Help - Setting Boundaries, WW in EA - Thread #2

[Woke_Up]

Woke_Up,

You have GOT to detach. What do you know about this process?

-PM

PatientMan

I know a bit about the theory. I have read the DR book, and understand that it is going into Observer mode. Not cold, or distant, as V pointed out to me, stay close, but taking a third person view of the interactions, leaving the emotions out of it.

Putting into practice is sometimes difficult. I have been extremely un-detached last night and this morning. WW has been showing affection and I have been responding. I can't help thinking it's temperature checking, as Sandi puts it. Thinking a bit more clearly now.

[Surfer]

Woke_Up,

I am partly pleased and partly sad to tell you that this book will change you. It is Pandora's Box. When (if - it's a choice) you read and underline those bits that resonate. Flick through the pages and see how many you have identified with.

You will probably feel a 'fool' for being misled. But love did this. You ignored the sign posts. As did I. However, remember that it will strengthen you. It will make you SuperDad. You will have skills that can help you D and SS with. And you must help him too - I am sure it's different.

Also remember she is not bad. She is mixed up. You didn't do this to her. You only tried to love her. Yes, of course, you made mistakes. But would they be so abnormal for any W to take this route? No.

Read and ask questions if you need to. I will help you where I am able. I am not expert, at all, but I know what I know through what you are doing. Like I say, months if not years ahead. I will help you to help all of you. You W included.

Keep on keeping on.

Surfer.

[sandi2]

You asked about the WW threads, when you go to the last page of first thread, it will give you link to next one. There are several in all.

[Woke_Up]

Thanks Sandi

I am working my way through. It is clear that there is zero respect, quite a bit of resentment and rebellion.

I need to reset myself and start again. Yesterday I was pure cake feeding.

[PatientMan]

Woke_Up,

You have GOT to detach. What do you know about this process?

-PM

PatientMan

I know a bit about the theory. I have read the DR book, and understand that it is going into Observer mode. Not cold, or distant, as V pointed out to me, stay close, but taking a third person view of the interactions, leaving the emotions out of it.

Putting into practice is sometimes difficult. I have been extremely un-detached last night and this morning. WW has been showing affection and I have been responding. I can't help thinking it's temperature checking, as Sandi puts it. Thinking a bit more clearly now.

I don't want to muddy up the waters of advice you are receiving, but I can get you started on an action plan if you like.

-PM

[SH_]

Woke_up, I would hope that you take PM up on his offer...
Action is the key to progress and success...
You can read, study and talk about it until the cows come home, but you would still be in the same place...until you take action.

I'm pulling for you

[Woke_Up]

Okay. Fired early and hadn't read everything.

Don't fret about the MBR row. Your D will remember of course. You must STOP all arguing in front of the kids. They learn how to interact from this.

Agreed. Will prioritise this.

Here is my prediction, your sitch follows mine so closely. Your W will eventually leave your house and take your kids (Me), possible vs she may get a shock and stay (see Sandi).

I can't see her leaving the house. She will fight to make me leave. I have however, given myself the headspace to realise that if I do leave (not planning on it, just IF), then I would take myself off all of the bills, and she would need to pick those up. The mortgage would be trickier. But it does mean that the finances wouldn't be so tight as I had feared, and she would get a wake up call on how much things actually cost, including the running of her car.

I do believe your W is abusive. Have you read the book on abuse yet? It may be physical, it may be FOO - frankly who gives a sh!t. It is what it is. My W's is FOO and potentially physical IMHO.

I agree. I haven't read it yet, but will start on Tuesday.

Fact is women who do this do it gradually but escalating quickly from the point they think they have your b@lls and you will never leave. It happens to good guys. I know you are a good guy also you are NOT a pu$$y. You are a good guy. Its her problem. Basically, it is very, very unlikely she will ever change. Sorry - read the book....

Right now, separate all finances. Hand her over to the OM and walk the fcuk away is my view - in your mind. You could actually do it, but like you, I couldn't because my kids were scared. Now, looking back at the point you are in, the thing that damages most is the arguing in front of the kids. If it is not possible to stop them hear M start to shout then exit, you must NEVER react (let them remember only her). Got to bed earlier etc. In time if they talk, they will talk about M's shouting. Don't let them remember yours. If it does not happen ever again, they can't remember it.

Separating the finances will be difficult. Walking away is difficult. I'll start a new post in a minute to explain what just happened and get some feedback.

W will try and goad you into physical abuse. You must not EVER take this bait. I have had this. The good thing about good guys is we don't hit women. The Verbally Abusive Woman preys on this security. It's win, win. She will escalate until the point she hits you or she goads you to do the same. My W got Physical then left. I never did. I couldn't.

Yes, I know.

You must walk at first sight of her picking a fight. Go to bed at 9pm, go for a run, a drive etc.

Did this earlier. came in, made what I thought was an innocuous comment about her being asleep on the sofa, she went off on how she had done everything around the house (she had cleaned up, picked up SS from work etc. while I had taken D out to cinema with her friends). Called me Victor Meldrew and an idiot. I simply said I wasn't going to spoken to like that, and would have a conversation of she wasn't insulting me. She responded that I never spoke to her and should make an effort. I said I would make efforts once she stopped A. She went off a bit more, I went out to put fuel in car.

Another warning, my W used to encourage me to drink (not bottles of whiskey but get a few in with friends). She did this so my guard was not rock solid. I would do what you did, I engaged. I learned quickly.

There are some dark days ahead mate. Sorry, but be prepared. Your armour is STFU. That's it.

She's currently telling me that I am detached, like a psychopath I am trying not to engage her.

Problem is, my W found an account in her name (rest tied down), with a lot of money in it (an ISA I set up for her, again tax efficient), she took that and ran. Okay not ideal, but I can handle that. See the abuse 'for the kids' stopped. For me it goes on. But with the book on abuse and other learning, I have more skills that Pele on acid!!! I am slowly going to close down the manipulation. V is amazing at this!!! She has has a much crazier WS than me and is a total genius on this. I am very much still learning. But she has helped me so much (V - if you are reading this - thank you so much!).

You must learn to control all reactions. Mindfulness apps are great for this right now for you. Try Headspace and Calm there are others. They cost nothing.

I will look for them.

Listen brother. I am steps ahead but have had a very similar journey (they are never the same). Know this, its all about how you conduct you for you and the kids. I will paste a recent message on my post for you to read. To give you hope.

Keep it tight. YOU - do it for your D and SS (he has seen this all his life I bet! - poor lad). You owe it to him too.

I know. He is my son now. I have to be a better man for us all to come out of this in the best possible shape.

Final point. You DID NOT CAUSE THIS!!! You really, really did not. I can not express this strongly enough. Also, you will NEVER cure her. Only she can. She probably won't IMHO. The reason I believe this is that you clearly apologise for your own outbursts. Does she???

She tried to tell me I was responsible for her 'friendship' starting as she calls it.

Going to need to start doing that. Thanks again mate. Just about to post an update.

[Woke_Up]

Update:

OK, I was about to post some suggestions here - including that I actually did move out to the study, as that would make it clear that we a separated and it wouldn't be hidden from view any more. It would have to be owned.

Also, yesterday, there was a lot of cake feeding, and she was affectionate, we actually ML in the morning and the evening. However, in my head it felt like I was saying goodbye.

Today:

Took SS to work at 9am, took D out to movies with her friends and 1 of the dads. Got back to find W seemingly asleep on sofa. D woke her up, and when I was saying something I said you were asleep. She denied it, then said how she had cleaned everything, taken dog out, picked up S from work. I was an Idiot, and Victor Meldrew (typical grumpy old man from British sit-com)

I said I wouldn't be called names, and if she wanted to talk we could do it without insults, but I wouldn't talk otherwise. She said I never talked anyway. I said I would work on it, but couldn't while she was in A. I'm not sure if I should be saying things like this. Anyway, I went out and put fuel in the car to prevent it escalating.

WW just came down and said she was going to move out of MBR, was ordering a new bed with an orthopedic mattress , so now had no money left (I paid her wages into her account yesterday, so now no money for food for January unless I find more funds, which she knows I will have to).

Basically said I had treated her like a PoS for the last 6 years, said I was trying to dictate and control, and that she wasn't going to put up with me treating her like cr@p and telling her that she had to stop A before I would work on anything.

She said she wouldn't sleep next to a (insert c-bomb here) and that she would be the bigger man and move room. She says she is switching bathrooms - the ensuite will now be the boys (it was previously the girls) and the boys would have to use the ensuite, as she wouldn't mop up pee after us and it was disgusting.

So she says she is giving up 'her room' and 'her bathroom'. She couldn't stay in there with me as it would end up in a violent confrontation and she would need to put locks on and that was no way to live.

I tried to remain detached and not engage, give validation where I could, but it is difficult.

She was accusing me of trying to dictate things and control everything.

She also made comment about the study becoming my bedroom - as in that wouldn't be best if we decided to sell the house. Then she said it may not suit her sell the house, it may not be best for her and her children, if we separate. I said currently we would have to live in the same house as it was not financially viable to have separate houses.

She said there would need to be rules in the house - I said we could agree ground rules. basically she said she was free to do what she wanted and to be in contact with whoever she wants. I said I know. I told her I love her, but I am letting her go. I can't control her and don't want to control her.

Then she said I always acted like I was doing her a favour if I did something with D. I apologised if it seemed that way. She said there I went again, being detached, not owning the action or acknowledging that was what I did. I repeated I was sorry and never meant to act as if I was doing her a favour.

Anyway, it ended with her saying that we could move the new double bed she bought a few weeks ago, but which now isn't good enough, into the shed, and move some other furniture around.

Anyway, that is where we are today.

Thoughts anyone? Go along with this? She is still trying to dictate around things like bathrooms. (The power shower is in the bathroom she will now take over, the bath/hand shower is in the ensuite. An annoyance but easily liveable with.

Still haven't seen L, will get a chance once we are into the new year.

There was a lot of projection, history re-writing, blame shifting - all the stuff you have warned me about, on display. She is still trying to call the shots.

Any ideas on finances? I can easily set up a new company, so I don't pay her wages or dividends, but then how do I go about providing her with some financial control - otherwise she would have nothing.

All bills come out of my account. We don't have joint accounts, fortunately. Mortgage is in joint names, and I think 1 utility bill and 1 bank loan. All others in my name.

Just after a sounding board at the moment. Thanks, fellow DB'ers.

[Woke_Up]

Oh, another thing - she says my detached comments/validation sound patronising, and she recognises that I am detached, 'the way a Pyschopath detaches'

Any self help out there on validation that I can use. I think I need a particularly British version, sometimes American phraseology doesn't translate. We tend to be much more cynical across the pond, I fear.

[Woke_Up]

I don't want to muddy up the waters of advice you are receiving, but I can get you started on an action plan if you like.

-PM

PatientMan - That would be very much appreciated, thanks - I will take any help I can at this stage. This seems to be the key thing to learn, with traditional DB'ing, with Tough Love as per Sandi, with everything.

And I am nowhere near getting it yet.