Cabin in the woods

[Surfer]

AP,

I am getting those cards to me W, S & D too. The drawers, boxes etc have also been as giving as the freezer. I also have been thinking about a drinks with a female friend. Not sure yet. It's just a drink after all, someone I used to work with. I think I will take it as a drink with a friend for now.

I have had the urge to call W about non kids related things. To say, 'I love you' or that sort. But I don't tend to now. Even though a good interaction can really make me happy, I try to get over that pretty quickly too.

I really agree with the not letting her come back until she has done the work side of things. My W will probably be so linked to wayward friends - for life. Like you I expect, I am borderline despising of them. But at times I think - whatever.

Done a couple of things to help out recently, mainly with the kids so legitimately I would. W has been very grateful. Vanilla let me into a pattern that I see in mine. I have adapted it to my sitch it goes:

Smarm & Manipulate: W tries to get what she wants - you take kids so I can spend time with WF's - before OM (that seems to have stopped - IDK). I pretend I don't know the game (alternatively I can call her out which just moves us to Defcon 1).

Keep Close for Her Benefit: More of the above but perhaps fewer lies. (W is presently in this stage)

Defcon 1: Rage. Usually brought about by stress and pressure or response on Smarm and Manipulate. If caused by stress conversation is futile, W will find a reason to enter Defcon 1. Validate or Exit.

Don;t know if you see patterns. W gave me leftover dinner/cooked by her yesterday. This is after a lot of thank yous. Conversation is a lot better etc it feels like changed. But I am not keeping any expectations and I suggest you don't either. Unless they make genuine changes that are consistent, they are unchanged.

Make changes for you to be the man you want to be. Don't reach out to her - keep it up. You are doing brilliantly. Also really admire that you have kept everyone else's knowledge to an absolute minimum.

Surfer.

[CaliGuy]

SNAP - goes the elastic.

Writing this here so that I don't send it. Yes - she undoubtedly knows this already although I worry that her guilt and fear are keeping her in her tunnel. If any of the vets are around and feel like enabling me though .....

Text message to W that I probably shouldn't send. I feel the need to reach out to her to try to get the lines of communication opening. job - please swing by with your 2X4 and give me a whack. I think I need one. The elastic doesn't always do the trick.

W - Just a reminder that if you can feel free to call or text me any time of the day or night if you want to talk or are just feeling lonely

There - it's out.

Glad you only posted this here and did not send it .... so lets take a look at this, (I will do as Ur always did to me and coat the 2x4 witha blanket)

So ... its pursing on the surface right>? ... but look deeper, its also you projecting a bit. Who knows if she is wanting to talk (to you) or if she is lonely .... this is how you most likely are feeling just start to acknowledge that, face those feelings/fears

SBJ - Thanks for the visit and input. My W is definitely not fully baked even though she's been gone for about 5 months now. Having her come home and finish baking here sounds great on the surface but I have had warnings from others who have been there before especially CaliGuy about that - still unsure on if it is a good idea or not for us. It didn't work out for him. There is (as far as I can tell) no craziness for quite some time and OM has (likely) been out of the picture for at least some weeks. I've been wrong about so very many things so very often though I tend to doubt the smell of my own farts some days. God grant me patience and grant it right now .

Here is the difference. At the time my MLCr approached me it was 15 months post BD (despite warnings I would rather have her home like you said ... truth is .. I would have been better off allowing her to continue her path ... but like Jack said .. most will tell you what you should do but they have done as you are doing), she showed remorse, committed to the M and attended the 4 or so months of the Retrouville program we had a family vaca.... for about 6 months I thought she was waking up and our M would be salvaged. Even then the vets here knew she was not baked ... I knew she was not baked ... OM was out of the picture but she was still going through the OM withdrawals and about a year later I discovered contact and held to my boundary and left.

She is still not baked ... well not that I can tell because honestly I stopped watching that bot of water looking for boil bubbles. She has to do her journey on her own .... if she decides to try to salvage the M, the relationship with me I will cross that bridge when/if it happens.

If you read all of AMyC's posts (I have several times .. along with other MLCr women the trends are very similar .. I have had personal discussions with a woman MLCr like Amy, discovered she went through her own MLC only after landing on a forum like this trying to figure out what was going on with her husband .... seems broken people find broken people. Anyways .... like AMyC's story, its not just a few months ... it takes time, far to much time. I was warned not to trust much till 3 years post BD ... I just knew my story would be different .. it wasn't.


The lesson I learned ... and hope to pass on. Every MLCr is different but the same. The one thing is it takes TIME, how long?? .. .who knows .. there is no guarantee they ever wake up ... but if its true MLC its not within 6 months, not that I have seen in all I have read and I assure you though I am no expert I have read enough looking for the magic bullet that does not exist to know.

I am not trying to take the wind out of your sails, its just a long process not many have the stomach for .... seems us fellas are more guilty of this than the ladies. Some of the things that happen with MLC are very hard to accept.

So ... while we are given all this time, the best thing we can do for ourselves, our family, spouse/next partner or whoever .... is improve, become better in spite of this, allow this to make us stronger than we ever knew we could be.

When my MLCr came back .. bottom line regardless of where she was in the tunnel/baking process ... I was not strong enough to handle it. Retrospect I needed to be strong enough and I wasn't ... would it have saved her .. no. But I would not have had a 6 month set back in my journey and that's how I look at it.

[Altair]

I'm going to decorate my 2x4 with some tinsel and a few bows.
Do not text her!

It seems like you are applying your logic to the situation, which is a bad idea. For example, you think she is not happy because she lives in a crappy apartment and seems to be lonely.

You can't make the jump that she would come back because you have a nice home and warm cookies waiting for her!

I am guilty of this thinking too. For me, it's like H, look at our lovely life that you left. And you'd rather wallow in your crappy noisy apartment than be here with me. Well, it turns out yes he would. As painful as it is to hear, the MLCers don't want to be with us now, maybe never. there's no point to offer your company- she doesn't want it right now! And, as in the AmyC case it probably feels smothering and horrible.

Just because we know our spouses are alone, not happy, suffering, does not mean they want to see us. It svcks but it is true. As Job would say (and she will)...just leave her be.

[MoveFrwd]

She is still not baked ... well not that I can tell because honestly I stopped watching that pot of water looking for boil bubbles.

Pulling this out for emphasis.

This is what I wish for you.

[Coly23]

Snapping that elastic band right along with you AP!

You did good to post your text here first. I hope by doing that and with the helpful comments it has helped to bring you down from the ceiling.

I might take on Atair's idea and decorate my elastic band with tinsel to get into the festive spirit!

[job]

Andrew,

I'm very glad you didn't post that message to your wife. I'm not going to sugar coat my message to you...don't do it! If you send that, it will only make her more determined to stay away because it is more of the same...pursuing. Your wife already knows that you would do back flips if she came home. She knows that you want her back and she also knows that you are sitting there watching the paint harden, just thinking about her and looking for excuses to contact her. This is the hardest thing in the beginning, i.e., the no contact unless it is an absolute emergency.

Your journey has only just begun and you aren't that far along when it comes to the MLC time table. It takes a lot of time and space for them to heal and yes, to miss you and what you had. You don't want to come off as pursuing or looking needy...so find something to do and leave her alone for now. If and when she's ready, she'll contact you...but you need to leave well enough alone for now.

As for the cards and well wishes, people don't know the situation and the less they know for now, the better. Just put the cards away and know that things will get better for you as you continue your own journey. I know you desperately want her home, but believe me, you don't want her back if she's not fully baked. They can create a lot of heartache when they aren't baked up. If you need to be reminded of this, got to LouR's thread and see what happened in her situation.

You do not want her back unless she's fully baked and ready to do the hard, necessary work of healing and being a partner to you 100%.

Continue moving forward and keep the focus on you.

[AndrewP]

Thank you everyone for taking the time to visit and the kind words. It never ceases to amaze me how the troops can gather around here. Just to be clear - I wasn't asking her to come home, just to call me and start the communication. I now am firmly in the camp that there will be no miracle with her suddenly standing on my doorstep with tears in her eyes begging to come home. Reconnecting will take time but has to start somewhere with talking at the least. - I was just trying to nudge it along.

I think that those of us with "vanisher" MLCers such as myself, Coly23 and Altair are jealous of the contact that you others get - as painful as that contact may be. I was looking at this message as trying to open up the lines of communication - perhaps a bit more forcefully than is recommended. She does know where I live, she knows of at least 4 different ways to contact me, she knows that I love her, she knows that I have not abandoned her, she knows (probably) that I would accept her back and forgive her. She also knows (I believe) that I am getting very tired of waiting and am living as if she's never coming back.

Sotto - Yes - indeed I "worry" about OM coming back. A depressed person could very well reach out and cling to someone who has given them happiness and comfort. Silly of me perhaps to jump around waving my arms saying "pick me" "pick me"! My life has indeed been pretty good lately and I do feel mostly complete in myself. Until "coffee date" I think I only reached out to D24 with a "feeling the lonely - hug please" once in the couple of months preceding (she's great about sending those right back digitally - no questions asked). My actual "Plan A" as of about 3 months ago was for her and OM to marry, get me off the hook in any settlement and allow me to walk into the sunset, head held high. What I may have written here may have sounded somewhat different but that was indeed where my head was actually at.

Surfer - With my narrow window it's hard to see patterns and I also have a built in doubt about anything that I do see. I don't know if vanisher MLCers cook up differently than your sort. You've certainly had a tough going of it. With the kids moved out and being alone it has allowed me to work on myself perhaps more continuously than if there had been kids and contact involved. I'm pretty impressed with your own stamina and fortitude. Your W may change directions again. I believe that many of my W's enabling friends have been shed or fled. None of whom were wayward themselves. They just encouraged from the safety of their own relationships - no skin in the game.

CaliGuy - I really appreciate the blanket coating. You've got a nice touch. I still feel the concussions from non-cushioned whacks which have made me skittish. You are exactly right - my motivation is probably more around me being lonely and hopeful than anything else. Definitely projecting my feelings on an absent W and wanting to shove things along. I've certainly not read everything that AmyC posted - she was quite the monumental figure here in her day - I'm glad she's doing well. One thing that I try not to do but do anyway is the whole "timeline" thing. I continue to be surprised as is everyone around me that I am still standing and TBH if she hadn't contacted me when she did I probably wouldn't be by early next year. How much longer can I hold out? I really don't know. I was at the end of my rope recently until this contact and possible change in her situation had me grip it again.

darknes - I know - Thanks for the more gentle tap this time. It's a tough balance and perhaps a fine line between moving forward / moving on. I struggle with that and as you know, knowing that my W is out there hanging on to her end of the rope is what keeps me standing. Perhaps not the healthiest of motivations from where you sit, but it's what works for me right now and has for a while. If she did completely vanish / disconnect I'd probably wander off aimlessly through the woods for a short while and then go looking for someone else.

Altair / Coly23 - Thank you so much for the visit and the festive decorations. I didn't expect either of you by. Altair - yes - my tiny "job on the shoulder" did indeed say a variation of "leave her be". Second or third guessing is second nature to us. Are we doing the "right" thing for ourselves, are we doing the "right" thing for reconnecting with our spouses, this "feels right" should I do it ... and then the spinning goes. At least I got this out. The response has been rather overwhelming. I will snap that elastic some more and at least pretend to not be waiting for her to call. Perhaps I can make that the reality.

[Westo]

I echo what everyone else has said.........no sending that text!

Just leave her be Andrew. I can honestly say that if and when H wants to come back, for me, I will have to know deep in my heart he wants to and is truly sorry.

And.........the R with OW will have to had been well and truly over for a long time, both in his heart and head.

Nothing less will do. If she wants you, she knows where you are and she also knows you love her.

It's an awful time of the year, but we will get thorough it. I don't know what next year will bring, but I'll be glad to see the back of this one.

[AndrewP]

Westo - I couldn't agree more. Facebook has this "highlights of 2016 video" thing that I keep getting prompted to run and that many of my FB friends have done. I really don't want to think about 2016 at all - I never in my wildest dreams could have imagined what this year has been. Even though BD was in March the A started (I believe) in January and there was a lot of stress and tension around the house.

job - I hadn't read your post when I pressed submit on mine so I'm not ignoring you <smile>. I do indeed recall LouR's sitch and how it turned out for her. CaliGuy's 3 years after BD before they come home timeline is plain just depressing. I hope I misread that but I really feel like throwing the towel in whenever I think of that. I've been at this for the better part of a year already with W's MLC probably hitting it's stride almost exactly 3 years ago which at the time I put down to empty nest and menopause and the stress of her nearly losing both her parents within days of each other (they got better - but it was life-changing). W's affair was a symptom of her replay at that time I believe, not the beginning of the whole crisis. Starting out I would have thought I could have lasted no more than a couple of months and well, that was quite some time ago from my own perspective.

I had dinner last night with a good friend who was actively pushing me yet again to file and find someone else. I hear this all around me. Please - no "you're not ready" commentary. I've heard that already and I'm not here looking for dating advice - I'm here to save/rebuild my marriage. When we were most of the way through dinner I pressed to find out how he was doing. I felt horrible because he himself was struggling with a number of issues and here we had devoted so much time to me.

Good thing I'm alone - I'm breaking down all over again with despair. I just want to be loved - is that too much to ask of the world? If someone has something hopeful or positive to write that doesn't say GAL, join a gardening club or any other platitudes it would be very welcome today.

On the one hand I know that most of the people who end up here never do reconcile and that most of them have given up on that long before the amount of time that I've put in already, especially the men. And if you consider that the people that end up here are probably already more committed to saving their marriage than the larger majority that don't come here it makes me wonder if I am some sort of crazy myself. I do believe in my heart that I am W's ONE best option even if she doesn't see it. I also believe in my heart that if I am patient that she will indeed turn back to me and make our family whole again. Perhaps it is arrogance, perhaps it is a delusion. To many who are reading, I may still look relatively young nearing 53 years old. Am I to wait until I am 70 before I can be happy again?

I'm doing my level best to "be the lighthouse" as we are taught and it's something that I think I'm pretty darned good at because that's naturally who I am. I can intellectually understand the requirement for the lighthouse to stay put and not go running all along the shore looking for people to save. I know that it's not the stated philosophy of this board but doesn't "loving them home" mean shining a light of peace and safety? I am also regularly told on my thread that as long as W believes that this place exists that she's going to stay off in Fairy Princess Land if by that you mean sitting alone in her apartment with no friends, afraid to go out and horrified that people will find out what she's done. Yes - perhaps that's mind-reading but the evidence backs it up.

Well - enough of this. I'm sitting here in my home office with a cat sleeping at my side and hearing on the radio that the snow squalls that I see outside my window are closing down roads and events all over the area. A good night to nest up with a good book and some comfort food I think. If the power goes out I have all the usual emergency supplies. There's something comforting about being safe and secure while the storms rage all around. I hope that this post doesn't bring out the crowds who try to "fix" me often demanding that I become an idealized manly man - Clark Gable's Rhett Butler is sometimes used as an example. I don't like Rhett and his character describes himself as a broken person not fit for a normal relationship. Perhaps that sort of person is attractive to a certain sort of woman but I really don't want Scarlet in my life.

[CaliGuy]

Andrew ... thing is ... its all out of our control right? That was the first hard brutal lesson I had to learn, I am a guys guy ... I run a company, I worked my way up to this position but I also hold true to my roots ... I have a Snap-on tool box IN .. yes IN my office that has a nice view. Why is that massive tool box there? I use it as a reminder, people come in and see its totally out of place in an office but it sends the message I have done it ... fixed it and know BS when I hear it ..... For me its a brutal reminder no matter how big/nice/stocked my tool box is I could never fix her or the marriage.

Often times here people get stuck on timelines ... again raising my hand .. GUILTY... MLC takes as long as it takes, the LBS journey too takes as long as it takes ... some take to DBing and doing it by the book with ease, others kick and scream the entire way but eventually start seeing the lessons and results do pay off over TIME. I recall telling myself .. if she isnt back by June I am done ... ok ok .. November, well lets get through the year .... then I realized she will be done when she is done. The true tragedy is if the crisis ruins more than just one life, I had a kid to worry about ... then over time I started to realize I was important too. I had to save me.

You are still early in the phases, but do try to start looking inward at things you can improve on .. when you decide to drop rope and move on is actually the one thing in your control and you will know when/if that time comes. That in itslef is empowering and should give you a sense of having some kind of control in all this. Its been said here often .. I may give up, but not today. This is your choice.