She moved out...now the work begins...Part 4

[SBJ]

Previous Thread:

She moved out...now the work begins Part 3


Thanks for the encouragement job...why do I feel like the WH being nervous to go. Is that normal of the LBS?

Merry Christmas!!!

[job]

Yes, it's very normal to feel nervous. Why? Because our spouses act and say things that aren't "normal" to us. They are different in many ways from the people we knew...so, it's like meeting someone knew for the first time. You don't know what to expect from them.

I wouldn't worry too much about it...go and have fun. Enjoy the time you are there and like I said, if it gets to you, politely excuse yourself and go home or to a coffee shop for a bit. Nothing says you have to stay for a long period of time.

[hawker]

How did the party go?

[bttrfly]

hey there SBJ just popping in to say Merry Christmas and wishing you peace and serenity this season and into the new year. xoxoxoxo {{{{{hugs}}}}}

[SBJ]

I prayed on the way over there that there would be peace in the air. She texted me right after I prayed that I needed to hurry because my niece/God Daughter was getting anxious to open gifts...so I sped up. We did gifts and then dinner with a lot of casual conversation.

My BIL & SIL thanked me for coming as they were dreading it without me. The wine and the whisky flowed, but not too much excess.

I know I am not suppose to have any expectations towards her this soon into our situation, but everything went smoothly and I could tell at times that she was looking over in my direction from across the table. At one point maybe two whisky's in when I caught her looking I winked at her and then looked away. I'm not a player by any means, but I was proud at myself for that. It was all I could do to not grab her and haul her outside for some private time.

Anyway I was home by 10 o'clock strumming on the guitar. Trying to learn. Favorite new tune is "Learned Alot" by Amos Lee...great for us standers I think...either that or it's really depressing. Haha!

[job]

I am so glad that everything went well. I hope you enjoyed yourself! Your wife was checking you out and remembering the past holidays. Sounds like she may have been enjoying herself as well. Maybe she had some clarity and will come to realize what she's missing out on. Time will tell.

I think you did a great job of keeping yourself in check and not grabbing her and taking her outside. The wink is something she'll remember and smile about.

Keep up the good work. You will learn that song...practice makes perfect! Enjoy the holidays!

[SBJ]

So I get a call from the W about two things...1. Her moms Christmas party is tonight and she was making sure I was still coming and 2. Telling me that my two youngest wanted to wake up at my house (i.e. There house) Christmas morning to do Santa, so she was making sure it was ok with me...duh. I assumed since it was her week that I would be going over there Christmas morning. She asked if she could come too...is it too forward to ask her to stay the night? (I think know the answer to that one, so no 2x4's needed....maybe only if she asks).

Anyway, Merry Christmas to all of you awesomely fine people.

[job]

Sounds like she's having some clarity and the holiday season is getting to her. If she asks to spend the night, that's okay...but be sure you use protection. You don't know what she's been up to out there in the wilderness call MLC land.

Merry Christmas. Sounds like your Christmas will be nice and special w/your family there. Keep those expectations at zero and just enjoy yourself for the moment.

[SBJ]

Thanks job...the MIL's party went well. She and the step-FIL were very grateful that I went. Also received warm welcomes from the 2 sets of BIL/SIL's that were there.

The W came by the house afterwards with all of the gifts she had purchased. We decided on a time for the morning and she started to leave. She hugged all three kids and hugged me and kissed cheeks. Seemed labored leaving, but she did. It was all I could do not asking her to stay. She has to want to do it and I am not going to beg.

God's will be done.

She just texted saying she'd see us at 9am...I'm praying that God talks to her tonight.

Merry Christmas!!!

[Last79]

Sounds like you had a good night. I am hoping she hears Him talking to her. I too had a good night at the in laws and like you it took everything in me not to talk about our relationship in the way home or grab her hand on the way home like we had a great night and we have all the blessings in the world and why not make this work.

Merry Christmas!

[SBJ]

Hope your Christmas is a good one...maybe if we are lucky, this will be the last one in this situation.

[Irish M]

Hi Sbj
Merry Christmas to you

[SBJ]

The last two nights were very nice and somewhat back to normal. She hugged me goodbye last night, we gave kisses on the cheek, and seemed like she wanted to stay...I guess she felt the loss. I know I did.

After talking with my oldest, he told me that she had mentioned staying, but he said it might not be a good idea. Maybe that kept her from mentioning it to me.

She came over this morning for gifts, coffee, and breakfast. I asked her to my mothers tonight, but she declined, saying that she knows she'd be unwelcome. I did not push because I know my mother is a grudge holder. I miss her so much it hurts.

It's funny how I s@cked it up the last two nights to go to each of her parents to be with my family, but she can't do the same. I guess she is conflicted.

She is also having drama with regards to her addict older sister...I still feel that she is also a depression trigger, but who am I to say.

[job]

I'm glad things have been going well for you this holiday season. However, I do want to point out that a MLCer "can't s@ck it up" when it comes to meeting face to face w/someone that they know will judge them. They can't deal w/it, so they tend to avoid them. You have to remember that she's not ready to hear and/or face the consequences of her actions yet. In the case of your mother, she may never be able to be around her because she's a grudge holder.

For now, be thankful that she has been around you for a couple of days of dinners/parties. That's more than most of the posters have the opportunity to experience.

Keep your focus on you and your family. Leave her in God's hands for now.

[SBJ]

Job, Hank's for keeping up with me and the positive vibes. You are right and I am trying to take all of the good out of the weekend that I can. I guess taking things one day at a time is the way to go.

I hope you have had a blessed holiday as well.

[bttrfly]

well, you didn't leave, so presumably it's easier to face the in laws than if you are the one who bailed, right? guilt ...

one day at a time is a really good approach.

Merry Christmas! oxoxoxo

[SBJ]

Thanks bttrfly....I guess I have always felt closer to her fam than she has to mine.

Just dropped the two youngest off to her condo and as I was leaving I slipped with I Love You...I meant it, but I have been trying to hold back. Haven't told her in months...she knows, but I didn't want to suffocate. She didn't respond, but...whatever.

May God grant us all peace, strength, and patience in the new year!

[BillyHo]

Hey SBJ,

Glad to hear that the holiday went off ok for you. I hope that some of the signs are pointing in the right direction for you. Sounds like you are doing well.

[SBJ]

So we are in the last week of the worst year of my life so far...well as far as the W is concerned. The million dollar question is do we make one last ditch effort to let them know that we love them and that we want them to come home, or do we cave to their confusion and just let sleeping dogs lie? I wonder if it would even make a difference. I assume that after 25 years together she knows how I feel, but also wonder that due to her mindset at the time, would she even care how I feel.

All she seems to want to do is discuss money...that is the only reason she calls. We still have a joint account that certain bills come out of that we are still sharing.

"I love you and want you home"!!! There I said it...now do I erase that from my thoughts right now, or do I let her know?

[job]

She already knows that you love her and you want her back home. So, I am going to suggest that you not say a word to her about this.

The MLCer, while in crisis, is only worried about money and having fun. They worry about money because they need it in order to have their fun, whatever that may be. She doesn't want to run short so that's why that's the only thing on her mind right now.

Write down that you love her and then tear up the note.

[SBJ]

She already knows that you love her and you want her back home. So, I am going to suggest that you not say a word to her about this.

The MLCer, while in crisis, is only worried about money and having fun. They worry about money because they need it in order to have their fun, whatever that may be. She doesn't want to run short so that's why that's the only thing on her mind right now.

Write down that you love her and then tear up the note.

Again, I know that she knows how I feel...I just feel odd that I haven't talked to her about our R in a long time. It is totally 180 from what I would usually do, so I know how I should lean, but it is hard.

As for what she is doing, from what I can tell nothing has changed in her life other than where she is living and me. I am just going by what my kids have said...I have honestly tried to stay tuned out of what she is doing.

I do miss her and would welcome her back if she'd do the work she needs to do. I will continue to work for myself. I saw something this morning that struck a chord. It said, True love isn't always romantic...It's a choice to love each other for better or worse, richer or poorer, and in sickness or health.

[job]

You may think nothing has changed in her life, but the internal work is being done slowly but surely. They don't have bumps, bruises or broken bones that we can see, but those emotional hurts have to heal from the inside and they are very, very slow to heal.

[SBJ]

I read from someone that for some, they have to completely go thru with the D before anything changes. I have also resigned myself to the fact that this is her D and she should do most of the heavy lifting. My greatest fear is that I have always told myself that I would "never" get a D because of the way my parents D affected me and my brothers...she is forcing this upon me, but also upon my kids. I simply don't want my kids to be damaged by this.

We have no control over what she is feeling or doing. As she has said in some of her spew...I cannot fix her. But as I have always said...I can love her thru all of this even if she doesn't want my love at the moment.

[job]

What you read is true...some have to go through the divorce and when this happens, the LBS is no longer a threat to them, so many of them then can focus on themselves and the healing process.

As you have pointed out, w do not have control over what they feel, say or do. They are the only ones that can fix themselves. All we can do is protect our children as best as we can and continue living our lives (as if they may not return).

Keep the focus on you and your children.

[Huddy]

Bud, totally agree with the money and fun thing - jees, the way she spends it (not bad for a woman who declared herself homeless and is mainly living on benefits) it's as if it's on free flow from the taps.

I se from your BD drop you're quite early in the process. Yep, we've all done the letter/R talks thing, it doesn't work.

Know how you're feeling. Buckle up, long, long way to go!

[CaliGuy]

SBJ

Thanks for the Christmas wish ... and all things considered its not the Christmas any of us want but like all things we keep moving forward the best we can.

Looks like you are going through your emotions and actually coming to grips with them a bit. One of the things that was brought up to me early on was the difference between Cali, and the hurt little boy I had inside. That little boy wanted his wife back and would stop at nothing to get that cookie, cry, scream, pout, Yell "I love you" all in hopes to manipulate just for that cookie. I had to cage that kid ... hardcore..... but the more I grew the more I realized just how unattractive that little boy was and how brutally ineffective he was at getting his way. He was replaced with Clint .... and the journey to Cali 2.0 began. This is the only journey you have control of and the New Year is just as good a time as any for you to turn your focus inward and change the things you actually can change and allow her to go about her journey.

You are really doing well ... you are sharing your inner feelings here ... as a man that's tough to do because we were programmed early on to not do such things. Many here can read what you write and help nudge you along as we have all stumbled on those same rocks, been smacked with the same 2x4's, and in my case I was force fed those same strawberry STFU smoothies and worn out 4-5 spew jackets.

[BluWave]

Hi SBJ, I wanted to move our convo over to your thread :-)

SBJ, I am glad that you recognize it't time to work on you! It is the hardest thing to do, but ultimately will serve you the most in the long run.

In terms of if she is having a MLC, or not, well I don't think that should change what you do. Honestly, I think sometimes the LBS finds comfort in categorizing the S as having a MLC, because it hangs on to some hope that it is not a permanent change--they may come back around or they may snap out of it--when really, we don't know what/why. We may never.

So, with the little that I know about you, I do think you are allowing her to cake eat and so she doesn't feel the loss of you. If she has moved out and is filing for D, then why are you spending the holidays with her and having family time?

I am not being condescending, but I am truly wondering. If she finalized the D and has an OM, then would you still want this family time? Or are you only having family time in hopes that she will come back around? I think you should really think about this!

OK. I am going to copy/paste this in your thread so we can continue convo there.

Blu

[SBJ]

I have been able to keep my desires at bay for the last 2 months she has been out of the house. No R talk initiated by me. Only one hug that was initiated by her with kisses on the cheek (Christmas Eve). Only one semi-intimate hand grab initiated by us both as I was leaving her condo (Christmas Day night).

My goals are for SBJ 2.0 beginning now. Spiritual, Physical, and Emotional awakening starts today...why wait for new years.

I totally appreciate the fact that everyone here cares so much about the well-being of one another. It is truly comforting to know that we are all going thru the same chit, but are at different stops on the journey. It helps to know that you are not alone in all of this. Our friends and family see that we are battling something, but they have no real clue as to the depth of the pain and confusion that we are dealing with.

God bless you into and thru 2017!!!

[SBJ]

Thank you Blu...Hope the last week of the year is kind to you.

[SBJ]

So, with the little that I know about you, I do think you are allowing her to cake eat and so she doesn't feel the loss of you. If she has moved out and is filing for D, then why are you spending the holidays with her and having family time?

I am not being condescending, but I am truly wondering. If she finalized the D and has an OM, then would you still want this family time? Or are you only having family time in hopes that she will come back around? I think you should really think about this!

[/quote]

I guess nobody knows for sure, but our MC mentioned that she felt that MLC was the case. Not to mention that I feel like alot of the signs are there, but again I say nobody knows for sure.

I agree that I probably am allowing her to cake eat a bit, but I am working on that. My son said that she had asked him if she should ask to stay the night on Christmas Eve...he told her that it probably not a good idea...he is tougher that I am.

And NO to your question on what would I do after the D is finalized. She feels that we will be friends even though I have told her that that will not happen afterwards. We have always had a great friendship and it truly hurts that I have lost both the spousal relationship as well as the friendship, but that is something that I am working on.

I guess you are right in that I do have hopes that she will realize what is missing and come back around, but I am trying to figure out. Somehow I have to get my head around making me better and not worrying about her at all. Again, I pray for her daily, but I have to leave her in God's hands right now.

[hawker]

I totally appreciate the fact that everyone here cares so much about the well-being of one another. It is truly comforting to know that we are all going thru the same chit, but are at different stops on the journey. It helps to know that you are not alone in all of this. Our friends and family see that we are battling something, but they have no real clue as to the depth of the pain and confusion that we are dealing with.

I agree, it has helped me as well to hear other people's stories to see I am not alone. I met up with a friend who is going through the same thing and it's just so crazy on how the scripts are the same. No one really understands unless you have gone through this, I am also thankful for having a place to talk to others who get it.

[hawker]

Ummmm my quotes are not working correctly or I have user error.

[Vapo]

You forgot to close the bracket at the 1st line...

I fixed it for you.

[hawker]

Thank you :-)

[SBJ]

Last night I made the decision not to go to a party thrown by my FIL for his extended family. I was invited by them, but the last week has been an emotional roller coaster. My oldest said that it was a good time.

I miss alot of them, but she has fired me from being her husband and has to realize that things will be different from now on. I did the family Christmas for me and the kids, but that is done for 2016.

Not sure what the kids and I will do for New Years Eve, but I'd like to do something with them. My oldest has plans, but the 10/14 yo haven't given me any ideas. Does anyone have kid friendly ideas?

I sure hope I can find my peace before I start the year. A friend of mine made a comment the other day that he was surprised that I wasn't mad. While I admit that I could easily be mad ad this whole sitch, I asked him what good would that do. I told him, that if by the grace of God she came to realize that she wanted to come home...would my being mad make that easier or harder. He said he got it, but didn't understand it. Maybe by me realizing that her "crisis" is kind of out of her control, it helps me not be mad at her...frustrated yes, but not mad.

[SBJ]

I don't like the fact that these emotions come and go as they do. It is all I can do not to call her and tell her to come home, but that is not what I'm suppose to do. It is hard to wake up daily without her by my side. It is hard to go to bed at night without watching her sleep next to me. It is difficult to wake up every morning knowing that the contact with her will be only if she calls regarding something for the kids.

They are so much better at DB'ing than we are. They are able to shut us out of their lives with such ease...or at least it looks easy from where I sit.

Why can't it be like in her silly romance novels or romantic comedies where the couple is separated and thru a series of crazy events they find themselves back together. She reads those books and watches those movies like they are going out of style, yet she hasn't had a romantic bone in her body. Not to mention if I'd ever try something, she'd call me cheesy.

I'm just venting...going to happy hour with two friends tonight. Both have gone thru D...one wife was a raging alcoholic and the other believes was going thru a MLC...she left him and her kids and never looked back. That is a much worse case than my sitch, but stinks nonetheless.

[AndrewP]

Not sure what the kids and I will do for New Years Eve, but I'd like to do something with them. My oldest has plans, but the 10/14 yo haven't given me any ideas. Does anyone have kid friendly ideas?

Board games, unhealthy snacks and then some sort of sparkling drink to toast with.

[SBJ]

Thanks AP...anything to keep us all in the same room together. I'm sure they will both pile up in my room to sleep. They are awesome. The oldest will fend for himself in his room, but that is OK.

Football and meat on the smoker for Sunday equals an awesome day.

[Vapo]

They are so much better at DB'ing than we are. They are able to shut us out of their lives with such ease...or at least it looks easy from where I sit.

This is an easy one. The fact it seems so much easier for them is that they are at least a year and half ahead of you. The BD for you was not BD for her. She started living it up at least a year and half ago. If you think about it, you should be able to spot some unusual details in retrospective.

[CaliGuy]

SBJ

The emotions are tough ... but if you did not have them it would probably be more alarming no? Understand they will come in cycles, and intensity but over time they will decrease the more you begin to grow/heal and deal with them.

[SBJ]

They are so much better at DB'ing than we are. They are able to shut us out of their lives with such ease...or at least it looks easy from where I sit.

This is an easy one. The fact it seems so much easier for them is that they are at least a year and half ahead of you. The BD for you was not BD for her. She started living it up at least a year and half ago. If you think about it, you should be able to spot some unusual details in retrospective.

I can't chart it all the way back to 18 months back, but starting in January certain things did change. She became a fitness fanatic. She became much more concerned about her looks...wrinkles and such...really about aging. She told me that I told her I loved her too much. She told me that I complimented her on her looks too much.

Those are the types of things that really stand out.

SBJ

The emotions are tough ... but if you did not have them it would probably be more alarming no? Understand they will come in cycles, and intensity but over time they will decrease the more you begin to grow/heal and deal with them.

I am starting to get more control of them, but I feel that it is good to have them. I just wish I could pick and choose when and where they would hit. Driving down the highway is no place to lose it. Taking care of a patient is no place to break. Seeing an elderly married couple sitting together in a restaurant holding hands is a bad place as well.

I had a friend ask me the other day why I wasn't mad or angry...I guess I am coming to grips with the fact that this is out of my control and that I did nothing to cause her crisis. I know that I can improve as a man, a husband, a father, a son, and a brother, but I am not the cause of her crisis.

Just saw a video of a woman describing how to let go and let God take control of the situation. I pray that I am able to do that and that she is able to open her heart to him.

May 2017 be the year we all succeed!!!

[d_Rose]

Hi SBJ - made it through all your threads!

I too have been unable to muster anger - it is just not my nature. Overwhelming grief, self pity, disbelief, but not anger. I sometimes think the anger would be easier to deal with in the short term.

It is good to see how spiritual you seem to be. It has really helped me. I try to work toward and pray to be able to let go of the outcome, and just let God take it. As a fixer, it is hard to give up that control. I try really hard to not pray for a specific outcome, but that we may each find peace and comfort in whatever His plan is for us. Boy is that hard to remember that the rest of the day.

I saw you mentioned above about seeing a patient. Are you in the medical field? I am a nurse, so the word "patient" always peaks my curiosity!

Your comments about choosing where to experience your emotions really resonates. It hits me in the most unexpected places and times - most recently at Ikea. (we would always go to Ikea when we first moved to a new assignment to get the basics) Silly, I know. I will say though, as this progresses I am able to recover from these waves of emotion much quicker and not get stuck in them quite as much.

Your New Years sounds wonderful surrounded by your kids and watching movies. No matter what happens with our M, we have wonderful families we have nurtured and will continue to love and share our life with. That gives me hope and meaning.

Happy New Year

[SBJ]

So received an early call from the W this morning. She said she was going over the Temp Orders and had questions regarding money. She said she knows this isn't what I want, but wants to do it in a nice manner so the kids aren't affected. It is crazy how they feel that parents splitting up won't affect the kids.

I slipped at one point when she asked what I wanted to do about it...I simply said that the door is wide open for her right now, but that if D goes thru we won't be friends as she has stated in the past.

How one can throw someone they say is their best friend in the world away is overwhelmingly crazy.

[SBJ]

Happy New Year to everyone...I hope and pray that 2017 will be a year of positive results for all of us here.

I saw a NY morning quote from Tony Robbins that said...Decide who you will become, what you will give, and how you will live. I thought it describes all of us here pretty well. We are becoming stronger people, giving more of ourselves, and trying to live awesome quality lives for ourselves and our families.

Journal:
The W is continually talking about the divorce process and seems to be pushing forward full steam ahead. She is asking questions regarding money and retirement accounts and the like. She is talking about the house appraisal and asking about my refinancing options. It is very frustrating.

She is also posting pics of her out and about with alot of new girlfriends that she has made since the BD...this is frustrating to me, but I also realize that she is trying to find herself or find what she thinks is missing, I guess.

I almost feel that I am going to have to go thru with the D and hope and pray that we might be able to reconcile on the other side. Someone said on the threads a while back that the MLC'er sometimes has to carry out the D all the way thru before they realize that that wasn't the problem in the first place. It is crazy to me, but maybe that is just me. Our entire family (kids, parents, aunts & uncles) and most of our friends know that this is a one-sided D, so it kind of stinks to know that I have so many people that understand, but there is nothing I can do, but ride the storm.

[Coly23]

Hey SBJ, just thought I would pop over to your thread as you were so kind as to visit me.

I haven't read through your whole sitch but I will do shortly. Sound like your W is well into the tunnel with going out and her need to D.

I have also read that sometimes we need to let them go through with the D for them to realise that it wasn't the answer. Also I've read quite a few sitches where a quick D never bodes well for the WAS as they haven't had time to process anything of what they are doing. I am hoping and praying though that it doesn't have to get to this stage.

IMO when people constantly put up photos on social media of them enjoying themselves I think they are just trying to prove a point. She is trying to prove that she can have a life without you. If she was so confident then she wouldn't need too prove it. Anyway I hate things like FB!

[CaliGuy]

SBJ

Yes ... I know with my MLCr the New Year brings in a burst of energy which they try to use to propel the cause if you will and they drink a bit more of the Cool-Aide to convince themselves this is the new exciting life they have been deprived of. Hang in there, its been said the secret to this is to out last the crisis ... as you hinted its a one sided D, in other words its her D and allow her to do the heavy lifting.

[SBJ]

H
I have also read that sometimes we need to let them go through with the D for them to realise that it wasn't the answer. Also I've read quite a few sitches where a quick D never bodes well for the WAS as they haven't had time to process anything of what they are doing. I am hoping and praying though that it doesn't have to get to this stage.

IMO when people constantly put up photos on social media of them enjoying themselves I think they are just trying to prove a point. She is trying to prove that she can have a life without you. If she was so confident then she wouldn't need too prove it. Anyway I hate things like FB!

Thanks for coming over Coly...it is always nice to hear for new people and also get new VP's...both from men and women. We are all fighting the same fight. May he grant us the strength to stand for as long as we can.

I can see that she has to have it over with...I just hope and pray that her eyes are opened to the fact that that wasn't the right answer. She has always been the type to get or do what she wants right when she decides on it...there is no planning or waiting for things...hence the rush, and yes she is tunnel surfing right now.

Hang in there, its been said the secret to this is to out last the crisis ... as you hinted its a one sided D, in other words its her D and allow her to do the heavy lifting.

Hey CaliGuy...I can out last the crisis...I just might be doing it from the outside of the M looking in. I guess as they say...the first M is dead anyway.

Did some reading on the prodigal spouse thing over the break...it is intense...I am praying for all of our H/W's to return to us in a much better way this new year.

Matthew 10:26
“Therefore do not be afraid of them. Nothing is concealed that will not be revealed, nor secret that will not be known.*

Happy New Year to you both!!!

[SBJ]

Batchitcrazy has struck again...it is funny...not really, that they think that we should be easy-go-lucky about splitting all of our family and our assets up during this evil process they call a divorce. She moved out and totally furnished a new place without consulting me, and now wants half of the value of the furniture in our home.

She even wants to ignore our attorneys orders and just do an amicable split on paper between the two of us. She is the one that has built up our debt so that is a resounding NO.

She feels that just because I bent over backwards to give into her every need and desire for our 25 year relationship, that I should do the same when she is trying to get out of it and move on to greener pastures. Is it wrong of me to hope the pastures on the other side of the fence are brown and rotten when she finds them?

[AndrewP]

SBJ - I stole this from another thread you were posting on. I'm not MrBond although I do look good in a bow tie.

Mr. Bond...not meaning to hijack, but...

I have read the DR book and am struggling with the whole...how am I going to save my M when it is imminent that we are going to be divorced in the near future and she doesn't want to fix our M. I am becoming a better version of myself for me and my children, but should I embrace the D as something that she has to complete (as our original M is dead anyway)? Should I do what I said I would never do and totally let her go? That seems to be the advice mostly found on here...drop the rope and don't be afraid of losing them. Totally counter intuitive, but seems that I have no choice in the matter. Not to mention that it is totally against my moral views...I hope and pray this is the right thing for me to do.

I know that you are a man of faith, a stronger faith than my own so I hope you'll forgive me for channeling something that job often writes here. She is still in God's hands and He's not done with her yet. Perhaps you can look at it as not "letting her go" but more that you are releasing her to a higher power.

I struggle a lot with this myself perhaps from the same point of view but without the benefit of Faith. I'd hate to presume that I know how your mind and heart are set. I've promised my W that I would not "abandon" her. To me, that's different than letting her go on her own path. She is on her own path and I let her go. I still think about her and worry about her but am leaving her to walk her own path. Where my struggle comes in and perhaps yours as well is - at what point do we decide that they have completely moved on and we can move on away from them with a clean conscience knowing that we have fulfilled our Duty to them. Someone, I think it was Cadet once wrote that you only "have" to quit when they pile dirt on you.

As far as the divorce goes, it's just a piece of paper and if she wants it, she can do all the work. It is not your role to either enable or dissuade her from it only to protect yourself and your family.

One reason I'm responding here is with regards to this post.

She even wants to ignore our attorneys orders and just do an amicable split on paper between the two of us. She is the one that has built up our debt so that is a resounding NO.

Absolutely. I've been doing a lot of reading on separation agreements lately and what makes them enforceable. These sort of things are sometimes referred to as "Kitchen Table Agreements" and lawyers love them because if they are ever challenged they never hold together. Just because your W may agree initially doesn't mean that someone won't whisper into her ear that she didn't get what "she deserves" and you end up with huge legal bills and the fight you were trying to avoid in the first place. I don't know about your location but here in order to be considered "valid" and enforceable by the courts each party must have separate independent legal advice that the agreement is equitable and that both parties fully understand it.

If you do come to an agreement it will probably simplify your life and free you from any debt obligations she may run up and it's just a piece of paper and they haven't piled dirt up on you yet.

Good Luck.

[SBJ]

Thanks AP...I guess that is my problem. We as husbands promised to never "abandon" our wives, but when that person wants out what do we do. She is so sure of this D that it makes me crazy. She even says to me..."you will see one day that this is for the best". Even though I know it is just her MLC way of trying to convince me, it makes me crazy.

MLC isn't supposed to make sense, but come on man. She isn't trying to be mean or cruel (at least I don't think so), but I guess because I am adamantly against D every time we discuss it it totally drives me nuts.

A counselor friend of mine told me a story of a couple that she was counseling thru the husbands affair. They were going along for a long time and the wife kept telling the counselor that she forgives the husband for the affair, but wasn't ready to tell him yet. The counselor asked how long the wife would draw it out and the wife replied..."When I feel he has suffered enough". I know that they, the MLC'er, puts alot of blame onto the LBS and I wonder if they do what they do to make us hurt or feel some of what they are going thru.

[SBJ]

The last 22+ years of my M-life has been totally divided into dollars and cents...she has no sentimental value towards anything we owned together. She has her new house, new furniture, and new life w/o me as her husband...now she has also figured out a way to make herself happy...right? While I know that this is all part of the script...it sure does stink.

[HaWho]

I am sorry SBJ. It is painful to see the MLCer drag out the dumpster and start tossing everything over his/her shoulder. Her behavior is neither normal nor rational unless of course she is in MLC. It is crazy to witness.

I read your last few posts about the difficulty of letting her go and feeling like you need to do more. Just a friendly reminder that although it takes two to marry it only takes one to uncouple. You know you can't control her or her decisions.

However, you do hurt yourself and you add time to all this by emotionally holding on to her mess. Letting go, of course does not mean she will come back. But, as holding on does not fix it (only adds time to the clock), the only healthy choice is to let go.

I know this is easier said than done. Give it over to God. As you know, much is written about tossing vows into a dumpster.

[SBJ]

Thanks for the visit andkindwords HaWho...all of the easy is making it easier to not like her right now and hopefully will make it easier to let go, but as I said before it goes against my nature. My parents divorce affected me more than I know which instilled in me a desire to make my M work. Unfortunately, her parents D showed her that it is ok to D. I'm between Arouca and a hard place on this one.

I have to let go either way...and she will either come back or not. The odds stink either way.

[MrBond]

SBJ, you asked this on another thread.
'I have read the DR book and am struggling with the whole...how am I going to save my M when it is imminent that we are going to be divorced in the near future and she doesn't want to fix our M. I am becoming a better version of myself for me and my children, but should I embrace the D as something that she has to complete (as our original M is dead anyway)? Should I do what I said I would never do and totally let her go? That seems to be the advice mostly found on here...drop the rope and don't be afraid of losing them. Totally counter intuitive, but seems that I have no choice in the matter. Not to mention that it is totally against my moral views...I hope and pray this is the right thing for me to do.'

You know what that whole comment reeks of? Fear. Do what you think is right and what works. Clinging on with your claws hasn't worked. Do the next thing. Not for her but for you.

[skm0619]

SBJ....

I'm sorry you are having a hard time these past couple of days.

I understand how you feel when you say "should I do what I said I would never do and totally let her go" this does seem like the "wrong" thing to do in our minds. I honestly don't know if I will ever feel comfortable with it, but it is what I have chosen to do. I have been dealing with my situation longer then you so maybe time has made it easier for me to make this decision. It was not an easy one to make by any means, but these past couple of days I have had this sense of wanting and needing to let go and see what happens. It doesn't mean that I have given up on the hope that one day things for my situation will improve, or that I don't think about my H all day long. It means that I am letting him do what he needs to do.....whatever that is.

I see my husband post things on social media and it makes me upset that he is out there doing things without me. But I know that he is only posting those things to make himself feel better. I know deep down inside he has tremendous guilt and shame, and is suffering just like I am, but he doesn't know how, or want to deal with his emotions. So, he posts pictures showing everyone how much fun he is having, when in reality he isn't having any fun at all.

I'm sad for you (and me) that we are having to go through all of this. I hope you have a better day.

[SBJ]

You know what that whole comment reeks of? Fear. Do what you think is right and what works. Clinging on with your claws hasn't worked. Do the next thing. Not for her but for you.

Mr. Bond, you are correct about the fear and I am praying that I can let go of the fear of letting her go...again, it just goes against all of what I promised her in the beginning of our relationship. She has been out of the house for 2 months as of today. I do not call her or text her unless it is something for one of our children. I respond to her texts or phone calls short & calmly.

I admit that I was the guy that smothered his wife with praise, hugs, kisses, and probably did way too much for her that she could have and should have done for herself. I'm not able to do that at the moment since she fired me from that role. I'm spending my time trying to get better for me thru exercise, eating right, spending time in the word, spending time with my kids, spending time with other strong men of faith, and learning to be me again...instead of us.

In what other way do I need to drop the rope and release her? I pray ceaselessly for her and try and give her and my marriage to God and let him do the work, but as a human being, it is difficult to not think about her.

SBJ....

I'm sorry you are having a hard time these past couple of days.

I understand how you feel when you say "should I do what I said I would never do and totally let her go" this does seem like the "wrong" thing to do in our minds. I honestly don't know if I will ever feel comfortable with it, but it is what I have chosen to do. I have been dealing with my situation longer then you so maybe time has made it easier for me to make this decision. It was not an easy one to make by any means, but these past couple of days I have had this sense of wanting and needing to let go and see what happens. It doesn't mean that I have given up on the hope that one day things for my situation will improve, or that I don't think about my H all day long. It means that I am letting him do what he needs to do.....whatever that is.

I see my husband post things on social media and it makes me upset that he is out there doing things without me. But I know that he is only posting those things to make himself feel better. I know deep down inside he has tremendous guilt and shame, and is suffering just like I am, but he doesn't know how, or want to deal with his emotions. So, he posts pictures showing everyone how much fun he is having, when in reality he isn't having any fun at all.

I'm sad for you (and me) that we are having to go through all of this. I hope you have a better day.

skm0619...I am also sorry that we are in this predicament, but we are. I wish I had all of the answers to make things better or to heal all of our wounds, but I don't. I think only time will tell whether we make the right choices or the wrong ones.

I read Conway's 6 stages of MLC again yesterday and was just as blown away. I think my W is deep into the replay portion, but who really knows? She is so darn certain that her life is going to be better when not married to me. She is certain that our D will have no negative affects on our kids. She is treating the D process just like buying a new car. She is totally unemotional about any of it...at least when speaking to me. Maybe behind closed doors she breaks down a bit, but I don't know.

Because we are a remote control society, I wish this MLC had a fast forward button on it, but that isn't going to happen. As Mr. Bond said I am fearful that if I drop her completely, I might not ever want to pick her back up again...not saying she will be there anyway, but you know what I mean.

[Sotto]

Yes, don't equate 'letting go' with moving on, closing the door, not caring - or whatever else you may be struggling with.

Letting go doesn't mean giving up on the M or failing her in anyway, but in these difficult situations, sometimes we need to truly let go in order to hold on. I once read that the most loving thing to do for someone is to allow them the dignity to take their own journey, even though they don't want you to be part of it.

Now, you can do all of this and ultimately be willing to keep the door open a tiny crack, should things turn at some point going forwards. For me, I went very dim and let go of the outcome. However, when XH told me he wanted a D, I told him clearly that I loved him and that D wasn't what I wanted and that I hoped we would find our way back to each other going forwards. He decided to proceed with the D in any case, but I rested easier having told him that after months and months of DBing.

For me, letting go was a accepting that I didn't get to control the outcome - I only got to control me. And I came to accept that XH has his life and I have mine. And if he chooses to spend his life with OW, that's up to him and I will decide how I spend my life and with whom. We just became very much separate in my mind. Not a unit. The D further helped that as he wasn't even 'my H' any longer. He just became some guy who has a girlfriend..

Hope this helps a little anyway

[SBJ]

I spoke with a friend/counselor yesterday who told me that I have done all I can do to hold my M together and if she decides to get out, then I can always know and tell my kids that I did all that I could do. It is simply frustrating to want something so bad, yet not be able to attain it. I was sure we could break this curse of divorce that runs in our families...I guess the big guy has other plans for us at the moment.

She has filed and is working diligently on getting this thing done in record time. I am a true believer in that things happen in God's timing, but it is still a hard pill to swallow.

I told her months ago something similar that my DB coach suggested...I said, "I disagree that Divorce is the best option, but I love you and respect you if that is your decision. The hardest words to ever come out of my mouth. She took those words and kept running with them. She know I love her. She knows I want her. There is no more to say.

Again thanks...

[Vapo]

SKM,

at the very least unfollow your H from social networks (unfriend is way better, better even is block). Do not trust FB for 1 sec.

(SBJ, sorry for the hijack)

[mirage]

SBJ,

I wish I could show the newer people on here that there is a better life waiting for them. Unfortunately, or as I think fortunately you have to go through this journey yourself to really see the things behind the curtain that you are to see.

Hang in there. we would or will have a different conversation down the road. One where you have learned lessons you cannot even comprehend now.

Mirage

[SBJ]

Mirage I suppose you are right. The LBS and the MLC'er both have to go thru their own journey. I am trying to stay positive about my situation...I have 3 beautiful kids that I adore, a family that are amazing, wonderful friends that will go to the mat for me, and a strong faith in God. I will survive this and be a better man for it.

It is just my nature as a self-proclaimed fixer to try and understand why she feels that our M cannot and should not be saved. Maybe one of these days she will see all of the good things that I see, but until then I am trying to work on me.

[CaliGuy]

SBJ

Been following along but to busy to really post much.

Allow yourself to grieve, if you were not upset about this situation well it would most likely be your W here posting and asking for advice on how to survive your crisis right?

She is doing this D thing fast for 2 reasons, one its like the band-aide... its going to hurt more if you slowly take it off right? Second ... she has been thinking aobut this for a long time, planning it out, this is not a spur of the moment idea. Just know that .... also know that reality and what she has fantasized will be very much 2 different things, this is why we are pushing you to truly DB and trust the process. You will be a better man from all of this if you do the work and either she will wake up later and see that, or she won't ... regardless the end result that YOU can control will be there. Its your choice on what that person looks like ... the time is now to become the best version of you that is possible.

[SBJ]

Thanks for the response CaliGuy...it has been a bit since I saw your name. I hope all is well in your neck of the woods.

The D process just stinks and having to divide everything up is crazy...stuff is stuff, but it gets wacky saying you take this and I'll take that. I would trade all of my belongings for things to work out between us, but that is not how this thing works.

I'm going to continue to do the work on me...for me and my kids.

[job]

mirage and Cali are both very spot on w/their postings. Your journey will be revealed to you as you continue to travel your life's path. It does take a while to unfold, but when you do begin to see what is in store for you, you'll be amazed at how far you will have come, as well as being far wiser than you have ever been. You'll begin to see people, places and things so differently...but again...that is further down the road. Trust the system, have faith in the man upstairs.

Cali is absolutely correct when he stated that your wife has been thinking about a D for a while. It's not a snap decision on her part, just as the BD wasn't a snap decision. They tend to disconnect from their old lives approximately 12-24 months prior to the bomb drop. They have already left the marriage and that old life behind and that's why it is so much easier for them to move on and actually cut ties w/all that they knew. We are part of that past and they don't want to be reminded of what they had or how good it was at the moment. Divorce, to them, is called "freedom". Freedom to do whatever they want, when they want to and w/whom they want to be with. Freedom is the brass ring that they are trying to grasp on the merry-to-round as they go round and round. Unfortunately, nothing really changes except they aren't married any longer to us. Life continues to go on, responsibilities are still a day-to day thing, and their euphoria lasts just about 6 months before all of this "freedom" comes crashing down. They soon discover that the bills continue to come in, the things that they did when living w/us continue because they have to work, pay bills, shop for groceries, clean their places, etc. and yes, the "guilty little demons" still come out to play at night when things are very quiet and they have nothing to occupy their time or minds.

So, while they are hitting bricks walls and trying everything on God's green earth to stay happy, we are working on ourselves and we are working thru the process and not around it, i.e., like they are.

Bottom line, we can't see the work that is taking place within them, but we sure can see the work that we are doing on ourselves each and every day. Why? Because we are growing by leaps and bounds, rediscovering ourselves, stepping outside our comfort zones and trying new things, meeting new people and some are evening relocating.

Have faith in yourself and the man upstairs. He works in mysterious ways and we don't always get what we want, but we do get what he thinks we need.

Just my two cents.

[Vapo]

Amen Job...

[SBJ]

job...One of my favorite tunes is below...kind of sad, but pretty spot on. I'm tired of feeling down and want to get back that happy feeling again. I'm not losing hope for she and I, but I cannot change her...she has to come to me if she ever want decides...right?

"Learned A Lot"

Hey baby! It's all gravy
We all do what we got to do
Hey darling! I'm broken hearted
I've been crying but my crying is through

[Chorus:]
And I've learned a lot
I've really learned a lot
Broken down on a bedroom floor
Yes I learned a lot
Really learned a lot
I hope you found what you were looking for

Spent a lot of time staring at the ceiling
Spent a lot of time talking to wall
Spent a lot of time chasing that old-time feeling
Spent a lot of time waiting on your call

[Chorus]

Oh and darling! The sun has been fallin'
Like the dust on some mid-Western plain
Oh and darling! Instead of runnin'
I think it might be time
You sit down
And deal with the pain

Late at night I sit and listen to the freeway
Rolling like a river on a distant shore
Nobody told me that living was easy
I ain't living in fear anymore

[Chorus]

I hope you found what you were looking for

[MrBond]

No one is telling you to give up. What you're doing is giving up CONTROL. Sounds like you're a godly man, so give your W to her. Concentrate on your actions and not on your W's.

What is your list of goals as per DB and the actions on how you are going to achieve those goals.

[SBJ]

MrBond...my goals seem to be changing daily.
I am trying to keep a PMA so my kids see dad as a strong man that will be able to withstand any storm thrown his way.
I am eating right and working out on a fairly regular basis.
I am reading to keep my mind working. spiritually, mentally, emotionally.
I am working at starting a men's support group at my church with a counselor friend of mine.
I have signed up for a Tough Mudder Race with some friends of mine that I've known for 35 years...Sept. 2017...nervous and excited at the same time.
And I am making my bed first thing every morning...routine. I forgot who I heard it from, but it has helped. Maybe Roist/CaliGuy...I forget.

I am also trying to keep my sanity...my W is trying to rush thru the D process so that she saves money. Our 25 yr history all boils down to dollars and cents to her. She wants to save money on the attorneys fees and take half of everything we worked so hard for over the last 25 years. Actually she doesn't want the stuff, she just wants cash value. How miserable.

[skm0619]

SBJ....

I read what someone posted on your thread that said "don't equate letting go with moving on....letting go doesn't mean giving up, but sometimes we truly need to let go in order to hold on"

I have noticed that I am slowly letting go and I am feeling okay with that decision. Yes it is not what I thought I would ever do, nor do I want to let go, but it is me giving up control and seeing what happens in this process. I am TERRIFIED that once I fully let go my H will not come back. But, to be honest he walked away a while ago I just didn't want to see it at the time.

I hear your sadness and hurt and I wish there was something someone could do or say to you to make you feel better. I am not someone who has a strong faith, but luckily you are. Turn to GOD and your faith when you have those moments of doubt, hopelessness and sadness.

You know that when your wife is sitting all alone in her new place that she is having moments of sadness and doubts. She will not admit to it but she is.

I love what Job said .....
so, while they are hitting brick walls and trying everything on God's green earth to stay happy, we are working on ourselves and we are working thru the process and not around it, i.e., like they are"

Stay strong...

[SBJ]

SKM0619...THX for the kind words. My faith tells me to give all of my cares to God, but that doesn't mean that we don't have doubts that creep into our mind. I guess my issue is how fast everything seems to "me". I get when they say that she has had these thoughts and feelings for a long time, but it didn't really get to me until July...now 6 months later she is rushing the D.

One of her friends reached out last night checking on me and I told her that I am strong enough to handle what is happening, but that I realize that she "has" to complete what she started, because she does that with everything in her life. She always finishes what she starts. Funny thing is that it didn't include her M.

I try not to think about what she does out on her own...it kind of stings since we did everything together. It's not that I want her to hurt or feel bad/sad about what is happening, but I do want her to see that what we have in our family is actually good.

I agree with you on what job says...actually all of the vets on here are full of wise advice. It is good that we have them, but it is sad that there are so many of us that are either in it or have gone thru it.

My prayer list keeps getting longer and longer...pretty soon I'm going to have to take off an entire day just to get to you all.

[CaliGuy]

SBJ

The bed being made every morning was me, its still something I do every morning, it starts the day off with one small accomplishment that seems so simple but when you struggle to even get out of bed its huge. The logic behind it became a bit more clear was when I was just starting to scratch the surface of true change, I wanted to be a better man .... admittedly it was to win back my wife of course .... but then over time it became so much more about me and my personal growth than it was about doing it for her. I then had the epiphany .... I was 100% guilty of doing so many things for/because of her that over time I lost ME. If you read ... or a series of similar male improvement literature you sill see this theme is common for us fixers. Cali 2.0 was there and ready to be unleashed I just had to find the courage to hit the reboot button. (I speak in nerd code sometimes so bear with em) It was scary ... you are afraid if you do a hard reboot you may have a system failure ... your computer is locked up and basically worthless so you really have nothing to lose ... you just have to find the courage to do it.

This forum is full of people who never asked for this, never thought we would find ourselves 'here'. Unfortunately life is not always fair, it sometimes plays by its own rules and throws us some nasty curves ... in this case it feels like we were hit by the pitch and not allowed to take first base. I refused to be that bitter person wasting negative energy on someone/something that came out of the blue and made no sense. I have reached that spot where I almost feel sorry for her but I refuse to allow her crisis to waste anymore of my time/life. This is not out of spite nor anger, it comes from a place of peace and strength that I would have NEVER arrived at without this forum.

I will share this with you, I would never have considered myself a 'Man of God' but... all this ... the lessons I learned .. I would have not learned without this pain, nor would I have grown from it all. My relationship with God and my son have increased leaps and bounds. For that I am grateful and I trust that He will deliver me just where I need to be WHEN I am to be there, its not our time line ... never really was.

I leave you with the passage that was on my phone yesterday and it seems to fit so many of us:

1 Peter 5:10
And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal glory in Christ, after you have suffered a little while, will himself restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast.

[SBJ]

Thanks Cali 2.0...

One of my favorites is James 12:
Blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because, having stood the test, that person will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him.

We are all in this together...I hope and pray that we will all be better for enduring these trials that we didn't ask for. Maybe this is what we needed to reach our full potential.

[AndrewP]

SBJ - your line "we are all in this together" reminded me of a Canadian icon, Red Green.

If you want a bit of a laugh check out him out on YouTube by searching "Red Green philosophy". He will often end the segment by saying "I'm pullin for 'ya - we're all in this together." as he finishes working on his fishing fly.

Nothing particularly helpful for your situation. Just a good laugh for a Friday night.

[SBJ]

Journaling...having an urge to reach out to W and tell her to come home. I know I'm supposed to stay strong and not say those things, but it is a strong urge. Not sure why it is so strong, but it is.

I will try and do other things to take my mind off of it...

[Vapo]

Just ask yourself WILL IT WORK? And then act accordingly...

If you think it might work (IT WILL NOT) do give it a go, but you are in no position to throw any hail mary passes...

You are speaking from neediness and desperation. Do some physical exercises, it will help...

[roist]

Begging, pleading or just asking her to come back WILL NOT WORK. There are many reasons for this. I don't have the time to outline in detail but here is my viewpoint.

Your W has been unhappy with you for a long time (18-24 months at least) she has weighed up her feelings, thoughts and options. That process led her to deciding to leave you and split the family unit. That was not a light hearted decision.She believed it was the best option, maybe even the ONLY option.

Nothing you say will affect that decision except to reinforce it.

To be attractive to someone you need to be a strong independent (or more accurately non- dependant man. You must not NEED her. Neediness,begging and pleading are not attractive.

You should show her that you can live and thrive without her. That is attractive. Aim for that. Fake it until you make it if you need to. Think about what brings a smile to your face or a bounce in your step.Add those things into your life.

Admit it or not but being in a R has restrictions. The benefits of the R usually outweigh those compromises but they exist. Now you have an opportunity to do whatever you want with your life. Live it to the Max. I am not debating the merits of being in a R/M but pointing out that being separated can also be an opportunity. Seize it. Go find yourself and your happiness.

TBH what other choice do you have? None. Either you let this hold you down or you rise above it. A simple choice but hard to impliment.

Going back to your urge. I understand it and I know how you feel. During my journey I have found that every time I had such an urge or felt compelled to do something, most often it was not the best thing to do. If you feel you have to try something or do something, to me that is a warning not to.

I am confident acting on this urge will not bring ye closer to reconciliation but actually further. Again just my opinion. I urge you not to.but if you really need to act on this urge, go for it. Maybe her reaction is what you need to accept where she is and that you cannot change that. Maybe then you will be able to focus on YOU and YOUR goals.

Best wishes

[job]

roist,

An excellent posting and very well said.

[mirage]

Yes, Roist great post.

For the record, SBJ, I have lived that road to my own happpiness less my EXW and it was worth it 10 times over.

I understand it's hard to walk away from someone you have spent many years with. Do what ever you have to do to keep walking that path. If for some reason she changes her mind you will know.

Mirage

[SBJ]

Thank you guys for the responses...I didn't think I would act on it, but was just saying that I had this strong urge. It is probably brought on by the fact that she has been so talkative about the impending D. She keeps trying to discuss splitting assets and how that would all play out. I keep telling her to talk to her attorney and have him send anything to mine.

25 years with someone is hard to let go...I really am trying to find my peace, but she has been such an integral part of my world for so so it is difficult to release her from my thoughts. One of the biggest issues with our relationship was the fact that we would not tell the other something with the fear that it would hurt the others feelings. She obviously overcame that since she seems to have no problem letting me go.

I will work hard this week to add to or increase things that will keep my mind busy. Cleaning the garage, increasing my mileage, hitting the weights with my oldest son, watching football with friends, and reading.

[Gordie]

SBJ,

I've spent days reading all of your posts and have learned a lot. My BD was in September 2016, are still living together, and are working on a separation agreement. Like you, my W is also my best friend of 20 years and we have kids and my W insists that we will continue to be friends after we separate and that, in time, I will see that this is the best for the development of our relationship.

Thank you for sharing your story. It gives me insight and preparation into some of the difficult things to come (such as having to to tell the kids and actually living apart).

[SBJ]

Gordie, thanks for stopping by. The funny thing about all of our situations is that they are all very similar. Most of us are in it to win it, but our MLC'r has to figure out what is the priority in their lives.

I was directed to read the story of the prodigal son this morning (Luke 15:11-32)...and it is funny how easily we can replace the word son with spouse. They are wanting to take their share and go out into the world. They want to do the things that they think will fulfill their lives...because they feel that something is missing or that there is something more important for them to do in life. At times I feel like that father...sitting by the window and praying that she is alright and finding the true meaning of all of this. I don't want to hurt, but I don't want her to hurt either. Maybe that is selfless love...I don't really know. What I do know, is that the only thing I can do thru all of this is rely on God to give me the strength and courage to battle thru this thing.

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.
Living one day at a time;
Enjoying one moment at a time;
Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;
Taking, as He did, this sinful world
as it is, not as I would have it;
Trusting that He will make all things right
if I surrender to His Will;
That I may be reasonably happy in this life
and supremely happy with Him
Forever in the next.
Amen.

[Gordie]

I have used that term to describe my W many times. It does hurt to wait them out but it seems we have no other choice.

[SBJ]

Gordie, I agree that it hurts. It is crazy how she feels that I should be ok and friendly when she is ripping my family apart. It hurts that it seems that she feels nothing from the fact that our M and our friendship is disappearing. It hurts not to have that one person that you have talked to about anything and everything for the last 25 years not be there any more.

Everything about our situations hurt. There is no way around it. I have friends that are telling me to just get thru the D and move on, but I'm not made that way. I am the one that wants to keep my family together. I am the one that would never leave. I am the one that would never cheat. I am the one that would forgive her transgressions. I am the one that she could rely on to always be there for her. Yet, all that being said...this is out of my control.

[SBJ]

Just got off the phone with the W...kind of [censored]. Even though she was spewing about her relationship with her sister and BIL, it hurts not to be able to console her. I did my best to validate, but I'm not very good at it. She was pissed about rumors being spread about her and feel that they are coming from her sister. The rumors involve her and PA with OM. Again the W claims that it never happened, but I know that there was a EA and assumed a PA once she moved out.

How can we feel so betrayed by our spouse, yet still love them, get angry when they hurt, and still want things to work out between us?

I said at one point, "You know how I feel and what I want", and she replied that that was not possible if I still talked to her sister about our sitch. My response was that I don't speak to her about our sitch, but just common courtesy type things. They are my sons godparents and I am their daughters (my nieces) godfather. We live close and they call to check on me regularly.

The W is really upset about them...feels they are spreading rumors and also that they totally have disowned her. Again I tried to validate, but it was all I could do not to tell her to come home and we would deal with things together. I refrained from it, but man it was hard.

[Rouky]

SBJ even if it's hard you have done the right thing by standing by, validating her. Your wife has to understand that life is made of choices (good or bad depending how you see it) and she made some of them that has changed her path, so therefore it's new territory for her and she needs to realise that her taking this path has changed the dynamics.

Keep on your side of the road and carry on with your life. You got fired as her H, so unfortunately she can no longer rely on you.

[roist]

Good job on holding yourself back. Next time do so before letting her know your true feelings and what you want. Do not jump through her loops or conditions for any eventual reconciliation. She has to be the one willing and actually jumping through the hoops that you set up before that is even considered.

I know you want her back more than anything but that cannot be at any price. She needs to really change and prove her commitment before you even consider reconciliation. She needs to know that. Otherwise even if she comes back iit is doomed as she will not truly have risked losing you. You are a safe bet so she could come and go whenever she decides. You truly don't want that.

Best wishes

[SBJ]

Rouky...I am still trying to grasp the total counter-intuitive part of all of this. She was in tears while spewing about her sister today. It hurts not being there to comfort her.

My goals are to stand tall and live my life for my kids and myself for now. If she wants to re-join us down the road then she will have to make the choice to knock on the door.

[CaliGuy]

I know you want her back more than anything but that cannot be at any price. She needs to really change and prove her commitment before you even consider reconciliation. She needs to know that. Otherwise even if she comes back iit is doomed as she will not truly have risked losing you. You are a safe bet so she could come and go whenever she decides. You truly don't want that.

Wanted to echo this. Its tough in the beginning as you want/will do ANYTHING to just get them back home and try to work it out from there. I am telling you from experience do not do this. Cost me a hard long year in the process. You have to become a stronger man from this, also she has to feel the loss before she will ever start to make the changes required for a reconciliation ... if the door is wide open why would she come back knowing she can continue her actions regardless of who it hurts and how much because you are consistent in your actions/words of telling her you want her back which is allowing her to do as she wants. You will get to a point that you will actually say aloud .. here and to her .. I do not want her back with who she has become and what she is doing.

My goals are to stand tall and live my life for my kids and myself for now. If she wants to re-join us down the road then she will have to make the choice to knock on the door.

She will knock .. often... sometimes harder than others and like when we are kids she will run off and hide in the bushes once you answer just to make sure you are home, precisely where she left you.
Change your stance (this is not a goal), understand if she wants to work on the marriage you may be open to that if you see some significant change, till then you continue to stand for your M. Until then you will continue to improve despite her and her actions.

Hang in there, and maybe be less available for her to vent, she needs to miss that part of your relationship as well KWIM?

[Rose888]

I'm curious what you would do to "console" her if you were together?

One of the things I learned from my marriage crisis is that I was relying on H to make me OK emotionally and I was trying to take responsibility for his emotions and neither of those habits were bad for me, for H, and for our marriage.

Validation is the best response even in a healthy relationship.

[AndrewP]

SBJ - You did just fine and should be proud of yourself.

My own STBX started facing the rumours and talk before she moved out at which point it got a "lot" more specific I believe. In my case she never called me (about anything) and I probably wouldn't have been as compassionate as you were. She also never accused me of spreading any of the rumours although she perhaps may have thought it.

This is her journey and her choices and as much as you want to, you can't fix it for her and make it all better. I still remember one day a couple of weeks before she moved out STBX being incredibly down and I said that I wished there was something I could do to help. She turned away saying "No - It's all on me". I was so very proud of her that day.

I said at one point, "You know how I feel and what I want", and she replied that that was not possible if I still talked to her sister about our sitch. My response was that I don't speak to her about our sitch, but just common courtesy type things.

I hate to be cynical - these situations do that. I wouldn't believe that this was an offer of "if you do X then we can get back together". It was probably just her hurt.

Stay strong my friend and believe in yourself.

[SBJ]

Thanks Roist...it is hard to resist those urges to try and pull them home. I will have to keep reminding myself to stand firm. I don't think she was saying conditions for anything...but she doesn't like the fact that I still have a relationship with her sister and BIL. She feels that they are out to get her.

Cali, she had initially called to tell me about one of the kids being sick...once that was done, she then began by asking how I was and then BAM...the venting began. Before I knew it, we'd been on the phone for 30-45 minutes. Again, I just tried to validate her and only responded with "you know what I want", when she had said something similar.

I agree on the availability thing...I'm NC unless it is kid related or a financial question. It has been difficult, since for as long as I can remember, we spoke several times per day. I guess at some point, when she is alone at her place, maybe she feels the loss. But I know I cannot assume anything about what she feels.

Rose...I don't know what I mean by consoling her. I guess I just mean to be there for her if she needs a shoulder to cry on. She has never been that emotional of a person, so it never happened before. She has always had a way of compartmentalizing things and internalizing her feelings. I guess today she started opening up into some of the things that are eating at her.

[SBJ]

Thanks AP...it was an odd conversation. I agree that she wasn't making an offer. Even as much as I wish it were kind of.

[roist]

I don't think it was her negotiating her come back either, but it was a controlling condition or term she used. I just wanted to mention it early so you were aware and could notice others.

Best wishes

[SBJ]

Thanks roist...I agree. She was a totally different person yesterday. One minute we were talking about a sick kiddo and the next I was hearing her frustrations about rumors. It is scary-funny how everyone else is to blame in these situations. She was mad about all of the rumors going around, yet she is the cause and the subject of all of them.

Also some of the language she was using she would have never used before...sounded like I was talking to a sailor...haha. She was never one to use the F-word, but it was common in that spew.

I just saw something this morning that was interesting. It said...One of the hardest things you will ever do is to grieve the loss of a person who is still alive.

[Vapo]

Yep, it is amazing how their whole physical appearance changes and along with the change of behavior I caught myself wondering many a times who the [censored] this person was/is that used to me my W. Totally unrecognizable... Almost funny to watch...

[CaliGuy]

Cali, she had initially called to tell me about one of the kids being sick...once that was done, she then began by asking how I was and then BAM...the venting began. Before I knew it, we'd been on the phone for 30-45 minutes. Again, I just tried to validate her and only responded with "you know what I want", when she had said something similar.

I agree on the availability thing...I'm NC unless it is kid related or a financial question. It has been difficult, since for as long as I can remember, we spoke several times per day. I guess at some point, when she is alone at her place, maybe she feels the loss. But I know I cannot assume anything about what she feels.

SBJ

This does happen .... they will find reasons to initiate contact (Notice we would consider this pursuing on our end) and before you know it you are sucked in. Over time you will be a salty captain of this vessel and know when the bad seas are about to arrive and you can excuse yourself more gracefully.

You are getting there, its not easy but I can see the turn around in your posts. Keep working

[SBJ]

OMG...2 days in a row. I get a call from her asking if I'd received the info from my attorney. I gave my short answer to her and thought that we were about to get off of the phone. She immediately started again about how crazy her sister is and talking about some of the things that she had done to her. She also spoke about how her mother is disowning the sister as well. I might have said ten words in the entire conversation. I simply tried to validate her feelings. It is quite depressing to see that she is now so angry at that part of her family.

Cali...it is funny that she is reaching out, but the subject of the D is still in play. I think I need to realize that the D is just a piece of paper.

I didn't break her and I guess I can't fix her either. Maybe the D papers will give her some sort of peace or closure...I don't know, but it is funny how she's been out of the house for 2 1/2 months and those other issues are still there. She even said that she doesn't know why her sister is so mad at her, but that I'm not. She said I had a right to be mad at her, but that I have been kind to her when we speak. I guess my first truth dart was asking when I had ever lashed out at her with any sort of anger...her answer was the truth...never.

[Vapo]

2,5 months is pittence...

[SBJ]

Vapo I agree and after reading on here I understand that this is a long process. It's just that she is still calling me wanting to tell me what others are doing to her. It is just strange that I was the bad guy before and I was the one she blamed for everyone. Now I'm the one she is calling to vent and blame others. I don't know who is more confused...me or her!

[Vapo]

She relegated to you the Friend zone. In her warped mind she actually thinks you wile comfort her after she tells you her OM hardships... Sick!

I know my W tried to do that. I was pissed. I escaped that [censored] just in time to keep most of my sanity... But just barely...

[Sotto]

Really?? I'm your husband and you're complaining to me about your boyfriend? No W that doesn't work for me...

[job]

Please start a new thread. Thanks!

[SBJ]

Thanks job...how do I attach the thread myself?

[job]

Yes, you can do it yourself in the future. I'll take care of it for you this time.

New Thread:

She moved out, filed, but I'm still working Pt. 5