Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 11 1 2 3 4 10 11
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 956
C
ciluzen Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
C
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 956
Thank you, Job. I had planned to follow your advice, but D24 called me this evening (rather than respond to my "how are you doing" text at midmorning) and told me I could call her dad this evening.

She gave me some more details of events leading to her depression, and sounded a bit better than early this morning. She also let it slip that she and her boyfriend were going on the annual ski trip that used to be a tradition for our family and Bubbles' (as well as other assorted families over the years). She seemed to think I knew all of the details, when in fact, I only knew D26 and her husband were going for five days. Now I know it will be my girls and their men, XH, Bubbles and her H and kids, and a bunch of other kids. I know how long and where. I've fluctuated between feeling betrayed by my family to feeling that, well...I guess this is what divorce is. I have three interviews for the grad program that Friday...go me.

I did text XH and ask if I could discuss D24 with him, which was fine. I explained what I knew and the texts from this morning. He seemed oddly accepting and unconcerned at first. I did mention that I knew about her going on the ski trip, and then he expressed worry about her possible behavior on the trip. He just wanted her to have a vacation and that he really didn't want to make her unhappy on the trip.He actually seemed very worried about her becoming upset and it being because of him...a genuine fear. I sensed a lot of tension, almost anger, as I did during our talks at the beginning of our separation. Is it just him trying to hold back the emotion that makes him sound that way? I notice he actively tries to not compliment, support, or encourage me in any way. He, in fact, avoids any mention of me as anything other than a sounding board when he has that tension in his voice. I'm not a wife, mother, XW, or even a person; just a voice. I stressed how big a step that was for her to actually make the effort to go on the trip...how important it obviously was to her. He kept saying how important it was to have a vacation; that she deserved a vacation. It was very important to him that he give that to her and not be the cause of messing that up and causing her to "gouge out an eye" (his exact words).

And then it hit me. Our last vacation to Hawaii together 8 years ago. When I ruined the trip by having a sobbing meltdown because I couldn't take his overt attention to Bubbles over me any more. The trip that he worked hard to organize and arrange that I "didn't appreciate his efforts to make happen" and that he deserved. I ruined the one thing that he looked forward to to keep him sane. So he stopped allowing me to go, booking trips without me and causing my jealousy to grow because I only saw those trips from my perspective; from the point of view of the left behind spouse. Not from his point of view; the man who needed to have fun and a total break from stress with people who wanted to have fun with him and appreciated his efforts.

He wants to give this vacation to her because he feels that they will help her to feel better; to save her, just as he needs his vacations to save him.

He used to get so angry that this same daughter would get hurt or injured before many of our trips. Livid! I wonder if views my calling to bring up her issues as yet another time his vacation might be jeopardized by D24s health issues, but my fault this time as he doesn't want to blame her but fix her with the time off and also I'm always trying to ruin his fun. Ugh. I'm still over thinking instead of detaching.


M-51 H-54
2D-27 and 25
M-26 yrs
Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15
He moved out 10-3-15
D filed 1-27-16
D final 10-27-16

Kindness, kindness, kindness.
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,119
Likes: 408
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,119
Likes: 408
I understand you want to give him options since it's his day off. Your daughter may feel that the two of you together are too much for her to deal with. You don't know why she's so low right now. I also think you should see your daughter alone then if she is ok with you talking to her father, then do so.

She's reaching out to you for a reason.Believe me I understand you don't want to keep anything from him but given your daughter's account of their visit at Christmas, how much help and support would he realistic give right now?

I'm not saying to keep anything from him. I'm saying talk to her first. Hope this helps xoxoxoxo sending {{{{{hugs}}}}}


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 956
C
ciluzen Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
C
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 956
Thanks bttrfly, for the hugs. I realize that your post was based on the info from the previous post. I almost wish that I hadn't called XH; but actually, as I said in the post right after, I made some connections to the overwhelming importance of his downtime.

After more thought, I realized that he may never "get it". His downtime and vacations are so important to him that he sees anything or anyone who could possibly cause an issue with those times off as a personal threat or affront. He may never see, for instance, that he recreated me as a bully and a threat to his fun only AFTER he started planning our (yes, OUR) vacations with Bubbles and focussing more on her than me. I was told at one point pre-separation to "stop beating me (him) up". This was after I had found out about their weekend alone together and refused to go on a ski trip with him and Bubbles family, so he chose to go with them alone. He was drunk and angry with me and questioned why I wouldn't hop in the car and join him there, after I had already explained days before that I had no desire to even be in the same room with him and her together. I explained it again and that was the response I got.

During separation, I had asked if I worked on the things I needed to change about me, would he consider ever getting back together with me, and his response was, "could you stop beating me up whenever I try to have fun." The idea of me as the "bully" keeps popping up. He has been talking lately about bullys a lot, too. The last time he vented to me, he spoke of his dad being a bully and compared him to our old next door neighbor. He told me our next door neighbor only wanted to be our friend so he could bully us. So, I wonder, if he feels I bullied him...does he think I only was close to him so that I could bully him? I have never seen him as this insecure, scared, victimized little boy that I'm seeing lately.

Along those same lines, he told me of how horribly his older brother was victimized by a kid in middle school. He was beaten up one time and humiliated by the kid when, during the beating, the kid ripped his clothes off of him. I wonder sometimes, if it actually happened to HIM? Or did it leave such an impression because he witnessed it (he never spoke of it as if he saw it...he just told the story in a detached way). And he was embarrassed more than concerned acting when D24 was victimized by a group of girls in middle school, like he wished it would just go away. Over-thinking again. And mind-reading.

Each time we have spoken, as of late, I learn something new about him. I really don't know him right now. He seems so different than the man I thought I knew. Either I've been blind to this all along, or the stresses have really brought things forward. Either way, I don't think he's in a place to see his part in this very clearly. That the bully in this picture was really him. And just like most bullies, his actions are based on his own fears and percieved weaknesses.

Meanie me, I wouldn't let him do anything fun.


M-51 H-54
2D-27 and 25
M-26 yrs
Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15
He moved out 10-3-15
D filed 1-27-16
D final 10-27-16

Kindness, kindness, kindness.
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 956
C
ciluzen Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
C
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 956
So, its been a few weeks since I've posted to my own thread. I guess I'll call this an update/journal post. A few thoughts; some ideas.

I have a series of four interviews for my program at the university today. I think its a good sign that they asked me for interviews, so I'm not too nervous. My workmates were trying their hardest to make me nervous, though. My new partner at work was even looking up sample questions online and throwing them at me throughout the day yesterday! I really enjoy working with him. We've quickly established a friendship, which isn't surprising...foxhole situation that we're in. We are in a room with just our student most of the day due to his behavior needs, so the three of us create a close partnership/bond rather quickly.

One of the questions he gave me provoked quite a bit of thought...even into this morning. "What trait do you consider your biggest weakness?" I've been working so hard on peeling back each layer of myself, analyzing, and then attempting to work on the negative aspects I discover. Yet no matter how hard I try, there is one that keeps popping up that holds me back and causes me to ruminate and perseverate; I can't let it go.

Jealousy.

That feeling of being left out or forgotten; not missed by others, thus creating a sense of being unimportant and unnecessary. I really struggle with that right now. My (adult) kids and their men are on the "family ski trip" with XH and Bubbles' family and a bunch of extra teens right now. I had to be there via phone and text while D24 struggled this week with issues related to anxiety about the trip, then excitement yesterday about being able to get it together and get on her way. I made a snide comment about Bubbles. It just came right out of my mouth. I apologized and told her that this is hard for me, but I also know that it is hard for her for unrelated reasons. Now I worry I might have set her off,and could just kick myself for it.

D26 came last weekend to spend some time with me, said we could go for a hike, but kept mentioning how she only had so much time because she was so busy. Both of them are on this trip for FIVE DAYS! And paying out of pocket for it. Then D26 posted a happy birthday message to a now D friend (used to be XH's best friend before friend's D) who used to go with his family on this trip but hadn't for 4 years. Her message that it wouldnt be the same without him and that he was missed...I understood the sentiment, but then my jealousy took over, screaming "what about ME?! You won't miss ME?" How selfish. But that is my biggest issue and the hardest to overcome. When I mention it to people I know, including my therapist, they feed it instead; telling me I have every right to feel left out, jealous, unappreciated, etc. It doesn't help. I don't think everyone should have to walk on eggshells around me or have to feel guilty for having fun. But how do I not feel that my own kids only are with me when they need me or are obligated to spend time with me, but they'd rather be part of the "party" with Dad? Heck, I'd rather be part of the party with Dad. But I'm not.

Kind of hard to detach. My jealousy is my one huge block I need to overcome in order to detach. Right now, no amount of GALing or keeping busy is able to cut into this unhealthy thought pattern. My friends are actually too supportive (LOL) in that they support this pity party. I'm noticing others here mention this jealousy issue, or "unfairness", too. It seems to be common (Disney Dad or Mom has been said) Anyone have any suggestions that work/ worked for them?


M-51 H-54
2D-27 and 25
M-26 yrs
Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15
He moved out 10-3-15
D filed 1-27-16
D final 10-27-16

Kindness, kindness, kindness.
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,301
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 5,301
Hi Cil, good for you with the interview invite and hope all goes well. My tip from HR for the 'weakness' question is pick one or two that are generally true, but they will also like.

For me, I'm a bit of a perfectionist and I really want to do a good job but sometimes I get a little OTT. I interviewed someone recently who said his biggest weakness was oversleeping - which wasn't a great choice!!

As for your feelings of jealousy. I can relate to them - particularly with XH's family. We were all pretty close (so I thought) and used to go on holiday (15 or so of us.) I came to see them as my own extended family and I was pretty devastated to be cut out of their lives. I imagine the holidays still go on and perhaps OW now goes too - so it has been something to come to terms with and actually one of the most hurtful things for me.

What has helped? Living and letting live I guess has helped. I try and drop the comparisons, count my blessings and make my own plans. My feelings towards OW have neutralised somewhat too. I wouldn't want to have to see her, but she doesn't take up much of my headspace and I don't envy her current 'lot' in life. Also, if we set ourselves 'outside' of what we perceive to be 'fun' it isn't really a helpful thought pattern.

Actually, those going on holiday will be there with all kinds of baggage and having differing degrees of a nice time. Some may have the flu. Others may be getting on each other's nerves and someone else may be wishing they'd rather stayed at home!

Yes, your XH may have become a bit of a Disney Dad with a bit of a fun crowd. But let's face it, that crowd were not true friends to you - just as XH's family were not loyal to me. I think your D's rely on you for more important things and know you are there for them.

I hope you'll be kind to yourself and do some nourishing things whilst they are away. Maybe make arrangements to see a friend, or book an outing or even a trip for yourself. These non-true friends will all do what they will do and it needn't take the shine off your day at all....live and let be....

Also, it does take time and I imagine your feelings about this will change going forward too.

Take care Cil, and hope you have a lovely weekend xx


T 13 M 7
Me 48 H 46
SS 15
BD 7.14 PA
D final 5.16 (H filed)

We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,119
Likes: 408
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,119
Likes: 408
Hi Doll,
I read this originally on my cell phone but had to log in from the desktop to give you my input on this.

First: good luck today! You'll do great, I know it! Give us an update on how the interviews went xoxoxo

Now, re: the jealousy. My perspective is probably not typical, but it's based on my experience and work that I've done with my therapist, who in addition to traditional therapy also incorporates non-traditional modalities, like buddhist psychology. So from that perspective we all come into this life with a core issue. My understanding is that the people who cause us the deepest pain are in fact people we have a soul contract with to work on specific things.

Here is an example of what I mean: my core issue is abandonment and having those closest to me withhold love in order to control me.

In my case, my ExH and I would have a soul contract that I would help him face and work on his abandonment and trauma surrounding his parents divorce. He in turn would help me work on my abandonment trauma and having love withheld by those closest to me. In this way, we work on our core issues (or not), unwinding the unhealthy pattern so we are free to move forward. Make sense?

So - in your case, your core issue could be jealousy. Bubbles, bless her heart, and your husband may have a soul contract with you - she being the catalyst and he being someone who is there to teach you how to unwind the pattern so you can be free.

What I like about this is there isn't any enabling in this perspective. There is acknowledgement that the issue exists, but with that awareness and acknowledgement comes personal responsibility to heal.

So, all that being said, when we deal with our core issues, we often experience what you've described: a huge block that we struggle to overcome.

My best advice is to take it apart in chunks. Try to find out when and where you first experienced jealousy. What were the circumstances surrounding that. Go deeper into the jealousy response to try to discover what's underneath it.

In my case, having someone close to me withdraw or withhold love leaves me not only with a feeling of abandonment, but beneath that are many other layers. One is feeling powerless. So by working on that and asking myself am I really powerless? What am I powerless over and what am I not powerless over gives me a good place to do some healing work. Also in there is the notion that I cannot be truly abandoned unless I have also abandoned myself. Again, the task would be to look at all the ways I may have abandoned myself and work on not only healing that but also making sure I don't do it again.

So your task would be to really do a deep dive into jealousy, how you manifest it, why are you using it as a response tool. Are you going to the jealous place to mask some other feelings that are really painful. If so, what are they? Am I making sense here? I hope I haven't overstepped my bounds or broken any rules. If I have, Job feel free to delete this post.

Cil - I hope this helps you xoxoxo


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 956
C
ciluzen Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
C
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 956
Sotto and Bttrfly, thank you for your very helpful responses!

I think I did alright on my interviews. Two separate interviews with faculty and staff,and one with two current students that was more about me asking them questions about their experiences with the program. I also had a 30 minute writing prompt in which I had to read an article and create a five paragraph response. I didn't get to write my conclusion,but...can't change that.I find out in a few weeks how I did.

I've also, as of today,finished the work for my psych class (finally!). I have a proctored final exam in about a week, but all papers and other tests are done.

Sotto, its nice to hear that things have calmed down over time. It gives me hope that maybe I won't be quite so emotionally involved when it comes to kids doing things with Bubbles. Right now, though, they know what transpired between Bubbles and their dad; so to me it feels like at least, insensitivity and at most, betrayal that they chose to go on this trip. It is a three day weekend and I have planned some relaxing and fun activities with and without friends. But that negative feeling is there. If it was just XH and the kids, I think I'm at a place where that would be fine. I keep saying it gets better because much of it has, but I keep hoping the lump in my throat and visiting emotional moments and thoughts of XH go away some day.You have given me hope.

Bttrfly, I really do need to explore the jealousy bit. I got into a discussion years ago about jealousy with XH, when we were newlyweds. He had asked if I would be angry if a girl hit on him at a bar (don't remember why). I told him I wasn't the jealous type, but imagined I would be angrier with him for allowing it since he had a relationship with me, than at her for doing it, because he was so good looking. Boy was I ever wrong about myself!

I do remember feeling left out, though. I never really dated in highschool. I had lots of guy friends who I surfed with, studied with, went to movies and just hung out and talked with. But for some reason...no dates or dances. It was almost comical! Plenty of friends, but missed out on the highschool dating/dance scene (except dateless dances). I did date a bit in college, but had decided I'd never have a guy see "the real me" and love me when suddenly I came across my XH. But even then, my MOM pushed him (there's that comedy) to ask me out in the first place. People always joke that I'm oblivious to people hitting on me and I don't know how to flirt.

So, the jealousy? I'll need to explore. I wanted something so badly when younger that seemed to come so naturally to everyone else, but fear or awkwardness kept it at bay. Insecurity? Something. Maybe its just anger at myself?


M-51 H-54
2D-27 and 25
M-26 yrs
Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15
He moved out 10-3-15
D filed 1-27-16
D final 10-27-16

Kindness, kindness, kindness.
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 956
C
ciluzen Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
C
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 956
So, quick catch up for the day...I got into my MFT program! I start in June.

Also, tomorrow is my birthday and although I've spoken to my girls, I've not heard a thing about that. I am celebrating after work with a bunch of people - I took things into my own hands since it is the big 5-0, but nothing from my girls. Not sure what to think about that. If I've learned anything lately, its "no expectations", LOL! Plus, its "restaurant week" here, so I've been out to dinner, lunch, or brunch with a different friend almost every day since Thursday. Nothing tonight but salad and jumping on my trampoline (a mini to keep my legs ready for skiing).

On the H front, haven't seen him for awhile. I have spoken to him three times today, though. We're still trying to get part of his IRA transferred to me as per D agreement, but our brokerage is having trouble. They have all the info and paperwork, but well...it will happen. They have all of the notes and records of both of us calling, so I know its all them. Its infuriating. Funny, H keeps telling me of his convos and still refers to me as his "wife". He has yet to catch that mistake. I make sure I say XH when talking, but he still hasn't changed it up. Its wierd talking to him, though. Its as if nothing has happened to change the R...except we never see each other or talk unless we are dealing with something, and have nothing to do with each other.

I took down my paintings from my March venue, and the owner asked if I would do it again in January. So, I have a future booking! My printer also asked me to join an artists group, so now I have two groups to show with, studio and show space, and some helpful resources and mentors for the business questions I have. And I have artist peers! Kind of exciting, really.

So, now I get to concentrate on painting more pictures and finding a house until June when school starts. I'm also going to coach Special Olymics soccer again this spring. Life seems to be coming together now that I've been learning to just relax a little and open myself up to the possibilities. I can say that much of the time I feel genuine happiness. I still, however, miss H. Can't lie about missing our talks and physical touch. But my talks with him each time make me realize, he's not who he once was. I hope some day he gets happy with himself. I will try to keep moving forward, but I am still trying to be the lighthouse. Not sure how long I can do it, though. Not sure of anything at all, except that anything is possible and anything can happen. Life can change in an instant, the world can turn upside down, or our paths can fork suddenly; as all of us here know all too well.


M-51 H-54
2D-27 and 25
M-26 yrs
Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15
He moved out 10-3-15
D filed 1-27-16
D final 10-27-16

Kindness, kindness, kindness.
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 956
C
ciluzen Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
C
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 956
And after all of that about calling him XH while he still refers to me as "wife", I still managed to call him H. Oops!


M-51 H-54
2D-27 and 25
M-26 yrs
Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15
He moved out 10-3-15
D filed 1-27-16
D final 10-27-16

Kindness, kindness, kindness.
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 28,295
Likes: 112
job Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 28,295
Likes: 112
Happy Birthday! I hope you enjoy your special day!

Congratulations on the MFT Program! I'm sure you are excited and can't wait to start.

I think it's wonderful about the March venue! I'm sure your painting are beautiful and the people who purchase them enjoy them each and every day.

You have a full plate from now to June...just be sure you take some time to recharge your battery along the way.

Again, congratulations and Happy Birthday!


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Page 2 of 11 1 2 3 4 10 11

Moderated by  Cadet, DnJ, job, Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard