WAS vs MLC..not sure it really makes a diffence

[Gordie]

My H never thought about the consequences of having an affair could have on our kids or I could catch him,, he was focused only on himself. He became also "blind" to some issues at work. His priorities were totally different. He thought also that nobody noticed how much he changed.

His priorities are now much more in tune with reality, but I had to kick his la la land several times to make him land on Earth again. I reached a point where I had nothing to lose anyway, I had to protect myself and the kids from his actions/decisions. Somehow in his limbo mind he understood that I was very serious and even if I still cared for him I was going to put my needs first exactly as he was doing. His control over me was over even if I still loved him.

Skyhigh--

I have a W who is in MLC and has become infatuated with one of her employees (20 years her junior who has a 3-year GF his own age). She is so in La La Land she wants a D and split up our family with five kids ("the kids will be happier when I am happier"). Nothing I have said or done has changed her overall resolve (though there have been signs of confusions and contradiction). I desperately want to shake up La La Land, but have been at a loss for how to do it. I never contemplated your selective disclosure strategy...something for me to consider.

[skyhigh]

Skm, stop blaming yourself for how you reacted when you discovered his affair.

You were hurt, your trust in your husband was shattered, you were traumatized, your emotional world had been assaulted. You reacted the way most all of us did. Your husband made the decision to have an affair, he was the one by his actions who pulled the trigger on your relationship, he could have come to you and share his unhappiness.

No, he had to blame you, he made you responsible for his affair. How twisted is that!

Remember they are great at manipulating our mind. Also, he blamed you for your reactions and used that for not working on the relationship but to make it worst, again he turned himself into a victim and you were the villain ! Really! What were you expected to say "That's great, I feel so good, you made my day, I love being cheated on, you are the greatest husband on Earth"... Mine did the same after DB 1 and 2 with OW1.. it's another way around to turn themselves into victims again.

You were the victim, he was the villain, so he had to find a way to put the burden on you, since we are humans so de facto we are not perfect, he came up with whatever he could think of to justify his actions. The question is: Is cheating really an excuse to solve marital issues? I don't think so.

You are right if you need to have a conversation with him you will have to show up to his door because you are "reality" and he doesn't want to face it, he wants his "fantasy" life.

Also remember they are liars, they know very well to use "feelings" and "nice words" when they need something or when they need to escape a situation where they know they are in trouble. My H used to tell me "I love you, I will never leave you, I am done with that woman", meanwhile he was still in contact with OW. They are also excellent at gas lighting.

Don't hang to his words but rather to his actions. I hung to his words and each time, I was very deceived until one day, I stopped hanging to them and look more for his actions. Actions are something you can assess, words are just words... and stay words if actions are not taken to support them.

Don't expect anything from his parents, they will side with him.

I agree with you forgiveness must be earned, because somehow they need to reflect on their actions and how it impacted others.

Forgiveness is a process, we shouldn't rush through it but at the same time it's something we need to go through at some point to put aside those "hurtful feelings" and find peace into our heart. Forgiveness doesn't mean we forget, it means we integrate that event into our life but it doesn't define/impact our life in a certain manner anymore. I hope I am expressing well what I want to say.

One day at a time! You are already stronger but you didn't realize it yet, believe in yourself, it takes time to make decisions or change, so be patient with yourself, be kind to yourself, love yourself.

[skm0619]

Thank you all for the responses, it means so much to me to have all of this support. I have re-read all of your thoughts several times and each time I get something new out of them.

SBJ....I love reading the bible verses you post. I myself don't have a strong faith, but have always believed in God and a higher power.

I am trying to understand that he is struggling and that he is having a hard time with all of this too, but when you find out he is loving life laying on a beach with no care in the world it makes it really hard. Through all of this I am learning to be a more patient and understanding person. I hope that as time carries on that will continue.

I am not ready to forgive him yet. I need to see that there is some remorse or regret from him and I have not seen it. I know that others feel that the forgiveness is more for us then for them, but honestly I don't feel that way right now. Maybe one day I will have the courage, as you do, to forgive him, but right now it just isn't in me.

FightOn.....I know he is having a hard time but he isn't showing it cause that would take too much effort and be too painful. I have no doubt it will catch up to him. People can not pretend forever, and can only convince themselves that the way they are choosing to live with lies and deception can only last for so long.

Feel free to 'high jack" anytime

GORDIE......I'm sorry you are having to deal with all of this too. Skyhigh has been such a help for me with her words of wisdom.

SKYHIGH.....as always you make me feel that I am not going crazy or losing my mind and for that I will forever be thankful.

I really try not to blame myself but DANG IT it's difficult. I really like what you said about him making himself into the victim when it reality he is the villain. That really struck a cord and made so much sense to me!!!

Today I received a text from him that said

"Hi, sorry I didn't get back to you and for not responding like I should have. I am out of town right now but will be back this weekend. Honestly, I do still want you to communicate about the dogs. I understand my actions don't show that to you. I am sorry for the frustration." WTF!!!! I read that and started having palpitations and chest pain. Something about that just set me off!!! I waited all day to respond and decided to send this:

"Your words really don't have much merit with me anymore. There is always an excuse or reason why you don't answer, and I'm tired of the excuses. As I have always said actions speak louder then words and your silence speaks volumes to me. Hope you are enjoying your time away at the beach."

This is not the type of text he would normally send to me. I wonder if he is having someone else write it for him. He is not that good with the words....if you know what I mean. I just had to throw it in there that I knew he was at the beach even though he only said he was "out of town" I bet he SH*T on himself when he read that. Shocking there has been no response. This type of behavior is what I need from him because then it makes it so much easier to detach!!!

ONE DAY AT A TIME.....

[job]

MLCers are the opposite of who they were pre-crisis, i.e., mirror image. If your h wasn't all that great in writing things, then he just very well might be much better in MLC. For example, my former h was very much like yours when it came to writing and/or words, but once MLC hit, his writing became much better. Did the ow write his stuff for him? I seriously doubt it because the few times that I have spoken to him, he even spoke much better and could express himself better w/words.

You have to find a way to look at your h as a different person. Sure, it's the same body, but the mentality is a whole other can of worms. He's going to say and do things that are out of character, dress differently and his interests will be different, as well as friends, etc. Again, the mirror image. Keep those expectations down very low or even zero right now.

[SBJ]

SBJ....I love reading the bible verses you post. I myself don't have a strong faith, but have always believed in God and a higher power.

I am trying to understand that he is struggling and that he is having a hard time with all of this too, but when you find out he is loving life laying on a beach with no care in the world it makes it really hard. Through all of this I am learning to be a more patient and understanding person. I hope that as time carries on that will continue.

I am not ready to forgive him yet. I need to see that there is some remorse or regret from him and I have not seen it. I know that others feel that the forgiveness is more for us then for them, but honestly I don't feel that way right now. Maybe one day I will have the courage, as you do, to forgive him, but right now it just isn't in me.

skm...I have heard it said that sometimes people really don't gain their strongest faith until they are under the toughest of trials. I thought I have always had a strong faith, but realize now that I had always just been going thru the motions. I even let my W be the spiritual leader of our family. I really began going to church once we began dating and didn't convert until my oldest was about to do his first communion. I assumed that since she had been a cradle Catholic that she had a much better knowledge of things than I did. As it turns out...we were both ignorant of the truth.

Now she seems to have this wonderful outward appearance for all of our friends and family to see. She thinks that everything that the bible says is wonderful...except that whole thing where God says...
Malachi 2:16New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)

16 For I hate divorce,
says the Lord, the God of Israel,
And the one who covers his garment with violence,
says the Lord of hosts.
You should be on guard, then, for your life,
and you must not break faith.

I have come to feel personally...that you are either all in or all out with faith. You should not pick and choose what you should or should not believe.

I read today in the Gospel of Mark that Jesus was teaching and was amazed at the great lack of faith of all that were listening. Because of this lack of faith he was unable to perform any great deeds there. I try to apply this to my sitch...I have to have faith that things will be OK. Stay strong and take things one day at a time.

You have to find a way to look at your h as a different person. Sure, it's the same body, but the mentality is a whole other can of worms.

job...I know in my case I have seen her physically shift a few times. At times she looks like the same beautiful woman and at others I don't recognize her at all. Meaning I am either attracted or not attracted to her at those times. Do you think it is that the detachment is taking place, or is it the crazy that is changing my perspective, or both. She also goes thru cycles, although short, where she wants to talk and then long times when it is just nothing.

[skm0619]

JOB.....thank you for the response. I guess I never even thought that he would be a different man in other aspects, especially not with vocabulary or how he writes or responds in a text message.

I am trying to keep my expectations at zero with him. When I do get a response I am always shocked. I send texts expecting nothing. Of course I hope he will, but don't expect it.

When I re-read his response and then read what I wrote I thought to myself.....did I do the wrong thing responding the way I did? Was he trying to reach out to me and I blew it by saying what I did back to him?

I am trying not to let my anger get the best of me, but I know that in the past I have responded in a negative way and said mean things to him because it made ME feel better. Of course I have come to learn that is NOT the right way to handle things.

I told myself it's a new month and I am ready to be a new me. I am going to stop letting his actions or lack there of have power over me and how I respond. The one thing I don't know what to do is if he contacts me again...do I respond or do I just have NC at all? If he does contact me after that last text I will be very surprised.

SBJ....I totally agree with you in regard to faith, that you are either in or out. Don't pick and choose when its convenient for you to ask God for help. I think sometimes we all are guilty of saying "God if you help me this one time" at least I know I am. Having faith and living your life by that faith takes a strong person. I know that I don't have that kind of faith. Maybe one day I will.

As hard as it is for me not to see my H, I can only imagine that each time you see your W it has to be difficult. I know for me, I still love my H but don't like him. I know that when I have seen him in the past I didn't have those feelings like I used to and that made me sad.

Remember they are telling themselves things to make them feel better and to justify why they are continuing to do the things they are doing. We can not change or in my case control any of that, and for me that is something I am REALLY trying to let go of.

Hang in there my friend

ONE DAY AT A TIME ......

[SBJ]

Having faith and living your life by that faith takes a strong person. I know that I don't have that kind of faith. Maybe one day I will.

Maybe asking for the strength is your first step in building your faith...

Philippians 4:13

13 I have the strength for everything through him who empowers me.

I have heard he works in his time and not ours. We want everything done quickly. That is why my W has moved out and filed within the same week and is now pushing for everything to be over. I have prayed and prayed for intervention and it has not come yet. What has happened is that my faith is getting stronger and stronger.

As hard as it is for me not to see my H, I can only imagine that each time you see your W it has to be difficult. I know for me, I still love my H but don't like him. I know that when I have seen him in the past I didn't have those feelings like I used to and that made me sad.

It kills me at times as well...sometimes she looks just as beautiful as the day I met her and others she is a totally different person...almost unrecognizable. But, I know that the one I love is in there somewhere...not sure where, but I think she is hiding somewhere. It saddens me too that they are lost at the moment, but as it has been said many times on here...this is their journey to take. Either we are just casualties or God has a meaning for putting us thru this as well. Just something to ponder.

Remember they are telling themselves things to make them feel better and to justify why they are continuing to do the things they are doing. We can not change or in my case control any of that, and for me that is something I am REALLY trying to let go of.

I had someone mention to me that my W has never looked happier. At first I felt kind of bad, but then they said...it must be some kind of act. I think at times of her waking up and saying..."the show must go on"...like she is in some Broadway performance. Or she says the tagline we use..."fake it 'til you make it". Either way...it is their show and you're right in that there is nothing we can do, or say to make a difference. They have to come out of the other side before they either come to their senses or come back to us.

[BluWave]

"Your words really don't have much merit with me anymore. There is always an excuse or reason why you don't answer, and I'm tired of the excuses. As I have always said actions speak louder then words and your silence speaks volumes to me. Hope you are enjoying your time away at the beach."

Can you help me understand what your goal was here? I am confused. DB is about validating, keeping communication open, and being a "lighthouse" so to speak (in that you are safe and approachable). Your text does the opposite of that. You are basically telling him his words are meaningless and for him not to waste his time talking to you. The you tell him to have a good time at the beach, which after the first lines, reads like complete sarcasm! Did you honestly expect him to respond? I don't know if he "sh1t himself" that you know where he was, but I do imagine you just reinforced to him WHY he left. Sorry for the 2*4, but I don't think you should expect him to come around when you respond that way. Personally, I wouldn't.

Blu

[skm0619]

Blu.....I've been waiting for your response.

My goal for sending that text was to let him know that I am tired of his excuses. Now, I'm sure I could have responded in a different way....no question. But, this man takes DAYS to respond to a text, if he does at all. His choice to do that is deliberate, blatant and purposeful. And, when he does there is always an excuse for why he didn't do something, and usually it is a lie. He says he will do something and doesn't...so his words are meaningless.

I get that I am supposed to validate and be a light house, but how do I let him know how I feel when he doesn't respond? I don't speak about anything but our dogs with him. And I make sure the texts are short and I try not to show any emotion.

I understand you felt like you needed to give me a 2x4, and I probably did need it, but I will say that when you responded with "I do imagine you just reinforced to him WHY he left" was a bit hurtful....(not going to lie).

[peacetoday]

HI

Validating the Mlcer does promote a more peaceful relationship

I have found that in my situation
Validating my xh made an easier transition for everyone, especially him and my kids

Think about it -in any R, if we validate and treat person with respect and kindness -any r will work and become peaceful,,the other person doesn't have to fight us they are always right

Will it bring MLCer back..maybe -sometimes -but just as often .if not more the Mlcer will continue on their journey
The way you handle him is up to you- Some go dark with No contact
Do what works for you, and if it helps bring him closer, try that strategy more

I spent a good part of the first 18 months validating XH , and while it did create a nice friendship at that time, it all faded and and he still filed and M OW