! (At the time, I was the only woman working in the company except for 2 other women in upper management to whom he reported.) He thought that since I lacked a penis, I should fix his coffee and call his wife to tell her when he'd be home. (And NO, none of this was in my job description. And he's not Amish, either, in case you're trying to give him the benefit of the doubt as to why his fingers can't touch a computer.)

Anyway, I had plenty of my own emails to send! When I told my old boss all this, I told her I was not "Joan" from Mad Men and she died laughing and said she'd talk to him. I think he was trying to pull a fast one.

Like that wasn't enough, he was passive aggressive to boot. And he was stretching various rules that made me very uncomfortable.

The new job is really nice! The work is better and the people are wonderful. I am back to having a wonderful boss; phfew!! They operate with a fundamental courtesy that was lacking in my last environment. 3 days in and no one has asked me to fluff his seat cushion for him so that's a good sign. Once again I look forward to work and that is a huge relief. You cannot work for a person you do not respect. It's not possible.

The bad news is anger has re-surfaced in h and I am on day 3 of receiving total silent treatment. He wouldn't even be in the same room with me until today when he was in the room but only talked to the kids.

I have been doing a lot of reading on silent treatment. I knew it was a severe PA behavior and a method of control where you tell someone that you determine their "worthiness" or lackthereof by ignoring him/her.

I brought it on myself as I lost my patience. I said something unkind. It was true and yet, not something I should have said as there are many things that are true and yet should be left unsaid.

S11 hurt his ankle at a game and was in a lot of pain. Of course this all happened the night before my new job. I asked h if he would take s11 for an X-Ray in the AM if it was worse. He told me s11 should go to school as h always went to school no matter what. (Yessss, we should do things just as his mother did as that turned out soooo well.) I told him s was in pain and teachers are not nurses. H got so mad and told me I should quit MY job and stay home and take care of the kids all day?!? I assume this is some sort of crazy conversation he's having with his neglectful mom.

It was just so unattractive. I can take a lot but it's just a huge turn off to see a man who does not want to care for his kids. And I was confused about where were. Is this 2017 for you or 1976?

So I said a very unkind thing. I told him he was a fraction of the man I married. Awful, I know. Bad DBing. I was just so angry and frustrated. So tired of the weirdness.

The moment I left his room I heard my cell phone alert me to a new text message. I didn't have to think long and hard about who sent it. And yep, it was from h. He swore at me (!), told me not to come to his room again and to keep my crazy opinions to myself. (He never swears and now once last month and once this month.)

And ever since then, he refuses to acknowledge me.

HaWho #2728195 02/02/17 03:31 AM
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I am sorry the men in your life are not treating you as they should. This is their issues and nothing about you. You know this but it is really hard not to be affected by such treatment. Also on behalf of men I wanted to state not all men treat women badly.

Don't blame yourself and dwell on what you said. Seemed like the truth to me. Maybe he overreacted because he knows it's true too.

I do hear you judging him though in several instances. You are surely correct in your assessments but being judgemental is closely related to resentment and for your own sake it is better to avoid. I say this with all due respect as I want you to be able to speak freely here. This is a safe place to let that out. But in RL less is more.

How is your son?

All the best with the new job.


R 25 years
M 14 years
S11 & S13
Working on it alone since Oct 2014
M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years)
Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr.
Next R chat Aug'17
Still together
roist #2728224 02/02/17 07:07 AM
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I'm sorry that your h still isn't all there. I hope your son is doing better, but it's going to take a while before that injury feels much better.

I thought you had a conversation or should I say, speaking to the tree, about texting when you are in the next room. I would so not open those text messages and make him come to you if he's got something to say. This is so annoying to you.

As for what you said to him...sometimes we have to say what is on our minds. A truth dart here and there won't hurt them one bit and he's a grown man, he'll eventually get over it.

BTW, I'm glad to read you like your new job. It makes the day go quickly and you can "escape" from the madness at home for just a bit and actually enjoy the work.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2728262 02/02/17 11:17 AM
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I am happy for you that your new job is more to your liking. It's so nice when at least a part of our lives is working out better. Just one less thing to have to sort out.

I certainly can't blame you for the remark. His reaction to your S's need for medical attention was unreasonable.

The ensuing PA behavior is so difficult to handle. I feel like it is a no-win situation. If you don't say something, your feelings of frustration fester and build. If you confront the childish behavior, the MLC'er will find a way to spin it and use it against you.

How is your son's ankle? Does he need crutches?

Hope the ice man defrosts.

FightOn #2728475 02/03/17 06:03 PM
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Can't help but think his comment about you staying home has to do with you getting this new job. Is he just jealous that you're getting a change of job when he's stuck in his? Or is he perhaps jealous because you're getting a raise or more prestige and he feels threatened?

kml #2728483 02/03/17 09:16 PM
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Hi Ha, Sorry he rained on your parade a bit there ... happy the new gig is good and the environment more healthy.

How is your son?
xoxoxo


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
bttrfly #2728506 02/04/17 06:45 AM
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I'm right there w/bttrfly in saying that I'm sorry he rained on your parade. I don't think what he said was about feeling threatened. I think he's so miserable, he didn't want to see you happy about your new job. They are some jealous and resentful people, especially when others are happy and enjoying life...they can make a sunny day look stormy in a heartbeat if you allow them to do so...don't give him that satisfaction.

What matters is that you are happy and the new place is far better to work in.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2728508 02/04/17 06:55 AM
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Congratulations HaWho and glad to hear you are enjoying your new role. I would have struggled with the behaviour from your former colleague too....ugh...

As for your H - yes it may well sting a little that you have moved to a new job and you like it. I can remember XH struggling a little when I had a success at work and he was finding things tough..

If your H was in a better place, he would be able to share better in the positives - but he is where he is for now.....I always say - aim for grace...xx

Have a lovely weekend :)x


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Sotto #2728524 02/04/17 09:36 AM
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Thanks Roist, Job, Fighton, KML, Bttrfly and Sotto.

Most importantly, my son's ankle is fine. A small bone was bruised and that has healed up. Phfew.

Roist - oh, I know there are great men out there! I am raising two of them. And my favorite boss of all time was a guy so I know you can't generalize. (My last company was so small, that we didn't have an HR department. In a "real" company they would have terminated him or they'd have a lawsuit from a female employee.)

You know KML Bttrfly and Job, maybe you are right. Looking back on it, he just seemed to be making my first day hard. I do think he wanted to ruin it for me. And even before the fight, he only asked 2 questions about the job. He seemed happy at first but maybe not?

He is on day 6 of ignoring me completely.

I forgot to mention one other thing. As those who are following know, h is struggling with massive superficiality. Recently, (before he stopped speaking to me) he broke out in some sort of rash on his face. He said it may have been a reaction to some meds he was taking. But he offers little and I don't ask.

He had texted me while at the doctor's and told me he was dealing with the rash. It really reminded me of a teen who thinks the whole world is staring at her zit. The rash looked like a razor burn to me. It wasn't a big deal, really. But he would come home, shield himself and go right to his room!!!

So I said it wasn't so bad and besides it's what's on the inside that matters. Well, he retorted that his ego was bruised by how he looks. I probably should have validated. But he needs a little push here. I joked to him that we will all go through our looks fading.

Well, he retorted that he was hideous and this wasn't the time to get philosophical. He sure does have a vise-grip on youth.

And last night he was discussing numbers he liked with the boys. He told the kids he liked 24. I couldn't see the significance of it. Then he said 24 is a great age because you still have optimism.

Groooooann and shoulder slump.

Then the kids asked, what about 90. H said he did not know. I chimed in and said many people enjoy 90. My grandmother did. And I told them so. She survived two world wars in Eastern Europe and then moved to the US in her mid-60's! She raised a bazillion grandchildren all while making every meal from scratch. She was a tank. And a happy one at that.

If she were alive and I told her about h, she'd walk over and knock some sense into him with her rolling pin.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
HaWho #2728555 02/05/17 07:51 AM
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Wow, HaWho. That would be some major MLCer behavior, right there. Is he still ignoring you?

He really must be waging quite the battle in his head. I'm going to guess that his views on older adults are that they are hideous, worthless, incapable, weak, and feable. A bother. Are those his views? Or has he spoken of them as wise, experienced, emotionally strong and vital? An asset to the community and familial balance.

Its tough to be our MLCers. They seem to really fear aging. And change. That's why (presumably) they are "stuck". I mean, really, if everything is so bad with you, why hasn't he left? Well, fear for one. And you, you mother figure you, take care of him and are steadily there and consistant in your ability to put up with his b.s. (not take it, but put up with it by not flipping out and telling him to leave or leaving yourself). As much as he complains or treats you with P/A behavior, he considers you reliable. I'm sure seeing you go on to get a new job disturbed him...you took on change with excitement. He sees change as fearsome. If you can do that, in his eyes, maybe you will change you're way of treating him?

And then, as he probably is feeling that by getting "old" he is becoming one of those worthless, unattractive, feable "old people", you told him he as a fraction of the man you married. Boom! He was right all along! He's losing his manhood. Such a fragile ego, tied up in that "manliness" that seems to fade as the aches, pains, and weakness starts to set in. No wonder so many start hitting the gym double time in an attempt to fend off the aging. As my MLCer X has consistently said, "getting old [censored]". I wonder...is there a way to validate the few times he speaks positively about himself or of aging? Discuss the value of older adults, a way of viewing the positives in living a long and productive life? Maybe even speak positively about others who look beautiful at any age? Look at Helen Mirren (sp).

Aging and self worth. Feeling that life has passed you by, or is in the process of it. Feeling stuck, but afraid to change, or (in the case of the ones who just up and leave...Surprise!) feeling they have to change or die. Its all desperation. Although they have to fight their own battles, our validating and steadyness of caring seems to be the only real path we can take. As long as he's still there, as much as it drives you crazy, you still have a better chance of him working through this than some of us. But man, you are one amazing lady to be able to carry yourself through, and with a great sense of humor to boot.


M-51 H-54
2D-27 and 25
M-26 yrs
Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15
He moved out 10-3-15
D filed 1-27-16
D final 10-27-16

Kindness, kindness, kindness.
ciluzen #2728562 02/05/17 09:24 AM
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Ciluzen - great post, thanks.

No, in hindsight I am realizing my h never saw the positives in aging. He only saw negatives: he felt sorry for older people, for their loss of youth and loss of vitality, even when he met older people who were secure and happy in their age.

Now, when it comes to my kids, I feel like I am waging a huge marketing campaign. H so frequently is dismissive of what older people, and even aging itself, can offer. Whenever he gripes that all is lost after age 25, (forehead slap), I counter with something very positive. I try to show them that aging can be empowering. (Don't worry I don't try to lift cars or anything just to prove that point. I do, however, try to show it in more graceful ways.)

Not only is h still ignoring me, he went all way back to spewing and running (again). Yesterday s had 2 games with a gap between. H was out the door early: run, run, run! He sent me a text and all it said was "separate cars." Then he laid out that he'd drive son there and I would drive him home after the second game. (I knew that meant he was going to go back to that running around at night routine. And sure enough he stayed out last night.) Surprisingly, his avoidance patterns do in fact follow a chartable course. Ohmand he's back to not eating what I cook. He does however eat it later when no one is around. Hilarious!!!

I texted back: "mmm, okay, we can go back to all that, or we could discuss this face to face." (Remember back in the spring he got mad that I complained when he was racing cars on the highway so he told me to drive, myself, 20 miles to and from the exact location. We often pulled in at the exact same time and I would park right next to him. So stupid.)

Well, did he spew. He texted me if it weren't for these kids he'd take everything and leave me in a heap. He said how dare I call him a fraction of himself. And then he told me I am dead to him. He said there is no friendship or goodwill between us anymore. He rounded out the message by saying that I should thank these kids every day, multiple times a day.

Just awful. And of course so brave via text. I wish I could block his texts and accept calls only. He is so stuck on hiding behind his phone. I don't know how to get him to come to me face to face.

I texted back and said that I did not say he was a fraction of himself because he is aging. But, that something is wrong with him. I told him he's so angry and he even wanted son to go to school in pain. And that he wanted to do things like his mother had done. And I asked why we would ever do as she had done? I told him he is not himself and I was worried about him. (This is the last time I will plant such a seed. I know it won't change a thing but maybe he'll remember it next year.)

Here's something super weird. I came home a few minutes after sending the text and h was in the kitchen. Me: hello. Him: silence. (That's not the weird part, this next bit is. Well, actually in "normal" circumstances it's weird but par for the course over here.)

He went to his room to check his phone. I heard him do it. Then he came in and s13 said he was doing x thing (very normal thing) and h said (with no sarcasm, but like he meant it) "I am worried about you." The exact words I just texted to him!


I see him struggling desperately for control: silent treatment, drive separately, I would leave you in a heap if not for these kids and him telling s he's worried about HIM.

I had myself a good cry yesterday. Just so sad. It hurts to be ignored for a whole week. Plus that text he sent was a painful one; the idea that my existence hinges on the kids.

I do think a lot of this coincides with the new job.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
HaWho #2728563 02/05/17 09:37 AM
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And wow, just received an apology, via text of course.

He says my horrible comment about him being a fraction of himself made him angry. He says he shouldn't have written so harshly to me though and that exclusive of the kids' feelings he still has goodwill towards me. He wants me to have a happy life. Then (here comes the control) he says this is the extent he is going to communicate on this. Nothing further.

It's like Mission Impossible: this is the message and it will self destruct in 5 seconds.

I guess I just validate and praise him for communicating even if it is via text.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
HaWho #2728566 02/05/17 09:56 AM
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HW,

I have been keeping an eye on your sitch and following along from afar.

Yes, your H is in one heap of a mess! The problem is, as I see it, is that your allowing H to get under your skin and you react. I know, I know living with him and his ongoing childish antics is no picnic at all. My heart melts for you as you confront them every single day. It has to be mentally and emotionally exhausted.

I would suggest that you make the following changes:

-No more responding to or initiating any texts when you BOTH are in the house. It will force H to stop his silly PA behaviors from his dorm room
-Each time he whines about getting old, look at him and say I am sorry to hear that you're still struggling with this and hope you will find some peace with this some day soon. I love it and embrace it wholeheartedly. The way I see it, I means I'm collecting wonderful moments and memories that make me who I am today. And I cannot wait for some more exciting revealations. It is my hope that you'll be able to work through whatever it is that's blocking you from enjoying life to the fullest."
-Step in your own true power and speak up for yourself if H speaks to you in a disrespectful way. "H, I feel you are speaking to me in disrespectful fashion and I won't tolerate it from you. This stops right now. I am willing to listen to you when you are calm and show me respect. Thanks for listening"
-I think it's time for you to really send hard truth darts when H whines about parenting or complains about sons. Yeah, H most probably will send you angry texts from his dorm room. Do NOT respond to them at all. Silence is golden

Stop texting or responding to texts while you both are in the house. If you need to say something to H, you'll have to schelp down to his frat dorm room. You'll train him to talk with you when you ignore his texts. He will learn that if he wants or needs something, he'll have to *gasp* talk with you in person.

Hugs to you sweetie! ((((HaWho)))

HaWho #2728581 02/05/17 01:05 PM
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HaWho,

Job suggested I read your thread and I have and just want to express my gratitude for all that you have endured and shared. I am inspired by your story and hope that I can be as strong as you have been.

1. I never realied how my W's rebellion against me is driven by unresolved issues with her father.

2. I too was asked for cake eating at bomb drop six months ago and my W insists that she will eventually have her new man and me and the family and we will all be friends.

3. We are still under the same roof but looks like this phase may be ending soon for better or worse.

4. My W also cycles through periods of being normal and icy cold with unpredictable changes.

5. We also have children at home and do family activities which I think changes the dynamic va those without.


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Wonka #2728598 02/05/17 04:05 PM
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HaWho,

I'm glad Wonka stopped by. She even agrees w/me about the texting while under the same roof. You have to be the one to cease responding to his texts/emails while under the same roof. No more waffling w/this. Just ignore them. If he's got something important to tell you, he'll have no choice but to come upstairs and tell you in person. You are enabling him in his PA behaviors.

I like all of the things that Wonka addressed. They are solid and civil. It's time for your Peter Pan to grow up some and stop remaining stuck in his dorm room.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
HaWho #2728606 02/05/17 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted By: HaWho
I had myself a good cry yesterday. Just so sad. It hurts to be ignored for a whole week. Plus that text he sent was a painful one; the idea that my existence hinges on the kids.


Hi HaWho,

Catching up on your thread tonight. I just wanted to stop by and let you know you're not the only one who has heard that and I know how it feels. Try not to give it too much thought. It must be out of the MLC playbook because I heard almost the exact same thing. Maybe our spouses are trading notes:)

I too told W something similar last year. I told her she was a splinter of the woman I knew then pointed out her friend's Hs who did what she was doing and how she thought they were scum but was somehow she was above everyone else because it was okay for her to do it and she monstered on me big time. No looking inward at themselves, lol.

Congratulations on the new job!

Kyh #2728620 02/05/17 09:38 PM
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Wonka, Gordie, Job and Kyh - thanks. And Gordie, trust me, I am not always strong.

Ok. So, Wonka, I read your post several times. Thank you for all the advice. It's so solid. I like the verbiage you offer when h starts to complain about aging. I am going to lift that!! I will print the whole post and re-read.

I know I need to fix the texting situation. Job, I know you have told me this several times, too. I see I am enabling the PA behaviors. I recognize that when he spews I need to ignore it.

Where I am at a loss is in those gray areas. Like when he texts (from outside the home--probably from the driveway!) that we are taking separate cars to the same place (because he is mad but too PA to say so). Do I just go along with the plan without texting anything back or do I go try to address it in person? If I address it, I am chasing him down.

I don't text him. I DO go and talk to him. But, anytime he is unconfortable he hides behind his phone. He waits until he is out of the home. I think he's caught in that I was coming down to answer/address him.

I am going to start asking for advice when the texting starts because clearly I am not breaking this pattern.

Thanks guys. I am sure it is frustrating to see me making the same mistake over and over again.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
HaWho #2728652 02/06/17 05:58 AM
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If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't respond to any of his texts if he's in the home or in the driveway/yard. Now, if he's out in a store or somewhere, then that's okay If you are going somewhere, I would get myself ready to go, be sure you have your keys in your pocket, and walk outside and get in the car. By doing this, he will have to say something to you about taking two cars. If he does, then say something like "h, we can take two cars, but w/the cost of gas and car maintenance these days, it's better to go in one. Do you still want to take two cars?" BTW, I remember when my xh use to pull the PA behaviors on me and what I did to break some of those behaviors. It's not easy, but you can do it w/repeated practice, patience and time.

Texting is his way of controlling his situation w/you. He can't stand conflict, therefore hiding behind the phone is very easy for him to do and in a way his way of punishing you for whatever he's angry about. The more you allow this behavior, the more he'll do it. He's caught on to what you've been doing in the home of coming to speak to him. The more you practice speaking to him in person, the better it will be. Hopefully, he will eventually realize that you aren't a threat and will not go off on him, i.e., like one of his parents did when he was a child. This is a grown man and needs to act like one and the only way he's going to become unstuck is for you to try something different and stick w/it. Once you've decided no more responding to his texts on the property, do not waffle and start back up again. You have to be the one to break this cycle. He has to come out of that dorm room and start interacting w/his family again. He's been "stuck" for quite some time.

HaWho, sometimes we can see things better about a situation because we are looking in from the outside. I have faith in you that you can do this.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2728717 02/06/17 10:03 AM
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The way he "spoke" to you was awful. It's actually pretty disgusting. Whether or not he is reenacting something from childhood, there is no reasonable excuse.I am so sorry you had to endure that.

I can only echo what others have said. Do not play the text game. Keyboard brave he is, otherwise a chicken sh!t. If he texting from outside of the home and it pertains to what you need at the grocery store or what time ot pick up the kids, yes, answer. If he wants to text spew from another location, you can kindly text back that you can have that conversation when he gets home. And if he is brave enough to say to your face what he does on text (which I doubt) you can tell him you will not be disrespected and walk away.

Your first instinct was to validate his half-arsed text apology. Maybe I am stubborn, or took too many years of verbal abuse from my ex, I don't know, but I would have said "I did not appreciate the way you texted me and I will not tolerate it anymore"

It is easier for us to see like Job said. I also have faith you can break this cycle too.

Ginger1 #2728729 02/06/17 11:05 AM
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Please don't be so hard on yourself HaWho! Changing the relationship dynamic is so challenging; especially when only one person is doing the work. You'll get this.

I totally understand the difficulty with the silent treatment. It hurts so much to be ignored. For heaven's sake, you live under the same roof! For them to just turn their backs on us as if we were invisible is like a kick to the stomach. But this is THEM. Not us. Normal, civilized human beings don't treat each other this way. I get treated better by the strangers in the elevators I encounter at work everyday. Lol!

Hang in there. You got this.

FightOn #2728909 02/07/17 10:49 AM
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HaWho,

I'm really sorry for everything you're going through! I'm dealing with a MLC H who lives at home.

Mine is also overwhelmed about aging. He adds the line "I'm old" to refer to different things and situations. He's going to the gym more than he used to. He's too concerned about getting ill, even getting a cold. Right after BD, last April, he became obsessed with the film Benjamin Button. He said everybody should be born old and then grow younger. He's feels everything is so unfair!

As to our relationship, he sleep together but he avoids physical contact when we bump into each other in the house. As somebody told you, a stranger would be nicer to me!

You sound so strong ! You'll get through this!

marye #2729027 02/07/17 10:58 PM
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Thanks Job for some exact advice on countering PA behaviors. It's reassuring to hear you say these behaviors can be retrained if I am consistent in my changes. Right now his habits seem so set that it feels like I am trying to train a dog to act like a cat.

Ginger - thank you, too. Both you and Wonka have said not to accept the disrespectful language and I know you guys are right. But, another key thing I need to do is discontinue having text-sations. I keep getting lured in to these. H knows if he texts me while home I go address him. So, he now waits until he is out for a few hours.

It started again today. H texted me late afternoon saying s11 should go to x middle school. Umm, even if we are someday divorced we need to get to a point where this is not discussed via text. So I read it but did not answer. Then I addressed him at home and we had a mature conversation.

Fighton - yes! Changing the dynamic takes tremendous consistency. No room for backsliding.

Marye- the fear of aging in MLC is brutal. But, I went through my own depression and I did the whole sleep on the edge of the bed/cringe when we bumped thing. I remember finding my h very unattractive. It's part of the depression and had nothing to do with him. At one point h asked me why I never made eye contact with him! I remember thinking that he was such a controlling person. But I wasn't making eye contact anymore...

As for me, tonight at dinner I realized that h is back to doing that thing where he talks only to the kids and categorically so. He'll say "so boys, listen to this" or "boys, did you know..." At one point I chimed into the conversation and h did not acknowledge my comment at all. I decided I will no longer stay at the table after I have eaten. If I were at any other social setting and being treated that way, I would politely remove myself from the situation. I have plenty of other things to do than to sit there and be openly ignored.

I am not mad. It's just a waste of my time to put up with that.

Thanks everyone for all your help. I truly appreciate your input. I will work on all this.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
HaWho #2729037 02/08/17 02:05 AM
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Hawho, that stinks. At times I have endured that to a lesser degree. My W would let me know stuff by saying it to the kids in front of me. Or barely acknowledging my presence.

I understand you wanting to leave the table but I am not sure it is your best move. My W was less aggressive in this so maybe my advice is not appropriate.

I used several approaches:
# I ignored the information and if it came up again I stated she didn't tell me, though she may have mentioned something about it it sons.
# I would pose a direct question immediately. She usually answered.In your case maybe you could do that and then state, that you posed him a question...
# I directly told her if she had something to tell me I would only react to it if told directly . Of course i did this without the kids being there.

Things are better now. Not perfect but definitely better, so it can improve.

I know your issue is being ignored. It is tougher but people here have often said that people treat us the way we let them. We cannot force them to do something but we can decide what we will tolerate. I hate saying what I would do in your place because it is complacent,but maybe I would take h aside and tell him if he continues to treat you like that he won't eat with ye at mealtimes. Maybe I am being harsh as we are advised to ignore bad behavior and reward/encourage good behavior.

Best wishes


R 25 years
M 14 years
S11 & S13
Working on it alone since Oct 2014
M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years)
Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr.
Next R chat Aug'17
Still together
roist #2729735 02/12/17 10:34 AM
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Thanks Roist. Good advice; solid as always.

I have begun addressing the PA behaviors. But, as I tackle this pile over here new ones crop up over there. Here's a new one. H joins us at the table for dinner but does not eat the meal with us. He covers it and puts it in the fridge. Then, the next day, as I am making dinner, he comes in, grabs the meal from the night before, takes it to the dorm room and eats it there.

This weekend he tried to pull the "separate cars to 20 miles away" routine. I had to drop s13 off somewhere and was coming back home to eat dinner and then go to s11's game. As I was leaving h said we could drive separately. His plan was to leave before I returned but if he just waited 5 minutes we could all go together. Sigh.

I went into the dorm room and used Job's line: "with gas prices and wear and tear on the car, are you sure you want to drive separately?" But, I admit there was annoyance in my tone. How long must I endure this stupidity? (For you all it's a rhetorical question. For God though, it is a serious question. And I do feel my toe tapping...)

H gaslit me: "I thought that would be easier for you!" (Yeah sure.) "I am just here trying to eat my dinner" (the one he wrapped up from last night even though we are going to eat dinner in 20 minutes when I return!) Innocently: "You do whatever you want." Yeah, sure.

Then in the car on the way to the game it was back to "s11 did I ever tell you ..." "Hey s11 yesterday I ..." Every sentence specified for s11. I just acted as if but I had this imaginary scenario in my head where I sent God an email pinging him with a subject line like: "bumping this up to the top of your to-do list." And in the body of the email I would ask him if he'd forgotten about this nut job on my left.

One morning this week I clarified something financial with him. I did it face-to-face. Then I left for work. Afterwards of course, he sent me a text (seconds later) with a light bit of spew. I ignored it completely.

I am learning lots of new things at work. The people are so nice. There is a fundamental respect there that I SO appreciate not just because of my last workplace but also because my h is crazy.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
HaWho #2729737 02/12/17 12:44 PM
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Okay, this man is not happy and he's doing everything he can to get you to lose your cool. I swear, I would be tempted to take the plate of food that he puts in the fridge and toss it out so that he would have to either eat what was fixed on that particular day or he would go hungry. He is beyond rude and, if I were in your shoes, I would call him out on his behavior. Wouldn't you call your sons out when they are rude? Well then, call your Peter Pan out when he's rude. He needs to learn some manner and respect for all family members.

BTW, I'm sorry he's being such a pita.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2729748 02/12/17 03:11 PM
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I do feel like he wants me to be as miserable as he is. He wants me to explode. I know he does.


Today on the way to s11's game it was back to: "s11 did you know...," "s11 did I ever tell you...," "s11 what did you think of x?" All the while with me sitting there in the car with them.

Job- I was thinking about how I would handle this meal stunt if s13 pulled this. I am contemplating a few options about the meals. I like your idea.

I also am thinking about cutting off his gravy train. I think, before I start to make dinner I will go into his room and ask him if he plans to eat this evening. If the answer is not a categorical yes, I will not make him dinner and I'll politely tell him so. If he is crafty he will start to say "no, not right, but I'll eat it later," then I'll still not make dinner. I am leaning this way to make it clear dinner is now or not at all.

I will be direct. If he starts to say yes, he's eating, but doesn't, I'll stop cooking him meals altogether. I will tell him "you don't seem to want to eat with us anymore so I won't be cooking you meals anymore."

Clearly he is gunning for a fight because he comes into the kitchen for his wrapped meal at the exact time I am cooking that night's meal.

In my fantasy life I am the WAW.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
HaWho #2729770 02/12/17 10:32 PM
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Hey H, I really don't know what to say, just want you to have HUGE hug and for you to know you are in my thoughts.

I really really don't know how you are staying as cool and tolerant as you are, you are an incredible woman HaWho, your tolerance and patience is beyond anyone I know.

I know in the past you have talked about your h dealing with your own depression and its one reason you are pushing through and putting up with his behaviour, but sheez, seriously H, you deserve to be treated with respect and love and your h has shown no signs of being capable of either for a while now .I am so so sorry and sad that you and you boys are having to live like this, but admire you for persevering with a extremely difficult and challenging situation. You are a walking advert for holding to your wedding vows !!

I have no thoughts on your latest issue, I am far less tolerant, I would have told him to either eat with the family or cook his own food, choose one option, end of subject. I do feel job is right in saying that he is pushing for a fight, he is looking for the excuse and you are not giving it to him, so he is pushing harder. Your boys are going to be late teens soon enough and believe me they will push the boundaries (which you are going to be such an expert at by then lol) even the most sweetest child has their moments, so do you want you boys growing up seeing this behaviour and how your h treats you and starts to re enact that ......?

Making your h understand what is and isn't acceptable is also helping your boys understand it too, they are watching and taking this all in, so if you don't want to get a bit tougher for your sake, then do it for your boys sake.

HaWho, I genuinely want to see you, your h and your family come through this, you have travelled such a long way down the MLC path together, but I also want to see you be ok, to live and love life and be happy, so please look after YOU in all this, remember you are valid and have the right to live in an environment that is respectful.

I am sending you so much love and wish I could give you a big hug and have a few glasses ...bottles ...of something pink and share tales of MLC crazy antics with you. xoxp

LouR #2729776 02/13/17 01:53 AM
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I had been mulling over your meal issue and it is a tricky one. That being said you do need to stand up to it. This is a boundary about you and about being an example to your sons. I agree with LouR that if you are walked over in front of your sons,they could follow that example.

But even from a simple manners point of view it is a bad example (speaking about H not you!!!) I personally would say to him that his behavior is not an acceptable example for your sons. Maybe he would push back less from that standpoint as opposed to you not liking how he is treating you.

I think that in his current state of mind he would prefer to make this about you and him . He gave you the extreme silent treatment for a week because he did not like what you said to him. He was vexed about not getting his way about the two cars. Right now no matter what you do or say he takes it personally and is angrier with you. To him YOU are the problem.

Don't let fear of his reaction stop you standing up to him, but be mindful that some approaches and wording could be easier turned against you. No point it stirring a hornets nest if you can just fumigate it.

I don't like the idea of dumping his dinners. It is provoking him and wasting good food. I do like your suggested approach. I am impressed that you found such a humane response. Approaching H beforehand is perfect. Much better than just not preparing his meal, which no one would blame you for by the way. I think that throughout this situation we should strive to behave the best we can regardless of what they deserve.

Can I ask you why you are not a WAW? I may have missed this point in SN earlier thread. If so sorry. I don't want you to walk sway, but I am curious as to your mindset. Recently you doubted if you would want him back, yet you stick out your situation. Many would have booted H out long ago. Yet you have patiently endured his antics. I admire your stance and your patience.II am just curious about your inner thinking about where YOU are at.

Best wishes


R 25 years
M 14 years
S11 & S13
Working on it alone since Oct 2014
M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years)
Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr.
Next R chat Aug'17
Still together
roist #2729941 02/13/17 09:53 PM
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Maybe his craziness about the meals has to do with his ZoCD? Maybe he's waiting 24 hours to makes sure none of you die from accidental poisoning until he digs in.

kml #2730057 02/14/17 12:41 PM
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Hi HaWho,

Catching up on your fraternity MLCer. You're hanging in there.

- Separate cars... I recalled when I was a teenager and I had to travel with my mother on public transportation, I would never sit next to her. I was just too cool to be traveling right next to my mom. I had to sit in an adjacent seat somewhere. I wonder if he's trying to claim his independence and/or rebelling against his Mom this way. He resorts to texting to avoid confrontation or dialogue. If he's in a car with you, he can't escape from what you may have to say to him. Even if your boys are there, he still may fear you will resort to his passive aggressive tactic, which is that talking-through-the-kids crap (my W does the same thing). You tried to address this and he balked, no surprise. He wants to drive alone and play his depressing songs.

- Asking him in advance about eating dinner with the family... yes, I think you should do it. Sneaking in and out while you and your sons are acting normally is ridiculous. Just rehearse what you're going to say and be prepared to use a calm tone of voice. Standing in the doorway while asking him if he's going to bother sitting at the dinner table can come off as incredibly matriarchal.

- Talking to your sons while ignoring you... if H says something to one of the boys, and you hear your son say something worth replying to, then speak up. You'll be replying to your children, not your immature H. You can ignore his mind games while staying engaged with your children. They're noticing all his weird behavior, too.

- The ignoring... I feel ya, I really feel ya. It's hard to stomach when they're in the same damn house as us. My W made a point not to acknowledge my last birthday, even though 3 of her friends visited that evening and all wished me Happy Birthday. Then again, she unfriended me on Facebook a week before, so it wasn't like I was surprised. I wonder when a live-in MLCer goes NC, is it out of guilt or anger? Whenever I re-cap my own sitch for a friend, I usually just say my W is still "aggressively ignoring me". I think if they could call us on our cell and say nothing so they can give us the silent treatment over the phone, they'd do it.

You are very perceptive about him looking for a battle by fetching his dinner while you're in the kitchen preparing the current dinner. Good catch! You can put these behaviors into perspective - however insane.

They want us to fight, they want us to lose our cool. It's tough. As hard as things are, you are doing great for no other reason than your primary impulse is NOT to hide in that dorm room all the time.


M: 49, W: 45
T: 22 M: 15
S14, S11, S9
BD: Jan '16
W files: Oct '16
D final: June '18
Brubeck #2730329 02/15/17 10:55 PM
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Hi Lou! Nice to hear from you. I hear your concern about taking care of me and thank you for that piece of advice.

Roist - where is my head at nowadays? Great question. I think most of the time it's focused on me, my kids, our present lives and our futures. I don't allow myself too much time to think about my h. It's too depressing to do so. I feel sorry for him.

I do wonder if I am doing the right thing here. Maybe it would be healthier not to live with him. I know divorce is destructive. I can't say what is going on here is great, obviously. I am picking between two bad options. I thought about how I would justify my decision to my kids when they are older. My answer would be that it would break my heart to have them spend 50% of their time with a person who closes himself in a dorm room. This in turn means they get no break from the weirdness.

2 years 3 months post BD, I am finally sleeping through the nights. I was on high alert for so very long: is he going to empty the bank account and move to Fiji with a few women as he said he wanted to do? Is he going to to come home and tell me two of his girlfriends are pregnant with his children? Is he going to disappear one day and notify me via text?

Now, I spend most of my time thinking how do I protect myself financially, emotionally, spiritually?

KML - I think a year ago, yes, he really did believe I was trying to murder him. (Oh, I can't believe this is my life story. I am a normal person not a made for TV movie character.) But now? I think it's some PA control issue. Here's why...

Before I start dinner, I have been going to ask him if he's eating. The first night he was caught off guard and stuttered. He nervously asked what I was making. I answered and he said yes and he ate. The next night, I did the same. He asked what I was making and he said yes and he ate. Tonight I ordered in and he ate.

Brubeck - nice to hear from you. Yes, in general, my h is as embrassed by me as my s13 is. H has way more anger towards me though.

As for your w not acknowledging your birthday? Obviously, if people wished you a happy birthday in front of her, she went out of her way to hurt you. People who hurt others are hurt themselves.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
HaWho #2730338 02/16/17 02:54 AM
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HaWho, my heart goes out to you as I read your most recent post. Hi rock, meet hard place. It's not an enviable position to be in. I'm so sad that you are living with this level of stress. Be very mindful of your health my dear. The boys need you and stress takes it's toll. Sending much love and hugs. xoxoxoxo


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
Brubeck #2730392 02/16/17 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted By: Brubeck
I think if they could call us on our cell and say nothing so they can give us the silent treatment over the phone, they'd do it.


LOL


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Gordie #2730693 02/18/17 04:36 PM
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Well, even though h lives 50 feet from me, lately, I barely see him. Monday - Friday I would estimate I see him 1 hour total--few minutes at dinner is all. I notice when I am in a room he just doesn't enter. I remember doing the same sort of thing in my depression. On the weekends, he is holed up in the MLC bunker. Or he leaves the house. We barely speak. And when we are in the same room h does the no eye contact/no looking at me thing.

He's been sleeping at irregular times. Often I will come home and the kids will shush me and say he is napping.

There are times he texts me. Sometimes he sends a cute picture of the dog. Sometimes, very very rarely, he just writes me something quick but funny. But sometimes he works a way in to tell me the marriage has been bad for 20 years. (We've been married 16.) He still builds the "this marriage was always bad" case. He's the Marcia Clark of the MLC world.

Most of the time he has zero sense of humor. A few days ago he wore his Patriots sweatshirt. By half time sons and h gave up on the Pats! H left to get a haircut, S11 went upstairs to watch a different show and S13 went to his own dorm room. I told them they were fair weather friends. I insisted they would win and they all scoffed at me. Hah!

But my dog watched with me the whole time. I think he knew they were going to win, too!

So back to the kitchen and h's lack of humor. I said to him: "heeeey, wait a second! Are you wearing your Pats sweatshirt out today so you can brag?" Old h would have given a witty answer and I would have rubbed him for losing faith in them and yet still "owning" their victory. He started to give me this really boring answer and I tuned out as I think tax codes are more exciting.

Sometimes he is an adult: telling the kids to pitch in by doing x,y,z. But 99% of the time he's hiding in the dorm room. There is rarely music playing. But a few days ago while in the dorm room, he played one of his most depressing songs about how life has no purpose; there's just the time you have here and that's all.

Awesome.

As for me? It has hit me that is so far beyond "he just needs to wake up." The last few weeks, all around me, I see the damage he's done. It is hard for me to see how it is possible for "us" to recover from it.

The attributes that are opposite of who he was are one thing. I can dismiss those as MLC. But those glimpses of problematic things I saw when I first met him, that have now ballooned, are what worry me. His genuine discomfort with aging, for example. There are others, too. The superficiality that has surfaced is another biggie. In the dreaded letter he even told me that: that he was superficial and these things were important to him and he was tired of pretending they weren't.

It's hard to quiet my mind on these issues.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
HaWho #2730717 02/19/17 04:08 AM
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I'm glad you have the dog on your team


R 25 years
M 14 years
S11 & S13
Working on it alone since Oct 2014
M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years)
Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr.
Next R chat Aug'17
Still together
roist #2730720 02/19/17 06:07 AM
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HaWho,

I really don't you how you are able to persist with your situation. It is inspiring. Your patience is amazing. I wish I could offer you advice but I can only offer you moral support.


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
HaWho #2730721 02/19/17 06:11 AM
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We won because I shut off the tv and monitored via computer. Every time I would switch back to the game, something terrible would happen. Finally I just followed along on the Pats website and it worked!

now to a less pleasant topic:
HaWho in the years leading up to BD, I found myself asking myself questions about my husband and marriage that I never dreamed I would ask. I only shared them with my therapist, as I didn't know this place existed, and rarely my brother from another mother. I'd have to say about the last 18 months we were together I was wondering what lessons I was teaching my son about women, and their roles in family. This weighed on my mind heavily and still does, tbh.

So here we are. Son has watched his father and his father's friend say the most horrendous things and he's absorbed them like a sponge. I still kick myself that I didn't kick that friend out of my home for some of his spew.I do recall saying on more than one occasion that I would prefer him to censor his speech around our boy. I would also tell exh repeatedly that he needed to censor some of his speech around our son.

I ask myself if my staying during those years was the best thing. Should I have been the one to leave? Was it better to be together and yes, very loving a lot of the time, while there was this growing subtext? I don't have the answers. Some of the troubles our son has had this year I can trace direcly to exh and his friend. From what I can tell, exh sees the damage now, and is frantically trying to fix it, but you know, in some ways, it's too late. Our boy watched for a good 4-5 years while his father disrespected me and our family consistently, first in small, unobtrusive ways, and then in larger, more obvious ones. I've had to do some "re-training" over the past two years, with a 6'3" 200 pound angry teenager who can get downright nasty on occasion as only his father or another teenager can. It's laughable when exH says, "He shouldn't speak to you that way." No Kidding. Where did he learn it was ok and how am I supposed to "make" him do anything? Luckily, as I said, exh is doing his best to undo some of that damage, and I appreciate it. I just wonder if there's something I could have done differently when son was a pre-teen.

I guess what I'm saying here HaWho is that at some point, I think we all have to take a step back and look at the much bigger picture of what are the life lessons we hope our children are learning from this horrific experience known as MLC. What are we hoping they will look back on or take into their own marriages. I know as Catholics there's that aspect as well. It's a lot to hold. No one can make these decisions except the person in the situation.

I worry about you and the pressures you are under, living with this day in and day out. Do you think it might help to talk to a DB Counselor or IC about this? Just so you can have extra support as you sort thru it all? You've done such an amazing job of holding it all together. Who is holding it for you? I hope I haven't overstepped any boundaries. Sending you prayers and love xoxoxo


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
bttrfly #2730776 02/20/17 12:35 AM
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HaWho -

I wonder if your H's touch-and-go texts are his way of temperature checking. It seems to be his only positive point of contact. Maybe these texts offer hope to you, or maybe it feels kind of empty when weighed against the massive amount of NC he maintains.

Feedback and research on MLC indicates that most of them have no sense of humor with their spouses. No surprise. I've tried a few mild jokes with my W and she seems irritated that I bother.

"The marriage was always bad" - I guess they refine this story for themselves by exaggerating it as time goes on.

Just curious - why did you avoid him during your depression?


M: 49, W: 45
T: 22 M: 15
S14, S11, S9
BD: Jan '16
W files: Oct '16
D final: June '18
Brubeck #2730788 02/20/17 05:55 AM
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Brubeck,

Many people suffering from depression withdraw from others, as well as things that they use to enjoy. They want to be alone to deal w/their periods of sadness and they can't find joy in anything or anyone. It takes a lot of effort to even get up in the morning, let alone interact with others.

job #2730808 02/20/17 07:40 AM
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Hi Bttrfly - thanks so much for the very thoughtful post. Quick answer: I saw both an IC and tried a DB counselor. This is just such a long slog though, and great as my IC was she did not really understand MLC. I could tell she was slowly building a cut and run strategy for me. Heck, it may come to that and I knew it then, but I did not want to start that way. I have found the best way to get the stress out, for me, is to exercise and to post here where people believe this thing is real. And that does help. You guys are my lighthouse, too!


Roist - yes, thank goodness for him! He has been my hiking companion through very stressful times, too. H seems to lean on him as well. The dog must be confused: how comes these two never walk me together?!?

Gordie - trust me, you too have strength you never knew even existed.

Brubeck - Job is right. I did withdraw; a lot. This is awful, but I was convinced I hated my h. I had such anger towards him.

Now, in retrospect, I realize I was projecting that anger onto him. My sister's son was born with a very rare genetic disorder. For years, unbeknownst to me, I was processing that anger as I grieved the life he and she/her husband should have had.

I had no idea I was depressed or that I'd changed so much; I put it all on my h because I couldn't face truly dealing with what happened to my nephew. My anger towards h kept me safe in denial and delayed me from facing the gravity of what happened to my sister's life and the life of this little boy.

I started to wake up when my sister and nephew came to visit. I picked them up at the airport and I could no longer deny that this wasn't going to go away. Prior to this, I had seen my nephew weekly via Skype but somehow I was still able to live in denial until I saw him in person.

Depression is a bizarre, bizarre thing. I did a lot of the weird things my h has done. But I had no replay (thank goodness as that is awfully embarrassing; so thankful I wasn't running around playing cougar and wearing hooker clothes.) And unlike my h's d, mine had nothing to do with aging/death nor childhood issues. I mourned the death of a living child; which is a tough one.

Just a quick update. H went out before dinner on Saturday. He returned just after the boys and I ate dinner. Don't worry Job, I knew not to wait. Of course he has a bazillion allergies so every night I have to tweak his meal.

I was so angry he just didn't post after I made him a separate meal due to allergies. Who does he think he is? A Saudi Prince? I thought about tossing his meal in the garbage. In the end, I poured this sauce on it that he doesn't like; says it hurts his stomach. But the kids love it so they could eat it tomorrow.

He came home as I was cleaning up. I said hi but I was mad. I went upstairs and heard him foraging for food. I knew he couldn't find "his dinner."

A few hours later I went down and the dish with the sauce was empty! I asked s13 who ate it and he said h. Argh.

The next day h was super nice. He was very chatty. He went out for a short bit in the AM. I made the kids breakfast. H came in as we were about to walk the dog. He asked where we were going. I told him and said I assumed he did not want to come as he's only just returned. But he crashed with us. And he was Mr. Chatterbox.

In the walk he asked us to eat out that night. We did. He looked awful; grey skin and all. He brought up more childhood issues; none of them new.

He asked if we all wanted to go away for a few days in the summer. The boys answered and I listened. I didn't really answer. There was so much commotion with the boys talking that I hoped I could slip from committing. That is months off yet and right now, my heart isn't in it.

But he categorically asked if I was coming and I said yes; the boys' eyes on me.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
HaWho #2730859 02/20/17 12:22 PM
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HaWho,

Dang! I think you missed an opportunity to swat that tennis ball back in H's court by sweetly responding, "Hey, why don't you all have an all boys' adventure together? That'll be real fun for you!" This will accomplish several goals in on fell swoop:

-you have some alone time without the constant cacophony of everyday living with three tweets under one roof
-H will *gasp* just have to parent the boys by all his lonesome self!
-you regain some sanity and equilibrium

Gotta think a bit more quickly on your feet sweetie. You got this!

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Wonka, great piece of advice !

I was wondering if all MLC H's lose their sense of humor ... Mine has interesting answers when he's in full replay.

HaWho, any idea why today he felt like talking? Is it connected to the meal event?

Hugs!

marye #2730927 02/21/17 06:24 AM
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I think that having gone through depression helps you understand how it can be hard for H. I think that he is doing the best he can. He texts because he does not know how to verbalise in front of you. Some of it may be cowardice but I think a large part of it is not being able to otherwise.

Your depression and consequent behavior surely contributed to the downfall of your H. You did the best you could have but during that time you were not putting any positivity into your M and even more so were adding negativity. I am not saying this to make you feel bad or to blame yourself.

Now the tables are reversed and H is only adding negativity and you are not being treated well. Use your experience to help you support this phase of your life. Empathize with your H. He feels unhappy and does not know how to fix that. You know that feeling. Now none of this excuses his behaviour but hopefully makes it easier for you to support.

I understand your feelings and am sure that during his "normal"episodes, you cannot appreciate them fully because you are overwhelmed by the rest of his shite. You feel it's nice/better but not nearly enough after all the rest. You would be right to think that H being chatty doesn't erase a multitude of bad behavior. But this should not be considered that way. Keeping score will only result in losers.

Appreciate those "normal" interactions more. View them as a pause in the madness, not as something that makes up for the past or something to build on for the future.

For someone who wants out and doesn't love you, he does seem to make a lot of little efforts for you. After each series of crape behaviour he often reaches out. It doesn't matter why he is doing this at this stage but just be aware that he is. The pattern does appear that he does so after you have let him know some behavior is not acceptable. Initially he does not like that but it seems that afterwards he could possibly realise you are not going to take all and any behavior he puts your way. I imagine this is more a subconscious process than him deciding that. Maybe job or someone else who has been around here longer can comment on this.

I also fully understand that holidays together are less appealing and even fill you with dread. I am curious as for why you said yes when you clearly weren't sure. It is okay to say that you will get back to him about it or to say no. I understand with your sons being present you may have felt obliged to do so for them. It is still not too late to go speak to him alone, but as you mentioned it is a few months away and a lot can happen in the meantime. I also liked sottos comment and would be tempted to tell H to plan the trip for him and sons and you will decide later if you would join them.

One last thought I have about your situation. I am fully against D and know it is not a solution, at leas not a good one. I reread your first thread and your recent postings. You were depressed and wanted out. Now H is depressed and wants out and you don't know if you want in. But you are still there. I wonder if deep down you do want in? I doubt dislike of divorce could enable someone endure so much so long. You do not need to reply but it could be worth digging onto. S simple question is to ask "why do I do that" and each reply, you accept the answer and reask the same question for that reply. Ultimately (in theory) wevdisvover our truest purest motivation by doing so.

Best wishes


R 25 years
M 14 years
S11 & S13
Working on it alone since Oct 2014
M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years)
Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr.
Next R chat Aug'17
Still together
roist #2731135 02/21/17 10:44 PM
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Wonka - thanks for the advice and yep, I did miss it then. But, there is still time to implement this strategy once we come closer to the date. It's a place that does not require flying so it won't be a biggie for me to peddle out. Let's see if he even follows through on the plan.

Marye - I don't have a definitive answer as to why he grew chatty. I suspect it is the pursuer/distancer dance. I give him a wide berth these days (as he is crazy) but the meal night I was MIA all night. Maybe he sensed it? Or maybe, like Roist, said it was a flash of normalcy.

Roist - thank you so much for all your input and feedback. I said yes to the trip because I was caught off guard and I don't always think quick on my feet. Wonka is right. I need to do better here. It is easy enough to, at least, say I'll think it over and get back to him. But I can do even better by telling them (cheerfully) to make their plans and enjoy them.

Yes, in an ideal world I would want in, but not with this kook. While he has shown a lot of little moments of effort it's hard to tell if this is just part of the pursuer/distancer dance or if it is genuine.

And I like your advice of questioning why I respond the way I do. It's a good question. This is something I'll explore.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
HaWho #2732437 03/01/17 12:29 PM
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Hi HW,

Getting caught up here. I don't have any advice, I don't know how you live with this daily. You are an amazing strong person, I am proud of you. It seems you are moving along on that path towards some answers. Just keep moving and living your life.

A family free vacation might be a nice break for you, let us know what you decide. Take care of yourself.

M


Me 48 H 46 S 11
M 2004
BD 8/13
H moved out 2/15
-live in the present, enjoy the beauty around and within you, explore your new future-
mleigh4 #2732622 03/02/17 11:03 PM
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Mleigh - honestly, these days, I don't see him all that often.

Monday - Friday, I see him for a short bit at dinner. Then, poof, he's back to the dorm room. He is consistently more aware of the boys, though. He once again tracks their comings and goings, delineates times they are to return, etc.

There are still bizarre moments. Here's a great one. Last week s13 had a game right after school and I couldn't make it. H was supposed to pick him up. H texted me giving me the address to the game and asked me for directions. He said something was wrong with his phone.

It reminded me of a teen who hates his mom but suddenly realizes she IS useful because he needs help. So I sent him directions from home.

He then said the directions I sent him were from the house but he wasn't coming from home. So of course, I asked where he was coming from. He didn't seem to be able to give me an exact address. And if he weren't with S11, I would for sure think he was lost at some hidden brothel. (But he was with s11 AND I later learned he was even on the same street as where the game was!)

So I texted back and told him I was so confused. I asked him why he thought I would know where exactly he was? And then I asked him how I was supposed to give him directions without knowing his exact address. (I am still confused and this happened last week.)

By this time I was leaving work and just said I would pick s13 up. The whole scene reminded me of those early replay days where he couldn't find places. Unbelievable he went all the way home (30 minutes away) even though he was on the same street as s13!

When I picked up S13 (who was aware that h was somehow on the same street but then left!) he was mad to be kept waiting. And he asked me (only half kidding) how I even married this person. I didn't say anything in response. But, in my mind I imagined that maybe the priest accidentally forgot to stamp my application for marriage and maybe somehow, due to small tiny technicality, I wasn't actually married. Then s13 woke me up: "hello?!? Are you even listening?"

The other day I was driving and as I rounded a corner, there was the place I stayed at on the 1 year anniversary of BD. And guess what? I had such nice memories of it! As I drove along I realized that although I was so sad on BD day itself, now, I remember the general calm of that place and I associate it with BD.

Special thanks to Ellie and Job who told me to go. And to AJM, who doesn't post often anymore, but gave me great advice. I'll pass it along to those coming behind me. On those painful anniversaries? Take the sting out of those days by recreating positive memories.

This year at BD, it may not be all rosy, but sprinkled with the pain, there will be a memory of me reading and resting by the ocean on a foggy day.

There are moments where he course corrects. This morning h asked s13 if he could bring him to school. It was my day to take him. But son wouldn't be ready for 10 minutes and h said he couldn't wait (even though he could, he just didn't want to do so).

So I zipped it even though it would have helped me out as I go a different direction for work. S13 came in and said it wasn't going to work for h to take him and I said that was fine. I think h heard s13 and he changed his mind and said it was no big deal for him to wait and take him. I thanked him and praised.

One last thing. The other night I filled out some school paperwork for the kids for next year. I was outside h's dorm room and told him I left him some paperwork outside on a table in the hall. H (very curious): "paperwork?!? What kind of paperwork?" And as I walked away without answering he came out immediately to see what it was.

The kids were there but I wanted to ask: what % of you was hoping it was divorce papers?

H said aloud: "ohhhhh, it's school paperwork." I really couldn't tell if he was relieved or disappointed.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
HaWho #2732658 03/03/17 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted By: HaWho


The other day I was driving and as I rounded a corner, there was the place I stayed at on the 1 year anniversary of BD. And guess what? I had such nice memories of it! As I drove along I realized that although I was so sad on BD day itself, now, I remember the general calm of that place and I associate it with BD.

Special thanks to Ellie and Job who told me to go. And to AJM, who doesn't post often anymore, but gave me great advice. I'll pass it along to those coming behind me. On those painful anniversaries? Take the sting out of those days by recreating positive memories.


Wow, great idea! Thanks. You are always inspiring. So strange how confused your H gets with directions. I also find your son's commentary on the situation of interest. I wonder how all of this in-house MLC stuff affects the kids.


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Gordie #2732669 03/03/17 10:44 AM
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A GPS would be a nice present idea for your H. Before dismissing the idea, think about it. An undeserved nice gift would be something new/different. If you do decide to, give it to him in a non confrontational way and don't criticise his sence of directions.

When depressed the brain is easily overwhelmed and just cannot cope with simple daily stuff. Being stressed can have the same effect. It cannot be fin to not be able to find his sons sports ground or other places. It is probably overwhelming.

I know it [censored] for you too. It cannot be easy. I admire you being able to support such incidents without adding negativity and criticism into the mix. Fair dues to you.

Best wishes


R 25 years
M 14 years
S11 & S13
Working on it alone since Oct 2014
M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years)
Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr.
Next R chat Aug'17
Still together
roist #2732671 03/03/17 10:55 AM
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Quote:
The other day I was driving and as I rounded a corner, there was the place I stayed at on the 1 year anniversary of BD. And guess what? I had such nice memories of it! As I drove along I realized that although I was so sad on BD day itself, now, I remember the general calm of that place and I associate it with BD.

Special thanks to Ellie and Job who told me to go.


Funny, I still have fond memories too of the hotel where I escaped for a weekend when my ex was in the middle of his crisis. The staff were so sweet to me when I burst into tears at the reception desk and blurted out that my husband was cheating on me. And even though all I did was eat alone in the restaurant and read by the pool, it was such a nice calm time and the start of me rediscovering myself.

kml #2733226 03/08/17 07:03 AM
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Hi Gordie, Roist and KML - nice to hear from you all and thanks for the input. Appreciated.

Roist - h refuses to use GPS systems. Must be some hard wiring from the primitive days of "I am not lost! I don't need directions."

KML - On my hotel away on BD, I inadvertently made myself look like I was having an affair. I was 30 minutes up the coast from where I live. I mentioned my kids to the front desk woman and of course I had a wedding ring on. She asked what the reason was for my visit and I said I was just away from home for work. Then she asked for my license which had my 30 minute away address on it. Doh!

It was awkward. I was tempted to show her my before and after BD picture to ask: who would sleep with me?!? Look how I've aged in 1 year!!!!

Just a quick post.

On the weekend h asked the boys to go do x with him and reverted back to the pretending I wasn't in the room. Okey-dokey. He didn't invite me along.

The next day from the hall, without making eye contact he said I could come along unless I had my own plans. (Looks like he waited TO invite me until I had my own plans). As he said the word "plans" he made what appeared to be a lassoing motion with his wrist. So I asked what that meant. Does he think I am going to wrangle cattle?

He said "I don't know." And kidded "go do whatever it is middle aged women go out and do for fun." (So I guess he was giving me a whoop it up motion?)

I was ready for him and said that thankfully I've come to terms with my age and I'm enjoying it in a peaceful, dignified way. I managed to say it with a smile and a lightness even though I wanted to clobber him with my purse. He is years older than me! And he's trying to make me feel like some random middle aged woman out there?!? Anyway, I didn't go with them. I needed the break. So I told him to enjoy!

There are moments where he helps the kids in surprisingly "old h" ways. I practically hurt myself running over there to validate those moments.

Point is: he is beginning to initiate doing some things with the kids. And on a weekend? Now, THAT is a first in a lonnng while.

As for me? I am pretty busy as I am working more hours.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
HaWho #2733237 03/08/17 08:54 AM
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***And kidded "go do whatever it is middle aged women go out and do for fun."


He is obviously not in his right mind. No man in his right mind would kid about that to any woman...no matter his relationship to them.

It is crazy how they are truly in some far away dimension. My W is no longer at home, so most of the craziness I don't get to see first hand. I cannot imagine what the live-in LBS feels. It must be totally overwhelming at time. You seem to be a very strong person and are handling things great.


Me 49 W46
T25 M22
S22 D18 S13
W had EA Apr-Jul 2016
Dropped Bomb 7/9/16
ILYBINILWYA
HER DIVORCE IS FINAL...8/18/17
Dropping the rope to SURVIVE & THRIVE!!!
HaWho #2733239 03/08/17 08:58 AM
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Growing up I often heard the expression that life begins at 40. I used to think it was "old"people trying to make themselves feel better about being" old". I suppose historically speaking people got married and had kids in their early 20s and when those kids reached adulthood/ maturity the parents tended to be around 40.

Nowadays I think we have kids later but mlc can replace the empty nest phase. Where I live now it is literally translated as the crisis of the 40's.


But all of that is a side note on what I planned to say. Most people can remain relatively healthy and active into their 70s and beyond. I am sure the stresses accumulated over the last few years may have taken affect on you but you are not old. I'm saying this to me too. Ultimately we decide how we are going to live. I want a better more full filling life and I know I will achieve that. Our situations do restrain us but we really do have the power to minimise that and live fuller.

At times in the past I have felt this restriction due to my M situation.It was oppressing. I was growing and I felt this was containing me. Now I no longer feel that way. Either the cage has expanded of I have learned that I placed most of the bars in that cage myself. Either way I feel I can do so much more regardless of my situation. Although I am at this 2.5 years in some ways I feel I am only starting to really grow. I am excited for where it will lead me. I wish the same for you.

Those being ignored moments are terrible. At least you have a sanctuary by having your own room and H hides most of the time in his. Still they do feel disrespectful and it is. But what helps me is believing it is not: intentional nor personal against me even though she is v affectionate with our kids. But she is doing the best she can, just as your H is. Believe that.

As you well know his comments about being middle again d stem more from his insecurities about it rather than his assessment of you. I admire you resisting the urge to clobber him but instead respond lightheartedly with a smile. Not reacting negatively greatly improves interactions or at least prevents them getting worse. Just as powerful is not letting it affect you and when it does to be able to shrug it off quickly. Your thread is a great example to newbies and everyone else on how to do those things. smile

My W hates GPS too. I used my phone one on a recent trip. My W is usua a very good co-pilot (at least for map reading and giving directions, not so much for criticising my driving- oh I have so much room to improve!!)But the last time we took the trip we missed a turn and added an hour to get back on track. I was proud to not criticise my co-pilot and remained calm. The GPS did give some directions last minute but never sent us wrong the whole weekend. W changed her usually critical opinion of GPS being crap to just her still not liking them!! I explained to my phone not to take her comments personally. Haha. grin

With BD anniversary looming, are you going to repeat your getaway weekend? Maybe before you needed it and now you don't. But I am sure a mini break would be great for you to recharge.

Best wishes


R 25 years
M 14 years
S11 & S13
Working on it alone since Oct 2014
M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years)
Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr.
Next R chat Aug'17
Still together
roist #2733242 03/08/17 09:04 AM
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I forgot to mention I was pleased to read H is more and more involved and active with sons. I hope that over time that will continue and become consistent. Yes do praise him for this, but don't hurt yourself tripping over something as you sprint over to validate. wink


R 25 years
M 14 years
S11 & S13
Working on it alone since Oct 2014
M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years)
Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr.
Next R chat Aug'17
Still together
roist #2733814 03/12/17 04:26 PM
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SBJ - no, he's not in his right mind.

Roist - what you wrote about our situations restraining us resonated with me. It's something I've been thinking about quite a bit. How do I carve out more of a life for myself within this situation? How do I plan a future? Lately, I often feel unsettled.

It's been a rough week. My dog was sick through a night. Poor guy. I was up all night, on the hour, with him. Then s11 got sick. Then s13. Then? Yep, me. I am running a sleep deficit.

Things have been quiet with h. A few snide comments. The other night at dinner he came in and turned on the light over the kitchen table. I joked and asked if he was ready to see the delicious meal I'd prepared. In an angry way he said he was checking to see if I was trying to poison him (by adding things to which he's allergic). I said, with a shrug, "well, now that is awfully paranoid of you." He didn't respond. He was huffy.

A few times he's mentioned some old memories fondly to the kids. A few funny stories about when they were young.

He sent me a message letting me know what he's going to be eating from now on. Looks like he's back on the teenage girl diet. I googled some of the newest things he's introducing into his rotation and most of them seem to help with youthful appearance. He's back on that. And overall, it's so low calorie. He's going to be cranky from hunger. I am going to bake cookies and all sorts of things to test his will.

He's in his room a lot; same as it ever was. I don't know how he can stand so much time in that confined space.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
HaWho #2733871 03/13/17 08:45 AM
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I am so sorry to read that all of you have been sick except your h. I hope you and your family are feeling better today.

Your h is in deep replay and is still looking for the fountain of youth. No matter what he tries, he's aging each and every day...poor man! Fix whatever you want and have the aroma drifting around the home. He's mouth will be watering and it won't take long for him to want some of what you've prepared. LOL!

As for him being in his room. He's either sleeping, on the computer, listening to music or just staring at the 4 walls. They can be very content being in their safe haven. For us, this would drive us nuts...but not them.

Please take care of yourself and I do hope you are feeling better.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2734779 03/18/17 05:06 AM
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Ha Who,

I'm back on track on your thread and you seem as strong as usual!

I admire your sense of humor! I think many times trying to react in a humorous way has helped my mental stability! But I have to try hard since I don't have the knack of it as you do!

Hugs !!

marye #2734891 03/18/17 09:02 PM
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Thanks Marye. It's nice to hear from you and thanks for the kind post.

Job - on the subject of deep replay, tonight while we ate a proper dinner, h had a bowl of icecream.

It's been an odd week here. I feel like all these shifts took place, like plates beneath the earth. And weird as it was when it was all happening, once it passed I came to an even more settled landscape.

The week started with me, out of the blue, thinking maybe this wasn't MLC. It's been so long now that I thought maybe this is just who he is now. Then I re-read the stages of MLC and talked myself off my own mental ledge.

Next I just got so sad that, because this has been going on so long, this is probably how my kids will remember their father "is." And that bummed me out to my core. This shapes their childhood memories so much.

After that, for a few days, I found myself wondering why he hasn't given me his resignation papers. Years ago he said he was going to get a place and start sleeping around. It seems like this was something he felt he really needed to do and I was waiting so long for it.

And the week capped out with me having a spurt of anger over so much of what he's done to all of us. How he's altered the landscape of our lives so very much. I wanted to say something to him; ask him to get himself together--get a grip.

Then after all that I had moments where I thought I should do more. But what? He kicked me to the curb and then basically wrote me a (really weird) power point presentation on the stupid things I needed to do to fix the whole marriage single handedly.

Sometimes I wonder if I am even being a lighthouse? I try to remember that doing nothing is doing something.

Anyway, it's been a mental gymnastics sort of week here. But after it all passed I do feel like I hit more solid ground. I deserve so much more than this. While I know that, I feel myself really believing it in a whole new way. It's some sort of shift that has been cemented after all the turmoil this week.

A couple quick h updates. He helped kids w/homework this week. A first in a long while. So I thanked him. His immediate response was a cantankerous: "I didn't do it for you" (complete with a scoff). Me (very lightly): "well, I know that but it happened to save me time so thanks."

What a punk.

Last night I said something that made h laugh and he laughed in a way I have not seen in years. It went on and one in his old way. Then when he stopped minutes later he laughed all over again. And his eyes danced.

He was showing me something and had to adjust my legs to explain. It is the first time he has happened to touch me since Christmas. I felt nothing. It was neither awkward nor painful. That made me sad. Just nada.

As h shifted something I saw him looking at a photo album. I would think he'd have to see how happy we all were. But probably he was only looking at himself and lamenting the degree to which he's aged.

And today in the kitchen, he asked if I was feeling better. I said yes and he said he could tell. I said he was lucky he didn't get it. He said he did and that the sore throat was bad, but he never lost his voice. Truly, it felt like a conversation with a co-worker. Polite, civil but absolutely nothing more. Monday morning water bubbler talk.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
HaWho #2734894 03/18/17 10:26 PM
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Hi Hawho,

Thanks for stopping by my thread.

I know what you mean when talking about the kids memories. I'm always pondering this. I don't want them to think it okay to just walk away from a marriage/problem (especially when we weren't having marriage trouble that I know of), I don't want them to think what w has done/is doing w/herself is normal, and I don't want them to think our current situation is either. What can one do? They're going to remember her dragging them off and that she leaves town ever other week.

You're h's response to the homework sounds like my w. She can't take a compliment from me at all. I think it is counter to their illusion of how terrible we are.

Maybe we can start a MLC diet book. W informed me last week she was now only eating hard boiled eggs and nothing else....great, lol. I immediately thought of your post about the low calories and being moody.

Glad you're feeling better and on solid ground again. And yes we all deserve better, it's a shame our MLcers can't see how lucky they could be.

Kyh #2734922 03/19/17 07:05 AM
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HaWho,
Your h is taking very small baby steps He's helping the kids w/their homework and he inquired as to if you were feeling better. These are steps in the right direction. You have to look at the whole picture and I can see some improvement in his behavior once in a while. Far, far different from a year ago.

He knows that he's in a safe environment and you've not put pressure on him to straighten up. He's comfortable in his dorm room and the only way that I see him moving out is if you put a lot of pressure on him or start getting on him, i.e., like a mother would do. You've keep your home relatively calm, quiet and safe. Unless that changes...he's there for the long haul.

All you can do is guide your boys and show them the unconditional love and compassion you have for them and their father. They are very much aware that something is off w/their father and hopefully this will not be something that they will be harmed by because you've been the strong, lighthouse for them as well.

Keep up the good work. Maybe the Easter Bunny will bring him an Easter Egg that will bring him good tidings and help him get himself together and return to the land of the living.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
HaWho #2735005 03/20/17 03:28 AM
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I WOW hawho, what a week, though at this stage they probably all seem similar... .. unfortunately for you. Your post brought a few thoughts to mind:

You have been sick and surely tireder than usual. I find that when I am tired I am less positive, less optimistic and definitely less tolerant. That could have been a part of your shifting emotional outlook. Regardless of the cause I think such shifts are important to move forward. The question is what are you going to DO with your Newfound clearness. I remember asking the same a while back about your Scarlet O'Hara mentality. I think such moments are prompts from your subconscious that you are ready to change something. It can be difficult to figure out what, but it can be a great opportunity to expand.

Sometimes a change can just be in our way of thinking or our viewpoint on something. But ideally that change in our mentality does lead to change in our attitudes which drives our actions.

There were times during my situation that "doing nothing" was the hardest thing to DO. Doing nothing however does not mean you do nothing. IMO it refers to doing nothing directly or indirectly specifically to change something about the R/ the WAS and/or AP. However it does not exclude other actions in all the other areas of DBing and in life.

That being said, in your situation, it must take tremendous effort and energy just to withstand his shitte and not be an emotional wreck. Sometimes I feel we are in a wild river and it is an achievement just to stay in place and not get swept in emotional turmoil. You have withstood a lot for so long and keep getting hit daily by more waves. Like many others here, I can only congratulate you on being able to do that.

O
Where did you do your reading on mlc stages? I ask for me. IMO it is MLC, but the label changes nothing. Remember your H wasn't always like this so chances are he will not always be like this either. Actually I believe it is inevitable that eventually he will change (for the better). I can understand you feeling numb towards H and also your frustration due to how long this has been going on. You could look at the positive in that you are three years closer to the end, than when you started. In other words you have never been so close to it ending. You cannot argue with, that logic and each passing day brings you closer to the end of this crisis.

Our attitude, behavior and actions can influence the outcome and the pace leading up to that. I would like job to be more specific on how you rattle his cage to help him progress quicker. Until job provides her insight, I would comment that there is a long timeframe still ahead. It is up to us how we live that phase. Work towards living it as fully as possible.

This could be just me, but I find it unacceptable that your H would eat a bowl of ice cream whilst you and you kids eat a proper meal. Stamp that out. It is a lowsy example for your children. How can we expect them to eat/behave properly if their dad doesn't. Again this is just my opinion. He is free to eat whatever he wants in his room (again not ideal role model but better than at table).

Can I get a copy of his diet plan that replaces a meal with ice cream !?!? Haha. Or did he catch you poisoning him again. Haha.


R 25 years
M 14 years
S11 & S13
Working on it alone since Oct 2014
M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years)
Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr.
Next R chat Aug'17
Still together
roist #2735006 03/20/17 03:31 AM
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I forgot to mention that at least in my situation I have found that doing nothing was exactly what I needed to do. It was the best, though hardest approach. I would add that "doing nothing" is not appropriate ALL THE TIME

Best wishes


R 25 years
M 14 years
S11 & S13
Working on it alone since Oct 2014
M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years)
Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr.
Next R chat Aug'17
Still together
roist #2735016 03/20/17 04:57 AM
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Jim Conway has a book out there on his MLC, as well as his wife wrote a book about his MLC. You may want to read those two books. However, we use to have a poster named HeartsBlessing who took the stages described by Jim Conway and expanded them when her h went thru his crisis. However, w/both of them, you can't set your watch by the timelines because each and every person going thru crisis will either take longer or shorter time, but the stages give you an idea of what might happen. They are just a guideline, i.e., very similar to grieving. HeartsBlessing no longer posts here and you may want to google her name and locate her that way because we aren't allowed to share other sites on here. Also, you can change your posting timeline at the bottom left hand corner at the Display Options. Change it to all and do a search of her name that way. I can't guarantee that all of her postings are still here, but it's worth a try. Maybe HaWho will share what she has since we have gone thru several purges and a lot of excellent data has been lost forever.


HaWho #2735077 03/20/17 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted By: HaWho
Thanks Marye. It's nice to hear from you and thanks for the kind post.

Job - on the subject of deep replay, tonight while we ate a proper dinner, h had a bowl of icecream.

It's been an odd week here. I feel like all these shifts took place, like plates beneath the earth. And weird as it was when it was all happening, once it passed I came to an even more settled landscape.

The week started with me, out of the blue, thinking maybe this wasn't MLC. It's been so long now that I thought maybe this is just who he is now. Then I re-read the stages of MLC and talked myself off my own mental ledge.

Next I just got so sad that, because this has been going on so long, this is probably how my kids will remember their father "is." And that bummed me out to my core. This shapes their childhood memories so much.

After that, for a few days, I found myself wondering why he hasn't given me his resignation papers. Years ago he said he was going to get a place and start sleeping around. It seems like this was something he felt he really needed to do and I was waiting so long for it.

And the week capped out with me having a spurt of anger over so much of what he's done to all of us. How he's altered the landscape of our lives so very much. I wanted to say something to him; ask him to get himself together--get a grip.

Then after all that I had moments where I thought I should do more. But what? He kicked me to the curb and then basically wrote me a (really weird) power point presentation on the stupid things I needed to do to fix the whole marriage single handedly.

Sometimes I wonder if I am even being a lighthouse? I try to remember that doing nothing is doing something.

Anyway, it's been a mental gymnastics sort of week here. But after it all passed I do feel like I hit more solid ground. I deserve so much more than this. While I know that, I feel myself really believing it in a whole new way. It's some sort of shift that has been cemented after all the turmoil this week.

A couple quick h updates. He helped kids w/homework this week. A first in a long while. So I thanked him. His immediate response was a cantankerous: "I didn't do it for you" (complete with a scoff). Me (very lightly): "well, I know that but it happened to save me time so thanks."

What a punk.

Last night I said something that made h laugh and he laughed in a way I have not seen in years. It went on and one in his old way. Then when he stopped minutes later he laughed all over again. And his eyes danced.

He was showing me something and had to adjust my legs to explain. It is the first time he has happened to touch me since Christmas. I felt nothing. It was neither awkward nor painful. That made me sad. Just nada.

As h shifted something I saw him looking at a photo album. I would think he'd have to see how happy we all were. But probably he was only looking at himself and lamenting the degree to which he's aged.

And today in the kitchen, he asked if I was feeling better. I said yes and he said he could tell. I said he was lucky he didn't get it. He said he did and that the sore throat was bad, but he never lost his voice. Truly, it felt like a conversation with a co-worker. Polite, civil but absolutely nothing more. Monday morning water bubbler talk.



HaWho, thanks for your continuing inspiration. I feel so many of the things you feel. Is this really MLC or did my W just change? Why hasn't she filed D papers yet? How is this affecting our children? And the aging thing...my W says she no longer believes in aging. I didn't know that was something one believed in or not.


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Gordie #2735200 03/20/17 10:53 PM
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I read the Conway books and do feel they offer excellent overviews. I personally feel these books somehow did not adequately capture the horrific turmoil inherent in MLC. This is awful to say but they seemed somewhat tame and sedate compared to what I actually was witnessing. They captured it clinically (really well) and I think Conway's stages were very much the launching pad for HB.

HB, like Job said, really chronicled the train wreck I was seeing and in so doing, offered reassurance that this thing was real and could be a true horror show. As Job said she does not post here anymore but if you google her you'll find lots of what I re-read.

There are remnants of her work here, but she has expanded on them elsewhere. Here are some of her excerpts from her days here:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1774752&page=1

And this too, but with additional insightful posts attached:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484776&page=1

Here's another link that always reassures me that I am not nuts:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/blog/surviving-your-husbands-midlife-crisis/

This one details withdrawal to acceptance (I don't read this one often as it doesn't pertain to me but it's interesting):

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...403#Post2074403

Additional pearls (this one on reconnecting):

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2191432


Thanks KYH, Job, Roist and Gordie. I appreciate your posts. I'll write more in reply next time but I did want to post up some of my go-to references.

P.S. In some of these older posts, you may recognize the wise "voice" of the poster, "Snodderly." It's Job!


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
HaWho #2735208 03/21/17 01:39 AM
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Thank you for, taking the time to link those and sharing your sources. I have in the past read excerpts of those and some posts of HB here. I looked at her current site yesterday. I will take the time to delve into that some day, but for now I need to concentrate on moving forward and my actions. I feel I have gotten stuck recently, but at the same time I feel I am on the brink of a huge step forward. Watch my space for that in the coming weeks/months!!

Best wishes


R 25 years
M 14 years
S11 & S13
Working on it alone since Oct 2014
M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years)
Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr.
Next R chat Aug'17
Still together
roist #2736016 03/25/17 12:14 PM
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Roist - I will gladly watch for the steps forward! I like the advance notice you give; it's like a pre-marketing launch: Coming Soon!

Job - it's true that in general there is progress compared to last year. This time in 2016 h was a viper, he was tossing his dishes into the garbage and spitting fire 24/7. Anger, anger & anger. His paranoia was launched this time last year. There's some improvement here, too.

Get this. A few nights ago at dinner time h is all grumpy and huffy. I pay him no attention. He huffs around more. Finally he says he left his money at x place, went back and it was gone. I ask if he's sure he left it there. He says yes. I recommend a few places for him to try (just like I would to my teen) and he gets snippy (like I am stating the obvious). So I politely drop out of the conversation.

The good news is, and this is so sad, he doesn't accuse us of stealing it. (Remember laptop-gate?)

A few days later I remember the lost money and he seems not to be mentioning it which is unusual for him as he holds onto these things for a while. So I ask f he found it. And he did! It slipped behind a shelf in his stinky dorm room. And I am glad he locks it or he probably would have accused me of stealing it and then hiding it behind the shelf. Oh, I was so close to asking if the laptop was there, too.

Lately he has taken some notice of the house. He used to be very house proud. In MLC he is ok with squalor and complete dilapidation. I noticed he's been tidying a few areas outside the dorm room. He told me to make a list of repairs and he'll call a repairman. He used to be hyper vigilant and everything worked so well. I said ok and thanks.

Anyway, things are quiet here. My new company is amazing. There is, unbelievably, an overt company-wide focus on personal growth/inner awareness for the sake of finding peace and joy. Much of it is in sync with what we practice here! I can't believe of all the companies out there that I landed here at this time of my life when I needed it most.

So weirdly coincidental. I feel blessed.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
HaWho #2736055 03/25/17 09:50 PM
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Very nice. ove regarding the company. They promote inner awareness. Incrediable.

HaWho how does the finace go in the household? My W seperated her account and didn't suggest anything about contribution to daily/monthly expenses. Sis you talk o him about these. Do you have a boundry set?


Me: 43, W: 43
M: 16, T: 18
D - 7, D - 7
ILUB: 26 August 2014
Still living together
WillDo #2737360 04/04/17 05:54 AM
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Things have been on the quiet side over here. What a change from a year ago where there was only turmoil.

As for h? Lately he seems to be spinning about his age. One day he'll enthusiastically note how young he still looks and then the next he lements he is so old. Lots of struggles with the fact that time stops for no man.

Recently he asked me how I am and he looked me in the eye. He really looked at me, too. I told him I was fine but actually I hadn't had a good day. He seemed to be trying to read my expression.

I reorganized things this weekend and in so doing came across old photo albums. Looking at 2011 and early 2012 his eyes fluctuate between "smiling," and "distant." However, for the first time I also saw some photos of him where his eyes were very defiant. There was a sternness to his jaw I had not seen before. He looks angry in many of the photos. By the middle of 2012 it's all shark eyes, which I noticed years ago.

What's interesting about those photos where his eyes are angry and defiant, is that I saw that same look before. At XMAS, while we were home, his family pulled out old pictures of him as a youth and he looked rebellious and angry in many of those photos. His jaw had the same sternness and he would jut it out just so.

The day we got together with old friends, h's buddy, who was taking pictures asked h why he never smiled for photos. Everyone is smiling and he is stone faced.

The last few days he's been up and 3 or 4 AM and he rattles around the kitchen so much he wakes me up. He is so loud. I can't but help think it's intentional. And then I can't go back to sleep. It makes for a sleepy start to my day.

I have family coming to visit in 1 month. They've never met my kids nor h. Initially they were planning to stay for 2 or 3 days. Now they'll be here 6. It's a lot given the circumstances.

Additionally, at this same exact time, my niece will be in town visiting a friend who moved here. That one worries me because she knows h. She'll for sure see the differences + she is very perceptive to boot. She's also a hit you between the eyes kind of gal. So I am getting worried on how to answer her questions without lying or coming across like my head is buried in the sand.

I haven't even told h yet about my niece coming. I am worried it'll stress him out and he'll get worse/weirder just as he did this time last year when my sisters came.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
HaWho #2737470 04/04/17 12:18 PM
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They do tend to obsess over the age and looking and acting young. They moods are up one minute and down the next. It's difficult to determine how they'll be at any given time. All you can do is just listen, step aside when they are nutty and allow them to think about things, including that "mirror, mirror, on the wall who is the fairest of them all" period of time each day.

He's trying to figure you out. You aren't reacting/responding the way that you use to and he's puzzled by your changes. That's okay...it's good for him to inquire and mull things over.

Now, it's going to be something when your family comes for a week and then your niece is coming to town too...that will be interesting. If she asks questions, be honest to a point, and if the questions are too much for you to handle, just say, it's a work in progress and hopefully things will settle down in the future.

I don't think I would mention the niece coming until closer to the time. Why? Because her plans may very well change.

The next month or so is going to be stressful in your household. Plan to have some activities that will help you and your sons when dealing with the stressors.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
HaWho #2737505 04/04/17 04:00 PM
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HaWho,

You are awesome. Interesting what you said about his eyes over time. Was he angry all those years?

Re house guests, I don't know how you do it. Since this began, I have asked family and friends not I stay with us.


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Gordie #2737554 04/05/17 05:13 AM
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The shark eyes do tend to appear when they are in crisis. I always think of the shark eyes as their soul dies, i.e., the empathy chip becomes broken and the depression sets in and any feelings/emotions that they have for people get stuffed down in the deepest, darkest part of their soul. As they progress through the MLC, those shark eyes will eventually disappear and the sparkle and clear eyes will return. However, all of this is my own personal opinion.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2737624 04/05/17 12:29 PM
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I've seen the shark eyes turn on and off. When he is between women, no shark eyes and Mr. Friendly guy. New woman, shark eyes are back and won't look anyone in the eye or come in the house anymore. I definitely think it is tied to the empathy issue for that reason.

OwnIt #2737893 04/06/17 08:28 PM
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Gordie- yes he was angry for a long time pre-BD. He was gaslighting me but I didn't recognize it. It all happened so gradually.

Here is my favorite gaslighting story from his angry phase of MLC. Now, of course, I recognize that he was picking fights. I think secretly he wanted me to throw him out so he could go live the MLC dream.

Anyway, one day he pitched a fit because we were out of pita bread! I remember trying to calm him down and explaining it was just pita bread. But he was literally spewing over this. It was so nuts.

My plan was to wait for him to calm down and then to play a practical joke on him. (I have always loved a good joke.) When the dust settled I was going to buy 50 packs of pita wraps and store them around the house for him: in his glove compartment, in his sock drawer, in his winter coat pocket. The idea was everywhere he turned pita wraps would drop out on him. The one place that had me dying of laughter was his medicine cabinet. I kept picturing him opening it up to grab his toothbrush while an avalanche of pita wraps knocked him to the floor.

The problem is he never calmed down. He just grew angrier and angrier. In hindsight, I realize he was looking under rocks for problems.

And as for the eyes, Job and Ownit, I definitely think this is something that should be studied. Some LBS here have even noted that their MLCers eyes changed color temporarily.

Some stuff is so weird, you can't even believe it's real. Today h texted me to say he was at a place with s13 and asked if he should bring something home for me. Within 10 minutes I answered and said yes, thanks.

H said it was too late; he was already gone?!? Mmm, okay. But h said he'd bring me home a cannoli. I said ok thanks, please bring one home for s11 too. (Seemed too obvious to state, but well, it is MLC and he can't see beyond his own nose.)

I come home and S13 immediately is telling me he never got a cannoli. I ask why when he was there with h. S13 said h went to get the cannolis but, get this: he only bought one for all three of us?!? So I said to S13, not to worry, I would share mine. S13 cryptically said nah, you can't, you'll see why.

I go to the fridge and the cannoli is the size of my pinky. One of those mini ones, 1 1/2 inches long for all three of us! I am just so flabbergasted.

H walks in and I joke that he should not have bought so much. (Old h would have bought too many, like 4 lg./person; MLC h brings home 1 Barbie sized cannoli for 3 people.) He looked sheepish and uncomfortable. I know teasing is not the way to go but, I would have called out my kids on this so I called him out, too.

Oh and s13 said there were plenty of cannolis because I did consider that maybe this was the last one and h fought off crowds for it.

Just bizarre...


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
HaWho #2737907 04/07/17 03:54 AM
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The MLC diet plan. Haha


R 25 years
M 14 years
S11 & S13
Working on it alone since Oct 2014
M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years)
Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr.
Next R chat Aug'17
Still together
roist #2738507 04/11/17 01:00 PM
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Yes Roist, must be!

So here is something interesting. This morning I went see if h answered me about something I sent him yesterday (kid related). And there is an email from him from last week that I did not see. I don't check that email address often.

It's a poem. He starts by saying it's a story of two people who slipped and bumped their heads. When they awoke they were far from their bodies. They sobbed and asked for another chance. No one answered so they began to walk and talk. Until in the fog (literally he writes it) they see a light. It comes closer and it's a huge tree.

It states their names, recounts their lives and scolds them both. They ask for a second chance, judgment was cast but in the end they receive a pass; to what we'll never know until our time comes.

He writes the road is quiet now; the travelers have come and gone. But they'll be more travelers forever, on and on. And he ends by saying journey well, make your words your bond and hope the answers are pleasing to what is beyond.

As I picked up the message today, I quickly wrote back that it's beautiful. Not sure what else to say. My response is late, unintentionally so.

I suppose it's a glimpse of where he is right now. But then he's also huffy because I teased him last night and he took it so seriously.

This weekend I felt abrasive. The music started up: 2 songs I have heard for years now. I vacuumed through it. But my body language showed my annoyance. Mostly I wanted to go in, turn over his mattress and tell him to get over himself already. By Sunday night, things felt tense. I am the adult and he is growing up in a room.

Saturday in the car he turned to me and made a joke. He has not turned toward me in he car in years. I forgot he'd stopped doing that until he did it again.

Later, I heard h tell s11 something. Then s11 came over really sad and told me if I didn't want to go to his game I could stay home?!? I asked him why I would do that. He said it was a lot of time in the car. (Twenty minutes one way.). I asked whose idea this was and he said his and his dad's. Then he fessed up that it was his dad's.

I waited until s11 was at his game. Then I asked h (really calmly and quietly) if he asked s11 to tell me not to come. And this is where he gets so PA. He says yes, very sheepish. He says he knows I had to work and wanted me to rest! Right!! I called him out. I quietly said he sent S11 to do his dirty work and he shouldn't do that. I asked him to tell the truth. He walked out of the car and started to walk away.

I politely asked him not to walk away. He turned and said I was making a scene, which I was not. Plus the parking lot was empty. This is his gaslighting. Anytime he is confronted, he says it's causing a scene. I told him he has not made eye contact with me in years. He said it is unpleasant to do so. I asked him to be direct and say what he felt. He told me I was abrasive this weekend (true) and he didn't want to drive with me. I touched his arm (he bristled in a mad way) and I thanked him for looking me in the eye, saying what he felt vs. texting or sending s11 to do his work for him.

Then I calmly walked away. I asked him a question later, during the game. He was huffy. But he got over it and later in the evening was not ignoring me the way he used to do.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
HaWho #2738527 04/11/17 04:03 PM
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Hi Ha, I don't know what to say. Is this improvement? He's been status quo for so long, it does seem like there's some movement, doesn't there? I defer to the vets, but want to send you {{{{{hugs}}}}} and support. I'm very proud of you for standing up for yourself and doing it with such quiet dignity. You didn't give him any wiggle room to turn it into something it wasn't.

xoxoxoxo

Good job!


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
bttrfly #2738620 04/12/17 07:52 AM
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I wrote a long reply but lost it just before posting!! Anyway here is, he short version.

Did you ask H about the poem, what it meant to him or why he shared it with you? Maybe you should. You may not get any clarity. Probably won't.

Here is my reading of the situation. H deep down wants to reconnect with you. He may not know that and definetly doesn't know how to go about that. Maybe he doesn't believe he can reconnect with you. The problem is that half hearted sporadic gestes like this can never achieve that. He us setting himself up to fail and hence prove himself right.

I imagine it took him some effort and time to send that to yo. He probably hymed and hawed for a long time. Then he sends it and you ignore it for a full week. OK I know you didn't but to him he probably thinks that you did. He would have liked an immediate response and as time passed it probably bugged him, adding to your recent interactions.

I am nit saying to fall over backwards nor to make a big deal of this but IMO it is another but bigger attempt to let you know he would like to connect. 8 will admit I am reading a lot into it. But there has been a patternand he has reached out before.

Neither of you are in a place where reconnection is possible at the moment. Even so if you see and react well to all attempts to reach out to you, you could help drastically improve interactions.

I say this just to try look at things from another perspective and I admit it could just be some meaningless act of a madman.

I think you did well in your other interactions and you were right to call him on his behaviour using son. He may not like you having done so but his esteem of you will have increased despite his reaction.

What can you do to stop his music choice affecting you so much?

And yes that was the short version!!


R 25 years
M 14 years
S11 & S13
Working on it alone since Oct 2014
M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years)
Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr.
Next R chat Aug'17
Still together
HaWho #2738648 04/12/17 10:19 AM
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You have the patience of a saint. The cannoli, the poem, the game...wow.


Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids
2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong
2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2
2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
roist #2738649 04/12/17 10:31 AM
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I agree w/what roist posted. Your h, in his own half @ss way in trying to reconnect and he truly doesn't know how to go about it. He's tried various things and because of the way he's going about it, he's set himself up to fail. He's still in crisis and quite frankly, he's still trying to reach you through the eyes and manners of a teenager, not as an adult.

The poem is a step in the right direction. Because you didn't respond back for a while, he was disappointed again. He most likely didn't think that you might not be looking at that account. Had it typed it, printed it off and left it where you would find it, the response time would have been far quicker. He's still not thinking like an adult.

HaWho, you are far too close to your situation and you can't see what is going on. If you can step back just a wee bit, you'll see he has and continues to try to reconnect some of the time. Sometimes he does it in a negative way and then there are other times more positive...he just doesn't know what works just yet...

Maybe it's time to talk to him about the music situation. If you can do it in way that he doesn't take your comments in a negative way, he just might change it up. Sometimes, I think he plays that music to get your attention.

Bottom line, I see positives here. I can see where he's grown a wee bit and needs more encouragement and positive reinforcement on the things that he does do. I know, you thank him, etc., but encourage more of the poem writing, etc. That may be the only way that he can communicate w/you at the moment.

Just my two cents.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2738951 04/14/17 12:59 PM
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Thanks Roist and Job. I can't express how much I appreciate your feedback and input. Job, I just thought it was too soon for all this as he is still deep in replay?

It's funny, when I saw the poem he emailed, I thought: now THIS you should text.

Roist, had I picked up the message earlier I would have followed through on your great advice to ask him about what the poem means to him. Unfortunately, I missed that boat.

Job, I agree that I am too close to the situation to see the small changes. In fact, they are so small, they are just like when he started w/the denial and anger: lots of tiny dots, too sporadic to connect.

So, I did explain to him face-to-face that I missed the email as I don't check that account often. I apologized. He truly reacted like a scorned teen. He downplayed/wanted desperately to change the subject. I don't blame him. (It is unfortunate it happened that way.) He told me it was for posterity--for the kids. And then said: so they could read it when he was dead. But then he said he is not dead yet. (I know it was for me and he was too hurt to admit it.)

Some other small changes: he almost always "sees" the kids now. He has moments where he is an adult. Sometimes he shows glimpses of depth and wisdom vs. the selfishness and superficiality that were ever present.

Job - I like your advice of approaching him about the music. I am thinking about ways to do that. However; I am hoping to hold out until after family visits. I just don't want to add any stress to him whatsoever. Honestly, I am a bit stressed about the visit myself. I think it's all a trigger for the paranoia that started when family visited last year.

Speaking of which, he still locks his door all the time: when he showers in the hall bathroom, when he goes to get the mail, when he goes to the garage, etc. I think if he can stop doing that he will have rounded a significant turning point in this mess that is his life.

As for me? I am well. I am working hard, both in and outside the home. I listen to a lot of podcasts these days. I continue to walk a lot, eat well and look for the humor in things.

Happy Easter weekend to all!


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
HaWho #2738959 04/14/17 01:19 PM
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Happy Easter to you and your family!

New Thread:

On Higher Ground


Last edited by job; 04/14/17 03:13 PM. Reason: Added link to new thread

Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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