Help - Setting Boundaries, WW in EA - Thread #2

[Woke_Up]

Old Thread:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2719993#Post2719993

[sandi2]

Since you are back in the MBR, my suggestion is to stay there. If anyone moves out again, it should be her. Don't get into a knockdown drag out trying to force her out. In fact, I would not mention it for now. I think you need to get more grounded about what to do, before lunging into something else.

I've been meaning to ask.......... if you work all day, and she stays home with one four-year old child, why are you the parent to tend to the child during the evenings and throughout the night? I know what was posted, but what is the true reason that she gets to go off alone, and hang the closed sign out on her door? I mean really, this is one child who will probably enroll in kindergarten next year.........and your W just turns everything over to you as soon as you get home? Just think about it.

While you think about it, there may be several things that come to mind in how you try to be accomadating, to prevent a rucus. If I had to guess, I would say you fall into the category of H's who will do most anything to keep peace with the W, especially if she rules by her mood swings. The older I get, the more important it is to have peace in my life. People can compromise a lot to have peace. After working all day at the job, you don't want to go home and deal with anything that threatens a peaceful evening. I get it. My concern in what I am seeing in young families today, is H's being bullied and threatened by the moods of the W. He doesn't want to do something that might set her off. It is no different than the schoolyard bully. The H will do most anything to avoid conflict with the bully. Problem is, the bully knows it, and things get worse.

Well I strayed away from what I originally wanted to post. Just threw all that additional in free of charge.

If you're still reading along, I want to encourage you to take no big leaps without discussing it with the board first. B/c people do it before they know what they are really doing.......and then they have a bigger problem to face.

I hope you will read all my threads on wayward wives. Also, I believe Vanilla has some threads about abuse, as well as Surfer. I think you need to read these threads with an open mind to the possibilities it could be your current situation.

Previously, you asked me about who should initiate sex. Well, if you read the WW threads, you will probably see my opinion about it. Not everyone agrees about having sex or not. I am wondering if you may get confused about some of these issues b/c you are trying to be a better H........or rather, what you think a better H would do. I suggest this is not the time period for overtly demonstrating your ideas of a better a H. Your idea about a better H......and what she really needs......could be completely opposite. Some WW's don't even give truthful explanations about what they really want in their H.

Your love may not be phased by your W's behavior. That is fine. I am not saying to stop loving her. I am saying that what you demonstrate going forward in this, may look differently than what you have previously shown her (the catering, accommodation, availability, etc.) However, your love is still there. You will be able to return to the outward show of affection, as soon as she stops being abusive and wayward. In the meantime, you should observe her interactions with you, and determine if you detect a lack of respect. Everything is based on either having your W's respect, or having the lack of respect. As a wife, she will not desire you without feeling respect for you. Even if she has sex, it doesn't mean it's you she is desiring. . The proof is in her actions/behavior toward her H.

What is desperately needed is for you to be a man who has confidence, and who is not afraid to stand up to his bullying, wayward wife. A man who refuses to take her abuse, or to continue enabling her bad behavior. A man who knows what he will not tolerate, and is not afraid to set boundaries against the intolerable. A man who commands respect from those who live under his roof. A man who will not rescue his abusive wife when she faces consequences of her own doing. Well, I could go on & on, but I hope you get the picture. If executed properly, you will become the H she needs.....and wants (although she probably won't tell you until she stops being abusive and wayward).

Your W will not get the message through your words. She receives the message through your actions.

[Vanilla]

Yup

Stay in the MBR. If WW tries any tricks then say "I am recording this conversation, would you repeat that".

False accusations are criminal offences.


V

[Woke_Up]

Thanks Sandi and Vanilla.

That helps - I was getting confused about the goal of getting back in the MBR then being too accommodating.

Today has been a bad day on that front - I have been way too accommodating. OK, I did refuse to buy her some things when we took our D out to the city to spend her Christmas money, but she then asked me to go back in with her bank card and buy them while she waited with D outside.

I know that I am not helping the situation, in fact I am facilitating by continuing this weak stance. Your words about getting grounded strike a chord. I don't feel grounded at the moment.

I'll give a full response in the morning, I need to sleep and get my head straight for now.

[Woke_Up]

oooh, today's a doozy.

WW spoiling for a fight all day, (well, since last night) and got her way just now. Pushed my buttons.

Asked me if I was a psychopath (she's been listening to stuff on Psychos on Youtube again), asked me how I knew, so I said I felt genuine emotions, and she said she had never seen any. I SHOULD know better. I knew even as it was happening.

I lit up, grabbed her phone, proved she was contacting OM, threw her phone out of the room into the hallway (soft landing, carpeted), went into her lack of respect, etc. Let her know I had seen messages she had been sending (my bad), said it wasn't on that she was talking about SS16 issues with OM, etc etc.

I apologised for losing control. Said I would discuss anything with her calmly. Said I wanted to fix our R but can't work on it will she is engaged in EA. That until she realised that this (our R and family) was worth more than the EA, that we couldn't work on all the past issues (she was trying to drag them up). That I knew she was trying to manipulate me.

Anyway, she actually smiled as I was showing her the phone, like she was laughing my my face. She claims she was laughing at my behaviour. I was furious after that.

Then she started telling me I triggered her anxiety. I responded that her affair triggers her anxiety.

Anyway, have calmed down. She's trying to manipulate me into making her a cup of tea, so I said she can't treat me like her b!tch while she is abusing and disrespecting me like this. Then she tried to guilt me because she had made supper.

I'm really annoyed at myself. DB'ing went out of the window, sometimes I'm like an observer of my own outbursts but just as a passenger, unable to intervene until it's too late.

Have said to WW that I allowed her to push my buttons, that that was what she set out to do, and that I shouldn't have allowed it, I'm my own worst enemy. Even managed a wry laugh about it.

Let's see what this evening brings. Fun & games.

[doodler]

Asked me if I was a psychopath (she's been listening to stuff on Psychos on Youtube again), asked me how I knew, so I said I felt genuine emotions, and she said she had never seen any. I SHOULD know better. I knew even as it was happening.

Woke_Up,

My W (now xW) claimed that I was a psychopath and a narcissist. When we talked to the MC, the MC assured my W that I'm not a psychopath or a narcissist. It didn't matter; according to my wife, because I'm a psychopath, I somehow was able to bend the MC to my will and make her believe I was just a normal guy. You just have to embrace psychopathy and run with it.

Like Austin Powers said to Dr. Evil while they were ascending a ladder, "I thought you were crazy, but now I see your nuts."

[Woke_Up]

It's all gone wrong again. Massive bust up (because I wouldn't plug her phone in to charge), said she didn't see why I wouldn't apply my rules to sleeping arrangements. I said I would, she could move to spare room, I wouldn't move out.

WW started getting abusive and threatening. I said I would have to record on my phone if she did. I started recording, and when I reminded her of this (she called me a rapist again) she went nuts.

All in front of D4, who was in tears. I feel awful for letting it get to this.

Now she is saying I will need to use violence to get in MBR. Initially she was saying I would have to give her money for a bed, I said I would pay her wages and dividends. She wanted extra money.

She got SS16 involved to move bed, then decided that she didn't want out, and that if I left the room, she will keep me out by force. I will have to 'physically assault her' or 'beat her up' to get in.

Talk about 'well that escalated quickly'.

She hates her privacy being invaded... as much as I hate my MR being betrayed I guess.

So what now????

[Woke_Up]

Just thinking - there has always been no negotiating with WW. Even in early arguments, her going in point was well if you don't like it, you can leave...

I guess the writing was on the wall.

She also started bringing D and custody into it, saying she would have D - which is true. She would get the house (maybe, not sure as we're not married. It is in joint names). I would still have to pay for everything.

It doesn't really matter, I will never deprive the kids, I just hate being threatened with it.

[Jug]

Talk to a lawyer ASAP. Sorry things are so bad.

[Woke_Up]

Since you are back in the MBR, my suggestion is to stay there. If anyone moves out again, it should be her. Don't get into a knockdown drag out trying to force her out. In fact, I would not mention it for now.

Ah yes... about that.

Didn't mean to get into it at all, all blew up out of a little thing about me not plugging her phone in, escalated into me not being her b!tch while she was continuing EA, to why not carry it across into sleeping arrangements - to which I replied fine. She was welcome to sleep elsewhere. Then all of the stuff about her bad pelvis and back from having MY child, etc etc (see other reply below). Threats, followed by my recording, followed by BOOM!

I think you need to get more grounded about what to do, before lunging into something else.

Failed.

I've been meaning to ask.......... if you work all day, and she stays home with one four-year old child, why are you the parent to tend to the child during the evenings and throughout the night? I know what was posted, but what is the true reason that she gets to go off alone, and hang the closed sign out on her door? I mean really, this is one child who will probably enroll in kindergarten next year.........and your W just turns everything over to you as soon as you get home? Just think about it.

D has already started kindergarten since September, plus she went to nursery school 2 or 3 times a week prior to that. D is at school from 8:55AM to 3:30PM. W does housework, cooks, cleans, shops, has online conversations with OM. Yet she is hard done by when she talks about it, slaving for the rest of us. My life is easy as I have a desk job and sit on a train for 5 hours a day. Look, I'm not knocking what she does or what she has done in looking after the home and bringing up the kids, but I do think she has lost a lot of perspective from when she was a single parent living in rented accommodation with barely enough to pay the bills.

While you think about it, there may be several things that come to mind in how you try to be accomadating, to prevent a rucus. If I had to guess, I would say you fall into the category of H's who will do most anything to keep peace with the W, especially if she rules by her mood swings.

She does

The older I get, the more important it is to have peace in my life. People can compromise a lot to have peace. After working all day at the job, you don't want to go home and deal with anything that threatens a peaceful evening. I get it. My concern in what I am seeing in young families today, is H's being bullied and threatened by the moods of the W. He doesn't want to do something that might set her off. It is no different than the schoolyard bully. The H will do most anything to avoid conflict with the bully. Problem is, the bully knows it, and things get worse.

That strikes true enough. I have let myself be railroaded & dominated in this R. It hasn't been taht way in other R's, I guess it was just force of personality from someone who relishes conflict and someone who is conflict averse.

Well I strayed away from what I originally wanted to post. Just threw all that additional in free of charge.

It's appreciated.

If you're still reading along, I want to encourage you to take no big leaps without discussing it with the board first. B/c people do it before they know what they are really doing.......and then they have a bigger problem to face.

Could I borrow your crystal ball please? You evidently have one. But hopefully you get an idea of how quickly minor things (not plugging in he phone) escalate (different rooms, threats, R is over). She is using everything in the book against me, knows I can't use any sort of physical force.

I don't know how the land lies. She is upstairs 'calmer'? She smoked a joint (she's taken to doing that again recently before bed, she occasionally gets a bit compulsive about things. Doesn't bother me, TBH. She says her anxiety is bad now. (I'm assuming that will be my fault in her mind).

I hope you will read all my threads on wayward wives. Also, I believe Vanilla has some threads about abuse, as well as Surfer. I think you need to read these threads with an open mind to the possibilities it could be your current situation.

I'm assuming those are the ones titled info for LBH's with WW? I have started reading them, and was going over them again tonight. I will have to do some digging on Vanilla and Surfer's older posts.

Previously, you asked me about who should initiate sex. Well, if you read the WW threads, you will probably see my opinion about it. Not everyone agrees about having sex or not. I am wondering if you may get confused about some of these issues b/c you are trying to be a better H........or rather, what you think a better H would do. I suggest this is not the time period for overtly demonstrating your ideas of a better a H. Your idea about a better H......and what she really needs......could be completely opposite. Some WW's don't even give truthful explanations about what they really want in their H.

Well, it's off the table for now. I declined last time she asked. Then later that night she came up late to bed, was affectionate for a while. Got into a discussion, where I said I couldn't while she was carrying on. She said she was going to end it soon, but couldn't do it at Christmas! Then she said I was wasting time, she was running out of time (getting older) to have another child. I questioned if she wanted to have another one with me, she said yes. Anyway, later she asked me to rub her back and stuff, which I did, then she asked if I was going to use her??? hen I asked why she would say that, she said I seemed very cold. I tried to tell her that it was because of the current situation, and I hadn't planned on ML. Next morning, she was late getting up, so didn't want to take D to park with me to meet her sister and kids. Sister then cancelled it - WW blamed me for keeping her up late (I had gone to bed at 10:30, she had come up after midnight and kept us talking for another hour +).

It was pretty similar last night. I had to go and pick up SS16, got him home, read him riot act for not getting his arrangements sorted in advance. Went up to bed. Then W wanted bedroom to herself for a bit of solo time, if you know what I mean. When I came up afterwards, she then started going on about orgasms, how she was hard done by as she had to share a bed, started accusing me of never flirting with her, various other things, then said it was just that she could never forgive me for the large disagreements we were having earlier in the year (it's hard to describe on this forum, and not sure I'd want to get into it, but it was something she took very seriously, relating to the political situation/mass immigration/demographics over in the UK, especially following the Cologne sex attacks by migrants) - it was Cologne that initially triggered her anxiety, combined with me being in London and various terror attacks happening in UK & Europe.

Your love may not be phased by your W's behavior.

It's surviving. I wouldn't say un-phased.

That is fine. I am not saying to stop loving her. I am saying that what you demonstrate going forward in this, may look differently than what you have previously shown her (the catering, accommodation, availability, etc.) However, your love is still there. You will be able to return to the outward show of affection, as soon as she stops being abusive and wayward. In the meantime, you should observe her interactions with you, and determine if you detect a lack of respect. Everything is based on either having your W's respect, or having the lack of respect. As a wife, she will not desire you without feeling respect for you. Even if she has sex, it doesn't mean it's you she is desiring. . The proof is in her actions/behavior toward her H.

Oh, there is a definite lack of respect.

What is desperately needed is for you to be a man who has confidence, and who is not afraid to stand up to his bullying, wayward wife. A man who refuses to take her abuse, or to continue enabling her bad behavior. A man who knows what he will not tolerate, and is not afraid to set boundaries against the intolerable. A man who commands respect from those who live under his roof. A man who will not rescue his abusive wife when she faces consequences of her own doing. Well, I could go on & on, but I hope you get the picture. If executed properly, you will become the H she needs.....and wants (although she probably won't tell you until she stops being abusive and wayward).

I hope so. I just think that it is likely to have to go to very strong actions to her forceful ways. She would try and force me out of the house before admitting she was wrong. She won't even accept sleeping in a slightly less comfortable bed, due to her back and pelvis problems - my fault, MY child. Or hers when it suits her. I nearly said she could have the bed in the other room, and for a moment she was going for it, then I changed my mind, then she said she would get SS16 to help her move the bed (well, she was actually going to take D's room and move D into what was the spare room), then she changed her mind again and said she would not give up HER rom and would force me out by any means necessary, and once out I would not get back in without using force or violence against her.

Your W will not get the message through your words. She receives the message through your actions.

Yes. I hope you get the general idea of what I am up against. She will fight dirty and immediately go nuclear option. No gradual build up.

I am tempted just to move her stuff into anther room one day. She can have the damn bed if she wants, although it is a bit large for any other room in the house. I'm going to make an appt to see a L - I had foolishly put it off being so close to Christmas. At the minute she seems to think her options are sitting pretty. She will get the house if we split, I will still pay for everything, etc. I need to get a clear understanding of what the truth actually is in this situation. I don't think it is as clear cut as she would kid herself.

[/quote]